You're listening to the Savage Lovecast, Dan Savage's sex and relationship show for grown-ups. If you're under 18, get out of here, young'un. If you're stuck in a relationship quandary Or if you're looking for sexual harmony A couple of quick things, a few items of interest I wanted to share with you briefly before we start this week's show. Thing number one, science confirms something your gay friends have always known.
Sex is not just for reproduction. Scientists studying bonobos and chimps, our closest living primate relatives, report that most of the sex bonobos and chimps have most of the time is for fun. They have sex to experience pleasure, to cement social bonds, to reduce stress, and to resolve conflicts.
Make up sex, not just a human thing, as it turns out. Extrapolating from our sexual behavior and the sexual behavior of bonobos and chimps, species we split from somewhere between six and 10 million years ago, scientists believe. They theorize that our shared common ancestors also fucked around mostly for fun. This, of course, is my favorite kind of science, not just a study that confirms one of my priors, but a study that confirms what may be my oldest prior.
Sex is for fun. That was something I realized when I was a teenager and straight people were telling me that being gay was wrong because sex was about reproduction. Sex was about making babies, but those same straight people. We're all taking birth control pills and using condoms and diaphragms and getting vasectomies in a desperate effort to avoid making babies while they had their fun. But this isn't just a study that confirms...
One of my cherished priors. It's also one of those studies that confirms the obvious. And those are always fun. Link in the show notes. Thing number two. Gun violence is the leading cause of death among children in Texas. There have been hundreds of shootings in Texas schools since 1970, including the murder. in 2022 of 19 students at the Robb Elementary School in Uvalde, Texas. So authorities in Texas are taking a stand for child safety and banning Mickey Mouse hats.
Last week, GOP state legislators introduced and Texas Governor Greg Abbott, also, of course, a Republican, signaled his support for the Furries Act. That is the... forbidding unlawful representation of role-playing in Education Act furries, which would make it a crime for students to engage in non-human behaviors in public and private schools.
The prohibited behaviors include but are not limited to meowing, barking, hissing, wearing tails, collars, or animal ears. So again, no more Mickey Mouse hats in Texas schools. Also banned licking oneself in a... quote, grooming manner. The proposed law also bans, because of course it does, putting litter boxes in classrooms, which right-wing conspiracy theorists insist schools have been doing for kids who identify as cats.
The only verified account of a litter box in a classroom is in Colorado, the Dallas Observer notes in its report on the Furries Act in Colorado. teachers were given buckets with litter as emergency bathrooms in the event that an active shooter shut down the school. They're not going to throw kids in jail in Texas for meowing because that would be crazy. Instead, they're going to find teachers who don't immediately correct students.
who meow. A $10,000 fine for the first offense, a $25,000 fine for each subsequent offense. The average salary for a teacher in Texas is just under $58,000. thousand dollars per year so a couple of meowing kids with a tiktok account could zero out a hated teacher's salary in a single algebra class yeah texas jesus fucking christ get your shit together
Two more quick things. The EPA, the Environmental Protection Agency, which here in bizarro world exists now to damage the environment, announced that it's scrapping regulations that keep our air clean because... The Trump administration doesn't care if you inhale dangerous chemicals unless you're a gay man and you're inhaling them by choice and for fun. The Food and Drug Administration raided a company that manufactures poppers last week.
shut it down. Other companies that sell poppers, which exist in a legal gray area, also shutting down. The FDA is run by the Department of Health and Human Services, which is now run by Robert F. Kennedy Jr. A conspiracy theorist who believes that poppers causes AIDS, which they do not. I've been warning gay men for years that they're coming for PrEP. I didn't expect them to come for poppers first, but here we are.
Last item of interest, the first community the Trump administration came for was the trans community. Journalist, author, and New York Times opinion columnist M. Gessen, and past Lovecast guest M. Gessen, has a new piece up. about the Trump administration's not just dehumanizing attacks on trans people, but the Trump administration's denationalizing attacks on trans people and immigrants.
and what they mean, what those attacks mean for a trans-immigrant like M. Gessen. And, of course, why you, why we should all care. The link is in the show notes. Please take a few minutes to read it. All right, Magnum subs, save the date. Our next Savage Love Live is this Wednesday, March 19th, noon Pacific. Savage Love Live is a Zoom bonus lovecast for Magnum subs only. If you're already a sub, look for the link in your inbox on Wednesday morning. If you are not yet a sub.
Change that. Become a Magnum sub right now at savage.love slash subscribe. And you can join me and your fellow subs on Wednesday for Savage Love Live. All right, coming up on today's show on the micro, tons of your Q's, lots of my A's, and very excited about this, our very first after action report. Then on the Magnum. Javier Leyva joins me. He's the host of the true crime podcast, Pretend.
Also, the True Crime Podcast's Criminal Conduct and the Ponzi Playbook. Javier is here to talk about romance scammers, how to spot them, how to avoid them, how to get them out of your life. We also talk about why I don't like true crime podcasts, but why I like Javier's true crime podcasts. All that coming up on this week's show. Let's get to that first question.
This episode is brought to you by Helix Sleep, the very best mattress designed with your comfort in mind. Right now, get 20% off a mattress purchase. Go to helixsleep.com slash savage. This episode of the Lovecast is brought to you by the good folks at Squarespace. They make it easy to build a beautiful website, blog, or online store.
Head on over to squarespace.com slash savage for a free trial. And when you're ready to launch, use the offer code savage to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. This episode is brought to you by Field, an app where curious people come to connect. Download Field on the App Store or Google Play and find out why so many of my listeners are already using it. Hi, Dan. I recently started seeing someone new and it is just...
It's fantastic. This is after ending very amicably a really long-term loving marriage that, you know, ultimately we were just better as friends. This new person that I'm seeing, you know, I can definitely... see myself probably with them some kind of partnership poly I don't know what situation but he looks exactly like one of my exes and it should have like hit me immediately but you know it didn't register until like
a couple dates in and i don't really know how to feel about this like i'm obviously not gonna stop seeing this person like it's again it's wonderful the sex is ridiculous And I'm thinking about like, okay, this person will eventually meet my friends and some of those friends like know my ex and they're immediately going to make this comparison.
I don't want him to be freaked out by like the fact that maybe I'm just replacing my ex with him. I don't know. And, and my friends are going to have these feelings and it just feels really. awkward. And I'm not really sure how to navigate this, this eventuality. But I'm yeah, I would love any advice on what to do here and how to make this not weird.
You're standing on your own deck. By which I mean to say you're getting in your own way. You're making this weird. It doesn't have to be weird. Yeah, when your friends meet your... current boyfriend, the guy you're crazy about, the guy you're seeing now, some of them are going to notice that he bears a striking resemblance. You said to one of your exes, you didn't say whether it was to your ex-husband, your most recent ex or most significant ex.
But he bears some resemblance to one of your exes. He's a vertebrate. He's a biped. He's a male of the species. There's a lot of ways in which he resembles perhaps all of your exes. Yeah, it could be that you have a type. It could be a coincidence. And you know what? In either case, it's fine. A type is a fine thing to have. All of my husband's husbands.
Well, just one of us, just one husband, all of my husband's husbands, me and all of my husband's boyfriends have been six foot ish or more brown haired guys with. Striking features, prominent noses. He has a type. And that's fine. And you know what he does when anybody, including his current boyfriend, points it out? He laughs it off. That's all you have to do when your friends...
notice as they inevitably will, it's going to have the import or the impact or the durability that you give it at that moment. And if you go to pieces and if you're like, oh my God, yes, this is so fucking weird. they're going to pick up on that and react to it like it's so fucking weird. And it's not fucking weird. This is not a thing that you need to screw up your own relationship about. And my God, if this is the only thing.
If you're looking around for things to feel weird about or red flaggy about or just hunting for problems, potential problems with this new relationship and this is it, this is all you came up with, then. Oh my God, Yahtzee, what a match. This guy is great. Great for you. If this is the only thing that your self-sabotaging brain as it scans this new relationship for potential problems, manage to find...
You need to step off your dick, lady. You need to stop making this a problem. You need to get out of your own way and enjoy this dude and enjoy the awesome sex. And who knows? I won't say it. Because you're not gay. But if you were gay, you could totally have a three-way with your current and your ex and compare them side by side. But that's the gay superpower because we don't actually worry about these non-issues like so many of you straight people.
seem to do enjoy the new boy enjoy the dick don't sweat the resemblance hi dan i'm a 31 year old gay male living in the northeast i found myself in a Pretty tough, emotional quagmire. Been in my relationship with my husband for about 11 years. I've been married for two. Recently, we found ourselves in Athrapal. We...
Developed this really intense sexual and emotional chemistry with this third person. Initially, we were just hooking up, but then they confessed they had feelings for us. And we tried a relationship that lasted about three or four months. It ended because of me. I felt really burnt out and I crashed. I'm also not from America and I think a lot of... stresses about how this relationship might impact my ability to go.
back home permanently to Australia or have a life that I was fully in control with. I think those really stressed me out as well. So I kind of just broke down and the relationship ended. The issue now, though, however, is it ended so suddenly that there was a lot of open questions. And I still have feelings for the third person, but I really want to move on.
I think my husband still has feelings for the third person, but he wants to remain friends and remain in contact, whereas I think it would be better for my healing to break contact.
And this is now causing a big conflict between me and my husband because I am emotionally hijacked every time this person texts me or I see them on social media or even when my husband... texts them or hangs out with them and I find out about it I feel very like things are out of control and I feel very insecure so now this semi-friendship thing is continuing on all parties but I don't know how to
end it or how to get over this because if i try to create non-contact it has this like ripple effect on my husband and this third person will also react emotionally in a way that impacts my husband. So I feel very confused as to what to do if I act without.
consulting my husband, I'm worried he's going to be mad at me, and that's going to further damage our relationship. I don't know how to create a new narrative about our relationship now, considering we had such a positive narrative for 10 years. We had this third person who got put into our narrative and then now taking that person out, I'm not sure what's left or how to make sense of that in terms of our relationship and to get excited about our relationship again.
I totally get you when you say you're afraid that being in this throuple now, having this third person in your relationship might prevent you from moving home. I understand why... you might want to. And in your situation, I might want to too. And if you and your husband enter into a long-term relationship with somebody else who can't... go with you, that's going to factor into your decision about whether you go or when you can go or if you can go. That makes total sense to me.
And it seems, at least on your end, a reason why you might want to end this relationship because having the ability to move back home if and when you want to without feeling encumbered. by a new long-term relationship with a third party, is important enough to you that you will end a four-month relationship to preserve that freedom, to preserve your autonomy as a couple.
The real issue here, though, I think you give shorter shrift to, which is your feelings of insecurity and what this means now about your relationship with your husband. You use the word narrative. I feel that. I have said that. A relationship is a myth that two people, often just two people, sometimes more, create together. It is a story we tell each other about who we are, what we mean to each other, and then we turn around and tell others that story.
And then sometimes we have to revise our story. And the revision process can seem dislocating. It can make us feel insecure because we've invested, in your case, a decade more. 11 years two years married into telling each other the story of who you are to each other creating that story creating that myth together telling other people who you are this third person coming into your relationship
is a radical revision and you feel insecure. Also, watching your husband, and it sounds like your husband has... bigger feelings for this guy than you do. It was easier for you to end this relationship than it's been for your husband to end this relationship. At the very least, your husband would like to remain friends with this person. Watching your husband catch big feelings for somebody else has you feeling insecure. You're feeling insecure because why? Because
It alters, perhaps in some fundamental way, how you understood your husband's feelings for you, which you probably understood through an emotionally monogamous frame, right? That romantic love, the kind of love your husband has for you is... A kind of love that we can only have, each of us as an individual, for one other person at a time. And I'm here from one of your potential future timelines to tell you that's not necessarily true, but...
There is another story you may be telling yourself if you allow this relationship to continue five years from now where you understand your narrative differently and your narrative has expanded to include this other person. I was very much a couple guy, relationship guy when Terry and I got together. And after we opened our relationship, we joked that we had some very special guest stars.
we had one other person that usually we were sleeping with and at a certain point we could just kind of backed into an acknowledgement that this was a boyfriend and they deserved to be called a boyfriend but that was a really difficult and in a couple of instances, painful transition for me in particular, because it meant revising my understanding of who I was and how I functioned emotionally and what I wanted out of a relationship and who I was in a relationship and what our story was.
And that revision process was difficult, even without the added complication of I want to be free to move home if and when I need to or... fucking want to bail on this titanic of a country we're all trapped in at the moment and as my husband you're free to go with me but if we wind up staying or unable to feel free to go because we're emotionally wrapped up in this
Rupple relationship with a person who can't join us as easily. I don't want our options shut down two years from now. And whatever else this relationship brings to the table for me, it's not worth sacrificing that. That's true for you. It's just that your husband's not on the same page right now, which is making it hard for you to create or to understand your narrative now. Time. Time will tell. In the meantime, while you wait for your...
narrative to re-solidify or to come back into focus again, for you to feel more secure with your narrative now, you can't control who your husband is friends with. You may want to non-person, you're third. You may want to end this relationship and stuff him down the memory hole, but you can't demand your husband do the same.
And so if what your husband wants with this person is a friendship salvaged from this relationship, not only do I think you should allow it, I think you have no choice but to allow it. And I think it's a good sign about your husband. That he can't just disappear this guy in the same way that you have. I'm not saying that's like a bad sign about you. Do you want to go no contact? No contact for a while while you cauterize the wounds.
wait for the feelings you had for this person to diminish, that's a reasonable approach to the end of a relationship too. But it's not the only approach a person can take when a relationship ends and your husband is a separate person. And he is taking a different approach. Is he doing anything that would lead you to believe that he's still getting in this guy's pants or hoping that you'll change your mind?
That's something you'd have to discuss with your husband if that's what you think is going on. But for right now, while your narrative is in flux, you're just going to have to give it some time.
Hey everybody, welcome to our first After Action Report, a new segment of the Lovecast where we're going to be asking people to report back to us on first-time experiences. So, if you've tried something for the first time, something you always wanted to do... or suddenly wanted to do or were inspired by a new partner to try something that took you outside your comfort zone. Thank you. Thank you.
make new connections. Welcome to After Action Report. We hope you like it. Joining me for this After Action Report, she goes by Zee. Zee, welcome to the Savage Lovecast. It's lovely to have you. Thank you very much. Such an honor. So what did you try? Okay, so I've always wanted to try submission. I never thought it was possible. I thought it was something that was just in my fantasies.
But I met someone on field who had 30 years experience as a dom and was open to newbies. And so we texted a few times. He was... hopeless on text, utterly hopeless one-line answers, almost let it go until we started talking about transgressive joy. And then I thought, ah, there might be something here.
We arranged to meet and things progressed from there. So before we get to how it went, what is transgressive joy? Well, I think it started when he asked me why I was coming to London and I was going to a drag event. And he said, what is it about drag that you love? And I mentioned that it was transgressive joy and that drag has actually changed my life in terms of it's helped me understand how to be a woman.
I now embrace play and makeup and embodying myself as a woman, and I've never done that before. And that's thanks to the beauty and power and bravery of drag queens. And that spoke to him, or you guys began to spark over that concept, and that made you want to actually meet this guy? Exactly. So he went from one-word answers into coming alive a little bit. And he said, I think, no, the words were, I'm all about transgressive joy.
And, you know, someone with a way with words and with his amazing cupid lips and other descriptions that I can't go into too much detail. Give us a little detail about when you say you tried submission for the first time, what did you try? Okay, so we established what I would call him. We established what I would wear. And it was the first time I'd experienced.
being told what to do. I'm a feminist and I'm a strong, independent woman. And so earning that interest in submission was a leap. And of course, the biggest sex organ is in between our ears, you know, that kind of power play. unbelievably sexy, just unbelievably sexy. So it's the first time I've tried collars, cuffs, being chained to something, being teased and being punished when I transgressed.
And I've never been as turned on and I've never experienced anything like it. Well, that answers my next question. How did it go? It sounds like it went pretty well. So the morning after, I was walking through the streets and there was an icy park bench and I scrolled in at M, more please, and sent him that picture. Okay, well, we have our answer even to the next question, which was, would you do it again? We have done it again. We have done it again. Just once. He's very busy. I'm very busy.
It's the most transactional I've ever experienced an engagement as well. I mean, I felt like I should be paying for the experience. But there's something risky as well. And I know... I did my screw diligence. You'll be very pleased. I got references because I wanted to make the most of a short time in London. So I got references. So I knew that while there was risk, I wasn't going to end up limbs in a suitcase because no one wants that. There's more to try.
So this is, I think, something I want to highlight in your experience in this after action report. I always tell people who are interested in exploring submission that if they're talking to a dom, someone they've never played with before, they can and should ask for...
references. When you asked him for references, did he balk? Did he instantly supply them? Did he get it? Did he give you any pushback or did he just give you the names and numbers? Absolutely no pushback. So he's super experienced. He thought, what a great idea. He has two names and numbers. I talked to them. Didn't go overboard, but just safe, respectful, sexy. You'll have a great time.
Okay, so anybody else out there who's interested in maybe exploring submission, cuffs, collars, being chained to something for the first time. A green flag is when you ask for references, do they give them to you? Yes. And it's not weird. It's not weird. And if they push back and say something like a real sub wouldn't ask for.
No. They're not a real dom. No. And that's the other thing about a real dom is that subsequently I've played with people who have all the props, they have all the toys, but maybe not the attitude.
And so that was what, and that again goes with the references. He's experienced, he knows what he's doing. If I'm not feeling safe, it's not going to be fun. I mean, okay, for the wrong person, maybe it is, but for someone who's there, who... who's getting pleasure out of that, out of your pleasure, then 100%.
Riffing on something you just said, the biggest sex organ is between the ears. Somebody can have all the props and the play space and all the costumes, but the most important gear when it comes to kink play is between the ears. It's the imagination and creating... a vibe, creating a scene, having a Dom's imagination or a Zub's imagination, and being able to create and sustain an erotic mood, that erotic tension. That's the most important gear, and all that gear is between a Dom ears.
And there were peaks and troughs, so he'd build it up and then he'd check in and then it would go down a bit and then he'd build it up again. And I'd had a really long day and he very respectfully, you know, we kind of ended at a natural pause because... It was all about the whole experience, not just one little peek. I mean, anyone can do that. Two minutes with a vibrator, but you know. All right. Last question. Okay.
Any advice for someone who wanted to give this thing that you just gave a try, a try? Just own what you want. Own your desire and go for it. And don't be scared to ask questions. And don't be scared to say what you want and there'll be someone there to meet that need.
Thank you so much, Z, for jumping on with me and sharing how this went, this new experience. Thank you for coming on for After Action Report. Really appreciate it. Thank you so much. Your podcast has changed my life just a little bit.
Okay, that was our first after-action report brought to you by Field, the app where curious people come to connect. If you're open-minded, exploring your gender identity, want to connect with people for a long-term relationship, or a short-term relationship, or build your friendship community, I highly recommend.
Field. Field is a place for first timers, for those who don't know exactly what they want or who they are yet or what they like, but know they want to try. 62% of field members change their interests, desires. and sexuality within their first year on the app. One in two people on Field have a kink. More than half of straight people are chatting with people who aren't. Field is a place.
where you can come as you are, change as you like, and meet others on their journeys. And there's no algorithmic gatekeeping field. We'll never try to learn you. Only you can do that. We're going to keep after action reports coming. If you have a story of a fresh new experience, something you just did, something you tried and you want to tell us.
how it went, send your story in to Q at savage.love with after action report in the subject line. And if you haven't already, download Field on the App Store or Google Play and find out why so many of my listeners are already. using field. Hi, Dan. I have a quandary for you. Last year, my brother passed away and the coroner gave me his phone and I don't know what I should do with it. A little bit of context.
At the time of his passing, my brother had been suffering from schizophrenia for over two or three decades and had been homeless on and off. So I don't know him very well. Also, he's biologically my cousin, and after his death, my mom informed me that he was the product of incest between my grandfather and my aunt, and he had been sexually abused as a child prior to being abused.
being adopted. And he had some charges related to sexual assault as well. So all that to say, I'm stuck between this opportunity to get to know this person that I would like. to know better who is gone now and also what to do with a phone that might potentially have problematic things on it that I'd have to address if I open it.
I'm so sorry for your loss. I'm so sorry for all the ways your brother suffered, was made to suffer, was abused. And I'm sorry for the people that your brother in turn victimized. What to do? about his phone, get rid of it, destroy it, have the SIM card destroyed, have the phone wiped. Whatever's on his phone isn't going to bring you the comfort or closure that you think you're going to find on his phone.
If you want to feel closer to your brother, reach out to people who knew you both when you were kids. Reach out to some people who knew him when he was a kid. Reach out to people who knew him in adulthood when he was... not in the grip of his mental illness, who knew that person that was underneath the schizophrenia, that person that those times when perhaps he was on.
the meds that he needed to be on, that person, that real person, the person your brother was at the core who would surface. And talk to them. And it's in those conversations and in those connections that you can make with other living people that you will... Get to know your brother a little bit better. All you're going to find on his phone, what? Text messages with people that you don't know? Perhaps disturbing images?
his preference in pornography, which could be very problematic and not something that you would want to know, not something you could unknow and not something that your brother, when he was not in the grip of his mental illness would. probably want you to know. I don't think it's okay even in death to invade someone's privacy. Our phones are really extensions of our inner lives in ways that
can clarify, but can also distort. Yeah, I don't think you should read your brother's phone. I don't think you should look at the images that your brother saved on his phone. I don't think you should pour through the links. You're not going to get to know your brother, your late brother, cousin, any better.
Reach out. Reach out to some people who knew you when you were kids or knew him when he was a kid. Reach out to some people who helped him or were there for him in adulthood and talk to them. Connect with them. that's where you're going to find the comfort enclosure that you seek, that you need. And my heart goes out to you. It really does. This episode is brought to you by Helix Sleep, the official mattress.
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see how your body adjusts to it, and if you decide it's not the best fit, you are welcome to return it for a full refund. Helix offers models with memory foam layers to provide optimal pressure relief if you sleep on your side like I do, or models with a more responsive foam to cradle your body for essential support in stomach and back sleeping positions.
Right now, Helix is offering 20% off all mattress orders for our listeners. Go to helixsleep.com slash savage. Let them know the Lovecast sent you. helixsleep.com slash savage. With Helix, better sleep starts now. Hi, Dan, Nancy, and the tech savvy at-risk youth. I'm a cishet early 40s American man living in Europe.
And I recently had to cut off communication with my dad. He's had a long history of manipulative and abusive behavior towards me. And it has gotten generally better over the last 15 years. But following my separation a year ago, Just when I needed him the most, he went back to his old tricks. So after confronting him and not seeing a change in his behavior, actually quite the opposite, he immediately doubled down.
insulted me, accused me of lying, and there was something else going on, so effectively accusing me of cheating, which in his mind is the only way that a relationship can end. So I stopped replying to his texts and answering his calls. And now he's planning a trip to come here. I found out through my ex before I had decided to cut off communication with him.
And it's just his second visit here, so the timing is quite suspicious. Based on our history, I don't believe anything I say will change his behavior. It will almost certainly be twisted and used against me, giving him... more ammo to emotionally abuse me. My daughters are excited to see him and he's been a good grandpa.
to them from what I've seen. So I don't want to deprive them of that connection, especially since they don't get to see each other more than once a year, generally. Oh, and in case this wasn't obvious from his shitty behavior, my dad is a thrice-divorced Trump supporter.
your kids can see your dad your ex can arrange for your kids to see their grandfather if she wants them to get together i think legally she couldn't be stopped from getting those kids together when they're with her with your father if she so chooses you're not obligated to do fucking anything if your ex wants this to happen and
She's willing to make the arrangements. They can see their grandpa has always been a good grandpa to them. It's always a risk when you allow an abusive, emotionally abusive, manipulative parent to interact with. Your kids, they're the fear, the realistic and justified fear that they may pull the same tricks on your kids or attempt to pit your kids against you somehow. Or it can just feel like.
Even if that grandparent, even if your parent isn't shitty to the grandkids in the same way they were shitty to you, it can feel like you're rewarding a terribly shitty parent, giving them a gift that they haven't earned.
don't deserve which is that relationship with their grandkids but you need to ask yourself what's gonna be harder for you what's gonna create more problems grief headaches for you preventing your asshole father from having some interaction with your kids or allowing for it even if all you're allowing for is it to happen when you're not around now if your father were physically or sexually abusive of course you shouldn't allow
him to be around your kids unless i mean at all but certainly unless you're there monitoring every interaction so that wouldn't be a fix If your father were sexually or physically abusive, your father sounds like he's manipulative, emotionally abusive, cruel to you. You haven't seen him do any of that.
to your kids. There's so many like spinning plates here, so many things that you have to consider. And yeah, it sucks. And fuck your father. Fuck your father for voting for Trump three times. Fuck my father for voting for Trump for three times.
I got a little bit of grief in the last struggle session at savage.love because I had a conversation with Mike Peska about fucking Trump supporters. I don't think anybody should fuck a Trump supporter. I don't think anybody should be. I wouldn't want to be if I were a woman particularly, but. If I were a man, I wouldn't want to be married to a Trump supporter. Yeah, if Terry voted for Donald Trump, that would be the end of that. After all these decades, that would be it.
But my dad voted for Trump and I still chat with my dad. I'm going to go see my dad in June. I haven't seen him for a few years. He's 84 and ailing and I'm going to go see him. So I just think, I guess, and maybe this is self-serving of me or a rationalization that makes me feel comfortable living with myself, but I do think that there's two categories here.
The relationships you can't ever escape. Your parent is always going to be your parent. That's a conflict-laden relationship. How do you de-escalate so... family functions or get together with grandkids or whatever, you can have some contact. And then there's the relationships that aren't forever. You know, your dad's your dad forever. You can go no contact with your dad. Your dad's still your dad. Somebody you're fucking, you can end that relationship and it's over.
And I guess where I fall right now, and again, maybe this is just a self-serving rationalization, a straddle, where I fall right now is end the relationships you can end and... Make some space for the relationships you can't on your own terms. My father has known since 2004, since he voted for George W. Bush a second time,
that we do not talk about politics. We talk about anything else. If my dad were a ranting, raving Trumper, if he had Trump flags outside his house, if he couldn't have a conversation with me without blowing up at me about having voted for Kamala Harris. We would have much less contact than we do. That is not the kind of Trumper my dad is. My dad is a Trumper and it's horrible and I hate it. And if Donald Trump had won in Arizona by one vote, I would be really angry with my dad.
But he didn't. And so, based on who my dad is, I allow for a little bit of my dad in my life. You get to decide for yourself how much of your dad you're going to allow in your life and your kids' lives. And it's hard. It's hard, isn't it? It's, it's fucking hard. So I feel for you. If I were in your shoes, I would allow for this visit not to reward my shitty father or torment myself.
but so that my kids didn't resent me for preventing them from having a relationship with their grandfather because of our bullshit, because of our conflict. This episode of the Savage Lovecast is brought to you by Squarespace. Squarespace is the all in one website platform designed to help you stand out and succeed online. Whether you're just starting out or growing your business, Squarespace can take your look and your operations to the next level.
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Hi Dan, Nancy, and the tech savvy at-risk youth. I'm in a bit of a predicament. My fiancé and I have been poly for the last few years, been together for five years, and we are looking to... de-escalate the relationship, mostly based on the fact that I want to live more of an alternative lifestyle, whether that be living out of the country or in a bus or on a homestead. anything that's not
buy a house with a white picket fence, get a retirement fund, and die. I just, I don't know. It just doesn't sit well with my soul, and it hasn't for a very long time. And throughout the course of our relationship, I have jokingly and... non-jokingly tried to convince him that this would be the best way to go. And he's nibbled a few times, but we've never really taken that jump together. And it's finally just...
kind of come to a head where I feel like I need to do this for myself. My question is, how do we successfully uncouple or de-escalate our lives? are so intertwined that it seems impossible. I'm financially dependent on him. We have an elderly sick dog together. We moved across the country together last year. We are each other's only support system out here.
idea that we are no longer going to be together in this capacity just I can't even make sense of it but I know it's what we need to do all right let's be realistic about your plan your plan to live abroad your plan to live out of a bus live on the road you're financially dependent on him so the first thing you're going to have to do before you can
decouple before you can go your separate ways is figure out how you're going to support yourself financially. You also mentioned that you share an old elderly sick dog. This would be my advice to you. Between now and the time when your old, sick, elderly dog passes, of course, not something you want to think about, but it gives you a little time horizon.
You're going to, in addition to being there, still being coupled to the extent that you're coupled now and still being there to take care of your old elderly sick dog together. In that time, between now and the dog's death, you're going to figure out how to support yourself financially. And then you're going to part. And part as friends.
One of the most toxic messages we get about relationships is that they always have to end, or they can only end if they end in conflict and drama. There needs to be an explosion. It is possible for two people to say, I love you. You were perfect for me at this time of my life. I'll always treasure this time. We're going to go our separate ways. We're going to have.
regrets. We're going to have some melancholy about that. We will have nostalgia for the relationship, but we can love each other out of it. We don't have to engineer the kind of relationship extinction level event that most people feel that they have to, I don't want to use the word achieve, but most people feel has to come, even if they wind up then engineering it.
becomes this perverse self-fulfilling prophecy to exit a relationship. So it might make you feel a little bit more comfortable remaining in this relationship for now, while you really have no other choice because you are financially dependent on him. You may feel less anxious about the white picket fence and the grave if you're using this time constructively to figure out how you're going to pay your own fucking bills and committing to each other.
for the dog's sake, to stay together and make the most and the best of the time that you have together, still with the dog, but also with each other. And again, in that time, figure out. what you're going to do so that you can support yourself financially. And actively doing that will make you feel like every day you spend with this guy is not another day you're being dragged closer.
to that white picket fenced graveyard. All right, time for listener feedback. First up, some of the comments left on last week's show and the very lively comment threads at savage.love says inspired desires. For the bi caller, as well as any bisexual guys afraid to come out because they think women won't date them, get a more queer, more diverse friend group. More friends means more people to vouch for your character. It also means more parties, more protests.
More events. Build a network, says Delta 35. Outpanned by queer whatevs cis male here. Completely agree with Dan and his. Guest Sam out is best, but most bi guys aren't out or don't even identify to themselves as bi pan queer. And it's not just the numbers game that keeps some men from disclosing. Biphobia, binegativity from straights and lesbians and gays is less than in the past, but still a thing. You're right, Delta 35, biphobia. Still a thing. Keep some bisexuals.
from coming out. But gays and lesbians didn't come out in the 1970s and 80s because homophobia wasn't a thing. And the bisexuals who came out in the 70s and 80s weren't coming out because biphobia wasn't a thing anymore. In Harvey Milk's famous Hope speech, Milk said, we must continue to speak out and most importantly, most, most importantly, every gay person must come out as difficult as it is.
The slogan, the theme for the 1987 March in Washington, which I was at, what was on the poster and the t-shirts was, come out, come out wherever you are, which was a message sent by out gay people at the march to closeted gay people. who weren't at the march, with thousands of out bisexuals who were also at that march. I know you're an out bi man delta, and we're talking about bi men who aren't out, but to those who say they can't come out because it's not easy, I say...
We've been calling bullshit on that excuse for 50 years now. It doesn't get any easier to come out for you or anyone else until you come out. Says JJ72 concerning the porn content created at a friend's house. Well, I agree that you should ask first. I think it would have been less of a problem if the person who created the porn at her friend's house had only posted it to her OnlyFans and not to her Instagram.
Then only people who actually pay for the content she creates would have been able to see it. Not every Insta follower, including the caller. Ignorance is bliss, or as we say in German, was ich nicht weiß. Macht mich nicht heiß. What I don't know can't make me mad. All right. For more listener comments, dive into the comment section at savage.love. And for longer responses from me to listener and reader comments, sometimes thoughtful, sometimes glist.
Be sure to check out Struggle Session goes up almost every Thursday, sometimes Friday morning at savage.love. And now everyone's favorite part of the show, the part of the show where I shut my big gay mouth and let my listeners get the last word.
Hi, this is a response to your conversation with Sam Lent about Bye Guys. I am... another queer woman bisexual woman who is super into bi guys and i just wanted to add another reason that i particularly like bi guys It's not just the queerness, it's not just the similarity there, but it's also in some ways they feel a little bit safer than straight men because of their acknowledgement of their own queerness.
They have had to come to terms with their own identity and deconstruct possibly some homophobia, like internalized homophobia and internalized misogyny and sexism. Like, it's not a guarantee, but there's a stronger chance that they have done that than straight guys. And so in that sense, they actually feel a little bit safer than straight guys.
And for me personally, it's also just really hot. Hey, Dan. The top two questions on the episode this week together got me thinking. Self-identified lesbian. I'm currently dating a trans guy. And it's funny because when I say I fucked someone, I usually mean that I had sex with them. And that could be a variety of different ways.
But one of the things that I think that women often mean when they say, I fucked someone, I was doing the fucking with another woman, is I was giving the pleasure, right? I was the one that was giving the pleasure to my partner who was receiving the pleasure because...
You know, certainly there's lots of things we do where we're both receiving pleasure, but sometimes there's some turn-taking. And so the reason I thought it was interesting was here's this guy, right, that, like, the first episode was not my problem. Because I'm currently with a goddess worshiper. I think all women who have a pussy should be with a goddess worshiper of whatever gender. Someone who actually enjoys going down on you. So when my partner is sucking me, sometimes with his mouth.
He is giving me the pleasure. And he would never dream of fucking me in a way that did not give me pleasure. So this dude, this selfish sack of shit in the first call, that wants to fuck her ass without... making sure she's coming first, that's a problem. And that, like, you could all learn from lesbians. When we fuck, we fuck because we want to give someone pleasure. And we're going to leave it there.
Got a question for me? Go to savage.love slash ask Dan to record your question directly onto our website. Or you can make a voice memo on your phone and email us your question or your comment by sending it to Q at savage.love. Or you can call us at 206. 302-2064. Leave us a message on our answering machine.
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and threads at Dan Savage. Follow Javier Leyva on Instagram and threads at Javier underscore on the air. Be sure to check out his website, pretendradio.org. The Savage Lovecast is produced every week by Nancy Hartunian and me and Nancy and the tech savvy at-risk youth. We will all be back at you next week with our installment of the Savage Lovecast. Thank you for telling me.