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They said them all. Making a career at Motorsport is hard in my top gear days. I just crashed a car and I think I'll probably get fired. They said if you crash again you're done. The Stig was one of the best-capped secret, how confidential you had to be in your job, bro. I had my own vision of how I would go about this. I never took the helmet off. I would arrive at work in a bad clover, even in my civvy clothes. In the end it didn't become a shitstorm.
You've never really gone into 2D what actually happened. Are you ready to? It's such a negative story. I'm really ready to talk about it. Be natural, try. Then, two weeks ago we literally didn't know each other. However, one week ago I was in the back of a taxi heading out in Las Vegas whilst dressed as an orange Nemo sat next to one of my childhood heroes, the Stig.
I also found out that he's a little bit of a piss taker during that week and have come to actually be quite close friends with Ben already. I'd like to think. Before we tell the listeners how we got to that crazy point, which I was definitely reflecting on, in your own words, who are you and what do you do?
Ben, it's lovely to sit with you in your van. We've had a great week haven't we? Who am I? Ben Collins, I was born in Bristol. I grew up in America. Then, through one way or another, I ended up becoming a racing driver, which is kind of like a dream thing to do. My original dream must be a fighter pilot.
So, I'm Ben the racing driver. It's kind of how I see myself. And it's fair to say in your past life, a point in your career, you probably had one of the most recognizable outfits in television history, which is quite simply a white racing suit and a white, I'll always remember the brand Simpson helmet.
It was the thing that car lovers and kids like myself and they watch top gear were always captivated at who could be behind the other side of the helmet. But when I've heard you speak on other podcasts about your story and parts of your career, usually it always starts from 2003 onwards, which will get on to why that that was an impact or critical year.
I'd actually like to go pre 2003. I want to try and get across to the people that watch this and listen, what it actually takes to become the stick. So, what did life look like growing up? You know, what was your earliest memory of a car?
Early memory of a car is trips with my dad. So, he was something of a hooligan with machinery and in general, but he loved driving fast. He loved cars. And so for him, the company car was the thing. So, he was, you know, he would have these jobs and he was, rather than the work his main focus is what was the company car going to be in these these conversations of wood sort of evolve on these various trips in between bursts of sort of overtaking and cornering.
And handbrake turns in of our drive that type of stuff. So, I guess that was there. I mean, and on the on the mantel piece was Senna's Lotus. So, in the background, he would watch these grand pries. I would be out doing my own skid in my little go car. I had a replica.
It kind of looked like a Lotus F1. It was a pedal car with plastic wheels and you could make it skid. That's my earliest memory of driving in the sort of, yeah, it is as a baby really. And actually, when he looked back, I was kind of drifting it at walking speed, but still for me, that was, that was the thing.
And one day I remember him and my cousin pushed me in this thing and that was the first sense of speed. They got me up to sort of running pace, which was extremely exciting. And this thing was quite unstable. So, it was sliding around. It was just the best feeling. But that kind of got parked for a few years because I then moved to the States when I was five.
I got into competition. So, I became a swimmer. So, I was swimming twice a day. Lots of training, which was a great thing for lots of different reasons, health and just, but also focus and getting used to being competitive, dealing with the nerves, the mental approach to stepping up to the block. All the technique that made a difference, but, you know, sort of 10th of a second that make us a big difference to the outcome.
So, I was learning all those kind of things and getting on my BMX and doing all that kind of 80s stuff. So, you're in the your teenage years. This was, no, this is like between age of five and 10. So, that's growing up in the US Atari, you know, this decades before you even were a glimmer in the milkman's eye. And so, that was growing up in a, it was the best time to, you know, to be an America was in the 80s.
It was an awesome era. Then back to the UK, lived on a farm and there was, there was farm machinery. So, mechanical stuff with engines. And so, I just terrorized the quad bike and actually, you know, that was a really formative thing. I learned a lot of car control. I was messing around trying different techniques just for the hell of it. But not really with any particular goal in mind. Other than having fun until I was my first experience at a racing colon I was 18.
So, that does cover off quite a lot of a competitiveness in growing up already learning about racing, learning about 10th of a second, not even necessarily on tarmac. However, you did mention that even from the youngest years you were already involved in being pushed around in carts and basically not motorized but vehicles in some sense for word on the road.
Do you remember when the first time that you thought, I love this, like I love cars. I love automotive. I'm passionate about this rather than because when you're a kid sometimes you're just placed into stuff. And I've seen even friends of mine from school that their parents pushed them into say, Tannis or whatever it was. And they ended up falling out in love with that particular thing because maybe they didn't really beat down love it.
When did you discover that you actually had a real passion driving? So, that's a really good point because I think there's a lot of burnout in sports and particularly for people who are pushed into things and it's not their passion. It's their parents' determination that they've tired them into a situation. And I think you do need to be pushed sometimes and there has to be encouraged to try things, whether it's swimming, football, you name it.
Anything that you go and do that you're into and you try and take it to a higher level and develop your skills. That can take you in all sorts of different directions. But yeah, and I think that's true with racing. You know, look at carting. A small percentage will make it through. But there's a lot of parents there yelling at their kids to force them and cajole them into a position that they don't actually inside. That's not really who they are. It's not what they want to be.
But to ask the question, for me, you know, I enjoyed every these road trips. It was just a thing. You know, I mean, we survived to whatever holiday we were doing. We would drive across Europe. That was a thing we did. We had fun slash unbelievably boring, you know, the backseat. So there'll be some some spirited driving that would be interesting. The longer distances before, you know, games consoles were invented that you could take with you.
Bortable devices. You know, there is a lot of a lot of getting cast sick trying to read dodgy books and stuff. So for me, though, the the time I got totally passionate about driving properly was first time in a racing car. I was a team went to Silverstone drove through these gates and a little bit of a taste of it. My dad had started doing some racing. I've been to a Grand Prix at CNET and center and was becoming aware of what this scene was.
But when I was it was when I was sitting in the car for the first time in a single seat, you know, you're less than centimeter from the ground. You way of sitting your bum is right at the floor and turned it on and you just feel the whole thing shake and your body is bolted into it with these belts. I knew I was hooked and I knew I was it felt like I was home. I just knew that that was me. I think that a key point is you just mentioned that on a road trip necessarily because this was years ago.
I think we can mention that you're in your 40s now. That's fine. Yeah, yeah. The boat talks about actual. But you mentioned that on a road trip, you didn't have things that we have now, phones, distractions, games, consoles, etc. I think it's almost natural that in racing these days that you'd be now looked at a little bit funny. If before you got to attract, you haven't proved something on a same.
So but back then your first your first experience actually racing the first chance to prove yourself was actually behind the wheel of something that could kill you. 18. So you loved that straight away from the outside. I mean, yeah, but I mean, motorsport has been born out of I mean originally they were racing these single roads. That's where it all came from in circuits. The mom was born from the road races Paris to Madrid, they did open roads just used to dig into the hack it across.
So that was pretty dangerous and that's why they did it was a safety improvement. But ultimately, you know, you're only really going to learn how to race by doing it. And whereas the Sims are fantastic, they've evolved now to a place where they are so much closer, you know, the better the sim gets, I find the better I'm at the sim because it's becoming more realistic. So you're you're sort of instinctive responses and reactions are more tuned into what the computer is doing. So become less fake.
But still mechanical and the G forces and all that stuff, you're only going to learn that by actually doing it. And so, you know, you go out on a track, you do some testing some practice. It's a remarkable thing how quickly human beings can adapt to speeds that are one of the excess of what we can walk or run out. It's just a weird quirk of evolution that we can process.
Speed in hundreds of miles an hour, but actually comes quite naturally and you can learn it quite quickly. So with the little training, it doesn't take long to do what outwardly seems to be an incredibly dangerous thing. You can learn it very quickly and actually that's why I love also instructing so, you know, fast forwarding something on top of your days.
So, in a car that was fairly simple, like the Suzuki, Leana, you know, 45 minutes, you could you could take someone, I mean, Johnny Vegas was a great example, he had not he had not attained a road license. He was he came to the track with his instructor, who was rolling his eyes at the stuff I was telling him to do. And he was listening in just thinking, I'm he's this guy's creating an absolute nightmare because he still didn't really know to use the clutch or anything.
And I looked down at what he was doing with the pedals and I said, oh, that's quite an advanced technique there. You're you're left foot breaking into the follow through. And he just said, I'm doing what? He had no idea where his feet were. So he just wasn't thinking he was just doing it.
And if you've got an instructor with you, then that's that's fine. And you're you're able to experiment. So yeah, he didn't he really couldn't differentiate the clutch from the brakes, which, you know, obviously for advanced driving would be a problem. But for that window of time in between you sat in a car with Johnny Vegas, the stick on top here and getting in a car for the first time at a 18 sitting there.
Silverstone one of the most iconic tracks. You mentioned that you're in the States growing up, but you'd come back in your first race was actually in the UK on home soil at Silverstone. What was that like then? So that was my so first try, you know, try out of a car was at Silverstone, which was just mind bending, you know, the feeling of it, you know, I wanted to be a fighter pilot.
This thing just felt like a fighter pilot ground level and actually the speeds at ground level feel much faster than up in the air. So I've been lucky enough to go up in a, you know, Pfizer jet, which was a boy had dream went up in a tornado. It's quite fast, but it doesn't fast as on track. So it's weird how how these things sort of different, different, but it was an amazing feeling being bonded to that car and being completely transported, you know, it's completely disembodied to you.
You are just, it's just motion and the sensations that coming through the wheels to your hands through your bum through your body, your chest. Everything is united with that machine taking you to this completely other world. So that was just driving on my own. The first race though, that was a different deal altogether. So that was a brand touch. I'll never forget it. The brand touch ship is a Formula Ford Festival.
Hundreds of the best drivers in the world were there. I was in a subcategory called Formula first, which is similar thing with the wheels that poked out the side spin little thing, but extremely fast. And, you know, I, I could drive the car fast, I qualified third, but I was surrounded by counting champions and all this kind of stuff. People were very experienced. I'd never done a race before. So I had to get it off the line. And it was, I think it was big, greasy, whatever.
It's quite interesting. Actually, you didn't have the car. The car in wasn't part of the story here. It was just kind of dropped the race car. Yeah, so I was fast. I had no idea how I was doing it. I was just there. And, you know, people come out, what have you done before this? Nothing. You know, I live on a farm. This is, this is it. And people didn't believe that. Because because I was fast, because in, but they brought material, but I didn't have a clue how to really put it together.
I went into the first corner. Yeah, I'm a heart was beat. It slowed. It was beating so hard. Going into that corner. The adrenaline dump was unbelievable. We were swarmed together. There was three cars wide. I won car, sort of nudging me into the into in the back. It was all going off. And so being able to take a corner. You couldn't even see the corner. It's cars everywhere.
So that was quite exciting. And I slip wide, I think at the fourth corner. I don't know. The first lap was a couple of, but I still remember skating wide and sort of drifting through the gravel and actually cut the face of a mate of mine who's a journalist who was watching at the time.
So I made a mark on him literally. And finished the race without crashing, which is a miracle. But I was up at the front from the get go. And I've had a steep learning curve of how to compete on track with other cars. And I was like, I'm not going to be a race off line defendant, not defend all that stuff. So was it your first part of you having a career and work, et cetera? Was that in racing?
What was that question again? So the first time you mentioned you were getting into racing at an early age. And it's kind of family passions and growing up in a world of racing and cars and all the rest of it. And you sat there in a race seat like what the hell was going on at Silverstone? Did that develop into like a career quite quickly. So no, it's so making a career at motorsport is hard is hard. And so I wasn't sure whether that was going to go growing up.
I had lots of different ideas. What I might do. I was I wanted to join the army or I had to, you know, whether I be a lawyer. So I carried on with those in, you know, because the racing seemed to be even from the early stage quite a fickle thing. You've got to find sponsors. It's extremely expensive. You've got to compete be at the front to justify all of that, you know, time expense and everything. And, you know, to get going.
Anyway, you can really finance yourself with various ways you could be working, but was to go and instruct. So I started doing that. That was the sort of one way, but that's even that's not really paid you. You're doing your best. You're you're learning another skill, but it's, you know, you're looking for every sort of opportunity to try and find some way of furthering your career. And to do that, you've got to find the sponsors.
And that's knocking on a lot of doors, but it isn't easy and luck plays a huge part in it. And you know, and you knocked on the right doors, then. Eventually, so I had some good contacts. So I did get some sponsorship. So that got me through into Formula 3. And to America. So I raised in Delights in the States. And that team had some funding as well, which helped.
But then that funding ran out. So I got as far as I could go. And then it became a career because I then switched across to doing the mom prototype racing and sports cars. Where the teams have got funding. The hiring professional drivers. I got to drive for a scurry, which who had this incredible. Absolute beast. This, you know, Formula One engine, you know, Lola chassis. A scurry was the team based in Spain.
So they now have the so Clouds for who set that up. He built the track in Spain. And yeah, in the in Ronda, which is beautiful part of Spain. And he created this team. And his goal was dream was to create super cars, which he did. The KZ1 and the A10, which another, another beast got both of those on top gear, which was awesome. Unfortunately, when I lapsed it, the track was half damp. That car was would have gotten faster. So otherwise.
So he realized his goal. He built, he built these cars, which is huge undertaking. And got to see that up close. It gives me a huge respect for, you know, look at what Christian one Cone exec is done. I know from seeing the trials and tribulations that Flarece went through to start a car company at that level. It's hugely intensive and complicated. So together. There's a lot of people that have tried and maybe a few that.
It's hard to say if they succeeded or not, if they're just constantly being funded and cash pumped in, I think you've got the lights. What's the Apollo IE is another small car company manufacturer think Pagani so well established now that they he's matched it. And the same way Christian has actually asked Christian. Once I luckily got to visit the factory. And I wanted to ask him a question. I was thinking about what I could ask him.
And I said, um, would you say Pagani is your, your biggest rival? He said, no, he's like, so our customers have both. Is that I have more customers that have both than customers that just have one or the other. So he said, I actually think Garnies are biggest compliment. Like to get the best out of both cars. And it was quite amazing to hear him saying that. They just sort of had their different directions. But I do think deep down there was some level of rivalry.
But now Christian is wonderful. And you obviously drove some of his machines the early days as well. Do I remember seeing an orange machine with some tire stuff in it's mouth once it was silver. Thanks for bringing it up. And yeah, I mean, both of it. I mean, Horatio Garnie and Christian, both of them have also in common. They have stuck with it and they have, it has taken the years and years and years of extremely hard work to get where they are.
They're both artisans. That doesn't really make any money though. You've got to sell the units in enough volume that it justifies all that design and tech. They both done it. And it's a huge, you know, you've got the commendable what they've done. It's so determined. The CCX that I drove on top gear was an early model. And they'd been using it for. They were really keen to get. I think it was a production record in a straight line like top speeds.
Top speeds. Top speeds. They're still chasing that now. People say, yeah, I could care less about that stuff. Like really, it's me, it's pretty meaningless. And unless you're on the auto barn and you want to drop down that cog and just top trumps, say it's top trumps. I get it because it gets headlines, but you know, who cares? You know, daily basis. You want to, how does it handle? That's what matters.
The car arrived. It'd been stripped of all downforce. It didn't have much anyway. So it's quite a lot of cars. Very light on arrow. This is the early CCX. The ride height was quite high. And there was a few things going on. You know, I noticed that the, you know, the brake pedal was a bit soft and the power steering was a little bit tired. So there were moments and that car was a beast. How much horsepower had probably 600. So maybe I'm going to get that figure wrong manual gearbox.
This huge soup spoon, like massive handle, but all Victorians sort of feel to it. And not denigrating the car is awesome, but it was a beast. And it will be the most exciting lap I did on the show because it was literally all hands on deck. This heavy steering, you know, was coming going a little bit. The power steering was coming going and as firing it around these corners, you come out and the ratio is a fairly short.
Remember from memory. So I had to change gear quite a lot while sliding, you know, coming out the hammerhead to be couple of gear changes. So you're controlling this quite heavy car. It's quite unruly because it's the right height was high. And try and doing it one handed whilst trying to engage these gears and not screw up a gear change in second to third was a bit of a, you know, there was a bit of a journey to get it cock on.
And if you don't get it cock on, you lose a couple of cents of a second. That doesn't get the best out of that car, which is not fair. And it's always absolutely determined that anything I draw you on top gear will get the absolute maximum performance. Otherwise, you're just lying to yourself, you're lying to them. When the next car comes along, if you haven't given 100%, how do you know how do you compare them?
So, so I was always determined to do it anyway, a bit too determined because I got it, I tilted it into the follow through. And I felt I could maybe just carry a tiny bit more speed through there if I could just float it float it in a just a few miles an hour quicker. And I caught it as a power steering quits, which it will tend to do with so much caster and camber and this, you know, the steering effort is massive.
So I should have anticipated that and anywhere I couldn't unstick the steering wheel and it just shot me off the track. And as soon as I sort of changed direction, I was doing my under and something mile hour. I just thought, there's a bloody towel here. I've never, it was a title I'd never seen, I'd never been anywhere near it before. It's in the middle of a bloody field for no reason whatsoever.
And I couldn't change to director his horse on the grass. So I'm bombing along and just clean this thing out and this tire got jammed into the sort of mouth of the car. And we were desperately getting out. It was embarrassing. It looked ridiculous. But the ambulance was coming up and I thought, at least it's my mate because it's, you know, friends of mine in that. But actually they were just transporting Christian up to look at his damaged car.
As much as anything, I was obviously fine and you got out. I thought I've got to explain, I apologize and explain. So we did have a really good conversation. And I thought I'd get fired actually. So I remember going up the steps to the port of cabins going to see my boss, Wilman, it was fairly early days in my top of your days. And I just crashed a car. And I was like, this I think I'll probably get fired. It's a hyper car. It's an expensive thing.
This can't be good. And he was extremely good about it. Actually Clarks immediately backed me up and just said, you know, it's a wild animal. You know, I'm amazed you hung on to it that long. So I thought it was the opposite of what I expected. I thought I was going to get told off. And, you know, I was obviously feeling bad about it. Spoked a Christian and said, look, if you sort this out, get the, you know, leave the brakes, lower the ride height, stick a wing on the back.
I reckon I'll go three seconds quicker. So that's what we did. And it did. And we've just discussed how you're basically bombing round a 800,000 pound, I think it is 600 or so power plus manual crazy cones out ground a track. But you are the only guy in that white stick suit at that point. But yet where your career kind of started and one of your earliest memories of racing and enjoyment was actually on a track where you couldn't even see the corner.
Because there was so many cars around of you racing is clearly a funnel. There's hundreds of people thousands of people that would love to get into racing. And it funnels down to the guys that actually end up as 26 on that grid or 12 on that grid or whatever the circumstances is. And then there's the people that get to the peak of those and move on. But there is only one stick. So how did you get that?
The thing is you also asked in there about some of the racing skills that what there are there are lots of pockets of skills you need to learn to be a good racing driver, which I hadn't really, you know, I had to learn that from scratch. I read send us book many times watch as much information. He was my sort of idol. If you like that helped a lot. It also it also worked against me some extent.
He'd race go cards since he was a kid. I hadn't. He won everything. So I thought right that's that's obviously the simple model need to win everything. And actually fact there was a mistake because it affected my risk assessments of all the moves. I thought you need to win these races. Do whatever it takes to get to the front. And as a result, I had a lot of crashes. So I wrote off three in my first season or destroyed completely destroyed three cars in the first five or six races.
By being totally uncompromising and forcing moves that weren't on with this dog of belief. You know, like Ricky Bobby get to the front max for step and ask from these days just kind of chuck it down the inside. And then you can come in through or rather a crash. Well, he's perfected it. I mean, he's he is the ultimate in lots of different ways. So he, you know, he.
He has created a new overtaking move. And to do that, you think how long people have been racing running cars. No one's ever thought to drive that way. He's he's got a new move. And that is he is he has developed a way of breaking into a corner. Well, actually the edge of the white line is where I can go to so I can break later because I can go all the way to the far side of the track and then turn left or right the corner.
It completely destroys the other driver. So it's within the rules. You've got to race between those two white lines. If he comes past you, he's probably going to take you all the way to the white line and then turn away. And you're going to be left high and dry on the outside lane. And some people might go, well, that's not so fair. It's a bit rough. It's whatever the thing is with without breaking maneuvers. It is like it's like paying poker. You're quite good at playing poker. So in Vegas.
I wasn't I lost a lot of money. I was very much up. I mean, one second. I was very much down. Well, that's it. That's that's life. But it's like that. You win or lose. And you can also when you're out breaking your opponent, the opponent has a choice whether to try and you know, I just stay you down and try and compete with you and end up completely hung out or let you dive up the inside and let you go to find the corner and switch a rule on your way out.
There's so much into it. But he has coined this new max move and it works. And he's taking down champions. You know, so that's that's overtaking prowess. But that wasn't what you were like then. Well, I I was in all the wrong places. So I was hanging out on the outside of three cars in 120 mile an hour corner. I had no business being there. I got punted into the wall. I destroyed that guy ended up in a bathtub. I mean, literally all the wheels came off.
One of them nearly I mean, nearly killed my teammate this the wheel and the suspension the entire thing flew in the air. I don't know how high because I was spinning backwards at the time. My teammate said he was going towards Hawthorne at maximum speed in this car. And this thing just landed it bounced over his head and disappeared. So that was the end of that car chassis number, whatever it was. Another one at Liden Hill.
Was in qualifying and I was fully lit. Someone had a moment in front of me and I had to get out to get around it. I bow a roll destroyed that car. I can't wait. The other one was must have been hit on the head. But so yeah, after a while realize that needed to adjust that and start picking you to pick your moment basically.
So that's a key part. That's racing. It's it's also knowing how to deal with the pressure being in front and when to defend your position and when to attack and all those things. The other side of it's that racing. The other piece though that I found harder actually was the qualifying runs. Particularly when you get into the faster stuff with slick tires that need to be activated yet to get them into an operating window.
And usually with the new tire that window is only open for one or two laps maximum. And the car doesn't handle perfectly in that time. You have a much higher grip level. But it will handle differently how you've been driving it all the practice sessions. You have to be able to imagine what it will do. And you have to work on how you activate it. And you need to be motivated in that session.
And I wasn't motivated in the qualifying sessions. I love the racing and the fighting side which meant that I would often qualify not well enough and then end up with these big battles which are great fun. People will say this was highly entertaining. But if you qualify properly, you could have won the race. You know, okay. So that was a technique you have to work on and that's that's on your own. That's totally on your own headspace whilst keeping a seat.
Whilst keeping a seat is if you keep crashing a car, you don't get the same one. Well, that's what that was basically what happened. They said if you crash again, you're done. That's like, okay. So that was the element of fear that was needed because I was 18, 19, no concept of giving a toss. What happened to me? As long as I was competitive. Yeah, a bit of fear was needed. So yeah, and once I got the qualifying sorted out, that was a very it's a cerebral thing and you do it on your own.
And it's, you know, you're not you're not fighting with other cars on the track. It's about a perfect lap. And that's the skill that ultimately got me the job on the top gear because you're on your own. Nobody's there to tell you to go faster. Well, occasionally any woman would do, but I took his kind regards and made my own decisions on what to do because I was already doing my best. And he knew that I think he used to enjoy it and I used to enjoy his pep talks.
But yeah, you're on your own and you've got to figure it out. So I'm my audition was with Wilman. I didn't know that really that he was the boss boss turned up with an indifferent need of a belt, sort of saggy trousers. This one was hanging out of his box of shorts. You just turn up because you saw an audition available to go to know how did before we get too far. How did that happen?
You were in racing cars one minute learning how to qualify and then you're in an audition with Andy Wilman at the top gear track. So what's happened in that gap in between? Yeah, so I've got to this sort of peak of my career racing at Le Mans 24 hours in the in the top category at Le Mans. LMP 900 it was called it's called LMP one was hyper cars now. Similar sort of thing 225 mile an hour in a car that's got more downforce than Formula One car, but they weigh more.
You know, incredible bit of kit and racing around the world was fantastic. But still fighting to make a living basically. So it's looking at other opportunities and TV seem to be a good place to go because that would get brand exposure for sponsors. So that got a good thing. So I was going around doing the rounds a bit with TV stuff. I'd seen top gear I remember the Noel Edmund show and I was hassling and hustling to get some work with the magazine with the TV show and that led to this.
You know, whatever reason they were they were looking for a driver and so that's how that meeting came about. So Wilman got me got me involved to be to Dunstville where I went met him there. He had a stopwatch and a Ford Focus and he showed me the track, you know, because it's quite funny as an airfield is quite flat. So it's all white lines. I picked up on that one we were really when that's picked up on it. Yeah, we were in Vegas last week and we had a good week. It was awesome.
And you mentioned something which I just hadn't considered ever in watching it, which is of course an airfield track is really different to racing chap because there's not really any elevation changes. You are racing on essentially a table level rather than somewhere like Laguna Saco where it's all about the corners but the elevation in them. So that was quite different adjustment to get used to at all or yeah, although, um, probably of the first corner actually has some other elevation.
And that was quite relevant. So there was then there's a few different lines through the first corner. Um, apparently mine is different to how a lot of other racing drivers tackle it. I felt it was quicker. So I would cut the distance and get it in and try and get fast in and fast out but also cut the distance. So you cut the distance is shorter on lap time. Um, but yes, it's different and also the the boundaries are marked by white lines. So you need to know where those are.
So that was kind of what we were doing on those early lap, like scouting around seeing where they were and I was like, I'm up and working out which and I was asking specifically, can I cross that? Can I do this? What's the what are the rules? So I'm racing you're allowed if you you can have all through all three wheels across the white line, but as long as one is on the tarmac, the official bit, but they didn't like that. You were not allowed to cross the white line.
So no cutting corners, which I was always desperate to do because between the first corner and Chicago. There's a white line, particularly in the really powerful stuff, you know, you'd be desperate to cut it because you would really carry a lot more speed and you can break later to turn right. We couldn't do it. And we watched for this stuff and I get penalized and it was also self censoring if you like, we showed you the where it went.
And you know, through the keys to this thing, Ford Focus, I was not racing a Ford Focus. I was racing a thing with massive slicks, tons of downforce and 850 horsepower at high speeds. And now in 150 horsepower road car front wheel drive never race the front wheel drive car except obviously shenanigans and as an instructor. So that was kind of what I relied on and I threw it around as best I could.
Wilman looked extremely non-plussed with everything that I was doing and he's like, as fast as you can, you know, I said, I said, am I doing this? Like, yeah, he said, is that as fast you can go and I said, yeah, so okay, yeah, thanks for coming. That was it. So didn't get hired, didn't really hear anything until a month later. And then I got the phone call, which was, can you be in it on Tuesday? Turned up on Tuesday. There was a white suit in the helmet and that was that.
And I think that's quite relevant because at any one point, did you realize you were getting into something that essentially was going to close off you as a driver? Ben Collins was the brand was the driver was always the guy racing on track.
Did you ever have any fears about stepping into, I mean, there must have been a lot more to it than just stepping into the white suit because the stick was one of the best kept secrets or certain in the eyes of the public was one of the best kept secrets in motoring history. Many years, some people would say is that Michael Schumacher is that there was all sorts of theories to hear it could be. What was your first experience on understanding how confidential you had to be in your job, bro?
So before I started, there was a stick in the black suit. But not for very long, was about nine months. I think it was two two series to two and a half series. And then he was killed off and it was around that time before it was just as he was being killed at that. I happened to be in touch with the show. And then they fired his character off the end of an aircraft carrier. You may remember this. And he was floating in the North Sea and apparently the aircraft carrier.
They did this through this Jaguar into the sea. It didn't sink as fast as they thought and the boat nearly hit the car and that would have had to have been reported as a glistening at sea. And the captain could have lost his job. So it was quite a big deal. Fortunately, it didn't hit the car. Anyway, a little tidbit of information there. So I'd seen what the characters about. And as a kid, I was a huge star wars fan. So Stormtroopers Darth Vader, Boba Fett, you never see their face.
That's kind of a key part. You can see how that develops the character. And it makes it something. It's really interesting. So I thought that was extremely cool. So when I started, I had my own vision of how I would go about this and maintain the sort of secrecy of it. And in my usual way, a sort of OCD did that to the full size. So I never took the helmet off. I would arrive at work in a barclava, even in my civvy clothes, so that there was no possibility of being identified.
And there wasn't something I was told to do. It was just why how I interpreted the best way to build on that character. And did that get more serious as the years developed then? Like, are you really need to keep your character secretive now? How would you turn up to somewhere, like for argument say, when the show was on in disguise and then leave without some sort of pap getting a photo of who they thought was the man getting out of this white suit.
So fairly easily in a way, it was quite fun learning these games and what you could get away with. So I would park in a randomly. Also, we were lucky because Dunstful's quite a secured site. So it's X military. It's where they used to develop the Harry's jump jets. And they still have a guard house and all that kind of stuff. However, people can sneak in and we were always aware that there were paps calling through the woods with long lens cameras and stuff like this.
They weren't going to get much. And so I'd park in a random spot, find out of my little route I would take to get in and you're quite mindful of your surroundings and see what's going on. If you got your eyes open. So I get in and I get in very early before anyone else was really there and it was quite quiet to stay back in those days. So that was all right. That was that was straightforward.
I knew where I was getting to. I used to get changed in the Harry and Pilots, old room, which is quite cool. I was a little brick thing for where the pause cabin. What got harder was when we go and do stuff in London. And I'd have to go between being Ben doing so for instance, I used to drive these range over tracking cars around. So we'd stick a, yeah, we're the film crew in the vehicle. The boys at the tailgate open filming the presenters. Wow, it was never like just the race and out on track.
No, you'd be wrote into kind of driving all sorts of all sorts. Yeah, driving tracking vehicles getting involved with some of the planning for some of the shoots and some of the crazy stuff we come up with. And but yeah, it was great, which was really fun because you would get involved when you'd see how the boys were shooting stuff and you'd see how they were sizing things up.
So I'd be, I'd have to get there would be a, you know, at the moment, you have to get changed in a telephone box type thing. And pulling that off. So at that point, it was, it would have been worse to walk around about a club or probably get arrested. Definitely these days. And kind of having to hide in plain sight and just be a bit low key, be the grey man and stay out of sight and then reappear. So that side did get harder as time went on.
And but I was, I tried to be ahead of the game. So like when we get checked into hotels, they were putting me down as Ben Collins, which I said, please stop doing that. We're going to create a new name called Richard Jamesson, which take up me because I was, you know, Richard Pamand Jamesson from Clarkson. And I got my own, I had a BBC, I should have brought a BBC card made fake identity with that name on it.
So the people wouldn't start reading because you know, you'd have that conversation, we'd check in and go, oh, are you, do you work with BBC? It's not we wanted to hear. So that kept that under wraps as well. That was helpful. Yeah, just having to be tactical, just think around how to get around it. But it got harder as time went on because by the end of it, I think I've been there eight years.
And in the end, there was like 120 people at the BBC knew who I was because I've turned over and started. This is what I was going to get on to insurance forms, risk assessments, all of these to just within work. That must have also grew in your personal life that people started to cut and on what was going on. How many people found out, etc. I was super careful with that. You know, you make to the last ones you should tell until it's until it becomes defensive.
So I think one of the big outage things we have was the health and safety report after Pam and had that horrific crash in the jet car. I was named on the report because I was going to be driving it and I've been involved in some of the well, tiny, tiny fraction of the build up to that basically. And that didn't help. So I was like, well, who is this racing consultant that was in some way involved.
And the papers got you know chewing on that and they were getting it right, you know, because I was there. So I was just a different disinformation Wikipedia had just started. So there was always a bit rumors on that and then YouTube just started and stupidly. I was asked to do an interview in my first series and having never worked in TV. I didn't know any better, although it felt wrong at the time. And I did interview with this Dutch presenter.
There TV show that I know and watch it to be fine. And I said to producer, you sure this is the right thing to do. But two years later it resurfaced on YouTube. So if you really tried to find out that you could probably find now as a diehard fan. Journalists were very good at it and they pretty much worked it out. But they didn't really, they didn't spoil it until the BBC revealed me in the radio times. And then it was, they thought it was a paper season.
And that's when it started coming up in the in the bigger newspapers. So during your time there, you got obviously really close with Clarkson, Hammond and May. And not only that, you got instructors you said because it's amazing how many skills that you have when you're younger. That you think we may not end up doing that again. But you mentioned one of your first ever jobs in racing to earn some money was actually instructing.
And then you probably never thought that 10 years later or however long it was that you'd be sat in a car with. Just throw some names out there. Cameron Diaz. Yeah. I was very tired to flex that's pretty cool. You mentioned, who is it that you mentioned earlier, Johnny Vegas. Yes. A great bit of fun. So you've obviously got some people that stick out. What was some of the relationships that spring to mind that you were you really remember from those days at the top of your people that you met?
So the thing with instructing, which particularly was racing, you and any any racing instructor, I think would agree with this and probably it's true of whether it's water skiing. What's that helmet on? Top gear. Yes. Helmet on. The helmet is always on anyway with motor sport. You've got to helmet on and track your visor open and tall. You probably get one in 10 people come through the door who really can drive and they don't realize it yet because driving how you drove to work this morning.
Has no bearing really whatsoever with how you drive on track. They are too completely removed skills. Although once you've got the racing skill, you do start to have a much higher awareness and perception on the road. It makes you better, better driver all round. So you'd activate these people. You get one in 10 who could be activated and they would just take to it and just be like, here we go. And they're a joy to teach. Simon Kow springs tomorrow.
So Kow was really interesting. So he was hilarious. He had a very natural feel. I managed to convert him to sort of a couple of racing skills that he took to all of which he forgot between because he actually came to the track twice and I couldn't believe he had sort of reverse it to his home, you know, home brand of driving, shuffling the wheel like they taught us. I said, he's forgotten everything I showed him.
And in the second time, I saw, you know, let's try and do it like this. He said, I like it this way. So he did his own thing, but he did hit really effectively. He had a very natural sense of his own environment. He obviously could feel the car and he was fast. He set fast slap at times. Although I'm suspicious because he said, he said, in one of the interviews, he said, I've got a secret and I'm not telling anyone what it is.
So I don't know, I don't know if he cut the track. I was always watching. I don't think he did. And he was very good. So I don't know what secret this was. Maybe he, I don't know, maybe he's an electronics wizard and he just put a different ECU in the Suzuki for that. For his hot lap, anything's possible with him. I mean, you don't know. So you instructed all these guys while it's okay. So did Simon Cal, for example, know who you were as the stick.
No, you still have to remain in disguise and be ultra careful. Oh my God. Pfizer, what did that do to you after a number of years? But it always being this secretive person. Did you enjoy that? I loved it. It was fun. I mean, I didn't want to be on camera because it's that's quite intimidating. You got, you know, it wasn't something I get that's exactly what you do now. Now that's what I'm doing. Well, that's been a huge challenge to get past that.
I mean, it was horrific. It does sound like that. Then you weren't interested at a tool. So it was rise and down and you were enjoying that. It was perfect. Yeah. Go have a great time. You're involved with this exciting thing. You got these crazy people as presenters doing these things in the hilarious to watch them in action on camera as particularly off camera.
You know, and the live shows. If only someone could have recorded what they were saying to each other before they went live on to the stage, it was just, you know, break the internet. So they are very much even tone down when you see Clarkson having a main on on TV versus what they're live on. Some things you cannot say. They said them all. And they were they were really, really good fun. So the live shows actually is where I got to hang out with them the most.
And go out and go and hit these cities, you know, after hours and have a really good laugh. They're, you know, they're really good fun. And also, you know, and also the broader team camera team all that as well, unbelievably skillful talented people and production team. All the ideas are creatives coming up with idea after idea. You know, Richard Porter's a well-known member of that team. You know, the script writer also involved all the idea ideation.
So a big family really with dysfunctional one, a fun one to be part of. So yeah, it was a great journey. You should get on with the bass. I'd be honest, I mean, I really enjoyed all three. They're, you know, Clarkson is such a force of nature. And we know when we were out doing our stuff, we spent a lot of time together, got together with his house in the island man.
For that amazing shoot, we did out there. It's a proper riot. And, you know, you know, you're quite deeply into someone's personal life at that point. And that's a great place to go and find out what, what the crack is. And that's, I mean, the island man, what a place. No speed limit. I've been there. I love it. Awesome. Yeah, they know they're all good fun. And yeah, we did some crazy stuff. But what went wrong?
Well, all good things come to an end. And so in terms of the secrecy side, that veil was starting to slip. So I mentioned the radio times article. That was a massive own goal. There was an unbeknownst to me. They'd done a front cover shoot with someone dressed up in a white suit. It was the front paid, a front cover of the radio times. Who is the stick? The nation needs to know something like that. And then you opened it up and it was my picture of my bio inside.
So that was a main I got my, I had some building work going on by building a slab on the table. So I make, can you, can you sign that for me? It's like nothing to do with me. And he said, Oh, no, you're in here. Says you're the stick. So that happened and then a couple of the telegraph picked up on it. So well, they're playing with this now.
We kind of know it's been so we'll start doing our own articles. And it there was, I've started to hear rumors about getting other people involved start doing my job. And I thought, you know, I've been here a long time. Why, why would I be, why should at this stage should be slowly faced out? I'd rather be locked in and do, you know, do more. So I decided it was time to go. So I'd, there was a few hints that my time was coming to an end, whether I wanted it to or not.
And I thought it was best to go out my own terms. So that was, that was the thing. So I handed it my notice. I'd written a book, which I was, you know, I got that sort of in progress, if you like, as a sort of way of telling my story, because I knew that it would be quite a big deal when I stepped out into the storm. Basically, well, I didn't know what it would be because there was a lot of different ways I could have gone in the end. It didn't become a shit storm. It was quite a thing.
So you mentioned it was a bit of a shit storm. You've never really gone into 2D what actually happened. Are you ready to? Well, sort of. I mean, the atmosphere, the show was definitely changing. I noticed that the, we actually have the crowd used to come to the track and we would, they would go to the studio and all that sort of stuff. And I mean, James is always brilliant. James may come out, make everybody tea, hand out biscuits.
And then, you know, as the popularity grew, you know, some security guards appeared and then TensorFlow, it has appeared. And it was becoming this very, I don't know what you call that, but it was different. It was different conglomerate. More corporate. And there was more of an edge to things. You know, there was just some of the fun had just had vanished a little bit a little bit in the sort of just the easygoing nature. Just when it was a smaller show, it had become this much bigger thing.
The merchandising stuff was everywhere. You know, the I am the stick t shirts which were hilarious were, you know, becoming a thing. But yes, it was a feeding frenzy around that, you know, the stick brand thing and it was a company called that now the stick brand and all this sort of stuff. I was quietly getting on with what I was doing. I was loving it. But there was definitely more external pressure than there had been before.
You know, and it was just, yeah, it was a bit, it was a bit more severe around where we were working. And I just sort of saw where it was going and I just felt that, you know, I was going to be I thought I'm going to be phased out. I can see it. It's going to be phased out. They're going to have people coming in. We're going to do things in different countries and there were a few and there were a few direct hints.
You know, we're not just hints. We were going to do top gave us going to do the Lamont 24 hours, which for me, this is golden. It's kind of it's literally why I signed up to do the job. And it's such a negative story. So I'm really russes and he's just sort of talking about it. But it was one of the real reasons I thought this is not going the right direction. We're going to do this race. But they were, I can't talk about this. I just can't bring it out. It just feels negative.
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People think it's a winch. It's not. It's, yeah. I think it was a winch. I'm not a winch back. Ultimately, I wanted to go racing and beyond just doing the Brit Car 24 hours. And when I saw that, you know, for the thing to grow. This is a winch. He's turning into a winch. Be natural. Try. This is the real bank. People don't get this. This is why I do this. People don't get this. People think that we've all got to be these.
You mentioned at the beginning that you were quite when you were thinking about things to do in your career. It was easy going to be a lot of it's quite straight or if it's going to be in the army, which is quite straight. But everybody and we we always bring this back on this podcast to try and make out the listeners realize that the people that get in these positions, the Stig Hammond Clarks and whoever we're talking to are actual human beings.
And even if they're in these positions, which are like one in the world or something really special and amazing, but we are all actually human. So as you say, there's a bit of a winch, but we have bits for a winch in a career. And if you've been at a show for that many series, something clearly has happened, which was that the final straw of all that because in most people's contracts and business,
it's quite simple in the real world. You have a 30 day call it off period or you go and get put on guard and leaving you're onto the next thing. But there is that thing, the normally that triggers somebody leaving or someone being phased out is if you say that is a key moment in your story, then you should potentially share. Yeah, I mean, I was pissed off because the racing, like I said, it's always about money. This, that the other.
And you know, we were going to do the plan was to go and do them on. But they needed to drive it to pay for it. And I was I thought I'm back square one. It's absolutely back to square one. It was the funding of the show and all the rest of that. Yeah. So that was kind of that was kind of a breaking point. And I just thought, you know what, I've put so much into this. I want this to be so quite the you know, the stick going racing would be the would be the be all end all.
And that really was hard. So I swallowed. And there are a few other things too that were like that where, you know, I couldn't be in all different places at the same time. But I felt that that actually I've been incredibly loyal and it was really difficult. And I was still, you know, on a very short term contract one day at time pretty much. So it was and who was helping you with that behind the scenes get through that.
Well, we were all there because we loved it. So I and this is the things I only have a positive reflection of my time. I absolutely loved it. It was the best job in the world until it was time until I felt that the time was up. And I think I'd, you know, it grown so big. And you know, you've got to just accept it. I don't know. Do I either stay here and accept that's the way it is or anything else. So I decided to do something else.
And that was to forge a new career. And you know, and now that's in a completely different direction. But that was there was a, it wasn't quite that simple because we mentioned the word chit storm. Yeah. So where what was the trigger point you mentioned among that's where you wanted to do that idea that never happened. You felt like you'd been phased out. What was the smoking gun? What was the bullet? Well, leaving was the hard thing. So having decided to go.
I thought, again, I was aware it was this huge thing. When I started to talk here, it was around a sort of two million audience. I left half a million, sorry, half a billion worldwide. 72 countries were broadcasting it. You know, Stig was everything from a stressed old to a, you know, morning clock. What else was there? There was a pool, a pool string thing like Woody from toy store. It was on lunchboxes. I'd seen people walking around the high street in London with an iron stick shirt.
I'd seen people coming. And you know, the BBC is a big organization. You don't, you don't want to tangle with them. So I want to do it the right way. Also, I want to do right by my boss. But I also want to do right by myself. So, you know, I considered what I was going to do. And I gave when I had my notice in basically. I think the last guest I had. Not knowing they'd be the last guests. So I didn't didn't know at the start of the series. But my last show was Tom Cruise and Cameron Diaz.
So that was an amazing way to go out. It was pretty cool. And it was really hard. You know, sort of saying to, you know, someone who become a friend. This is my last series. This is why I'm going. I've loved it. And, you know, let's work it out. But ultimately it became a legal battle and a pretty unpleasant one because you wanted to come out as I am the stick your t-shirt was the only real one.
Yes, exactly. And you know, I've been there eight years. There's a massive hole in your CV. If you just, you know, go onto your next thing. What did you do for the last eight years? Not much. And it also seemed to me an opportunity for someone else to come in and start fresh. Again, not my decision to make this. So it's not my show. But, but freedom of speech is a is an important thing.
I try not to wear when guests like to keep their private life more private, which I know that's kind of barrier that you're on. But just if you could give us some insight, you mentioned like if you hadn't have come out, you'd have this great big hole in your CV as well. But I also try and look behind the scenes a little bit like family wise. Obviously, you mentioned you've got a partner in your marriage. That must be quite difficult for family around you as well.
I could imagine a friend of what was it said, orders for what does bendy like how does family members navigate that? Like when people say what does bend it? It's like always racing drive, I guess. Is that basically the spiel that was put out? It was. I mean, to be fair. I mean, I left in 2010. But by that time, it had been in the press so much, it had been in almost every newspaper. And it was becoming almost impossible to defend it. So family and friends close ones.
I'd sort of create a little bubble around so that at least I can have some help sort of fending people off. But it was it was practically impossible. Having, you know, if I if I'd left that it was so out in the in the domain, it was it was on Wikipedia was all over the place. So the kind of cat was out of the bag really. So there was a timing element to this worse like, look, this is up.
And I was that is why I was tied to here. That's why Michael Schumacher came onto the show was to help throw a smoke screen and also because he's awesome. I think I think that's a bit round. He's awesome. So it was, you know, there was a great opportunity to get him on. There was a reason for it, which is that it had been a there been an explosion in the press.
And it was great that he came in and did what he did. And hilarious to sort of get him out, you know, just so there was me got to meet him. Both of us in these sticks suits. Trooping around together was really funny. Was that legal battle that ensued the hardest thing that you've ever dealt with? Yeah, there's most stressful because it's a huge, you don't realize how big that organization is until it turns us on you in attack mode. Huge legal department. So that was all there.
And to go to the high court. That was no joke. And it coincided with the birth of my son. So and we did try moving dates and they wouldn't move it. So that all happened at the same time. And it was it was a big big deal. And if and you know, if it got the other way. There was all sorts of ramifications and I had a probably gone bankrupt. So it was an important one to do. But equally and I could have walked away from it.
But at that point, I thought I'd be so it puts so much pressure on us. So there's nowhere backing down. I'm leaving. And it's not right. Well, how that stage was not right. How was handled? Where does that mental resilience come from? I don't know. It's just I have grown up. I think I've always hated bullies. I think that's when you've got when and so actually the more something grows and and intimidates. I dig in and push back.
There was never a time in that way you thought, I can't do this anymore. I'm throwing in the towel. I think this definitely you know that you've got to have a voice of reason. And I was fortunate to have some great advisors. I was also very fortunate to have fantastic support for my publisher, Harper Collins. And the individual is there that made a massive difference. And my amazing agent, Art Glukas, who's a literary genius.
And fantastic human being to really guide me through and sort of like, you know, you're doing. You're doing nothing wrong. This is a process. This is now a process and you'll get through it. You did get through it, which is excellent. Did get through. There's something on the table here, which is he's clearly advertising a book. Well, I thought that's a bit as he mentioned. Christmas is coming. As he mentioned, the stick became a global brand.
You can walk in any corner shop, probably in any corner of the world at one point. And there'd be anything from a coaster to a squishy toy in there. So no doubt that having been able to then put. I'm guessing the result of the battle they ensued and able to be able to do things like this. Exactly. Was there a tear your first book, the man in the white stuff, the stigma man's the fat slain and me, Ben Collins.
That is the book they tried to ban. So that was it. And so after that result, this book came out and really well. And I can sign someone for you. We're going to have a bookshelf in the road to success fan. Do you read? I do. I'm so checking because there's not that many pictures in this one.
Okay. Right. Here we go. And what was Ben writes this, I say most of the time on on the podcast, I try and sit back and ask the right questions to people sitting opposite for them to then tell their own story and just kind of point it in the right direction. Even from a personal perspective for me, I've obviously sat down with a lot of people. But anything can happen like I'm now sat in the back of my mind. Just stick. I suppose name right. To Ben the dick leave. Fast.
We've got to just playing Ben. I'm not Benjamin. That is perfect. And I will actually read this. I will read this. I will update everybody on the socials of how I get on. But it's probably last week when we were in Vegas. It was your Ben didn't meet in Greek session on the stand that we're on with EBC breaks organized by patch ladenism, cheer. We had a brilliant way. We actually went to see Macarshow last week, which is how we met.
And it always makes them podcast a lot easier when you've gone out, got pissed, had fun, gone in a light club and all the rest of it with someone, which is probably why he's written Ben the dick in this book. Well, how was I going with this? However, on the meeting green's the greets down with the paper. I remember this now. Ben wrote, I think it was a message. It wasn't me as one of the other guys. Wasn't it? And you wrote some expletive on the card. And the card was just left on the table.
I then thought someone was coming up to have a word with. And then they were just stick a collecting off the table. And they slid this card that he'd written to me or one of the other guys in the load of computers on and put it in their mates bag just as they were a little clad. It's a fortunate other views to members of public. Just taking a pie back. As a, as a quite an abusive card that they probably didn't even though came from the one and only stick.
And so, it's a very, very important thing that we can move on brilliantly into what's actually going on now with Ben Collins. How long was your sting to you? You were there. You left a series 15 or 16. So that was a huge chunk of your career, which obviously brings us on wonderfully to what you're doing now. So why I'll come you're at sea, but what's now going on in the world of Ben Collins for those that don't know? YouTube was born and this entire world of content was just has been brewing.
And I still, you know, I thought everything revolved around the big screen, which actually isn't the case. I think a lot of people know, I mean, my kids, especially, they're just not really watching TV. They're all watching YouTube. And finally, it's dawned on me. That is the place to go. And so I've created my channel, Ben Collins drives nearly on 100 K subscribers. Yes, please get me over there. Come on. Let's get over the top.
And I love it. So, you know, I've been chased by tail trying to do things with TV. And just realized that they can actually just go out and just go and shoot stuff. So I've been going out doing lots of stick like things in lots of different cars, getting hold of formula. One cars are more amazing, the mom cars and other, you know, opportunities to sort of been bubbling up, which I never expected. I'm never dreamed of a driven six wheel turtle.
Until it happened this year. And then, you know, we were talking of ideas, matured, petrohelonism and Sam Hardup, so Hardup Garage. It's like, come out to see me. And I've been to see him before. It's awesome. But never like this. I mean, you know, we went out. There's a rat pack basically of influencers, social media, YouTubers, lunatics like you doing a podcast and got to meet this whole gang of people.
But it was way beyond what I imagined. For me, I was going to go out, I had some people to meet out there, go and make some connections, get something going from my channel. And but actually, you know, it was like a, I mean, it was a learning experience. It was a absolute crack, obviously, tearing up Las Vegas and calling it work. That's kind of, I had these moments out in Seaman last week where I just stopped for a minute and go,
how is this happening? And it's kind of work as well. And I was watching it from, you got so excited, you brought your finger. I did. I did break my right finger, which is not quite straight. It's less colourful. Yeah. But it's not quite straight, but it's Vegas in there. But I was following you around one of the days, obviously walking around, seeing people.
And just the amount of times you would speak to someone for less than five minutes, Freddie, Tavarish, brilliant example, he's been on the podcast. And so we go, hey man, you need to drive my car like you need to, is that a little bit surreal fear or is that just become normal? Well, I mean, kind of be lucky that people would trust me to drive their stuff for a star. And Freddie is a giant on YouTube. He's taken on this enormous project with his McLaren P1.
And there's like, my arm strong, this, you know, is you. There's loads of big, big guys out there, ammo, the detailer. So there's lots of people who are big, big stars. I think what's amazing with the YouTube crowd is that they're actually pretty grounded. They're quite humble characters. And they really open to doing stuff, which is, which is a real breath of fresh air. So I've got to know them a little bit. It isn't surprising, but I don't take it for content either.
And so Freddie said, right, once this car's finished, the views are in the multiple, multiple millions of people are loving his content, loving what he's doing with the McLaren. So I'll be the first one to drive that. It's going to be awesome. So I can't wait to see what he creates. And he's got a massive mission ahead of him. And I hope that his timeline he's able to follow to get it out ready for spring 2024, but it'll be exciting.
So from beginning racing, sitting in the car, 18 years old, going out in Silverstone, moving through a career of building up through racing, figuring out making mistakes, crashing, ending up in a random interview, I guess, which you didn't even think you'd got at first,
sitting in a Dunn's Fold test track in a port of Gabin with James May bringing up Coptatees to becoming one of the most watched, I think it was the most watched program of all time in one of the most recognizable suits in the world. That's quite a story. And then obviously what then ensued with you leaving Top Gear legal battles. That's quite the journey.
And again, now having your own YouTube channel and starting something again, it always seems that over this period, there's been times where you've had to reinvent the wheel and go again. What would you say is the most memorable or impactful moment for you? Do you think because of that thing that I did, it's now enabled me to do everything else without doubt. We wouldn't be sitting here if I hadn't been the stick. And so that was a huge moment in my career.
And one that I loved, and I felt I put everything in heart and soul into. And even small things, silly mannerisms and stuff like that, I still think that they, hopefully, I added value to that character. But without it, it would have, my career would have been completely different. I think I'd have still had a fantastic time, and I'd have done, I'd think, I'd have followed my own star and done.
Something that I would value and found another way to do something, whether it was in different walk-alive entirely or through motorsport or other things. But it's enabled me to do stuff that I love. I love writing to I've written three books. I absolutely love sharing knowledge. I love instructing. I, you know, that's why I wrote How to Drive, just to try and impart as much of my racing knowledge through the method of my career.
Through the medium of storytelling to people who are learning to drive for the first time, or people who maybe have a passion for it, want to learn how to improve their skills even further. That sort of stuff.
Or as to Martin, I went right back to the beginning to tell their story from the very beginning through all the mini biographies of all of the contributions, the engineers, not just looking at metal and pistons and, you know, cuba, inches and stuff like that, which are only interesting if you've got the context of why they matter. And that's the answer, the designer and the engineers and their philosophy. So, you know, I love all of that.
I love the creative process of making movies, whether they're James Bond or Star Wars. I've got to work on that, you know, all now. Collaborating with small teams on YouTube, coming up with crazy ideas and doing them. So, you know, it's all for me, all brings together into one place, you know, you're creating an idea, creating a story, running with it. So I love doing. And so I'm, you know, people say, do you miss it? Do you know, do you look back? I always look back.
The days as the stigma, one of a kind, you know, there was, it was a place in time you look back. It's absolutely phenomenal. I was so proud to have done it and so much fun. But actually, my day to day doesn't feel much different. So I'm, I am blessed with that. I can just crack on and keep making stuff. I find interesting. There's so many people, um, grafting out there with YouTube channels and trying to throw something in an wall and make it stick.
And you've been in two different stages of a journey, really, which is Top Gear was, obviously, just said a minute ago, I'm the most watched programs of all time with huge views. But would you say that the growing of things like your YouTube channel and the early days of actually growing Top Gear, do you think you were most miserable when Top Gear had the peak views? I've never been miserable. So, um, you know, I think, so what do you mean by that?
Do you think the hard, the times where you least enjoyed yourself towards the end of Top Gear for arguments sake when the views were at its peak where James could no longer bring the team biscuits out to the side of the track? Because it had become this corporate congo government. Sometimes we're all working to get to that stage to try and be at the top to be at the best. But it actually sounds like with your story, the most exciting times have actually been the journey that build up.
I, I loved every day I did that. I never, I would not know regrets of all, but it was fantastic. It's just that I knew that the days were coming to an end and I had to make a decision about that. I was at the crossroads that I right wish way left or right. I think Wilman summed it up best though. I mean, he was quite punchy and he said, I think it was like, we had any balls we'd have killed the show in, we'd have acted in 2008. And I thought that was the sort of time of peak Top Gear.
So that was when the ideas were very fresh. And it gets harder and harder to try and keep reinventing new storylines. It's tough. I mean, most TV shows don't live longer than eight years. It's about working YouTube channels as well. So, I think that's that sort of a fact of life. And they were sort of getting, it was getting harder for them to keep reinventing and keep creating. Yeah, the corporate side does, I suppose, doesn't help.
And when the team expands and you've got external influences on that sort of stuff, it does dampen things a bit. I know it was awesome. For me, awesome to the end. You were not the final stick though. What would you say to people, comments out there that say that you killed the stick? Well, I can sympathize because I do, I know where they're coming from with that. I mean, the fact is, I did eight years there in a time when everybody was trying to reveal who it was.
It was in the top 10 searches on Google, and you know, who is the stick was up there as a thing. It was massive pressure. The analysts were breaking into the place where it's getting changed to sort of get my ideas and stick it out. And I think I fended it off pretty well up until the point it was untenable at the peak when in what we would call the, I suppose, the, what do you want to call those years, the golden years of top gear.
So, although it comes, it came to an end and I was partly responsible for bursting the bubble. It was going to happen in the end. And so, so those ones who were disappointed with it, you know, that's tough. But at the same time, I think that why brought to it, you know, was, I think it was worth more than what. Maybe I took away when I left. Plus, you know, there was an opportunity for the next stick to at least pick a different color.
I mean, come on, they could have gone with something different. Why not? I mean, you know, Manchester United, they changed their jerseys every year. It's cool to come up with something different. I thought they could have spun off in a different direction. But actually, they kind of clamped down on what stick could do. I think that was a shame. So, you know, the next one had a tougher time. I think they just didn't let him out. He sort of locked in a shed.
I didn't know where he is. He's not missing. He's A-Wall. Don't know where he is now. I hope they're feeding him. And that he's not been put to pasture. But, but no, you know, I don't need, and we missed top gear. It's not on the screens at the moment. It's one of those things. Thank you so much for coming on and telling your story today. And in so much detail and things that people not necessarily have heard before as well.
And so those that have listened and followed today, please check out Ben's journey now on his YouTube channel, the incredible films that he's making. We're not only driving cars around and being a hooligan, but also some in-depth podcasts to self going out and meeting with people like Tavaris driving some incredible cars and rebuilding a Lancia Delta. One of your favourites. Yes. And your next on track, I'm going to go hold of this man, and I'm going to torture him. Lancia, thank you very much.
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