EP122 Growing Cannabis for Hashmaking with guest Conner Terpwizard

Since the beginning, Shaping Fire has been about self sufficiency. Cannabis enthusiasts should not need the stores. They should just be a fun option. Sure, normalization of cannabis is helpful for staying out of jail for now, but it isn't always helpful in buying quality cannabis and cannabis preparations in the licensed market. Especially if you are a patient or a connoisseur. Especially if it is hash.

Often, the mix of cannabis varieties and products in the market tend to be more about the convenience of the mega cannabis companies than the actual desires of consumers. While some states have excellent Hash rosin in the legal market, Hash rosin is one of the product areas where the small batch, unlicensed Hash Maker reigns supreme. If you can grow and squish, you are well on your way to creating something on par or better than the licensed market in most states.

And damn, Hash rosin ain't cheap. Today's episode is offered to encourage you to take the leap and consider cultivating your own flower to supply your own hash. Sure, buy from the licensed system when you want, but never be beholden to it. Paying taxes on your hash ain't natural. If you want to learn about cannabis health, cultivation, and technique efficiently and with good cheer, I encourage you to subscribe to our newsletter.

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newsletter. So go to shapingfire.com to sign up for the newsletter and be entered into this month's and all future newsletter prize drawings. If you like what we do and wanna put something in the tip jar, you can Venmo at Shango Los. You are listening to Shaping Fire and I am your host, Shango Los. Welcome to episode 122. My guest today is Connor Terp Wizard. Connor, more commonly known as Terp Wizard, has been washing hash for a decade and cultivating even longer.

His hash and his specialty genetics for making hash have won awards across the country and in Spain. Connoisseurs flock to his genetics for the taste and performance hash makers are looking for. We actually gave away a bunch of Turp Wizard seeds on Shaping Fire about six months ago. Great stuff. Connor has a culinary background and studied at Augusta Estoffier, but then found himself making edibles and in no time was cultivating flower and making your hash instead of your dinner.

Today we will learn about cultivating flowers specifically for making hash. During the first set we will discuss the attributes of excellent hash and the flowers that make it. In the second set, we will focus on cultivation tips, garden design, and harvest timing. And we wrap up talking about yield calculations, dried flower hash versus fresh frozen, and handling plants post harvest. While prepping for this episode, Connor repeated something that passion for hashing once said on Hashish Inn.

It's better to have a little bit of great hash than a whole lot of okay hash. Welcome to Shaping Fire, Connor. Thanks for having me, Shango. It's, been it was really cool to get asked to be on here. I've been listening to your show for years and have, gained a lot of knowledge from these episodes. So I'm I'm stoked to be here. Yeah.

Thank you very much. It was it made me very happy when you said that it was on your bucket list to be on the show when I invited you because, I have a lot of respect for you and your work and, honestly, you as a person too. You know, we run-in some of the same scenes and, and, and you're you're a guy that, you know, folks universally like because of your nature. So thanks for joining us today on Shaping Fire, and let's dive right into it, man. You know, our goal here is to is to help everybody

make better hash. Right? But let's let's get us all on the same page on what we mean by good hash. What would you say are the hash attributes commonly sought in the market right now by people who love hash? I think from a consumer side and a grower or processor side, those can be two different things. From the grower and processor side, we obviously want

it to be viable in some nature. So depending on the environment you're growing in between indoors where there's a lot of extra costs with environmental control and and lighting and everything that comes with that versus maybe growing under the sun with little to no power bill, that viability can change.

So for, the cultivation and processing side, it would be focusing on, is it something that washes well, something that works for my growing style, something that is flavorful, a great expression, great representation of the parents or whatever you hunted or got. And then, I think on both sides between the consumer and the processor and grower, we want it to, just be have that wow factor or be enjoyable. So opening the jar, you want the consistency usually to be a wetter.

And it seems like these days people are really focused on the color of the Hash two, so a generally lighter color in the blonde spectrum. And then a great nose, very clean on the nail or however you're deciding to smoke it. And then, you know, great taste and effect. I would say that's kinda like the whole thing that defines great hash, you know, summing it up kind of, and also trying to cover all the things that I about when looking for something that's, great.

So one of the things that I noticed that you didn't mention is the test results. And, you know, as a lover of flower as I am, you know, we are constantly telling people, don't focus on the flower test results. Flow Focus on the terpene profile because the, you know, the turps and the esters shape the high in such a way that that, you know, just a high THC percentage is is totally a misnomer.

And it sounds to me that that, you know, you as a as a craft, hash rosin producer, you mentioned the parts that are key, color, consistency, taste, you know, a good expression of the of the parents, all that good stuff that makes for quality craft.

Do you find that you are also put under pressure for the numbers, you know, when when you are selling into the market, or are are your are the people who enjoy your, hash, do they know better where where they they know that they're buying based on flavor and overall buzz experience versus a raw number? I don't think that the people that I'm working with are too concerned about that. Being on the caregiver and medical side, it's

a little different for me. I don't necessarily see a lot of people testing. Unfortunately, the lab that we liked using over here, shut down due to, some circumstances I'm not aware about. But I I'm not too aware of people doing that on the carrier medical side, and I don't really know how that's perceived on, the the side where people are going to a store, whether that is medical or recreational. I don't think that those people are necessarily looking

at numbers to dictate their choice. I think if you're able to check check out a jar, you know, you're basing it off of what you're getting visually and, through your your nose. And if you're lucky enough when you're getting you get to try it and then be like, oh, this is great. I'd love to get a jar. But I that's not happening at dispensaries these days, at least anywhere near us. Right on. You've attended a lot, more,

hash competitions than I have. When you when when when you go to these hash competitions, are are people presenting, tests for that stuff, or or is is the is the potency, you know, an afterthought? It's from what I've seen, it's just an honor system, you know, that people will want you to enter clean stuff, and they just, you know, when you fill out some entry forms, they're just, you know, remind me that please be curious of that or, you know, that's as far as they ask for testing

on that. And, I'm blanking on the second half of the question. That's right. You you you already answered it. It sound it sounds like since everybody is self reporting their potencies, it's just not super important. Because if if it was a key part of the voting, then then folks, you know, they wouldn't be self reported.

And, the the impact of this, which I really like, is we know that, you know, the the Hash rosin community, tends to be, you know, an elite group of connoisseurs, and they've just moved past the test numbers. Because if if they're, you know, if they're if they're getting hash from somebody with an established name of Making Quality, they know that when they get the flavor and the smells and the and the expression and the color, that that the that the numbers are are going to be plenty good.

And, and it and it's nice to see that, you know, evolving solidly in in a part of the cannabis scene because, you know, the scene as a whole is still trying to learn that flavor is everything. You know? Yeah. Well, I I remembered my thought about the competition side and potency, I'm on the second part of that. Mhmm. For my experience in a lot of these competitions, they're kind of just like a day or two, and you have to get through a fair amount of entries more than most

people would smoke in a day. So potency really isn't, considered, for what is winning because you're going through such a high volume that you don't know if what you just felt was from the last stab you took or several back. So it when you're scoring things out, that's not really, a category because you don't have the proper time to

really get the effect into it. I think more than that, there's, like, usually an extra category or something when you're scoring that's, like, a wow factor or something that was where it's, like, a couple points or nothing crazy. So you're, like, oh, wow. That really cut through in one way or another. But, you know, it's it's kinda hard if you're, you know, having to do 30 dads in a sitting and you're like, fuck. I don't know which one I just felt. Yeah. Talk about being a wreck at the end

of the judging. My goodness. Yeah. So so for today, you know, the the the the world of hash is huge. Right? So I think that it's important for us to kinda narrow it down to so that people know what to expect. So, you know, the the the, you know, the the the primary types of hashes that that are around and available are are Hash rosin, temple balls, and and probably still BHO places. And and I am not here to, trash BHO in any way. Enjoy what you like. Grow and produce what you like. You'll find

other people that like what you're producing. That's awesome. Don't hate on what everybody else is producing. But today, we're gonna be focusing on Hash rosin, because that's what Connor's specialty is, and and so that's what we're gonna focus on. So, you know, I I personally love rosin and temple balls. But again, temple balls are are

not really what we're talking about today. So so we have love for temple balls and BHO may makers, but but we're we're we're we're focusing on rosin today, but but don't don't think that we're, like, excluding you as not, not relevant. So so, Connor, can a plant that doesn't smoke well as flower still make excellent hash? Because a lot of people just think, well, if you if you wanna make good hash, just take your best flower that you grow and just make

hash with it. And and I I don't real while it can be that easy, I don't think that, an advanced hash maker is following that plan. No. Not at all. I've had the, pleasure of working with some other farmers. And before they're fully on board or know what we're looking for on our end, they'll, you know, be transitioning from growing for flower mainly and then wanting to, offer more, see what their plants can do on the, you know, washing side and and extraction side.

And, yeah, they'll they'll be like, oh, this flower looks great. It's covered in trichomes. It's it's really nice. And then we wash it, and it just doesn't perform how we were expecting. And that, you know, comes down to maybe going out to their garden and looking at the plants and trying to get a feel for how the trichomes are.

And, yeah, I found too, like, when we were switching over from primarily growing for flower versus, you know, washing freezing and washing everything, that some of these plants that you'd probably get rid of based on how maybe, like, area or the structure isn't what you're looking for are actually great for the extraction side because they offer a lot more surface area and allow for the trichomes to be really accessible and for the the heads, the glands to fall off very easily.

Great. So we know that it is a unique process that, has got its own attributes. So let's talk about those attributes, because during the rest of the show, we're gonna be talking about how to improve and hit these attributes in a great way. So, what are the attributes that you look for in flower that makes excellent hash?

Yeah. If you'd like, I can even go through kind of our process that starts from, like, when we pop a seed all the way to the end and, like, walk people through kinda the whole process instead of just focusing on flour. That sounds really good. Why don't you walk us through the process? That way people can really envision it in their brains. Yeah. So we go through a fair amount

of seeds in a year. And as we're going through, because I'm working with a a higher volume, I'll, you know, pull out the weird ones, pull out the slower ones, and try to find very, vigorous growing plants from the vegetative state. And as we're working through, you know, they're getting bigger. And then we're taking a clone. And if it's easy to clone, that's another check on the box. I know sometimes from seed versus, further down the line the clone, that could change, but that's a great sign

for us. So that's, like, another thing. I'm I'm willing to work with trickier plants, but the easier and the more healthy the the plant is from the start, the more likely I'd like to keep it around, and I think that's been great for us on the seed production side. So after we're kind of pulling these out of the vegetative state and and starting to, cull the herd, we'll get them into flower and start looking at, the growth traits in flower usually about halfway through. I don't

wanna pull anything too early. Obviously, I'm I'm looking for any instability, anything that's showing intersex traits. Obviously, pulling males too if we're not trying to select for something like that. And then the later half of flower, I'll start feeling the the lower buds and trying to pinch them off in the last couple weeks to get an idea of what I'm experiencing with my nose, and then checking, my finger to see kind of what the trichomes are like.

So, generally, there's kinda like three, trichome heads that I'll I'll experience in flower, and there's some stuff that's kinda like in between. There's like a very, greasy, almost like a, a lotion kind of when you when you're grabbing the flower. You'll see it, like, spread out on your finger. And if you have black gloves on, you won't see, like, any, trichomes. And those are really great for flower, but they're they're not what you wanna be growing for the extraction

side. And then kind of the middle of the road is, a trich you'll start seeing the trichomes, and they'll kinda be somewhere between this lotion y, and the final would be like sandy. And these kind of trichomes, you'll, like, squeeze together and pull your finger, and it will be, what we're referring to as stringers. And those are starting to point in the direction that this plant would be good for an extraction process.

And then finally the sandy trichome where there'd be something like maybe like a GMO. That's where we've seen a lot of that kind of sandy trichome. Those are a little bit harder to find. And those are super stable. You know, you'll still maybe get the stringer thing, but that would be like you touch it with the the black gloves once again, and you're seeing a ton of trichomes. So they're really, durable and able to stand up, and those are great for

ice water extraction as well. And and though that middle stage where they're you're creating stringers and the sandy is where I wanna be for something that I would keep. So we'll pull out all the unfavorable profiles and kind of, like, lotion y, looking and and feeling resin. And then from there, we will I'm taking a lot of notes so I so I know later once I get those through flowered, but then we'll, jar test

them. So because I'm doing these hunts in one gallons and trying to only use up a small footprint in my garden, I will just take a very small mason jar and fill it up with like five to seven grams and freeze that. And I'm removing any plant material that doesn't have any trichomes on it. Usually what I'll do is I'll let let them sit for twenty four hours and then come back the next morning

and shake them. And I'm using a, attachment to, like, a jigsaw that kinda looks like a, a brace for a snowboard, and it's made for, shaking cans. So this thing is great for attaching and keeping the consistency of how the the shake is happening so that if I was doing it by hand, there'd be inconsistencies. And I'm trying to keep everything the same. So by using that tool, I knock out one variable, as long as all the settings on the

tool set the same. And we do it for about a minute and let it let it sit for, maybe like a half hour to an hour. It doesn't really matter at that point as long as you let everything settle, and then we'll observe, the density of trichome heads. And whichever ones are looking the best, that's how we'll decide what we'd like to run again. And then from there, we'll run it again in a larger pot, get it through flour,

observe it. I usually like to run it two times after we made the selection just in case there was something different, if the round wasn't optimal. And that's kinda how we've been making selections over the last couple years. It's really helped us get through a decent volume and and find some good stuff.

And if for any reason I got through that and anyone listening to this has a question about specifics, I'm more than happy to go through that a little bit more and try to help people work through and make their selection process more efficient or at least show them what I'm doing. When you're putting together such a laborious process, it's no doubt that the product that comes out the other end is such, such a premium experience.

It sound you know, if I'm if I'm following you correctly, you're you're doing a, you know, multiple selections in during the first cycle. And the first cycle is is essentially just plant selection, not even about making hash. So you you grow your plants. You make your selections. You've taken your clones.

Then the winners, I'm assuming those those clones become mothers, and, and you you fill a room with those, and then it sounds like you grow that once or twice just to make sure that, you know, you're you're you're getting what you think you're getting. All of that before you actually even get to making the hash. So so this is very much about making sure that when you get into the cold room and you're making your hash, that you already have the highest quality paints to paint with, if you will.

Yeah. Just to clarify and to go a little bit deeper into that, after that initial clone selection from the first round of seed, we do run them in and those will go out to people. So after we've made that first selection and we've cloned off the original seed stock, those are now, at least past far enough to get out, and then we'll get more data from people. And that's how we'll we'll severely narrow the the herd from there.

So for instance, let's say we're getting to go through a couple or maybe a few dozen. At the end, we'll end up with, you know, a good run, would be five. You know, more than that, we have three selections at the end of that process that would really stand out. And sometimes, just because it smells really good doesn't mean it's gonna translate. So that's why after that jar test process, which could also be enhanced by a tool called the ResinDial, which, one of my friends, Simply Adam, makes.

And, that you can run if you're doing a little bit bigger of a jar test, you can run that through essentially a small bag set and then for put those in the freeze dryer and get solid numbers because I'm just visually looking to be like, oh, this one looks the best off of just this first run, where that tool, the resin dial, can give you solid numbers to go off of. And I just haven't made it there because the scale of what we're doing is, doesn't make sense for me at this point.

If we were selecting plants outside from seed and had much more material to work with, that would be something I'd wanna incorporate. Mhmm. So, let's break your process out a little bit into some of those attributes that we're looking for that makes good hash. So, you you know, at the top, we were talking about flavor, and and obviously, most people would put that at the top. And, I would assume that some flavors that show up in flour don't translate as well to a final product of hash.

I mean, I make hash every year, but I I'm certainly not making hash several times a year like, you and your team are. So have you experienced that there are some, profiles that hash better than others because some flavor profiles just get lost in the wash? Yeah. I think that in my experience from my environment, what I've seen, it's a lot easier for me to find stuff in, like, the chem family that washes. It seems like when that is in the parent lineage, it's a good sign that that will wash.

It's not always. It doesn't mean it's gonna be an amazing washer, but it seems like I've had really good luck when I have gone down that road and tried to hunt stuff that's in, like, the cam or some people might say that's gassy. That's where we're finding a lot of washers easily. And as of late, there's been a lot of people who have been focusing on fruity sides, and maybe that's just the filter stuff that I'm looking for.

But it seems like a lot more profiles that maybe five, six, seven, eight years ago that were harder to find washers are getting, to become more common because people have made it their their, you know, work their dedication to getting that specifically, like, lemon. I've it seems like there's been a lot more, lemony profiles lately that people have been able to, you know, select traits to get it to wash.

I think particularly in in my experience stuff that's been difficult to find as of late that I've been interested in finding is, stuff maybe in the more tropical fruit. So, like, specifically pineapple's been a really hard one for me to pin down, and then guava hasn't been the easiest either, and lime. Those are kind of those have been very evasive, and I've tried to select specific stuff that get me towards that goal, and it's just been, very, fruitless, or they'll end up turning up where

you least expect them. We we have a plant that's rounding the bend that will be harvested next year that sorry, next week that, is presenting a pineapple nose, which I didn't have that in the notes, and the parent lineage did not I did not think it would be in that realm of fruity. So it'll be interesting if it if once we get it washed and through that whole process, if it will remain pineappley or if that will will change. But it is fun when that stuff turns up where you least expect it.

You just wish you didn't have to waste all that, you know, money or effort to get there. Yeah. It's a numbers game though, man. You can't you you gotta you gotta open up a lot of beans to to find accidental magic, you know. I also like I also liked the delightful unintentional pun you gave there about not finding the tropical flavors you want and that search being fruitless. Oh, that's top shelf pun right there. So let's talk about what the flowers look

like. Right? Because, since you are going to wash them, they don't really need bag appeal because they are not going to be going into the market in bags. And and yet, there are some key attributes to how the flower looks that really do play a role in hashing. So will you talk a bit about flower structure and its importance in in getting something that dumps? Yeah. I don't think this is the the case for everything, but generally, the stuff that does better

has a more spread out structure. So what I touched on a little bit earlier was, like, that that openness creates more surface area, and having a higher coverage of trichomes in general will help, with the with the extraction side. So we do have some varieties that would probably be great for flower if that's what we're doing, you know, really putting down a lot of weight, but maybe not washing the best because they don't have that openness to easily access the the trichome heads or yeah.

Right on. You know, it, while autoflowers certainly, gather a lot of shade from from folks, it's one of the interesting attributes of autoflowers that the flowers are so open. And, you know, in in learning about autoflowers and teaching it to parent not parents, patients, about autoflowers because they're very easy to grow.

You know, I've I've grown hundreds and hundreds of autoflowers and and usually at the end of the season, we take, everything at the demo farm and we just run it all together as hash, because it's very enjoyable that way. And it startled the team when they when they ran the first round of autoflowers because they just d'omped.

And, you know, the hash was, like like, better than decent too, but it it shocked everybody because the natural open flower of that you get in most auto flowers just makes those, trichomes really accessible. And so, you know, it takes a flower that many would consider ugly and and uses it in a way that, you know, is kind of more appropriate for its expression.

So another really important thing I think we should talk about is the trending lighter color that is very popular in Hash Rosin right now. And I must admit, I'm coming at this with probably a little bit of prejudice because, I am more attuned towards temple balls and the Frenchy cannoli kind of style. And so, I was brought up believing that the the trichomes are ripe when they are starting to become amber, and I like that that stoniness buzz and, it's just how it's always been for me.

And yet the the trending in hash rosin is it for it to have more of a a creamy, you know, yellowish white color sometimes. And for me when I see that, I think, oh, these are under ripe ripe trichomes. These are these are these have missed their potential by not being allowed to go farther. And, and and some hasharos and producers I've talked to, they will they will tell me that, well, you know, some some plants are creamier

than others. Some need to get more amber than others, and it's really something that they do in response to the plant. But then there are commercial people that I know who are making larger volumes, and they're all like, no. We cut everything early, because we've got to have that that, you know, light color in the market. So, I'm asking you to kinda educate all of us because I recognize my prejudice here towards the towards the temple balls. What do you think about the lighter color trend?

Do you think that these plants are being harvested unripe and and the the it might work better, might taste better, might be a better experience if they are let to go longer? Or do you think that people are just selecting plants that finish, creamier and with less amber? As somebody who's choosing plants for this all the time, I'm guessing that you have, further insight than I do as somebody who just throws everything into temple walls.

Yeah. I think it was a a learning curve for me when, you know, initially growing for for flower and, you know, pulling things based off, amber percentage or, you know, what we were looking for with with that under scopes versus now, you know, we're looking for a cloudy stage. And indoors and outdoors or under a greenhouse, that's a little bit different of a process how we're how we're doing that.

I had forgot to mention earlier that part of that second round of selection is making sure the plant is, excuse me, harvestable in a, like, fifty five day, fifty six day window because that's what works for our our indoor setup and and cycle. And I believe that by doing that in the long run, because I'm also making seeds of these selections, for sure for indoors, that's not necessarily always the fact outside because it's not dictated by you flipping the lights to a different light cycle.

But as far as, like, what we're looking at outside, I'm I'm scoping everything and looking for that cloudy stage. And I think, yeah, because of how the the market is and people want it lighter, that's where we've gone. But I I think too you have to think about trichome ripeness and maybe flower ripeness as maybe two different things.

Because like you were saying, if you were to select or pull something for flower when you're, like, clear or cloudy, that maybe wouldn't be the full potential or the, you know, medicinal effect that you're after. But because you're discarding the flower and only smoking the glands, the the trichome heads, you're you're selecting a different part of the plant to highlight and and enjoy. So I think those are maybe you kinda gotta think about

that in a different way. And, like, I I believe French cannoli would refer to the glands as, like, grapes. You know, you're trying to, you know, pick a a perfect grape. And if that's what you're interested in is the the glands, you gotta be looking at that and not necessarily the the flower. So I'm gonna I'm gonna push you on this a little bit to get a better understanding because when I smoke flower, I'm smoking plant material with glands on them.

And then when I volatilize the, biochemicals in the oil in the resin, I inhale that. And that's the same thing that we're doing with the hash, though. Right? We're we're taking and and we're combusting it. I mean, unless we're I guess, unless we're vaping. But isn't that the same thing? What what is the what is the difference between those two experiences?

Yeah. That's a good question. I just think that the way that I'm I'm looking at it and in my perspective is that the way we would harvest for flower versus hash is is different at the current moment. I don't know if I have the best, like, scientific answer to give you. That's not the perspective or lens that I am going through. I'm just more or less saying tell you how I select, and I'm trying to think on the fly of how to maybe give you how my head is or brain is processing

this and thinking between the two. Let me let me try changing the direction of the question because I think maybe this has something to do with it. Do you select for color differently for market than you would if you were not going to market and just toking it with your friends? Like, do you do you go with the lighter colors because that's what the market wants, but but in your craftsman self, you actually think that going a little more amber is actually

a better experience overall? I'm not trying to put words in your mouth. I'm just trying to get a delineation. No. Yeah. That's that's a good question. I mean, it's been a long time since I've, ran something super long. I think when we did have a cut of GMO, I would run it, you know, seventy days versus like ninety or something. And I think that the color definitely changed, not drastically. And I think that the medicinal effect was similar, but not

not crazy. And that's just my that was just my experience. I think there's a second part of that question that I'm I'm planking on that I wanted to, answer, but, maybe it'll come to me a couple of you later, but. Alright. Well, one more question before we go to our first break. You you said that you tend to focus on plants that can be, ready for harvest in fifty six days of flower.

Do you find that you get more of certain types of trichomes in plants that are ready at fifty six days than you do in plants that are ready at seventy days, for example? I'm just guessing that you would have trichomes that are are, easier, I guess, for the plant to produce since they've got two weeks less to do it.

I'm not sure if this is due to the fact that we are running them, less time or if this is just the nature of what we've been presented from from our selections or environmental factors or or the medium or what we're feeding them. But it seems to be we're finding more of the the stringer variety somewhere in the the the greasy but not lotion. And we're not finding a lot of sandy stuff that that one's super hard for us

to find. And maybe some other folks who are letting the plant go longer are finding that their heads are responding differently. They're, getting more stable or or less. I don't think that changes a whole bunch. Like, when I'm sometimes I'll I'll test plants in week four to see if they're, you know, that lotion y type of trichome. And if I see that, I'm I'm fairly confident that that's not gonna change. So I sometimes will pull stuff in week four that I'm thinking that looks a little,

not favorable to what I'm after. So it's hard for me to say. I guess I'd have to do a side by side in front of me to be like, oh, this plant, the trichome attributes change. But, yeah, that that's just kinda what we're experiencing and seeing. Right on. Cool. Well, we're gonna go ahead and take a short break and be right back, and we're gonna talk more about choosing your genetics. You are listening to Shaping Fire, and my guest today is Hashmaker Connor Terp Wizard. And, you know, without these

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So before the break, we were talking a lot about, the types of trichomes that develop on plants that go fifty six days and and how you are hunting your own seeds to find winners that that you want to use to run hash. But let's talk for a minute about, for folks who are choosing their genetics that other people have made. Right? Because I am sure that you have got some good suggestions for things to look for when using seeds that are not yours.

So so if you would, kind of speak to this idea of of, you know, the breeders and types of strains that might have a higher ratio of hashers in them where people should look. Yeah. It seems like a few people are, like, solely hunting for stuff that washes. And it seems like there's a couple repeat genetics that seem to be used in order to, you know, have a higher probability of washing.

And I think I touched on maybe one of them on the earlier ones, and and more of these things keep coming up as time goes on. But, yeah, I I talked briefly about, like, the chem lineage and and GMO that seems to be very, popular for washability, finding those, like, sandier profiles. Also, you know, there's a Bloom Seedco seems to be the the the popular person for for washers at the moment. Seems like everyone that I know and seem to be beginning to know is running some of their gear.

As of late or, you know, they were they were running a lot of strawberry guava. That seems to be a pretty decent washer. It keeps repeating and and making itself in there. In the past, you know, Tropicana cookies, I know for a second maybe, Orange got a little bit overdone, that profile, and that seems to come in waves. You know, Superboof is a really popular version that reminds you of, like, Tangier, Tropicana kinda in that realm.

There there's a a fair amount. I would say when you're starting to go down the rabbit hole of buying seeds to maybe do a little research, those more popular ones will have more info online. And if you're seeing some, like, metric or recreational or or bigger companies run those genetics and release a lot of it, that might be a good way to be like, okay. There's probably something going on, but that's a good probability washing and doing your research on who's making it in the environment.

Because I know, for me, I like supporting more of the DEM, community when I can for, finding genetics because not only are they, you know, running unique projects that you won't find anywhere else, like, some people are doing preservation projects, some people are just, like, multiple generations of breeding their own stuff. Super unique. But it also will work outside and, depending on where your climate is, would probably last pretty good and is a generally hardy

plant. So, yeah, I'm digging. I'm trying to find as much info I can on the parent lineage when starting, and and Google's a great tip for that and and or great place to start and as well as Instagram. And then trying to do some research, and if you can, talk to the person making the seeds to figure out a little bit more about their situation, what they're growing for, where they're at, how they're making the seeds.

And I think that's maybe a great way to to start and do your research as a seed buyer to be like, okay, you know, this guy is producing the same thing I am. They're they're going for hash production. And they, you know when I was lucky enough to go to Spain, I met Doc Hayes who was hunting for a lot of line profiles. I got to smell the female of his, male that he used and experience what he was selecting for, and I knew he was already a very talented hash maker.

And we're just getting to those now, so I'm hoping that because of all the hard work and time and similar, process he does that that will translate into what we find. I find more than not, if the practices are the same, a lot of those things come a lot easier in the long run.

For the folks who are not familiar with the term DEM that Connor used, that's a dragonfly earth medicine, which a is a an environmental certification for, both the cleanliness of the cannabis product, also, not using synthetics, and and and growing in ways that are in line with, environmental stewardship. Do you think that's a do you think that's a fair way to to capsulize it, Connor? Yeah. I think that's if people are interested,

they can look more into it. There's definitely, more you can do on that go down that rabbit hole, but I think that's a great way to to sum it up and be efficient about it. Yeah. Very good. And, the the you know, there are other, environmental, certifications out there, but, in in in my experience, DEM is of a level level of elite all its own because, it's it's more than just don't use synthetics. It's a it's a whole vibe that goes along with it. And your farm is Dem

certified. Right, Connor? Correct. That's an achievement. Yeah. It took some serious work and moving out here, we had that goal in mind to to do that. So we were we looked for that prop this property to to do that. And, yeah, they do offer both indoor and out at the moment, but when we got certified, they only did,

outdoors. So our outdoor farm is certified. We grow the same way indoors and out, but we just don't have that extra we haven't had anyone come out to certify our our indoor, but the outdoor one was what we were we were, you know, going for when we moved out here. Right on. So, yeah, let's let's continue that that direction of the conversation about about the new space that you set up and then you were able to do your garden design

for Hash. You know, I'm curious. Are there any changes to your garden design or arrangement for growing plants for Hash? The only one I could think of is perhaps leaving extra wide rows so that you can cut lead quickly do the cut and freeze process instead of when you're just gonna let it hang dry and cure. Sometimes we cut a little more slowly and, you know, put them directly into bins or whatever. But but that's that's that's me just extrapolating.

So so when you design your garden, did you design anything into it specifically because you were gonna be making hash? I think I don't think I designed anything per se differently. I think, that between building one greenhouse and the next, I definitely left myself more room to work By doing one big bed and not having a lot of space on the side, it made it a little bit harder to move. So as you go, I guess that would be designed. I just I got my brain wouldn't think of

it like that. But as you go, you realize, oh, shoot. This would be done better this way or whatnot. So that this our most recent greenhouse build, there's a huge walkway in the middle. So you can put a table. And we don't like to really the the less touching of the plant, the less, you know, touching of the trichomes, the better because all that extra movement is knocking off what you've tried so hard to grow and, you know, preserve.

So we try to get our plants down in a window of, like, ideally, it'd be thirty minutes or less. An hour's okay. You know, at the end of the season when the nights are super cold, sometimes it goes a little bit longer than that, but we try to get it down as quick as possible. I'd like to figure out maybe more how to get the whole plant down at once. But, we're we're usually taking chunks out, you know, being very careful about how the jute trellis

is cut. And then, each of us are taking a stock that's manageable and working through it and and trimming off the, families mainly and then just getting the rest in in in buckets. Indoors, I think I I think we I'm trying to remember. It's been a a few years now since I've grown for flower, but I feel like when I was doing that, the trim up method had changed a little bit from how we, how much we were cleaning up on one

versus the other. And I I can't remember for the life of me if it was I was leaving more for flower or less, but, if it was a more recent transition, I'm sure I would have been able to to touch on that a little bit more. I know that because of the Dem certification and your personal interest that that, you know, you're growing into living soil and you're using organic amendments and and all of the kind of regenerative, minded cultivation.

I'm curious if you have the experience to speak to though, if you've noticed any difference in wash yield or quality when you use organic living soil versus salt based nutrients? I'm not sure if you had a bottle period in your life that to speak to this or not. I did, but unfortunately, I didn't I wasn't washing much during that period.

The it was more of a favorable flower market at that time and because of, you know, it takes a little bit of time to develop a, group of patients or clientele or however you wanna think about that that are searching for either hash or flower, and those are two different type of of people. Sure it is.

So, yeah, I don't have side by side, but from what I've seen and and tried, I know that there you can make great hash from synthetic, but what speaks to me is to be able to grow in living soil, regenerative and, environments. And I personally think that our best resin comes out of our greenhouse. There's just something to growing under the sun and letting the plants go through the season. We don't do any light depths or really

much electricity out there. I'll run a couple of fans in our smaller greenhouse because there's not a lot of clearance. But I I like to really let the plants just experience the season. I think you get some great results out of that. And, the resin seems to be more stable from I like to keep numbers as far as, like, tracking our wash results, and, they're always higher outside without a doubt. We just

washed, like, two weeks ago. I hit the highest number I I have indoors, which is really cool because it was a strain I made, which is great in speaking volume to what we're doing with the selections. And that was a creme de gruppaea to sour diesel, and the creme de gruppaea was papaya to grape cream cake. So we made the papaya to grape cream cake cross and then cross with the sour diesel, and that hit 6% indoors in the wash numbers. And then outside, our best wash was also

another strain we made. And last year, we hit 7%, and that was a another sour cross, and that was, tripaya to sour, which we were calling sour tripaya. So I think there's something to it for us. We're seeing the numbers. The resin quality is stable. Things are washing. People are I think you're getting a more complex profile. There's things that aren't present and I don't think achievable with our setup indoors

versus outside. You're just getting something that's having a wider array of food to ingest in a spectrum of light that is not replicable, for us indoors. Yeah. I certainly, you're preaching to the choir here on Shaping Fire about the the the the improvements and power of growing under sun versus indoor. I mean, certainly, I have, enjoyed and grown excellent stuff indoors, but that wide, wide terpene profile that comes from the sun

is is just delightful. And, you know, whenever possible, it's it's really nice to be able to work with, nature, in tune with nature instead of trying to dominate nature to to give us what we want out of it. So I wanna circle back around to the the point of at which that you harvest. So, if if we know that you're not looking for the amberness that you did when you were growing for flower, and we know that the market encourages you to cut when they are more cloudy.

Are you, is that what you're looking for, a percentage of cloud before you cut, or is there more to it? I can imagine there may be a, you know, you deciding the terpene component is matured well enough as well. But I'm I'm looking very specifically what are the boxes that you personally need to check when you decide, okay, tomorrow is the day. I like to scope multiple parts of the plant because I feel like the doneness from the top colas to the bottom, can be different.

So I want as much cloudiness from both of them as possible. So, yeah, it it's it's it is a tricky window because it seems like some plants can go through that faster than others. And there there are plants too that we'll test out and that just, like, maybe are not as receptive to being outside. And I'll be like, okay. This one's gotta go. Maybe it's not as cloudy as I want, but if we continue to go, like, this plant isn't faring well with the season.

And if we let it go too longer, it might be all for all for loss and go into the compost. So sometimes you do have to make those hard calls and cut them out even before they're through, but that's that's part of doing this is finding stuff. And in the long run, that's only gonna make, your selections better. And and hopefully, if you're you're making seeds, that will keep those traits and selections,

going forward. So if you're pulling out the crap that's not working for your end of season pressures or whatever pressures you're experiencing, that that will have a trickle down effect in further generation. I'm gonna push you for a little bit more quantification there. There is a rule of thumb when growing flower that, you know, to harvest when 20% of your trichomes are showing some amber. You know, certainly that can be debate debated, but, you know, it is a common rule of thumb.

What is your rule of thumb when or or or mark box that you have to check when when you are determining if enough of them are cloudy? Are you looking for 20% cloudy? Or because we're not talking amber, are you actually, oh, I I actually want them to be, like, 80% cloudy, and maybe the first ones might be starting to be amber? Like, where in that range? What are you really looking for when you scope them? Yeah. I don't think I have a specific

percentage I'm looking for. I'm just looking for majority cloudy. If we're starting to get into amber, that's that's fine. I just don't wanna be pushing a large percentage. I'm not afraid of darker hash. Like, there's definitely some type of, if I had swatches in front of me, there would be a color that I would be like, this is not acceptable. This is where we draw the line. But we do have batches that and it tends to be more of like the purple flower varieties that come out darker,

and that's totally fine. They don't all have to be blonde. But, yeah, when I'm when I'm trying to, pull and and figure out that ideal harvest date, I'm looking for I don't want a majority clear. Obviously, we've talked about I don't want majority amber. So I'm looking for that sweet spot where all, if not most, are cloudy. And a little bit of either or is fine, but the majority need to be in that that cloudy realm. There we go, dude. Thank you. Thank you for letting me push you. You're

welcome. I I really needed I knew there were people listening going, dude, push him. Get get get get something that we can really work with, and and now we have actionable information. Right? We want, like, you know, like, you know, seventy, eighty percent or more cloudy, under 5% amber, boom, go. Like, people with that, people can then add their intuition. But but now now you've really, like, put a line in the sand. So so thanks, Connor. Okay, Rad. Sorry. I took a little extra

pushing to get what you were, after. Right right on. Right on. So, you know, have you noticed that, or or do you add any kind of soil amendment or biostimulant or anything at all to your, to your substrate to that that you believe enhances the trichome quality? I mean, we we all we all seek to grow the most thriving plants we can, and and and, you know, there's there's as many different ways to do that as there are cultivators.

But specifically, growing for trichomes when you are a trichome farmer, is there anything where you're like, oh, I always add this because it makes the hash because it makes the trichomes more whatever. Well, I don't know if this because we've been doing a few things consistently. We've changed up a cute a few things every year. And I'm finding, in general, the more diversity you can give, the wider, you know, the more food at the table for these plants to choose from, I think that relates to

the complexity of the profile. So I do like to use a lot of alpaca manure. There's a farm not too far from me, and we've been using that, most years that we've been out here. I think the first year I didn't know her, yet and wasn't looking for that. And we were primarily using worm castings, and then when we figured out we had an abundance of worms for where we're at, we were kind of backed off. And I was like, okay. Let's see if we can get, another source of manure that's readily available.

And, I do like using planting some dynamic accumulators and turning those into JLFs, JADAM liquid fertilizer. And or, you know, chop and dropping them. So we've been experimenting with different things like that. Mainly with nettles, steamed nettle Mhmm. And comfrey and yarrow. Those are all super accessible for us.

And then on the flower side, we've the last few years I've been trying to source pawpaws, which is a fruit that is, a regional fruit, and it's kind of like a version of a tropical fruit that grows here in Michigan. So I've been trying to source, clean fruit to make end of season, JADAM liquid fertilizers to feed the plants. So paw paws, I finally found a patch last year. This will be the first year we're using those. And then, I was able to find some

some pears. So we've used, blackberries in the past. That those are in abundance at our property. And I think I've used another fruit that's escaping me at the moment. But, yeah, I like to I like to try to use different liquid fertilizers. And and in past seasons too, we've used, the teas that, Josh and Kelly of Dragonfly Earth Medicine made.

And this year, we're trying a new tea recipe that's been very seems to be more geared towards trichome production indoors, so I'm interested to see how that works outside. And that's kind of it's just like a compost tea with a couple extra things. We're we're essentially using this this company called Tea Labs Recipe. If anyone's interested in looking, we're pretty much following that to the t. No, no pun intended, but I got I got another one in.

And, Tea Labs I'm gonna I'm gonna do jump on with your Tea Lab, plug too. Luke there does a great job. I'm using his stuff again this year as well and, really like how how clean it all works. Yeah. It seems to be pretty easy to understand. I think anyone with a basic, understanding of how to put some things together and just following directions, I think it'd be great for for anyone of any skill level and especially for the folks who are used

to using bottles. If you're trying to, like, grasp this side of things where there's, at least for me, getting into switching from cocoa to to soil, when we did that, it was like, man, this was such a hard thing to grasp. And and I, it's nice when it's an easy recipe laid out and they make it easy for you.

So those guys have been great. And, yeah, we're we're we're really excited to see the results and and compare from last year's numbers and see, what what that, new recipe does for us, outdoors, because it's been so great for us indoors. So, last question before we go to our second

break. You know, when when you and I were talking, kind of prepping for our discussion today, we were talking about garden efficiencies, things that that you were able to do along the way that that reassured you that you're going in the right direction. And the one that we talked about on the phone was the jar test to let you know, you know, if you're getting good yield from the plant.

I wondered if you thought of any more, garden efficiencies like that or or green flags that you look for in your garden as the growing cycle is going where you're all like, okay. I got this good green flag at this stage. Okay. I got this good green flag at that stage. Obviously, the jar test is way at the end. Right? But I but but I wanted to hear what your green flags were, a few of them, during the growing process that that reassures you that that you're running your game properly.

I mean, I think for anyone, it's overall health of the plant. I I don't think that's, like, a a great nugget that I'm giving anyone. I think the first thing that came to mind when you're saying that, it's not answering directly your question, but we decided to get soil tests this year to see how things have been going. And before we moved into the house, when I got the the keys enclosed on the property, We spent the first weekend or something building where I

make seeds. We put a whole hugel culture in. So it was really cool to test all those. And this was a great, you know, sign that things are going well because the amount of organic material that's been building up in the soil based on the test results is dramatically different from every greenhouse we put in. So last year, we put in one that was very close to planting season. And then we put in another one that same year that was closer to the end of winter. And then we had

the previous year we put one in. And then almost five summers ago, we put in that first one. And it is I have over 20% in the one that we put in first and then it goes down and down. And you could see it in the soil samples too because we have sandy soil, so it was really quite a difference. So that was a major green,

flag. And I think another thing that came to mind when you asked this question, I think I touched on it earlier, was how we've been going down the line with our seeds and starting to see that some of the selections that we've found in our seeds, and not that we're hunting crazy larger populations. Some like the star fruit, that creme de grepay, the sourdeesa, we only hunted 12 seeds and found a really nice,

selection. Same with that sour trapaya. So it's those kind of things, I guess, or what I think of that are, like, reassuring that we're going down the right path. I'm not exactly sure that's what you were looking for answer wise, but that's what I thought of when you were asking that question. Yeah. Well, for for start for starting out that you didn't really have any, you gave two really good ones. So, yeah, we'll call that we'll call that a win.

So Okay. Yeah. Right on. So, so let's go ahead and and take our second short break, and then we'll be back in talking a little bit more about, after harvest. We're gonna take that short break and be right back. You are listening to shaping fire, and my guest today is Hashmaker, Connor Turp Wizard. This message is for folks who grow cannabis. I'm talking to home growers, patients, and commercial

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So Connor, here at the end here, we're gonna talk about a few things that, are to be considered after and during the the harvesting process. But one question that I'm asked regularly by folks who are moving into Hash is how yield numbers are calculated. What's the wash number? And for those of us who have done this many times, the the math is is

very basic. But but will you walk it walk us through it for folks, who are listening because they're excited about making their own hash for the first time? Yeah. So we have three numbers we calculate. There's the wash number. There's return from rosin to hash and then to to rosin number. So the way those are calculated, you have to have a fresh frozen number. So or if you're doing it dry, that works too. It doesn't doesn't really matter if it's dry or wet, but this is how you

calculate it. So you get that weight of the material, and then you wash it, you know, dry the the the trichomes, and then you weigh that. And you're dividing your fresh frozen by the the hash, so a bigger number by smaller, and then you get a percentage, and that's how that's calculated. So then when you press your rosin, we'll take the hash divided by rosin, and that's the return percentage. We're seeing a a good number for us is in

the the eighties. Nineties is very high, and then as you go lower, it's there means that that's like a lower quality head. And then finally, you have your terrazzan number. So that is divided, you know, the larger number of fresh frozen to terrazzan, and that will give you that percentage. So when people are using these terms like this washed this much, this was this much to hash, most people don't say the return. That's more, a more, nuanced thing that not that many

people talk about. It's not as important. But, just to show, like, the quality of the the trichome head and and how much more heads you had than stalks or any other stuff in that dried hash, contaminant per se. So, yeah, that that's how that's calculated, and, I think there's some folks out there, and I've I've heard this, and that don't calculate it, and it'll be like, oh, a really good wash. They'll be like, this is 5% or 7%, and then not actually do the math.

And that doesn't really mean anything without the numbers. So Yeah. For anyone starting, that's that's how that's all, calculated. So I have a question since I don't work with, frozen material here at my house. You mentioned that you you either take the the dried cured material or the fresh frozen material, and you, then you do your math comparing that to the the dried, trichome heads that you have removed from the plant.

I'm curious if when you do fresh frozen, does it do you think it skews the numbers a little bit because the plant is frozen and perhaps has got additional weight from ambient water freezing and attaching itself to the plant? I guess the skewing of the numbers would be a perspective thing in the time of when you were doing this in, you know, a time period. Because I feel like this is just what I'm used to and and what seems to be the the common thing.

So for me, washing so little of, dry material, it would seem wild to me if someone gave me numbers of dried material because they're gonna be dramatically different, like fresh frozen materials and the single percentages where I've heard dry can be, you know, in in the tens or, you know, twenty, thirty, something like that. So for me, that that's normal from to look at it. But I could see how the extra water weight would skew it if you were looking at it from the other side.

Yeah. Anyway, weird specific question, but I've I've always wondered about that. I'm all like, man, frozen doesn't get a get doesn't get a fair shake when it comes to yield be when compared to dry because it with the extra water. But but yeah. So I guess that I guess the the point of that is is it is it's, it's really hard to compare fresh frozen yield numbers to to dry yield numbers because the process is so different.

Yeah. I don't think you you accurately can because I'm under from the people who I've talked that have even done partial dries, it will kind of, change how the trichome will react. So I've I've had people tell me that they've, I don't know how common this is these days or maybe it is for some people, but I don't really hear people talking about it, where you do a few day dry and then you freeze it and wash it because the

head becomes more durable. So strains that typically wouldn't wash would wash better, but then those numbers are skewed. So you can't really compare those two. I would say if you're gonna do one, use those numbers to compare. And then if you're gonna do the other, use that. But don't don't try to mix it because you're not gonna get it it's not an easy thing to do side by side.

Right on. You mentioned, during when we were talking about harvesting, that you and your team try to touch the plants as little as possible and are are very careful with your trellis, do you have any other recommendations for like like, for example, what do you after you chop and you're pulling off in sections, what do you like to put your plants into? Like like, just walk us through the the steps from the cut, to it being in the freezer.

Yeah. Well, if I was approaching how to teach someone how to do this, I would say start with a section that's manageable, because if you start getting crazy and there's a bunch of extra limbs on it and you get too big, then you're gonna have stuff bumping together and the potential loss for for trichomes. So maybe somewhere that's like from your elbow to the, point of your, you know, where your middle finger is. That might be too big for some people, so you just kinda gotta assess

that. And then you wanna be grabbing the stalk, you don't wanna be touching any of the flowers. And from there, you're removing any leaves that don't have trichome coverage or have any damage. I wouldn't be chopping the tips off of plants because then you're opening up places for Any kind of pathogen to get into the stem? I was thinking more of, like, chlorophyll. Oh. To get into the to water. I see. Did you guys come out of the plant? Put potentially.

Because we've been chopping as close to the stalk as possible and and removing the the leaf where it connects the stem. Mhmm. That doesn't seem to cause issues. But I don't I don't like to trim the tips off of the leaves because they've been damaged or doesn't have trichome coverage. If they have trichomes and it's a healthy leaf, we leave it on. And then you're trying to you're not trying to chop the flower in

half by any means. There's natural ways that the flower forms, and you're trying to cut it off in a way that is gentle and makes sense for how the plant's morphology is. So those are some things to think about. And I would say general rule of thumb is you're trying to keep it about, if you can, if it makes sense and you're not damaging the flower, if you can get it down about the size of your thumb knuckle up to tip, that would be a good size.

And what we like to put it in is we use plastic totes that fit really well in our freezers and then use a bag, in the tote. I've found that if you just use the bag, what could happen is there can be some shuffling and potential trichome loss. So if you have it in that, form, that solid form, you can keep it a little bit less jostled. And that's, like, unfortunate one thing that I haven't really found a good solution for that's still

kind of like a single use plastic. If I've considered going to just boxes, but I still I haven't found that that's, like, really any better, like a plastic box than cleaning it every time. The the the turkey bag or tray liner, oven liner seems to be, a a good solution at this point. Yeah. We need, we need a we need a reusable or naturally produced sustainable solution for that eventually. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Do you do you bother trimming plants, in advance of, washing them?

I don't really like to do much disturbance after. So we've only done, like we do two, cleanups and flower. Inside, it's really easy, right? Because you're like, oh, this is day one, this is day whatever outside. It's just like, okay, one of the plants starting to flip. Let's get a little bit more airflow in there. Generally, you know, on the first, maybe like quarter of plants going to do a cleanup. And then based off when those plants start, I try to, like, set a reminder in my calendar.

Like, alright. Two, three weeks from now, probably closer to three. If it was inside, it'd be day one. Day 21 is when I like to clean up. And that's just the numbers that work well for me. I don't wanna disturb them that late in, flower. I saw someone make a post about that where they're cleaning up, and there were some, Hashmakers that I respect that made some comments on Instagram about how they wouldn't do that.

They didn't necessarily go too far into it, but I feel like there's a reason and those guys have a lot more experience and knowledge than I do. So, not that I was going to do that, but I had thought about what you had said to do, an end of cleanup. And I was like, okay. These guys have probably seen material that's had that happen. And, it wasn't probably favorable or what they expected. So we're we're gonna keep with the the two cleanups in flower and just be be sufficient and happy with that.

Yeah. Right on. I buy that. I would love to hear their their reasoning too. The only reasoning I ever heard to to do the cleanup, before week six is, because in those last two weeks, reaching around to, you know, to to clean them up or remove things or, you're just you're you're bound to touch a lot more flowers. And and anybody who I know who's been serious about it says, you know, almost like slaps my hand, stop touching

anything. You know? Like like, we we don't want your, you know, your your human skin oil on my plant. You know? Yeah. Anytime that I'm, like, trying to smell a live plant, I'll see if I can find some of those, like, under canopy less developed buds and, like, go off of that and, like, fully remove it so that, you know, you can, like, really, you know, smoosh the crap out of it and smell

it and be like, okay. I'm not trying to take a or touch a Top Cola that's, you know, the the prime real estate on the plant and and, you know, muck that up. Yeah. So so I wanna finish off, the episode, with this talking a little bit about the transition from being a hashmaker that's growing other people's genetics to, being a hash maker who is developing your

own. And, you know, a a a good part of what we've been talking about today has been folks who are new to growing for hash because people who are already growing for hash, well, they they already have a

lot of their skills locked down. But this next part, this is this is kind of, you know, a a milestone for a lot of folks is that they, you know, they learn how to make hash, and then they learn how to press it, and, you know, they've then they learn the the genetics from, you know, various folks and different varieties that they really like and, you know, but but there comes a point when my friends go, well,

shit. What I want isn't on the market, and I need to make it for myself either because they want attributes that they can't find in in you know, available out there or b, you know, there is certainly a lot of respect with, you know, making your own hash from your own varieties that you grow yourself, and that's that's pretty

badass, you know. And so just talk to you for to us a little bit about what caused you to make the choice to start developing your genetics for growing what you wanted for your own hash and the the positive attributes. And if there were any negative attributes, I'd love to hear that. Just give us a little snapshot of that transition for you for folks who are who are getting ready to do that.

Yeah. So I think when I was starting this, so we moved from a property that I had a garden to a property where I didn't have a garden, and we were already midsummer. So for me, it was preservation and the love for the plants that I had spent all this time selecting because I had been growing for a few years out here. I was like, oh, man. I really love these plants and now I'm gonna have to sell my house to move into this next house. So I won't have a garden. I need this

time to build out. So for me, it was like, okay, I can preserve these because I don't have the seeds of it anymore and then make a new Variety from a male that I found that was very interesting and called to me so I took all my favorite hash plants and put them outside and you know took that mail that I found the grape cream cake and hit all my favorite plants and that was kind of the the start of it and every season I've found, you know, in between seasons plants

and and that have called to me in one way or another based on how the plant is expressing itself or what I've seen from the potential from another person or really, like, wanting to preserve or add another twist on the thing. So the initial intent was to preserve what I had and from there, it's gone and

been like, okay. I really like this expression that this male is giving me either from seeing what the females do most of the time that's the case or just being like, man, this this male is, like, standing out. Like, it's growing really nice. Like, it's super vigorous. It has, like, a crazy stem rub just something maybe a combination of all those that's just what speaks to me and then You know selecting females in a certain way you're you're pulling traits that you're drawn to.

And I think if you keep doing that, inevitably, you know, even if you're just making f ones, which that's what I've been doing at this point, that you're finding that those traits can come up especially if they're those super dominant ones that you're seeing present themselves over a larger population, so my my traits that I've been after beyond hash are like I want super vigorous plants that flower in a a quick time frame and hopefully are

putting on a bunch of weight. And this year, we're trying to put more of those out so that that those traits continue on in in future lineage. And it seems to be that's that's what I've seen in the last few years, so we'll see what happens with this, this next project. I like how it happened so very naturally. Right? You didn't you didn't decide, that you needed that you wanted to go

in that direction. You realized you needed to go in that direction so that you could preserve, the work that you had already done. Do you find this is I don't know. This seems like a dumb question, but I really do wanna know the answer. Do you find it more satisfying to be working with the plants that you yourself have made the genetics for versus using stuff that other people have

grown? I I can see where in the same way that I prefer to grow to smoke flower that I have grown myself, I can imagine that that making hash from plants that you are intimate with would also give an experience like that. Yeah. Don't get me wrong. I'm super happy, like, with finding stellar selections from other people. That's great. I I love being able to come back to

that person. Either they're, like, share what we found, like, with a jar or, like, you know, in in wilder situations, like, entering into a competition and being, like, this this won. But for me, moving forward, I'd really like to enter more of my stuff that I made into competitions and see how it, how it fares. And, that's kind of the next

evolution of it, right? Like, okay, cool. I saw the potential in this female and I saw the potential in this male and I put them together and it's showing that either it works or it doesn't and thankfully most times it has worked. There's been a couple times, a few times where it's been like, alright, maybe the the sum of the total of the these two wasn't as great as the how they were individually but that's just kinda the game of of putting, you know, plants together sometimes.

It doesn't always come out the way you expect for better or for worse. So I'm hoping, as this year unfolds that the the female, population from the male we selected, we can start entering into some things and hopefully it does well. I've got really high hopes for it and then that would kinda catapult maybe this, year's interest in the new line that we are, about to put outside. Yeah. There's no doubt. Like, doing well in a competition, really supports people in their marketing of the

genetics. Sometimes I think that it's it's actually the the reason why people do it. As you and I have discussed before, and and we won't get into it much here, the whole contest scene is its is its own kind of monster with with with goods and bads in it. And, but there there's no doubt that placing will definitely, increase the the demand for your for your genetics.

Do you think that developing one's own genetics with names that judges have not heard before, do you think that that, makes winning more difficult, or do you think it it it creates interest and curiosity in people? Well, I don't have too much experience with competing in competitions that aren't blind, so I don't have the best dataset to answer that. I think a name can really make or break a strain, as far as, like, in the long run or just general curiosity.

But if you name it something wacky and it wins, I think you're gonna, like, have interest in it regardless. I don't I don't know. You know, a name is what you make of it or what you, like, have give perception. So, in some respects, giving it a great name will be super helpful. But, on the other side, I don't know entirely how much it matters unless it's just a completely negative name to begin with. Yeah. Right on. Right on.

Well, Connor, thank you so much for joining me on Shaping Fire today to talk a bit about this this very specific kind of growing, growing for for making hash rosin. It is it is clearly an area that is blowing up and is creating all this joy in folks, and it's it's amazing to watch our our, you know, our interest, our hobby, our love expand as more people get involved. And, you know, you, you bring a unique perspective to it that I find very relaxed and even soothing to

hear you talk about it. So so thanks for, spending your time and sharing your experience and and good nature with us, so we can we can, you know, learn from your experience. Yeah. Thanks again for having me. And if, like, I think I mentioned it earlier, if anyone who took the time to listen to this and got this far has any questions, just reach out. I'm more than happy to answer. You know, you can email us on our website or reach out through Instagram. I think I'd be a little quicker to respond

to Instagram. But, yeah, I'm more than happy to explain things and and get you pointed in the right direction. If I can't answer that question, I'll point you in the direction that hopefully someone can. Fabulous. Well, dear listener, if you would like to reach out to Connor or just follow along and, see what he is working on and, keep up on all of his award winning, you can do so that on Instagram and

that's at, terp wizard. So it's terp underscore wizard underscore two point o. And the point is, you know, just a period. So it's terp underscore wizard underscore two period zero as Instagram. And their website is plantmagichomestead.com. And, that's where you can pick up all sorts of interesting medicinal items on their website as well as genetics that come out of out of his garden.

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Shaping Fire. I've been your host, Shango Los.