Janice, hello. Hello, and welcome to this week's episode of relationships rule. I'm Janice Porter, your host, and I have a special guest with me again this week, and she is Jen Mueller, and I'm going to say welcome to the show, Jen, before I get into it, thank you. You're very welcome. I'm excited to have you here. Jen is an Emmy Award winning sports broadcaster, communication expert and founder of talk
sporty. To me, with over 25 years literally on the sidelines of major sports leagues, including the NFL and the MLB, Jen has mastered the art of building relationships in the most high pressure, fast paced environments. She shares how the technique she's used to establish trust in seconds with world class athletes can be applied to business settings where brief, meaningful interactions often matter most. If you've ever wondered how to make a lasting impression in a
short amount of time than this episode is for you. Wow. Okay, a lot to unpack here, because I know you sort of lead a double life in a way, right, I guess. So, yeah, yeah, I never thought about it until the second. But yeah, you're still doing the sports broadcasting, and you are very busy doing presentations and workshops and and conferences with business people to share, to to transition that over to to business. So let me ask you this, because I want to jump right in. So you're known
for making fast, meaningful connections. So what's the first thing that you focus on in these interactions?
You focus on conversations that can take place in seconds, not minutes. So I think a lot of times when we think about interactions or networking or making an impression, we're thinking about a conversation or a meeting or a happy hour or a coffee that you're blocking out several minutes, 30 minutes, 45 minutes, even an hour. But if I'm thinking about TV time, we measure conversations in seconds, not minutes, literally the shortest amount of time that
you can pencil into a television script is 15 seconds. I can tell you a story in 15 seconds. It's three sentences, it's not a lot of detail, but there is an impact that is made in just 15 seconds. So if I am trying to make an impression, I need to recognize that really all it takes is one word, one exchange,
one smile, one interaction. And if I'm looking at the smallest measure of success in that moment, I'm looking for the number of people who say hello, and that is my goal every time I walk into a locker room or clubhouse, is to get at least five guys to say hello.
Okay, so my my thought process when you were describing that went to and I think I've told you this before, I watch more basketball games than I watch football games, or definitely not baseball. It's not my thing. But anyway, so I think of the sports reporter or interviewer on the on the floor who, after even half time, maybe quarter time, even after the game, has a few seconds with. Now you might clarify this for me. Is it with the person that has been assigned to do that, or
the one you ask to come and do that. So
there's probably what you're talking about. There's probably two different instances, okay, if you're talking to a coach that has been assigned to you, so for example, if it's a coach at halftime, the coach knows that they're going to talk, and that's pretty standard across the board, right? The head coach of an NFL team knows that they're talking
to the sideline reporter at halftime. Same thing with NBA, okay, after the game, yeah, the player who gets interviewed that is not predetermined, that is based on their performance in the game. So it is my job to walk up to them, or that sideline reporter's job to walk up and ask for the interview in that moment. And that's another great example, Janice, of those
conversations that take place in seconds, not minutes. Because in general, if you were to start a stopwatch, those interviews probably last no more than 90 seconds, which for me, is three questions. So you're looking at 90 seconds to two minutes. So I guess you could measure it in minutes, but you're making a big impact in a very short amount of time,
right? So let's go back to the those 15 seconds, 20 seconds type interviews. I know it's based on you have to be watching. Watching the game, you have to be looking at what's going on. So do you have your questions pre determined? Oh, you
do. Okay, I do. I do. So if I'm watching a game, I'm taking notes the entire way, because you don't know if it was that play in the first quarter or the ninth inning, that turns out to be the difference. And there are different points in the game that I will start to dial in those questions. And there's a few reasons I do this, and I know that some people worry about the authenticity in those moments. There is a lot going on during a post game interview. If I am on a baseball
field, I am probably dodging some sort of Gatorade bath. I've got teammates that are coming by and high fiving. I've got the crowd yelling the interview is being played in stadium. So there are a lot of potential distractions. I want to be dialed in, because if I'm only going to get three questions, I need to be really strategic. Those three questions have to hit the mark, and if we're thinking about building
relationships in those moments. Some of these guys I have known for the length of their career, some of them have just joined the team in the last three days. That's what I was going to ask you. Yeah. The difference Yeah, yep. And so if I am, especially if I'm working with you for the first time, I want to make the
answer to that question, easy and obvious. I'm not going to put words into your mouth, but for me, it's the difference in saying what happened in the seventh inning, which could be any number of things, two, what gave you the confidence to steal second with two outs and a lefty in the box there's only rest one. There's only one, but there's only one answer to that question. There's only one. I don't know what the answer is,
yeah, but you know what the answer is. And when I do that, and I make that answer easy and obvious, I just built trust, because now you trust me to guide you through a conversation that you have the answers
to love it, yeah. Okay, so let's transition that through to a business conversation, all right. So liken it to something that would happen for a salesperson. You work with salespeople, right? I
do work with some salespeople, yeah. So it's the difference in getting people out of scripted and generic responses. So here's what happens. We rely on conventional wisdom and just conversational norms, and we have probably been taught somewhere along the way that asking open ended questions is the best way to get a response, because, in theory, what you are doing is giving the floor to that person to answer
any way they want to answer. Right? What we're actually doing is creating confusion, and anytime you create confusion, you are going to default to the safest possible answer, because nobody wants to look stupid, and nobody wants to give you the wrong answer. And here's the best way. We don't even have to get into sales. This is with anybody. Here's the best way I can articulate that. Okay, if I were to ask you, how are you What is your response?
I hate that question. Just so you know, I hate that question too. Yeah, I say something like, I'm doing okay, right now, thanks. Or, you know, having a great day. I actually try to be honest, but I personally don't pay attention to it.
People don't pay attention. Part of that is that's a that's a conversational norm, right? That's a script that we expect. Now I teach ways that we can use that to our advantage. But when I ask an entire audience with my corporate clients, yeah, we default to the answer, good, yeah, we're fine. We're fine. Right now, I want you to think about what that question actually is. It is the biggest, broadest, most open ended question you could possibly ask.
The reason we default to good and fine most often is because we don't know what you're looking for. I don't know if you want me to talk about the workout that I had this morning, how my diet's going, how you know the family is, how the job is, what my stress level is, and unless I'm brave enough like you, Janice, to actually say I'm having kind of a cloudy, crummy day over here? Yeah, I don't know what it is that you're looking for. And so when we're in sales, right, we often don't
know what it is. It's easier to say what we don't like than what we do want, right? So if we're opening it up by Hey, tell me what you're looking for today, I don't know. Would it be way easier if I was able to bring this proposition to the table to you and say, out of these three things, efficiency, time, length of time that you want to work with me, and profitability. Rank
those in order of importance for you. Well, now I'm. Starting the conversation with a very direct, like question, but I make it much easier to know what that starting point is anytime you narrow that down and there's only one possible answer, and it's not about the answer being right or wrong, it's just giving somebody the confidence and what I consider the safe space to be like, Oh yeah, I know the answer to that. I can raise my hand to that. I got that. I know that one. So,
okay, what percentage of time would you say that you are talking to people you've never met before, or that like they're brand new? Is it a lot or half?
Well, it depends on which setting. So I get to know my athletes fairly well. Yeah, it's a great question in that I talk to a lot of fans, or I will talk to scouts from the other team, or I am talking to, you know, three year olds to 83 year olds, depending on where you fall as a fan as a business owner, and it's a great way to practice all of these skills to make sure that you make somebody else feel comfortable in a conversation.
Okay, so I'm asking because yesterday I had a conversation. It was like an intro call like you and I had had before this podcast, and someone had pitched this gentleman to me, and I didn't know that much about him, and nor, nor would I at that point, right? I did a little bit of homework, but he wasn't what I expected, okay, in the position that he was in at, which was a high one, and he was very
humble, and he was a little bit awkward. And so I thought this is a guy who's been in business for many years and is an owner of a big company. And, you know, I had been sort of flattered that that this had come my way, and I expected something different. So I found myself a little bit I hate this term, but it's, it fits here at sea. Okay, it's, it's a crossword term. I think that's where I get it from. Anyway, yeah, and, and so
I was looking for that, something to bond with him. And he started, I said something about the industry he's in which he lit up. And then something came up about he had started his career wanting to be a basketball coach. Well, that was perfect for me, right? Because my husband had been a basketball coach. We basketball family, and he just lit up. And so I found it quickly, and I thought, wow, that's, you know, like, and from then on, we were best friends, you know, in the conversation.
So are there like I do it innately, but most people don't so and I'm not saying that I'm brilliant because I did that. I'm just saying that it's, it's a challenge for me, that I like, I like, to be able to find that commonality. So do you have some strategies that you share with people, that you teach people around that? Does that make sense?
Yeah, yes. So the number one thing I would say, and I think Janice, you are describing also people that I work with that are high performers, that are ultra successful, and we have an assumption that when you reach a certain level, that you want all the credit, all the glory and all the accolades for everything that you accomplished, and not all high performers are that way. I'm glad
that you're comfortable talking about it, bingo, right?
So a lot of people, when they see athletes who are awkward on TV. It it's a little bit jarring. Sometimes they get judgmental. And you got to remember that in every whether it's locker room, clubhouse, boardroom, business setting, you've got people who are introverts and extroverts. You've got people who are comfortable being on the in, you know, the front leading from the front, you've got people from behind. So the first thing I would say is adjust your
expectations accordingly. Just recognize the human who's in front of you, and you can't force them to have a personality or an answer that they just don't have. That's not a failure on them or you. This is just the personality that you're working with. So that's kind of number one, recognize the human that's standing in front of you. Number two, if I am looking for a conversation starter, I always start with sports.
Always do a lot of the times
I do and I do what most people would tell you not to do. I ask a yes, no question, yeah, and it will be related to something. So again, in my line of work, if I'm working with the mariners every day, or if I'm working with the Seahawks every day, did you watch the game last night? Right? Are you going to watch the game on Sunday? Now there's only one answer, and I really don't care what the answer is. I don't care if it's yes or no. If the answer is yeah, I watched the game and,
man, that was tough. In the sixth inning, and now I know that we can talk sports, and I can create an easy follow up opportunity with you if you say no, now I've got this really easy opening to say, oh, what were you busy with last night? Yeah, I was watching the game, but, but what had you busy which is a way easier way to enter that conversation then. So what
were you doing last night, right? Right comes across with a very different connotation, and for people who are worried about using sports as that starting point, because what if they're not sports fans? Okay, more than half of all Americans, this is what the Harris Poll study says. More than half of all Americans identify as sports fans. So that's number one. Number two, I'm just trying to cut through that awkward 20 question phase,
right? I just need to get you in your comfort zone. And again, if you don't watch sports, you're going to tell me what you like to do instead, and you're going to tell me your hobbies, your kids, your dogs, your travel.
I love it, yeah? Because, as I recall now, I did say to this gentleman yesterday, did you watch the game last Yeah? And he went and I made a comment about one of the players, and he went on and on about him. So yeah, it's just when you find it, you find it, right?
Yes. And that right, there is such a nugget that people miss in that part of small talk. So when you start talking about a player, or, quite honestly, an outcome, a coaching decision, all of this is personal branding, and whether people re realize they're revealing this to you or not, it is valuable if you are in sales. It is valuable if you are trying to build a relationship, because a favorite
player is not an accident. You do not randomly choose to have a favorite player and be engaged in that player's careers and outcomes. There is something about their style of play, their personality, their work in the community, that really resonates with you, and when you start drawing that out. Now, I've got a slightly bigger picture of who I'm working with and who I'm trying to build this relationship with. I've actually done this exercise with NFL rookies in a room to help them
get to know each other. And when you start talking about certain positions on the field and certain Hall of Fame players, the characteristics are really obvious, and it's very
interesting, what they find out about each other. When you start realizing I really appreciate the guy in the trenches who never gets any credit but just wants to grind every play of every game, or I like the guy who doesn't mind talking during the game and who doesn't mind being brash and who doesn't mind, you know, being the sound bite, I like that confidence as it comes through, so that what you did in that example is perfect for developing a relationship, even if people
think you're just talking about sports,
right, right? And that's how I saw it too, which is, it's just to get him to open up and and to see his demeanor change, right? And then you, yeah, that's, it's brilliant. Okay, you got me thinking, I got questions here, but I go, I go with the flow here. So something that came to my mind when you were talking also, because you're around the the the male athletes constantly. Do you have any experience with female professional athletes? I do, and I do, how does that differ? Does it differ?
Well, the actual environment differs a little bit. So the way that it works when you cover professionals. So we're talking major league baseball, NFL, NBA and NHL, there is media availability that takes place in a locker room, in a dressing room, in a clubhouse, when you cover the WNBA, at least when I did a number of years ago, all of that media availability takes place on the court or in a press conference setting, so you were in a room, so you were never actually in their locker room
space. Was that by design?
Well, it is by design, and we can discuss whether that's a good idea or a bad idea, right? But your locker room, you're gonna have people that are dressing, undressing, going to the showers, you know, coming from treatment, going to hot tubs and cold tubs and things like that. So there are just some differences there, and I totally understand why it's
there. I know people are going to have some strong opinions about that, but here's what happens when I get to go into your space and walking into a locker room or clubhouse, it's very clinical. We're all there to do a job. They're sitting there most of the time dressed at their lockers. And by the way, if you see somebody who's getting ready to go to the shower, you know what's going to happen. You just turn the other direction and you walk the other way. But when you're in that
space, and I'll. Make the rounds every day, I'll make the rounds. And whoever's sitting at their locker, I'm going to have a conversation, probably for 60 seconds, but it's going to be my touch point for the my day, and that's going to be the Hello, right as I build the relationship. If I never get to do that in a uniformed way, you've got to go about
relationship building differently. So now when you come off the court, if my only chance to catch you is when you're coming off the court or going on the court, I've got to be even better and even more dialed in at recognizing the work that you do and making an impression on you. So that means I need to been paying attention to say I saw how many free throws you hit in practice that was really impressive, or that three ball that you nailed, I don't know how you did that. Off
balance. That's all I need to say, is they're off after practice, right? I'm paying attention. I'm here for you like I I want to know more about you.
Love it. I saw a couple of clips on, I think it was YouTube of a program that you do. You still do this program, the cooking
show I do. It's called, I cook, you measure, yeah. It is on YouTube, yeah. So I bring most of the time it's professional athletes. Sometimes it's also media personalities into the kitchen with me, and it is exactly how it sounds. I do the cooking, they do the measuring, and to I would say, varying degrees of success. Some of these folks have a lot of experience in the kitchen. Others are learning how to use a
can opener for the first time. But the idea is we're going to learn more about you in a setting that everybody is familiar with. It is an icebreaker, and now it's the athletes are humans too. Yeah, and also, we're going to learn together on a few of these things and have some conversations. How did you come up with that? Well, a dear friend of mine who works on the mariners radio broadcast was
brainstorming with me when we were on a flight home. I think it was from Cleveland a handful of years ago, and during the pandemic, I, like everybody else, did a lot of cooking at home. I would post a lot of pictures on Instagram. And she said, you know, you need to come up with a way to make that work for you. Like that needs to be something. And so a couple of glasses of wine later, it was, you know, there's a cooking show, and I have excelled at creating feature programming
around professional athletes for years. So it has been my job for 20 years to create that content that is memorable, that helps you fall in love with your favorite player, that keeps you engaged. So this is an extension of what I have been doing for years, but it's in my own kitchen, cooking recipes and doing something else that I love, outside of sports,
that's fantastic. I love it. Now, you may have answered this question, but I'm I want to just make sure it's covered. What you talk about success statements, what are they and how can professionals use them to build trust?
That is your response to the question. How are you this is where we take that if it's going to be a conversational Norman script, because you and I both know it's not a great question for any number of reasons, but we're also not going to stop the question from happening, because it's a default setting for us. And you know what? In some cases, that's okay, but here's what we need to recognize, that
is the most pivotal moment in every single conversation. We tend to treat that as the throw away, because we'll go through
the How are you good? How are you good? And then we'll sit there and we'll wait for the conversation to start, yeah, why don't we just get a running start on this and deliver a success statement, which is a one sentence response to the question, how are you that answers the question so you can still be good, fine, great, trending in the right direction, but we're going to go one step further and Say why I'm awesome, because I am energized by the podcast that I take today,
here's what we have done. We have highlighted something that we are proud of, that we feel like is an accomplishment, and I have made the follow up questions easy and obvious. I have taken that conversation and pointed it exactly where I want it to go. If I'm talking to a manager at work, the conversation sounds like this, I'm awesome and I am ahead of
schedule on the show that I promise to deliver next week. In theory, any manager that I've ever reported to as a TV personality knows that I'm showing up to work because I am on TV, but what I want to make sure I highlight as a successes. I'm actually ahead of schedule. I'm going to make your job easier by keeping workflow on track for everybody else. If we're thinking about advocating for ourselves in other ways, you
work in sales, you're reporting your quarterly results. I'm awesome, and I have exceeded my second quarter goals by 12% And nobody else is going to know this if you don't bring it to their attention, and if they don't ask questions, it's okay, because I just took that moment and I used it for me. I can walk away from that conversation, and I know I made an impression that I did the best I could to advocate for myself in about 15 seconds.
Okay, that's very interesting to me. I'm glad I asked it a different way then that you said that, because I tend, because of that question, which, you know, it's everywhere, like you said the default, I tend to turn it the other way and say, I'll just, you know, brief, like I'm thinking about sort of in the grocery store or in in a networking event or something, where I might say, I'm doing
great. How are you doing? What's going on with you? And turning it back to them and not advocating for myself, yeah,
and you know, there are absolutely times and ways to do that. I'm not saying that we should never ask the other person or
open. No, I know you're not saying that, but, but what you're saying is that it's an opportunity. It is advocate for yourself. And I'm saying I don't, I never thought about that.
Yeah, yeah. So if you were looking to book more podcast guest, and you don't know where your next most interesting you know interview subject is going to be if you've always got it at the ready, because we can look at our schedule and know generally where we're going to be. We know who we're going to be in a meeting with, or we know that we're going to the coffee shop or the grocery store. It's just one line. I taped two podcasts today. I feel pretty good about
myself. Got it now, if they're interested, oh, you've had a podcast, yeah. Oh, what's your podcast about? How often do you tape? When do you have people on? And now you you're prospecting clients or potential guests? Yes, without trying very hard.
Okay, so I noticed on LinkedIn that you had done. Sorry, there's noise going on here. You did a post a week ago. I don't get to avoid tough conversations after a loss. My job is to conduct post game interviews, win or lose. Never thought about it that way. Everyone gets a few minutes to catch their breath, and then we dive into what happened. It's performance review and a post mortem that plays out in front
of a large audience. What? What message did you bring to the group you were talking to, which was a CFO round table in can you share a bit of
that? Yes, so most people don't think about the conversations that happen after a loss when they find out that I'm a sideline reporter, it's usually like, oh my gosh, that's so cool. Like, it must be so fun. It is most of the time, most of the time, and the expectations don't change after a loss. Here's what I tell CFOs, and I tell all of my corporate clients in this setting, there's a few things that actually make
these conversations easy, obvious and expected. I would much rather be talking about a win than a loss, but when I walk in there after a loss, because of the way things have been communicated before the game by coaches, GMs, front offices, captains of the team, if they come up short, those players
know what exactly we're talking about. And so those tough conversations, the ones that we try to kick, you know, down the road in business, and we're just going to give them some time to catch their breath, and we'll circle back around in a week or 10 days. Look, everybody knows what's about to happen, so let's just hit this head on. My athletes want me to be very
direct. If you were the one that missed the free throw with a chance to win it with two seconds to go, they know they missed the free throw, and they know that you're going to ask about it, because the expectation was it's your job to make the free throw, right and so you just go right after it. And you don't have to be you don't have to be ugly or rude about it, but the kind thing to do is to walk right up and say, We have seen you make that shot so many times. What happened on
that final attempt? Right now, I'm just going to open it up, and I'm going to give you a chance to tell me the story of that play. That's always how I'm thinking about a post game interview. It's your chance to tell me the story of what happened. We can agree or disagree as to whether that's actually what happened, whether I think you should have hustled hard or I think you should have done that, but this is your chance to do this. The cool thing in sports is the objective
is very clear. In basketball, and this is going to sound ridiculous in basketball, the objective is to score more points than the other team. It is painfully obvious. That's the objective. If you don't reach that objective, that conversation about accountability and feedback is actually fairly easy, because everybody knows we didn't reach the objective. The waters get muddied in business all the time, because what the CEO thinks is a success, or the CFO
thinks is a success is not necessarily. What your sales manager thinks is a success is not what I think a success is. And so we need to be really clear going in, so that when we come out of situations, everybody is actually on the same page, and they're expecting that feedback and that accountability.
So when you did this presentation last week, I think you called it. Her fun and informative. Stories about influential conversations. I talked to losers sparked some great conversations. So did you? Are your presentations interactive? Do you you must get a lot of conversation started. For sure, we we
do get a lot of conversation started, and there's a lot of thought around how to use our words in different ways, how to use one word to change the conversation, just overall feel and what we get out of it, the value that we add to somebody. So we do spend time doing things like that. Here's here's one that we did, in fact, actually in that same session. So part of tough conversations, accountability
and feedback is giving accurate praise to begin with. We are terrible at doing that in business, but coaches, great coaches in sports and high performers are phenomenal at giving accurate praise and feedback. We tend to default to the same thing over and over again. We would say things like, you did a great job, right? How was dinner last night? Oh, it was great. Oh, how was your weekend? It was great. We use great for everything, like a version of great for everything.
So what I'll have the audience do is shout out a few other words of what actually was dinner, because a chef does not want to hear that Dinner was great. I have done this exercise with chefs. In fact, a few weeks ago, I did this with chefs, and I had everybody in the room and I said, tell me how your dinner was last night. We're sitting at the restaurant with the executive chef, and they said it was great. And I turned to the executive chef, and I said, is that what you wanted to hear?
And his shoulders are slumped over. And I said, No, it's not. I said, Well, what did you want to hear? It was, well, I was hoping somebody would say it was savory. It was memorable. It was scrumptious. It was, you know, the flavors melded together. And so now you start figuring out how to use your full range of words. So we will do things like that, because one word changes the entire feeling and meaning of a sentence. So you really have to
be present and take and and and think more more deeply really
you do because it so. If you're just trying to pay a compliment to somebody, you could say you did a great job. Yeah, and I'll take a compliment like I will say, thank you so much. I really appreciate you recognizing that now, if somebody said, I can't believe how much time you spent preparing for our conversation, I really enjoyed the connection that's different. Or instead of saying you did a great job to say you were well prepared, that doesn't sound like it's better
than great. Oh, wait, does that land so much more well, you did a great job.
You noticed something. You noticed something, right? Totally. I get I love it. Okay? I think I could talk to you forever, but I think I have to sort of round up, round it up a little bit, and I want to ask one last question around the work that you do and and maybe a couple of quick, quick fires after that. If there's one actionable takeaway that my listeners can try today to build can use today. I hate
that word try can use today to build better relationships. What would it be if there's one actionable takeaway,
recognize the power of small conversations and practice on somebody you don't know. Talk to somebody so that that Hello gets easier, so that you can practice a success statement in a low stakes environment. You are never going to get good at the big conversations and those big moments if you don't find small ways to practice and they are everywhere.
They are, they are. I love that. That's That's amazing. Thanks. Jen, that's a great tip. I might have to use that in my newsletter from you as well. Please do okay, um, all right, so where can people find you? And it'll be in the show notes. Yep,
you can. Find me at talk sporty to me.com Okay, that's the easiest way to find me. Talk sporty to me on the socials. And if you're interested in the cooking show I cook you measure on YouTube is where you can find all the episodes.
And are you still found on on the field or in the I
am you can still watch me on mariners baseball games at home, and I am entering my 17th season as the Seahawks radio sideline reporter,
and if I turn on the mariners game, I wouldn't, but my husband would I can say, oh, there's Jen. I know
that's right. I'll be dodging the Gatorade bath after the game. Yep,
I love it. Okay, so quick, quick fire for you. You, you strike me as a very high energy person and a great conversationalist. I've enjoyed talking to you both times. Now, what do you do to you know, get away from your work. What do you like to do when you're not working?
I will probably be cooking and having a glass of wine. There's lots of great wine in Washington State. Yes, I enjoy popping out to a winery and just having a glass of wine.
Perfect. What's your favorite kind of meal to go out to restaurant to? Oh,
that's a hard one. I will never say no to any version of Tex Mex, Mexican food, like Southwest food.
I thought that was going to be the answer. Oh
no, okay, it's the one that I'm probably not going to make as well at home, like I can make it well, but there's something about going out for Mexican food with the chips and salsa. That's probably what I will do,
what I expected. Okay, all right. And last question, I like to I love the word curiosity, and I would like to know there's no right or wrong answer, but there's two parts to this question, and it will, I promise, be the last question. Do you think curiosity is innate or learned? And part two is, what are you most curious about these days? Ooh,
I I think we can learn to be curious. I think some people are naturally curious, but I do think we can learn to be curious. And what I am curious about right now, quite honestly, is how to make a big transition. I watch athletes do it all the time when they change careers, and there gets to be a certain part point where you get curious about, hey, what
else could I be doing? And I'm really curious about how to do that well, and how to find different ways to serve the community that I haven't been able
to do yet. Oh, you're on your way. I think, well, thank you. I think so yes. So thank you for being here today. I hope my audience enjoyed what your what you had to say, and please remember if you do to leave a review, we'd love that, and to touch base with Jen and follow what she's up to. I think that her insights remind us that strong business relationships aren't built on time. They're built on
intention. Whether you're at a networking event, a team meeting, or making a first impression, the ability to connect quickly and authentically is a true competitive advantage. Jen's techniques prove that with the right approach, even the shortest conversations can leave the deepest impact. So thank you. Thank you for those insights today, Jen, and appreciate you being here and taking the time to be with
us. I really enjoyed the conversation. Thanks so much. Janice,
my pleasure and to my audience, remember to stay connected and be remembered. You.