Episode 122: Love Actually & actual impact

Hey everyone, today's episode is brought to you by... Hot Wheels, which you might remember Billy joked about, the live show last year. Yes, he reckoned they were in talks to create a Billy and Nick dream house. Sadly, that actually hasn't happened yet. No, yes. Yeah, but something just as cool is.

a chance to partner with a brand that is all about helping kids build confidence and resilience. Hot Wheels is all about giving kids the confidence to take on challenges like launching a car through a loop, crashing into the couch, rebuilding the track and giving it another go.

Hot Wheels is not just fun. It's about learning through action. Try, fail, repeat, grow. That's what players should be all around, right, Billy? And that's why we're really proud to have them support the pod. All right, I've got it. Maybe instead of a dream house. It's time for the Nick and Billy Ultimate Garage.

Mate, I'm thinking of something even better. Maybe our own PCP Hot Wheels set. Yes, in our theme colours. And just like this sponsorship, all of those funds will go towards guiding growing minds, supporting kids in the community. Brilliant, Billy. Hey, let's make it happen. All right. Go grab your Hot Wheels cars, clear some space on the floor and settle in. This episode is going to be a good one. Billy, we have just wrapped episode 122, Love Actually and Actual Impact.

What are people going to learn this week? Yeah, so we talk about quite a complex theory that I hope is helpful and kind of share the context of the last two weeks, what I've seen in clinic, what I've been going through. And then probably my favorite bit is you go through these beautiful things that you've taken.

out of the last year, which is what we're going to ask audience members for. But, yeah, what about you? What did you think of it? I loved it. I thought Yuri's science behind a bit of a spoiler was fantastic and he had this... great phrase that was you can be irrationally crazy about a kid. Is that right? Yeah, we'll go over it. Need some refinement, but that's what the episode's for. We do unpack it, just about an hour long. So we hope you enjoy it. Please send in.

please send in your suggestions off the back of the episode. You'll learn a little bit more when you go through reflections. Advice. Yes, and advice. We hope you enjoy the episode. Thanks very much, Billy. Thanks, Dr. Nick.

I'm Billy, a developmental paediatrician. And I'm Nick, a developing parent. We're going to use scenes from iconic movies to talk about how we best support our kids. This is Pop Culture. Good morning, Dr. Billy Garvey. How are you? Good, good, Dr. Nick. It's been a very big fortnight for me. Really? Well, yes, we'll cover that, but how are you?

I'm good. It has too been a big fortnight month as well. Yes, you have. You are looking wonderful. I mean, you always outshine me in your attire. I'm wearing a shirt today. I'm in the office after this. We record quite early in the morning and so I then go into the office. Blue does look good on us. Maybe I've got another. colour that I can go through every show in. Well, you know, I died on the camo green hill yesterday in a meeting with, like, all of my colleagues.

I was like, I think it looks pretty good on me. And they were like, oh. And I was like, this is as good as the green. This is as good as it gets, guys. And I said that I was draping myself. And then I ended up using a bit of AI to put. Thingo Irwin, the young, good-looking Irwin bloke. Oh, yes. Not Steve, it's Steve. God, how bad is that? Anyway, he's doing Dancing in the Stars, I think, in the States at the moment. He's huge. Robert.

Robert, yeah. And they'll put him on my khaki green shirt. Making AI work a bit too hard. I don't know if I ever told you this, but we're trying to figure out merch to help us fund everything. And I was always like, wouldn't it be great if we got you to design a cardigan? I went back through, well, we're going to get to this, but I went back through, you know, I think I got about eight months into the year of looking at things.

Yeah. You mean you only got eight months? Well, I got a lot of videos, a bit of more than I could show. I was going to do the rest this morning. Anyway, listen, just easy. There was this one topic where someone's... It's quite a heavy topic. I'm in the really bright cardigan and someone says in the comments, they go like, yeah, this is really serious but I can't walk past that cardigan.

My God, it's like 15 likes on it. Everyone's like, I know. It's like a really heavy topic, but they're like, the cardigan. It is beautiful. It is beautiful. I actually realized I got a bone to pick with you. A couple of days ago, you sent me... a clip from a podcast to listen to wasn't ours. I was like, how dare you? You're listening to other stuff. I mean, mate, I've been on lots of other podcasts if you get sick of pop culture. I know, mate. Trust me, you're all in my feed.

Can't get on Instagram without seeing you. You're blocking it. It's like, do you want to see more of this? You are all up in my grill everywhere on Instagram. Maybe that explains, yeah, my lack of seeing you where I'm like desperate to see you whereas you feel like you're already getting too much. Getting everything. Yeah, no, but you did listen to that. podcast yeah it was beautiful actually and it's going to be on topic a bit because this whole topic actually is going to be framed around

a podcast link you sent me months ago, which you didn't agree with, you just sent it to me, which is essentially like, you can't influence your kids, they're born with, what was it, 4,000 personality traits? Yep. And I'm like, I'm going to prove that guy wrong this episode. But...

Can we just quickly shout out who that podcast was? The person. Oh, the good one. Elaine. Yeah. Elaine de Botton. I like Elaine de Botton, School of Life. I think I could listen to that man talk. Yeah, really? Top three? His voice. His articulation. He is beautiful. But yeah, would he be top three for you? Top three what? Like, I don't know, experts that do me. Yeah, well, I don't, to be honest, I don't know, like.

I know you really well. I was going to say, who's number three? I love Tina. I looked at Tina. Oh, Tina. Tina Payne, who you had on. I could just listen to Lane talk about, he's kind of like a bit of a philosopher sort of stuff, so I could listen to that. I mean, I'm not into that sort of thing. Am I? I don't know, but I just like listening to him. Yeah, I think you're a really active learner.

I'm trying to be. I wish I'd done a little bit more in school. I found the capacity light in a lot of feeling, but here I am. Yeah. Bang, learning a language. Yeah. Yeah, so very quickly, I just wanted to give... I'll try and do this quickly. I need to give a bunch of shout-outs and reflections. I'm going to try and do a frame around it. The two weeks before the last episode were probably the hardest in the four years, possibly the hardest in my...

very short 41 years on the planet. A lot of like pain, hardship, like you supported me through it, Annalise supported me through it, some pretty awful stuff that went down. And then the last two weeks have been this like period of healing, which has been actual physical healing. So I had surgery and classic analysis. What? Oh, yeah. Sorry, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so yeah, yeah. Another century. I'm at my limit of stuff that's going on for you. It's not hard. It's worthwhile. God, man.

And I couldn't support you more. If you could go back in time about the question of the podcast, would you still say yes? No, I'm fine, mate. I'll just go for a walk on my own with the baby. Absolutely not, Billy. This is fun stuff. I'm sure I bring more chaos and drama to your life than everyone else combined. You were there at my toughest point and supported me.

Oh, yeah, nothing compared to what you've done for me. But so anyway, I had this surgery and I'm doing this like high rocks thing in about a week. So I think I'll have done it by the time this. No, I'll be doing it. I have done it between the next episode. And it's like this girl.

thing that you know really people twice my size everyone have their t-shirt off and six packs out and i won't be that person but if anyone's going to melbourne come and say hi but anyway i'm doing that i've been training for three months for it and i had to have this surgery unplanned obviously and the surgeon's like oh, you can't exercise for two weeks. And I came home and said to Annalise, I was like, oh, I can't exercise for two weeks. And she's like, you haven't had a Caesar.

She's like, you'll be fine. What do you got, 15 stitches? There's internal stitches, like there's external stitches. But yeah, and she was right. So I was like two days out, I started again. So I'm going back for a hoony, huh? I've been fed. So yeah, so it's interesting how the world works.

because I've been doing this actual healing. And then I've been having these healing kind of experiences, obviously, like, yeah, nothing makes you want to hug your kids closer, and Annalise, and you. Anyway, speaking of hugs, there's been these beautiful things that have happened in the last two weeks. We had our parenting workshop up in Sydney, which, to be honest, I felt a bit uncomfortable about because I was like, this is a lot of money for people to pay.

It was like seven hours. So I just did it. Amazing team member who actually did all the work was like, I can't believe you did like the whole day without a note, without a slide. Just a little shout out to seeing Billy live. It is unbelievable. You are so good at it. Well, I think the best thing we ever do is...

the podcast and the live show. I think that's the best thing. I just have to be careful. I don't ask too much of you. And you're back doing solo laps in the neighborhood. But anyways, the parenting workshop was really cool. And you know the best thing about the whole parenting workshop was actually Charlotte Keating. Charlotte Keating came.

which is phenomenal. She's Clint Syke that I've known for a while and who is going to do more and more stuff with us. And she was really good. And then, you know, the whole, the highlight for me was... This hug that I got off a mum at the end of the day who's gone through absolute tragedy... lost a partner is losing a child like just worse stuff you can imagine and she just gave me this like really amazing hug and that was like the highlight for me

It's up in Sydney as well. Another interesting thing that happened, I was on Sunrise. And so Sunrise and like Nova and all this stuff, we have like, this podcast succeeds because of like dozens and dozens of people and we'll talk about a few more of them. But the Sunrise guys are just like, when do you want to come on? That's how amazing they are. They're just like, yep, that day, that time, great, because we were up there.

And I'm waiting in the wings and it's so dynamic. You've probably seen this, but the world probably hasn't. There's people just waiting in the wings and these guys are just like, I don't know how they do it. And I do this stuff quite comfortably, but they're just story, story, story, story. Yeah. And just changing pace the whole time.

And speaking of changing pace, like my section, so the host comes over because there's a break and she's like phenomenal, this mum called Mon. She's like, Billy, your stuff's amazing. Thank you so much for what you're doing in the world. All these nice compliments and stuff. And she's like, you've really helped me with my six kids. I was like, wow.

And I kind of did say, well, I felt a bit bad. And then I'm on the couch with them and it was really funny because we talked about stuff and I was getting pretty soapboxy as well, which I love. And then at the end they go, and now for something completely different. Sexy concretes. And I was like, that hurts. So, anyway, I... Right, yeah.

I looked at it on, I was like, they tagged me on socials and collabed with us. And I was like, oh, that's cool. And what are people thinking about it? And it was like nice comments. And I was like, oh, there's about 150 comments on Facebook. I never go on Facebook. Go on to Facebook. I'm just getting slaughtered. It's like, this guy doesn't know what he's talking about. Look how weird his eye is. Like all this stuff, like just cutting me down. This comment though, I was like...

I was actually a little bit proud of myself because I was like, for the first time probably ever I wasn't taking it personally. I was just like, oh, that kind of sucks. But in my mind, for being 100% honest, my coping mechanism was like, oh, it's tough for those guys. That's how I was handling it.

I didn't see there's a reply to one of the comments that's cutting me down. And it's this person who's like, oh, because they're like, this guy has no expertise. I don't know what you're talking about. This person's like, well, actually he does. And they're like something like. I know because of what I know of Billy, I know he would take this so personally and deeply, but I also know he'd still help everyone in his comments that are slamming him. And it's really interesting because...

That commenter actually gave that to me like I wouldn't have until that person actually showed me the path. They did this beautiful thing of like validating my experience. Never met them. They validated my experience. called out and said he actually does have expertise in this space and then gave me how to handle it, how to frame it. And in my mind, because of that single comment, I was able to be like, that is the right thing. The right thing is to be the person that would still help them.

And they changed my perspective in that just by typing that comment out. Wow. So it's this really beautiful thing that happened, this healing like fortnight I've had. And then we did our Impact Series, which was amazing. We went out to, like, a community. We had so many apply. How was it? Phenomenal. Phenomenal. Rebecca Harris came with me. She's such a jerk. Absolute jerk.

Wonderful. Like, one of the best bits about that whole session was watching her present, same as Charlotte in Sydney. And, you know, Vex is such a good human. and an amazing clinician, and she spent 19 years in schools. And it was this community that really is under-resourced and under-supported by services.

We went out there and do you know the best thing about that whole thing? And this is where I was proud of myself. We hang back and talk. The best bit about it is the question time and then the hanging back and talking. And this phenomenal community, but I caught this mum during the talk who like came in a bit late, could tell she was really awkward. She was sitting right at the back, like hoodie over her head, like, you know.

And then people were wanting to talk to me at the end and after like 45 minutes or something, I could see this person go to leave and she was really awkward and she went to leave and I just said to the people I was talking to, hey, sorry, I've got to go. talk to this mum because I've had it happen before where someone's hung and left and I never met them again. I'm just like, I missed that opportunity to meet someone and I could just sense the vulnerability in her and it was right because...

You know, she's fled domestic violence. She's like, you know, just awful trauma. She grew up with trauma. And I got to just hold space with her and like talk to her about her kids and how to help them and support them and offer some practical stuff. And that was the best thing about the Impact Series.

Now, the cool thing about the Impact Series, and this is the end of this long-winded thing, is that we're now getting interest in, like, corporations doing more support for us. This podcast only exists because of the phenomenal AV1, All Things All Colours, Ivy Street.

Pro bono work. They just support us for free. I struggle with like all of my time is free. And so I struggle with resourcing this. Like we get hundreds of messages a day. I read everything about parenting, but the amazing team covers all the other stuff. I can't see individual kids. We can't have other guests on the podcast. That would help me if people realised that those aren't options, unfortunately.

People like Mattel sponsoring the podcast mean that we can really resource things like the Impact Series. And it's amazing. You talked before we came on about playing Uno last night. You genuinely said that.

And Mattel genuinely care. Like I've met with that team now. They genuinely care about how they better support kids. Like this really powerful meeting that I had with them where they were getting a bit emotional about like the pod and the partnership and like whether it's YMCA. I was in Canberra this week.

for 24 hours. Like things are getting worse in our community, increasing family violence. More kids are starting school with developmental risk. We've never seen it this bad. You know, there is less kids are being read to in homes. One in six kids in this country lives in poverty. It is wild and there's so much we can do about it. And I feel a bit hopeless when I read those reports. I helped ERAC and UNICEF and Mindaroo with getting that.

more well-known. You can see on the socials me talking about it. We'll do more in that space. But I also have hope. I met with the amazing pediatricians out there. I got to meet with Fiona Stanley, who's like this just phenomenal powerhouse that the Children's Hospital in Western Australia is named after. She's just amazing. Wow. I've been going out to like the, you know.

worst supported communities in Indigenous remote Australia for decades and decades. And it was very funny because I was like, I went up to her and she's like, so what do you do, Billy? And I was like... I'm a developmental Pete at this hospital and been there for a long time. Love seeing families and training up the future clinicians, but bureaucracy drives me crazy. So I've got this social enterprise and podcast and book and all this stuff.

I was like, the whole idea is putting the actual evidence into the media. And she's like, she's a hugely warm person. She's like famous for how warm she is. But she just like taps me on the shoulder and she's like, wow, what a revolutionary idea. She's like been trying to do it for decades. But you know what gives me hope? And I genuinely mean this. I have a secret ingredient. What? You.

Oh, you. But you won't like hearing that. But the last episode, having you read out about the eight-year-old girl who's carrying a garbage bag to a home she's never been into and told this is where you're sleeping tonight and putting pajamas on. Your comment was, I didn't know that was happening. And I need everyone to know that's happening. And what this episode is going to be about is about how we can do that. So it's a very long-winded lead into like...

what my last two weeks have been. I'm averaging probably up 50% of the time I'm present at bedtime at the moment. Annalise is so amazing. Someone came up the other day actually and was like, thank you, Billy. The podcast is amazing. And then looks at Annalise and the guy gave her this like, and thank you. I was like, that's actually the right balance. She just finds out two days before that, you know, yep.

you're going to be doing everything on your own for the next 48 hours because I've got to run. And it's just, yeah, she's phenomenal. So it was really cool. And yeah, it was really great just to meet the phenomenal teams that are AC and UNICEF. Like they're just so dynamic and such amazing people doing stuff.

We're growing out, is what we're saying. We need people. We need more people to come on board. We need more people to sponsor the pod. We need more companies to come in. We will deliver high-impact stuff, and you will help us resource the community. It'll be actual, evidence-based, clinically-informed advice.

Just to explain the impact series, I think we should keep going over what it is. Can you just, I'll let you do it. Yeah, so the impact series is based on like what we do in clinic and my PhD about how do we build the capacity of educators and parents to best support their kids and caregivers. And what we do is we look across measures of access to support and services.

and communities that traditionally haven't been supported and have a lot of difficulty accessing help, we go into them. We go into them and hear what do you need us to do, what do you want us to talk about, what knowledge do you want us to bring. And then we have these really meaningful, deep conversations and we're going to build it out. And if you reach out now, because we've got a lot of people reaching out, we're streamlining everything.

we can show you the ways to access resources, whether it's the Impact Series that happens for free because corporates support it, Hawthorne Footy Club, for example, whether it's us doing stuff with your school and you don't qualify for that, or your kindergarten. your childcare, please reach out because I'm going to spend next year...

trying to drive this so that it really starts firing. And largely it is we really do rely on the support of organisations that can afford to have you to come and do a talk to help fund the impact in those.

underfunded communities or under supported communities that's a really definitely but we want to also i'm always happy to do that but we want to build out stuff that is is way more meaningful than that we're looking at platforms we're looking at like some really exciting stuff also very quick shout out

two more lighthearted ones. Any budding actors, don't give away the reason. I think you probably know about it if you think. We're going to, any budding actors reach out, especially if you're in capital cities next year. Across Australia. Across Australia. And then I was thinking we're going to be in a studio next year because I won't be living in this house. If anyone is happy to support us and we'll obviously pay for it with some hair and makeup.

I just thought wouldn't that be cool my daughter does makeup So I've made the mistake of having it done when I do live TV in studio, and God, it looks so much better. It's the reason I'll never fly business class because I can never go back. But anyway, that's a very long-winded shout-out about everything, but it's really important in the final topic of the year.

Winslows and Gooseworlds. Quick ones? Yeah. Okay. Quick? Yeah. I've got a quick Winslow. You sort of revealed a little bit. Really quick. Okay, Winslow. I don't object to fun. I love fun. In fact, I'm the grand funk master of fun. You touched on it earlier, but... I've had the best Fortnite playing Uno. You genuinely mean this. I genuinely mean this. And we're really lucky. You've met with Mattel. I haven't met them. They've been great supporters.

I did say, oh, is there any sort of toys? And you gave me a couple of toys. You gave me a deck of cards, of Uno cards, and I'll be honest, got into some of the other things. They sat in the box. My kid came out one day and she's like, what's this? And I'm like, oh, that's my childhood in your hand there, especially during summer. And so I was like sitting there going, I've got a five and seven-year-old, one in kindergarten, one in grade one. I was like, am I going to be able to teach them this?

Slowly, slowly, slowly taught them. So slowly, like it's obviously quite, it's not easy to understand, but they're only young. Slowly taught them and didn't play a lot of the quick sort of stuff you play when you can play, you know, quite competitive. And I've built them up over two weeks.

They're little competitive monsters now. They can do all the quick play. They know when to jump in and when not. And we've been playing it. We do it like, there's got to be 120 cards in the deck, I reckon. We do like, before bed, we play down the whole deck. So the quick hands, you go, we'll play the whole stack.

So you play it all down and it's been, I just love it. Honestly, I love it. And teaching Ronnie numbers on the way through, identifying the number. What number is it? What number is it? What number is it? Two. Yeah, I get two. Great. She's getting into school next year. So I just loved it. Honestly, I've genuinely loved it, not just because we've got Mattel, who are absolutely a partner, but...

It's been awesome. And playing with the grandparents, so three gens playing it. Yeah, it's amazing, isn't it? It's the best game, like probably a bit young maybe for Evie yet, I would have thought maybe. Yeah, yeah. But you can do it for fun and it's just...

But it is interesting because Mattel are all about building confidence and resilience and you're actually doing that. Confidence of succeeding and making an effort and all that stuff. I can pick this up. I can learn the numbers. I can learn how to play it. And the resilience of like, I didn't win this time.

Yeah, it's the best. And like you draw forward me, you know, you skipped me. Do you know they build those decks so that with colorblind people? I know because I've got the shapes on them now. Mate, I'm all over it. It's amazing. Oh, yeah. Just wanted to say that. I've loved it. It's just like playing with your kids. We always say it can be hard to play with your kids and that's a good way to talk and play. It's not the observe and narrate.

But it is a bit. It's like, oh, what are you going to do here? Yeah. And then I jump in and help the other kid at the end. It's so – yeah, mate. It's a ripping game. really probably inexpensive like he gave us a deck. It's like probably a good Christmas one. And for me, it's summer. Like that's going to be, we play, I'm not kidding you, before school, after school, before bed, and you can all sit around. It's quite nice. Yeah. Anyway.

And it's not, it sounds like it, but that's not, Mattel didn't know. No, no, I didn't do anything. No cash for comments. No cash for comments. Anyways, go to Mattel.com forward slash. If you really want to be the best parent you can, it's a Range Rover. You can't go past four-wheel drive. So that's forward slash pop culture parenting for your 10% discount. All of a sudden I'm not wearing T-shirts with rips in them. What's changed about the pod?

But yeah, okay, my Winslow, very quickly, it's kind of a Griswold, but I think I want to always make sure that I'm being honest about how I actually parent. I've been trying to do a lot of pro-social work with Evie and Charlie and always like...

not telling her to stop doing something, asking her to start doing something. And I've been talking about that a little bit lately. But we go out and race cars like on the streets because she's like, you know, if someone's come and then they're going, she's like, I want to race them. And so she'll race the car.

And for the first time ever without any prompting, Charlie runs as well. She let Charlie win and like made an effort and was like, oh, you're so fast, Charlie, and all this stuff. I did nothing. I was just watching it. And I was like, well. I guess who's getting treats? I was so proud that I was like, reinforce, reinforce, reinforce. And we talk a lot about how building the intrinsic motivation in kids, but this was an example where I was just like, no.

I'm going to catch up. Can I say I noticed it as well? So you weren't there before when you were getting ready. They were drumming on cardboard boxes. And I was like, oh. They were drumming the cardboard box. I said.

Might get you a drum for Christmas. Dad will love that. Yeah, yeah. She goes, oh, yeah. And then Charlie started hitting it. She goes, Charlie's really good at drumming too. And I was like, bah. Yeah, just guiding her. I was like, what? And then making her feel good about it. But I've been doing it so much. That's been a short time.

as well totally totally and it's really interesting because even Annalise had a go at me the other day because they were playing together doing some like fun activity I was like you guys are playing so well together

I think this is going to be extra treats. And Annalise is like, Billy, this is the prize. This is what I've been giving them because they did really well today. And she's like, I've been watching that treat jar of mini M&Ms just go down so quickly. She's like, he's up on the treats.

So it was very funny. But now, Grizzly, have you got a good Grizzly? No, I don't. Annalise's got one that'll make up for it. So I literally asked her if, no, she told me. She actually gave me permission. She told me to do it. Hey. Don't let your mother smell that beer in your breath. She'll take it out on me. You haven't heard this story. There's been a couple that haven't been on the pod where you're just like, oh my God, that is wild. Like just showing Annalise's capacity of like...

Anyway, but, yeah, the other day, Evie was having a bit of a hard time at daycare, at kinder, and got asked who picked up early, and Annalise rolled in and broke her day a bit, because she had Heidi, who, for people who can't remember, is four months old. Charlie has two.

She rolls there, it's a pretty hot day. She goes and gets kids, like jumps in the car and like we've got just, this is classic parenting, we've just got to the point now where Evie like just gets in the chair and sits there and puts her arms through after like a very long window of like...

no, fighting it, jumping around in the car, all that stuff. But Charlie's doing it now. So Charlie's now in the window of like reluctance and all this stuff, jumping in the front seat, all that stuff. I think medically it's contagious. Yeah. So Annalise clicks them all in. And then realises, closes the car door, Charlie's hit the lock button internally and the keys are in there. And she's sitting out front, hot day in Melbourne.

When Evie realises and starts getting really upset and Annalise is like... Did she unclick herself? No. Annalise is like talking her through the window saying, press really hard, press really hard, couldn't unclick herself, just melting down. So four-month-old in the car, two-year-old in the car, four-year-old in the car, really hot. Evie's already saying it's really hot and getting stressed. And Annalise quickly runs into the childcare and is like, I don't know what to do.

help and then amazing kinder educators were like called triple o police fire brigade and ambulance all came like all of them analysis like they were phenomenal They just used this tool, expanded the door, put a wire in, hit the button that Charlie had pressed down and got all the kids out. But she was like, yeah, just, you know, that. absolute panic. Oh, I know, yeah. I know someone else has done as well, yeah. Yeah, that can happen. Yeah, I remember my mum did it in our car.

couldn't idle it always like it was so bad and old that it was yeah it was idled and my mom did it at like the two minute drop off at the airport like we all got out and said goodbye to someone and the car was running with the keys locked in. So it started like smoking and like the car was like... So yeah, it was amazing. Just how supportive all the services were.

So shout out to all of the emergency services. Goodness gracious. Because I think they all came because it was like four-month-old, locked in a car on a hot day. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So they just came ready to smash windows, but they were able to get into that. So anyway, let's go to movie quickly.

Yeah, quickly. Love Actually. Yeah. My suggestion. I really suggest a movie. Yes, yes. Actually, yes, of course. Yeah, yeah, of course. Because I actually had a movie and 11th Hour, I realized there was no scene in it. And so...

because we always do a Christmas movie, but this one actually fits beautifully into what we're going to talk about. But I really like this movie. I know it's copped some hate. It's copped a bit of hate recently, yeah. Yeah. I get it, but I just try to enjoy it. Yeah, which I think is a great attitude. But yeah, any...

Can you, what was your favourite storyline? So there's eight storylines. I really like Hugh Grant, his one. I really like... I think he picked up Prime Minister really quickly and he was quite funny and I love the dancing scene where he's dancing to, is it Donna Summer? Yeah, yeah. I love that. Yeah. Yeah. I love that one. Yes. Yeah. What about you?

I reckon the most real one is the woman whose brother's mentally unwell. Like I think, and that's actually really beautifully acted as well. And just the tragedy of like, so what the movie is actually about is like all these different versions of love, obviously. We're going to talk about.

different versions of connection and the positive and negatives in kids' lives. But it's this beautiful depiction of, like, how interconnected everyone is. But I think the Emma Thompson scene blows me away. I almost chose it, but it just doesn't... It's not good. It's mainly visual.

But she's just, she's so phenomenal. I don't know if you know the story. So Emma Thompson and Liam Neeson for this movie drew on real lived experience. So Emma Thompson's husband cheated on her with another actress who you know. Helen, who's out of Fight Club and Johnny Depp movies. Ah, Helen Bowen Carter? Yeah, yeah. So she's, like, drawing on this real experience in that scene. And then Liam Neeson actually...

The wife died in a skiing accident and they had a couple of kids and Liam Neeson donated her organs from that. But he has had... this tragedy as well of a loss of a loved one and then that's obviously what happens in the movie with him so i think that um

Those are kind of my favourite storylines. But interestingly, I don't know if you know this, Bill Nye, Bill Nye's character. Could be also equally as good, sorry. Yeah, great. He's actually almost an interpretation of Richard Curtis who wrote the movie about what he's actually...

done. So Richard Curtis wrote Four Weddings and a Funeral, hugely successful movie. And then he takes another ensemble and just wraps it up in a Christmas theme. And it's kind of what the song is. The song's this like classic song. love is all around us, you know, and then he just puts Christmas in a way and it's kind of like this idea about the, you know, forcing commercial success on something. It's such a British thing to do.

To be self-aware to take the mick out of yourself. I'm assuming this guy's British. Exactly, yeah. And Bill Nye is just amazing and has all these depictions. And then, yeah, the only, I reckon the worst of the bits in it for me... Rick Grimes, the guy at The Walking Dead. I always forget his actual name. But the guy who like falls in love with his best mate's wife and then proposes to her and just how like on the nose that is any way you interpret it. Yeah.

So I'm always saying it would have been better because they kind of put a red herring that he's gay. Like he gets asked how long you've been in love with him and how much that would have been better about like at the door he answers and he's like, I'm in love with you, but I'll... Yep. You know, I've moved on. Yep. But yeah, but it has some of the cheesiest moments in the movie. Kind of like that they do close it off though and they move on.

Yeah, totally. It doesn't feel like it's going to recur. Because he says that's enough now. He should have said that like years before then. You know, yeah, that's... Yeah, there's just this. There's so many, like it becomes really cheesy. A bit of Dido there as well. I love that scene. I do love it. I don't think hard on... Dido's, yeah, when he finally... Yeah, he does the walk. Yeah. I kind of like it. It's dramatic. It's dramatic.

Maybe we should do turtlenecks next step. Can we get a brand of one? I would look good in a turtleneck. No, Camo Green. Camo Green, yeah. A Shade of Green. Great film. Loved it. Still love it. Yeah, and I love it too. And there is this kind of beautiful, I don't know if you remember the start, how he talks about love is all around us, and he talks about it, I don't think, when anyone in the planet.

planes were crashing on September 11, anyone sent messages of hate or revenge. It was love and like seeing love in airports and love and all that stuff. And I think what I want to talk about is like today is...

fairly complex, but I've asked you to think about some of the things over the last year that you think were helpful. And I'm going to ask listeners to send in stuff, but I want to talk about a guy also with a cool name. And there will be researchers and clinicians out there that know this, but I think it's a good one to share. And he's a Russian psychologist who moved to America called Yuri Bronfrenbrenner.

You were a bronze friend burner. Yes, perfect. It's a tough one, so well done. He was born in 1917 in the Russian Revolution. His uncle died of starvation, and so his parents moved to America. Yep. So think about that tragedy in adversity. Yeah, just one comment. Obviously, one thing that seems really common with a lot of these doctors is...

I'm not even joking, like phenomenal names and all that. Eric Erickson, you've always had great names. Like you've just had phenomenal names, every doctor you've mentioned. But also it feels like a lot of them come out of like Central Europe. backgrounds is that like yeah definitely some of the best research has come out of like those orphanages and then yeah there is this interesting thing that happens from tragedy and adversity and things like that and a lot of people work in this space

have their own stories of childhood. Even the clip that you shared, I don't know if you remember the bit after it, which was talking about how like, you know, often people who like comedians or people who go in the public eye and seeking affirmation, which I know that I do. I know that I'm seeking affirmation.

acceptance and affirmation from external sources I don't really know but it's because of my childhood like you know I remember my therapist I was talking to my therapist after the last session because I had a really tough fortnight And I was like, I do feel guilty sometimes that I use the podcast to share my own experience, knowing that these beautiful messages will come back and it feels really selfish. And he was like...

Billy, if you're using this tool to get your emotional needs met and it's helping people, you should probably give yourself a bit of a break about doing that. And it was this really interesting thing, but I think it speaks to what you're talking about of like... why do these people that go into these spaces come from these backgrounds? So they've kind of fled Russia, come there. He's then gone into this space phenomenally and built out probably our best evidence. Now, he...

What Yuri did is that he built this understanding. So we used to think, which is the clip you sent me a long time ago, decades and decades ago, we used to think it's all biology. Just how the kid's born is how the kid will end up. But what Yuri showed us actually is that our biology, our genetics, is our potential. Our environment decides whether we reach it or not. Yeah. Does that make sense?

Yeah. So, okay. So you have skill sets like how smart you are and how, you know, your cognitive capacity. Yep, I get it. I'm with you. That was set. Yeah, so yeah, because we're back and forth about this clip. So I agree, yeah. So that was set. Your temperament was set. Temperament is set, yes. Yep, I completely agree. So those are two things that are just...

Before you're born, we can... And temperament's a bit of your sensitivity. Yes. Yeah, it is your sensitivity. It's your sensitivity to the environment and how you express that emotionally. That's what your temperament is. Yep. But everything else...

can be changed the great skills yeah so like a lot of us have come like i'm in that 20 that came up through three or more adverse childhood experiences developmental trauma biggest predictor mental illness I had a lack of protective things in my life and I had risk factors that were present.

Those things weren't set in stone. It didn't have to happen. The lack of things didn't have to happen. But then I also had protective factors. I have protective components in my life, such as you, meeting Annalise, you know, the... Job that I do is a protective factor. It meets my needs. It helps me be financially stable. We're going to talk about all these big concepts. And what Yuri did is he changed, he flipped the switch on that idea and said, actually, there are these dynamic...

contextual forces that act on a child the child is at the center of them but these influences are dynamic they change the whole time and that's where we need to spend our energy and he went to government just like i did earlier this week he went government and started what's he was part of starting what's called the head start program which is one of the best longest running programs in the world so this guy yeah

Started the Head Start Program, I've heard you talk about. Yeah, so yeah, he started it. It's all through America and it's all about how we build parent capacity through the actual evidence. So one of the things he said, which I completely agree, and he said it decades ago, is anyone in this space needs to understand childhood development.

Most people in the space don't understand child development. They're like an influencer or they're making lots of money and all that stuff and they don't actually have a clinical research background. He was saying decades ago you have to. And he was saying, you need to understand the context around the kid, not just the kid in front of you. And I like sit in clinic and I use this in clinic about this is the kid in front of me, but what's his life?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I wanted those five different levels. I'll do them quickly. Do it. So there is the microsystem that the kid lives in. Give me an example. That's for your kids. Physical house. Yeah, that's relationships with you, with their mum.

with their teacher, with their grandparents. Wow, that's micro. Now, you are part of a micro system for my kids more than I am for yours because you're just like really engaged. You get to see them. You're probably third or fourth attachment figure. Yeah, but you're probably third or fourth attachment figure for my kids. Yeah. So that's the microsystem and that's the directly interact and influence. Then there's the mesosystem.

And that's how those forces interact. Educators are part of the microsystem as well. Now, your relationship with your kids directly in that microsystem has a huge impact. The things that we think about, which we've done over the podcast a lot, is co-regulation.

Mental health first aid, how do we support anxiety, parental mental health, all those things. How do we actually build the evidence into the real world of how you interact with your kids? Microsystems are the most impactful. Yeah, it's the most proximal.

it's the most direct and hence therefore the most impactful yeah we'll talk about like levels of impact but yes meso system is the next one and that's how those relationships and worlds interact and the best example of that is your relationship with their teachers gotcha So I'm picturing a web. Yep. If there was 10 things I could change in the world, one of them would be that educators and parents and caregivers are supported in working together.

Because think about it. If you argue with the teacher. I'm telling them one thing, they're telling them another. Yeah, or you've got a bad relationship. You're not looking after my kid enough. I'm sick of you telling my kid off. You're the reason my kid's not doing well. You know, the impact that has on your girls because that teacher's there, seeing you in the relationship with them, it's very likely to influence how they are with your kids. How much effort they make happens to me in clinic.

For parents blowing up at me demanding, happens very rarely, thankfully, because I've specifically done training in how to do that. But if that happens, it's very hard because it influences how I am with the kid. So that influence is from the mesosystem. Then we think about the ecosystem. Sorry, the exosystem. The exosystem is...

the worlds that don't directly influence the kid because they're in them, but have a huge impact. And the best example of that is your workplace. You're in a healthy workplace as their parent that supports you. You get good leave, they flex, they're nice, you're not really stressed, you like what you're doing. Teacher is part of a good school. Yeah, but the kid directly is in that world, whereas the kid's not directly in your workplace. But if you come home and you're stressed...

If you're getting bullied at work, if you're having to work long hours, that influences the kid because you come home with less capacity. And then we think about the macro system, which is the culture that's around us. Now, the podcast is trying to influence that.

cultural beliefs, media, how we think about boys, how we think about juvenile detention, all of those things. And what we found from the report was part of presenting in camera, like a part of trying to amplify it, is it's getting worse.

Juvenile attention is a perfect example of the macro system impacting individual kids because it's saying, ignore the evidence, increase consequences, increase punishments. Knowing they'll just re-offend, it'll be worse for them to increase their mental illness and make our community less safe. But politicians are just listening to a horde that's saying, you know, we want these kids to have consequences.

We're trying as a podcast to create a healthy environment and community that shares that science in the macro system, in that space. We also, in different levels, come back down to the others. The fifth level is the chrono system. And that's how things change over time. Things change over time for the kid, things change over time for the family, things change over time for workplaces and things change over time culturally. Think about women's rights.

It's one of those things that drives me crazy. I keep getting asked in the media about back in the olden days, it was so good and kids weren't soft because they didn't get everything they wanted. I'm like, we know better now. We don't drive a horse and carts around. because we have a better understanding, we've advanced technologically, we've advanced in our understanding of science, and all of the evidence shows, even in parenting style, where the evidence is across cultures.

about you have high demand by being warm first. Okay. permissive passiveness so what I think is really helpful to think about with these kids whether it's a fat kid in your home that you're supporting or it's a kid I meet in clinic is what is the world around this kid on those layers because it's not just

the kid, and the kids impact those worlds. A lot of these kids are hard to parent, so they make you look like a worse parent. A lot of these kids are hard to teach. They increase your stress at work. They increase your ability. They decrease your ability to have a positive relationship with their parents.

Because they're really tough and they strain your resources. They make you afraid because of how violent they are. Like the macro system has to take some responsibility. I see educators all the time that are leaving the profession because they're like, I'm at risk of being harmed here physically and mentally.

I can get paid as much to hold a stop sign. And I'm not saying pay the person holding a stop sign less, but realise that teachers need to be paid more. It's a really simple, and it's not a lack, we don't lack the money. The money's all there.

It's just we need to understand where our values sit and say educators are the most important professionals, let's pay them more and support them more because they're leaving the profession in droves. So what we're trying to do is think about the kid that's sitting in front of me. Now I'll give you an example.

Yesterday, I had a mum who came in who I know pretty well. I've seen her a few times. She's got a black eye. She walks into my waiting room with a black eye. I said, how are you going? She said, I'm surviving. The eight-year-old boy is sitting next to her. Lots of behavioural difficulties. Now, one lens would be to say, what's wrong with this kid? But mum's just fled domestic violence. And do you know why the violence erupted?

Because the kid was taking food. There wasn't enough food in the house. Mum allocates it every payday. He wasn't getting enough food. And so the stepdad took offence to that and mum protected the kid from him. So that's not the kid, is it? There's not something wrong with the kid. And that's the influence that's happening on that kid. And then if we don't do something about it, that kid then rolls around in the community and he'll get kicked out of school.

And he'll want connection with peers so he'll become antisocial. And his self-esteem will plummet and he'll think he's a bad kid. He already kind of does. But it's not the kid, is it? It's the world he's growing up in. It's the poverty that exists in that family. It's the lack of mental health in mum. It's the lack of mental health in that stepdad. And I don't know the stepdad, but I know mum grew up in poverty, in violence.

You know, this is what, if we want to change the world, this is the most important bit of it. What Yuri taught us is it's not the kid. What are the teachers like? What's the parents' life like? What's the community like? And what's the culture like that's around kids and values them and understands that they have needs that are not being met? And that is why we're going wrong. This seems pretty insurmountable, if I'm honest.

It's not. There's programs that have veterans that change this stuff. Young mum, access to resources, provide education. I shouldn't say it is insomount, but it's overwhelming. I didn't know all this. I hadn't thought about all this. So you don't know it exists, but you actually influence it. You influence it across different levels of that. You influence it on the micro-system level with the kids on your street.

Yeah, I didn't understand the system. Like I understand what you're saying now. But it's not insurmountable because you do on multiple levels. I probably do it on one or maybe two. How do you make, okay, what can I do? You're doing it.

You're sitting here every fortnight trying to learn about it. That's the macro system. What can someone else do? They can exist in the micro system. They can think about all the kids that are around them. How do I? So you know what Yuri said? Self-awareness that they can actually impact this a lot. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And there's this beautiful quote that Yuri has of like, I'll see if I can remember it. Every child needs one adult that is irrationally crazy about them.

But you do that. You do that for my two kids. Like, you're still connecting with Heidi. She's four months. You're irrationally crazy about them. You're irrationally crazy about your two girls. And I'd probably, at a complete guess, I reckon there's probably a dozen other kids that you'll like that about. Yep. whether it's your brothers and sisters kids whether it's the people on the street people that go to the school with you so you are you're like i do it in clinic i you know i had a

20-year-old yesterday that I saw who's come back and seen me, like, horrible domestic violence. He's still having to live in that home economically. His dad's still threatening him, trying to get him out of there, like, and doing all this work. And I'm not going to see him again. Because I'm leaving. And we had this emotional, like, in the corridor of the hospital goodbye where he was just saying thank you and being, like, so thankful and getting upset. And I was like...

Mate, you don't have to say thank you. I've been paid to do this, but you've also helped me understand how I can help all the other kids that are younger than you going through the same thing. Because he's shared his story with me. He's articulated what he needed and what he didn't get.

You know, he's been open and vulnerable about it. And I said that to him and we both got a bit like emotional about it because I'm like, I can learn from him. Like in the macro system, we do this. We amplify these stories and share them. We're always respectful. We always keep them anonymous. But the world needs to understand what's happening because this is the final time I'll be really deep and scary about it. Intimate partner violence rates are not falling. Between us, we have four girls.

A 25% chance in Australia, 30% chance internationally, and that's underreported. These are little boys that are coming up now. that are just not getting taught pro-social skills. And the idea of what Yuri talks about, and there's also stuff since then called dynamic system theory, that talks about these are hugely interactive and complex systems, but we can have a huge influence on them when we understand.

school communities thinking these are not bad parents these are parents that don't have the resources they're struggling with mental illness and that school we went out to for the impact series they were amazing They saw me talk to that mum and the leadership came to me afterwards and they were like, that was the one person we wanted to come. That was the one person we wanted you to talk to. That was worth it. Like a two-hour drive, you know, one way.

Talked Rebecca Harris' ear off the hallway and back. But, you know, like, this is changeable. We just need to realize, like, how do we care about this? And we need to, like, tell your story. We need to understand, like, you're amazing because you have capacity. You have capacity to do this on that level and also just the relationship you have with your girls' teachers, the relationships you have with...

their mom the relationships you have with the other adults in their world how do you support them how do you support the parents of their friends like you do that and that has a huge flow on effect of your kids and all the kids that are coming up around them

Now, I did ask you as a favour, the homework, I didn't just make you pick the movie, about like, is there anything that you feel like that has been really helpful over the last 12 months? Lots. From the pod. Lots. Well, actually. Hasn't been your best 12. I like this year. This is a collective thing, Dr Nick. It has not been the best 12. It has not been our best 12. No, I...

I thought first I didn't go back to it. So people don't know but we take show notes for every episode to see the highlights you see on social. So I know that. So I didn't go back and do that. I actually went back through like I went through. So what are we in the 10th month or ninth month of the year? It went all the way back to, it was eight months because we start again in Feb. We're in the 11th just in case that's scary. The 11th. Don't, don't. It's Christmas next week.

There were certain things that obviously there's a bit of – lots of stuff. But on this particular topic and about given you can really influence an individual kid and I like the idea of like – was it rationally crazy? Yeah. I think in that one alone is a really good, I think about defaults on things and I think about just being able to get the get rights, like just the basics. And that's kind of what I focused on. So I love the things that are like. You're irrationally crazy. I'm like, great.

And I know there's a few kids around me that I am like that about. I just think they're just fantastic and I hope that they think they're also fantastic. But so those are the sorts of things. I think if I'm a parent, I just need that grab kit. So I think I go back to like... play and you observe and narrate, I'm like, that stuff's incredibly helpful. So I'm like, I just like, that's my default with most things. I won't go through hope because we've just done it, but it seems.

Basic, and I know we've done, this is our fourth year, like right now. Like we were just almost, you know, all four years completed. I think when I come back to the neurodiversity one, I always go, neurodiverse kids process the world a different way. Yeah. Like they're not different. The way they process is different, which I guess might make them different. But they just process it really differently and will never process it the same way as you and I do. So you've got to remember that.

It's just their processing's different. Yeah, beautiful. Nothing wrong with the kid. Yeah. They just process it differently. Yeah. Which then is why they struggle because we deliver and do things in a certain way that is quite rigorous. So I think about that one a lot. And because I've got kids close to me, family and friends that have...

kids with neurodiversity and I'm like that kid's just processing it differently. And I try to find ways when I'm around them really quickly to like, yeah, just not around them enough because of... capacity and all the rest of it but just to be like are they just processing it differently but like jump on things they're doing really well to let them know they're doing really well yeah it's beautiful and i even i felt really embarrassed about this but this week in clinic one of my fellows was like

Can you please come to the room? And there was an autistic boy who was like behind a chair just kicking the wall. And I came in the room and he was running over to mum who was sitting on the ground and punching her in the face. And he's really distressed. And the fellow is like trying to get through the appointment.

And I was just like connected with the kid. I was like, should we go outside? And he's just like suddenly realised because he didn't want to be in the room anymore. He'd been in there for ages. And I was like, all right, you're going to choose whether we go down the lift or whether we go down the stairs. Joe's lift, you're going to be the one that presses the button. All right, should I press what level? This is on my next one.

So yeah, so we went down and then, you know, it's actually really embarrassing because that fellow has been part of our program for nine months, nearly, they start in Feb, so 10 months. She was like, I didn't know you could do that. And I was like...

god that's bad on me that i hadn't i do that all the time i pull kids out of the room i'm just like i'm going to follow your lead i'm going to be sensitive to the way you're processing the world and realize this is overstimulating and stressing you out i'm going to give you autonomy and we're going to lead down and then i was able to talk to mum

Downstairs. And so you've never coined this, and I don't think this is technically accurate, but play is an antidote to PDA. Yeah, it is a component of it. That's beautiful, yeah. Yeah, I was speaking about yesterday. Antidote's not, I know, I made that up. It's not the right word because that means there's a problem. No, it's the antidote to opposition and friction and battling. And you did that with the lift stuff, like, oh, stairs or lift, mate.

Yeah. And they go, oh, I've got a choice, get a play. I think that that was important. I was just going over the PDA stuff. Yeah. Because I sometimes just resolve in conflict with kids. So I thought that that, we'll call it PDA, maybe it's not PDA, but as a way to resolve conflict with kids is like play. My new play like that, like this can sound like you're struggling yesterday, but you're like, oh, do you want to take the lift or stairs? They give them the choice and it's been a play.

Yeah, the other thing I was doing is I was connecting with him on the distress he had in the room and trying to acknowledge it, validate it and find a solution to it, which was leave the room. And yeah, it's interesting. We were speaking yesterday at the start of our clinic with three fellows and we have a behavior clinic. which is my favorite clinic and two of my favorite consultants and I are the consultants there.

And we were talking about this and how a better term, in case anyone hasn't heard this in the previous episode, is persistent demand for autonomy instead of pathological demand of audience because it makes it sound so scary. And I don't use it diagnostically. I use it as a way to understand what is going on.

this kid and how we help them. And there's a deeper need that's in them, but play is definitely one strategy that can be helpful. Can I just give you a couple more quick ones? I'll be quick on these ones. A couple of general ones you said. I didn't know where they fit into the year, but I recalled. You can't learn to swim while you're drowning.

Someone gave that to us, I think. Yeah, I said it on Pass the Ox. If you're ever going to go listen to another podcast, those boys are amazing. And that's the most of my stories I've ever been on a podcast because people often ask me to come on just as an expert. But with those boys, they want to...

to hear my story and so it was really cool. But yeah, I just said that while I was like rabbiting on about something else. Yeah, I like that one. And that's a bit about just like all these tips that we're giving out. Survival's really hard. Yeah. just surviving is just okay and so having to take on all this can be really difficult for people.

At stages, I think we talked about that in the survival. So it sort of felt like it was in around that time maybe. Yeah, and we often talk about just actual skill development and how we approach it is we are really good at teaching kids how to swim and teach them how to ride a bike by giving them a level of support they need.

succeed and then backing off and watching to make sure they still do it celebrating them and they fall over it's not their fault yeah whereas emotionally and socially we do throw the kids in the deep end a lot yeah or we just put them on the bike at the top of a hill and be like you'll figure it out this will make you a better bike rider or this will make you more

resilience which is one of the most infuriating you know cultural beliefs that's out there yeah and that one kind of goes into a little bit of my next point the general one you gave which was around um i think we get it from parents a lot it's like oh how much do i tell them about my risk taking or things that i did

And it's like how much do they need to know and how much can they handle right now? Yeah, beautiful. So that's how that one played in. I like that one as a general because I think it's really common like. My kids are asking questions and I've seen cousins asking questions of grandma and stuff or other things like, oh, did you do this as a kid? Yeah. Like risk-taking stuff. And I'm like, oh, how do you navigate that? It's like, what do they need to know?

and how much can they actually handle right now. So don't give them something that's too full on. Yeah, it's great. I remember, Evie, one time, you might remember the stories we told on the pod about like we were doing bedtime and she asked about where's my mum. And I was like, oh, okay, it's going to be a big conversation. I got halfway through it. She's like, okay, let's keep reading the book. And just one more. Sorry. I'm not sure if you've never done this format. Okay.

probably more helpful than all the stuff i've been rabbiting on about no no look this is all the stuff that you wrap on about so it is really important i've got more but i want to finish with one tina pain She had zinger after zinger after zinger. But that was the design of the episode. It wasn't a specific topic. She could just talk on everything. She's obviously hugely experienced, incredibly well written.

has her own clinic for what I could understand. Yeah, clinics like runs. Clinics, yeah. She's amazing. She had a couple of zingers like, and you talked about this one as well, like instead of shame, choose curiosity. And that's just a little bit along the lines of be curious, not corrective. And that's the hardest thing in parenting is not to give the kid the answer or tell them what you actually, like, no, you're doing it wrong. And that comes in play and everything.

So like because there's a component if you just do help them, they'll feel that shame and I think that shame is really not dangerous, it's really harmful. Yeah. And so that one and the other one I want to give her is this one. This, I reckon, I'm not there yet. I tried to use it recently. It was really unfair because it was just too much. The big one about when kids stuff up, so the trust bank.

and making withdrawals. You didn't break my trust, you bent it and you've taken a big withdrawal out of my trust bank and you need to make some micro deposits to get back to where you want to be to go to that party. to do that thing by yourself. You haven't broken the bank. You've taken a dint out of it. Let's build you back up but I can't put you back where I thought you were. You're not there.

Yeah. So let's build it up again. I think that one's coming for me. I tried to use it recently on my seven-year-old so unfairly. And she was like, what, bang? Yeah, but it's just, as you already talked about, it's dynamic. Like we watch our kid and, you know, totally. I mean, I could go on about so much, but those are beautiful things to share. Let's do the scene.

Sorry, yeah. So the scene is, yeah. Is that how you wanted that to go? Because I didn't know. It was absolutely perfect. That was like closer to Tina than I've ever been on this podcast of just punchy like. Oh, yeah. But that's something, mate, that's summarizing.

You gave me eight minutes or whatever I spoke for. It's all your work for the year in Zing. Oh, yeah, but I mean you are the superpower of this podcast because you're the translation piece. You're the, like, I sit in clinic all day, every day. talking about this stuff hearing these stories like

trying to help these kids and their families and their educators and, you know, all those systems. I'm really lucky that I get to operate through all those systems, all those layers. Like, it's the difference. Like, I love the book.

Podcast is amazing because I always feel uncomfortable promoting the books. People have to buy it. We're the podcast. We make it freely accessible. Patreon now freely accessible. And the beautiful thing is it's iterative. It's dynamic. I can change it. I can read all the feedback and go, I need to do more on this.

like survival came out the back of a guy coming up to me and being like I love the pod but sometimes it makes me feel like I'm failing because I don't do all the things you recommend so I was like sweet survival's next you know and so I've got all these amazing ideas for topics for next year like I Sometimes I worry I'm repeating myself, but there's so much stuff we haven't touched yet that I'm just like, man, that's so exciting to think about going into that space.

Um, but like, I think you are this phenomenal translator where you sit there and you hold me accountable and say, explain that better. And then you are vulnerable in your own journey. Like I'm. There's not many people out there that have my opportunity to learn about this for nearly 15 years in full-time uni, to work in this space for over 25 years now, and to see these kids every day and the ones that...

people have given up on, there's lost hope and all that stuff. And I don't have that experience because of my training, because of the work I've done professionally, because of all the kids that I've met that have turned. Whereas you don't have that. Most of the world doesn't have that.

So you can be hopeless. It's normal to be hopeless. It's normal to feel lost. It's normal to be like, I don't know what I'm doing. I don't know how to help this. This idea that kids just figure it out on their own is wrong.

And we know that because our adult mental illness rates are so high and so are those of all the kids and they're worsening. But there is so much we can do. And it's like, you know what Tina and I have in common? Not much. I wish I was, she's probably my North Star as well as like a handful of us. I remember someone who is in this space without naming them and shaming them, but is in this space without quolls.

And I remember them saying to me once, every time I do a talk, I make sure at least once I say I don't know the answer to that question because it shows that I'm being vulnerable and all this stuff. And they're like, even if I don't know it. And I remember walking away from that conversation and being like, I couldn't do that.

If I know the answer, I'm going to give it. And, like, if anyone ever has been to any of my Q&As, I've got a very long answer to every single question that comes. And Bettina's like that. And I knew she was so good. I felt so uncomfortable in that one because I was like,

I don't look like a jerk and be like, yeah, I know, to everything she was saying. But then I felt so dishonest when I was like, oh, really? But this is how this works. I couldn't find my space there. That first 10 minutes is so awkward because I didn't know what I was doing. I was just like...

And then I was like, just give them Tina. And I was like, ask about all the big stuff. And I knew she was going to be tight on it. You're as good. We're not comparing, but you're great too. But I just thought, God, I thought she was good. Yeah, I think my difference is that I weave my own story.

Bruce Perry, who wrote The Boy Who Was Raised as a Dog, is a beautiful book that a lot of listeners will know. If you don't check it out, it's phenomenal. He weaved the evidence through kids that he's met. I do that in my book. I also weave my story. Bruce doesn't do that. Dan doesn't do it. Tina weaves her own story like in terms of parenting and stuff but...

I weave my own childhood and like frustration and mental illness and all those things because it's healing for me. I'm not, it's not because I'm this great person. It's because that is healing for me to help me process this and all that stuff. Anyway.

amazing let's do the scene so there's so many scenes i wanted to do and i reckon i looked at five of them before i chose this one this is just a light-hearted one that is a beautiful like example of like how's the kid going yeah and thinking about our own bias of what might be happening, but thinking about what's happening in their broader world, like Yuri would have taught us. So for the people who don't know, just the context, this little kid's mum has died.

Liam Neeson. Yeah, Liam Neeson is their stepdad and he's worried that something's going wrong because the kid's been not coming out of his room. And that's the bit where it's like, is he shooting heroin into his eyeballs? Yeah. Emma Thompson, phenomenal actress, is like, he's 11 and so Liam Neeson's like, maybe not his eyeballs then. Yeah. And he's breaking down. So he's really worried and he has a chance to connect and try and figure out what's going on. Okay.

So, what's the problem with Samuel? Is it just mom or is it something else? Maybe school? Are you being bullied? Or is it something worse? Can you give me any clues? You really want to know. I really want to know. Even though you won't be able to do anything to help. Even if that's the case, yeah. Okay. Well, truth is, actually...

I'm in love. Sorry? I know I should be thinking about mum all the time, and I am. But the truth is I'm in love. And I was before she died. There's nothing I can do about it. young to be loved? No. Oh, okay. I'm a little relieved. Why? Because I... I thought it would be something worse. Worse than the total agony of being in love. No, you're right. Total agony.

I think it's great in a couple of levels that I'm seeing. One is the kid is like, you want to know even if you won't be able to do anything about it. I just wrote it down, that default. Yeah, I want to know even if I can't do anything about it. Yeah.

what a great default yeah it's just but even the kid checking that and it's an interesting thing about like how do we build that in our kids and our other relationships to be like actually it's not about me fixing it it's about me just understanding it and hearing it and like yeah the best thing i'd probably do in clinic is just hold space yeah

Problem shared is a problem hard, isn't it? Yeah, exactly. And I, you know, like I've got lots of, and over time I'm getting better at not just giving the answer of like, cause I have lots of answers and just thinking about, do they want an answer? Is it? what's needed right now ask permission for that like so lots of different things and i just thought it's such a cool scene about like you know

The world that this kid exists in is not defined by that. The movie's beautiful because we see all the protective. Emma Thompson has a protective factor in Hugh Grant as a brother. He has a protective factor of Emma. Liam Neeson's in her world. The woman with the brother who's mentally unwell is really isolated. You know, her workplace is our only protective environment that we see.

You know, what we see in the movie is the dynamic environment and ecology that exists around this single kid that's really protective. Everyone's celebrating, you know, the big family of Hugh Grant's love. There's like all these kids and they're all piling into the police car. And it's just they're all going to celebrate the Christmas play. Like that's the world around these kids and that's what's protective. And we see, we don't see besides the woman with the brother who's mentally unwell.

any harm in their relationships. You know, it's a great movie. Unfortunately, not a great movie for kids at Christmas time. because of nudity that is somewhat unnecessary. Lots of it. And, you know, simulating sex for every scene, pretty much, that Martin Freeman's in. So I remember thinking, this would be a good movie for the kids.

but I almost chose just to close it out on the movie I almost chose the Emma Watson scene sorry the Emma Thompson scene because the Joni Mitchell song I don't know if you know the Joni Mitchell song I've seen both sides now so she wrote

that when she was 21 and it's this phenomenal idea um and concept she brought wrote it off this book about like someone saying seeing both sides of clouds i've seen them underneath now i've been in a plane i've seen them from the top but it's a beautiful tragedy that like everyone said it's just thompson sorry

has just realized that her marriage has fallen apart and she's seen both sides of love. And it's this really wonderful thing. There's a lyric in it. I'll see if I can remember it. It's like what I could have become, but clouds got in the way. That's what this whole topic is about. It's about all the stuff that gets in the way of kids reaching their biological potential.

And so many of those mechanisms can be moved, whether it's how we are with them in the home, how we are with their educators, what our schools look like, thinking about the culture that's around them, systems that actually support families in poverty. Like it's a really cool thing to think about because we're really lucky guiding growing minds is a small part to play across all those systems.

You know, we will hopefully eventually get to the point where we build out a clinical team that not only delivers actual evidence in a community, but also sees the kids that everyone's worried about. Like that's, you know, I see so much potential in this and it's because of the growth and everyone that's come around and supported us.

So please, more people reaching out to share resources and collaborate would be amazing. Now, the last episode of the year is going to be in two weeks. What I want people to send in is like you have. bits that they've found helpful. I want to hear Winslows and Griswolds have already got heaps.

Practical strategies, reflections on what we've spoken about today, advice in that context. Stuff that we haven't done but they've found is really useful as well. Yeah, that would be amazing. Stuff that they've lived by that's helped or guided them would be really cool too. Yeah. Definitely. So...

And then, yeah, we'll do that. And there's also people, I think you'll be able to catch it by the time this comes out. Yes, we're going to do our last Patreon with just you and me for the year. Yeah. It'll be Q&A, send in whatever you want. We'll talk about stuff. It's open, open to everyone. Yeah, just to make that clear, we should make that really clear.

that anybody can join that. Yeah, you have to actually join Patreon, but you don't have to pay money. The people that are helping us resource stuff, thank you. Thank you for those that do pay, but no barriers to the content. Yeah, the people that are paying are helping us do things like the Impact Series and everything else. But yeah, so it'd be... Really cool. I'm looking forward to that Patreon. I'm looking forward to the next Q&A, the next follow-up reflection episode. And, yeah.

So thanks, Dr. Nick. Awesome. Thanks, Dr. Billy. I appreciate that, guys. Just make sure you are following us on all the Instagrams and the socials just so you can answer the polls on the way through as well. So that's popcultureparenting on Instagram and popcultureparenting at gmail to send through your long versions of anything. thing as well. Billy, I can't remember what number episode this is. One, two. One, two?

Yeah, because it was 11 squared, yeah. It was 1, 2, 1. All right, brilliant stuff. Wow, finishing on maths. This is a good episode. All right, thanks, guys. We'll see you next week. judgment.