Kelly, Hello everyone, and welcome to this week's episode of relationships rule. Today I'm joined by Kelly Sinclair, award winning marketing strategist, brand visibility coach and host of the top ranked entrepreneur entrepreneur school podcast. Kelly's mission is to help purpose driven entrepreneurs stand out authentically in a noisy digital world. Recently, she's been exploring how tools like chat GPT can support, not replace the human voice in
branding. In this episode, we'll unpack how entrepreneurs can stay true to their message while using AI to expand their reach and deepen client relationships. Welcome to the show. Thank you,
Janice, I'm so excited for our conversation. We've had a few pre chats, and that always gets me fired up to dive in the content.
Yes, and actually, you've been on my podcast before. You were one of the early episodes that I think I did. I didn't look it up, but I know it was a few years ago, previous
Yes, yes. Congratulations on continuing your podcast for so long. I know it's it's a labor of love to produce a show, especially consistently for a number of years.
So five years been five years, five years,
that's when podcast started, isn't it?
Well, it isn't because Michelle, who we both know, who helped us get started. She's been doing it since like, 2012 Wow, a long time. That's a long time, but, but you've been doing yours for a long time, too. Yeah,
my show's been two and a half years. I'm like 130 episodes ish,
yeah. So we'll pat ourselves on the back, and now we'll just keep moving forward. So moving forward really is a great segue into AI. So your message is all about visibility and visibility with heart. So how did you first become curious about using AI tools like chatgpt in your branding process? How did you start to get involved?
Okay, so it's a really unconventional story, actually, because I'm not a tech person. Like, I'm not afraid of tech, I understand it and everything, but, like, you wouldn't be like, Oh, I know who to call for that. It's Kelly, yeah.
Same with me. Same with me.
Like, I'm not an early adopter. I don't have the latest, you know, hardware, things, yeah, those, any of those things. Last summer I was actually, well, honestly, I've been in with, like, pivot for quite a while, like a transition in what my business does and, and it's because, because, quite honestly, it's hard to be a brand strategist. People don't know what brand strategy is. They don't get why they would really need that or and it's not like, you know how they say you
should sell medicine and not a vitamin. It's it feels more like a vitamin. Like to have clarity, to have a plan, to to know what you are talking about. Like, that sounds like a nice to have.
So I've always kind of struggled because only, like, a small, selective few people, like, get it, and I'm like, Okay, I just, I want to be able to do what I know is really transformational work, to be able to work with clients on really going, like navigating this whole understanding and articulation of who they are and who they're for, so that they can feel really excited about it, so that their business, Like, is
attached to that passion, right? And so I was doing my own soul searching of, how do I reinvent myself and find a way to look at how I'm showing up differently, because whatever has been happening, it just doesn't feel like it's been working for me. Okay? So I have a beautiful friend who does human design, among other things, to help you unlock what your actual personal blueprint is and the way that you're supposed to show up in
this world. And without going into the whole like language of what human design is, essentially, there's five energy types, and you kind of get a bit of a profile for yourself. And there's some like, standards of what, like, What Works, which I'm, versus what doesn't work. And it's a really interesting not just like, it's not a personality test, but it's kind of like astrology meets personality meets, like, a whole bunch of things put together, and you basically put your birth
date in and find out what you are. It's magic. And I like that kind of stuff. So I was exploring this with her, and she, you know, we uncovered, I'm a generator. That's my energy type. And one of the things that a generator needs is to like my strategy to move forward is to respond like, for example, I I hate deciding what's for dinner. I need, like, two options I need. I need, like, close ended questions, like open ended questions. Sometimes, like, make me Twitch, because I just can't,
like, feel into what I want. I have to start asking myself, do I want this? Do I want this? Do I want this? So then it was like, my gosh, there's this thing called Chat GBT. I could
respond to all day long. So it really, it really started as me experimenting with, like, having something to reflect with, like to have conversations, to get feedback and input and and perspectives, and to not just feel like I was, you know, in my own head all the time, trying to think things through and and so that's where it started, and where I started getting really excited, and I didn't have a blueprint of how I could engage
with this. I was like, I'm just going to ask it whatever I want and see how it goes, and then figure things out from there. And so then, essentially, I learned that I really liked having this kind of tool. And the other piece you need to know about me is that I value time more than anything else,
right? You have two little kids, two young kids, and I can understand why. Yeah,
absolutely. I lost I started my business because I lost my mom to breast cancer, and I have that very personal experience of knowing how short life is, and I'm not willing to create a business or have a career that steals my time away from
the people that I love. And makes total sense, for sure.
And so I see the opportunity here with how we can have tools like this that can allow us to to, you know, grow in the way that we want, without spending all that time, yeah,
for sure. Well, one of the things that I hear a lot is that people worry that AI might make their brand feel generic or robotic. What's your perspective on keeping things human?
Yes, so I love this that we're talking about, like authenticity in using a tool like this that can and like, if you've experienced it for a while, and I will only speak to chat GBT because it's the only one I personally use.
I do too. That's the only one I use because I'm wanting to get comfortable with one, and not, you know, have to use more than one.
Yeah, exactly. And so, for the same reasons. And so it used to be quite robotic, like you can still sniff out an AI created piece of content on the internet fairly easily, right? So we need to think about how to adapt that and and enhance it so that it really understands how to speak our language, right? So that it is
say, our language you, I think, probably like me, mean, like the way I speak and the way you speak, not just the way humans speak.
Yes, exactly. It needs to understand you, your own tone, your style, your thought process like it needs to it needs to represent you. And so this is where magic has started to happen. Because I I, what I do when I'm working in brand strategy with people, is, is a process of exploration, of understanding who you are, who you're for, why it matters, like to you, to them, like how you're serving, how, how you're showing up. And that really creates a messaging packet for which I
call my brand calibration, okay? And that becomes a tool. The process itself is clarity inducing, but then it creates a tool, like a document, yeah, that you can then feed back into AI. So now it has this lens of, now I'm Janice when I'm speaking, right? And this is the way Janice would answer that. This is the way Janice would write that email. This is the way Janice would create her podcast show notes. This is the way Janice would script a podcast,
right? So when you're working with a client, a brand strategy, a brand branding client to do this, are you because this to me when I first started, and I was doing some things with LinkedIn training, and I was using AI chat to help me with some of that. At first, I didn't know whether I should tell my client or not tell my client that I'm using that. So what's your take on that?
Yeah, I feel like, you know, it's a tool that exists, and leveraging tools that exist is just a smart thing to do. There becomes, you know, I think there's a lot of different opinions on this as far as well. Am I really using my own brain, you know? Am I saying that, you know, a robot is smarter than me any of these things? And the truth is, I used to create like, I worked at a PR firm earlier on in my career, and we would write communication strategies right which basically
say, like, what are you trying to say? Who are you talking to? What are the best ways to do that it could map out, like, a timeline, like, for a campaign, those kinds of things. And those would take, we would bill. About 20 to 25 hours for
those Yeah, I was gonna say that would take a long time. Yeah, I can do the
exact same thing now in under three hours. Yeah, like with, and that is that's without even having built a bot to help me. It's just using, using it to say, change this. This is the goal. Like, these are the sections. This is the
way I like it to come in. Here's some examples of ones I've done before, and it's really, I think this is an interesting age to be in, because we are we as humans now have the experience that we have pre having these tools, it's going to be a whole different conversation on like, how our kids grow up using this, right? But I know how I what I want it to create, and I know the right questions to ask it, and so therefore it's still going through my thought process. It's just faster. So to
me, the output is just way better with the support. Like I'm able to give you a significantly more robust plan than if I was manually doing it. Otherwise you would have to pay me so much money,
right? And for my experience with the LinkedIn clients was when I started to do it, I never said anything. I'd show them what I had put together, but I would never say anything. Now, of course, I only did that for a little while, and then I started to realize that some of my clients would say, Oh, let me put that in chat GPT, and see what it comes up with.
So they were on board, right? So then I started to say, Well, I actually took this, this and this, and I've put this in chat, and this is what it came up with, and I'd like to go through that with you so that we can make it really speak to who you
are. And so having the guideline has actually been making it move more quickly, because sometimes people aren't that creative, and they're not sure, and I can only put so many words in their mouth, but when they see it on paper and and sometimes I say, I think this is a great piece, but I want to move it down here. I want this to be the you know, so I will reuse it as a as a
starting point, but it's never the finished product. And that's, I think, important to note as well, that it's a great it's a great tool to get started, but you have to put yourself into it, or the person that you're working with into it,
yeah, and so definitely, like that's where, that's the entry point into using AI is to not have to have a blank screen, to have things to reflect on, to access, like the expansive knowledge base that has been has been created through those tools. But also, there are ways that you can make it a full finished product based on knowing what to tell it what to do. That's true, right? Yeah, so I would say yes and to Yes, yeah,
okay, fair enough. And it depends what you're doing with the client, for sure. Yeah. Okay, so let's, let's take a look at your I know you talk about 10 Minute 10 minutes a day, visibility strategy. How does AI support? Well, first of all, tell us about that. And then, how does AI support that rhythm without losing the personal touch?
Yeah. So we know that if you want to grow your business, you have to show up. You need to tell people about it, right? And so thinking about all of the different places that you can do that, all the different methods for what I blanket call visibility, right? So whether that's LinkedIn, networking events, these are things I know your clients are
definitely interested. People who are here, doing collaborations, email list building, being on social media, like, advertising, media relations, public relations, events, all the things right, like, and as somebody who's worked in this industry for like, I mean, in communications for close to 20 years, all of it works, and also all of it doesn't work. So it depends on you. This is where we have to come up with a match, you know, between you and what is going to
be in alignment for you and your brand. That's why we do all of that brand calibration work as part of this. But I know that thinking about all of those things, especially when you're not a marketer, naturally, it's like, that's overwhelming. I can't do all of that. And also, do I have to do all of that? Yeah, right. And so I have to tell a story, because a couple of summers ago, I'll be coming up, two years ago, I, for the first time, did not put my kids in camps every single week. And
I was like, Oh no, the kids are going to be home. How am I going to keep moving things forward without, you know, while they're here, asking me for snacks and to put set up the sprinkler and to, like, go on play dates and go to the park and all the things. I also bought a paddle board and really wanted to use
that. So I was like, hey, I need to figure out a way to, like, I. Really hone in on what is going to be effective, like, what's going to move the ball forward for me and I, I can do it in 10 minutes a day, right? This doesn't mean like, hours and hours of content creation, like, I don't have time for that. What I do know is a couple of things. One, the visibility has to involve somebody else. So this could mean like, I reached out to Janice and said, Hey, let's have a connection, like,
reconnect, call that kind of thing, right? Where I followed up with a previous client and checked in with how they're doing, which could lead to, oh, I need to do more work with you, yeah, right. Or a collaboration, like, Oh, hey, I really want to introduce you to this other person, because I think you would hit it off and blah, blah, blah, like, those are the little kinds of moves that I'm talking about with visibility. And then fast forward now to incorporating AI into this
situation. I now say, like, like, I said, everything works and everything doesn't. There's things that are what I call performative, which is, which is doing things for the sake of feeling like you're doing something, or to be seen to be
doing something. And most of the time, that's a random social media post that doesn't have a strategy attached to it, or like commenting on somebody else's post on social like things that we believe that we're supposed to do and be effective, but not by themselves, versus strategic visibility, which we think takes longer, like getting ourselves onto a podcast or speaking on a stage, or securing a collage, JV collaboration, an email bundle,
whatever. And I said, now we can do either of those things in the same amount of time with AI. So if you have 10 minutes, you can just as easily pitch yourself to a podcast or write it really nice, email, follow up to somebody or do something like that, versus what you think you have to do on social media.
Lovely. Yeah, that's great. Use your time wisely. Use it effectively. And as I recall, I think you wrote about that experience, and how, by doing that, that summer, you created a lot more events and then business for yourself, right?
Yeah, because visibility is a habit. So this is the other thing, right? Like, we live in a world of instant gratification, where we're, like, just wanting everything to happen right away. And while AI can satisfy that need a little bit, because you're like, I need to write an email. And it's
like, here's the email. You also know that relationships, and this is your core philosophy as well, they take time to build, and they are the most important thing that you have when you're thinking about growth, and so when you're building habit, if you're spending 10 minutes a day or less doing visibility, you are creating a habit by doing that regularly. It becomes just part of your daily routine that you're doing, and then you're
creating momentum, right? I like to play a game where I track back, like, if I never did this, this would have never happened. And some big things that happened, I can go, oh, that's because I met this person, because I did this thing, because I went here. And now, last year, I spoke on stage in Nashville at a conference, which was amazing. I was just this week today, my episode on a summit called AI unlocked has been released, and that's a huge These are huge platforms. And
for me, these were, like, big reaches. And they didn't happen overnight, right? Like, they happen because of the ongoing, intentional effort, which just also becomes easier and easier. And then the other thing about momentum is you get that feeling of it, right? Like, oh my gosh, I'm on fire. I can do everything. I'm going to try, like a big thing just happened. I'm going to do another big thing, like right now, and use that energy for it and and that's where the real magic is happening.
So true. So true. Okay, so how are, how are your clients reacting to this integration with AI, when you bring it to them,
I think, I think there's a lot of different user
what's the word? Well, they're at different levels. Probably,
yeah, that's the word levels, right? Like, you know, I spoke at a group, like, in in person, at an event last week, and I was sort of doing an AI pulse check with the crowd on, you know, who's like, played with it a little bit. Who's trying to advance, like, enhance it, who's like, I've never touched it. And it was like, a third, a third, a third. Okay,
the room, right? In different places, and that's. It's, that's what's really interesting about being in something that's so fast moving and evolving, is that that that's the thing, right? It is, like, you can jump onto this train at any point, but it's going to keep moving forward as well. So like, I guess, don't feel behind, know that there's opportunities, and then just be open minded to how to integrate it is what I would say. Well,
I think there's a lot of fear with the, probably the first third of those people, right? They're not sure what to do. They don't know, so they'll just sort of hang back for another while. I don't know. They feel like they're intrigued, but afraid that it might dilute their voice or dilute their brand? I don't know.
Yeah, I haven't had enough conversations directly with people to in that particular space, because, as I've been learning it myself, I've put myself into rooms and spaces with people who are, you know, really exploring with things and building custom gpts and doing things that are perhaps a little bit more advanced as well, but I think there's, there's still an appetite, for sure, because, because I had conversations with people who asked me to do
workshops for them on, you know, teaching them the basics and helping them figure out how to what they need in order To make it work for them, right? It's hard when it's a like, dream it and it can be it can be achieved, basically, is the answer. But like, where do there's no boundaries,
right? And I find that, like with my LinkedIn training, for example, I often when I'm talking about building relationships on LinkedIn and and and reaching out to people, to establish those you know, those relationships, and talk to people that I'm still amazed at, how many people don't feel comfortable knowing what to say to people like they don't know how to start a conversation. That doesn't mean that they're way behind or that it's just part of their personality.
They're not as outgoing as you and I, perhaps, and it's not as easy for them to start a conversation if, if and and I'm sort of seeing this being integrated in the work that I do. Is that if I can show them how they could say, take a post that somebody wrote, and they want to comment on it intelligently. They want to show their viewpoint. They want to
add value to what that person has written. They could put that post into chat, for example, and have that conversation with chat and say, Look, I want to, you know, contribute, but I don't know how to start the conversation. Can you help me? It will. And then you got something to start with that you can then mold into your own.
Well, absolutely, it's helping you take action, right? Because if your current objection is, I don't know where to start, yeah, then you now don't have that objection
exactly. You just have to feel comfortable enough to know what to do, to get it to help you. And then it will become easier, and you'll find that you'll be able to do it yourself on but again, it's part of the habit thing that that you have to, you have to be out there engaging on other people's posts, because you have to be visible. And that's one way to be visible in other people's audiences, yes. So, yeah, it's brilliant. It's really, quite, quite brilliant. So what's
happening for you this summer? Kelly, are you? Are the kids in camp this summer? Are you making big plans for work or no?
Um, I don't know. Like I said when I started this conversation, is I feel like I'm in a transition, but I also feel like I'm on the like edge of a breakthrough, yeah, something exciting. And for me, with my generator energy, if I'm excited about something, I'm going to go all in and do that. So it could mean like that I'm launching a new offer right away. I i might be building a software company I don't even
know right now. Effort, the marketer, yes, I love it. I like, I'm ready to do it all, and also I'm ready to do nothing like I can. I feel like I can, you know, do both.
Yeah, no, that's fantastic. It's exciting, because there's so much out there right now that people can, can take hold of, they just and I know I in a way of feeling the same, like I'm feeling like it's time to just sort of step back for a little bit. And I rarely do that, because I, I don't know fear or something, but I I feel like it's time to step back to take a look at what, how I want to create the next the next time frame, you know, the next year or whatever. And it's funny,
because I was listening to a podcast this morning. I'm interviewing a guy later today that he's he calls himself a creator. And there's a lot of creators. Out there, and they talk about and they're CR they're content creators. They write so easily, and that's not something that I do easily by myself. So I'm fascinated by people who have and they all have their own styles, right? Like everybody's different, but it's finding a way to learn from those people I find fascinating,
but I don't think I'd ever call myself a creator. I don't know my the way I create is through my podcasts. I think,
yes, yes, because you're a teacher, yeah, right, like, and that's part of your brand identity, too, yeah.
And I think that there's also, like, a a preconceived notion of what it means to be a creator, like when Instagram is talking to creators, like your whole purpose is to create content, versus using content to help you get across a key message to help you reach an audience that's more of using those tools as a communication strategy, right, like from an old school, my schooling, university, degree perspective,
well, and for me, it's just my just my wisdom and the age that I am. I mean, I'm a I'm a communicator, but mostly I like to talk to people. I like to build relationships with people through conversation. And so I think that's why I love my podcast more than writing things, you know, and and I get my energy from other people as well. Okay, so there was one thing I wanted to ask you, and I've gone blank.
Oh, it was that you said that this, I think you were doing when we talked last you were about to do, I'm not sure if it's a podcast that came out today or if it's a summit that you were doing. I think it was a summit right around using chat for and with someone who's right you were learning from, I can't remember.
Oh yes. So the summit is called AI unlocked. Oh,
right. Oh, so that, that was the thing that you're talking about. Okay, how did it? How did it go for you? Because you probably listened to other people as well. I
just listened to one right before I got on with, like, oh my gosh, my mind is going in a whole way. I was dictating an email the other day because I have an actual buzz from my work right now, like I feel like, like my energy is is
floating around me. I'm speaking like, 10 times faster than I normally am, because I can't even keep up with my own brain and the ideas that are be being generated by thinking about what the opportunities are here, and also, like, I'm a person who likes to go fast, like, when I like something, I'm like, I'm gonna, I'm just going all in, right? I'm gonna do it all day.
And I want to build things. I want to, like, I said, Maybe I have a tech company now, I don't know to identify with that being like a software person, but yeah, essentially, I see the that's how innovation happens. When you see a problem and you see a solution, and you bring those things together, right?
And it's like, what I know is that I work, I'm I want to support entrepreneurs who are trying to get their name out there, grow their business, become known for the thing that they do, and also to do that in a way that feels really aligned and and, you know, correct for you, and that there's tools that can help you, like, hit the easy button to make that happen. Well,
I was just, I know that you've already created a couple of products that you're selling around that exact thing of helping people make it easier for them. How's that going? And do you see that as sort of part of what your your intention? Yeah, yeah,
definitely is. I think it's like the perfect bridge where I was for that. You know, it was, has been challenging to to sell myself as a brand strategist or even a visibility coach, like sure, I know that people are aligned more with that phrasing of visibility. I need to be more visible. I need to figure out what I'm talking about, how to how to show up those kinds of things. But now I can, like, create tools that support implementing the strategies that
I previously would be creating. So it's now a married up sort of full service offering, and the I see a in an entire suite of what I call the visibility bot squad, so tools that are built with best practices in place that that accommodate your brand collaboration, like calibration of your voice and everything about you and who you're talking to, that is part of the work that we do together. And then they can, they can implement the things. They can write your emails, they can they can write
you podcast pitches. They can update your bio. Can write LinkedIn posts or whatever like tool you want to use, like we can create an entire suite of these that you can have access to. And for now, I've just started playing with a few of them that are specific to, like, little micro tasks that I personally use. I've created a whole bunch specific to podcasting and podcast planning and promotion and production. And then I also have one that I sell called Valerie, the
visibility auditor. And her job really is to be like a strategist in your pocket and help you analyze and see, like where the opportunities for more ROI on your visibility are. So you'll go in there and you'll say, she'll be like, What did you do this week? And you'll be like, I did three LinkedIn posts and I messaged four people directly and I spoke on a podcast. And then she'll give you a score of like, what that is in terms of strategic versus performative visibility tasks.
She'll give you ideas on how to lean into the things that actually created opportunities for you. Means like a follow up email to that host, summit host, or the like the podcast. So I know that's part of your strategy, too, with the cards and everything that you also talk about, right? Like she'll remind you to do these little, easy things. So she's your accountability partner. She's accountability but she also
gives you, like, strategy tips. Yeah, yeah. I've built in an entire like scorecard and suggested strategic visibility opportunities that she can help assess based on your style. Like, what do you actually like? And also, like, how are you feeling today? Like, is this a low energy day? Because on a low energy day, you might just send an email right. On a high energy day, you might be like, I gotta pitch myself for 16
podcasts. Yeah, I love it. Yeah, I love it. That's amazing. Okay, you got me hyped now to talk to Valerie. So any last words for my audience, because you just inspired me. So, anything else you'd like to say to inspire my audience to take a look at those things, perhaps, and where they can find you?
Oh, absolutely. I think that being open to using AI in an authentic way. There's so many opportunities to help you to move faster towards your goals that you don't have to sacrifice your time with the people that you love and having the life that you love like that's what I really am here all about. I believe the world will be a better place if there are more entrepreneurs who find success doing things that they love, right? If we all loved our jobs, we would all be happier.
So let's create those businesses that allow us to feel the way that we wanted to be in the world, in the way that we want.
Yeah, to do it on our on our own terms. Absolutely.
Yeah, absolutely. So you can find me at the entrepreneur school podcast, anywhere that you get podcasts, podcast friends on this player that you're listening to right now, my Instagram, though, I am going off of social media for the summer. This is an experiment I'm about to do. But you can find me on Instagram at ks CO, underscore Kelly and at ks co.ca ks co.ca
Perfect. Thank you again. Thanks for being on the show, Kelly. It was it was informative and it was inspirational and it was fun. And you remind us that automation doesn't mean not doesn't mean impersonate, impersonation. That's I didn't write that that's not right, does not mean being impersonal. I think I would say it that way, in a world of algorithms and digital shortcuts, staying connected to your message and your audience is truly what
builds a brand. Whether you spend 10 minutes a day or a full campaign cycle, tools like chat GPT can support your voice, but never replace your vision. And I think you can always be true to yourself is the key. Being true to yourself is the key, and I know that you agree with that. So thank you. Thank you for being here. Thank you to my audience for being here. As always, I appreciate you, and if you like what you heard today, please let us know, and we will. We will bring more of the same.
You know we appreciate you and remember to stay connected and be remembered. Thank you. Janice, you're welcome. Bye.