Steve, Hello everyone, and welcome to this week's episode of relationships rule. Starting your own business after a corporate career is an exciting but often challenging transition. While some professionals can tap into their existing corporate network, others may need to build new connections from the ground up. Well, today, my guest David Schreiner Khan is not only the host of his own podcast, which I
love, the name of smashing the plateau. He is a business confident community builder, as well as podcast host who helps corporate professionals, or, as he likes to say, corporate refugees, successfully move into entrepreneurship. So today, David and I are going to explore some ideas around what this new entrepreneur, entrepreneur needs for long term success. So first of all, welcome to the show. David
David Shriner-Cahn: Janice, thank you so much. It's great to have great to be here, and thank you for inviting me My pleasure. And sometimes I get tongue tied over my own words, so I apologize. So let's start with your your own transition. You help professionals transform from corporate careers to business ownership. What inspired you to focus on this space? David Shriner-Cahn: Well, first of all, it's my story. I was an
employee for the first 28 years of my career. I've been an entrepreneur for the last 19 and even though most of my experience as an employee was running organizations, so I was, I was really good at the sort of the operations management it, and I'm way better. I was way better at it then, and probably way better at it than many entrepreneurs now. It still didn't. It wasn't enough to be able to do everything that you need to do to run a successful business as an entrepreneur, it
had some important pieces but, but it wasn't enough. So you started out corporate 28 years now, and when you went into business for yourself, it wasn't what it is now, then correct David Shriner-Cahn: it wasn't what it is now and and I had skills that that I think are beneficial to entrepreneurship, but it wasn't, but many people don't have right yet, I was still lacking. I was there were certain skills I was still
lacking. So what stood out the most for you that was that you were lacking and you had to do something about David Shriner-Cahn: so when I started my business, I I told people in my network what I was doing and Why I was doing it, and and I started to get some leads for new business from kind of random places, which is what often happens, yes, and it was enough to kind of get things started, but I kind of had a
wake up call. This was about nine months after I started my business a friend of mine who also had a long career like me as an employee and started her own business, when, in her case, she got pushed out. And anyway, she started her own business, and we were having dinner, and, you know, which is friend? And she said, Oh, you know, David, I'm, I'm part of this group that you might be interested in. Since you know, you're doing the same, same thing that I've done, maybe you'd like to come. So
that was a business networking event, right? It was the first time I had gone to one of these kind of structured business networking events, and and it was, it, on the one hand, it was kind of exhilarating to see all these people in a room who were there primarily to help one another with word of mouth marketing, right? Really, the whole point was, you know, if I have know somebody who needs what you offer, I'm happy to
make an introduction. If you have some, you know somebody else knows somebody who needs what I offer, they'll make an introduction, and everybody wins. So at the one hand, one hand, it was kind of exhilarating to see the energy in the room and see people really want to step up and help one another around entrepreneurship. It was a very, you know, different energy and different kinds of people than
than I, for the most part, had in my network. And then. Um, but the thing that was kind of daunting was there was, there was pressure to get up and and give a pitch. And I had never done that right. Never done it where you have to do it in a very short amount of time before a whole room full of strangers. So that part was exceedingly but I ended up joining because I
realized that this could be helpful. And you know, if you don't push yourself out of your comfort zone, you're not going to grow right, right? So if I could just then take what you just said and then back up to something else that you said, which was that, when you started out on your own, you told your corporate friends that you were doing this, what was their reaction? Were they helpful, or were they skeptical, or were they supportive?
David Shriner-Cahn: I'm going to say skeptical is probably an understatement. They said, David, what are you doing? Are you crazy? What are you going to do for health insurance? Like that was the most common question I got. Yeah, health insurance in the US has changed for the worst since then. But, yes, but, but, you know, it was before there was the Affordable Care Act. You couldn't, you couldn't buy individual insurance that easily, right?
I understand there, yes, so, David Shriner-Cahn: but, but as part of my role as an employee, I was, I was the group administrator, so I knew a lot about buying insurance. So it to me, it didn't seem daunting. You just had to figure out what the rules were and pay for
it, right, exactly. But it's interesting, because that is one of the biggest questions that comes up even here it does, although the in Canada, the, you know, the government helped in, probably in a different way, but that's another whole podcast discussion, but it sure is but, but I totally understand what those people were saying to you.
Some of them are probably wishing it was them being brave enough to do that, right to go out on their own, and others would never think of it at all, because they like the the safe environment, or supposed safe environment that they're in, right? Nothing in the US is safe today, it seems, but. But that was the case probably back then, right? So then in your case, would you say that your connections that you had when you went out into business for yourself were not really that
useful to you for your new business? Or were they? David Shriner-Cahn: Well, they were useful enough because I was able to get new business through them. Yes, yeah, through them, okay, it really, you know, when I look back on it, first of all, it was also, it was 2006 the economy was really strong. It was a good time to start a business, okay, had I started the business two or three years later, would have been, would have been quite different, for sure, but my connections were
enough to get to get enough business, okay? And I did find the first year, but it wasn't. It didn't really provide kind of a marketing engine or a pipeline of kind of consistent leads of the right kind, yeah, and honestly, I think, when it came to business challenges, the fact that I didn't have a network of entrepreneurs, I didn't really have enough people I could go to to talk about the challenges. Luckily, I didn't have that many. But when I think back on it that, like one of the biggest
detriments would have been had I had a lot of trouble. I'm not sure who I would have gone to at that point. But when you were you were a director, as I recall when we spoke earlier, you were a director of a nonprofit, nonprofit, right for a couple of, a couple of different ones over time that. And if you're the director, aren't you running that business?
David Shriner-Cahn: Yes, yes. And one of the Yeah, but one of the things I like to say about that is, even if you're in an executive role, and even, for example, if you're in a marketing or a sales role, so you're used to marketing and selling, which is one of the biggest challenges for professionals who go out on their own. It's very different when you when you're selling somebody else's stuff, yeah, versus getting up and trying to pitch yourself you're right. Very different feeling,
yeah, absolutely, you're right. And when I went out on my own, I'd come from corporate as a trainer, corporate trainer, and it was very evident very quickly to me that I didn't know how to sell myself and my services, because I all I ever did was show up, right? They would book The company would make the sale and book the train. Training, and I'd go in and do the training of the for the equipment that they had sold to the client. So it's very different, the marketing,
the selling, whatever, all of that. So, but I do feel that, and I've always felt this way, that it's it's not always what you know, it's who you know, and it's who they and who they know. And I bet you learned that very quickly, and in that networking organization that you joined, David Shriner-Cahn: yes, right? Very much who they know, yeah, it's who they know. And so you have to know how to how to build those relationships, make those new
connections and turn them into trusting relationships. So would you say that now, when you are teaching or not, teaching might not be your term, coaching new people in transition. Are you having to still do that today? Teach people how to build relationship? Because I know I have to on LinkedIn, David Shriner-Cahn: yes. Yes. Well, yeah, LinkedIn. I mean LinkedIn is, it's perfect platform for building
relationships, if you do it the right way. And you know, since, since you and I both generate a lot of content, and we're out there, we're very visible in spaces like LinkedIn, and you probably get the same kind of of request to connect that I get. And nine times out of 10 if I accept a connection request from somebody who I haven't already had an encounter with, the immediate thing that's going to happen is they're going to pitch themselves, yeah, well, I made the mistake of saying this on
someone else's podcast last week. It's the pitch slap. I think he's probably going to name that episode pitch slapping, which I'm horrified that I said that, but that's what it is, that's really what it is, exactly David Shriner-Cahn: what it is, right? And it's like if you if you met somebody at a party or, or, you know, a networking event, or you get introduced by somebody. You know, most people are not going to immediately pitch themselves, although you surprised at how many do, yeah, I've
David Shriner-Cahn: had that experience too, yes, right? And then I just want to run out of the room. Yeah? Me too. Me too. It's just, I think what one of the the best phrases that I ever heard was that you want to be interested, not interesting. Because if you are interested in what the other person has to say and who they are and what they do and and you're curious enough about it, then you get them talking about themselves, which, of course, they love to do.
You've gone in Technicolor now that's really interesting. Yeah, it's okay. There you go. It says we're not on video. We're on video, but we're not going to be on video. So it's okay. Interesting. Yes, it is, anyway. So if you if you meet somebody at a networking event or online networking, you can get them talking. You can guide the questions, too, if you want to, and let them talk. And usually what happens in that situation is, by the time it's time to leave that situation, they say,
hey, it was great talking to you. Had a super time. And you know, it's nice to meet you and learn all about you. They learn nothing about you because they did all the talking. But that's okay, because that's what you wanted to have happen. That's what I like to do, because then I can come back to them and have my opportunity, and by then they realize, you know what I talked to you all that time, I never learned anything about you. Tell me about yourself, and now you've got their one to one
attention, so it's a great time to do that. There you are. You're back to normal now. So what do you tell your clients are the best ways for new entrepreneurs to start expanding their network in a strategic or meaningful way? David Shriner-Cahn: You need to find your community, and in most cases, it's communities. You'll need different groups of people for different things, okay, but But find find your place, where you are connecting with like minded people, and where you feel like you belong.
So I think that's really good advice. I think that there's kind of like you said different things, for different communities, for different things. And one of the the things that I experienced with entrepreneurs, so is they'll say to me, Well, I'm just getting all my social done. I've got to get on my twitter done, and my my Instagram and my LinkedIn, and I'm like, Why do you need to be on all of them? Where are your prospects? Where is your community, for your terminology,
where are your people? That's where you need to be. Don't try and be everything to everybody. David Shriner-Cahn: And you, honestly, you don't need any of that to get business. You. What you need, what you what you need is a sale. That's right, that's really true. When I started my business, I didn't have a business entity, didn't have a website. I had nothing. I'm not even sure that I had anything
like social media. Then wasn't like what it is now, the only social media channel where I might have had anything related to my business would have been LinkedIn. And I'm not sure that I had anything up there initially, either. Mm, hmm. I discovered about six months ago that I was actually on LinkedIn in early 2004 I went What I didn't know I had a membership, or whatever you called it way back then
because I didn't know what to do with it. It wasn't until later that I started to explore that possibility and found it to be a great home for me and my business. So no matter where they go to build their community, do you ever have do you have people that you they really don't know how to talk to people, how to build that trust, how to make those relationships. David Shriner-Cahn: I have to say that, luckily, at this point
in my life, not so much. Okay, maybe 1520, years ago, I would have had more of those kinds of people meaning that they're meaning age wise, that you get more mature people now coming out of corporate or David Shriner-Cahn: no that, that the People that with whom I end up connecting, yeah, I um, tend to be a little better at the the give and take part of relationship building, so you don't find you have to teach that at all to people about how to build the right kind of relationships. Yeah,
David Shriner-Cahn: not so much. Okay, that's good. That's good. You know, I've never really thought about it, to be honest with you, okay? And, you know, maybe I'm lucky, and maybe it's who I end up attracting. At this point, it could be That's right. What was I gonna say? I had to follow up to that, and I forgot what it was. I know that for me, when I'm talking about, when I'm training someone on LinkedIn, and I'm talking about, I believe that
the mess, the money's in the mailbox. I believe you have to talk to people. It's not just about posting content. It's about, you know, strategically reaching out to the right kind of people that you want to be connected to. And I still find people that say, Well, what should I say? How? How should I fray? You know, frame the question, what should because they just, they think it has you. It is work. It's not working. It's not just making it happen because you said hello to
somebody, you have to show that you're interested in them. So that's what, where that was coming from. What would you say are the biggest networking mistakes that you're that you can see entrepreneurs make, and how to avoid them? And how would you tell them to avoid them? David Shriner-Cahn: Oh, biggest mistake is, is asking, asking more than giving, particularly in the beginning, you know, there's, there's three kinds of networkers, there's takers,
givers and exchangers. And that, right? And the best kind of of Networkers are exchangers, right? Obviously, if you're if all you want to do is take, nobody's going to want to give to you, right? That's pretty obvious. But if all you're going to do is give and you never feel comfortable receiving, then people are going to start to feel uncomfortable making introductions. Does that happen that people, oh, wow, yeah, yeah.
David Shriner-Cahn: I know people that, yeah, they feel very uncomfortable receiving which also means they tend to do things like they have low self esteem and they they will often undercharge for their services or not ask for the sale, and things like, right or not ask for the sale, even when it's right in front of them. And, yeah, so, so, you know, just giving is not good either, but it's good to know when it's time to give and when it's time to take.
Yeah, for sure. I think, I think it's time to give at the beginning. I think it's always good to give value to people before, before you, you know, work with them, because if you're going to or if there's an opportunity there that you might then they can see that you are trying to build trust with them and that you. That you you're not thinking like, you know how they always say, give your best stuff away. Well, don't be afraid to do that, because it works, right? Yeah,
David Shriner-Cahn: yeah. Just simple things like, how can I help you? Exactly? Who are you trying to meet? Maybe I know somebody I can introduce you to. Yeah, those are not hard things to offer. No, exactly. However, I do believe that building relationships is a long game and in order, so I know what I was going to ask you, and this is sort of fits in with this. So do you believe in an or, how do you teach your clients to to to build a business of referrals without
asking. Do you mean, do you say you got to ask for the referral, or do you believe the referrals will come based on the work that you do? David Shriner-Cahn: Oh, what depends? Sometimes I think it's important to ask for the referral. Okay, yeah, you need to let people know who your ideal client is and what some of the triggers are that might lead them to want your services. Fair enough. Okay, so one of my past guests wrote a
book called the long game, Dory Clark out of New York. Do you know Dory Clark, David Shriner-Cahn: yeah, yeah. Had her on my show too. Oh, fantastic. So she says, relationships, you know, take time. So what would you say to your entrepreneurs about staying consistent and building and maintaining their network? How do you tell them? Pete, how do you teach people to do that? How do you do that over the David Shriner-Cahn: well, there's always room for
improvement. I think, right? I think consistency is the most important thing, and being consistent, I'm sorry, being having a system to help you with your consistency. So for example, you know, for most people, there's a relatively small number of people that are, like, the key people that really drive the best business, right, especially if you're in a small service based business, yeah. I mean, like solopreneur business or or a small team, you know, it might be 15 or 20 people that I
call those the hubs. Yeah, exactly. So you need to make sure that you stay in touch with them regularly. So just, you know, have a calendar where you put their names on different dates, right? So let's say, let's say it's 24 people, for example, okay, right? And you want to make sure that you stay in touch with with these people at least twice a year, right? So that means you're going to have four touch points a month, right, which isn't a big deal, right? Which isn't a big deal,
and touch point could be. And I do like different things with different people, like, I have certain people that I'll send. I have a send a text once a week, okay, right? And I may not speak to them for a month or two. Okay, you know, either I text them, or they text me. It's always the same day, really. So is it? Is it because, like, you follow the same team or, or you have something, no, so it could be, it's random, okay, totally David Shriner-Cahn: random. Like, I have one friend who I
actually met through a networking colleague. Many, many years ago, we became friends and we stayed in touch. We've done some business together, but not a lot. But every Friday we send a text to each other. One of us does it, and by the end of Friday, I know like there are three or four people that I'll either text or send an email to on Fridays. And if I haven't done it, by the end of the day, oops, I forgot to do it. I got to send them out. And, you know, usually, like, maybe the other
person initiates it, but, yeah, right. So just kind of have some kind of system so that you make sure you stay in touch with those 24 people on a regular basis. That's nice. That's nice. I think there used to be a, um, an insurance guy that I met networking years ago. And, I mean, I didn't need his services. I already was taken
care of with, you know, my family and whatever. But um, every three months he would call me and leave a message if I wasn't there just to say hi, just to see because it wasn't just about me, it was maybe I knew somebody, and it keeps him top of mind. And eventually he came on my card sending service and did that as well with people, which was fun, but, but, yeah, I agree. I think that's important to stay connected and to because the especially if you're in a business that
you're. Really going to have a transaction with your client once a year, or maybe less, like a realtor, right? Or a mortgage broker, you have to stay in front of them, because they're the people that are going to have referrals for you or you may have for them, so it's to their advantage to stay in touch too.
Yeah. Yeah.
Do you tell me how? Okay, I'm a new client. I'm I'm, I'm transitioning from my corporate job, and I have an idea. When they come to you, do they have an idea for a business, or have they already started their businesses? And where do you start with them? David Shriner-Cahn: Well, for the most part, I invite them to join our community, because you have an online community or an in person.
David Shriner-Cahn: Well, it's interesting. We started three years ago as an online community, which actually was a pivot on two groups, one of which had been in person, and one of which was was only online. Okay, right. So I sort of combined the concepts and invited more people to join, yeah. So primarily, I invite people to join the community. Because what I find, especially for solopreneurs, you know, yes, I can help them, but I find that there's more magic that happens
when they're in a room full of peers. And it's not just me having that problem exactly, you know, I've been around the block a bit, and, and, and I've been working with this, this audience, for a long time. So, you know, I have a pretty good
sense of where all the pitfalls are. So, you know, I can ask good, targeted questions, which is my preferred method of trying to be helpful, but facilitating a conversation that I think really can impact where somebody's challenged, I find Is it can be really kind of like the golden nugget and and that's
where the magic happens. I try to encourage people just to join the community, and honestly, it's way more affordable than working one on one with me anyway, but I think it's honestly, I think it's better Well, I think that there's definitely something to be said around magic or the power of numbers, and people seeing that they're not the only one having this problem. They see that they can connect with somebody who's going through what they're going through, maybe to become
accountability partners. Maybe they're able to practice things with each other. So I think that's, that's probably a great idea. Do you also, I imagine, though, that there's, there's a percentage of those people that they want to work with you individually, right? David Shriner-Cahn: Or not a whole lot, they get most of what they need from the community. Okay, so, okay, so your podcast is also a place that
people can learn from, right? Yes, and so your audience for your podcast smashing the you've got more than one podcast, though, right? Well, David Shriner-Cahn: I was learning, I was running a second podcast for about three years called going solo. I found over time, initially, I've been podcasting for a long time, I started smashing the plateau in 2014 when long before you could
do zoom. So we didn't do it. We didn't do anything on video. We were lucky if we could get a decent audio to do a podcast. But anyway, so I started smashing the plateau. It was more of a general business success podcast, and the theme was, what does it take to generate long term success? It was really about not the quick wins. It wasn't about startups, because there were a lot of podcasts in those days about startups that were very popular. And I'm like, most people don't
spend much time in a startup. Most people spend time running the business, doing sort of the non sexy part of it, and that's what that's what's hard, yes. So that was the focus, and then going solo was specifically about the transition from corporate to entrepreneurship, and over time, the two podcasts became very similar. Okay, so I decided, yeah, I don't really need to let me sunset going solo and continue smashing the
plateau. And we'll actually, we'll. Talk about going solo, un smashing the plateau, sounds good. So when you're not working, what are you doing? David Shriner-Cahn: Try to spend time with family. I'm in New York, so we have, we have a lot of culture here. So yes, you do. Yeah, we go to the Philharmonic and the theater. Yeah, I wish I could. I love the New York theater. It's fantastic. Do you read? And when you read, do you read a real book, or do you read online or audible? Or how do you
read? And do you read business books or books for pleasure? David Shriner-Cahn: So I my preferred method of reading is paper. Okay, yeah, you know, maybe it's because that's when I grew up, that's how you learned how to read. Was on paper. And I can read. I can read much faster and get a better sense of, like, of a book, if I can hold it and sort of, you know, skim through it. And, yeah, anyway, so I like paper. I prefer non fiction. I do read a lot of business books, but I also like, I like
biographies. I like, I like things also that involve politics. Oh, okay, something I try not to talk about on podcasts. But, yeah, I David Shriner-Cahn: try not to talk about it either. And I knew you were going to ask about books, I was thinking, do I want to mention, do I want to mention something political or not? But no, listen, I mean, we've all become junkies of CNN and MSNBC or Fox, if that's our our leaning. I had to put them all out there in here, just to see what's going on down
there all the time, right? So, so I get it, it's everywhere today and every day, yeah? David Shriner-Cahn: So I don't, I don't watch any of those things. We actually, we don't have broadcast television anymore. Oh, that's cool. Yeah, we cut the cord a while ago realizing we didn't really watch it very much, yeah? And we thought we and it got to be super expensive, and it's just,
it's 25% commercials. So we cut that. Didn't miss it. And I also started going on a news diet around 2017 because I found it was just causing too much stress. Yeah, I do read The New York Times. So I, once in a while, treat myself to the New York Times, which cost me $12 here on a Sunday, the weekend edition, and then I just savor it for the next two or three days. David Shriner-Cahn: Yeah, these two times I read online. I read that. I see I don't
like that. I want to read the paper, so and I like to do the crossword puzzles. So that's David Shriner-Cahn: Yeah, I used to read. I used to read the New York Times religiously. When I had a job as an employee, I commuted on the subway. Yeah, I had an hour commute each way, so it was enough to read it. Oh yeah, hire new york times every single day. Oh my goodness, yeah. I just whenever I go out in the car, I have a podcast in my on in my car. So
that's what I do now. One last piece of business advice. If someone is making the leap from corporate to business for themselves today, what's one relationship building tip that you would focus have them focus on first, David Shriner-Cahn: get to know some people that are good at selling, good at selling in a way that you don't find icky, right, right relationship. What like? Relationships, selling, social selling. That's good advice. I
actually think so. Yeah, it's interesting, because some people say, Oh, I don't sell. I'm just sharing this with you, right? No, we're all selling. We're all selling if we're interested. Although, David Shriner-Cahn: I mean, I think about, like, the main thing that I'm selling right now is, is community membership. I try to think about it like I'm inviting you to participate if you think it would be a fit. I like that, yeah. And you don't know, unless you come and check
David Shriner-Cahn: it out, you don't know, right? So, yeah. So we invite people to come and visit a session or two to get a sense of who some of the other members are. And, you know, do they think it would be helpful for them? And how often do you meet? We have live sessions every week. Okay, it's a week, okay. Do you record them, like the people who who then pay for the community, or do they pay for the community? David Shriner-Cahn: So visitors who, you know don't, don't need
to pay for a session or two, but Right? Yeah, it is members. It's paid membership, and we do record the session. So if they're right, if there's a topic that you you want, you want to learn about, and you couldn't attend the session, you could watch the recording. That's cool. Yeah, interesting. Do you also network in those sessions? Do you get people to introduce themselves or not? David Shriner-Cahn: Yeah, and it depends also how many people we
have, right? Um, it depends on kind of the the style of the session. So some sessions, for example, we have members or sometimes guests that will lead, lead something that's a learning session, and it might be almost like a class where there, there isn't a lot of it's a lot of teaching and and not really so much opportunity for people to introduce themselves. So that happens with some of them. I would say the relationship building is a big part of what happens. And then, you know,
people on their own will meet one on one online. And then you know, I mentioned that it was intended to be an online community, but you never know what members are going to want to do. So we're based in New York. My Network is more New York kind of centric than other places. Just because I'm here, time zones make and David Shriner-Cahn: time zones make a difference. One of our members, who's in Atlanta, was going to be coming to New York
to speak at a conference. Got in touch with a New York member, and they talked about getting together for lunch, and they said, Oh, maybe we should reach out to some other people in the community, see who might want to come. It kind of snowballed, and it turned into a like, three quarter day session, fantastic. And then, and the member, who was in Atlanta, ended up having
to cancel coming to the conference, so, right? He was bummed that he didn't get to meet all these people, so that all the rest of them were, like, from, like, New York, New Jersey, they were all local and and they really liked what? And the members led the whole thing, like I had very little to do with it, yeah, and it worked so well, they all wanted to do it again, so we did another one in January, and now we're playing another one from late spring. So that's very cool. Not, not what
I had intended when part of this community. But you never know that's right, that's a good lesson in itself. Well, this has been great. Thank you so much. I think that, you know, we align so much in in our thoughts around being business owners and the importance of relationships. I believe that relationships are at the heart of every successful business,
whether you're leveraging old ones or creating new ones. So I thank you for sharing your insights on how corporate professionals can use their connections or build fresh ones to find success as entrepreneurs. If people want to learn more, where can they find you? David, I'm going to put it in the show notes, of course, David Shriner-Cahn: smashing the plateau.com and on LinkedIn. I'm the only David Shriner con in the world. Mm, hmm.
Okay. And smashing the Plateau has a tab for your your podcast as well, and I encourage my guest, my audience, to go listen to your podcast if they're at all interested in that transition piece and and what you do there, I'm going to be looking into your community and checking that
out. Thank you again for being here. Thank you to my audience for being here and for being a loyal audience, who, of whom I appreciate my I've just completed my 300th episode, and I'm kind of in awe of myself this week, because it just got I just recorded. It comes out. It'll be out by the time this comes out, but this is just after So again, remember to always sorry. Remember to stay connected and be remembered. And I would just add that I think relationships rule in business.
Thank you, Janice. My pleasure.