Episode 8 - Donna Josephson
Jen Kern: [00:00:00] Hello everyone. And welcome to the show. I'm Jen Kern, your hostess for Restaurants Reinvented. And today I'm joined by Donna Josephson, the CMO at Corner Bakery and previously the CMO at Fazoli's and McAlister's. Hi, Donna. Welcome to the show.
[00:00:40] Donna Josephson: [00:00:40] Hi, thanks for inviting me. I'm so glad to be here.
[00:00:43] Jen Kern: [00:00:43] I'm really excited to have you and hear your stories. And I know you've had several CMO positions at marquee named brands, and can't wait to dive in and hear some of your experiences and stories there. But first I'd like to set the table and talk about Donna. Let's talk about you, your journey and the path that led you to Corner Bakery today.
[00:01:04] So can you give our listeners some background there?
[00:01:07] Donna Josephson: [00:01:07] Sure. I have had a very blessed journey actually. I got pulled into marketing a while ago. I was a stay at home mom in outside of Dallas, Texas. And I was doing some community events with little preschoolers dragging them around. And I was part of the early childhood PTA, in the community in which I work.
[00:01:30] I was also part of this early morning Rotary group. Not doing the stay at home mom in a traditional sense. So I was always out and about in the community and Chick-fil-A operators actually approached myself and another friend of mine that was also in the early childhood PTA. And said, we see you guys out in the community all the time Chick-fil-A is piloting this program and we really want to have these, marketing folks right at the unit level that come in and help us.
[00:02:01] And I was like, I don't know what a Chick-fil-A is. I didn't know what Chick-Filet was. So I was a bad mom, obviously, because all moms should they're what Chick-fil-A is. But they said, come in and, it's so funny because they said, come in and taste our food and you're going to love it, which is part of their old tagline, right?
[00:02:20] It's taste it and love it for good. And it was true. I mean, I went in, I met with those operators. We ended up - we job shared, this friend of mine and I for a while. And then we split off. We ended up working for a couple of the Chick-fil-A's as what they called unit marketing directors.
[00:02:38] And our whole job at that point in time was helping open restaurants in the Dallas market but also marketing those Chick-fil-A's in Dallas. They were a emerging market for Chick-fil-A back at that time. And so we were helping drive awareness of Chick-fil-A. We were working with schools. We were doing LSM promotions.
[00:03:01] And then eventually we were asked to write, hey, how would you write a training manual for others,like you? We weren't the first ones, there was a few other people in Atlanta where Chick-fil-A's home offices that actually started the position. But we were, of course, this little dynamic duo. When we first started job sharing, working from home, doing these flex hours. We would go to work and our kids would be playing in the Chick-fil-A play lands while we were meeting with the operators and dreaming up promotions and events and, LSM tactics that were going to help drive awareness and sales, and we were successful.
[00:03:39] I went on then in Chick-fil-A to become what was called a brand equity coordinator or director for the Dallas market. And I got to work on a lot of cool things with their corporate offices. So I really wasn't in brand strategy with Chick-fil-A. But the reason I always say I was blessed to get pulled into marketing by Chick-fil-A is because, wow.
[00:04:00] I planning on being a stay at home mom. Somebody says you're really not staying at home. You're out in the community all the time. Why don't you do this from home? It's an iconic brand. I did have, I have a masters degree, so I have an MBA. And I do have a business degree but I was planning on not working for quite a while.
[00:04:18] And then you get pulled into this iconic brand. I was really blessed to be able to learn great brand strategy, even though it wasn't part of it. I was helping execute it. And so that was the foundation for me. And I think two things. One, I came in with a premiere. Restaurant marketing brand iconic in this industry in so many respects.
[00:04:40] So I have this great foundational learning so that's number one. And so from a
[00:04:46] Jen Kern: [00:04:46] let me, let me just, let me just say a second. This is brilliant, right? I mean like you, I didn't know about Chick-fil-A until, a couple of years ago, actually. I mean, I'm a northerner they didn't start coming up here for, I don't know, maybe five years ago, but until I had heard about them, so.
[00:05:02] Let's just dispel the whole bad mom myth. You're clearly not a bad mom first of all, because anyone that does PTA and BA those two things don't go together. So, Chick-fil-A brings you in, essentially, I'm inferring here. You're their target demographic. They're like, hey, you come and tell us how we should message to you. Right?
[00:05:26] Donna Josephson: [00:05:26] Pretty much. Yeah. That's essentially what they did. and I would say there was a little army of us for awhile. But it wasn't just people that look like me. Although me and my job share partner originally looked exactly alike. We're same age. We had two kids. She eventually had three.
[00:05:42] There were some folks in this role that were young. Freshly graduated from college. Individuals that were learning, marketing. But again, to your point, it's getting an army on the ground. Boots on the ground that can really activate that community. Around each and every Chick-fil-A. It's a really smart program because you have all these layers that you've got to execute but to really have people that can execute at the local level and Chick-fil-A operators, they are individual owner operators.
[00:06:14] They're not really franchisees. And they really dive into their communities. And so to activate that brand. So it was a great learning experience. But it also got that restaurant in my blood. And so I've been in restaurants ever since it just one of the cool things too.
[00:06:32] Um, because I was recruited by and worked for operators, it was kinda neat. A little different than other brands that I've worked for, but they would say we don't want you in the back of the house. Just stay out. Don't come back here. It wasn't because they didn't trust me in the back of the house.
[00:06:49] It was because they knew once I learned the back of the house, I wouldn't be out in the community. It's too easy to pull somebody in and have them working back there like, Hey, we're short, go chop those brownies. They did. Let me chop some brownies on the diagonal. I was allowed to do that for some catering but I got a very good appreciation of what it took to be successful as an operator.
[00:07:13] And so while I wasn't allowed to be back there, I got a very good appreciation of that. And I learned from them because that's who I reported to. I was helping these owner operators drive their business. And I had to understand what it took to execute before I could go out and create programs, that they could deliver on to make the guest happy and satisfied. So anyway, all in all, I always say I was blessed to have that great foundational learning. It was the first seven years of my career and it was fantastic. And a lot of people ask me, why did you leave? And because as much as I like Chick-fil-A, Applebee's recruited me.
[00:07:54] I also like a good margarita. I. took the leap and I went to Applebee's. As a field marketing manager. And so again, restaurants in my blood QSR. Chick-fil-A great. Foundational learning, hard to leave. But. Applebee's was at a point where time to where they have strong female leaders as part of that brand.
[00:08:15] And it was a time when we were growing a hundred restaurants a year at Applebee's. And again, great learning on how to build a brand. I was part of the corporate team. Not just part of the field team. And I worked my way up there to an executive director where we were doing all the roll-outs, all the national theoretical testing.
[00:08:35] Just anything that was going on my team was involved in. And so it again was just some terrific learning. And at a time when we were doing things like Weight Watchers on the menu, so that we could broaden our appeal. And back at that time, convenience. Convenience has always been king for the consumer and consumers are always looking for more convenient ways to utilize each brand, but at Applebee's back then, we were rolling out car side to go, which is curbside basically.
[00:09:05] And really helping drive guest frequency and traffic because we gave another convenient method for those moms like me to come and pick up after school. Never having to get out of the car. It's still able to enjoy Applebee's, without necessarily having to come in and have that 45 minute dining experience.
[00:09:25] You could pick it up and take it home. And so a great learning experience there. And then another great experience. I went back to QSR, went to Wendy's and it was a time with Wendy's where. we were being purchased by us shareholder activists. We were combining with the Arby's group and then we put together a Wendy's Arby's and then we split it apart.
[00:09:46] Cause we sold. During the time we were there, we sold the Arby's to Roark. So it was a very, again, a very good learning time. We also were in the Value Wars as they always have been. The Hamburger Value Wars. So it was, a time where we were learning how to position ourselves against those key competitors.
[00:10:04] And the good thing about Wendy's. And I'll go back to that operator relationship with marketing. I was part of a South region team. And as part of that South region Wendy's marketing team, we were allowed to do some things like create products with our franchisees. So there's actually some early learning there.
[00:10:26] We were doing flavored beverages. And we were doing some other things that were eventually adopted. Both Chili platters, Buffalo wings. But what it gave me, I started that foundation at Applebee's being part of the brand team or being part of the corporate team, Wendy's gave me actually that opportunity to dabble in it.
[00:10:46] So while I wasn't the R&D team at the corporate office, I was this mini project team out in the field where we were doing some product R&D. Packaging R&D. Some other R&D elements and really a terrific learning experience which I think helped catapult me then onto McAlister's.
[00:11:07] And McAlister's was actually the role where I was, as one of our board members said when they were interviewing me, they said, hey, you've always been a special teams coach. Now you get to be that the head coach. A lot of times special teams coach has come on board. And when they come on board as the head coach, they fail because they're only good at that special teams thing.
[00:11:26] And I said, I don't even know what you're talking about. I think it might be football. I think I'm not sure but okay. I will give that a shot. And see if I could be the head coach. And luckily enough, my CEO, there was Frank Paci and it's actually the CEO now at Corner Bakery. as well. But he didn't just layer everything on me all at once. He said, okay, let's fix this marketing piece. We're working on the brand positionings. We worked on the brand. Positioning catalysts are yours to amplify that brand. It was very interesting and good brand with really good franchisees.
[00:12:00] The franchisees have known all along. What McAlister's was all about. And so we included them in this brand positioning work and the work to amplify and execute that brand. And then once we got through that first initial few months, which by the way that happened like in the first 90 days that I was there, then he said, you know what, you're already acting like you've got product R&D. He goes, let me give you product R&D.
[00:12:22] And I was like, Whoa, okay. Yeah, I guess I really am a head coach now. No longer just on special teams. And it was fantastic. Just super energizing and super energizing to have a team of both wonderful folks at the corporate level that really bought into understood the brand and was helping to leverage the growth of that brand.
[00:12:46] And then a franchise organization that was just, I have never experienced since or before anything like it. Everybody was pulling in the same direction. And so, really saw some exponential growth there. We were blowing away our goals for average unit volume growth and doing some really good product innovation.
[00:13:07] And so it was fantastic while I was there. And so people might say, then, what the heck, why did you go to Fazoli's? And I was like, cause then I needed pasta. There's always is another fantastic brand. Such good quality food and all in a fast casual slash USR type setting where you could go through the drive through.
[00:13:28] And they were really at about the same point that McAlister's was where CEO there had knew the brand been there for 10 years, but they needed to solidify their brand positioning. They needed to start amplifying that they needed to start getting out the quality message about their food, ready to innovate their concept and how they looked. And that was one of the coolest things I did while I was there because, not where we re-inventing the logo messaging and just the quality amplification of that food, but then we also did a redesign. And it was the front of the house and exterior redesign in a drive through redesign that really brought the branding that was inside of a Fazoli's out to the exterior.
[00:14:16] And I would say that still, I have not seen a brand, that is probably that forward thinking and that risk taking. Their CEO is a very good risk taker. He does his homework before he takes the risks but really said, hey, we're going to be differentiated drive through is what we're all about but let's differentiate ourselves.
[00:14:36] And it was interesting. One day we were standing out in the parking lot of this very first remodel and you were able to look across and all you could see was the back of the drive through menu boards of couple of us. And then it was, I think McDonald's next door And you see the back of that menu board, a lot of times as you're driving around, or as you're driving in your rear view mirror, they looked exactly the same.
[00:14:58] Everybody's using the same kind of board, whether it's digital or otherwise. And you've got it's either backlit or it's not. Anyway, everything looks exactly the same, except for the print that you put on the inside. And so really did some innovative work building a drive through that actually looked like the systems that were inside.
[00:15:17] On the inside and not necessarily backlit, but like with goose hook lighting that came down. And so it looks soft and inviting and wonderful. So every time I see one of the people from Fazoli's posting a hey or a remodel or a new opening and I see that building it just warms my heart Cause I just think it's gorgeous just a gorgeous building with a lot of really special branding that's on the inside but Well it was at Fazoli's When CEO Frank came knocking in saying Hey help me at corner bakery Cause he had moved to corner bakery And I took that opportunity to go join that fantastic brand And so at corner bakery I am today that's where I'm at And Helping drive through a pandemic right now as we see So corner bakery I'll share with you a little bit about the brand It's a fantastic brand It is in the bakery cafe space we are well known for breakfast We're well known for great quality lunches We serve soup salad sandwiches pastas And we have fantastic bakery items little baby bunks and a great tasting muffins in the morning and we have really good cream cakes as well that cinnamon cream cakes that are just awesome And one of the first things I did when I got there though it seemed like the brand had been the same For quite a long period of time And when we were reaching out to consumers are saying that's the same salad I ate back in 1989 on the first Oak probably a little bit of an exaggeration but still you get my point And so consumers were asking for things to be refreshed And the pipeline was pretty dry It's one of the first assignments When I got to corner bakery three years ago it was to get that pipeline going and Really do some rapid innovation and to bring the menu into this new era where there's some healthiness and giving the consumers what they want from a taste perspective and creating new news and excitement on the menu as well as starting to amplify the brand Yeah And then all the quality things that go on there We do a fantastic catering business as well It's almost 30% in some cafes It's almost 30% of their business it has been a fun time helping pull this around We've also done redesign at this brand which I'm very proud of as well and it's so fun To be a chief marketing officer and to create food and to create marketing programs But it's really fun to be an interior designer of a restaurant brand And I always think of myself like Hey if someone were to come and design my home they'd have to get to know me You'd have to get to know what I like we designed it for our customers How we want them to feel when they come in and all of that So that's another joyous part of Being part of this role
[00:18:15] Jen Kern: [00:18:15] Yeah Yeah Wow What a journey
[00:18:18] Donna Josephson: [00:18:18] It has been a journey Yes it has Which has been fun I look back on it and I go wow I'm a lucky girl That's been pretty good bride there
[00:18:26] Jen Kern: [00:18:26] I'll say yeah in five really neat Brands very different but brands that you could relate to as a mom and foodie and having someone that brings you with them that's one of the biggest Privileges right Or pleasures and the ultimate compliment like Hey can you come to this company with me now I've moved to this company that clearly shows that you earned your stripes so to speak and going with the coaching analogy making it to the head coach position And I'm curious since you've been at so many brands what would you say is the one thing that you've learned that you've carried with you that's really helped you the most through each different position
[00:19:06] Donna Josephson: [00:19:06] Yeah I think quality people and being true to who I am and letting people be true to who they are teams at each of these brands have been one of the most important things And I'll go back to that foundation of where I was in the very beginning And we're even one of the Kathy brothers would come and talk to me and an opening and ask me how I was what I was doing what I was contributing what they were thankful for that I was doing So taking what you learned from those people all along the way and keeping the good things and throwing off the things that Maybe he didn't make you feel so good I always believe that you learn a little bit of something from everybody Sometimes it's how you want to be And sometimes it's what not to be but teams and people are so important and as a newcomer to some of these brands and sometimes taking on a new team where people are already existing in their role listening hearing what people have to say discovering what makes people work Putting people together and helping them find ways to be motivated as a team It's the only way that you gain success at every single role that I've had I'm not the smartest person in the room every day at one time somebody said to me I'm just tired of being the smartest person in the room And I was like wow that must be cool because that's never happened to me At least not on every even if you're smart in one area you're never the smartest on every subject really So you learn from everyone you learn from your team you learn from your cross functional partners And that's the other thing I have to say is that respecting operators respecting the people who actually bring your brand to life every day it's very important and actually listening to them is very important as well I would say I've also learned to push It was when I was at McAlister's we brought in a lady that to speak and she was from Harvard and her name's probably gonna escape me at the moment but I might remember it later but she came in and spoke and to the whole group at our franchise convention So here's a room of several hundred people She's like what is marketing's number one job And nobody was raising their hand and obviously I had set her up so I had to be the smartest person in the room and raise my hand cause I was the marketer So you know what my job is right Drive sales profitable sales and traffic And she's like no wrong chief marketing officer She goes your job is to push And I was like Oh okay That's interesting And then I really loved what she had to say Cause she was speaking to the operators in the room and she said marketing's job is to push into fine what it is that those consumers want And sometimes people don't believe or people in the organization may not believe that they can do it or they'll tell you all the reasons that they can't do it And you have to know Yeah I can push a little bit harder because I think you can and other times it's okay I get it I've pushed too far You're pushing back hard enough This is for real So you can't be afraid to push especially as women a lot of times we don't like that Cause then we're called pushy or aggressive or whatever But you have to learn to have your voice and to push a little
[00:22:30] Jen Kern: [00:22:30] Oh I love that
[00:22:31] Donna Josephson: [00:22:31] Also know when to pull back you just can't be the aggressor all the time But but yeah you have to know when it's right and stand by the guest and the conviction and the brand That's your job
[00:22:42] Jen Kern: [00:22:42] that must've been so humbling and eye opening for you at the same time right Because Wow the push is important And I want to talk about it a little bit Yeah Cause it's something that I've observed I've been in the industry in the sense that there are a lot of brands that are still viewing I've seen them still viewing marketing as you know what a friend of mine called arts and crafts Or just advertising or the swag and it's what Wait a minute no but the push that I think you're talking about that this woman was alluding to is a push that's also a pull like pushing cross departmentally To advocate for product and menu innovations and exterior and interior redesigns and yes To push from a sales person Yeah It's about not being your only perspective but we have to also keep an eye on the revenue and what's producing and what are our top producing items and then to push and pull from a team And like you were talking about a motivation perspective and if you've got franchisees how are you doing that and that must've been really Eyeopening for you so took that and how did that impact your
[00:23:46] Donna Josephson: [00:23:46] I took it as permission
[00:23:47] Jen Kern: [00:23:47] okay
[00:23:48] Donna Josephson: [00:23:48] All right So it's yeah that's it I have permission because To your point you're an advocate in this role you're an advocate for the consumer right You're an advocate for that consumer experience
[00:24:01] Jen Kern: [00:24:01] that's what it is You're pushing for the guests right
[00:24:03] Donna Josephson: [00:24:03] you really are You're pushing for the guest and the brand and how are we representing the guest through our brand lens to make sure that we're doing the right thing Sure I cannot give a bad experience But there may be some things that we need to change so that it's easier for everybody creating those win-win wins So the guest wins first the operators can win in their execution levels and our bottom line wins So it's pushing for that And I think a lot of times especially in the restaurant industry operators are very important because like I said before without them you cannot win You have to be able to execute to win a hundred percent on the flip side you have to have programs that guests want to partake in You have to have a user experience that the guest enjoys and wants to return to in order to be successful And you have to keep changing and challenging and coming up with new things especially in this time It's changing And someone said this to me just yesterday It's changing at the speed of the guest I've heard changing at the speed of light That's good but Oh that's so fast I don't think I could do it but I can change and try to change at the speed of what the guest needs and wants and try to be out in front of them a little bit And that's when I think magic happens I don't know that I've ever been as far out in front of the guests as I'd like to be yet but it's a goal
[00:25:36] Jen Kern: [00:25:36] yeah Yeah
[00:25:37] Donna Josephson: [00:25:37] and that's not just from a product that's product technology that it helps the experience It's all facets So yeah I think push has been a bad word and I took it as permission for that Not to be a bad word any longer
[00:25:53] Jen Kern: [00:25:53] Yeah Absolutely Well and I love how you said we always have to have that lens unfortunately as women have wait a minute am I being too pushy And no we have to own it We have to own it and embrace it and be courageous and bold And it sounds like you've done a great job of doing that while balancing keeping your team first and that's huge let's talk a little bit about what you're doing now you're talking about being innovative and coming up and staying in front of the guest How are you staying in front of the guests right now at corner bakery in the middle of a pandemic
[00:26:27] Donna Josephson: [00:26:27] Yeah interesting times Huh It's a couple things one super proud of the team I'm talking about the whole corner bakery team when this hit And I think like for everybody it was like wow we're down 10 we've been tracking positive sales comp sales Oh we're down 10 Oh we're down 15 And then Within one day it was like Oh my God we're down 30 So what is it that we need to do right now today Limited menu So within a week we had a limited menu because sales were down people were scared to come to work we needed to be more efficient So we peeled back the menu We went for the highest performing mix and we just got that out And we said everything that had been necessary before to do a rollout Suddenly became unnecessary and we could work from paper menus We were doing paper disposable venues before the health authorities told us to have disposable menus We just did it right away so we had that done put them off in black and white They don't have to have pretty pictures on them anymore So you know all the rules went out the window and it was like being released handcuffs off The other thing I was really proud and the team pivoted and this was the ops team Basically we had talked about curbside for convenience We had conversations about that thought that we needed it but it wasn't a high priority 24 hours curbside just like that And then marketing was like Oh we're struggling to get the curbside signs so would you usually Hey marketing can have the stuff there in a week so printed delivered but they were faster than we were technology and ops and it was Great I was amazed by that I was proud of them for doing that we ended up closing a lot of our cafes We have corporate owned We're corporate I should say about 80% in about 20% of franchise
[00:28:25] Jen Kern: [00:28:25] You have a total of 180 is that right
[00:28:27] Donna Josephson: [00:28:27] Yes 184 we ended up closing all of the corporate cafes And for so many reasons health safety lots and lots of urban locations a lot of the urban areas were just no one was there It was like zombie apocalypse in downtown urban areas for awhile and so for lots of reasons we decided to do that And a handful of our franchisees stayed open beyond all through the first few weeks of a pandemic And so we were there to support them And supporting them with limited menu some of them have drive-throughs we have very few six that actually have drive-throughs but it was helpful for them to have that because those are our cafes that are positive through this whole thing but anyway so we stayed closed We began reopening in may So end of may And so the team has really pivoted we've done the social distancing piece We've created elements to keep the cafes safe to keep the employees safe to keep the guests safe we are fortunate that we have a lot of patio seating and so we encourage people to do that But I'd say the biggest thing is we quickly rolled up at curbside to go which gave another convenience option We had already been in third party delivery and so we also turned on delivery through our own website It was something we were working on but hadn't rolled out So we quickly rolled that out as well So that as we were opening as our franchisees were staying open they had the ability no matter how you visited whether you went to our website or third party delivery website you could experience the brand and you could get it delivered Or you can pick it up we've done a lot along those lines Technology-wise we've added family meals to the menu so we pivoted really quick and put together some family meals and you've always been able to get bulk meals through catering and online ordering at corner bakery but over our counter site we just put together some really quick options for families and then Now what we're working on is actually new menu news So we'll have all the cafes open here shortly And we are working on menu news and new innovations through technology to help you get more bakery items because usually bakery is just something that people pick up in cafe and to deliver a good experience we've kept a lot of the bakery items off of online ordering because imagine bakery is fresh baked daily
[00:30:55] Jen Kern: [00:30:55] Yeah
[00:30:56] Donna Josephson: [00:30:56] And so it's really hard to manage Hey what if somebody orders 50 muffins via online ordering I'm out of muffins right Or a hundred muffins or whatever It's not something you can just recover Cause it's a bake It's a baked item And so you needed ways to show sold out and whatnot So we've got that through technology We're getting ready to put that out there so people can get those sweets because they really need sweets and great bakery items in a pandemic I mean come on other than good Mac and cheese what else do you need you need those sweets And one of our franchisees said I am selling Twice as many brownies as I used to sell I'm selling twice as many lemon bars I'm selling twice as many of these during pandemic than what are used to And I was like I can understand that a hundred percent I would have a cookie a day so anyway so we're rolling out some things that way And then September 15th we are going to be bringing in our vegetarian meatless options would be on beef So we're going to be doing a promotion with them Yeah So we're very excited about that It was actually planned for April and because the pandemic we just put it on hold and it is hard These are handmade handhold meatballs with beyond beef but we've added our special spices to it And so we're going to be launching that in September So getting back to the new
[00:32:15] Jen Kern: [00:32:15] Is that a pasta That's a sandwich
[00:32:18] Donna Josephson: [00:32:18] It'll be beyond beef meatball panini and pasta Pasta linguine Yeah And red sauce it is so good and it's great if you're a vegetarian Yeah It's an opportunity to have a meatless meal that is absolutely delicious So we tested that for a while out in California in January and it went really well So we are looking forward to getting back to what we had planned And launching some of these great tasting menu items Yeah
[00:32:47] Jen Kern: [00:32:47] I like to talk about reinvention and you've touched on some ways that you're reinventing the menu and thinking about the future I'm also curious cause there's a lot of trends that are being reported right now through the pandemic Like you mentioned places with drive through are doing really well the breakfast day part is not doing as well there are trends around obviously the use of the third party delivery going up exponentially what are the trends And you mentioned the brownie and the comfort food trends Definitely What are the trends that you're seeing with your customers and your day parts and what are the things that you're looking to Create in a reinvention sort of way for the future that you think will be more attractive for those guests
[00:33:29] Donna Josephson: [00:33:29] so what we're seeing from a day part perspective is exactly what you just talked about So breakfast we used to be a really great spot we still are We still are really great spot
[00:33:39] Jen Kern: [00:33:39] Yeah But people just aren't going out as much for breakfast
[00:33:41] Donna Josephson: [00:33:41] They're not going out and I was reading through some of the research that we did just before actually it was finished in March right before the pandemic And we were the spot in a lot of our markets for a good sit-down breakfast Sit down a good sit down lunch people would say this is where I go When I want to socialize I want to be on this patio I want to be here So as I was reading through all that actually just yesterday I was like wow we are a place where people like to come and gather and we've always known that But through this research it was solidified So for breakfast we've seen that day part go down and of course it's not as robust part of that may be self-inflicted because we've also reduced our hours So we've also seen the dinner day part decline a little bit but again instead of being open from six to nine 6:00 AM to 9:00 PM We're right now we're open seven to seven because business is slower people aren't as out as much reduce staff reduce periods So we've been looking at Hey do we extend those dinner hours especially but breakfast is down lunches where it's happening for us still to go obviously is up And dining room dining is down And a most of our dining rooms many of our dining rooms I should say are still closed We're still closed So you can only enjoy us enjoy being the keyword You can only enjoy us via delivery take out or sit on one of our fantastic patios which are socially distance patios in those markets like LA LA is our biggest market And in LA Chicago you are still only able to do patio seating at this point so those are some of the things we've seen I think that what this has done as far as reinvention I think we were headed this direction anyway where dining rooms were smaller needed to be smaller We have big dining rooms they needed to be smaller because people are doing things and they're experiencing brands in different ways through take out and to go and delivery And I think what it did is it catapulted us forward in that and that this is how it's going to be going forward I do believe that the trend is going to be less dining in and I think there's going to be more To go and delivery continuing I do However think people love to gather They love to eat
[00:36:16] Jen Kern: [00:36:16] Yeah
[00:36:17] Donna Josephson: [00:36:17] They Love to drink and they love to socialize so that's not going to change And I think that's why in California even though the dining rooms are closed we're still seeing I wouldn't say good by any means but we're still seeing people coming in and experiencing the brand and sitting out on those patios because they want that So I would say those are some of the things I think we're going to see continue to see
[00:36:39] Jen Kern: [00:36:39] Are you looking as well for footprint areas
[00:36:42] Donna Josephson: [00:36:42] Yeah And we were before we have a couple franchisees that have opened drive-through locations those are the ones that are staying positive right now And you can have a smaller footprint on an end cap in a drive through and still do very well so yeah we will be looking for the future you don't need a 4,500 square foot building necessarily with a lot of dining room seating in order to be successful you do need to be able to stage for to go To stage for third party delivery to stage for catering you've got to have space to be able to do that and operate well But I think our systems for food delivery and how people enjoy the brand and if they're enjoying brand inside or outside of the patio I think the footprint to be smaller The other thing for the future it's like how do you maximize is there ways just to do some delivery out of your facility in the evening Maybe not even be open in the dining room but do your highest selling things for delivery into the evening further or take advantage of ghost kitchens which is one thing that we were getting ready to execute prior to pandemic just to see how that would perform for us And it may be a great way to do some market entry so people can get the great tasting food but not necessarily come to me
[00:38:01] Jen Kern: [00:38:01] Yeah How many States are you in
[00:38:03] Donna Josephson: [00:38:03] 26
[00:38:04] Jen Kern: [00:38:04] Twenty six Okay Yeah So you could maybe expand your footprint there and guest profile I really have been intrigued by the outdoor trend you keep talking about your patio and we have one here in Tysons where there's a nice little patio there unfortunately it's the one at the ball so there's not a ton of it's tables But I could I love seeing all these people eating outside and I love to eat outside and I'm curious to see if some restaurants are going to start getting more outdoor space so they can expand those patios and have people sitting outside Cause it seems like that's particularly where the climate allows Right
[00:38:36] Donna Josephson: [00:38:36] So it was very interesting at one of our cafes in Chicago they do not have an outdoor patio seating area but They went ahead and made one So what they do they worked with the landlord and then they worked with us city and the city said Hey we can give you permission for this If you show us the seating do the diagram you have to have signage that directs people And so they created an outdoor dining area for corner bakery at this cafe that didn't have an outdoor dining area And then I've seen some really other inventive things my brother has a restaurant At West Hollywood called Pura Vita and it's a vegan restaurant and pizzeria next door And he too he had no outdoor seating and he just said Hey he bought plexi it's on the sidewalk out front It kind of reminds you of except for all the traffic and the cars on the street But it reminds you of when you're in Europe or if you're in France and you're just walking down the street and everybody's dining out with a little canopy Um but he put plexi up around server but it could be socially distance the whole industry is being very inventive right now
[00:39:42] Jen Kern: [00:39:42] Yeah And you've touched on technology a few times and some of the innovations you're driving there I'm curious how difficult is it for you right now with all the different channels that people are ordering whether it's third party delivery or through your website or curbside how hard is it for you as The head marketer for the brand to deliver that unified experience with all the different tech systems out there we package and deliver the same way if it's going out to go so I don't know if I'm as concerned about that The hardest part is managing the menu at all of the third party Yeah The tablet farms
[00:40:20] Donna Josephson: [00:40:20] Yes And we've integrated with some but even then the ingestion of the menu through our POS it works for some it doesn't work for others There's certain things that we may change that works for one It doesn't work for the others And then there's one that's just not integrated at all So you have to give them enormously time which I would say Is a bigger concern because that is where the brand sort of breaks down a little bit it's funny we had an conversation with one of the third party delivery vendors yesterday that is integrated with our POS but that can't properly adjust the menu so said the only option is to take that off your menu And I was like okay
[00:41:02] Jen Kern: [00:41:02] No not a good option
[00:41:04] Donna Josephson: [00:41:04] You are one player this is across the board We can't ingest this kind of modifier for any brand And I was like yeah they understand it's not ideal And that they have some things that they need to fix so I would say that's been one of the bigger challenge other than just the brand The food delivers Most of our food delivers pretty well especially the pastas they're excellent via delivery and some of the breakfast items but the technology I call it the cobbling together of all the pieces and then the menu management And that's where I think it breaks down for delivering on their brand experience when these people or these other tech partners that you're relying on to deliver your experience can't necessarily get your menu uploaded correctly for the consumer to get what is correct
[00:41:52] Jen Kern: [00:41:52] Yeah That's tough That's tough We actually
[00:41:55] Donna Josephson: [00:41:55] it's a daily and weekly challenge
[00:41:56] Jen Kern: [00:41:56] Yeah We call it menu mayhem
[00:41:58] Donna Josephson: [00:41:58] Yeah that s perfect
[00:41:59] Jen Kern: [00:41:59] cause we've heard so many operators complain about it That We essentially did our own little mini campaign around menu mayhem And we did take the time to build a single menu management platform and make sure that it has the bi-directional integrations with third party But like you said there's still always like working with the third party delivery providers is it's never really that easy and their system limitations too So getting all this tech up to speed and keeping that brand Consistent with your consumer and positive is the most important thing for us right now Let's talk a little bit about your team we talked in our first call about motivation strategies and keeping motivated and I had written down something you said cause I love that you said we get up every day and just kind of like shake it all off and start again And I wrote down Oh the daily shake off it like that
[00:42:48] Donna Josephson: [00:42:48] Daily shake off Well I mean honestly that's one of the hardest parts right now I mean I look to them for motivation They're looking to me for motivation we've been working remotely now since March I've been here at the Lake which is fabulous but I've been here since March 13th I have been allowed to leave so I've been off the street but I still my team has been working remotely We see each other like this via zoom or teams call occasionally we do the occasional happy hour but there have been mornings where we meet every morning now nine 30 central and we meet and we're talking about what has happened in the last 24 hours because sometimes things are changing at the speed of the pandemic
[00:43:32] Jen Kern: [00:43:32] Yeah Yeah
[00:43:33] Donna Josephson: [00:43:33] and so things are changing rapidly We need to pivot rapidly So we meet every single morning but some mornings those calls are Quite honestly 30 minutes of I need to get this off my chest and this is what is happening and how much longer of this So and then we do we shake it off you just shake it off and then you get on with it because but people need the opportunity The team needs the opportunity to release that so whether the call is a quick hit on getting things done or it's a quick hit on Please I need help that's been helpful We have had some happy hours too which have been those are always interesting the problem is the bartender doesn't come around enough during these zoom happy hours. There's no refill methodology.
[00:44:21] Jen Kern: [00:44:21] So true. It's like, yeah, I run down to the kitchen.
[00:44:24] Donna Josephson: [00:44:24] I know. So we need to work on that. It is really quite interesting, this whole thing and everyone being so virtual and every day is so different. Like some days I get locked in and I'm like, I'm in my flow. You're so in your flow or like by yourself, if you do you forget the team it's out of sight, and I love how you're saying it.
[00:44:42] Jen Kern: [00:44:42] Like asking your team, letting them release, like what's on their mind, like what's going on in their world. We're not seeing the dailies. We're not seeing them and you pick a lot of from people seeing their like body language and how are they walking in the office that day. And gosh, we're missing so much of that.
[00:44:57] And. Remembering that we're all human and we're all in a pandemic and we all need each other right now. And that's great. That's great that you're doing that every day.
[00:45:07] Donna Josephson: [00:45:07] I'm getting to know people's pets better than I've ever known them.
[00:45:11] We've got a pet, one of my pet at any moment, she could sound off. She's extremely loud. And then, one of the other person's pets on the team, her name's Meryl. And it's a cat and she will ask her question and Haley will come off mute.
[00:45:24] And meow. You know, just like, is that a yes vote from there? She's now a member of the team. I'm pretty sure she's going to start asking for compensation.
[00:45:33] Jen Kern: [00:45:33] Yeah. We're all loving on our pets for sure. And they're just getting this through. So as we wrap here, this has just been so fun and interesting and thank you so much for taking the time out of your day to share your story and your journey with other folks in the industry and other marketers.
[00:45:49] I'd like to ask a couple of quick questions at the end. what would you say is your biggest challenge today?
[00:45:54]Donna Josephson: [00:45:54] I'd say we, just sorta hit it off. I think it's keeping people motivated, keeping the faith, getting the brand set for survival of the pandemic and making sure that our franchisees are surviving and thriving again. I think that's our biggest challenge.
[00:46:15]Jen Kern: [00:46:15] And what advice would you want to give to other marketers today?
[00:46:19]Donna Josephson: [00:46:19] I think whether it's a pandemic or any time, actually, I think if you're a marketer, you need to make sure that you always have a voice. I think you are the team member that needs to think and dream very big, and have a vision and be true. Be true to the brand and the consumer. And don't forget to push.
[00:46:41] Jen Kern: [00:46:41] It's beautiful. That's beautiful. I think that's a good way to end.
[00:46:45] Push it, girl, push it,
[00:46:49] Such a pleasure having you here today. And again, for all of our poddies listening out there, please run out in, uh, find a patio Corner Bakery patio and bring up some business, right? Yeah. And, can't wait to see what you do next with your vegetarian meatballs
[00:47:04]
[00:47:04] They do sound delicious. And it is lunchtime here in DC.
[00:47:08] Donna Josephson: [00:47:08] They are so good. Here too.
[00:47:10] Jen Kern: [00:47:10] So thanks for joining show.
[00:47:13] Donna Josephson: [00:47:13] Sure. Thank you.
[00:47:15]
[00:47:15]
[00:47:15]Jen Kern: [00:47:15] Hi, everyone. Jen Kern again here. Just wanted to really thank you all for stopping by and listening to the show. Also wanted to give a huge shout out to the team teams that are really helping me to make this all possible. The guys over at Motion, the podcast production company, they've just been absolutely phenomenal to work with.
[00:47:33] Justin Brown and Tristan Pelligrino. Thank you so much for all your mentorship and guidance and help with this. And then my wing member here, my copilot Alysha Hemani, has been the one, really bringing these to life and helping us put this podcast on the map and connect the community. And finally, thanks to all the restaurant marketers who are showing up big time and saying yes.
[00:47:55] So I just wanted to give a quick plug moment of gratitude. You all are amazing. Thank you so much. Keep doing what you're doing