Hannah Ferguson on Workplace Equality, Ethics & OnlyFans

As this podcast is about connecting, empowering, knowledge sharing and the storytelling of you to make a difference for today and lasting impact for tomorrow.

we'll be helping to answer a juicy money dilemma. This week, it's all about what to do in a workplace that promotes men over women hate. And then we're also going to unpack something you slit into our DMS about and this week we're chatting about what to do when you discover your sister has and only fans.

sex and relationships. Just more social and cultural commentary. I also have a podcast, which is a news and pop culture podcast called Big Smalltalk, which I co host with my co founder Sarah, and then I also have a book called bite Back. So that's kind of like how cheek the umbrella or works. I have different few things going on once, and the instagram is cheek media dot Co. So it's really just like feminist, left wing opinion on the current news.

things in a way that isn't biased. And I feel like you do a really good job sometimes of those tougher conversations, all those tougher perspectives, and you know, sharing a really fair and measured perspective.

underneath layer that we aren't talking about. So it's me trying to have the conversations that we've never had.

of worried about that. I was like, what do you know when you go on annually even stuff and you're like, what do you actually.

don't go at all, that is also okay. Because I feel like I'm very in or nothing mentality, and I go, I'm going to go every other day and I'm gonna get so fit, I'm gonna do this and that, And I really struggle with that because it's hard to commit to you, Like, we're so busy and you know, work is always crazy and socializing and I stide hustle, and

sometimes it all just gets so much. And I feel like we were talking on an episode very recently about setting yourself up for successful failure with goals, and so I'm trying to just be kind to myself. Yeah, those sorts of things and be like, hey, like if you go once, that's awesome, and if you don't go old that's cool too. So working on that at the moment.

I got sixty six dollars plus another ninety two dollars with stuff I collected from work. So she's made I'm trying to do the math in my head really quickly. Her one hundred and fifty eight dollars, I think.

which is huge. If you want to get those hacks, they're free on our website. It's like bingo but with money, and it's very fun if I love that. Next, I've got a money win from Tara and she said, if you're in New South Wales and you used toll, I recommend using the app and getting your rebate for either this year or last year. If you hit the threshold, they don't tell you automatically, so you have to go into the app and check. Both herself and her partner

got a couple of hundred dollars back each. And you're in Sydney, aren't you, Hannah, Have you ever done that?

So I applied for a parking permit and they said no. So then I fought that, and in the meantime, I was getting parking tickets because I have this one hour parking and I fought them all and said, you've not actually provided me with a parking permit. I've been trying to fight you on it. And I got all these parking tickets wiped.

It's an app for women or female identifying and it's basically like, if you go to certain stores that have agreement like this app has agreements with certain stores, if you spend money there, a percentage of that spend or that purchase will go into your either mortgage or your super It's kind of like on the way to bridging the gender pay gap in a nice little way, you know what I mean. Like it's doing their bit. So Grow your Money app. I really recommend it.

how that actually works for authors. But authors are still paid every time a book is borrowed from a library, So if you're someone who goes to libraries and borrows books, don't be worried about how much the author makes because they're still getting I think it's like a dollar fifty per borrow. But the libraries also have an application which has hundreds of audiobooks on that you can access for free.

So if you're someone who likes audiobook that doesn't want to pay for Audible because it's really expensive a lot of audio listening apps, libraries have an actual catalog that you can access on your phone. You don't have to go in and hire a disc like. You actually can access as material for free. And I think that a lot of people who are avid readers wouldn't know about it. Potentially no, and.

But I've just been overlooked for a promotion that would see more pay for a male chef who is not only newer on the team, but doesn't do any of this work. I'm devastated. Should I leave raise it with my boss? Or am I just being silly?

and then we're against ourselves, So that's not helpful. In the first instance.

Do you guys think I mean, my opinion really is, yeah, you should leave if they're overlooking you. I think that it sounds like a cultural issue, but I feel like it could be worth raising it too, because sometimes these biases are really unconscious, and you know, if we don't have the conversations, we can't necessarily expect to facilitate change.

I know that it can be really tough to have those conversations, and I'd love to know how you guys think that our listener could approach something like that.

it is a thing that happens. You're not being silly, You're not crazy, you're not silly, You're not any of these things. I basically want you to validate yourself because we're validating you.

lack of a paper trail. So at least in corporate offices, there's always this sort of like paper trail where you can clearly see the communication and lay out a timeline of events that may actually speak to the fact that this is more objective gender discrimination and gives more rise to like a professional formal complaint that can be made and taken to somewhere like the Fair Work Commission or a body that's suited to deal with something like this.

But it's so hard when you're working, say in a kitchen as a chef, and you know that all of the interactions you're having or ninety percent of them are not via text or via a phone call, or via voicemail or via email, and there's a lack of a trail that you feel you can speak to objective evidence, right, So it is something where you want to be raising it with your boss in the first instance, and just asking I would even suggest, like in the first instance,

having the conversation not through the learns of is it because I'm a woman, but saying like, can you just

explain to me why this person was selected? Not in like an obviously like a personal attack way, but almost in a looking for feedback as to what could be done next time, Because if you approach the conversation like that, even though you could be absolutely enraged and have every right to be, you're opening up a conversation where they're pretty much giving you the answer consciously or not, as to what happened there, and you can take whatever information

you gathered and actually move forward that And I think that can be really telling because then if they point to specific things and you have your arguments of when you started, what your qualifications are, and the distinction between you and the person that was chosen over you, you can then start to paying the clearer picture as to what's happened, and whether that's that you want to make a gender discrimination complaint about your workplace formally, whether you

want to look for work elsewhere. I think it's about having the conversation in the first instance, to kind of look at, Okay, what reasoning has been communicated to me, and how do I feel about that reasoning before you can make any further steps.

what were the points of difference between us? And maybe they say, oh, they've got this qualification or they've got this skill, or they've done this or done that, and then you can use that metric as a baseline to say, oh, well, actually I have this, or I have that or I

did this instead. And as you were saying, it really opens up firstly, the opportunity for conversation where you know, if it is a situation where perhaps the deciding factor wasn't gender biased, then you know, now you have an understanding of what your clear markers or steps are to receive that promotion opportunity next time it comes up. And if that's not the case, if you know it is leaning more towards the space that you are being discriminated against.

It gives you something concrete and solid to say, hey, like, based on the facts, based on the statistics that we can't argue with, this is the experience that I'm having, And it allows you to have that conversation either with your manager or as you were saying, with the appropriate body to report them, be that fair work or somebody else, in a way that isn't skewed by emotion, because I think when we have these conversations around gender bias, it

tends to often be brought up, Oh, you're being emotional, or women have a tendency to be emotional, you have a tendency to take it a certain way. And I think if we take the emotion out of it and really just operate on solid facts, solid information, and wherever possible document it in writing, so via email, via text, because as Hannah was saying, a lot of the time in these kinds of workplaces, someone's yelling something at someone

across the kitchen and it's not necessarily formally documented. Having that concrete, in arguable evidence, so to speak, will help you down the line, no matter what choice you want to make in terms of how you pursue it, I think, yeah.

That's totally up to you. Gives you the tools and the resources to know what your work post rights are and how to pursue that line if you are interested in it down the track.

on there. It's WGE Agency is their Instagram. But yeah, I feel like that wraps that up in a nice little bow. More than anything, I just want to say I'm sorry. I think a lot of us can relate to being in that situation where you feel like perhaps you're in a male dominated space and you're not being heard or honored in the way that you deserve to be, and that just can impact like how you feel about

yourself as well. And I just want to say that your valid and your your skill set and just you as a human being is not based on the perception that the people around you have in the workplace or in anywhere other situation. Either. I'm sorry that that's happening to you, and you one hundred percent deserve better. Don't overlook or minimize that feeling.

through the world. However they choose and good on her for making an income through OnlyFans, and I do truly feel this, but she is also my sister, and I feel worried for her long term future and well being in doing this. She has said that she's dropped her hours at her retail job as she makes more money on OnlyFans, but I don't think that she should be relying on this as her primary form of income. Am I a bad feminist for feeling concerned for her and

not being one hundred percent supportive? Can I voice my concern to her? There's so many facets.

of anything. But I think it's fair enough. It's valid to think like if this is a I suppose like a career that is not really maybe going to take her into her like you know, late years in life, or maybe she's going to stop this eventually, and you kind of just want her to focus on something that will be a little bit more like long lasting, or something she can fall back on just in case it stops working out. That's a different story. And I really that is a really tough one, Like how do you

even broach that subject? You know, that sounds yeah, like you're against what she's doing.

perceive publicly. Absolutely, but unfortunately that isn't the world that we live in currently. And I guess I understand wanting to make sure that she's aware that the choices that she makes may have those implications. For example, industries like teaching, I could see it potentially being something that could become an issue, you know, because they have very strict rules around,

you know, what people can and can't do. Again, not that I agree that that should be the case, but I also do very much think you know, she's her own human and she deserves her own autonomy, and if it's something that she's happy and she's safe and she's making money, as you were saying back, I think like that is the most important thing. As for bringing it up, it's a really tough conversation because I don't even now

us having this conversation. I'm struggling to convey how I feel in a way that acknowledges what I feel to be all of the relevant and important things, because part of them say like, yeah, girl, get your bag, do what you do. Proud and happy for you, but the other part of me wants to say, hey, but there are these other things to consider. There are you know,

The reality is there may be implications. You know. I want you to be aware of that too, because I don't want that to stop you from getting your dream job down the track. And I don't know how you could approach that. And there's I don't have a sister, but I imagine that's a very challenging bond to navigate in and of itself as well. I don't really know what the answer is, but Hannah, you look like you definitely have something to say.

problem is an only fans. The problem is social expectation and judgment, right, And so the problem is not and I think I would say to this person, your concern and your like sort of insecure feelings around this aren't actually steeped in a regressive or conservative view that you hold.

They're steeped in the fact that you worry how other people will perceive your sister, and so you're taking on the mental load of that concern of judgment that society might hold for her and what that means for her. That's coming from a good place, But I think it's about considering how you then approach that conversation because like as feminists, I say, absolutely get it. What I would say the conversation would be from my perspective is not saying,

should you be doing OnlyFans no slay. The conversation should be, hey, what is your long term savings plan and what is your protective layer here in case you were to struggle to find work afterwards, because we know how society is. I think it's about approaching it from the judgment perspective and saying, I'm with you, but financially security wise, what

is your plan? Because I want to protect you from what other people might say and think if you want to go into X Y Z industry, because I would say that to myself and my sister, like do you have you know, financial advice? Do you have an accountant? Do you need help with your actual financial management to make you feel secure in your progressive awesome choices, because I would say it is super impressive that you have the like fortitude to go and do that and to

make money from it, and to be super impressive. But think about it this way. Politicians for a long time received a guaranteed pension after retirement because there was a belief, and that belief was quite true that after someone retired from politics they would struggle to find a job because of things they'd said and done in their role that was very public. It's kind of the same thing. There is a risk associated and it's how you protect someone

from that risk. So it's not problematic to worry because you're worrying about you want to protect your sister from society or not judging her. And so as long as you've asked yourself those questions about where your worry is coming from, and as long as that's not judgment from you, just work out what is your worry and articulate that in a protective and considered way. I think, because she's doing well and as long as she can continue to do well and prepare for the future, so be it.

on the Money Only Fans. There's been some great ones, but something that we've heard when talking to people is that sometimes they go from earning not a lot they're just earning an ordinary, solid wage, to earning in some cases, crazy amounts of money that you could only dream of.

And when people it's kind of like winning the lottery, like you're not always prepared or equipped for that situation, and people historically have often gone, oh my god, I have all this money that I didn't have before, and they've blown it. Whereas it's a really good time for her now, like you were saying, Hannah, to be thinking

about her future. Should she be investing, should she be putting money aside in savings, How is she putting the extra money that she has now to work to support her if she can't find employment or even if she decides to keep doing only vans like whatever her future looks like, I think not taking her newfound success and letting that get away from her, because I think too many times we've seen people who have had an opportunity and not handled their money in perhaps the best way.

They've not had the right advisors or support around them, and that has meant that that opportunity or that influx of cash has kind of been rendered redundant. And we don't want to see that happened to her either.

good chat about it. So an overwhelming majority of people were concerned for something that someone they loved was doing, but didn't bring it up to that Sure, Okay, which is crazy. And then we said tell us your two cents, And it was a really varied mix of responses, and I think people coming from kind of the different perspectives that we've discussed here. One person said, you're right to be concerned. Your sister needs to have a backup plan

for if her only fans income dries up. Somebody else said, it's very hard to earn good or consistent income from something like only fans. Is she putting all of her eggs in one basket? But somebody else said, make the money while she can, and she can always go back to retail whenever she wants. Somebody said, don't worry about other people's money and how they make it. And I wanted to ask you guys about this because it's a

bit of a catch twenty two, right. It's the feeling concerned for the people that we love and wanting the best for them.

somebody else is doing. Or is it a little bit of a disservice to the person you love by not making sure or helping them to chat about something.

or feeling comfortable to have. What I would say the difference is here, just from my consideration, then, is the reason people don't approach the conversations because they think there's judgment and they don't want to hurt the relationship. Yeah, but that's why I think it comes back to the how. I think it comes back to sitting with yourself and saying, where is my concern coming from? And is that fair and justified concern? And how can I approach this in

the way that actually expresses the concern without conveying judgment. Yes, because we shouldn't be silent on money because it's money. That's just going back to that archaic way of thinking that prevents women from earning more, asking for more pay, asking for better conditions and more flexible working arrangements. We need to converse. It's about how is it in a respectful and comfortable, secure way.

out where the concern comes from. I think that if you are in a position where you're kind of concerned about someone's career choice or what they're doing, and you want to voice your opinion, really just figuring out what's the root of your concern, because if it's like I don't like only fans, then that's you know, you're going to have to start breaking down your own like way of thinking and being like, where does that come from?

Is that my train of thought? Or is that society's train of thought and where like is that even based

in anything like probably actually not. But if it's actually, like you know, I don't know, let's say your partner as a firefighter and you're scared because that's actually really really dangerous kind of career, you know, just trying to figure out the actual root of your own thinking and asking why why why until you break it all the way down and if you still have solid reason to be concerned, then yes, exactly, like kind of like approaching it in a way that's not judgmental, in a way

that's kind of like objective, in kind, compassionate and yeah, so that's sorry, is the longest way to answer your question.

thought patterns and processes. And even if you come to realize that something you are thinking or feeling is a response to a societal standard that perhaps doesn't sit well with your values, we need to remember that a lot of things are so ingrained in us because it's what we've seen and watched and learned from a really young age, and to undo that train of thinking does take conscious effort.

And so even if your knee jerk response to this as a listener was you know, well, she shouldn't be doing only fans, maybe that was your immediate response, and upon reflection, if you go, why was I thinking that? Was it coming from a place of concern for her future? Was it coming from a place of maybe I'm not as positive of women in the sex industry? Looking at

why and how that is? I think, don't feel like you're a bad person if you necessarily are repeating thought patterns that you have been exposed to, because I think we can all identify as feminists but still have things that we need to work on and understand within ourselves. It is actually speaking from my personal experience, like it takes some work to undo those intrinsic thoughts and those

patterns and feelings. And that is something that is active, and that comes from those reflections that you have in your thoughts and your feelings and your responses, and sometimes you don't even realize that they're there until you experience something that brings it up and prompts that response from you. And so I just want to say, if that is the case, you don't feel like that makes you inherently a bad person, Like reflection is a good thing. That's

what makes us grow. Totally, because I don't want to villainize. I guess the idea of something that maybe you didn't know that was there, If that makes any sense.

your job to control your impact. But if someone comes back to you and says it hurt you, it hurt them, or it made them uncomfortable, that really is showing that gap. So it's about sitting with it and considering it before you actually land.

have the information that was provided to us. But I think the overarching outcome here and from a lot of our listeners is as long as she's making considered choices and is aware of the broader impacts, you know, let her do what she wants, but it's not a bad thing for her sister and our listener to have that conversation, as long as it's done in a kind and compassionate way. Absolutely amazing. Any last thoughts from anyone before we wrap up. I think I'm really satisfied with that. That was a

really good one. Hannah. You are so articulate and wonderful. Thank you so much for coming on and sharing your thoughts. You are the best, absolutely wonderful. Thank you.