Qu - Restaurants Reinvented - Alice Crowder - Transcript
[00:00:00] Jen Kern: Hi, everyone. Thanks for stopping by at Restaurants Reinvented. My guest today is Alice Crowder. She's the new CMO at Krystal Restaurants and she's reigniting the brand with aggressive growth and leadership style. In fact, she's only been in the role six months and has already launched several new initiatives, including a new website and a mobile app.
[00:00:22] But what we really talked about was balancing, innovation, process and data. And the fusion of technology and marketing. In fact, the importance of marrying those two things together, given the speed of change in the industry. We also had some fun talking about modernizing the guest experience. And in Alice's words, it's all about craveability and convenience and putting the fun and joy back into the guest experience.
[00:00:50] Amen to that. Enjoy the show, everyone. Hope you'll have as much fun as I did.
[00:00:55] Hello everyone and welcome back to Restaurants Reinvented. Today, I am here [00:01:00] with Alice Crowder, the CMO of Krystal Restaurants. Hello, Alice and welcome to the show.
[00:01:06] Alice Crowder: Hi, Jen. Thank you so much for having me.
[00:01:08] Jen Kern: Thanks so much for joining. I'm really excited to dig in and talk to you about this topic of, of process and data and how you work together with process and data and ideation and instinct.
[00:01:19] And so, you know, last week I was telling you I recorded an episode with Greg Creed, the former CEO and CMO at Yum! Brands. He was the CMO at Taco Bell and he was really going back several times to this idea of marketers not getting away from instinct and ideation. And that definitely based on my time at FStech this past week. Gosh, I heard a lot about data and process and so it really got me thinking.
[00:01:44] So I wanted to ask you, when it comes to following a process and keeping true to marketing creativity and ideation and instinct, how do you do that?
[00:01:56] Alice Crowder: Yeah, it's definitely, It's definitely a good marriage of [00:02:00] both. Right? I think instinct and innovation are critical, creativity is critical, but you have to support that with an infrastructure of process to get to the best place. You know, we, we use a funnel process. We talk about a funnel process because everybody has ideas.
[00:02:16] You know, I have ideas, my boss has ideas. My customers have ideas. My father has a thousand ideas that he wants to tell me all the time. And probably about one out of a hundred of those are actually good ideas and they all sound great to us. Right? We call them vampire ideas 'cause they sound great to us,
[00:02:30] in the time period. But you wake up the next morning and they're nasty, cold ash you can't do anything with. So I do think that when you start a process, you should make a lot of room for innovation and creativity at the start to get as many ideas as possible, but then you evaluate and execute through a process so that you get the strongest of those ideas into your restaurants.
[00:02:54] Jen Kern: So, how do you know if it's a good idea or a bad idea?
[00:02:58] Alice Crowder: Yeah. You, that's where the [00:03:00] process comes in, right? So we use a process that has kind of three stage gates. I will tell you that I've been doing this for 30 years and about 75% of the time, I guess wrong. So I will, I will be so excited about an idea and we'll go through testing and my consumers will say, "You're an idiot." Or there'll be an idea that I would have discounted out of hand and we go through the process and people are like, "This is amazing."
[00:03:27] And so I think what your process does, helps you make those determinations instead of counting on your gut because your gut is your gut. It's not the gut of all of your customers. So what we would do is we try to get a bulk of ideas every six weeks. We have bunch of different ways to do that. We take those ideas and wind them down to just a couple of key sentences that we put through a concept sort. So we might put a hundred ideas through a [00:04:00] sort every six weeks is our goal.
[00:04:02] Jen Kern: Can you give the example?
[00:04:03] Alice Crowder: Sure. So I might say, and, and no picture or anything, just to give you like a little idea. Krystal is, I'm proud to introduce our new Country Fried Steak Krystal. It's everything you love about country fried steak, but on our little slider button available for a limited time. That's as short as it is. We do that
[00:04:23] monadically, which means that guests only see respondents, only see a certain grouping of products that don't overlap. So you might see something on Country Fried Krystal. I might see something on a Shrimp Po'Boy will each evaluate it. But it takes out the comparative bias that you get when somebody sees a whole bunch of ideas.
[00:04:46] So when you get those results back, let's say, I put a hundred in, I can look at them by some metrics like purchasing tempt, uniqueness, special trip and understand by the idea which ones have the most potential [00:05:00] in the guest imagination. And those are the ones we focus on. So let's say you get 10 from a hundred, 'cause that's about the ratio of what we... Then we would
[00:05:10] take those ideas and really work on them. So what does a Shrimp Po'Boy look like? Is that five shrimp? Is that six shrimp? Is that four shrimp? Does it need rémoulade? Does it need lettuce? Does it, what's the best build? And we go through a series of guesses, honestly to figure that out and put them through a simulated market test.
[00:05:30] Again, it's monadic. So in that case, we make a menu that is our current menu plus where our LTO would go. We have an advertisement for that product and then we take that menu and put it out in the world against a guest profile and they tell us how they would order. So this tells us how quickly they go through the menu,
[00:05:54] at what rate they're likely to order the LTO and what they're trading from. [00:06:00] So I know from that, so from the concept sort, I know what sounds like a good idea. From the simulated market test, I know which ideas are strongest and likely to get the most pull on an LTO basis. When we rounded out with a CLT or central location test, which is a quantitatively significant taste test,
[00:06:20] so I have an idea and I found out, "Oh, people love this idea of a Country Fried Krystal." And when I put it on merchandising, it looks like 7 or 8% of people are going to take that, which is a really great LTO rate. How do I now make sure that the taste experience matches up to the promise of the concept and the beauty of the shot on the SNT.
[00:06:42] And that's where we bring people in. They actually taste it, sometimes versions of it and rate it along a number of different metrics, including something called JAR scores, just about rate. So that tells me, "Woah, people like this version, but there was too much gravy. People like this [00:07:00] version, but there wasn't enough pepper."
[00:07:01] And in that way I can really dial into what the exact recipe should be for a particular item.
[00:07:09] Jen Kern: Wow. So this is very, I mean, it's very detailed. And it's also, it really does sound like you're marrying ideation with process, which is super cool, and data, right? So this whole process you're talking about, you're, you're pulling data around all these different elements. And I know, I think you said you use data centrals and some other things, but, and then you have this, this test group, which is, I would say a minimum or your focus groups, like a minimum of a hundred people.
[00:07:36] Like what's your average sample size there?
[00:07:38] Alice Crowder: So for the CLT, yeah. It's between a 100 and 125 people. We actually though, Jen, pull out focus groups from those test groups of about 25 people, three groups of eight, usually.
[00:07:51] Jen Kern: Okay.
[00:07:52] Alice Crowder: Not where I can get at the more qualitative piece. For example, I have a milkshake right now that tests great. Everybody loves it.
[00:07:59] No one [00:08:00] knows what to call it. So I put it in the focus group and say, "How would you describe this? Like help me out. When would you buy this? Is this holiday, is this not?" And so, you get it some of those softer, more qualitative pieces by pulling out a subsection of the more quantitative group.
[00:08:18] Jen Kern: Okay. Okay. And then say, you've got, so you said it about 10% of these ideas actually come to fruition and are implemented. And so then when they're implemented, what are the other things you do to continue to test and monitor? Because I would assume that there's a certain fallout after that as well.
[00:08:35] Alice Crowder: Yeah. So we use LTOs in two ways. So the first way that we use them is to see how it reacts in the marketplace. Does it have a space on the menu permanently? So if you have, if you're an LTO that works good, two to three times consistently in different seasons, it's probably a good candidate for the menu.
[00:08:57] We have a process around evaluating that, [00:09:00] but that's something we would consider for core menu. The other set of reasons we use an LTO for is about seasonal relevance. So. I want people to experience a flavor that triggers a memory and something joyful in a specific time. So is that pulled pork during the summer?
[00:09:21] Is that a gingersnap cookie during the winter? Is that shrimp during Lent? And those, we know aren't going to be on the menu all the time, but they're there to kind of anchor the guests to us at a very specific time and set of palate affinities, if you will.
[00:09:41] Jen Kern: So these examples around LTOs, menu items, let's say there's another idea that you or someone on your team or maybe your CEO has and comes to you and says, "Hey, I'll just use the example of, I know you guys do a lot, promotion at sports games. And I think I saw university of Georgia is one of your partners. Football.
[00:09:58] Yay. Yes, [00:10:00] love it. So, say you come up with another idea that's like that, that's something you guys have never tried before though, how, would you also run that through this type of process?
[00:10:08] Alice Crowder: A little bit modified process, but similar. So we want to make sure that we know a lot about our guests and we're learning all the time. You know, we do annual awareness and usage studies on a fairly regular basis and brand tracker work on a fairly regular basis to tell us how people are experiencing our brand and how they want to experience it.
[00:10:32] So from that I know what things are likely to be most relevant to our target. And that's where we start. So somethings we dip our foot in, like we did with the SCC and sometimes we go whole hog, a lot depends on the level of investment and man hours. So the more risk, the more investment, the more research we do. If it is, if it's something quick and easy, we might just try it and [00:11:00] see how it goes.
[00:11:00] Jen Kern: I got to ask, like, 'cause this is a really, I think it's a very unique and cool sort of process and structure you've developed here. How, how hard was it to get buy in internally for this? Is this something you had to educate your executive team and management level teams on and get buy in early on and then to kind of give you a blessing?
[00:11:19] Or is it something you rolled out, you know, kind of slowly? And, if you've been in your role now, just how
[00:11:24] long, like six months?
[00:11:26] Alice Crowder: Six months.
[00:11:26] Jen Kern: Six months. Okay.
[00:11:27] Alice Crowder: And I'm laughing because it's the same process that you go through at every cup, and develop this the last time I was at Krystal. I was at Krystal from 2014 to 2018 running calendar and innovation, and then went to Tropical Smoothie, where I put in the same kind of, of process. And then when I came back with the new ownership group, we put it in again and you always get a little bit of pushback because everybody feels
[00:11:51] like they know. I mean, restaurants are one of those things that we all have so much experience in and affinity for. We all feel like we're experts at [00:12:00] marketing. And, you know, my father-in-law will always call me and be like, "You know what you guys should have?" "Thank you, Tom". We'll, we'll, but it's the learning comes from success.
[00:12:10] So, I always ask leadership teams to give me a couple of promotions to prove it out. And as soon as you can show a tie to results with process, there's a lot more acceptance of it. And then they really start to engage with it. I was presenting to franchisees a few weeks ago with my president, Tom Steger,
[00:12:33] who's an amazing leader. And he was talking about the process and saying, "No, I really like this item, but she told me she doesn't care what I think. It's what the guest thinks." And I said, "That's exactly right." I mean, I love the validation. I want you to be happy, but I really don't care what you think. I care what a significant, statistically significant group of our consumers things.
[00:12:51] And the more we educate people on that, the easier it is.
[00:12:56] Jen Kern: Right. I think it's a really nice message for [00:13:00] marketers and, and leadership executives overall. I mean, just this whole idea, like you said, like as marketers, everyone's got an opinion and that's what makes it fun, honestly. I mean, can make it brutal, but it makes it fun too. But just the whole like, well, let's pause a second because we all get ideas from people and sometimes very, very influential people.
[00:13:18] Like the board, our board loves to give me ideas, you know, and the CEO. And I have learned, over the years, it's taken some time to kind of pause and not just immediately say 'yes' or 'no', like based on my instinct, like what you just said, but to pause and kind of step back, do some research, talk to teams, talk to guests, like you're saying, do, do some testing and then say,
[00:13:42] "This is what, this is what our guests are telling us, or this is what, what I found through my research." And that may or may not have been my instinct overall, but he has a really great message for marketers to just kind of, you know, learn how to say, "Great idea. Let me go check with our audience". Right?
[00:13:58] Alice Crowder: I think that's super [00:14:00] smart. Yes. And I, I do think that you answered with a question. So when people say, when I get a, "Hey, have you thought about? Tell me why you think that that resonates with the guests? Tell me a little more about it". Because oftentimes with even knowing it, they're articulating a need they think we aren't meeting.
[00:14:18] And so the product or the idea that they're giving us might not be quite right. But if that need is correct, we can go to figure out how to fill it.
[00:14:27] Jen Kern: Yeah. Yeah. That's the other thing Greg talks about. Need state, like making sure that if you, you know, he was saying, "Segmentation always isn't the right way to go, but if you can do it around need state, what is the need state, then 9 times out of 10, you're going down the right path."
[00:14:41] Alice Crowder: A 100%.
[00:14:42] Jen Kern: I love that thought.
[00:14:43] The curiosity, yes. Always, you know, answering with a question.
[00:14:46] Alice Crowder: Yeah. Yeah, because I don't know everything. I mean, I think I do, and I will tell people that I do, but I clearly don't know everything. And there's so many users and a brand like Krystal, that's been around for 90 years that have so many levels of [00:15:00] experience with it. I want to hear everybody's experience.
[00:15:02] I want to hear everybody's take and would really get a fuller picture of what we're doing.
[00:15:07] Jen Kern: Right. Well, you know, this is really quite fascinating to me. And I'd like to hear how you kind of arrived at, at where you are today. Like let's, you know, provide some more background, but you said, you know, you were at Krystal before. You, you went over to Tropical Smoothie and you came back.
[00:15:23] I heard a little bit of your story there, but for our listeners who may be wondering, "How do I balance creativity and data in process? How do I balance that?" How did you really, through your career come up with this nice marriage of left and right brain and being able to put this process in place?
[00:15:40] Alice Crowder: It's a, it's a great question. And I think it's a complex question. I, I was, I will tell I'll, I'll say this for all the parents out there who are shelling out money for college and their kids want to be English majors. I was an English major. And it, it surprises my parents to this day that I actually earned a living and can support...
[00:15:57] But I think what that teaches you and [00:16:00] what a liberal arts education in general teaches you, is how to rethink question in process. And so there's a natural marriage there between asking questions and interpreting words and building arguments that translate nicely into a business environment. I went from college to a packaged goods company, which was
[00:16:24] all about process. And I loved it. I worked for Pennzoil-Quaker State, which is now a division of Royal Dutch Shell, in Automotive Chemicals for a decade. and that's all processed. There's not a lot of, of creativity just because the processing the investment are so heavy. So coming into restaurants and I did that, when I came to Denny's originally, to me it felt natural.
[00:16:47] You know, I think at the beginning, anything is possible and anything is possible, particularly in restaurants, where you can have an idea and have it executed in 60 days, if it's easy enough. Now [00:17:00] you may take six months. You may take a year for things that require more investment, but the results of your ideas can be had so quickly that it encourages a marketer to think creatively and to come up with a lot of ideas, because you're going to be able to see what happens.
[00:17:16] And I've, and I've always done that. So, but I also know that you have to tell a story. And I say this to my team all the time, "What's the story you're telling me?" And if the story is, "I think this was a cool idea." That's a terrible story. No one's going to pick that up and read it. If it, "I think this was a cool idea and this is how it contributes to the business and the guest experience.
[00:17:35] And here's how I think it'll affect the PNL." That's a story I want to sit down and read.
[00:17:41] Jen Kern: Yeah.
[00:17:41] The art of storytelling. So what is the story today for guests? I mean, we've talked about modern design, modernizing the guest experience and meeting, you know, there's this phrase we use in our industry all the time, 'meeting guests where they are'. What is the story that we and you at Krystal want and [00:18:00] think that guests need to be hearing today?
[00:18:01] Alice Crowder: For my brand specifically, for Krystal specifically, we know that guests associate the Krystal experience with a little bit of joy and a little bit of fun. You know, it's a, it's a tough environment out there for all of us, but if you can stop for a minute and mix and match a bunch of high flavor, low items and get a little variety,
[00:18:25] and that just brings a smile to your face for those 10 minutes that you have, that's what we're trying to do. So our story is always about, "Come in and let us just lift you up. Give us 10 minutes to lift you up and we'll see you next time you need lifting up," or Chili Cheese Puff, whichever comes first.
[00:18:40] So, and I think a lot of brands want to do that. I think in general, for the industry, we're seeing a big shift from what used to be value as the first point in the decision tree, to be more [00:19:00] about convenience and creating. Sorry, convenience and craveability. So people, we're seeing coupons not work as well because people are like, "You know what?
[00:19:07] I have a little bit of extra money. I want you to bring me the food where I am as I want it. And I want it to be worth it. Make it craveable for me. Make it something that I'm gonna, I don't have a lot of ways to indulge in this time period, but give me a way to do a little bit of efficient indulgence and I'm with you."
[00:19:29] Jen Kern: Yeah, that's great. That's great. I mean, I think you're really hitting on the hot buttons right now. I mean, yes, value's important, especially as a QSR, you know, you've got 300 locations. Value's important as, as a QSR brand. And even for fast casual brands, it's important, for all brands, right? Like everyone wants, at least me.
[00:19:48] I want to know there's a little, you know, the value equation is important, but it can't always be the only thing or the first thing. And so talking about this convenience and craveability, I, gosh, that's just, [00:20:00] it it's so paramount today. And then marrying it up like you are with the joy and the fun, why do we go out to eat? I want a little uplift moment. Sometimes it's the happiest part of my day. You know, whether it's going down the street to get my favorite Starbucks with a cold foam on top and I get extra because makes me happy. Makes me happy, you know? Or, or going to my favorite restaurant, you know, or stopping by, I mean, I want that little uplifting moment out of that experience.
[00:20:28] And that's where I come back to like the balance of the, of the data and the creativity. And, and, and the fact is that when people go out to eat, they want to have fun. They want joy to be there. And so how was your brand shining through in those moments?
[00:20:42] Alice Crowder: Yeah, exactly. Like how are you going to make somebody's day better? And you know, other brands do it with, "How are you making my day healthier? How are you making my day, you know? I'm making a more responsible choice." But more and more people are like, "Look, I'm going to work out every day. I'm going to do what I need to do.[00:21:00]
[00:21:00] Just give me a break, man. Just give me something to look forward to." And we're a brand that fits that space really well.
[00:21:07] Jen Kern: Yeah. Yeah. Little fries, like you said, a little cheesy fries, little, little craveable, a little slider. I mean, yum, yum, yum. Fun, little finger food.
[00:21:16] Alice Crowder: Exactly. Where else can you, a lot of people tell us, like, "I get a chill chili, cheese pop, I get a chicken, I get a, a Krystal. And I get all three of those things, but I haven't really overeaten 'cause each one of them is, you know, three to four bites. So I get a meal, but I get to taste everything that I love."
[00:21:34] Jen Kern: Yeah.
[00:21:34] That's so much fun. That is fun right there. That is fun. Tasting all sorts of yummy food. Fun, fun, fun. Okay. So here you are, six months in, your first CMO role. What has, what's different than what you might've expected? What's what's happened in the six months that you were like, "Wow, I didn't, I didn't think that was gonna be something I'm going."
[00:21:54] Alice Crowder: I'll tell you the importance of, of technology and the rapidity of change in [00:22:00] the consumer mindset have been eyeopening for me, let's say. I think, you know, for so long, there was kind of a formula that you could use, when you were promoting a brand. And that formula doesn't work anymore. That formula changes on a consistent basis.
[00:22:17] And so you have to be willing to experiment and pivot. And this is where that creativity comes in, that you were talking about. Because if you keep doing the same thing, boy, you're just going to sink. So, for example, when the market opened up for college athletes to be able to accept money a few months ago, everybody's trying to figure that out, right?
[00:22:40] Nobody, companies are forming. Agents are going crazy, but we just had a couple of guys call all the football players from major schools where we have a footprint and say, "Hey, if we give you some money, you want to go eat Krystal and tell us if you like it? Like, put it on Instagram?" And you know, a lot
[00:22:56] did. We have like 20 or 25, who were like, "You know what? [00:23:00] I, I love Krystal and if you're going to buy me a Krystal, you're, I'll put a picture on Instagram." And so we're learning in that space, along with them. They're going to, they're going to learn and learn what significant for them and more what's best for their brand.
[00:23:12] And we are too. And I think both of, both of us growing together are gonna make some powerful things happen.
[00:23:19] Jen Kern: Yeah. Yeah. Oh, gosh. See, I mean, how much fun is that? Just, just having some athletes go on and post, you know, Instagram, I mean, yeah. That's, that's a, it's a great marketing strategy, right? I always say like social media, it's free. Well, not always free. Like if you're, if you're paying an influencer, but you can get a lot of mileage from that.
[00:23:39] And we do live in this celeb pop culture. Right? I mean, everyone's a mini celeb to some extent, but keeping up with change. Yeah. And rolling with the punches. One of our mantras, we have, we have a bunch of marketing mantras on my team and one of them is about, you know, 'embrace agility at all times'.
[00:23:54] Right? Keep going back, you know, as soon as your marketing perfectionism starts sneaking in and telling you to [00:24:00] just go down this narrow path, try to remember to stay agile. Iterate, stay agile, flow with the change and stay on top. You know, I always talk about like, riding that wave a little bit in front.
[00:24:12] Right? So, have you, have you had any challenges that you've been able to solve really quickly?
[00:24:18] Alice Crowder: You know, it's all about team, right? So, definitely during my review period with leadership, I'm going to say I did all these things, but in fact, I have an amazing team that works with me, to tackle these things. One of the things we're most proud of is that we just launched an app for the first time, a few weeks ago.
[00:24:35] I know everybody else has an app where, we're late to the game, but we are there now. And so we have a, a retooled website that is geared towards engaging people with Krystal branded delivery and we have an app that does the same thing. So I'm really proud of that, not because it's a trend setting, but because it brings us into the present, where our guests want us to meet them.
[00:24:59] [00:25:00] And, and I think that's huge and we'll continue to learn how to make that more efficacious, how to optimize that.
[00:25:09] Jen Kern: So you've launched a website and an app and so just six months since you've been there?
[00:25:12] Alice Crowder: Yeah.
[00:25:13] Jen Kern: Wow. Kudos.
[00:25:15] Alice Crowder: We move fast.
[00:25:16] Jen Kern: Yeah. And who did you use? Do you mind sharing? Like how, how did you, I mean, that's pretty, pretty speedy. I know a lot of people that are in line waiting for apps, you know?
[00:25:26] Alice Crowder: Actually our immediate agency, which is also our tech stack agency, which is also our promotional agency is a group called Its Plein Air. They're a virtual house, but most of them are based in Atlanta. And they're really up and coming in terms of keck stack and being on the, on the cusp of that. Helped us with that.
[00:25:42] They also put together the SCC promotion, that we are in the midst of right now, which is, is paying dividends already. And is such a strong connectivity point with the foot in our footprint.
[00:25:54] Jen Kern: Right. And then for the app, what is your objective there? Is that around loyalty and getting the first party [00:26:00] data, I assume, or where are you with your app?
[00:26:02] Alice Crowder: All of the above. So, and even as basic as, you know, you can find us on Uber Eats and all the third party delivery players. It's so much better if we can move those folks into Krystal branded delivery, which you get with the app and the website. A it's more profitable, but more importantly, I do get that data.
[00:26:22] We do get to understand more about our consumers and how they are purchasing and really start to do that one-to-one marketing, which is the goal of having that all in house.
[00:26:33] Jen Kern: Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. And the tech you've, you've alluded to a few times, and it sounds like you've been building and kind of putting this tech stack together. Where are you in the process of getting what you would consider to be really reliable data around your guests?
[00:26:48] Alice Crowder: And we're in the nascent stages right now, but I anticipate, yeah, every month we're going to get stronger and every month we're going to figure out how to use that data more. Now we have, we have the app which is helping us. [00:27:00] We also are doing some work with digital menu boards, informed by AI and some of the product work that we are doing, which I think helps us on the other side.
[00:27:10] So, I'm gonna get more and more data from folks who are using the app, but I also want to use data that we have for the people who come on lot and help them maximize their experience with. Even if they don't plug into the app, how do we make their experience better?
[00:27:27] Jen Kern: Right. And so are you working with your head of IT and your IT department on that initiative?
[00:27:32] Alice Crowder: Absolutely. We're also partnering with, we're going to have a small set of locations that have external digital menu boards. We'll start that first because we have a lot to learn about how you structure that messaging in that visual impact to get the most out of a digital menu board. What I don't want to do,
[00:27:51] I see a lot of digital menu boards, which are just like prettier pictures of a static menu board. And I'm like, "Well, you paid a lot of money just to make your graphics look a little bit better. [00:28:00] I want like the motion and the draw and carry VI and the day parts specificity. And I want it to go to milkshakes when the temperature hits 95 and there's so much to use there that we need to understand.
[00:28:12] And then I want to figure out how to use the AI to marry our insights into the experience?"
[00:28:20] Jen Kern: Oh, wow. That's awesome. That's fantastic. And you know, th the, the way that the industry is evolving, it's, it's been fascinating to watch, even me just in my short time here in the industry in two years. But when I joined Qu, marketers within the brand side were not that visible, you know, when I would go out to conferences and whatnot. And now I see with this role of technology, you know, infusing much more the digital aspects and all the digital transformation we're going through that you've been talking about.
[00:28:50] It's no longer optional for us to be working with technology and with our heads of IT and ops and you know, all the other people we need to work with. And that was really [00:29:00] mostly evident at FStech, which I've done that conference twice now and I've never had so much, seen so many marketers there. They've each been on a CMO panel at FStech this year.
[00:29:10] And I talked to some of the CMOs there. They had higher attendance than ever before, at the conference from CMOs and marketers overall. I'm curious in the time you've been in the industry, which you said is, you know, almost 30 years now, how have you seen industry changing and where do you see it headed?
[00:29:27] Alice Crowder: I think there's a more and more. It will be a marriage between technology and marketing, because it's not even a differentiary differentiator anymore. It's a necessity. So when I started out, you, you know, you had a budget and you bought as many TRPs as you could, the smartest way that you could, and you made your commercial and, you know, you hoped for
[00:29:51] Jen Kern: the...
[00:29:51] I don't even know what a TRP
[00:29:52] is.
[00:29:52] Alice Crowder: Sorry. It's a target rating point. It's where they used to do too. But now, now there are so many ways to reach someone from a [00:30:00] messaging standpoint. You know, I can, I can buy a commercial on TV, but, you know, while you're watching Hulu, I can get a more programmatic reach by buying commercials for only the kind of people that I think will
[00:30:15] be most relevant. So note: to whoever you're listening, stop sending me ARP ads while I'm watching TV. I'm not...
[00:30:23] Jen Kern: Not there yet.
[00:30:24] Alice Crowder: Not perfect yet. But also with, with digital and with social and with geo-fencing, we really are learning a lot about exactly what you mentioned earlier, meeting guests where they are.
[00:30:36] And I think we will continue to learn about that. One of the things we were talking about, influencers that I think about a lot is engagement. When I first started out that wasn't a term that exist, it wasn't a metric. And now when we think about engagement, which for folks who don't know is, you know, "I can serve you up something on social and there's [00:31:00] one metric for, I know you saw it."
[00:31:02] There's another metric for, "I liked it or shared it or commented on it." And that's called engagement. And so an average kind of an art industry is an engagement of a 0.2 because people see it and they move on with our influencers that we just, kind of piloted with earlier this year, we had, almost a three-and-a-half percent engagement.
[00:31:24] That's something like a 17,000 index. And the reason that's so meaningful is that we are picking people and finding resources who really connect to our guests and can bring our ideas of who we are and who we think they want us to be directly to our guests in much more powerful, meaningful way than it's kind of removed structure where you're just placing ads.
[00:31:52] Jen Kern: Right, right. We used to call those vanity metrics. They, the views, you know, it's like, "Okay, like what's really the impact [00:32:00] of the view?" Not, nothing really. They could have just seen it, sit at their feed for point second. And they're onto the next thing. And there's no memory. To your point, the engagement is so much more meaningful because that's amplified to their network and you don't even know the reach sometimes of what that engagement could have been if they reshared it out to their network.
[00:32:19] As far as I know in social media, that's still pretty darn hard to track, like the actual digital reach of, of the engagement. So, it's so true. It's so true. So industry is moving towards, you know, this, this really solid marriage between marketing and tech. What would you say is the biggest opportunity
[00:32:36] in, in your space, like with Krystal, and going forward?
[00:32:40] Alice Crowder: It's a great question. We spend a lot of time talking about this. To me, I really think it is about optimizing the off-premise piece. More and more guests are not interested in coming to your dining room. You know, you're no matter [00:33:00] how nice your dining room is, it's not as nice as their couch. More and more, even drive-thru, people will do it, but there's a shortened patience for waiting in a drive-thru line.
[00:33:11] And so, the more, you can take that part of the experience out of the equation, I think the more successful you are. Whether that's third-party, whether that's your own branded delivery, whether it's, you know, I think somebody was talking about drones last week, delivering food and everything else. I think we're going to see more and more
[00:33:30] focus on making the experience as automated as possible. And it's far removed from the restaurant as possible.
[00:33:41] Jen Kern: Right. Absolutely. And I think I heard you say on clicks to bricks that you were about 5% is digital orders right now?
[00:33:48] Alice Crowder: Uuu, we update percent.
[00:33:49] Jen Kern: You're up to eight now, look at that. And just a month or two, right? You're already up to eight.
[00:33:54] Alice Crowder: My goal is, I'd love to see us be at 20%. Right. And so we...
[00:33:58] Jen Kern: About what? Next, [00:34:00] what'd you say? Or what? What's the 20%? Two years? I mean, that's, that's a big jump.
[00:34:04] Alice Crowder: Yeah, it is a big jump. I'd like to see it by the end of next year. And we are working on products and packaging and a number of different things to help us get there. As well as like, like most people, we have a ghost kitchen concept that we're playing with help, to help with throughput, in those, in those off hours and really maximize back of house efficiency.
[00:34:24] So by the end of next year, I'd like to see us at 20.
[00:34:28] Jen Kern: Right. And as part of that off-premise experience, you mentioned drive-thru which I love drive-thrus. I'm a big drive-thru fan, you're absolutely right. Like the patience back to your convenience and craveability, that patience of sitting in a long line, I heard there was some something to happen with Chick-fil-A. Was it last week in the news that, you know, they had this really long line and that people are, were finally just like, "I can't, you know, we've got to do something about.
[00:34:51] You know, getting these line busters working better." But how many of your locations are drive-thru?
[00:34:56] Alice Crowder: Oh, almost all.
[00:34:57] Jen Kern: Every site. Okay.
[00:34:58] Alice Crowder: Only a couple I [00:35:00] think that are in convenience stores that don't have a drive-thru.
[00:35:02] Jen Kern: And what's your, what's your SLA there? Like in terms of response time and the drive-thru
[00:35:06] wait time?
[00:35:07] Alice Crowder: It varies so much by our, by the location and, and the team, honestly, our goal is to be, you know, under four minutes.
[00:35:16] Jen Kern: Okay.
[00:35:17] Alice Crowder: And so some stores make it, some stores don't, but that's one of the things we're working on. And it's why, especially with the labor pressures that we're seeing that from an innovation standpoint, on the product side, we're really working hard to make it easier on the back of the house.
[00:35:30] Jen Kern: Yeah, That's great. That's I mean, four minutes is pretty darn good. That's pretty fast. I don't, I don't get through many drive-thrus in four minutes. I really don't. I really don't.
[00:35:39] Alice Crowder: And we, we see people like it. You see, you see it in the, this world that we live in just moves faster and faster and faster. And when you don't keep up with it, boy, your guests let you know.
[00:35:51] Jen Kern: Yeah. Awesome. So what's next for Alice Crowder, at Krystal? I mean, you've talked, you've touched on so many great initiatives and projects and things [00:36:00] you're working on. What's next? What's and what's keeping you up at night?
[00:36:03] Alice Crowder: Gosh, everything keeps me up at night. Yeah, it's my poor husband. I just kick him all night long. But I think there's still a lot of work to do from an insights perspective at this brand. One of the things that I'm focused on most in that area is pricing and understanding. Pricing on a neighborhood level, on a store by store level, and really making sure that each store is giving the best value and an optimized price to its guest because there's a difference, right,
[00:36:33] from somebody who lives in downtown Atlanta to somebody lives in Savannah. They understand value differently. The econometric model is different. And I want us to understand that and put it in. The other piece that I'm really working on is menu optimization. We are making our menu more efficient, putting only items on there that work as hard as they can for the experience and then filling in around them with new items and a new architecture that's in test now.
[00:36:59] And then the big, [00:37:00] and then the biggest thing is innovation. So it takes your innovation a while to, to, to get started because it takes a while to go through that funnel. But we are putting ideas in every six weeks.
[00:37:11] Jen Kern: You said a hundred ideas every six weeks? That's a lot.
[00:37:15] Alice Crowder: Yeah, it is. And it's, you know, it's not just me on Instagram going, "Who can I copy from?" We have a whole bunch of a whole bunch of different platforms that we work with and partners that we work with, to feed that engine and, so next year I anticipate having a lot more new to world products showcased in our brand.
[00:37:34] Jen Kern: That's awesome. That's awesome. Well, I really appreciate your time coming on here on Restaurants Reinvented. Loved to hear all the innovation that you're doing there at Krystal, and hopefully it'll continue to help drive your growth. And, that was something we actually didn't touch on. You guys have a conservative or a pretty aggressive growth strategy for the next two years?
[00:37:52] What are you thinking?
[00:37:53] Alice Crowder: Much more aggressive than we have been. So previous ownerships of this company and our ownership group has been in place [00:38:00] about a year and a half. We're not interested in growth. We are actually having a grand opening with a new franchise, who's new to the system, in two weeks in Dublin, Georgia. And there's a whole group that's been added to the infrastructure at Krystal to get more and more groups in and building restaurants.
[00:38:18] Jen Kern: Okay. Okay. So about how many new stores a year can you share or is that...?
[00:38:22] Alice Crowder: I think it's still in development, as many as it's possible. I'll enter the...
[00:38:26] Jen Kern: Okay. Okay. So you've got, you've got a big mission there over Krystal as the new CEO, CE, I know you have a new CEO, as a new CMO, a new leadership team, would love to hear like your leadership style. What are, what, what are your guiding principles when it comes to leading a team through this much change in innovation?
[00:38:46] Alice Crowder: Yeah, we, it varies. Right? So we have some, some guiding principles for the company, like having fun and, and valuing our guests and, and valuing the truth. And I think those are really [00:39:00] important. And my team in particular, I try to be about telling a story and having fun and approaching things with enthusiasm.
[00:39:09] I always say like, "I can teach you just about anything except for passion for this business. If you don't love this brand, if you aren't curious, I can't fix that. If you don't know how to analyze the PNO, I can fix that. Like we can learn that. And as a result, I think I have a great group of people who are always thinking.
[00:39:29] And so there's a, a rule in my group called passion project. So if you have an idea, you can do it one at a time. And even if no one else believes in it, we'll support you as you go track that down.
[00:39:41] So, that's where you get those crazy little one-off ideas that sometimes turn into something.
[00:39:45] Jen Kern: Yeah.
[00:39:46] Alice Crowder: So...
[00:39:47] Jen Kern: I love that, the passion project is beautiful. That's beautiful. Well, as we wrap here, I always like to give my guests a little infomercial time. Is there any, any shout-outs you want to do, any promos for, for your brand?
[00:39:59] Alice Crowder: Yes. [00:40:00] Gosh, don't, don't give me this, this platform. You're gonna regret it. I want to encourage people who haven't been to Krystal in a while or who haven't checked out Krystal to give us a shot. It is not a burger house, even though that's how we get classified. It really is a unique experience.
[00:40:14] It is super craveable and I think you'll love it. I'd like to ask people in Atlanta who have not been to our North Side location and seen our a special project, which is our love letter to Atlanta. We did in conjunction with the spice group and Butter.ATL to see that it's a really immersive fun project and then watch for us all season long on SCC games.
[00:40:36] We are all over right now. We, you will see us on commercials. You will see us on billboard, you will see us on merchandising and we have great sweepstakes going on. You could be the winner of a VIP experience at this SCC championship, if you play your cards right and you're very lucky. All of that's going on.
[00:40:54] Check in with us. We're doing some really fun stuff and we're so excited about the trajectory of this brand.
[00:40:59] Jen Kern: Oh, [00:41:00] wow. It just sounds like you're having so much fun. I live in the Northeast. I don't have a Krystal near me. I'd be right there. But the next time I go to Atlanta, I'm going to that North Side location because I was down there a few months ago and I didn't know about it, but I did see your love letter to Atlanta and that is
[00:41:15] awesome. That was super cool. And I know Atlanta is a tight-knit community of people, and so I'm sure they really appreciated that. And that is, that is really neat. And it's just, sounds like you're having so much fun over there at Krystal and I wish you all the best. I'll be here watching you from the SCC sidelines as you will on TV.
[00:41:34] And thank you so much for your time coming out today, Alice. All my best to you and you go, girl.
[00:41:41] Alice Crowder: Thank you, Jen. It's been an absolute pleasure.
[00:41:43] Jen Kern: Have a great day.
[00:41:44] Alice Crowder: You too.