Hello, my name's Santasha Nabananga Bamblet. I'm a proud yr the Order KERNI Whoalbury and a waddery woman. And before we get started on She's on the Money podcast, I would like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land of which this podcast is recorded on a wondery country, acknowledging the elders, the ancestors and the next generation coming through.
As this podcast is about connecting, empowering, knowledge sharing and the storytelling of you to make a difference for today and lasting impact for tomorrow.
Let's get into it.
She's on the Money.
She's on the Money.
Hello, and welcome to She's on the the podcast for the millennials who want financial freedom. I am super excited about our guests for this week and I know you guys are going to be two as she was highly requested.
Honestly, you were the most requested one. Don't tell anybody else. Tory Dunlap is a money expert.
She is the CEO and founder of her First one hundred K, a New York Times best selling author for her book Financial Feminist, host of the number one podcast for women in the US, Financial feminist, and because she hasn't done enough, was named a.
Forbes thirty Under thirty.
Tory has centered her career around her passion for women.
Taking control of their finances.
She wants to break down the stigma around men overseeing finances in a household and empower women to master their money and build a life.
That they love. Tory, Hi, welcome to She's on the Money.
Thank you for having me excited. How did it be here?
I am also so excited to have you. Like we were just talking off air, like your technically Victoria. I'm technically Victoria. My nickname is Tory. Your nickname is Tory. My team were actually laughing because like I also have a podcast, You have a podcast.
I wrote a book. You wrote it.
You're the cooler version of me. You're the Australian horder cooler version of me.
No, no, no, if like that doesn't even count.
But like I'm like the small fish Australian version, and I'm always like, holy.
Great, oh Torri, dum laugh. I'm so excited for this.
No, I have heard so many amazing things about your show. Folks who listen to financial feminists also listened to Shoes on the money and vice versa. So I'm just really excited to be here.
So me too.
We had like a podcast deep dive with a team from iHeart a little while ago, and they did this thing called like podcast Neighborhoods, and they like show you where your listeners live, like not physically, but like in other podcast land and yours and mine had.
A really beautiful intersect. But when I put it out.
To the community, I was like, I'm going to the US. Who do you want me to get into touch with? Who do you want me to interview? And I shouldn't have even bothered asking because ninety percent of the answers were like, Tori done that her first one hundred K, the girl who does financial feminist, And I was like, they're all the same person.
Guys have some diversity.
But to say my community are obsessed with you as an understatement, So for those of you who maybe haven't heard of her first one hundred k, why did you start it?
Tell me about you? Who are you, what do you do? Why do you do it? My friend?
Sure? So I graduated college in twenty sixteen and I was, you know, majored in marketing and theater, and the plan was to work my way up the corporate ladder as a social media marketer. I was gonna stop the pavement and have a cute little briefcase and wear a pencil skirt. And that's how I know it's a fantasy, is I've never worn a pencil skirt in my.
Life, and they're so uncomfortable. As someone who has, you don't want this, Oh they're terrible.
Yeah, And that was the image I had for myself, as I think a lot of women in their twenties do. It's it's like, I'm going to take on the world, take on this city. And then I got into my first corporate job and was like, no, this is awful. I don't want to do this. I don't want to make some straight white man. I don't respect who's already rich, even richer. I don't want to have to sit at a desk, even if my work's already done. And it was just like the rose colored goggles came off really quick.
Of course, we know in the United States that not soon after I graduated college, we had a presidential election that did not go I think as a lot of us expected it to go. So I'm twenty two and I'm coming into adulthood or really into womanhood in a very different country than I expect, and I'm starting to ask myself the kind of questions like, yeah, what kind of person are you? What do you stand for? And honestly,
the election of Donald Trump kind of radicalized me. And I was the friend all of my friends were coming to for financial advice and guidance. I had a really good financial education for my parents, and I just thought that was normal because I didn't know anything different. I thought everybody knows not to overspend on credit cards, everybody knows how to save money, everybody knows how to navigate
this financial system. And of course I realized very quickly that that wasn't the case, especially wasn't the case for women. So I'm running this nine to five job in marketing, and then I start a blog in twenty sixteen on the side that later becomes her first hundred K. I'm
talking about money, educating women about money. I start doing financial coaching, and then in twenty nineteen, based on the name though, you know, her first hundred K was my own hundred K journey, me attempting to save one hundred thousand dollars at age twenty five. I successfully achieved that goal about four years ago, almost to the day, went
to Europe to celebrate. I got the call for Good Morning America to be on one of two very very big, sexy like morning shows that are just like career making. So got the call for GMA at a pub in London, run Blue Home, did the interview, quit my job three weeks later and have never looked back. And you did the kind intro and bio of me. But we're now a community of over four million people. We have a podcast, we have a book. We fight the patriarchy by making
women rich. We have a team of fifteen people.
Fifteen people.
It's crazy and it's just my life's work. That's what I believe I was put on this earth to do is educate women about money, but also talk about how money affects women differently. Because the truth is is like I don't think we have any sort of equality for any marginalized group until we have financial equality. And in addition, a financial education in a capitalist, disenfranchised system, that is your best form of protest is understanding money, having financial standing,
a financial foundation. That is the way we get ahead as women. If you're a person of color, if you're a member of the LGBTQ community, if you're disabled, like if you're a member of a marginalized group, having money means having choices, It means having freedom, and it means that you get to show up in a disenfranchised system as the fullest version of yourself and the fullest version in your community. So that's what I believe I was put on this earth to do is fight for women's financial rights.
And the way you talk about it, I am a thousand percent convinced you're not one person ever is going to doubt that you are obviously insanely impressive. But one question I really like asking people when I talk to them, especially if I, you know, really admire what they.
Do, is are you proud of what you do?
Like?
Have you had time to sit down and be like, damn, girl, I did that? Like are you what does that look like?
I love that question. I will be honest with you, and I imagine you feel very similar. It's always like what's next, Like it's like, Okay, a cool I did that, And then you know, I take maybe like an evening or sometimes even a couple days, so like celebrate it. But then I'm always like what's next, which I feel like is not the healthiest thing to do.
No, but I can completely resonate with that, like I've got stuff to do.
Yeah, Like we got the New York Times, which like I worked so hard for and our team works so hard for. Like I don't think I've ever pushed myself harder to get anything, and then I did it and I felt so good. But like, your life doesn't change necessarily, Like yes, you get to say like I'm a New York Times bestseller, and like that is something I get to say for the rest of my life. And like, in theory, it increases book sales, but like my mom literally called me and she was like, so, like what
does that mean? And I'm like, I get a sticker on the book, and like I get this like really big accomplishment, But it doesn't like guarantee like you know, more money or more opportunities. It's just kind of like you have to find fulfillment for yourself. And I've learned over the past couple of years, especially as like my goalpost of success kept moving that I was like, Oh, unless I sit and be excited about all of this, it's never going to feel like enough. That was a
really philosophical answer. I love very easy question, but yes, I feel very accomplished. I feel very accomplished of our team. And most of all, as cheesy as it sounds like, we get messages now probably every five minutes from a woman somewhere that is, you know, I paid off my credit card debt, I negotiated a twenty percent raise. I just have my first one thousand dollars in my emergency fund.
You know the best part of it is it's always a comma, and then after it's and I feel so much more confident in every aspect of my life now, And like, that's the feeling I want for every single woman.
I want her to show up as her fullest version of herself in any space, in any relationship, in any format, because she doesn't have to say yes if she doesn't want to say yes, and she doesn't have to say no if she doesn't want to say no. And she also can show up bigger in every aspect of her life knowing that she's financially taken care of.
I'm so excited about that, like exactly the same, And I feel like you and I are very on the same page. When it comes to that, because in this space, like you might do really cool things. And you said your mum called you and said, what does that mean. One of my family members called me and said, I didn't realize you was so rich. When I got named one of the Forbes thirty under thirty, because like they didn't know enough about Forbes and they thought that I was on the reach list, and I was.
Like, I wish I was on the racial list.
Because obviously Forbes is quite American and in Australia it's not as big. So when I got named on that, I was like, the this is a slave for me, but like, I'm really sorry. It does not mean I am a trillionaire. So sorry, but I really resonate with that. And I think that in our space one of the reasons why that happens is there.
Is still more work to do. There are still.
More women that aren't financially literate and deserve to be. And I think you can't just look at one thing and be like, oh, well I've made it. Well we haven't, because like I would love to think and I'm sure you're very similar, Like my job will be done when I am redundant, and people like Victoria, why are you talking about financial literacy? We all have financial literacy.
That is so dumb. Like I would love people to.
Think that my job wasn't necessary, and I just think it is so necessary because there are still people that need help. And as you said before, all of those communities that slip through the cracks, they need the voice.
That you have, and you do it so well. Do you cry a lot when you get those messages, because like I can't deal with them.
It's very very kind. We got one, hmm, it's probably about two months ago. Now we get so frequently. It's just so kind. This one really hit me though. It was like I am eighteen. I was houseless. It was not even thinking about college for the first time. I like have a roof over my head. I have like something to live for, Like I can't even get through without like getting a little choked out, but like I
have something to live for now. And I was just like okay, like it was wolf, like, wow, I love it. That's why you do it. That one was especially just like hit me where it hurts. But yeah, it's like
what I researched over and over for my book. And I actually just got off another interview where we talked about this is it's like there's so many aspects of our world, like money aside, finance aside, that are just so committed to women depriving themselves, depleting themselves, being the like skeleton version of themselves in order for other people
to be comfortable. And I both mean that in an altruistic way of like we sacrifice so much so that other people can have it, but also like in the more manipulative way, like women are shrinking or made to be small so that the patriarchy can stand. And I want a world where every single person, but especially every single woman, has joy and pleasure and ease and stability and safety. And that's what money can buy you. I say this in my book, But like there's this narrative
that money can't buy you happiness. Like money can buy you happiness. It can buy you all of those things. It can buy you safety and a clean, safe apartment and a good car that isn't going to break down on you, and a vacation to recharge and escape from a job that deprives you, like money can buy you happiness. And these narratives exist to make you believe that you are not worthy of all of the beautiful things in life,
all of the beautiful, joyful things. And in addition, when you are stable and safe and content, you get to then change the status quo and the narrative for everybody else. This whole world exists in this patriarchal, capitalist way to deprive ourselves of any joy or again like limit the fullest versions of ourselves to make other people comfortable, to
fit into society's version of ourselves. And these messages are the coolest thing for me because again it shows It's like when you get your financial shit together, everything else opens up for you.
And that's what's most exciting because I look at you, know you are massive on TikTok adore like the fact that you show up so consistently like girl, that is a fait in itself, Like I cannot. I am so envious. When I look at your content, I'm like this woman, she is committed.
Oh it's exhausting, but that's a whole other conversation.
Oh, I can imagine. I do like one TikTok a month, and I'm like over and out, babes bye.
But what you do so well is advocate for women but also teach women to advocate for themselves. And there's a quote that I love and I say.
All the time in my community. In my community is so bored of me saying it.
But like a rising kidlifts soulships and you do this so well. And I feel like for the longest time, media committle aged white men have had their audacity, and their audacity is meant that we don't have a voice, and we don't have a place. And when we finally realize that we.
Probably should, we don't know how to advocate for ourselves or stand up or even stand up for those around us. Where do we start? What do we do?
I think in terms of just personal finance in general, there's a reason I laid my book out like this. The first chapter my book, Financial Feminists, is about the emotions of money, because a lot of our colleagues literally just start with, like what's the budgeting method? Or like learn how to set financial goals, and like those things are helpful, but they can't happen until you do some
emotional unpacking, like money is not about math. I wish more people understood this, because again, my not so conspiracy conspiracy theory is that women have been told that money is about math. But we were also told, at least in the United States, growing up as women, that like girls were bad at math and that boys were good at math.
Oh, of course women are the worst at math according to our education system as well.
Right, So I think that's mostly a narrative that we're told. And then we're also told that personal finance is about like Excel spreadsheets and mathematical equations, and it's actually not. It's about your emotions, it's about your psychology, it's about how you feel. If you can understand what your brain and body do before you make a purchase, if you can understand what your brain and body do before making some sort of financial decision, you can start to unpack
a lot of how to be better with money. But only when you start to figure out this is my mindset around money, This is what I've been believing about money, just like we were talking about before. One of the narratives I talk about in the first chapter is it's like you've been told that money can't buy you happiness. You've also been told that you shouldn't talk about money. Why have you been told you shouldn't talk about money to keep you underpaid and overworked. Like that's it. That's
why we don't talk about money. We are more likely statistically to talk about sex, death, politics, religion, any other uncomfortable topic before we'll talk about money. And the reason behind all of that is it's rooted in shame. It's rooted in shame, it's rooted in fear, it's rooted in anxiety, it's in judgment as opposed to, like I was saying before, the joy and the stability and the ease and the safety.
So the first thing you really have to do is you have to start understanding what narratives am I believing about money? What narratives am I believing about the word rich? What narratives am I believing about my ability to make money or my ability to manage my money on my own? And the exercise I give in the book is to think about the first money memory you have. What is the first time you remember thinking about money? For me,
I was a theater kid, right. I was saving my quarters in an Altoid's tin to like go see Annie the Musical because my mom taught me if I wanted to go, I needed to save my money.
That's also such a wholesome musical to want to see.
It's so oh I loved Annie. That was my dream was so like being Annie someday.
So the altoids tan. It got filled, Yes, it got filled.
But here's the deal. It was quarters and pennies and the ticket probably cost twenty five bucks and I did not have that. My parents were gonna pay the whole time. Like I was five, I had no like earned income source. But I saved my money because I wanted it right, And so I was being taught by my parents, if you want something, you have to say for it, and like,
that's how this goes. When I ask people what their first money memory is, and I would love to hear yours, most of them are not as positive, right it is I showed up at school and realized I didn't have enough money for school lunch, or I saw my parents fight about money, or my first money memory was realizing we just didn't have any of it. And what sort of beliefs then did you start to build around money based on how your parents manage money, based on the
behaviors and the outlook of your childhood growing up? Right? I had another person who told me, oh, well, you know, we would go over to my friend's house and they were really really rich, but they were terrible people, and so I thought, rich people are terrible people, like people who have money are bad people, Like money makes you a bad person. So that's the start. And it's really mess right, like feels like therapy like it's.
It does, and it's overwhelming because it means admitting something about yourself.
We talk about it all the time in our community.
When I started my podcast, I literally started it because I had a Facebook group and I really wanted the information out there because people, as you know, they always start with the.
First same few questions.
And I was like, you know what, if I just do twelve recordings, I will have mastered it, Tori, I would have done it, Like that's all I'll ever need. Five hundred episodes later, I'm like still being.
Like, I still have more shit to talk about.
But my first episode was called money Stories, and you need to understand where you came from and what your money story is, what you think, you feel, you act, you behave around money, because that wasn't your fault.
Like you grew up around money with these preconceived ideas of how they worked and what they looked like because that's what was ingrained in you, and the second you realize that, that defines your current thought pattern. But the beautiful thing about money stories is you can create your own from here, like we can change it, we can do whatever we want to do. Like that's my favorite thing.
And when I think about money, I had the very beautiful experience of having a dad who was an accountant.
He loved telling us about money and budgeting and what that meant. But also I was really bad with money because sometimes even with the best support around you, you're not ready to hear it. Do you think I wanted my accountant dad to run my first job? I was like, why are you telling me?
Dad?
To save ten percent of my income always?
And then it'll compound over time. Ill, don't you realize I have to go to the movies?
Like, are you not understanding that after school at four o'clock, the girls from my school are going to go to McDonald's. They're going to get some ice cream, then they're going to walk to the movies. I need to be involved in that, don't you understand?
So I feel like it's such a cool thing to be able to reflect on it. But I think that so many people they judge themselves and then define themselves by what they thought a money belief and behavior was, when in reality, like, if you have limiting beliefs about money, we can fix them. But if you have them and you hold on to them, we can't actually create the life you deserve, Like, you deserve so much more, like and I feel like I just always want to scoop up my community and be like, you.
Deserve so much more, and I want to give it to you. But first you've got to take the first step, Like I can't pull your head out of the sand for you. You've got to do it. How do we pull our heads out of the sand? What do we do? Like, you know, what's the first step for standing up and being like, no, actually, Tory, you're right, I do deserve more. How do we do that?
Because I don't have or I do, let's be honest, And I think you've got it too. I definitely have the audacity of a mediocre, middle aged white man. And when I step into your shoes they fit really well and keep doing it.
But how does everybody else do that? When that is really scary.
It's really funny, you say, pull your head out of the sand. Because after chapter one, chapter two is what I call the Ostrich effects, which is your head in the sand, acting your problems don't exist.
What is that a thing to ostridches bury their heads in this We don't have ostridges.
Actually they don't. That's a whole other thing. But they were believed too, which is why we call it the Ostrich effect. I actually do start I think chapter two with facts about ostriches. I literally I'm like, Hi, before we get into the rest of this chapter, we're gonna talk about ostriches have two stomachs. Do you know that? No, I didn't, something I learned researching my book. You think it's a finance book. Not it's Ostrich.
I'm here for it. I love animals and money. You was selling me on this.
But yeah, actually, that's a whole other thing, because I actually did google because I was curious, do ostrich just bury their head in the sand, And there was like this whole like academic article where it's like, for many many years I would believe to have buried the head them, but that they actually don't. Anyway, So they call it the Ostrich effect, at least in the United States. With personal finance. It's like bury head in the sand, acting your problems
don't exist. The good thing about that it temporarily feels good because you're just like I will handle that later. Investing too complicated, I'll learn it later. Paint off my debt too foolish, shame and fear, and I don't want to log into my debt, so we'll do that later. We see this especially again in television shows. I mentioned this also in my book of like Nick from New Girl he has a you know, box of bills in
his closet. Andy in April from Parks and Recreation have all of their bills frozen in a freezer like this is a very common trope because I think a lot of people deal with this. So the Ostrich effect totally normal, because again, the narrative that you've been taught is shame shame about your money. You should feel ashamed of your past choices, you should feel ashamed that you don't know more about money. And so rather than make a decision that might be wrong, we're going to make no decision
at all. And I see this so many times with women. Is we get in this analysis paralysis. We feel like we need to make the perfect choice. So we either spend years researching because it gives us the feeling of doing.
Something, we're taking steps right.
It's like I just need to google this one more thing, and then when I've done that, I will make the decision. But then suddenly you're three hours into a Google rabbit hole. So the analysis paralysis is real. And then also again just the shame. So the first thing we have to do to actually like start doing actionable things about our money is get comfortable being uncomfortable. And again, this is
not about math. It's about your emotions. It's about releasing any shame in judgment and saying, you know what, I'm going to look at this like I'm an anthropologist in my own life. Oh interesting, I bought that pair of shoes I didn't need and didn't want because I had a terrible day at work. Interesting. That's it. You are just observing your behavior and observing what's going on without any sort of emotion loaded into it. No judgment, no shame,
no fear, no anxiety. Same thing with your debt. You're literally gonna start totaling your accounts. Where does the debt live, what is the interest rate? How much debt do I have. You can do this for all of your credit cards, your student loans, your mortgage if you have one. That's a whole other conversation. I don't know how it is in Australia. You can't buy a house here.
Oh no, you can't buy a house here. I did a presentation the other day, Tory. You would have heard of the like avocado fallacy right where, like.
Yeah, the avocado test.
Oh yeah, if you buy less avocado toast, you're gonna be able to afford a house. And I did this like presentation at a university about like the property market, and I was like, sit down, let's go back to nineteen seventy five. In nineteen seventy five, you.
Could buy a house and it was worth four times your annual income. Today in Australia, to buy a house it is twenty seven times your annual income. If our incomes had kept up with inflation in Australia, your average Australian income would be one hundred and sixty two thousand dollars. But it is not, my friend, the average Australian income is sixty five thousand dollars.
And you'all out here is thinking that we can buy property.
We can't buy property because the economy is cooked.
So the biggest thing is like starting to get comfortab being uncomfortable of listing out your debt, listing out if you do have savings, where does that live, and then you can start making a plan. We can't make a plan till we know the lay of the land. Yes I'm a poet, didn't even know it. But like we can't start putting a budget together, we can't start setting goals until we've worked through our emotions number one and started to understand that and started to understand the narratives
we've been believing about money. And then two, we have to understand what is our current financial picture, even if it's messy, even if it's really anxiety inducing, because you can't start making steps forward until you know what's going on. So listing out your debts, listing out your accounts, listening out your interest rates. If you don't know your interest rates,
that's a great place to start start calling people. Look at your terms and conditions, Like, you have to understand how all of this works before we can then start making decisions about it.
I agree, I just feel like that's the most empowering thing you can do. And the second you start doing that, you get really inquisitive and you start looking at things and you start talking to your girlfriends, like you might be talking to your girlfriends or work about it and you're like, oh, this is interesting, and you're right. It's picking up that piece and going no judgment, no shame, no anything, just going, well, that's interesting.
Actually that really helps me to understand a little bit more about me. And like, you're the best person to understand the most about you, and you deserve to know about you, So let's keep doing that.
I feel like it's the same and like everybody, even people like you, have probably gone through that.
We're like far out.
I didn't realize I made that money decision because of this emotion or this outcome or how that works. And I think that by just talking about it, even just consuming content online, that's more relative. Like you don't have to go straight out and start talking about your income to people if that makes you uncomfortable, like start small, but start stepping in the right direction, because money shouldn't
be something that we feel ashamed to talk about. I look at not just your content, but content of American creators and I'm always in awe because I'm always like, oh my gosh, the confidence they have, like and the way that they often support each other is so crazy cool. And in Australia we have this thing called tall Poppy syndrome where you know, the second someone's really successful, they feel like, Okay, now we're going to cut you down.
Like it's as though in Australia and I'm going to get in trouble for saying this, but I also don't really care.
It's almost like.
People want you to do well, but they never want you to do better than them, And the second that you look like you're doing better than them, well, it's time to rip them to shreds now. I have seen it time and time again in comment sections of people being like, what would you know? How do you do this? What does that look like? How do you, as a woman in a country like the USA deal with this? Because I feel like your political system, your you know
everything system is working so hard against your success. How does tall Poppy syndrome affect you? How are you overcoming that? How do we seek inspiration? And from that it's like women supporting women, But then it's like the government against the women.
How do you deal with this? How do you still not go to sleep every night and cry?
Y'all can't see me, but I'm literally like my neck is breaking from just like nodding my head emphatically. So many things here. First, like we were talking about before society is built so that women hate themselves.
I mean that makes a lot of people a lot of money. So like this story checks out, we.
Want to talk about just like the diet industry is a multi billion dollar industry that's.
A women's roman empire. I'm convinced, oh totally, and is selling you on a complete myth.
Diets don't work. We know this. Ninety eight ninety nine percent of diets don't work because the more you tell me I can't have fried chicken, the more I want fried chicken. Like that doesn't work. And deprivation does not work. Like it's not about willpower, it's not about like how badly you want it, it's literal psychology. It does not work. And that's the perfect example of where sold this lie that you need to be as thin as possible, you need to take up the least amount of space possible
and hate yourself doing it. Cut out everything that brings you joy, cut out anything that makes you happy and deprive yourself in order to get this thing that you think you really want, but you don't want it. You've just been told you should want it. Perfect example of what's going on with every single industry, with every single space is when you show up as the fullest version of yourself, inevitably what happens is the patriarchy feels threatened
by you. Again, I'm gonna sound like a broken record. I talk about this in my book even in Childhood, like if we bring it really really far back. I did a lot of research around the sort of narratives or sort of like child rearing that we do. And I'm going to use the gender binary here for ease. But like four boys and four girls. Boys and even the toys they are given are taught self reliance. They're taught innovation, They're taught how to build right like Legos truck.
These are what we give boys. We are telling them that their value to society is and how they're contributing in terms of their brains. Right, they're smart, they're again self actualized. How can you show up again? It's the biggest version of yourself and that's what we're teaching boys. What do we give girls?
We give them toy ironing boards.
We give them dolls, we give them bridal veils, we give them playhouses. Right, this is not me trying to cancel Barbie. I love the Barbie movie.
No, no, we love Barbie.
But we want Barbie and the blocks so we can build the Barbie dreamhouse ourselves.
Like, we're not canceling Barbie.
Those things are fine, but stop telling me that I have to play house in a house that's already made, because there's no possible way I could have built that myself.
We give a two year old girl another child to take care of, That's gross. We are telling girls that their value is in how much they give of themselves. How altruistic are you? How much are you sacrificing yourself to care for other people? Now? I am really beautifully glad that women are taught selflessness. I am not mad about that. I think that's a beautiful trait. But the issue is that we're not teaching boys the same thing.
So what happens as we age, what happens as we grow up and we start becoming more financially confident, we start showing up as the fullest version of ourselves. We start talking about accomplishments, we start progressing in our careers and in our relationships and in our money. Our altruism gets weaponized. There's a weaponization of the altruism that is taught to us because you're no longer controllable when you have money, when you have agency, when you have stability,
you're no longer controllable. And the patriarchy panics. They go, We're not gonna be able to control her anymore. We're going to cut her down. We're going to tell her, actually, you bragging about your accomplishments is really tacky. We're going to tell her that, m you know what, I don't know how much you spent on that, but that feels like a waste of your money and it could have gone to these other things that I'm deeming are a
better use from a random person on the internet. Right, the patriarchy tells you that your altruism is the number one priority. Now this isn't pours your money and be selfish. I want to be so clear.
Oh no, absolutely not, None of that is true.
I'm anti capitalist over here. It's not about that. But it is so interesting that when women are successful, the patriarchy panics. It weaponizes our altruism against us. But we absolutely worship men with money. We worship men with success. We worship men with good careers and Rolex watches and a nice suit like we worship that, And especially in the United States and a very individualistic culture, we worship that.
So if you, as an individual are show gowing up as the fullest version of yourself and pissing people off, great, solid.
And if they don't like it, you know what they can do. They can go find less.
If you are showing up in a relationship and a person feels threatened, typically a man. If you're dating men, like that's not the person for you. If you are showing up at a job and they don't like that you are succeeding, or that your coworkers don't like it you're succeeding. Okay, great, too bad, like the biggest thing we can do as individuals. Again, I mean it sounds like a broken record. We started this the same way,
but like it's the fullest version of yourself. Is a form of protest against a system that constantly demands you play small. So with tall, poppy syndrome. I know because I have friends in Australia. I have friends in the UK. It's very, very common there. It feels like almost gross to be successful. It does because you're like so worried, like is everybody gonna hate me?
It's like a bubble.
We have a bit of that here in the US. I think there's I think it's less. But I also like, as harsh as this sounds, if you don't have people in your life, if you're not in situations in your life that will celebrate you making choices that are right for you, get new friends, it sounds so bad.
No, that's great advice.
Get new friends, get a new partner, get a new job, Like, as long as you are not hurting yourself or others. If your choices make you happy, great. If your choices make you happy but no one gets the fine. Oh I'm getting really philosophical today. I'm so sorry, but like I like this. The only person you have to answer to when your head hits the pillow, even if somebody's next to you on the other pillow, Like, the only
person you have to answer to is you. So if your life doesn't fight you on fire, time to get a new life, like time to get a new one.
It's true, like you deserve so much more, So go and get it because it's there for the taking, with the right education and the right steps and the right people. And I always say to my community, if your friends un championing you, I will champion you. I will be that person that tells you to go find more because your friends they deserve less if they're going to be like that.
I will also say, with all of this, this is only able to happen for the things we can control. This is what my book acknowledges, what my podcast acknowledges. Yes, I can tell you like, go live your best life, live your big dreams. But at the end of the day, there is racism and sexism and homophobia and ableism, and a trillion dollar student death crisis and stagnating minimum wages in this country, a lack of paid family leave, and
all of these things. So it has to be coupled with systemic change, like control the things that you can control show up as the best version of yourself. Get financially educated, Understand how to put a budget together that supports your goals. Understand how to start investing so you can build your wealth, do what you can to find a good paying job that doesn't deplete you, and that
gives you flexibility and options. But at the end of the day, personal finance is about twenty percent those things in eighty percent circumstances. It's about eighty percent systemic issues. And that's where we need government support, policy, change a new system, control the things you can control, and then all of the rest of this has to change in order for us to live in a more pleasurable, more safe,
more equitable society. And I always when I do, you know, talk about like making changes in your life, I always want to acknowledge for the person that's listening, and I know you. I can see you. You're like with your headphones going like Okay, that's great, but like I don't make shit at work, or you know, I've tried and I can't pay off my debt because I don't make
enough money. So know that I see you, and that I understand that at a certain point, choices are not available to you if you don't have the financial means to do so. I don't have an answer. The answer is to vote, The answer is to change policy. The answer is to support legislators and legislation you want to see. But beyond that again, you and I I think work to focus people on controlling the things that they can control and then changing the rest of it for everybody else.
One hundred percent.
Like we'll do the big stuff if we can, Like we'll use our voices to do that.
You don't have to do that. You can take the small steps.
Tory, I think we should run off for a very quick break because I need a tea, But also when we come back, I want to talk about overcoming those barriers a bit more and building some confidence to stand up for yourself.
So guys, don't go anywhere.
I am back with Tory, who is from her first one hundred K, and we have been, what would you say, passionately chatting about our experiences as women in finance, and I think it is beautiful to touch pace on I guess how people can combat it. I really liked what you said at the end of the first break that you know, we do see that it's struggle, and we
do see that it is really hard. And sometimes you listen to stuff, especially cuss like this, and you're like, I want to just throw my phone in the bin. Because I picked up this podcast and I just feel like I can't achieve a lot because the world works.
Against you in a way.
I follow you on TikTok. I love your content. I don't think that is a surprise. You probably see my posts all the time and basically like louder amen, like I'm just hanging out in the back while also not posting my own content, Like I'm just your personal hyt girl at this point.
But you did a TikTok the other day and you were recently asked after talking.
About being get these New York Times bestseller You're like a Forbes thirty under thirty. You're doing all this and the audacity of a guy to stand up to say, what were your credentials?
Ah? Like I nearly threw my phone at the wall. Why do you.
Think that question is asked of somebody who quite clearly is incredibly articulate and passionate and obviously educated. You don't have to ask about credentials because I can tell that you I know your shit, But like, why will you ask that? And when other women are asked that, how should we respond when our authority in our space is questioned?
You will appreciate this not to go to In the weeds, I was speaking to a bunch of financial advisors.
No, you weren't, dah.
It was a lot of like, how is this TikTok social media star qualified to like give financial advice?
So weird? I know more than you bye.
And they also meant like regulation and like basically was asking like do you have a degree in finance? This is again a larger conversation in the weeds, but like in the United States, there's certain things that you can't say if you have like a CFP, a certified financial planner like license or degree, and there's certain things you can't say. So again, that didn't make us sexy of a TikTok. But someone did come up to me. I'm like, keynoting this massive conference. I got paid twenty five k
to be there. Holy Holy, I am literally signing copies of my New York Times bestselling book. And he's like, it was really interesting what you had to say, which is always what men say.
Really interesting what you had to say.
And then he was like, so, basically, how are you able to do what you do? What are your credentials? Yeah? The irony is, yeah, I literally have a book open in front of me and I'm signing my name on it. I'm just like, here you go. I'm doing just fine, sir.
Well, so don't ask a question you could have googled. It makes you look really dumb.
Really, it's just bad. But like I get TikTok comments all the time of like, oh, if you're a millionaire, you're not because you don't look rich, like men tell me like you don't look rich, or your hair's bad, or like if you were a millionaire, you'd live in a better house than that.
So what you are seeing is that living my life in a hoodie is a privilege.
Get out of your uncomfortable pencil skirt.
I wore an Australian hoodie for you today. I bought this actually in a New Zealand. I'm so sorry, but it is an Australian brand and I love it.
I love this. I'll send you one of our She's on the Money hoodies you need much?
Oh my god, I would love that. So yeah, I think that this is back to our conversation about like women playing big in a space patriarchy feel bad, like weaponize altruism, Like that's what's happening. Woman shows up as fullest version of herself, patriarchy panics because realizes she's no longer controllable, tries to cut you down. Now, you have two potential responses. One, which is totally understandable, is to be like, holy shit, am I not qualified to be here?
Am I not qualified to have this job? Am I not qualified to show up and speak at this event? Am I not qualified to do these things? Or do I not say my accomplishments for fear of pissing somebody else off. That is totally understandable, But that is not the right answer.
It's the wrong answer.
The second answer is to show up anyway and understand that the girls that get it get it, and the girls that don't don't. Like there will be people who don't understand what you do, and that's okay. It's okay. And I think, especially as a business owner, this is actually advice I give to a lot of business owners or people who want to be business owners. Is we
feel like we have to appeal to everybody. We feel like we have to serve everybody because everybody it's our potential customer, and like we really want to make sure that we get the money and get clients in order to like support this business. And again you can translate this even if you're not a business owner. I want to make sure that nobody hates me, right, like I want to make sure that everybody likes me and that everything's great. And we know this I'm adding myself to
because I am a Leslie. Nope, I want to be liked by everybody, like even I have to remind myself of this. Even if you try to be liked by everybody, Like if you were the best person for the job of trying to be liked by everybody, somebody out there would still not like you. So you have to again understand that the only person you have to answer to is you. The only person you have to answer to
with your choices and your decisions is you. And if there are certain people that don't get what you're trying to do, that's okay. Like this lovely man who was probably about sixty years old and was a straight white guy asking me like, I think he meant it very well intentionally, but he doesn't understand how it comes across. He's not my audience, and that's okay. He's not the people I'm trying to appeal to he doesn't get it. The girls that get it get it, and the girls
that don't don't, and that's okay. But again, this is back to if we show up as the fullest versions of ourselves the patriarchy, and by patriarchy I sometimes mean men, but what I mean really is like the deeply rooted notion or narrative that someone else's success means some sort of threat to us. This like narrative that we've been told that there's one seat at the table, or that if somebody else is succeeding, it means I can't also succeed.
Or it also feels like a call out. Sometimes if you know you're capable of greatness, whatever greatness looks like for you, and somebody else is doing great things, it can feel like this mirror where you're like, holy shit, this person has that. Why don't I have that? And then again, you have a choice. You have the opportunity to either go, wow, I'm gonna use this person in their story as inspiration for me to motivate me. Or you can be mean on the internet. You can ask, well,
what is the reason that I don't like them? What is the thing I can find that Again, devalues them, devalues their experience makes them look small. So yeah, I mean all roads lead back to patriarchy, oh.
One hundred percent. And isn't that frustrating?
Like I have had my authority questioned multiple times, especially as an Australian, and I am in the really fun position where I do get to snap back because I was a financial advisor, I'm now a retired financial advisor, and I don't just have one degree. I got a whole bunch of them, and I have an MBA, So sit the hell down. It's like, you know when they always say, like you learn more on.
The job, Like I learned more about finance and personal finance and the things that are important to my community, not through my degrees. To me, they mean nothing.
In fact, I look at them and I go, that was a whole heap of debt that I got myself into to get to a position that I arguably was already passionate about, already excited about, and.
Could have just learnt more on the job. So to me, they didn't make me, They didn't help me. They might make a mediocre middle aged white man shut the hell up. And that's good for a hot second. But I just feel like having your authority questioned. I love it, do you know why? Because it means they're a little bit uncomfortable, and I love making men uncomfortable.
It is my favorite. And I also then like to drop back, and I think that you'll get a.
Laugh out of this. But like, if people like to question me, I like to act really dumb and be like, oh, what do you mean and get them to explain themselves or I go, oh my gosh, so sorry. I'm the worst at picking up on tone. Was that meant to be helpful or harmful?
Yeah?
Make them dig their own grave.
My favorite question to like men being stupid is just.
Tell me more about that, And then they can't.
I ask men that all the time.
Tell me more about that, tell me a story.
Very like level headed. But I'll give them this kind of look. I'll tell my hat a little bit and more like, tell me more about that, and they always back check. They're like, oh, well, this thing my favorite. Oh me too, And this is a larger conversation about imposter syndrome. Like I'll tell you a story. I can remember the last time I ever felt like an impostor. It was twenty nineteen her first under K was still a side hustle. It was one of like my first
like big speaking engagements. It felt really big at the time. It was maybe like a crowd of forty people.
That's a lot of people, like at the end of the day, Like.
Especially at the start, it was very significant.
Now, let's just reframe these twenty five K for your last engagement, like queen get it.
So yeah, I was on this panel with I think three or four other people. I was the youngest person on that panel by at least a decade. Speaking of the pencil skirts, Like they had the blazers, they had the pencil skirts, they had the financial licenses, and one was a CFP and like one you know, was a venture capitalist and I'm showing up in this room and I remember thinking, oh, I'm maybe not supposed to be here. Like I had my Adidas on for a really long time.
I had like the signature leather jacket that I war for everything, like that's what I had on.
I love these I love it so much.
And I you know, it was twenty four and was just like, this is gonna be interesting. They're way more qualified than I am. Their resumes are way longer, than mine. What am I doing here? And as we got started, I started looking out into the audience and it was all women in their twenties and thirties.
They lived for you, my friend, right.
They looked like me, they were dressed like me. And I turned, you know, to these very smart people who were very kind and very intelligent, very good at their jobs. But literally one of them started saying words like acid allocation and portfolio diversifying. It was almost comical. I saw
every single woman just her eyes glazed over. Of course not because she's stupid, it's just it's jargony stuff that like because they had been in the industry for so long, they just took as like everybody knows this.
Yeah.
And that was the moment where I was like, Oh, I'm here for a specific reason. I'm here to make this non ap proachable topic approachable. I'm here to show up as someone who could be like a friend or a sister to this person. I'm here to actually talk about personal finance one oh one as if it's one oh one, not what they think one oh one is. And like that was literally the last moment I've ever had imposter syndrome, because I was like I'm supposed to be here.
You finally knew that that was the room you want men to be right.
I don't have as big of a resume, I haven't been through as many of these things. But I'm here for a particular reason to talk to this particular person. Like that was so helpful for me, and maybe it's helpful for you too. Listener of like showing up in rooms where you might not be the most qualified person, You're there for a different reason. You're there so that people feel less alone. You're there so that people can
see themselves in you. You're there to translate jargon like you're there for a different reason, and that reason is just as valid, And I would argue maybe even more valid, because you are the best person that job.
I love this.
I feel like I've been talking to you forever. You are a very busy woman. I do not want to eat up any more.
Of your time. I feel like you and.
I could talk about this until the cows come home. And I genuinely cannot wait until we get an opportunity to do this again, Like I will be following you up to be like when can we meet?
How much coffee can we drink? And yell at each other over like I just I think this is so good.
This has been great.
But one of my favorite questions to ask people is Tory came on this podcast and you're very generous with your time, and you said, yeah, I'll give the shees on the money community a piece of me to help them get ahead. But coming into any interview, what is one question that you wish people would ask you.
I get asked a lot of course about like where does somebody get started financially? And I think that's really helpful. I think one of the things that I am most proud of that actually doesn't have anything to do with personal finance is how we've built our business, and I wish more people are about that. Like I said before, we have a team. We have built this company. We have built honestly like a media company. I built that with twenty dollars, Like I signed up for a Squarespace subscription,
I bought a domain. Maybe it was forty I think I bought the Squarespace subscription and then I bought the domain, so it's probably about forty bucks. Like I took no outside funding. We don't do paid ads, like we have grown an audience to four million people with organic social media. Now, if you don't work in social media, that is almost impossible to do.
Yeah, Like that is the biggest bragging rights in the entire world.
It's very difficult, especially with companies like a Meta or a Google that basically tank your organic content.
If you're not paying.
And I had this background in social media, and I literally worked for companies that would spend hundreds of thousands of dollars a month just on Facebook ads. And now I have a ton of privilege. I want to be clear about that. That's a huge part of my story. I'm a cisgendered white woman who you know, graduated college debt free because she worked through college but also had parents to help pay. Like, I have a lot of privileges, but I didn't have this like rich uncle who swooped
in was like, here's some investment money for your business. Like, I am really really proud of what I have been able to do as an individual, what our team has been able to do, what our community stands for creating a mission and value based company to teach women how to navigate the financial system, but also working to take this community and give them both an individual purpose and a collective purpose and the fact that I didn't ask
for outside money to do that. I haven't paid for ads, Like I'm really proud of that.
I am in awe of that, Like thank you, especially in America where it is so hard to get ahead, especially as a woman, and to be able to be like I don't spend anything on its. I also didn't take anybody's money. I did THEEPS. I am just ah, I love it so much.
Thank you.
I'm so glad I asked that.
And it's also like, without getting too emotional, like I'm really proud of myself. I've always had a vision for something bigger, but I didn't know that this was it. Like I always make the joke like if you would have told me five years ago, Tory, you're going to be educating people about money, I would have laughed in your face.
Same I would have been like that sounds awful.
Literally, I like that sounds born as hell.
I thought I was going to be a psychologist.
Lucas is now like what the goal was to be an actor for me and then a marketer and then like it's turned into this and so it's just really really amazing to see the impact it's had on people's lives to see the impact it's had on my own life, Like I'm financially independent. That's the other thing that I
wish more people asked me about. I was financially independent at twenty seven years old, meaning I never had to work another day in my life if I didn't want to, because I had saved slash invested enough money that I could have hypothetically quit working. Now, I don't want to do that because I like what I do. We have a company now, and we do all these things. I'm proud of that. There's a lot of things I'm proud of, I think with HKA and with how I've grown. I
don't know how much time we have. But the other thing that I think is really important that I wish we talked more about, just as a society and as people who are public people online, is that it is very,
very difficult to be a person online. And we were never meant to be or designed to be, as humans beings that took everybody's opinion and took a million pieces of data all of the time in you know, one ten minute scrolling session on Instagram or TikTok, Like I always think about if I walk down the street and that worked the same way my social media feed did.
One person would be so excited to meet me, which would be lovely, and then I'd have five people screaming obscenities or calling me fat to my face.
It just it's not the reality, is it.
It's not the reality. And it's also like, I think most of us are just trying to do the best that we can. We're just trying to show up as the best versions of ourselves, and we are going to make mistakes, and we are also going to sometimes make decisions that other people don't understand because there's information that we have that somebody else doesn't, and we're just trying to do the right thing. And it's really often difficult, even with all of these very flashy measures of success
and things that I'm so grateful for. You were talking about showing up on TikTok every day. That is not easy.
Oh no, That's why I'm impressed. Obviously, working a nine to five Monday to Friday job is much harder than that. However, yes, I think it's one of those things where just showing up it takes so much more than the time, right It takes the energy. It takes me so much emotional energy just to turn up online.
And even if you're not an influencer or a public person, like social media is a beautiful way to connect with people, it is also so damaging to your psyche, Like it's so hard to create content, to show up to do that day in or day out, to do that where people are screaming at you and just saying really gross things about you. And again, I don't have an answer, but just like, be kind to people online, like show up as the kindest version of yourself in all aspects
of your life. But especially if you're hiding behind this like anonymity, or you're telling somebody that you don't actually know in real life about all of your opinions about their work or about them.
It says so much more about them than it ever does about you. And I just don't think they realize that. And it's the sad reality of the world because, as you said before, we're all just out here trying to do the best that we can, and your best is.
Obviously way way way up there, but.
Your best is actually just trying to put other people in the best possible position, because you know, that a lot of them aren't and they deserve that. And the idea that people don't like that blows my mind, Like the idea that you're just out here trying to help and people hate it.
Yeah, And just the assumption of positive intent, I think is so important. This is important for ourselves, it's important for our relationships. It's also important for like people you admire or follow online, like offer yourself and meet and Victoria and everybody else you follow. Like just a little bit of grace.
I love that.
We're doing the best that we can, and we are doing this in the hopes that we can take care of ourselves, we can take care of our team, we can take care of our communities, and that we can leave the world a little bit better than we found it. And all of this sounds like touchy feely, but like truly, just be kind to people, especially the people that like you follow and you hold in high regard, because we are people too. We are out here doing the best we can with all of it.
I love it, Tory. I think that is probably one of the best places to leave it that I've ever seen.
So I am going to wrap us up here, but before we go, thank you for sharing so much time with me and with my community. I know they are going to be so excited about this episode.
I feel like you're right. This episode is a little bit more fluffy.
But like I hope people walk away feeling so inspired, so empowered to just take the first step if they haven't done that yet, or just know that they're on the right track, right Like if you're listening to this and you're like, I am doing those things, like you get it, queen, Like I love.
It so much.
But for those of you who might not have met you yet, how do we stay in touch?
How do we follow you? How do we buy your book? How do I do all of those things that I want everyone in my community to be doing?
Thank you. I know there's a lot of actionable advice on your episodes and your podcast as well as mine, so hopefully this was actually a nice reprieve from some of that. Her first hunder k is our brand. You can go to her first hundred k dot com for all of the ways to work with us and to consume our content. We're also her first hunder k and all the socials my podcast and book are called Financial Feminists and should be available wherever you listen to podcasts and wherever you read your books.
We will link to all of them in our show notes so it can't be missed and you don't have to write that down. But again, Tory, thank you so much for sharing so much time and so much space and honestly, so much of you. I feel like I've learned in this I guess hour that we've been recording just so much about who you are as a person,
and I'm even more obsessed, like I love it. I just can't wait until we cross paths in person and get to talk more about business, like I want to know how you built this business and I want to share that with my community too. So, guys, thank you so much for listening, and Tory, thank you so much for joining.
I love it, Thanks for having me.
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