Welcome . This is the Public Relations Review Podcast , a program to discuss the many facets of public relations with seasoned professionals , educators , authors and others . Now here is your host , Peter Woolfolk .
Welcome to the Public Relations Review Podcast and to our listeners all across America and around the world . Now , apple has ranked this podcast among the top 1% of podcasts worldwide and recently Feedspot listed this podcast as number 13 on its top 70 best public relations podcasts in the United States .
So thank you to all of our guests and listeners for your continued support and if you enjoy the podcast , please leave a review . Welcome , and here's the question for the audience Does your business or organization have an individual responsible for managing all external and internal communication strategies ? Is it important ?
Who oversees all messaging and media , from investor relations to crisis communications and more ? My guest today considers how projects and programs come together for clients to receive information , be that reading , seeing , hearing or experiences . Joshua Altman is the Managing Director of Beltway Media in Washington DC .
His experience includes harnessing data-driven methods , behavioral science principles which provide an edge in public affairs policy , and crafting compelling narratives . So , joshua , thank you so very much for joining me today .
Thank you for having me .
The question now becomes how do you begin to use , how clients receive , information to begin crafting strategies behind behavioral sciences and so forth , to have them strategically and effectively deliver their messages ?
I think that's a great place to really start this , because you're asking how we kind of begin a project how are they getting their information ? So it starts with a conversation with that client . You know what are they doing and in some cases the answer is actually a blank slate .
They're really not doing much in terms of their communication , especially in an integrated way . So , in terms of how they're getting information , sometimes it's just you know of their communication , especially in an integrated way . So , in terms of how they're getting information , sometimes it's just you know their customers , their clients , talking to them .
Other times you know they're running LinkedIn ads or you know doing the occasional . You know blue sky , twitter X post and they're just looking at . You know reposts and comments and they're just looking at you know reposts and comments , and that's how they're getting the information .
And for us , we look at that when we're beginning to craft these strategies , using things like behavioral science , which really just is a fancy way of saying understanding why individuals and groups act the way they act and groups act the way they act , and from there we can start working with them to get usually better and more information , to start informing better
decisions .
So does it also depend exactly crafting what the specific message not only the specific message is going to be and how it's going to be crafted , but also how it's going to be delivered to their audiences ?
Always matters . One of the things we talk about a lot at my firm is what people read , see , hear and experience . So if you are a federal agency and your audience is 300-plus million American adults or 330-ish million Americans overall , that's going to be very different than if you are a b2b firm working specifically in the energy industry .
So kind of who their audience is and what they get is very different . And if you're a federal agency and you have , you know , hundreds of millions of people in your audience , you got to cover a lot more bases than , say , that b2b energy firm which you know . You know where those trade shows are . You know who the decision makers that companies are .
You can get a list of companies that you are trying to reach out to and know who your audience is . You know one firm I spoke with at one they were saying we kind of know who we want . We have a list of 100 decision makers who we're targeting . Like well , that's a small audience , right , that's very small .
Like you got a , you know sometimes emails you're looking for you know . You know , depending on , you're going for an opens . You're obviously looking for a lot more . You know 30 is percent , maybe 40 on the low end . That's 40 people . It's that particular audience , so your open rate better be really good if you're targeting that . You know using emails .
As opposed to getting 40 people out of 330 million plus Americans Big difference in your rate there . So who they're trying to reach out to and kind of what they hear back from is important . And the flip side of that , when you're dealing with a company like that you know , b2b Energy firm , with a list of 100 decision makers , it could be very personalized .
Like , your feedback is you know , we know that . You know , joe Smith told us on this date that this is what they're looking for . Like , your feedback is you know , we know that you know Joe Smith told us on this date that this is what they're looking for .
Like , we can work with that so you can really get personalized , actionable feedback when you have such a small list , which is an advantage , but it is a very small list .
You know , one of the things you brought up , of course , is working with the federal government , and I don't believe we've had a guest on here that has actually spoken in detail about working not only with the federal government , but also with and for the federal government . I've done both .
Let's talk about the federal government for a moment or so , as to how there are different audiences and how you have to do more for them to get whatever their messages are out .
Yeah , so I was a federal contractor at two different agencies , the Department of Justice and the Department of Commerce , and with that you know . So I was not a federal employee , I was a contractor . I was a subcontractor . Okay . So when you're a federal employee , there are different things going on .
As you know , in my role as a contractor , as a subcontractor , you have to reach a lot of people . Like I said , you know there are about 300-ish million American adults . Add in , you know , children , you're up to about 330 million or so , plus or minus a couple million , and reaching them requires you've got to hit everyone you have .
In terms of the US , these agencies covered everywhere , from the North Atlantic to the South Pacific . We covered Guam because we had people there and we had to communicate with that population , with that audience . So it's a lot in terms of just geography .
And of course , you're thinking the Internet is borderless but people are different across geographies and you got to figure out what you got to do to reach them . Your audiences are , of course , very different .
We're not trying to make tools that anyone in the US would use and be comfortable accessing , which can be a lot when you have that many people of that level of diversity and I think a lot of agencies really do a great job doing it , you know , considering that it's a big lift to reach that many people who have , you know , just diverse experiences and
backgrounds , who you know need to get information in very different ways . So we would , of course , do things you know , just like anything you know commercial business would do . You know we had you , we had images , we had infographics . If we had people who were going to in-person events , they brought one-pagers with them .
I worked with the agency to do the content and design , so that would work with people who maybe weren't online as much .
Well , one of the things that I think that , because I work for the Department of Education , and one of the things is that , yes , there are a lot of people there , but also some of those that audience can be broken down to smaller groups One of the things I had to do was to put together a satellite meeting for community college people around the country .
Well , that was a much smaller audience . You know , I had to hook up the satellite in Washington and get it fed around to all over the country . You know the big part of it was , you know , where am I going to get this thing downloaded ?
Well , the thing I found out was that , you know , a lot of community colleges do have satellite systems where they do pull down information , and there was an office of community colleges in the department . So , working with them , I knew who I could call on to pull the signal down . But then there's also the question of getting a signal up to them .
So I learned a lot , you know , over there . And also the diversification of the audiences . Yes , I mean the federal government reaches the entire population for some things , depending upon what it is , might be just a smaller part of the population , but the government .
Working for them is a whole different system as compared to working for the private industry people .
Yes , and you know you were dealing with . You know satellite uplinks and downloads More recently . You know we do webinars , just like .
That's right with agencies .
It's , you know , zooms and team webinars and go-to meetings , and you know it's a very different situation . So you don't have to worry as much now about , you know , dealing with those satellite links which , of course , were very expensive .
Running webinars still has costs associated , of course , but in terms of budget-conscious spending taxpayer dollars , it is a much lower number of dollars when you are working on a GoToMeeting or Microsoft Teams webinar or Zoom than you are when you're trying to do satellite uplinks and downloads .
Well , yeah , I was at the beauty of my age when I was doing that , you know , I mean that was a big thing . Then You're absolutely right , it was , and it wasn't that long ago .
And it wasn't that long ago .
And it wasn't that long ago , I remember doing them .
I remember earlier in my career we would use satellites and special virtual systems . You had to call it and get special internet for it .
It was not as easy as it is today at all , which I think is great , because it means private companies and government can be in more places and reach people much more directly than when you had to be at the community college , where they had the satellite connection available .
That's right , you know . One of the other things I mentioned in the opening is that you began to craft strategies and you also used some behavioral sciences in some of the projects .
Talk a little bit about that , how that interacted , how that was involved in how you developed some programs . Yeah , so behavioral science covers a lot of things , things like decision-making biases , you know , social influences and just , of course , our habits .
So when we're kind of using that , we think about , you know , in terms of communication , such as , you know , corporate or government communications how people are going to get that information and what makes sense to them . So that frame , that message , how are they getting it ?
But a great example that's kind of easy to understand in a podcast setting is you can't just say it once , you can't just say it twice . There's an often repeated statistic and it might be apocryphal , especially it's changed over time that people need to hear things seven to 14 times to really internalize an act , and that's been repeated for a long time .
So we think how can people get that information 7 to 14 times or as often as possible ? And now one thing I really like to focus on is how can we get it out there over as many touch points ? As possible . So of course , phones , desktops , computers , tablets are where people are really getting things .
Tv , of course , still very expensive and not used the most by a lot of the businesses I'm working for and a lot of you know the smaller government agencies are using it less . Uh . You see a lot for um , medicare , open enrollment . You see the government using uh tv , but for me it was mostly , you know , getting it out there online .
So it's using things like paid ads , which there are different biases towards paid ads . Either oh , it's an ad , I ignore it . Then that was kind of sneaky . They used sponsored content and it was light gray that it said sponsored , hard to see on white , I'm not sure that's a little deceptive . So that was a different bias towards it .
So you've just got to really be repetitive with that and that's something we try over and over again to be effective doing .
You know , one of the things that as I listen to you talk about that , that comes to mind that some years ago I was doing some lobbying for AT&T here in Nashville because they wanted to get cable systems into all over the state . But the biggest issue for them were and where the tough spots came were rural areas .
You know you don't have a lot of people , but you've got to put out a lot of cables to get the system there and the government required it . So there was a lot of negotiation that had to go on about that , you know , in terms of how people receive it , but it was imperative that they did if they wanted to receive the license to do that .
So you know they had to sit down with the government to decide what they were going to do and , you know , make the arrangements . I mean that's the bottom line . So those are some of the other things that have to be . When you talk about experience you have to deal with . You know how do people get their information ?
Yes , I mean they get the newspaper , but the government . If you want to have that cable TV system out there which they wanted them to do because the government also uses it , then you've got to put the wires out there , like it or not , and expensive or not , and you find some way to pay for it . But it has to be done .
Yeah , actually I've always found the economics and social area around wiring Today it's fiber , but getting that cable laid across the entire country just to be one of the most interesting communications challenges .
I think it's been done very well because we have , you know , first cable , first phone , then cable TV and now , you know , high-speed Internet across a lot of the country . And it's a lot of land to cover . So you would know , having done that with AT&T , it's just , even in one state it's a lot to cover and we do a great job Overall .
There are , of course , patches where it's not present or it's slower , but over time it does reach .
Mm-hmm , tell us a little bit about , let's say , maybe some of the more compelling projects that you've been working on that had the biggest mountain to climb to solve the problem . You know but through you know , your experiences and joining with other colleagues , that you did come up with a way to get the job done . Have you had those kind of experiences ?
Yeah . So there are probably two big you know buckets companies will fall into . One is they are a total blank slate , they really haven't done much in terms of their communications , and the other is they've done a lot and it's a little disjointed , and both of those present two very different challenges .
So let's talk a little about you know , the blank slate one . You know they're a company . They have been around for you know maybe 10-ish years , but outside of their kind of small community they're not as well-known as they'd like to be . A lot of that's kind of working with them and building up audiences , because you kind of have to have that first .
So we look at do they have email lists Like what can we use that they have already in place , because they're really not starting as much from zero as they often think . They've collected emails over however many years of clients , of vendors , of whomever they work with . They have their LinkedIn networks .
They might have a Twitter X page that they occasionally used . So what can we do with that to make it work a little better and leverage existing things ? And once we kind of talk with a client about that I was working with a firm that did a little bit of work in the energy sector firm that did a little bit of work in the energy sector .
I don't want to give them away because I don't want to disclose what they've done , but they had a lot of that because they've collected these things and once we told them here's what we can do , they were a lot more comfortable , because when they think they have nothing this is true with a lot of companies , not just this one they get a little nervous .
Mm-hmm . And when they're nervous , you know they may make . You know this goes back to behavioral science . You know irrational decisions are based on poor information . People are more comfortable in their decisions . Mm-hmm . So we took everything they had kind of assigned some value to it . Okay , we can .
This is a really valuable email list you have , really valuable email list you have . We can use that and start creating email sequences for everything from onboarding , you know , to get people on , and also just email marketing , you know , tell people what you're doing , just updates , mm-hmm .
And once we kind of started from that , it was able to grow a little more .
One of the things that I think has come out in terms of what you sort of just described there , and I think it's important for public relations people to understand , is that part of your job is problem solving .
How do you help a client get over this particular hump or clear this particular hurdle to get this particular message out , or whatever it happens to be ?
So the more and the wider your experiences have been , the more exposure you've had to a lot of operations and processes and electronics and computers and so forth really helps to solve those problems , because that's why they have you there . How can you help me get this job done ? And the better prepared you are , the better off you're going to be .
Yes , and you know we are , you know we look at things as a particular job . Of course they have a goal they want to accomplish a particular job . Of course they have a goal they want to accomplish , but we think of it . You know , we are , you know , chief communications officers for our clients , uh , which means that we are fractional . So it is much more .
We are integrated into what you do . It's not you know we are here to do your email marketing . You know we are really here to shape perception and build trust , maintain that trust long term . So it's not we are just here to launch a product . We are just here to manage your social media . It's how are all these things working together ?
Now have you also been in a position where you had to introduce them to new programs and or platforms that could facilitate the work that they're doing ?
All the time , okay , all the time . It's a very common thing , and you know , one of the reasons for that is you know , we are the communications experts . We're the experts at communicating your expertise . You are the expert in whatever it is you do , be it healthcare , energy , it , government .
We don't expect you to know every platform or every tool out there , just like we are not experts in , you know , performing surgery if you're a healthcare client Like we just aren't because we are not experts in performing surgery if you're a healthcare client , we just aren't because we are not surgeons .
So all the time it's kind of bringing them in and there are ways we do that to introduce these new products or new platforms for them and usually it's easy . There isn't a lot of pushback in general because you know we're not saying use product A or use this email delivery system . It's much more .
We you know like using a couple of these you know for email and we'll give a list . I'm not trying to endorse any particular product or service third-party service here so I'm not going to start selling them , but here's a list of three or four that we've used . Here are the benefits and drawbacks to each , because every platform has ups and downs .
Nothing will do everything and nothing will do it all great .
So we lay it out that way and I found that when you provide those options not limitless options , but a discrete list of three or four that kind of do similar things you know , email marketing or social media management or research , if you know , we're in an early stage and we kind of want to just know the lay of the industry , get that lay of the land
there , how we do it , and then they feel they are a little more comfortable and a lot of times I get a response of well , it doesn't really matter to us which platform you use , as long as we get a result . They're a little less concerned with is it product A or product B , they just want their thing done .
They don't care if I use Microsoft Word or Google Docs . It makes no difference to them who my email provider is Same thing . They just want to see that value come out .
Well , and I think it's important , as we just mentioned , that you do point those things out to them , because a lot of folks who have been in some of these jobs , when you talk about the government , they've been there for years and you know maybe they don't get the exposure to the different platforms that are coming out , because maybe their agency just hadn't
had a need for them and you know they continue to do things the way we as a lot of folks . Well , this is the way we've always done it . Well , maybe that started back , you know , years ago and things have changed and so they do need things .
I mean , yes , it's expeditious , it's there to help you do your job better and faster , I guess is the best way I put it to people and the government , for the most part , can't afford them because , I mean , some of this stuff is really not outrageous in cost .
It's just effective in terms of being able to use it and it helps you get your job done quicker , faster and , in some cases , better it is . And you know you kind of touched on , you know kind of laying these options out . That's what I do in pretty much every situation with a client or on a project I'm working on is .
You know , I start with my very first conversation before they are even officially a client at that point , and it says my job is not to tell you only things you want to hear , it's to give you options , it's to wait , tell you pros and cons , it's to tell you challenges and help you make a decision .
And I'm here to work with you through that , but not only to tell you the things that you want to hear . And I think that does help build some confidence that they know okay , from the very beginning . It's not all rosy . There are pros and cons across the board and I will be very upfront with that .
And I'm glad you mentioned that too , because that was the very next thing I was going to say that all decisions have consequences . So the more you know about what it is you want to get and you want to have done and how you want it to be done , here are some of the platforms that can help you get there .
Maybe there's some pros and cons a little bit about this one or that one , but you know , rather than you're still using some . You know old equipment . Here's some new stuff that is better , is faster and it's making your life a lot easier .
That's what a lot of folks like to hear yeah , and I think what they like to hear is that , plus , you know especially you mentioned this- lower cost a lot of a lot of these services . You know they're out there and they seem like it's just another subscription . I know we all have subscription fatigue , but they can when used judiciously , improve results .
It doesn't mean go buy every subscription to every service , but the right ones can really help you , and some of these products do make a huge difference .
Well , you know the other thing too , that you know particularly whether it's the government or otherwise . There are a lot of platforms that are out there that do excellent jobs for you , and they happen to be free . Oh yes , I do my recording . I'm recording on Audacity right now . It's one of the better audio platforms in the world .
As a matter of fact , I've been using it for years and it is maybe number one in some people's eyes and number two in some others , but it has a lot of features , it can do a lot of things for you and the cost is zero .
Yeah , I've always been a fan of free , especially open source , software and tools . Some people knock it because , oh , it's free . I'm like , yeah , it's free .
And it's good .
That's the other part of it Well , some of them are great .
Right .
Some of them I wouldn't want to use . Some of them I wouldn't want to use . But the great ones really are on par or , in some cases , better than subscription options . They might require a little more technical knowledge to use , but some of these free , open source platforms are great . They're out there .
And they've been around for years , which sort of validates how well they've been working .
And you know you look at some of the platforms , things like Audacity , others out there . You know some web hosting content management systems .
They have great communities behind them that do this open source work and some of them , some of these platforms , actually have resources in major companies that , since they use them , those big companies put teams on maintaining them .
Well , Jonathan , this has been a great discussion on some of the things that you've done and how you've gone about doing those . Any closing remarks for the audience ?
Yeah , I would always say , you know , one thing we talk about is , you know , communicate strategically , not voluminously . Be smart about your message .
Well , I certainly tip my hat and go along with that one . That's a hugely important thing to say , and let me say this I want to thank you for coming on to the Public Relations Review Podcast and sharing your wisdom with our audience .
Thank , you for having me .
And I'm sure you're going to get a great deal from this . From my audience , I'd like to say thank you for having me , and I'm sure they're going to get a great deal from this . From my audience , I'd like to say thank you for joining us once again .
You continue to make us a global podcast and if you've enjoyed the show , we'd certainly like for you to go to the publicrelationsreviewpodcastcom website and leave a review for us , and also share the fact that you've enjoyed this particular episode with your friends and colleagues , and listen to us for the next edition of the Public Relations Review Podcast .
This podcast is produced by Communication Strategies , an award-winning public relations and public affairs firm headquartered in Nashville , Tennessee . Thank you for joining us .