Special Edition: MAKERS: Keep Going – What Being a Man Means Today

for conversations about d EI in your own organization. Now, I want to give a special thanks to the one Maker's Conference sponsors, PNG, Price, Waterhouse, Cooper's and official wellness sponsor Lulu Lemon. Now we launched the Seneca Women podcast Network about a year ago with founding partner p ANDNG and I Heart Radio with the goal of amplifying the voices of women around the world. You probably know that podcasting is a fast growing industry, with over of podcast

listeners being women. But what you may not know is that only tw of top podcasts are hosted by women. We want to change that, so we're launching dozens of women focused and women led podcasts. So if you have a show or you want to collaborate on a show, reach out to us at info at Seneca Women dot com. Now today we're going to be talking about masculinity and how false narratives about masculinity can have a negative impact

on our daily lives and in the workplace. We're going to hear an excerpt of a fascinating conversation between Doug m Off, the second Gentleman of the United States, that is, the husband of Vice President Kamala Harris, and Justin Baldoni, author, filmmaker and co founder of Wayfarer Studios. Their discussion took place at the recent Makers Conference. After the excerpt, I'll be talking today with our special guest, Mark Pritchard, chief brand Officer for PNG. Over the years, we have been

thrilled to work with Mark on game changing projects. He's going to give us his perspective on masculinity and some practical suggestions for the workplace. But first let's listen to Justin Baldoni and Doug m Off on masculinity. But I want to jump in real quick just a masculinity because obviously I just wrote wrote a book about it, I'm thinking a lot about it, and I just want to ask you, has there, just has there ever been a moment where, because of our conditioning as men, sometimes we

can just fall into learned behavior. Right. We've all been socialized um to think that we got to be the providers, that we got to be the center of attention. Right. These are all things that that we're not born with. We're taught this stuff. Is there a moment where you just had to shed all that stuff and be like, Okay, you know, I was a super successful entertainment lawyer, like I was the king of the household, and now I've married this badass, powerful woman and holy crap, she's the

vice president. I'm maybe your ego might have told you something like I'm not as important. I don't. I'm just curious, did you wrestle with anything on this journey. It's such a great point and it's such a great thing to be talking about, and it's something I've thought about, especially in getting ready to talk to you. And it's it's, you know, this whole thing about you know, manliness, and you know what it means to be a man. I mean,

what is strength? It's to me, it's strong to show someone you love them and show someone you will protect them and provide for them, and it's okay to show it. And it's but that doesn't mean you're weak. I think that means you're strong. You know, you don't have to talk tough to be tough. And so it's kind of this didn't just for me. I'm a very healthy ego. I'm confident I was successful and you know, I no,

I don't lack for any of that. But it's, Um, I'm always curious at at men who have to, you know, stump their chest to to show how big they are. That's pretty small to me. Um, you gotta be vulnerable, you gotta you gotta be willing to let people see you who you are, UM, so they can trust you, so they know you've you, you have their back, and you're gonna be there for them. And that's kind of how I rolled. That's how I've always rolled, and it

just didn't happen because I met Karla Harris. It was really uh, you know, put put into my blood and soul by my father and my mother who were Mom's a super strong woman, competitive athlete, you know, she was really just showed me what a strong woman could be.

And then my dad, who just worked his tush off, traveled the world, was a woman shoe designer, so he was in a field of art and yet he was one of the strongest, toughest, most self actualized men I know, and you know taught me so much, including the value of hard work and what makes you you know, part of what makes you who you are is what you can do for your family, not just by money though, by love and by care and by um you know,

being there. What a fascinating conversation. And I am so delighted to welcome our special guests today, Mark Pritchard, Chief brand Officer for PNG. Mark, thanks so much for joining us. Thank you for having me Kim. So, why is it important that we eliminate these outdated notions of masculinity that they were just referring to, including in the workplace. Well, the outdated notions of masculinity just don't serve us well anymore.

And you know, one of the most outdated one is this strong, silent type, which which admittedly, you know, I really grew up admiring and respecting and thinking that's what it was all about. And and the problem is is that that strong silent type, um, it is useful for some situations, but in other situations, if it's the only notion of masculinity, then it can lead to unhealthy behavior.

It can lead to this feeling of of as a man, you need to be the dominant one, the one who's in power, the one who's in charge, the one who who really needs to take over everything and who has to always have the loudest voice. And um, and uh you know one of the one of the worst ones, which is want the one who can't ever stop and ask for directions when they're lost. So you know, the that that notion though at its you know, at it's at best which I just described, it can be more

of a domineering um situation. You know, at the minimum, if it squelches the ability for others to be able to contribute and it doesn't lead a team, and it worse, it can lead to very unhealthy behavior. It can lead to this this outsized and overcharged expectation as to what, um, what you need to do as a man and what men need to do, and that that can lead to mental health problems. Um. But it also can unfortunately lead to bullying and harassment and other and other things that

are even worse. So you know, um, the new definition of masculinity is to be a real man, is to be one who is who is vulnerable, who shows a full range of emotions like every other human um and and to be human and humane and to love and to care and to trust. That notion just brings out the best in everyone, not the least of which is the men who choose to to follow that notion have a much more fulfilling life. So that sounds like the real definition of masculinity. And when we see the workplace,

how do we bring that definition to the workplace. How do we ensure that our leaders are encouraging that definition of masculinity. What's really important in the workplace is to take the time to really recognize biases. And we and we all grow up with with bias. I mean, every

human on the planet has bias. And one of those biases are around these notions of what a man is about and and what what a woman is about and and so one of the things that is important to do in the workplace, and one of the things that we do is we just we have we have training. We have training on gender bias, and and we have conversations and we discuss what the expectations should be, and our leaders express the expectations of what true equality is about.

At the you know, at the end of the day, we we aspire to live in an equal world, and that equality means equal voices, equal pay, equal contributions, equal roles. And and when when when things are equal in the workplace, you get better results and and you get a far more fulfilling work environment. So really it's incumbent upon leadership to just express those expectations and then when they see, when when anyone sees behavior that is inconsistent with those expectations,

call it out. It's not enough to just stand by and and not do anything. And when you see behavior that that is inconsistent that that that demonstrates either any kind of bullying, harassment, or or even talking over people, call it out, call it out and say you know that that's not right. Um. That starts to then change the environment of the workforces. So where do you have a really truly productive and healthy workplace where everyone contributes well.

That tone at the top that you're talking about is so so key, um, And to see leaders do that, I think makes a huge, huge difference in workplace culture. The other thing that you do so well and we're so grateful for, is how you use your advertising as a force for good and so how can companies bring

this message to the wider world. You know, every company that does any kind of advertising or even communications, which is pretty much every company has has the opportunity to use their voice as a force for good for gender equality. And you know, we're the world's largest advertiser, or often on the world's largest advertiser. And what we recognize is

that advertising affects people every day. The images that are in advertising really embed into people's minds and create maray's and those memories then form bias and and that because what what what you're seeing is how people are portrayed, and how they're portrayed can lead to either a stereotypical portrayal or denegrating or diminishing portrayal, or it can be an accurate portrayal. Our job is to have accurate portrayals,

so never stereotyping, never diminishing, never denigrating. So just fundamentally job want is to make sure all of our advertising accurately portrays women and girls of all intersectionalities. When that happens, you can start to eliminate bias just through the everyday images that you see. And then periodically what you can do and what we do is we we try to use our voice, use our voice to shine the light on bias or to bring to light an issue that

needs to be addressed. For example, every many people are familiar with always like a girl. That literally changed the meaning of that phrase that is generally perceived as a that is that is communicated as as an insult um. And we change the meaning of that phrase to mean amazing things versus versus something that's insulting, and people now think about it as as as a positive phrase um.

And then there's several other things that we've done with with our different brands that just shine to light on bias, shining to light on notions of of of masculinity. Even where we did this with Gillette, we believe where we were focused on the best men can be as be a man who is who is a role model for equality and uh. And when you do that, then people

start having conversations. And when those conversations then lead to understanding and empathy and that attitude change and then eventually what what happens is equality and and these these notions of masculinity of what a real man is, they start to become the norm. And that's what we're seeking. Well, we want to thank you for that. Obviously, today we are living in a media storm um and advertising and media are so integrated into every part of our life.

And so the idea that you could use your force for good uh and as you said, accurately portray the full range of emotion of men and women, the full range of roles is so critical, and we see other companies are taking the queue from you, so we really thank you for that, you bet, and we'll keep going. Thank you Mark for joining us. I get so inspired whenever I talk with Mark Pritchard, and what great insights

we heard from Doug m Off and Justin Baldoni. So the next step is how to bring these ideas to the workplace to address notions of masculinity and equality. Here are three questions to ask yourself. First, do you recognize your own biases? Everybody has them, but have you checked your own thinking to make sure you're not seeing men and women in limiting ways? Two? Are you setting expectations

for correct behavior in the workplace? Are you calling out bad behavior so that you can create a healthy environment where everyone contributes. And Finally, does your company's advertising send the right message, does it accurately portray women and men? And can it be used as a force for good? Does your advertising and communication strategy ignite the conversation that

leads to empathy and equality. Thanks so much for joining us, and tune in next Wednesday for another amazing maker's conversation about how we can all contribute to making progress in the workplace. You're listening to Seneca's Conversations on Power and Purpose brought to you by the Seneca Women podcast Network and I Heart Radio with support from founding partner p And Listen to Seneca's Conversations on Power and Purpose on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you

get your podcasts. For more information on Seneca Women, follow us on social media or visit our website at Seneca Women dot com. H M HM