¶ Navigating Business Shifts and Overcoming Fear
Hi , I'm Erin Marcus , former corporate executive turned entrepreneur and founder and CEO of Conquer your Business . Welcome to the Ready Yet podcast . We're excited to bring you more than 100 episodes of interviews and insights designed to help entrepreneurs get the financial and emotional freedom they need in order to build a business and a life they're proud of .
All right , welcome . Welcome to this episode of the Ready Yet podcast , and this is going to be an interesting conversation . I'm so excited because my guest today , jamie White , is at a different point in her business than where I usually talk to people , and I think it's not just that you're , jamie , that you're at this point .
I think this is a point a lot of us go through , and it can be havoc wreaking , or it can be exciting , or it could be devastating , or it could be fun by the hour , right Every hour on the hour right .
So , before we dive deep into all the things , why don't you tell people a little bit more officially who you are , and I can't wait to hear what you say that you do .
Oh , erin , this is so awesome and I love how many descriptive words you have for what I'm in the middle of . And it's exactly true . So I am Jamie White with Believe Crew . I have a podcast called the Business Is you , and I've known for a long time that the issues in business are not always the business .
They're what's going on in the mind right , and so I've interviewed people and I've asked them all the same questions and they all have similar answers . And yet when I find myself in the middle of it , I still don't give myself enough grace , like even though I've heard it from so many people . So Believe Crew is kind of in the middle of a transition .
Where it used to be . the idea was it was going to be really big with hundreds of coaches and come to find out it's me and my husband offering soul care and strategy in our home and it's so beautiful and it's so amazing .
And it kind of scares me that I actually like it so much and I'm like I think there's got to be something bigger I'm missing , Like there's something bigger I'm supposed to be doing and yet it's not .
Like it's just . Yeah , it's bigger but it's small . Like I have been , one of the things I've learned is to pay , pay attention when the same topics keep coming up over and over and over again right In my world , and in the last couple of weeks I have had conversations about doing well in businesses boring , not exciting . Yeah true Keep it simple .
Less complicated is always better A lot . I did a show on what are you waiting for ? Why are we prolonging our suffering ? And I've had conversations just today about why are we fighting to hold on to things we don't actually want .
And then what I love that you did is you just referred to your business in the third person , like as a separate from you , saying oh my God , like like you're surprised at what the business turned out to be , as if you had nothing to do with it . But then , right , the business is you right . Which I love because I just am doing the same thing .
You know , we've recently come out with the next iteration of conquer , your business , which is nothing to do with the business I set up to create , and yet it's absolutely everything that I want . And so all of these themes have come up over and over and over and over and over again .
And so one of the things I said to you before we hit record that I'd love to dive into if you're willing , is this idea of quitting , this idea of quitting , and because quitting has this negative connotation to it and we're hanging on to things that don't work , we're hanging on to things that don't serve us , we're trying to hit a nail harder when we've
already proven there's no nail to hit anymore . What in the world were you thinking and feeling when you made such a big shift ? Because , effectively , you quote , unquote , quit one idea that you were kind of excited about .
I was super excited about it . You should see all my vision boards on it . I'm like , not only was I super excited about it , I went around talking about it for a year right Like I'm a manifestor , I speak things into existence and so it looked like it was all coming together exactly like I had envisioned until it wasn't .
And it was so almost overnight in the emotion and the energy about it that I really couldn't ignore it .
It was kind of in my face and things tend to do that when they're quiet , by the way , I think I was ignoring it when it was quiet for a couple of months .
Actually , now that you say that it was quiet for a couple of months and then all of a sudden it happened at the same time . The other interesting piece is that it actually is happening , or happened at the same time that the business that I was originally involved in when I was 18 , I was starting at 18 family business .
My parents invested in this idea of a furniture store , but my mom thought it would be a design store and my dad thought it would be a mattresses out of the warehouse in the back store . Those things go perfectly together . I didn't at 18, . I did not understand that that was a complete flop ready to happen .
Like here's a way to make it what's possibly the wrong .
So really really bad retail design experience , with me as the person leading it , at 18 and with no child , Child in charge of that idea .
I mean literally .
But we managed to string it together and hold on for 20 some years . And so the exact same month that the family was in the process of shutting that business down is the same month that I'm in the pivoting in another business . And so there's just a lot of fear of failure that I've been working through and had to work through .
Fear of success Like what are those fears that have been coming up ? What is the meaning that I was giving in ? I wanted to have a business that was , in a way , more than me and my husband . There's not much scarier than going into business with your spouse . I mean personal , personal , maybe you can even imagine .
And here , like , mike and I are together all the time . We both work from home , we hang out together , we do .
Yeah , we couldn't do that , yeah 15 years ago , 20 years ago , 10 years ago , we couldn't either Like . There was a point where I was like , oh my word , if we were ever in business together it would end in divorce . And now it's a complete 180 . And we can be super professional , even if we have personal problems , and we can show up for the business .
It is really , really interesting how it's completely shifted .
Tell me more about the oh my god , I'm letting this go conversation that you had to have with yourself .
Yeah . So , first of all , what I did different this time than I've ever done in my life is I reached out to the people that I had in my inner circle and this time I had support at such a high level that , even though it could have looked like a nervous breakdown , like in the past , it would have been a nervous breakdown this time .
It was just like it felt so different , and those people that are in my circle today , when I reached out to them , put time on a calendar . There were probably 10 of them , maybe not quite that many , and they all were supportive in this way where they saw what I couldn't see , and they were just like you're exactly where you're supporting .
Oh my god , right , isn't that so true ? It's always so obvious to everyone else .
It was so obvious to them and I was just like , tell me what you're seeing . And they were just like you're right where you're supposed to be , and I'm like how is this where I'm supposed to be , Whatever you're seeing .
I'm not there yet and it was almost magical , like I had people speaking into me in a way that I don't usually ask for , right , so I don't usually get to hear that from them of like how , what they're seeing , and so it was actually a really beautiful experience . But for myself , there were obviously still moments that I needed to be coached through .
And here I am crying on the phone or whatever , and these people are just giving me so much positivity Like they see so much in me . No , but you don't understand . It's fine , I know .
I did that a year ago with my . So we live across the street from a forest preserve and we had been gone . We went for an evening walk and I was on a rampage about something that wasn't working . And I'm going on and on and on about how the world's coming to an end . Everything is falling apart .
We get back , I go take a shower , I come out of the shower and he looks at me and he goes so how's my superstar ? And I'm like , were you not listening ? Like , were you not listening ? It's like it's fine If you always figure it out .
Yeah , yeah , no . So that's what I realized this time different . And then the other piece was just really recognizing what I was giving meaning versus what it actually meant or that it actually had no meaning . You know again this idea that I came from family business .
I ran multiple businesses and so I thought when I left those that I needed to prove myself and have a business that had multiple people and had this team and had something big about it . And really what's big about what we're doing today is that we're dealing with soul care .
We're dealing with where people are at and there are so many people that want to find their purpose and literally this is something like my husband helps people uncover their spiritual gifts .
You know like can we get bigger than that ?
Right , it's just totally seeing it from a different lens and I wasn't ready to look at it from that perspective before , and so it's been healing and painful and bumpy and I don't recommend it . But it's amazing Like I just still .
I always say I'm glad I didn't know what I didn't know , because then you wouldn't do it right .
Yeah , so the other theme that you and I have both talked about hearing a lot of and yet neither of us feel it yeah , this was really interesting to me that we're both surrounded by people who keep talking about how they're overwhelmed and overwhelmed with their to-do list and all of these things , and yet I don't really feel that way .
Now , in all fairness and transparency , you not feeling that is massively more impressive than me not feeling that . Oh no , I would say the opposite .
I mean today , maybe because I've been on , you know what looked like building a business , to know completely different but yeah , I'm sorry , how many children do you have ?
Okay , six , okay , I have zero , wait , wait , wait . I have zero children . I have zero other humans that rely on me to keep them alive . Okay , so I'm right there .
Yeah , it does matter .
It matters , like I have a team to support this business . So , yes , I'm driving it , but I have a team that
¶ Overcoming Overwhelm and Setting Expectations
supports this business . So , again , do not being overwhelmed by to-dos is much more impressive than me not being overwhelmed by to-dos . But talk more about that , because one of the things that I feel is it is now become the new . Fine , how are you ? Oh my God , I'm so busy . Oh my God , I'm so busy . And you hear yourself say that .
You convince yourself you're not . You're just too busy to function , and so you feel that . And I think , truthfully , one of the reasons probably that you and I don't feel that way is we've just done so much work on controlling our thought processes . I get to choose how I feel . I can choose to feel busy , I can choose to feel and control .
It doesn't actually matter what's happening .
Yeah , I think that there's a mindset shift that happened for me along the way . But I really to your point about what you said . You have a team right for your business and I look at my family in the same way .
They are my team , or I have a team to help and so , like my 18 year old does all of our laundry and I hate laundry I'm not gonna do it again a day in my life .
If you want your laundry done , go do it yourself , and I don't care if you're four Like I have a totally different perspective and the other thing is what I'm learning is that it's about the expectation I have for myself and what I think I'm gonna get done , or what I think I need to do in this role , versus what do I actually need to do , and I'm gonna
put this out here . I mean , maybe I'll get turned in or maybe , you know , like I said , I mean everything's still in beta . My kids maybe it'll turn me in 10 years from now when they realize the trauma that they did .
But so many parents are limiting their kids' screen time or trying to get them involved in so many things , and I've kind of done the opposite pull back and be like , okay , so we have a family organization , you get to choose what you wanna do .
Oftentimes they choose a lot of screen time and I say okay , and we talk about other things , we make other priorities , they learn other things , we get them involved . But I don't make it my life Like I'm , like I'm choosing what I wanna do . I wanna be on here recording a podcast with you . If they wanna be on a screen , I'm gonna screen .
Who am I to say something different ? So right now I'm just kind of breaking down the expectations that I have for myself and then putting it out there and saying why , why should I have an expectation ?
It's 100% accurate and I have a million opinions about child rearing and zero rights to have any of them .
I love it those are the best .
I get it . I get it . I've never been there , but I do watch people wondering why they're in the spot they're in . Well , they've created the spot they're in and frustration and over , you know , and we're , in this case , overwhelmed and cause . It can apply to your family , it can apply to your business , it can apply to anything .
Frustration is the difference between expectations and reality . That's frustration . And so when you change your expectations and you get your expectations closer to your reality , you have significantly less frustration and significantly less overwhelm and all of those other negative emotions .
Right , and it's the judgment , it's people responding to the judgment of what they think they're supposed to be doing versus what's actually going on in their world . Like we say , business and marketing all the time . Stop comparing yourself to other people's , stop comparing your business to other people's marketing and it's the same thing in family , I would assume .
Stop comparing your reality to other people's vacation pictures .
That truth bomb . You nailed it . I think this is the piece and the same for like whether you have kids or not , even in business . Again , I ran 35 employees in multiple companies from a hot pink piece of paper . Somebody else would tell you that it needs to be done in a system .
You know there needs to be some kind of a CRM or some kind of a project management system . I loved my hot pink piece of paper . I looked at it every day and I knew what was important and , intuitively , I picked the most important thing to work on and I had space for the fires when they came in because everyone else was doing what they needed to do .
I had created a business where I had space to work on the business and work on the things .
Well , and you can only do that right . You can only do that when you have , when you set expectations on , hold people to them . The same way with the kids , right , setting expectations and holding people to them , yeah .
I expect my 18 year old to do the laundry . I don't see the problem when he does it , we'll talk about it .
Right , but I think that's again like people are setting themselves up for frustration and overwhelm because , number one , they think they have to do everything themselves . They're scared to delegate anything . And then when they do delegate or try to get a team member on , they're not clear about what they're asking to have . Like your 18 year old .
Like laundry is a very finite , defined thing , right , we know what happens . It's dirty in one pile , it goes through two machines and gets folded and put it like . This is a very simple process . You need to do that with team members . Clarity is kindness . We get mad at people not meeting our expectations that we've never told them we had .
Yes , yes , that's what I had to learn as a leader in business was what are my expectations ?
How do I clarify them , how do I check in with employees and how do I make space for them so that I can show for them with their personal needs , more so than the business needs , cause oftentimes they knew what they needed to do business wise and it just , you know , some of the personal stuff gets in the way .
But when I made space is when I was actually able to have less overwhelm and get more stuff done . I don't know , people just assume I'm busy and so they don't invite me to lunch . I'm like , look , I'll go to lunch . What time do you want to go ?
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¶ Zone of Genius, Delegating Tasks
Well , and the other thing that you're taking with you that you have is businesses run as businesses . Businesses have teams .
The team members do what they're best at , which leaves the business owner to do what they're best at , which leaves management to do what they're best at , as opposed to the trap that so many solopreneurs , entrepreneurs find themselves in , where they're trying to DIY the whole thing , which means they're spending a lot of time doing a bad job .
It's something that actually doesn't move anything forward . That's tough .
It's super tough , and the thing that I also found is writing out all the things that I do and then being willing to give up some of the things that I'm actually really good at doesn't mean I'm actually giving those things up . It means I just have final say .
Right , I say I have ultimate veto power . Yeah , I just don't have to do all the work . Yes , because if I did , none of it would get done 100% . And also , I'm a big fan of not just don't do what you're not good at , but only do what you're the best at yes , yeah , that no one else really can do .
I mean , it's your zone of genius versus yeah , and that's for everyone on the team , that's not just for me , that's for everyone on the team should really , we have the funniest , you'll love this . So because you have a podcast , the Allison produces our podcast . The bane of Allison's existence for the last couple years was writing the description .
Yes .
Hated it with the force of a thousand sons , would be happy to produce seven podcasts a week if she didn't have to write a description and somewhere in the process we finally why ? Just because Allison's works on 75% of the podcast , why should she be doing that part ?
She hates it and it drains her , and it wasn't that she wasn't good at it , but she wasn't the best one on the team at it .
Yeah , and so it got moved to the person who helps with content creation , who happens to be a fantastic writer , who happens to love writing descriptions , and you just want to pay yourself a head like why did it take us that long to figure that out ? Well , allison was podcast person . Yeah .
Yeah , no , that's what I finally got to in the reviews with employees is , I would say you know , what are the jobs that you would love to let go of eventually or love to delegate eventually , and what are the challenges , the new challenges , that you would like to take on ? Like , those were the two things that I love to really ask .
And then people showed up , showed up differently , they filled out their review points differently .
Yeah , and it was like I can't promise to me . But don't gloss over that , because I think , as a leader , asking people what you know , because most people do the opposite . They want to pile on responsibilities and most employees think the way to move up or get a better pay is by adding more responsibilities to what they're doing .
This is good , this is really good Right . And what you're saying you did was the exact opposite approach , and I can't . I ask people all the time like going back to Allison . The other thing she will not do is event planning not going to happen . She might reserve a room for me . She's willing to do that , Right , Like people should feel .
You want your employees , you want your team to show up the best . Yeah , Give them permission to hate doing something and not have to do it .
Yes , yes , I was like what do you not want to do ? Because I don't want you doing that either . Then I don't . I didn't know , you don't like it , until you tell me you know that's one of the things . Like even my kids .
I got a 16 year that goes to work and he was going to ask for a raise and he's like well , because it's been two years , which you know . Unfortunately , the culture of the company has changed a little bit since I've been there and so that's actually what they do base it on .
But I was like can you come from a perspective of like is there anything else that I can learn ? You know , if you're coming to me asking for a raise , it's possible that your position is only worth a certain amount unless you're willing to develop a new skill or willing to step into a new role or level of responsibility .
So like , shifting their mindset in that and helping them see that from a new perspective is what I just spent a lot of time doing and I loved it . In the end . It was like this is amazing helping develop all these people , helping them see things from a new perspective .
And then they were back to earlier . And then you were so shocked when people thought you were doing the exact thing you're supposed to be doing now .
Hmm , hmm , hmm .
Really enjoyed thinking about this , though , again , and just that perspective of like , what are people called to do , what are their , what is their zone of genius , and recognizing that wherever that whisper is in your heart is really where you're supposed to be , not you know , like no one else is called to be there , no one else is hearing that exact whisper .
Well , and I think there's some introspection and some understanding of Not everything you love doing has to earn you money . I think that's a big mistake people make is everybody now thinks everything they love doing , every passion that they have , should actually turn them into an income . That's you don't have to- .
Kayaking is not gonna make me money . No , no , I love kayaking , but it's not gonna make me money and I don't want it to make me money . I will show up , but I don't want you to have an expectation that the kayak's gonna be clean because it's gonna be free of spiders .
Low expectations . This is a come as you are kayaking situation . So there's , yes , what is your zone of genius , but don't confuse that with making money off of everything you like , and I think all this story about multiple streams of income and gig economy has people thinking that they should forever and always be making money at everything that they do .
I think you'll get that , totally get that Right .
And those are different things . And then I've also been warned don't turn your passion into your job , because then it becomes your job , and I think there's a difference between that and what are you called to do .
Yeah , something about that . There's a lot there , erin , because , like , I loved what I was doing . I loved so much about it and it wasn't because it was the type of business necessarily , it was because of the people that you need to work with . You hear that from people .
They're like it doesn't really matter what I do , but I love my team and they'll follow their team members like nowadays with jobs and interviews and things like that . They follow the people . Why ? Right , because I don't know , we're just creatures that are engaging with people .
Right , human is community , but at the same time . So if someone is trying to find their zone of genius , where do you tell them to start ? One of the things that I hear all the time is I don't know what I want . I started the same thing . My whole business is based on reverse engineering . Right , my entire business is helping people reverse engineering .
So the question I always start with is what do you want ? And most people can't answer that .
If someone asked me the question what would you do if you had $50 million ? And that sort of helped me to clarify some things , Because now I've got the money to supposedly do whatever it is that I want and I realize that there's so much that I wouldn't change about what I already have . Like that too can be really healing .
Oh yeah , I mean , I did that even with my husband and my spouse . I did an ideal partner challenge and he ended up having most of the things on it , and so I was like this is actually really good .
This is good news . This is good news .
So what do I really want ? And thinking about it from a perspective like how do you get started , how do you reverse engineer something if you don't know what you really want ? You do have to know what you really want and spending the time to figure that out .
So come from this perspective , like , say for me , with this $50 million sitting in my pocket , one of the things I realized that I really want is I want to earn the money . I don't want the gift . I'm not looking for a handle .
You're a good Miss Westerner , I'm a good Miss Westerner .
Yeah , you think I could start a nonprofit with it . So at least you know nothing else but give it away , give it away . No , I'm not . I believe in giving people jobs , not giving people a handle .
Absolutely so I was looking for a job opportunity . Empowerment not rescue 100% . Empower people , don't rescue them Totally , totally . So I'm going to shift gears on you a little bit . I love it . Let's share one of your biggest failures , Because it's the one that we just talked about .
That's not a failure To me , that's like massive , massive win , Because there's all these business gurus out there , like Gary V , whoever you follow , and that's fantastic and they're very inspiring and that's awesome . But they're also for the general public , probably too far along in their journey for most of us to learn tactics from , to learn step by step from .
And I love sharing what I call the dirty underbelly of the reality of the entrepreneur , because we don't want to really buy into the Instagram truth and we all know that consciously , but some consciously it's hard to delineate . So what's some stuff that just the way I describe this is if you just don't do what I did , you will be ahead of the game .
So one and I know I've heard it from other people and yet doing it myself as a whole different experience is to fail faster . And I think that's another reason that I'm intentionally doing it this time , like pivoting it . And you're saying it's more of a win . But with Furniture Studio early on , when it was a complete disaster from the start up .
But I didn't know it and I was the A student and so I was like no , I know what is expected of me , I know how to get the A , I can do this , let me do it . And my mom , who had been in business for years but had cancer at the time and knew she couldn't support me and knew she couldn't help me , was like maybe we should just shut it down .
And I was like no , no , because I did not want to be seen as a failure and putting labels on it , thinking about it like that , I didn't even know that that was the thought that I was having . It was such a subconscious , unconscious thought .
So the biggest failure was trying to keep it going for 15 years longer than it needed to be going , and to not accept that . That's actually it's OK . It's OK to just let that go and then move on to something else . That's one of them .
The other one that comes to mind is not acknowledging how long healing takes when there's been a toxic situation or when we hear about this too , like a rebound relationship or something like that . I think in a way the first business idea for belief group was sort of a rebound relationship .
Oh , my god , that's a great way to describe the first thing when I called 2018 the Aaron's Year of Failure . I'm going to call it Aaron's Business Rebound Year . Yes , like a rebound relationship .
Bad idea .
What was I thinking ?
Yeah , and until we go through it it's kind of hard to know that , but being able to label it , give it a name , say it what it is and move on . But those are some , and I even read the Road Less Stupid by Keith Cunningham .
Like I love that book , Like there's so many things that I've tried to learn from other people and instead have had to go through them .
Well , because I don't think you can think your way through most of this . You can really only act your way through , behave your way through , right , right .
Who am I being in this process ? Yeah , and the other thing is I stayed in a toxic Environment a little too long , like I didn't know that I didn't have good boundaries . I didn't know that I thought I see potential in everything .
So it's really hard for me to acknowledge when a narcissist is a narcissist and but right , it's the learning change them , learning the difference between being responsible to someone and being responsible for somebody . Yeah right , I'm responsible to you to show up in my best self , but not for you and what you choose to do with that .
That is the shift that I made towards the end , and that is why we're no longer together . No , but it took a lot to get there .
So if people want to continue this conversation with you , what is the best way ?
for them to find you Believecrewcom . You can find me on my podcast . The business is you , but the website believecrewcom . I'd love to connect Awesome .
Well , thank you for your time , your transparency , your honesty , your sharing and also sharing what you're going through while you're going through it Right , a lot of times I would recommend wait until you solve a problem before you share it , but there's a lot of benefit to realizing this like this happens to all of us at every level of success that this is an
ongoing process . There's no such thing as oh , I just solved my mindset , I just solved business like this is how this works , and so hearing people who are able to articulate how that feels and what it's like is , I think , very , very helpful . So thank you for that .
Thank you . It's awesome to hear
¶ Finding Inspiration in Sharing Success Stories
from others . It's often , as an extrovert , it's awesome for me to hear it myself . When I say it , like if you're asking good questions , then it's like oh , I can process that . Yes , I process externally as well , so it's totally yes , I'm surprised by what I have to say sometimes .
So shocking awesome . Thank you so so , so much . I Hope you enjoyed this episode of the ready yet podcast . I truly enjoy bringing these stories of success and inspiration to you .
Please join us in our mission to empower entrepreneurs to be in charge of their businesses and in charge of their lives by sharing this with anyone you know who would benefit from our tactical and motivating advice , leaving us a review and letting us know if there are any particular topics you would really appreciate hearing about . See you next time , oh .