Qu - Restaurants Reinvented - Scott Greenberg - Flattened
Jenifer Kern: [00:00:00] Hello everyone and welcome to Restaurants Reinvented. This is Jen Kern and today I am here with Scott Greenberg. Scott is a franchisee expert and a very well-known speaker and recently released a book called the wealthy franchisee. Welcome to the Scoshot. Oh, my gosh. I think I just said welcome to the Scoshot.
[00:00:48] Scott Greenberg: [00:00:48] That's okay. That's what my friends usually say anyway.
[00:00:51] Jenifer Kern: [00:00:51] That's a great mix up. Welcome to the show, Scott.
[00:00:56] Scott Greenberg: [00:00:56] Excited to be here.
folks may be wondering, you know, I usually have restaurant marketers on here and we have been introduced via the awesome LinkedIn.
[00:01:19]and you and I have connected and talked about franchisees. And what does that mean for marketers? And a lot of the folks I talked to. One of the biggest challenges is getting in front of franchisees and helping franchisees be successful and you clearly have done that and through your book, I think giving some great tips for that.
[00:01:37] And you even have some, some sections in your book about marketing. So I'm really excited to get your perspective the franchisee perspective, but go and give our listeners some background on you and your experience in the space.
[00:01:49]Scott Greenberg: [00:01:49] Yeah, so for, more than 10 years, I was a multi-unit franchisee with edible arrangements and when you are a franchisee, not only have to be an expert in operations, you also have to be an expert in marketing. Literally right before we started this, I got off the phone with another franchise or interested in bringing me to speak to his group.
[00:02:06] And he says, I'm gonna give you one question to test you. And he says, our franchisees are always complaining that we are not doing enough marketing. so what say you, and obviously the message she wants, which is a legitimate message, is that the franchisees themselves have to really oversee marketing as much as anyone rather than rely on the franchisor so I realized that from 10 years of having to run my own businesses, I contributed to a national advertising fund, but honestly, at the end of the day, it was on me to drive traffic to my own businesses.
[00:02:35] So I did that for 10 years and, I had actually been a professional speaker 14 years prior to that. And I continued doing that. So what I now do full-time is I go to other companies and it's not 75% of them are franchises, helping their franchisees grow their businesses, understanding their responsibility in that, and certainly being active marketers is a huge part of that experience.
[00:02:58] Jenifer Kern: [00:02:58] Yeah and I understand that you got your start as a young adult working in restaurants.
[00:03:04] Scott Greenberg: [00:03:04] Yes. So my father was a serial restauranteur. some were successful, some not as much, many of those were franchises, but overall he did. Okay. So when I decided that I wanted to not just be a speaker, but someone who's actually doing something, but wanted to do something that where I could learn about business.
[00:03:21] So I could apply those on stage. I love the idea of a franchise. It was familiar to me and yeah. My dad's experience. that was just kind of a normal world for my wife who grew up with a father whose an academic who had two jobs, his entire life. When I said to her, I want to invest in a business. I know nothing about, with people I hardly know with money.
[00:03:38] We don't have, she thought I was crazy, but for me it was, it was normal. So doing it myself, made a big difference.
[00:03:45] Jenifer Kern: [00:03:45] Yeah. Well, talk to me about some of the propositions that you set out in your book. I know you have one that we had talked about on our pre-show call, which was called the rhetorical triangle. And I think there's a lot of really interesting messages in there for marketers to learn from. So can you walk me through what that looks
[00:04:02] Scott Greenberg: [00:04:02] I believe anybody who's running a business and anybody who's marketing a business needs to be able to persuade needs, to be able to influence people. if we can influence what people feel and influence how people think we can influence what they do and that's what marketing is all about. It's also what managing people is about.
[00:04:20] We want to influence what they think, what they feel and what they do. Well, this is something that was written about 2,400 years ago. By Aristotle. And he, wrote this treaties called a rhetoric and came out with what's called the rhetorical triangle. And he mentioned three things that we need to be as persuasive as possible.
[00:04:37] So the first one is logos, which means logic, choosing data and reason and facts. In order to win people over. So you might think of an automobile commercial where it's talking about the features of the car or the mileage it gets, or the financing that's available for a restaurant. It might be here's what's on our menu.
[00:04:55] Here's what the ingredients are. Here's where we're located. Here's the pricing just good, straightforward data. So that's great. It's not enough. So the second thing that he talks about is ethos, which it directly translates to ethics, but what it really means is credibility. Why you're the expert? Why you're the authority?
[00:05:13] So it's that car commercial talking about how they're number one in the class, or showing their trophies from JD power and associates or showing Matthew McConaughey behind the wheel. So for a restaurant that might be talking about the awards that you've won, or, you know, Michelin stars for higher end, restaurants, it's online reviews.
[00:05:30]it's getting yourself as much credibility as possible. You know, McDonald's that always talks about how many billion served. why does that matter? Well, the idea is if that many people have come well, they must know what they're doing. So it's about and so you have the information and then you have the credibility.
[00:05:45] Here's what you need to know. Here's why you should listen to us. But there's a third element to the rhetorical triangle, which I believe is the most important. And that is pathos, and that is emotions tapping into the way people feel that if we can somehow influence what they feel, we can influence what they think.
[00:06:03] And ultimately. What they do. So for that same car commercial, it might be an image that doesn't tell us anything about the car. We just see the jealous neighbor in his bathrobe, watering his hedges as he's salivating, looking at his neighbor's brand new SUV. And so for a restaurant, it's using words in the menu, like, you know, delicious and scrumptious, which really don't give us as much information as locally grown or organic.
[00:06:26]but it's something that is meant to stir up our emotions. We see a lot of commercials for, quick service restaurants, where again, it's not giving us information, but it shows the family that is, laughing together that is, playing together using things to tap into emotions.
[00:06:41] So what Haynes from marketing perspective is that we want to be able to use all three to appeal, to people's head, which is the logos and ethos, but also to appeal to their heart. And so this is true of marketing, but it's also true with the customer experience. And so I'm really big on that as a marketing tool as well.
[00:06:59] Jenifer Kern: [00:06:59] Well, I love that paradigm and obviously, Aristotle knew what he was talking about. Yeah, we talk about that emotional aspect of marketing and it's amazing like it's, sometimes it's just so easy to overlook it and forget that we're dealing with humans, you know, particularly with all the emphasis on digital today.
what's their typically their motivating factor, obviously there's, you know, revenue, but paint the picture of what a typical, franchisee. What's motivating them?
[00:09:22] Scott Greenberg: [00:09:22] A typical franchisee wakes up one day, or typical someone is going to become a franchisee is a person who wakes up one day and realizes they hate something about what they're currently doing. So no one gets out of high school, gets out of college and says, I'm going to go open a franchise. Usually they go get a job somewhere.
[00:09:40] Or they joined the military or something like that. In fact, I read a statistic recently that one out of seven franchisees is a veteran. So it's many people who've come out of the armed forces and they're looking for something and franchises really love to reach out to them. Number one, just out of a good service thing, because these are people who deserve opportunities.
[00:09:58] But number two, the perception is that, people who've spent time in the armed forces are really good at sticking to a system. So there's an entrepreneurial piece. There's also willing to kind of do things a certain way. but the average franchisee is someone who, you know, they've had some corporate jobs somewhere.
[00:10:15] Maybe they've enjoyed some level of success, but deep down, they've always wanted to work for themselves rather than work for some, you know, mediocre boss. And so they say, you know what, I'm ready to go for it. And during a pandemic, so many people have been in transition. Career-wise that for many it's like, okay, now's the time.
[00:10:33]Especially with, you know, there's, the SBA has actually been, you know, fairly generous. There has been some opportunities. Landlords are offering good deals on leases. Many businesses have gone out of business. And so there's opportunities to acquire existing locations. That's a very, very interesting time, but the typical franchisee is someone who's been doing something else they're no longer able to, or no longer want to.
[00:10:55] And they're looking for something new where they can really sink their teeth into it and run it themselves.
[00:11:00] Jenifer Kern: [00:11:00] Yeah. And what's the most misunderstood aspects of franchising that they typically don't know about going into it and then find out about, and how do you help them, you know, kind of prepare for that.
[00:11:14]Scott Greenberg: [00:11:14] I think that the biggest misunderstanding that people have going into it. And I guess you could probably say this about almost any endeavor in life is that it's going to be different than what you expect. So when someone signs a franchise, they have this vision. Of, having a great team of loyal employees and customers are coming in, they know them by name and they're making money and they get to work for themselves.
[00:11:36] They can just, you know, build it up and that can be part of the truth, but no one signs, a franchise agreement and says, I can't wait for my machinery to break down and it's gonna be fantastic when customers complain. And when my employees ghost on me and they don't show up, that's going to be awesome. No one thinks about that or anticipates that or signs up for that reason.
[00:11:55] And I believe that most stress in life is our resistance to accepting the difference between our expectations and what we actually experience. And so I think many franchisees, aspiring franchisees come to it with a certain expectation and then they get into it and realize, wow, this was harder than I thought or, wow.
[00:12:13] My franchisor isn't doing as much as I thought, even though it's all spelled out in the franchise agreement, you know, it's always implied in the franchise business. Hey, you're working for yourself but not by yourself and I think they mean that, but the scope of what they're going to do is what is in the franchise agreement.
[00:12:29] So they're going to do a certain amount of marketing, but they're not going to do everything and they're going to help you solve problems, but ultimately it's on you. So to answer your question, I think is that a lot of people come with these very high expectations and they really haven't done their due diligence to understand what it's really like.
[00:12:45] Jenifer Kern: [00:12:45] Okay and then what is your advice to them? So again, I'm going to keep pointing back to your book again for our listeners. The name of your book is the Wealthy Franchisee game-changing steps to become a thriving franchise superstar. So I'm guessing that you have some tips for them. What are your recommendations?
So, I talk about this quite a bit in the book. It's a part of this, first of all, going into it, knowing that there's going to be obstacles, that is what you signed on for. And that's okay because so many franchisees, the better franchisees who, whom I call it wealthy franchisees, I define that they are in my book, are able to tackle those things.
[00:14:01] So number one, go into it, knowing that you're going to have those issues. Go into it with a decent amount of working capital. So at least, you know, you have that to back up on also go into it, knowing that you are going to emotionally respond to those issues, you can't avoid it. You're not a robot.
[00:14:17] You're a human being and the emotions are there. That's why pathos is so important for marketing, but. It's not just the customer who experiences the emotion is influenced by it. Those of us in the other side of the market who are doing the selling or doing the marketing are also impacted by our own emotions.
[00:14:34] So if you know that going into it well, then you can monitor them. And at any given point, ask yourself how much are my emotions impacting the way I see things. And so as much as you want to, you know, monitor your operations and monitor your employees internally, what I found that the top franchisees do is they constantly monitor themselves, making sure they're always coming from a calm, clear place.
[00:14:55] They feel their emotions, but then they wait or they take a walk or they meditate. Get themselves back to what I call that point of clarity. Then they go about solving problems. And that means with data. And I'll give you an example. GNC brought me in to speak to all their field representatives, the people who go out to the various stores and offer their support and, check for quality assurance, that kind of thing.
[00:15:18] And one of them was telling me a story about a franchisee who started freaking out because sales dropped. When GNC opened an in store location in a Rite aid, not far from his store. So you can go into a Rite aid. There's a whole section of GNC products. And when that was installed, this franchisee saw decrease in sales, started freaking out.
[00:15:37]So the, gentleman is helping them got data, not emotions, not assumptions. He got the data and ran reports. And when he saw was, it was true that sales had gone down for this GNC franchisee, but transactions had gone up. So more purchases were taking place, but the average ticket was dropping. So the issue wasn't that this Rite aid was stealing customers.
[00:15:59] The issue is that this franchisee and his team weren't selling. They got complacent. And once that was pointed out, then the franchisee was able to calm down. So what his field support rep did was he pulled them out of the emotion and looked at the data, looked at the facts. So great franchisees are able to keep their emotions in check and then look at the data and the information to draw conclusions.
[00:16:22] And so go into your franchise. you know, knowing that there's going to be issues, knowing that you're going to emotionally react to them. And before you take action before you react, get your emotions in check and then get the data and then you can make better smarter decisions.
[00:16:37] Jenifer Kern: [00:16:37] Now, well I love that you're talking about data because that has been a big topic on the podcast. I mean, everyone right now in restaurants is trying to get their arms around the data. It tends to be pretty siloed and it's a manual effort to pull together. I mean, there's certain, customer data points, mobile attribution data.
[00:16:54] I mean there's data in so many different places and focusing on the data is always really critical, right. Without having to ignore what you keep referring to as the pathos, the emotional side of the experience. so in your experience, how have you seen marketers being able to work with the franchisees to look to uncover and look at that data?
[00:17:16]Scott Greenberg: [00:17:16] In a word poorly.
[00:17:20] Jenifer Kern: [00:17:20] Be honest.
[00:17:21] Scott Greenberg: [00:17:21] I think a lot of franchisors who are really good at marketing are not as good about communicating the calculus behind that to franchisees. Let me tell you, we franchisees think we are cheap. Because we are cheap and we are impatient. So what is our form of data? at corporates encouragement, we run an ad somewhere, maybe, you know, digital ad, maybe print ad.
[00:17:44] If we had a time machine or, you know, whatever, we run some kind of ad and then the ad comes out and then we wait a few days and see, does business come in and. You know, if we're slightly sophisticated, then maybe we count the number of customers who respond to that ad. Maybe we look at the average ticket.
[00:18:00] If we have a more sophisticated, we somehow calculate the value of that customer over time that if a customer comes to me over the next year, they're going to use me three times. So I need to obviously figure out what that customer acquisition cost is get the idea. With franchiseess, or like, did people show up?
[00:18:17] Do they come in and aren't even adding up the numbers? And so what we need from our franchisors who get this at a more scientific level is to crunch the numbers and we're impatient. So if I'm running a restaurant and I put out some kind of ad or some kind of marketing campaign, I want to know really quick.
[00:18:34] What my ROI is, even though it might be months or years before, I truly know what that is. So we need the expertise of the marketing professionals, the corporate level to continuously crunch those numbers and to give us that data. If they want us to continue to make the investment to market our businesses because we franchisees are so busy, just operating things and running things and managing employees and, looking at sales, we're not as sophisticated as we should be as we need you to help us be.
[00:19:03] So, I would say spend a lot of time, not just really putting together great marketing campaigns, but explaining the data, to franchisees so that we will be more patient and we'll continue to make the investment.
[00:19:14]Jenifer Kern: [00:19:14] Yeah. And then, I mean, once you're armed with that data, you can make those decisions together. Like which campaigns should you continue running? You know, maybe the paid ads aren't working. And you can stop running the paid ads and, you know, focus on, local store marketing strategies,
[00:19:29] Scott Greenberg: [00:19:29] Yeah, I guess what, marketing professionals, who are working with franchisees need to understand is you're not just marketing to customers. You're also marketing to franchisees. You're basically marketing the marketing you want them to do so, the communication just has to be there.
[00:19:46] Jenifer Kern: [00:19:46] Yeah. Do you have any examples of where you've seen that done and carried out really successfully the marketers helping or marketing the marketers, marketing the marketing right to the franchisees?
[00:20:00] Scott Greenberg: [00:20:00] Well, I can tell you firsthand with edible arrangements. I experienced both, you know, years ago. they wanted us to run our first TV ad campaign and we had an election to determine, do we want to add one more? Percentage point to our marketing fund to go towards that. So an election took place. a TV campaign was run and they were able to tell us the results of sales nationwide, and really did a good job of giving us the data that was there.
[00:20:27] So that was great. And then there were times we were encouraged to do other things and I don't remember, and then they might've made an effort, but I don't remember, a whole lot of stuff that kind of persuaded us or calmed people down. so I see a lot more examples of people saying I just, I spoke to a franchise.
[00:20:43]I did a presentation yesterday and this guy was telling me this franchisee, I always interview franchisees beforehand. And he said, yeah, I looked at the 2%. We pay to our national advertising fund. And I just look at us more to the royalty. Cause I don't get anything from it. When I talked to the corporate office and they told me that the traffic that's there because of it, but he had no idea.
[00:21:01] So I probably have more examples of franchises who are not doing well. Then I, can think of, who are doing well. It is happening. There's some very strong brands out there, but for the most part, we franchisees, tend to look at it as an expense, rather than as an investment.
[00:21:15]Jenifer Kern: [00:21:15] So it sounds like they view it as a tax more than anything.
[00:21:18] Scott Greenberg: [00:21:18] That is such a beautiful way of putting it. it really is true, and I think a lot of franchisees don't understand that in most cases, a hundred percent of what they pay into that ad fund goes towards advertising. I think there's a belief that it will, it's just more, more revenue for the franchisor, and so again, that's part of that transparency is part of needing better communication.
[00:21:39] Jenifer Kern: [00:21:39] Yeah and so, what are some of the other things that the marketers at the franchise, or is that corporate can be doing to help franchisees be successful?
[00:21:50] Scott Greenberg: [00:21:50] I think that in some franchise organizations that, that the marketers who are really great people can be a little bit siloed and they look at their job is to get the word out and to drive traffic to the businesses. But I think that the customer experience is just as important as getting the customers to show up in the first place.
[00:22:10] I would love to see more franchise systems, combine the marketing with more of the customer service experience to have those things go together. And so whether it's the marketing people who are you know, directly involved in that, or they're communicating with folks from operations who are the ones who are bit more in charge of customer experience, whatever you can do to pull those things together, to make sure both are excellent.
[00:22:33] The better the overall the marketing campaigns are going to be, because the idea is just to get customers. The idea is to get repeat customers. And so marketing and branding brings the customers in the first place. The customer experience is what brings the customers back.
[00:22:48] Jenifer Kern: [00:22:48] Yeah, absolutely. When we were talking a little bit about the in-store experience and how that is starting to suffer a little bit in the pandemic, not just because. That a lot of, restaurants are down in-store visits, but the people that do come in store are oftentimes put in a queue and I've given my example of Starbucks, you know, put in an a que behind a lot of digital orders.
[00:23:09] So have you seen a change in how the franchisees are looking to improve the in-store experience and the pandemic and some of the things that they might be doing to encourage that traffic and keep that experience a restaurant.
[00:23:24]Scott Greenberg: [00:23:24] I have seen the change. I have seen a difference and I would say this, that I think that too many franchisees, for reasons we can understand are in survival mode. So they wake up in the morning and think, how can I maintain just enough sales can make payroll and so one of the first things that slips.
[00:23:41] When you're trying to survive is customer experience. The idea is how can I just get the customers? How can I pivot to make sure I offer products and services? And how can I just deliver these as quickly and as efficiently as possible? customer service is an easy corner to cut. And, especially when they're trimming down, maybe not having as many employees, well, now these employees are stressed out and they're overworked.
[00:24:03] And so asking these employees to really find a way to connect with the customers and create a beautiful experience for them and something that's easily forgotten. And when we're more reliant on technology, when fewer encounters are person to person and it's more person to computer or, you know, cell phone to, you know, some other electronic interface, There's less interaction with customers, which means that whatever interaction is there, we want to make it great.
[00:24:29] Whether it's the actual delivery, whether it's handing them their bag of food. hopefully, maybe you're still talking with customers over the phone, whatever opportunities are there. They're going to remember if you can find a way to make real positive impact. And so I think for people to lost opportunity, but honestly having said that, I do think that even digitally.
[00:24:48] There's a way to increase the customer experience and that means, you know, what are talking about customer experience. It's always identifying the values of your customer, what really matters to them and then behaving in a way that honors those values. And so, for example, Domino's long before they pandemic discovered that.
[00:25:04] People want to know what the status is of their orders and more people are ordering online. So Domino's came up with a super cool thing, which I'm sure you're familiar with, which is the pizza tracker. And I can tell you when they came up with that, I loved it for me. It's exciting to go online and they can watch the progress.
[00:25:21] And I can see that Tom is putting it in the oven and Sarah it's now she's going to be delivering it to me. So I see those names, it personalizes it, and I see the buildup to it. And suddenly it becomes this exciting event. And it, it builds to a climax, which is them arriving. It is exciting. And it's tapping into my emotions, even though it's all artificial intelligence, it all, it's all just ones and zeros.
[00:25:44] They very cleverly figured out what our customers care about and how can we tap into that emotion it's going right after the pathos that's there. So it's not just giving me the information that the pizza's on its way it's getting excited. And that's what makes me want to order again.
[00:26:01] Jenifer Kern: [00:26:01] Yeah. How can we use digital to get people excited? Yes, yes,
[00:26:06] Scott Greenberg: [00:26:06] Right, you have to go beyond the function of digital and use digital in a way that still elevates people's emotional state. That is what the customer experience should be about is making people feel better than they felt before they contacted us. the brand that makes people feel the best is the brand that wins.
[00:26:25] So part of the promise in the marketing and then part of that is making good on that promise and offering a few surprises in the execution of delivering products and services.
[00:26:35] Jenifer Kern: [00:26:35] Yeah and ultimately that is a big part of marketing stuff is understanding that psychological and that emotional driver between the, consumer and the brand and Kelly Periatt, who I had on a few weeks ago, she talked about this a lot and she talks about what you alluded to, which is the corporate marketers.
[00:26:53] The franchisors need to get out from their four walls and get into the restaurant and see what's happening there. Right. You talked about them being a little bit too siloed, and I know that's happened to me, you know, in the past. And I always like take, opportunities when I can to get out site right.
[00:27:09] And see what's happening between our customers and, customers installing the new technology and what's the process like, and just getting that human feel. So I'd love to hear you talk a little bit more about that. I know you have one section in your book that's called customer service, which is the best form of marketing.
[00:27:25] Is that. I think the title of the section customer service is the best form of marketing. and how, again, going back to, you know, the franchise or is how they can be helping and assisting with that connection and that that customer service that's happening in the store. And it's so important, even, I heard you just saying to the small interaction and human, piece that's still happening, whether it's at the curb side, the pickup, the delivery driver, there's still some human element.
[00:27:53] And you had talked about that still being important. I totally agree with that. You know, and that's what I remember a lot of times from these transactions, I'm going online.
[00:28:02] Scott Greenberg: [00:28:02] Yeah, I had a chain of gas stations bringing in to speak, and you can think about how much of the refueling experience has become, humanless. Right. It's all automated that, you know, there's not a whole lot of full service anymore at gas stations, you know, unless you're in a state that, you know, it's kind of required, but for most of us, we pull into a gas station, we fuel up and we go, there's no human experience there at all or these gas stations are discovering is the money really? Isn't in selling gas, it's in selling the cigarettes and Gatorade and gum and bottled water. And so that is where we have the opportunity to build that connection. But what they also don't understand is again, what's, my emotional state.
[00:28:46] I go to some gas stations and I see graffiti on the pumps and I see dirty water when I want to wash my windows and, and the thing, or it's, water instead of soapy water. There's no paper towels, trash on the ground. Well that even though there's not a human being, who's there. The lack of the human touch that they're allowing it, that is affecting my experience.
[00:29:05] So if I have a choice between going to that station or going to the one across the street that has soapy water instead of just water, well, I'd rather go there. But if both places are having a terrible customer experience, then I'm just going to go where it's cheaper or maybe where it's closer. And so. I think that we have to be very, very in tune with what matters to our customers.
[00:29:26] And so part of that, talking to customers, identifying what are their values, what really matters to them then in our marketing campaigns, speaking to those values. So if what people want and what they value is speed. Well, then that's the story we tell in our marketing, if they want quality, well, then we have to talk about that.
[00:29:46] But then at the store level, at the restaurant level, then we need to make sure that that is being delivered. You know, my concern with so many businesses is they have people who, you know, who are really great at marketing, really good at driving traffic, but then the traffic comes, and then that business breaks the promise or disappoints, the customer.
[00:30:05] And then that's the message that they pass on to friends and family, and that's what they post online. And so I think it's a combination of identifying what do people value then telling stories that honor those values to drive traffic, but then making sure at the, at the restaurant level, at the franchisee level that they're making good on the promise.
[00:30:24] And usually it comes in the form of honoring values and then finding ways to build human connection as much as possible. Because, human connection just matters so much
[00:30:34] Jenifer Kern: [00:30:34] Yeah. Yeah, and I think that a lot of us are suffering from not having enough human connection in this pandemic. Right or, having the same human connection with same person every day.
[00:30:46] Scott Greenberg: [00:30:46] As awesome as zoom is. It turns out we were meant to interact in three dimensions, not two.
[00:30:51] Jenifer Kern: [00:30:51] yeah,
[00:30:52] Scott Greenberg: [00:30:52] I don't understand how I can, if I'm with my closest friends, we can be together all night hanging out. And it's great. If I'm with those same people in a zoom room. But when 45 minutes go by, I love you guys, but I'm done.
[00:31:04]It's exhausting. And so we want three dimensional experiences with our customers, in whatever ways we can. And, honestly, I believe that is the best form of marketing. That's what gets people talking on our behalf, making them raving fans. And that's what gets them coming back.
[00:31:21] Jenifer Kern: [00:31:21] Absolutely. Okay. You had another section in your book, how marketing can hurt your business? My eyes of course popped when I saw that. So I was like, what's that about Scott?
[00:31:33] Scott Greenberg: [00:31:33] All right. Good. So the fact that you asked means that worked, I got your attention. And as someone who really focuses in the marketing aspect, I knew that would be a concern. Having said that I will say to everyone, who's listening to this. It is true. for reasons I've just mentioned, marketing can hurt your company.
[00:31:50] If what you're marketing, isn't ready to be marketed. When you market, you're basically taking a big magnifying glass and putting it on the business, you're going to be exposing it to more people. The question is, what is it that you are exposing. Years ago, there was a pretzel chain, quick service restaurant of that sells pretzels.
[00:32:10] They are hiring me to speak. And so I did a little mystery shopping and I brought my son because we, you know, which I would often do when my kids were young. and so we went and we got a pretzel and I tried to strike up a conversation with the guy who working. I said, so what's it like to work here?
[00:32:23] And he says, it's okay. I said just okay. He said, yeah, a lot of the customers can be really annoying. And I said, really? Yeah, we just kind of have this conversation and the guy wasn't being obnoxious or offensive, he didn't say these things till I asked him to engage him, but it was just kind of blocked.
[00:32:39]The pretzels are really good. So I asked my son afterwards, I said, how's your Pretzel. He says really good. And I said, next time, would you want to go here for a treat? And he said, no, I said, really? where do you want to go? He says, well, I want to go to Menchie's for frozen yogurt. And I said, why?
[00:32:53] Because you like yogurt better than pretzels. And he said, no, because whenever you go to Menchie's they say, hi, welcome to Menchie's. So here's my son, seven years old, already aware that the experience he gets one place is different from somewhere else. This guy at this pretzel place was providing a very lackluster mediocre experience and he was this close.
[00:33:14] And for those who are listening, my index finger and thumb are really good together. He was this close from providing a really bad experience. So if this pretzel place would have spent thousands of dollars of a marketing campaign and have all these people come and try them out, and then they get this really poor experience, it's that many more people who are going to be turned off and a lot of restaurants are providing an experience that isn't good, especially in quick service where, you know, you're not known for great experiences.
[00:33:41] Well, if you expose that many more people to your mediocrity, Well, what do you think is going to happen? You know, they're going to talk about it. They're going to have, you know, low star reviews and we don't want that and so, what I would say is we don't want to put anything out on display until we're proud of it until it's great until it's ready.
[00:33:58] And that is a hard pill for many people who are in marketing to swallow, because you just want to put the word out and I get it but what's going to happen is you're just going to hasten the process of having people, not like the business. So you'll get a burst of activity and then it's going to die away.
[00:34:15] And if anything, then you're going to see your, your ratings and stars go down. And so I guess what I would say to marketing people is what you do is so important, but we don't want your efforts and your money wasted until the product and the service that you're providing is ready for the world to experience.
[00:34:32] Jenifer Kern: [00:34:32] it's so interesting because what you're talking about is you're essentially saying. That the people are the product to the employees are the product and the example that you gave of your son there, the actual food product was awesome, but the employees, that product was not awesome and that was enough to turn him off from wanting to go to that experience.
[00:34:51] And that really all hinges on the relationship between marketing and operations. Right. Cause marketing usually is developing the brand promise, meaning ideally the whole company is embracing the brand and the brand promise and translating that over to operations who is then responsible for training, right.
[00:35:07] All these employees and it comes down to the whole time you're talking. I just thought about like, well, that's poor training on behalf of the franchisors or potentially a franchisees too.
[00:35:17]Scott Greenberg: [00:35:17] Yeah. You know, there is a, quick service restaurant chain who I won't name, but over the last 12 months they had a product go viral and it was huge for this place. I'm sure by now you can probably think of who I'm talking about and, It made everybody wait in the longest lines to try out this new product and my daughter and I were one of them and we went and we had the worst customer experience.
[00:35:42] And I thought, what a missed opportunity that, yeah, we'll try the product. And maybe the product will be pretty good. But if the experience, and I'm not talking about waiting in the long lines, I mean, especially when things in the beginning were so viral, we understood that, but then we get there and you can tell that the employees really don't care and the place is kind of messy and it's just.
[00:36:01] That many more people got to experience the mediocrity of this restaurant chain. And I thought, okay, so they're going to have a couple of years of great numbers, but what's going to happen after that compared to places where we're used to having, you know, great experiences, great human connections along with a great product.
[00:36:18] And so, I think this restaurant chain will probably, you know, do just fine. They were kind of providing the same level of experience before, but it's a missed opportunity.
[00:36:26] Jenifer Kern: [00:36:26] Yeah, absolutely and it's unfortunate, but I have to say it's more the norm that I go to a quick service restaurant or a fast casual restaurant and the servers, aren't usually very friendly. You know, they're younger kids, you can tell they really don't want to be there, you know, it's, it's not always a great experience.
[00:36:44] I mean, I can't help, but think you, on the other hand though, like I got to mention the Chick-fil-A light, right? Chick-fil-A is. So on it with their training and their employee friendliness, and you know, you go there and you feel welcome and you want to go back and there, no matter who's serving you, you know, a kid or an adult, whatever, they're super friendly.
[00:37:06] They thank you. They say, it's my pleasure to serve you and they've done it really. Right. Would you agree?
[00:37:12]Scott Greenberg: [00:37:12] Big time and they dominate the market, even though they're only open six, seventh of the week,
[00:37:18] Jenifer Kern: [00:37:18] Right. Yeah.
[00:37:20] Scott Greenberg: [00:37:20] they take a whole day of sales and they don't even bother with it. And still because of the experience they provide, I had a, uh, another quick service restaurant chain bringing in to speak at their annual convention and, As we've talked about customer experience.
[00:37:34] And so I basically typed in their name in Yelp and got all of their, restaurants within like a five or 10 mile radius of my home. And it showed the average star reviews, without telling people what my zip code was. It wasn't looking to embarrass anyone then right next to it horizontally, I show them three of their biggest competitors and their star reviews.
[00:37:55] Then I showed In and Out burger. They're star reviews and Chick-fil-A, and what you see is exactly what you'd expect, the customer experience, the customer ratings for Chick-fil-A and for In and Out burger, we're way better than everyone else who was there. What was interesting is that I showed the same slide, but instead of showing Yelp reviews, I showed employee reviews from Indeed.
[00:38:19] And there was a direct correlation between employee satisfaction and the customer experience. In all these places, it was Chick-Fil-A and In and Out Burger, numerically from a dollar stand point that is still blowing everyone else away. So what I said to these franchise is, look, you guys are surviving and your competitors are surviving but you're leaving money on the table
[00:38:42] So you can get by with that average employees who is next in line, but you're missing the opportunity. You're leaving money on the table and it just requires a little bit more attention. To, coaching your employees. And if you make that investment in the beginning, it's going to save you time and make us so much more money in the backend as Chick-fil-A, and In and Out burger, as they're able to prove, but you got to put time into it and it is the best form of marketing.
[00:39:09]Chick-fil-A and In and Out Burger, I mean, they do a certain amount of marketing, but so much of their marketing is done for them by customers who are having rave reviews online and who are getting their cars and just getting back in line, the lines themselves are a great form of marketing because it's showing the social proof that these places are awesome.
[00:39:26] And you get those kinds of experiences and yeah, my son now working at, in and out, I get to hear about what happens on the inside. I see why they're able to provide a higher level of customer experience.
[00:39:36] Jenifer Kern: [00:39:36] Yeah, absolutely. Well, that was the other section that I wanted to talk about, but I think you, just touched on it really well, which is the, transaction versus the experience. And, even as marketers, we can often get a little bit too ooh and ahh'd by the numbers and, you know, tried to drive, you know, incremental sales and things like that and forget about. these are human beings. We're selling to human beings, going back to your pathos and the emotional side of things. is there anything else you'd want to add about, the emotional versus the transactional experience the franchisees?
[00:40:08]Scott Greenberg: [00:40:08] Every business says they're in the people business. But no one knows what that actually means. And I think it's this. I don't care what you sell and especially if you're a restaurant, I don't care what is on your menu. you're in the people business. And what that means is this, you exist to make people feel better. That your products and services are there to elevate people's emotional state. They're not going to tell you that. They're not going to say, Hey, I'm coming to you because I want your frozen yogurts to make me feel good. Like, Hey, I want to treat my friends. I want to, you know, I want to get an ice cream. I want a sandwich.
[00:40:43] I want. know, whatever on the surface, people think I'm going out for food, but beneath that, what they really want, whether they realize it or not is I want to feel better than I felt before. So our mission must be to elevate the emotional state of the customer that doesn't happen when your clerk looks at the next customer line and says next in line, and is robotic and just has this script.
[00:41:11] So at every step of the way, we need to make sure that every experience we have makes people feel better and you can just get by, I guess, facilitating transactions, but if you're willing to go that emotional place, that human place, the place of pathos, is your best form of marketing. That is what improves the customer experience gets customers talking and gets customers coming back.
[00:41:33] Jenifer Kern: [00:41:33] Great. Well, I really appreciate you joining us today, Scott. just to recap, some of the ways that marketers on the franchise or side in corporate can be working better with their franchisees. we talked about the emotional aspect, tap into the emotional aspect, whether that's through your campaigns, through your, your in store experience, to improve that customer service and that customer experience, it's the data help your franchisees.
[00:41:59] Get their hands around the data what's performing and what's not performing and why. And then get out of your silence. Get out of the four walls, get into the stores, see what's going on in the stores and make sure you have these robust training programs and that your employees are exuding the brand, not selling a different version of the brand.
[00:42:17]Is there anything else before we wrap that you'd like to cover?
why don't you give a quick infomercial at the end? how can people reach you? Where is your book available? And, any other last, promos you'd like to do before we wrap up.
[00:42:43]Scott Greenberg: [00:42:43] Sure, I help leaders and managers and franchisees grow and improve and I do this through presentations through coaching, that kind of thing. I do. virtual presentations as well as live presentations as well in one-on-one coaching. So, to get more information me and the programs that I offer, you go to Scottgreenberg.com, B E R G.
[00:43:00] That's also where you'll find all of my social media links and so I would love to be of help to any groups and at that book that you keep going on and on and on about. A Wealthy franchisee game-changing steps to becoming a thriving franchise superstar. It's the best stuff I know. And, to help franchise needs it's available, wherever books are sold.
[00:43:17]Jenifer Kern: [00:43:17] And you know what, it'd be a great holiday gift for some franchisors to give to their franchisees, why
[00:43:23] Scott Greenberg: [00:43:23] I won't debate you on that one.
[00:43:25] Jenifer Kern: [00:43:25] And I know you said a lot of CMOs reached out to you to speak at the franchisee conferences. So that is another thing that you could help our fellow restaurant marketers with.
[00:43:33]Scott Greenberg: [00:43:33] We'd love the opportunity.
[00:43:35] Great. Well, have a wonderful day, Scott. Thank you so much for joining us on Restaurants Reinvented.
[00:43:40] It's such a pleasure.