Episode 113: Gladiator & survival

Today's episode is brought to you by Emerging Minds Families. They're an Aussie organisation creating free practical resources to help parents support their kids' mental health. It's actually available outside of Australia as well, Billy. I'm not sure if you knew that, but it is, which is awesome. Um they've got short videos, fact sheets and podcasts covering everything from anxiety and bullying to navigating separation or just the day to day ups and downs of family life.

Everything they do is backed by research and made with input from parents and professionals, including this guy. Yeah, they're they're wonderful. Uh Guiding Growing Minds and myself have been doing work with the amazing Emerging Minds team, building out resources, especially around emotional development.

Um and they've just been fantastic to work with, so it's great to partner with them on this. Awesome. And the best of all, it's absolutely and completely free via their website. So go check them out at emergingminds.com for uh dot com dot AU forward slash families. And we'll pop a link actually in the Instagram bio as well so you can get to them via there. Thanks, Nick.

Doctor Billy Garvey, we have just knocked episode one one three on the head and it is Gladiator and Survival. What are people gonna learn this week, Billy? Well, yeah, learn some practical, really important things that we can do that actually Doesn't put more pressure on it. Us hopefully takes it off. Um so yeah, and unusual for a part one we have some beautiful things that have come in that um have guided us towards this.

And realise that we are listening to PCP and what they need and we're not trying to make it feel like people are doing worse. Um and then yeah, hopefully um a pretty emotional one, but hopefully um a fun one in some bits as well, discussing Gladiator and Yep.

Certainly a lot of fun along the way, but it's uh it is a very sort of self-compassionate episode and that's what we're trying to do here. Um this isn't um gonna load anyone's plate up with a lot of stuff. This is about being a bit kinder to yourself.

Um is that a fairly Yeah, definitely. And really looking forward to people sending in stuff that'll help us do that better as well for the follow-up reflection on. Absolutely. Thank you, Dr. Billy. Enjoy the episode. I'm Billy. I'm good, Doctor Nick. I'm good. I'm good, thank you. Uh Yep, for uh those in the northern hemisphere it is it was one degree when I was running the dog this morning and it felt like I was on the bike, my ears uh lit up in red. So yeah, it was um

Frosty, frosty start of the day. Yeah, it's pretty brutal. And um and yes, Melfi which yeah, we'll talk about uh my family expanding. But the dog Melfi, the border college, still trumps the most difficult of the family. 'Cause she'cause everything what's the movie with Pacino where it's like the The inches we need are everywhere. Can we do any given Sunday? Yeah, it's amazing, isn't it? I love it all the time. It is great.

Okay. Yeah. And anyway, that's how my day is. It's every inch, every minute is accounted for. But some of the parts are frozen and I have to stop because she's tied to me and she herds the bikes and then lunges at them. So I had to stop because I was like I don't really want to start the day being pulled down to an icy path. So so yeah, it's it's good, mate. It's good to see you though. Busy busy time. Busy time. Um not as not too busy for me, pretty busy for you.

Yeah, well I know what you're talking about, but um back in full swing mode, I had two weeks off for parental leave. Pod kept going. Got uh six talks this week, so and um don't laugh too much, you're in two of them today. We got the podcast. I did a school talk last night, podcast this morning. Got clinic today, the end of clinic speaking to masters students at University of Melbourne, Patreon tonight, uh live radio tomorrow morning and then a podcast.

Tomorrow, uh lunchtime with one of the Hawthorne boys. Yeah. Tom Barris. Tom Harris, yeah. So I'm just thinking ahead to tonight's Patreon and just reading myself. I should be right. I should be right. It's a roller coaster the Patreon. Yeah. For those that aren't a member of Patreon, it's really good. Um, but I come in um and I work the decks. I am the um I'm I'm I do about three jobs and do

Not do them perfectly. And it's um but it's the way we I just love it how we kick it off and Oh yeah, mate, I you often get caught up in the chaos of my my life. And we're just gonna be on topic, which I won't tell you yet, but um

But yeah, shall I just so people overseas listeners won't know the um shout out to Tom who is the Hawthorne player that listens to the pod. Yes. A beautiful story actually. He's had uh some little kids and he's like, Yeah, I was just reading this stuff and it was saying like it really matters how you parent.

So he's like, I better go and find um a place to learn about how to do it properly and came to pop culture parenting. So surely that deserves you changing teams. Yeah, no well Don't put me on the spot for

I really happy Tom's found the podcast. Just I'm not I can't jump ship. Although it's not a bad club to jump to, I've got to say. They they win a flag every four and a half years the for the time I've been alive. Apparently they've won I think they've won like ten flags in the time I've been alive, which is unbelievable. Anyway, anyway. Um ten flags, shouldn't it be every five years then? I'm not fifty. I look it. All right. Any other house housekeeping?

No no, that's it. That's it. That's it. Okay. Griswold Winslow. Yeah, let's go. Let's just see what comes'cause three and a half years I still haven't learned the buttons. Purple. Hey. Don't let your mother smell that beer on your breath, she'll take it out on me. Grizzy? Yeah, I've got a Grizzy. So yeah, I um which is gonna be on topic, like talk about how chaotic things can be in my life. And um

Yeah, funny one. I've got a daughter who's who's very clever. And now what she does is she sings songs about me um while I'm with her and the one the other day was He never plays with us. He says that he will. Cleaning up something. I was like having having to do something. Yeah, thank well thank you. She she's still learning but I was But yeah, so so that's where criticism's coming at me at the moment in in song form. In song in song.

So yeah. That's it's tough. And yeah, and we'll talk about the Yeah, you do you have a Grizzy? I'm living a Grizzy but we'll pick it up next time. I don't wanna do it today. Okay. Well let's go to Winslow because it ties well to mine. I don't object to fun. I love fun. In fact, I'm the grand funk master of

I love the canned laughter. We should have canned laughter. We need it. Problem is we'll be like, all right boys, that wasn't funny. For a minute, that's a lot. Get to the parents and stuff. Yeah. But no, mine is um what I would say for the first time in six terms, I've navigated a very positive and smooth holiday period, school holiday period. Just smooth. Just everyone's falling in, reacting, doing well accordingly.

For what had previously been a lot of, you know, I'm not doing that or that's not it, my friends aren't there it Kids just seem to get used to the rhythm of

uh no actual rhythm in their life. Like there's no you lose all the routine during school holidays, which I think is the toughest thing for a kid when you really boil it down. They're like, Well, what am I doing today? Like what's this thing today? My kid jumped on everything that we said she's gonna do and it's stuff she likes to do, like it's you know D a day with mates or, you know, a day with me or a day with mum or whatever it is and then, you know, uh uh craft a noon.

Yeah, beautiful. Some craft and learning. Yeah. Like art shop stuff. And for the first time,'cause uh The one in Kinder has qualified as a five year old, so five year olds are allowed to go to these things. So now she's going to like the school holiday programme as a five year old. Yeah, maybe but it's like if you think about it like just doing kindy, because she's five, she's going. She goes, yeah. So we experimented with that big day.

Kids are cooked. Yeah, yeah. Um but it was really interesting. Um and then that's kind of the first pairing of the two of them doing something together. Oh, yeah, yeah. Which I'm looking forward to next year, Billy,'cause the double drop off. Apparently everyone says it's a great relief when they're all at one place. Yeah, yeah. Which is Something I'm really looking forward to that I haven't had since daycare.

Um which was only small overlap. Sorry, small non descriptive things, though. I'm gonna need you when school holidays start. I'm not sure what's going on. School holidays. I don't know how we're gonna do school. School is yeah. Oh god, people No, no, I don't think everyone's feeling it. That's why you're Techers. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So yeah, it's um

Yeah, and also, which is not my Winslow, but it's been awesome because uh Evie, who's now four, is rolling into ninjas. Oh yeah, the kids are doing ninjas together. How good. I know, which is uh it won't surprise listeners at all, but you're just so amazing because you were so nervous and you just

grabbed her hand and went and sat on the mats with her and the excuse to get on the mats, no. It was awesome. I could take all these little kids. Kramer inside. Kramer, how old are these kids? Seven. No. Um, no, that was awesome. That's that's probably a winslow I if I'd reflected a bit harder. That was s was a winslow for me, mate, just watching uh her and you you know, succeed in that space together. She did so well. Are we doing that tonight? Yes.

Someone is someone will be going up there. Hopefully she sold it by herself. Someone with three kids. Uh well maybe we could take. Anyway. Probably not need to do for the Patreon. People don't need to hear the the live admin roll out. No, but I'll pick him up Tuesday, you go Thursday. No one needs to hear this. But oh we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll navigate that, but that'll be cool. Yeah, so yeah. And then my actual winslow is yeah the

Yeah, the birth of a beautiful third child. So bang. New new baby in the crew. And you love babies. So Classic Annalise, so had to um leave the hospital early and then, you know, we got you around I think the first day home. So gorgeous. Yeah, she's beautiful. Beautiful. Such a privilege and it's such a joy um for me.'Cause it's interesting. I don't know w if you were like this with successive kids, but I remember talking about this I think on this podcast or one other one.

When Charlie came along I was worried oh I'm not gonna love him as much as I love Evie because I can't love anyone as much as I love Evie. And now I'm madly in love with Charlie, so it's kinda cool to know that's coming for Heidi and I like And at least it's like with every part of our life doing all the heavy lifting. But um but yeah, it's been beautiful to just have this new little bub around. And it's funny because we did all this work, like

Because the masculinity episodes actually in Charlie with dolls and play and caring and all that stuff. But he's um yeah, Charlie is behind with his language, finally got his hearing tested, which was an amazing team of audiology guys. Um and Hearing All Good? Hearing All Good, which is awesome. But he doesn't talk much. But might not be as um you know, behind as we're worried about'cause what he does now is he pretends that Heidi, who's just clicked over three weeks,

is hitting him. He gets her arm, hits himself and then pretends to be crying. So he's just ticked over two, ticked over two three days after she was born. So instant middle child, he'll always be in the shadow of her birthday. So um Middle child son. I wonder what the psychology I wonder what the behavioural stuff is around that. Yeah, yeah. Well it's not set in stone, Doctor Nick. So we will do some work on making sure.

That he has sanctuaries and a voice and all those things. But yeah, it's been a little bit more. Sorry, sorry, I went like his journey as a middle child. But um but no, we'll see mate. It's uh yeah, it's probably Annalisa's choice more than it's mine. Since she's the one that does everything. But um but yeah, so it's uh yeah, it's been really beautiful mate and just Really nice, really lucky. But interestingly, which would be on topic. Um

Yeah, I found it hard sitting around for two weeks, like and so did Atlite. So we went out a bit and did stuff. Yeah. Topic. Mate I missed Clinic. Like two weeks. Two weeks I miss clinic. I miss seeing the kids. It was awesome to be back in there this week and seeing them. Just some beautiful kids and parents. Go and booked a couple of appointments. Tell me about it. It's uh mate, I need appointments, which is what we'll be talking about. Okay.

But let's talk about Gladiator. Okay. Do you know? I I mean only one person guessed it and they said we've o I've already got the book at some point. What was the what was the clue again? Mm one of the best opening scenes in cinema that starts with a man and a bird. Well You had your chance. Had a couple of weeks, mate. Of course. Yeah. Cause I saw Ridley Scott there's a little thing on him uh talking about it saying anyway, gladiator. Ridley Scott, what a you reckon the best?

Delmer and Louise, Blade Runner, Gladiator. Could be almost like a You were going so well. Um he did something else recently as well, didn't he? Yeah yeah. Produced something really still going. It was big. Yeah. I'm trying to think what it was. There's been a few though, but nothing that's probably reached the peaks of Thelmer and Louise or Blade Runner or Gladiator Aliens. Yeah. Uh no, yeah, he's great. He's great. And how did you find how did you find the rewatch? Good rewatch.

So aged well. Yeah, I agree. The technology aged well used in it. Yeah. Because there wasn't much. Yeah. Which was good. Yeah, big sets. Yeah, big sets, yeah. You know, like means it's just always gonna look good. Um thought it age Oh this feels rough, I don't know.

Maybe even better than Braveheart, which was very similar to Braveheart, isn't it? Yeah, Braveheart I think was ninety five. Yeah, Braveheart is story of like adversity and revenge and interesting how different the endings are when you think about the different ending to Braveheart, the different ending to Gladiator. Which is why Gladio did quite well. Well, he doesn't get tortured to death. Oh, he doesn't go well.

Yeah. Yeah, okay. All right. Well we're not using a debate for Topic, sure. Um let's get along. No, if Mel comes on the podcast I'll let him know how you think.

I'm sure he'll take that well. You would stitch me up so quickly on a podcast. Um No, uh yeah,'cause I great rewatch. Um can I I d I sort of recognise some of the cast by eye but like it's not a star started cast for such an epic film. How dare you? Well what do you mean? Oliver Reed, one of the best actors ever alive. Rough bloke though. Rough bloke. Yeah, no good.

Oh, he just played up a bit. It was yeah. It was hammered all the time, womanizer. But yeah, Oliver Reed dies during the movie. And that's why they had to superimpose some stuff. Died during it. Yeah, died during it. So this movie famously was like being written as it was being filmed. And so a lot of it was yeah. Build a plane while they're flying it. Yes. Love that speak. Yeah, it's um ridiculous.

Got used a lot throughout the pandemic. Like that doesn't even make sense. But the um yeah, Oliver Reed, Rast Phoenix, like Russ's best, do you reckon? Who? Russ. Oh, Russ's height. Yeah, yeah, I agree. Phoenix? I can have brought him in. Yeah. Uh what nine years earlier? Yeah, really. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. God he's a very different age. God, but it's amazing. You know, this is twenty five years ago. I just I don't think of him as an old actor now. Do you know what I mean? He must have been

So young when he did that. Yeah, yeah. Like early 20s. He's amazing in it as well. Oh, he's yeah, he's chilling. Yeah, scary. And do you know who do you know which bits are who is real and which bits are real and which bits are made up of Gladiator? You know, we we actually talked about that. I was like I would have thought the actual gladiatorial scenes. I don't think I don't know. Part of me was like Were they actual battles or more sacrifices? Like Uh very changed.

Yeah. During Commodus' reign. Go on, tell me. So Commodus was real. Oh really? He was um Okay. Yeah, Marcus Aurelius' son, who's played by Phenomenal Actor I've just gotten the name of. Yeah, so he was Marcus Aurelius was real. Um Commodus was real. Um Maximus was not. Um, interestingly, Commodus was such a um

Such not a great person that he actually did get murdered. Um he was poisoned, he was doing some pretty awful things. Um and he used to like just slaughter animals in the gladiator ring, like in the Coliseum. Saw himself as this like Hercules. And so he kind of wanted to be a deity and wanted like a big fan club.

So he used to fight against wounded soldiers like he does in the movie. And they poisoned him but it didn't work, so they sent in a wrestler to strangle him to death. So he died Cold Narcissus. Yeah. Narcissist was the name of the wrestler. Because he had this hit list and they they found that he was gonna murder all these people and they're on the list. So they went to the wheel. Why would you put yourself up?

What do you mean? Why would you put yourself at danger? Oh, of doing it. They were on the list. So they're like, We've got to get ten before. Yeah, but like why if you're sorry, if you're commodus, why would you step into the the ring? was hungry for power and admiration, which is interesting because Marcus Aurelius, his dad was Fimus.

for being the opposite. He was meditations. Have you heard of meditations? Have you read meditations? A book? No, I haven't read So not written as a book. It was never intended to be read. He never called it meditations. It was just him talking about, interestingly, on the Germanic battlefront. About his thoughts and the thing. Yeah. Last in that scene he's writing. Yeah. So it must be a nod to it. Yeah, nod to it. Yeah. Yeah. And then um

The bust is the bust in the room of um the movie. Yeah, that's Augustus. So the first kind of Roman Emperor What do you reckon, uh sorry, some busts? I'm just saying. Wouldn't mind a bust. But I'd I'd love a bust. I could even just have it sitting in here when I do the patrons on my own. Can you get me a decent jaw?

'Cause I've been told. Well that's the thing, they used to do this. Well Commodus interestingly was quite masculine and attractive and all these things, but was completely like self absorbed. And it's interesting because Marcus Aurelius, his father, was different to that. Now we'll talk about kind of why we think about this, but

It is an interesting portrayal. I don't know how much you know around stoicism, but the problem with the problem I have with Gladiator, um, and it's gonna be related to the topic, is that it gives this idea of just fight. against hardship, fight against adversity, doesn't it? Yep. You kind of that's the story, isn't it? That he overcomes his family being murdered, you know, soldiers trying to kill him, losing all of his army, you know, Maximus.

Yeah. Question Gonna ask you, because it sounds like you know a bit about it. What is to be stoic or what is stoicism? What's the definition and is and is Marcus not Marcus Aurelius, is Maximus the epitome of stoicism? In ways he is. Okay, in ways he is. Stoicism is a philosophy. Yes. Um we can talk about its origins and all that stuff. But essentially at its core, it is trying to just focus on being the best version of yourself.

and looking internally, not kind of you know, the f one famous phrase of it is everyone dies, not everyone dies complaining. You know, which is a tough thing. So but it's interesting because I could fall into the trap of using stoicism and saying I should be more stoic. And that kind of idea of The problem with the criticism of Marcus Aurelius, w he's beautiful and he's like done this amazing thing for humanity in writing meditations because it gives us an insight into

what the most powerful person in the world at the time was thinking. And there is a c uh you need to compliment him a little bit for the fact that he was choosing to think about himself and not just enjoy all the things of life he could have, like commodist did.

Do you know what I mean? Marcus Aurelius could have just been like, I want to be rich, I want to be powerful, I want to be wealthy. But he was sitting there writing about how to make himself a better person. The problem is he has this huge privilege, just as Maximus does. Do you know what I mean? Most of us are not the leader of an army. Most of us who are taken out the back to get murdered die.

Most of us can't overcome their son and wife being murdered. Most of us can't go into the gladiatorial arena and succeed. Most of us drown in that s in every one of those steps, most of us fall down and don't get back up. Yes. And that's the criticism of stoicism from Maximus uh from Marcus Aurelius' perspective is It's very easy to do that when you have so much power and privilege. And so the criticism of stoicism would maybe be that um you're not resolving the trauma or

You're just kinda like gritting your teeth and barging. Well what happens if you're not born like being the best version of yourself? What happens if you have an intellectual disability? What happens if you're never gonna be able to rise above Do you know what I mean? self compassion or self kindness. You you can find it in Stoicism, but it's not really in meditations. It's in another guy called Seneca. And what Seneca's got a beautiful quote that I won't remember exactly.

But so so yeah, there's two there's a powerful bit of Marcus Aurelius as well. But Seneca talks about sometimes just living is courageous. Yep. And that's a really important thing that can frame self-compassion. Yep. Is that instead of like a big problem for a lot of us is an internal critic.

I should be doing better. Yeah. Look I should be battling. I should be in the arena. I should be seeing this as an opportunity to be stronger. Yep. But that can be harmful sometimes. Okay. Do you know what I mean? And that's the topic, sorry, which I haven't given it to you. Go on, what is it? Survival.

Survival. The reason we're doing it is because we had a bit of feedback coming in, including one amazing dad who came up to me in person saying, Sometimes I need a break from the podcast. It's amazing, but sometimes I need a break from it'cause it just reminds me of all the stuff I'm not doing.

It is a lot to take in. Do you know what I mean? And I can't use the strategies and I'm not doing that thing, just getting through the day, and my inner critic is saying you're not a good parent because of it. Okay, we're gonna talk about the inner critic. Yeah, we'll talk about the inner critic, we'll talk about this. But it is interesting'cause yeah, Seneca's idea of stoicism being a way to say you are being courageous.

'Cause courage is important. We'll talk this will come back in the clip. But we'll you know, survival. And what uh what Marcus Aurelius can give us through his meditations, and once again I won't be verbatim with the quote, But your your thoughts die your soul, as in DYE. Uhhuh. And the idea is that the how we think about things and even Dan Siegel, this amazing guy that I've I've spent time with, talks about it's how you make sense of your story.

It's how you make sense of your history. It's how you make sense of what's going on in your life. That means whether you can have a healthy way to process it or not. And if you think about that, think about adversity you face, struggles you're having in the day, getting the girls out of the door. It's how you make sense of it. But instead of being like people have had a harder time or I just need to toughen up.

The toughen up idea we've talked about this, this idea of John Henryism. G I think we did it in the masculinity. I might have just said one or two sentences about it, but it is this idea that just push harder. But what we know is that stress, that accumulative prolonged chronic stress of just telling yourself to be better and push harder can be harmful.

Like physically, in terms of blood pressure, heart attacks, ulcers, you know, cancer rates even with elevated stress. Like my mum was stressed her entire life and then had a brain tumour in her early fifties and died. You know what I mean? She was constantly next year is the year that we'll be able to afford a holiday. You know, next year is the year that things will be okay. She worked three jobs and was constantly stressed. Now

I've got to think about her when I'm on the podcast saying, Get down and do co regulation and you know what I mean? I've got to think about that's you and I years ago, those are the families we're trying to get to. That's how we change the world. Do you know what I mean? Lift those kids. And, you know, this idea that just be stoic about it is is a fragile one that can sometimes set us up to fail because we can't be gladiators.

You know, we can't go in and always fight. It hurts us to always be fighting. And there's lots of families that every day are fighting. And then even worse, they're beating themselves up because they should be doing better. And actually, sometimes just surviving is courageous. Okay. That makes sense. Yep. It does make sense. Now we'll yeah, so let's we'll we'll come back to this at the scene. But we'll talk about some of the evidence. So Winnacot.

We've heard of Winnicott. Why have we heard of Winnicott? Because he's the good enough parenting guy. So good enough parenting can help us here. My guy. My guy. So Winnicott, British pediatrician, his whole idea was that it's actually impossible to be perfect all the time and it's actually important that you're not, which we've spoken about in a couple of different episodes, but to focus on it it's important. Yeah, but why? Why is it first time, why is it impossible?

It's impossible. It's like it's impossible to be happy all the time. Yeah. It doesn't work. Yeah, exactly. And you'll fall short. And why is it impossible to meet your kids' needs every time? 감사합니다. Um It's their needs are I was gonna say, well their needs are uh sometimes farcical. Yeah. Or needs more than it wants. Sorry. No. No, it's um uh because you just can't. Like they they want pancakes for breakfast.

Which which actually they got the scrolling for the record. I didn't need everything going smooth today. Yeah. Sorry. Yeah, exactly. Do you beat yourself up about that, if you're being honest? About giving them the pancakes. Yeah. You do, really. Bit yeah. Yeah, okay.'Cause I'm like

And how will you process that? How will you be okay with that in an hour or tomorrow? Give'em broccoli for dinner. Or try and give'em something healthy later. Try and balance it. Yeah, but how do you not feel like a bad dad because you're doing something like that? Oh, I cut myself a lot of slack. Beautiful. Yeah,'cause I looked at my kids and are they are they happy and healthy. Like they don't eat pancakes every day.

Although for one of them it is the second time. Anyway, I'm not gonna beat myself up. Yeah, beautiful. Um Do you think you do that innately or have you learnt how to do that? What? Be compassionate to yourself. Oh, I've learned it. Yeah. From my thirties onwards. Yeah. Which wasn't long ago. No minute. But it's a long time. Yeah. Used to beat myself up. Yeah. And so the evidence shows.

that compassion, kindness and mindfulness are three key ingredients that can help parents and kids have better outcomes in terms of development, mental health. Kind self-kindness, self-compassion. We'll talk about those things and mindfulness. And mindfulness. Okay. Good combo. Yeah. A delta. Yeah. Yeah. So what's the idea? So yeah, let's go but d I'll come back to that. Winnicott, the second bit. Why is it important that sometimes we fail?

So we learn to pull ourselves back up. Yeah, but what what are we what's one of the most important things that our kids are watching? Uh how we turn things around. Yeah. When we come up short. Yeah. So we're modelling it? Yeah. What are we modelling first? The emotional difficulty. Yeah, the failure. Failure. Yeah. And it's actually important that we put effort into that.

By not hiding it. Yep. By putting language around it. By saying I'm frustrated. I do that. Yeah. Or I don't so I'm just saying. I just I've I'm shutting down and I'm not speaking much T V because I'm just really annoyed right now. Mm. Not blaming her, I'm not putting guilt on her or shame about this is your fault, but I'm not hiding from her that I'm frustrated. And then I show her the repair and I broadcast it and how I talk about it as well. I just need to walk away for a second.

or sometimes i just need to give you a hug is that okay You know? She says, No, that's cool. She says, Yes. Awesome. Like, yep, see that helps me feel better. We're I was in a workshop at the hospital yesterday and we talked about like what are the things that protect your mental health. And I wrote down spending time with the people I love.

That's the most protective thing that I do. I do lots of other things. Healthy maybe. I went for uns morning. Unhealthy, I was exhausted last night. Should've gone to bed and I had some wine. You know what I mean? And sat there watching garbage.

So you know what I mean? Like it's um yeah, it's just one of those things that like thinking about what's going on. Now your thing that you're doing really well is yeah, your the the kindness and compassion, I guess the way that I think about the two different levels of that. is that you're reflecting in the moment of I feel a bit crap that I've given pancakes for breakfast. But what would you do if I said that I was doing a bad job? So if I just said

Oh mate, I haven't even given Charlie a hug this morning. I've just rolled straight in to talk about how good a parent I am. I feel really crap about it. What would I say? Yeah. I would if I was being really good, I'd be like, oh that's tough. That must feel shit. Yeah. Yeah, I think I'm a really crap dad.

I would say I would on well, I would jump to resolution. I'd be like, I don't think that's true, mate. Yeah. I think there's a lot of stuff that you do really well. Here's two of them. Yeah, beautiful. Might find a third quickly as well. I could find ten. Don't know why I limited it to two. But do you do that with yourself? Um Um okay so that's a strategy. And then

Yeah, I think I do. I think I go Yeah. I th I think about I think about the balance and maths of it. So in my head it's it's a bit mathematical. That's how my brain works, I've come to realise like it works on maths and balance. Yeah, okay. A balance of books, Billy. Balance two sides of the equation. Yeah.

Yeah, you must be in the is it in the black or in the red that's good? In the black. In the black. You must be in the black on everything. I'm um I'm neutral. But how do you do that? Tell me how you do it. So you're a bit maybe not the pancakes, but you've done something that like you makes you feel like you're a crap dad. Yeah. How do you go through that process of balancing the book?

Um, I'll just make note of maybe something I've done I don't know, I don't think about it too much. I think about something that I've done recently that was that was better and then I'll sort of plan ahead to what's next. So I'll make sure I try not to do again in the next twenty four hours.

Yeah, yeah. And it sounds like you also reflect on the things you're doing well. Yeah, yeah. Like you've got it. Like you've got it with me. This podcast has taught me to do that. You gotta stop and sort of cut yourself some slack. To this point, like you do I get if I don't the outcome is worse. See if I don't take the time like I'm lucky I get to sit here two hours every fortnight and chat to you about it. So actually this is the reflection in a lot

Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. And then what you teach me I'll take away and try and apply, right? Through that fortnight, right? Yeah. So I'm lucky, I'm I'm for I'm not forced, but I stop and take the time to do this, then I obviously Like I listen and Henrietta will ask me about it, like this is what it was about and then I'll try and she'll be like, Okay, where would we use it? I'll go here. Yeah, beautiful. So I'm lucky to do that, to have that time.

To do that. Um and that's how I do it. Beautiful. And that's like yeah, we're very both of us are very lucky that we have the time to do this by lucky. being able to kind of reflect and have the space to build that skill is really important. Or to be compassionate to yourself as if and therapeutically we talk about this. How would you so someone you love and care about, what would you say to them?

if they were feeling like that. And it's a good trick to try and learn what does my inner voice tell me? And that's where that self compassion comes from. And our inner critic, my inner critic, is very hostile towards me. Because it's protected me through my childhood um and my adolescence. But it's still a very negative voice that's very derogatory to us. Yeah, that's the problem. It was adaptive. Almost everything we're doing is a reason why we're doing it.

Like it's not I'm just not do you know what I mean? I'm s seeing it very privileged to be able to see a therapist and You know, I even said to them the other day, I was like, I feel like I'm so arrogant because I like the podcast and the social enterprise that it sits within, I'm trying to change the world. And how arrogant is that? And he's like, Billy, of course you think you can change the world. You needed to believe that. You know what I mean? And that's a lot of us and like and that's

what I'm trying to do with this and the balance for me is that there's a vulnerability in it. Like and and I I wanna read something because there was this beautiful moment that showed me that I've grown and this is me being compassionate to myself. where some negative feedback came in. Um I haven't told you this.

And what I'd normally do is once I catch it and I threat seek now, I read every email and go, Cool, it's okay. Every DM, cool, it's okay, it's not negative And you know, there've been times where I'm like, Can I keep going with this? And like I lis miss the two weeks of clinic.

I get way more out of this than I give and I need to learn that self compassion. But also like I speak to a lot of people in the media that have much bigger, bigger platforms and profiles and stuff, and I'm like, how do you deal with criticism? And multiple like everyone I've spoken to says, I don't read it. And I'm like, How do you know there's not something in there that'll make what you're doing better? And they're like, It's not worth it.

And I don't believe that. I don't ignore it. So I got this come in. It was I get both sides of that. T totally. I'm not criticising those people to do that. Yeah, go I ask you something just quickly, what's threat seeking?'Cause I think I do that when I like open up my emails at the start of the day sort of thing.

Similarly, different. I don't get personal feedback, but I'm like, what's what's the stuff that's gonna trip me up here? Yeah, exactly. So I'm checking and going, is this a positive email? And I will scan it and be like, cool, it seems like there's nothing attacking me in it. It's sight.

Cool. If I see it and the problem is, every so often you're right. And it is. Like this is the hard thing for a lot of us. That's right. And that's yeah. Yeah, and I've I've had it been traumatized by an exact example that I don't think I've ever spoken about on the podcast. You don't have to. You're allowed to, sorry.

It was do you know what it was? It was the day I met Annalise. Have I told you that? Was this? I was at a music festival with mates and someone texted me and is like uh a whole bunch of us swore out I've told you this bit, haven't I? A whole bunch of us swore out at dinner. From uni and someone who I've don't reckon I ever had a conversation with was like Yeah, nobody likes Billy but Billy. And it was like this affirmation of, Yeah, I am a piece of shit. Like, you know what I mean? I knew that.

And it's so funny'cause I was in this hole and that's like echoed since then over ten years ago just through my life of it's right. I am a piece of crap and that's what I talked to my therapist about. Um but I met Annalise that day. So isn't it amazing that like Annalise then, like just she likes Billy. Has one of our best mates, you know, walks over the festival to a bunch of girls and

you know, w women that are dancing around, we went over and started dancing and then that was how I met out at least changed my life that day. Like for the probably the best thing that's ever happened to me besides meeting you. Um but, you know, it was this um It's this beautiful moment, but it comes from that and that's the threat seeking of like when we've been traumatized or we've stuffed up or we've had something that makes us feel like we're not a good parent.

We're constantly looking for that to be right. Yeah. Now the beautiful thing and you and Annalise have helped me do this is this came in and I instead of what I'd normally do, if I'm being a hundred percent honest, I'd go like we talked about in the past episodes, I'd either attack them or attack myself. I'd be like, I do all this for free in my free time, like I could just sit here, I could do more clinic and make money. Instead I'm doing this and now they're attacking me. I didn't do that.

I uh go said to Anneliese, Hey, can you have a look at this? Neutral. Didn't like wasn't like, Hey, what do you think? And Annalise is like Yeah, you're very lucky that someone feels comfortable sending that in to you. And so I then um wrote back to them and said, you know, I'm really sorry. The main criticism was off the back of the neurodiversity. They were like

You haven't told my story. Like I don't see myself and my family in that narrative. Um, you know, kids with disability are not there to motivate others. Um, they're there legitimately and all that stuff. And it was really powerful stuff. And this amazing parents ended it with I know Billy will probably be cut up by this.

But I also know you're trying really hard to do this well and I hope that you'll be able to reflect on it. And then we had this beautiful email that went back and forth and I wanna read to you just because it's important that this gets said because this parents made this effort. Um dear Billy and Nick, thank you for giving me the opportunity to talk to the PCP community about our family.

This is about survival. My husband and I have two red headed children, a fierce, cheeky, and charming blue obsessed two year old daughter, and a beautiful, happy, almost four year old son who loves looking at recipe books. My son has what experts call very substantial support needs. He's autistic level three, he's minimally speaking, speaking, mouths everything and there's not a simple task in his day that he doesn't need some help with.

The developmental protective factors you so often talk about on PCP. I'm not sure my son has any of them. Your listeners might feel sorry for our family when they hear this, but I want to make it clear, in no uncertain terms, that these are not negative things, they're just facts. My son, like his sister, is amazing and he's exactly who he's meant to be. He brings joy to everyone who he meets.

And it's not because he inspires them with his mere existence. He makes people happy because he's one cool little dude and we're all lucky to get to hang out with him. Nevertheless, our family is in survival mode. Pretty much all of the time and I would be lying if I said our life isn't difficult.

Importantly, that difficulty does not come from my son's autistic traits. It comes from society's refusal to adequately support families like ours, unapologetically designing spaces and systems that actively exclude us, and using the excuse of parental responsibility to wash their hands of us so they can save a few dollars.

I have no choice but to be the annoying pushy parent who's always having to advocate for their child and trying to mask my own neurodivergence while I do it so I don't accidentally put people off side. I spend my downtime reading every policy I can find on disability education, the NDAS, so you name it, so that I can quote it back to the government bureaucrats who try their to do things against my son's best interest in the name of saving themselves a bit of money or effort.

We have to fight for everything in my son's life, equal access to education, proper health care, adequate therapy, even the ability to use a local playground and it's exhausting. I don't exercise enough or eat well and I rarely get to shower. There was a while where my parenting mantra seemed to be a tear filled. I'm so sorry, nobody's coming to help us. Mummy's only one person and she's doing the best she can.

I listen to PCP in the hope that one day I can have the energy to implement your suggestions so that I can have both my kids grow up into their best selves. I do this hoping that one day my son will be able to understand what I talk when I talk to him in the ways you suggest. But sometimes I've listened to the episodes and I think I just can't do that with my child. Where does that leave me?

I hope the answer is this. We live in a community and communities are meant to help each other. Families like mine need to need help to survive and perhaps most critically I think others Sorry. I think others need help to learn how to help us. So often people seem to want to help, or at least I think they would if they knew how truly hard it is. And they just don't know where to start. But it can be but it can't be all on families like mine anymore.

Before my stay at home parent days I worked in education, I would often have students who didn't want to ask for accommodations because they were embarrassed or thought they were undeserving. I would always say to them If everyone else is sailing and you have to swim, it's okay to ask if you can have a boat.

I hope this episode can help some of your listeners find their boat. Many thanks again to you and your families for all the time and effort you put into the pod. There really is no space like it. So yeah, God I didn't realise that hit me so much. Sorry. Um but it's important, isn't it? And that kind of idea of giving ourselves some slack and not seeing ourselves as, you know, gladiators that need to fight harder or need to be more stoic.

But actually this is not me. This is society and we need to help each other more, you know, and thinking about that being a reflection that we work on. This is not me. And you know, I I have to work on that and I have to fight my inner critic with that and try and find the bits that are helpful and serve me and the bits that don't. You know, it's it's a really important it's even a practical thing. We spoke about this

Casey Davis, you know, talking about how where, you know, Casey Davis, the therapist who wrote, you know, r d does kind of work in the space of like pushing back against this as long as you fold your underwear and all that kind of stuff. And she's like As I said last time, spaces are meant to serve us, not serve them. But you and I have a history of this, of the guilt you feel that you're not succeeding as a person if your house is messy. Yeah.

Do you know what I mean? What a crap thing. Yeah. Where does that come from? I know. Yeah. Probably just comes from liv I lived in a pretty tidy house. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Probably our parents felt crap if they wouldn't have a clean house. Yeah. Because this idea of like that means you're doing well at life. Yeah. How ridiculous. Yeah, no, I can't I ca still can't shake it. Yeah, I really struggle with it, but it comes from my childhood. Like I was a good kid if my bed was made.

I was a good kid if I cleaned up after myself. Mm-hmm. Yeah, no, it has an impact. It has a And it fractured relationship with my siblings'cause they never had that expectation on them. And my mum would say, They don't do it. They don't do it properly. I need to go and do it after them, so I may as well do it for them. But then I was like I was the one who has always had to do it. You know, and I and it's one thing Annalise once again is much better than me. She's like

It's just mess. You know what I mean? But I'm like and I get torn because I, you know, I'm like, nah, it doesn't matter, the kids are having fun. It doesn't matter. And then at the end of the day, when I'm exhausted, I see it all and I'm furious. Did I? Same thing. But then it's funny, like I'd go to someone else's house and I couldn't give two hoots.

Exactly. Why is that? That's compassion. You've got compassion for the other person. But not I'm not going to judge them based on how clean their house is. Yeah. But you judge yourself. Yeah. Isn't that awful? It's terrible. Yeah. Fix it Billy. It's crazy. Well, do the same. Put yourself pretend you're going over to someone else's house. Actually, I th I shouldn't care about this. Does this space serve me or not?

You know, and maybe you've therapeutically clean clean the kitchen and it makes you feel good about yourself. But if you're beating yourself up about it, thinking about does this actually matter? And you practice it. You practice leaving stuff. You practice going, who cares? Do a week with uh the clothes. The clean clothes never get into the wardrobe. Do you know what I mean? They do make it to the armchair and couch though. Same. At least and I do weeks where it doesn't get off the couch.

Do you know what I mean? In tough times. And Annalise is really good at cruising with it. I feel like I'm failing at life. Yeah, did I? You know what I mean? So I need to I need to work on that. I don't pretend I've got all the answers. You practice it. You be you practice that self compassion. You also need to be kind to yourself. We'll do a whole topic on mindfulness. So let's just talk about kindness. What does kindness look like?

How are you kind to Nick? I don't know. I don't What do you do for Nick? I try to carve out some time for myself to do things I like to do. Beautiful. Hang out. Yeah. Stuff like that. That's what I try to do. B J. Yeah. Yep. Training, all that sort of stuff. Uh catching up with friends occasionally, not a lot. I don't cut myself that much. Yeah. 'Cause I think I should be studying or learning something new. Do you beat yourself up about Yeah shit you. Sorry, about doing BJ J?

Nah. Why not? Because it is physically really good for me and I get to catch up with a bunch of people really quickly. Yep. It's like forced socializing. I don't think for other people, they socialise as much. They might have more time, but I'm always hanging out and talking to people like it I know there's gonna be six people, at least I know there. Like like it's like going to BFT, like, I don't know about you, but I go to class and I'm like Cool, I know there's gonna be summer though.

Typically dad or I'll be out of chat to or a young guy that I can have a chat to, just to be like what's going on. Yeah. But you're doing better than me'cause yeah I be going to birth tea six mornings a week and I beat myself up in the mornings every time and stealthing out of the house in trying to not make a sound. It's completely dark, so I'm doing it in darkness. And one of the kids wakes up and I'm like, How selfish am I?

And Annalise is like, We should you know, very lucky you get to go. It's your choice. You should be enjoying it. Yeah, but there's worse things to choose as well,'cause you're physically adding years to your life. I hope so, but the cumulative stress I have is not. Like I need to get on top of the stress. So what do you do? Well I need to practice self compassion. Need to have opportunities to Yeah, I mean I I do. Like I you know, I was able to

That that email could have triggered me to be like stuff the podcast. It's actually made me feel better about it because we have a parent like that listening to us. Do you know what I mean? Mm-hmm. So I was able to change my practice in that because of people like you and Annalise in my life supporting me. How did you get how did you arrive at that versus what you usually arrive at? Working on it.

Mm. Every single bit of negative feedback that comes in, speaking to other people about it, that is an evidence based therapeutic approach. Speaking to trusted people and saying, I feel like I'm a crap person. I feel like I'm a crap dad. You know, reaching out and saying that to people you trust. People don't do that, especially dads, they just internalise it. Hold it, stress about it, and fight it, fight their inner critic.

But having a chat to people you trust, you know, and saying, I really feel like I'm failing at life'cause I get no time with these kids. I'm flying off the handle all the time. You know, and thinking about that. And the kindness is important, mate, this week Feel bad saying this. I um I got a facial.

Oh really? You look fantastic. Thank you. It's waiting for you. But you know what I mean? Like Annalise for years has been like use this for your birthday present going at a facial. And I was like, every um gap between clinic, my lunch breaks, I use it for case conferences.

with therapy teams and schools and stuff. And I was like, there was one that hadn't been booked. And I was like, stuff it. I'm gonna go. That's a lot. I was f amazing. Absolutely amazing. Such a privilege to be able to do that. It's about three birthdays worth of built up. Um, amazing. As I was flying back on the bike to get back to our next meeting I was wondering if this is the best way to come off the back of it. Like Do you know what I mean? But it was yeah, it was amazing. True self care.

Thank you. Well I um Well done. You deserve it. Just trying to hold my young dad status. Are you? Mate, how old's El Pacino? He's just out of kids, so Oh really? Oh my so Al if you ever want to come on or we'll cut that at no time.

you know, it's really important to think about this stuff and like think about where are my moments of kindness, they make me a better parent. How do I practice being compassionate to myself? How do I seek that support from others? What would I say to someone else who is experiencing the same you know, in a turmoil and vocalized it to me, I'd probably say, mate, that sucks. As you did. I'm sorry you feel like that. I don't think it's true. I think you're a great dad because of XXX, you know.

Thinking about how do we do that with ourselves. And I I have to practice that. I can I know what the scene is, go. Really? Okay. Well yeah. What can I do? Uh yeah, so what scene do you think it is? Well I think it's the one where

Yakwin says something horrible to him. Oh yeah. Okay, no. No. Okay. Yeah. Don't know what it is. Let's play it. The scene we're gonna do is a parent speaking to his son. The last conversation you'll ever have. The parent, the dad. Okay. Now it's Marcus Aurelius speaking Yeah, he falls on his sword. Yeah. And it's a reflection of parenting. Yeah, yeah. I know I know exactly how this gets. Yep, yep, yep, go. You wrote to me once. Wisdom, justice, fortitude, and temperance.

As I read the list, I knew I had none of them. But I have other virtues, father. That can be a virtue when it drives us to excel. Resourcefulness. Courage. Perhaps not on the battlefield, but there are many forms of courage. Devotion to my family. Do you? But none of my virtues won your list. Even then it was as if you didn't want me for your son. Oh, commonness. You go too far. I searched the faces of the gods. For West, please you To make you proud? One kind word.

Press me in your chest and help me tight. Would have been like the sum of my heart for a thousand years. What? What's to live up? Vater, komm mit uns. Your false as a son is my failure as a father. It is such a good scene to listen to. I mean yes is uh amazing. Isn't he amazing? Yeah, yeah. And it's wow. It's interesting, isn't it? Because the reason I picked that scene is because it's this conversation

You know, he murders his father at the end of it. But he talks about if only you'd loved me. It's interesting to think about this historically as well, because there is like Marcus Aurelius died on the battlefront. They think he died of the plague, but there is some record that looks like Commodus might have motivated his physicians to make it go quicker.

You know, maybe not smothered him but said give him the pain relief, you know, get him get him out of here. Well it's interesting because Marcus Aurelius through the meditations we we see this really high value system of virtues. And Commodus was

born from him. Do you know what I mean? And Commodus was not this good person and all of us as parents are trying really hard. And I think it's probably not too much of a stretch to think Marcus Aurelius probably should have been looking closer at his relationships with his kids. instead of prioritizing, you know, the battlefront and Rome's kind of expansion through the world and all that stuff. And it's it is interesting to think about

you know, how do we think about our priorities and drop everything else and just think about going towards our kids. You know what I mean? And I think that if there's one message that the I wanted the podcast to have etched in if and everyone forgets everything else.

is there's only three things that matter that Marcus Aurelius has missed here. Your kids feeling safe, them feeling loved and them feeling celebrated. That's the trick, isn't it? And if you can find the energy most of the time, and Winnicott helps us with this, most of the time they can feel safe, loved and celebrated.

Then the vegetables, how clean your kitchen is, you know, all of those things don't matter. And they won't not to steal a corny line out of the movie, but that's what echoes in our kids. you know, feelings and thoughts and memories is how we were with them. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? And just thinking about that. Safe love celebrated. Yeah. Yeah. But also just giving ourselves that same compassion.

Being kind to ourselves because our kids are watching us. The other thing to give Marcus a really bit of a break is he had 14 kids. Fourteen. A lot. It's a lot. Different times back then, but but isn't that wild? So maybe, yeah, one out of fourteen. But it's yeah, so I I hope it's Safe, loved and celebrated. Yeah, yeah. And that's that's what matters. And I wanna what I want from this, like it's very hard because you know, I tried to do one that didn't put pressure on listeners in this episode.

But what I'm hoping will happen now is people will send in their stories of survival, their stories of how they get through, their strategies, but also questions about How do I overcome this? I'd love for therapists and educators, all those amazing professionals to come in about their stories and their beliefs and what they've experienced. Um, but I just wanted to end on a beautiful reflection that just came through.

That shows us the power of survival and then um closing it out on that. Um I know this is unusual for a part one. What sort of questions do you expect from people?

I guess questions about how do I get through this, you know,'cause then we can talk to how we use that evidence or bring in other evidence about what we do in clinic. That's what I've spent all week doing. The kids I've seen that are struggling the most You know, I've I've I've seen suicidal teenagers this week that don't want to live another day.

And me and their phenomenal parents are working on safe, loved and celebrated. Safe, loved and celebrated. Not leaving their room, not stop self harming, not stop talking about wanting to kill themselves. That's what we're doing. We're working on that. Yeah. Okay. So I want I want people to feel safe, to feel send in their true stories. Those who've got through it, thinking about your own childhood, thinking about like the unhelpful beliefs that we have about what it means to be a good parent.

the therapists that do this amazing work, the educators that live their lives of these kids and support them and how they do it. And also the people that are stuck sending those stories because we will try and help with that. I think yeah. I wanted this to be one that was still helpful, but not one that adds a burden to parents, one that tries to take it off them.

And hopefully it'll do that. And you and I'll think about it over the next'cause I think you do this much better than I do, but you also help me. You and Annalise are, you know, phenomenally beneficial for me in this way. All right. I'm gonna read this out'cause it's just amazing. Do it. Hey guys. I'm not sure what topic this will fit into best. I more hope that in writing this down, it helps me to process my current situation a bit more.

It's been one month since my wife had her stroke. An early morning wake up that seemed too awful to be real. In that instant, everything changed for her, for me, and for our two young boys. After my initial shock survival mode was activated and oddly, I found pragmatism with an optimistic outlook to be my default. This seemed to serve us all well, and I was sure to keep honest and open with our boys, checking in with them and myself.

As we all waited for the next bit of news, an update on the scans, the surgery, her recovery and transfer to ICU. It was exhausting, but they did so well. And dare I admit it, so did I. I haven't handled every situation since then perfectly, far from it, quite often. I have, however, attempted to manage each situation so it best accommodates the boys. Whilst giving them the opportunity to feel, explore, and still maintain some normality where possible.

The boys have seen a lot in the last month. I sometimes worry that it was too much for them. But I've always tried to give them a choice and explain anything they need to help understanding. When it did seem too much, I've been conscious to not push them, even when our four year old refused to see his mum in hospital for several days. The evolving reality of our new life is continually impacting us all, and I keep myself focused on the now as much as I can.

The future has never been more unsettling, and I find myself at times overcome with waves of strong emotions, and I allow myself to feel these feelings, whether or not the boys are around. When they are, I explain them. I reassure them of their feelings. I try to normalize their expressions of worry and sadness by replying with my own.

Yet I also remind them of the positives every new movement at Mama Masters, how well she does sending them strings of emojis for bedtime, how much she still loves them with all of her heart. I know they will be alright, and I know this because I'm being the best parent, the best partner I can be. Which I have to thank you both for helping me to become. There's a long journey ahead of us as a family, but I guess there always was.

Thanks again. Lots of love to you both. A fellow developing ginger dad.

Yeah, so yeah, it's just like a Possibly the most important thing that comes out of the pot is just, you know, that sometimes many of us are just pushing too hard and we've got to kind of give ourselves that break and reach out to those around us. Challenge the inner critic, give ourselves that kindness, those moments of compassion, and then think I'm I'm actually doing all right. And, you know, we as guiding groom minds need to advocate more

for the community and the systems to support better, not for parents to try harder. And I'm sorry if I've weighed too much on that, but I'll as I'm doing I'll keep trying to do it better. So Yeah, made a big big app. Um you didn't know it was coming as always. No huge app. And just um particularly to that person that wrote into that, Dad, um, thanks heaps for sharing that was particularly difficult for you. And um

Thanks for taking the time and I hope that they're definitely getting the support they need'cause that's um it's a really, really, really, really, really difficult situation. Yeah, and what an amazing thing that like That's a part of PCP. Yeah. Lucky to have'em. Yeah, exactly. We're strong before them. You think about some of the some of the guys that came to the live show, things they're facing and they've dealt with. Yeah. So it's the best thing about this podcast. Yeah.

Yeah, exactly. So phenomenal humans that That guide me, I don't know about you, but these people like I can use that email that came through that message. To give myself compassion but to also realise where the keys are. That person gives them. I show my emotions to my kids, I fall down, I give them the space. I think about how I'm going and I'm just in the present moment where I can be. I celebrate the small victories. That's that's the ep. Like I should have just read that.

You know, it's such a beautiful, insightful, honest, vulnerable, generous thing for someone to send in. Brilliant stuff. All right. Cool. Send your questions through. So if you're just listening to this now, uh you've got you've got yeah, you've got quite a bit of time to get your questions through, but send them through straight away. Make sure you're following us on Instagram so that you can actually

Participate in the polls. We love doing the polls by the IG stories a couple of days out from the um second app. We bring those in and we discuss that. But if you have longer form questions, the best place to send those to is through to popcultureparenting at gmail dot com. Um it's just easier for everyone to catalogue, read and then respond to um on the podcast. Again everything gets red. Not everything gets read out on the podcast, but everything gets read by Billy, uh, which is excellent. Um

But really looking forward to those coming through. And uh Billy, looking forward to episode one fourteen already. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. What are you obligated to? Is it five hundred? Uh I think it's about five fifty. Yeah, wow. 4,200. That's awesome, guys. We'll see you next week, guys. Thanks a lot.