You don't go to any chain red none.
There's in a single chain restaurant where you're like, hey, man, the whatever the appsent TGI Fridays, I go like once a month, like there's nothing.
So Alex likes those kinds of plays, like she likes the big fancy you know, I'm trying to remember what which ones she likes.
I feel like we always go TGI Fridays. Was fancy.
I don't know, I just remember.
I just always I walk into these places and Alex will be so happy. And the menu is like four hundred pages long. Everything on it is like four thousand, five hundred calories per like surveme. And I'm like, I, you know, and I always feel awful afterwards. You eat these giant meals and it like tastes fun, but then you're like, okay, it's all slathered in sauces and I don't know, man, And then I'm like, I don't even yeah, so I'm not a fan.
Like what you're thinking of the one with the thick menu is what's the one that has the menu that's nine hundred pages long that every cheese cake factory, cheesecake factory, thank you, yes, And it's like done in chapters and you're looking at certain menu items, going, does anyone ever order this ever?
On page thirty eight of the menu? Like, yeah, I.
Remember going one time. We went with Alex and some friends and we ended up doing like an all you can eat pasta option in one of these places, and it was so disgusting, like garnt of food that was certain and like everybody was feeling, you know, like you feel obligated to keep eating, take advantage of what you paid for.
And then it was just like oh oh and the garlic.
Bread and no dessert. I'm just like I can't.
I can't.
I like buffets because I like to have a little tiny bit of a lot of things. That's why I loved soup plantations, like them for different Like how I like I have a lot of stuff things.
Yeah, well, you just.
Have to go on a cruise, man, you just like you do love it. It's like your dream come tract. Can cannot believe you haven't done it. Like if you go on like a really nice cruise, you will be in heaven and you're not.
So much food that the boat would be like this at the end.
If the food's already on the boat, so you eating change the way they.
Have to airlift in new food, the entire way.
No, but don't you guys, don't you have those experiences? And then like kind of to me, a unique experience is like part of why you go out to eat, Like the idea of going out to eat and eating the same thing I've had before, and then also the experience looking exactly like every other restaurant.
I've been like, that's not why to go, but that you love so much that you're like, I have to go to this place and get this thing.
I've had that in life, but it's usually because it's an independent restaurant, Like if it's a chain, it doesn't feel that special. I might like the food, but it's like I'm not going to choose to go out and get it again.
This is somebody who's never had a Ruby's Burger. This is being spoken by someone who's never had a real I mean, that's true.
This is this also feels like a personal attack.
It does a little bit. I'm sure all we all.
We do eat it changed, he'll attacked.
But it's also you know, I mean, this is this is not surprising coming from someone whose ideal vacation is in a camper van experiencing something new every single day. Whereas for me, one of the things I like about finding things I like is that knowing what to expect and the comfort, the that type of like that brings me when I'm feeling whether it's like I'm hungry and I know exactly what's going to make me feel satiated. It's that Ruby's burger or you know, yes, I actually anxiety.
Thing probably a little bit too, because that's like this that why people watch the same show like I watched mash over and over. I mean, if you read about it, that's it's a straight up anxiety thing.
So you know what to expect, when to expect it, where are, what the jokes are.
There's a comfort to it, and I think there's I think that also goes with some of the chain restaurants, but there's also you mix. I mean, at the end of the day, Islands has the most amazing French fries you ever.
Now have so time for Red Robin fries, I don't.
I've never had Red Robin in my life.
Will for I know, I know, never knowing me for thirty years and I've never taken you to a Red Robin.
Nope, No, they ever been to a Red Robin either. Maybe I have and I just don't.
Daniel just got it.
I got it, I got it right away.
I love it.
I mean they have their own happy birthday song.
Happy birthday, Have a happy birthday, Happy birthday, have a happy day.
Hey do we have a birthday here? Just we have a birthday here? Birthday? Wear by ear whoa happy birthday? Have happy birthday.
If you travel somewhere, if you go somewhere new in a America, some city, some town you've never been used to go to the Starbucks or the McDonald's or the island.
I agree with you there. When I travel, I do not think of where are the chain restaurants? When I travel, all think, well, I'm only going to be here for a couple of days. Let's look up some local places there are. And what's so depressing is that those are harder and harder to find. Like if you drive across the country, which I do every year, it's like if you are on the freeway, all your options are the same places you go, and it's awful you can't find a unique experience.
And so it's like, what's the point of traveling. It's like America's just replicated itself over and over and over again from city to city, and like that's not good, Like that's really bad for culture. It's really bad for individual experience.
It's like, no, I think I still find those places you just there there you have to.
Hunt for they struggle, man, Like they don't stay open, you know.
Like they don't. You can't.
I mean, you know, to do a really obvious example, you're not going to find a local bookstore anymore, right because everybody's just you just amazon it. You don't so there's no need for And that's a bummer because like if you're looking to that great bookstore in Sebastopol.
We've been a couple in in San.
Francisco, there's there's still you can still find bookstore our bank.
Yeah, so I mean you can still find it.
But yes, they are they are dying, yeah, I mean compared to like even when we're when we were teenagers, like bookstores every neighborhood of every city had a bookstore and that was like a or video store, you know, cultural centers.
I mean it's like, I can't these are stores taking it out of Target.
My favorite part about Target is I would go, I would buy all my clothes for the next five years, and then there'd be the stack of DVDs and it's like what came out? What kind of because Blockbuster is gone, which was the greatest thing in the world, and so yeah, it sucks with.
Jensen finds a way. Jensen finds a way. I know physical media will never die in our house.
Thank God, thank god that we have.
Anytime you guys need to rent a movie, you can come.
To a little Jensen card that you have to swipe and then it's like, as you're checking.
Out, it's like, oh, there, you guys have your own VIP card.
Yeah, at Daniel's house, I could.
I could have it in the house as long as nobody's eating it next to me, just stay in its container.
I can't wait to take Rider to Red Robin because it'll be great.
We'll go.
My birthday is coming up, I mean in like three months, but we'll go.
We'll go for my birthday counts.
We'll exchange Christmas gifts for your birthday.
That's a good idea. We do need to figure out when are we doing our holiday dinner.
We should figure out soon because both your ponies are seriously close today.
Both named Susie.
Both named Susie, and apparently they want to eat every day.
That's probably a bird, like you said, Mine's a bird and Riders is another pony.
Be great, Welcome to Pod Meets the World.
I'm Daniel Fishal, I'm right strong, and I'm Wilfordell.
We are going to be doing these be kind rewind shows and groups of three just in little pockets as a pleasant surprise, and we are very excited about people we have coming back next. So today we finish off our first trio with an episode and a guest that is guaranteed to take home the championship title. Our recent podcast crossover with liv Morgan and Seat four c's big Netflix debut should come as no surprise to.
Boy Meets World fans.
The show and the wonderful world of wrestling go back like babies and pacifiers, from Vader to Jake the Snake, Roberts to Brother Love to eventually Missus Foley's baby boy Mankind. We had enough pro wrestling guest stars to book a pretty impressive tag team match and the reason for this unlikely marriage it's never been a secret to us, and after we interviewed writer Mark Blutman back in season two of the podcast We Let You In on That Secret Too, And so now we have invited.
Back Crusher Comic to take another.
Look at an episode of his choosing and like hearing the ominous gong from the beginning of Undertaker's theme.
Music, you know exactly what's gonna happen next.
It's one of the most fever dream scripts from the series, with a group of cameos that could only be explained as they called a bunch of people and filmed whoever showed up. Hey, there's Robert Gulay. Is that Yasmine Bleith? Does she know she's here? And I guess I was there too, Adam Scott, Bully, Jocks Vader, body slamming Will, Kelly Packard and Blake Senate in the singlet it has everything. So it's time to welcome back the co writer of
this classic comedic romp. Watching season two episode twenty one, Thrilla in Phila, it's Mark Blutman.
It's so weird to go back. Hey, hello, welcome.
Oh my gosh, it is always so cool. I'm here too, writer, Yeah, yeah, wow, I'm like, who's the young intern exactly.
That's what we said. It's like having kid writers strong with us.
We all we all go through these phases and stages where we make change. Man, my thing was kind of organic. I had like so few on my I was like literally once in a restaurant and the next table like a little kid with their parents is looking at me doing this. I'm like, what, Oh, we're teaching them to count with your hairs. I think it's time.
I think I can just get rid of it.
It's great. Everybody like, you guys are the best. This is amazing. Congratulations what is this now? Like I remember I was on one of the first, but you guys must be at like one p fifty now somewhere.
How many episodes we've done?
No, think about it. Yeah, it's amazing.
Yeah, it's the episodes of this and we have a Boy meets World. I think, yeah, you're probably at this point.
Yeah, we're at it.
I think we have. Yeah, let's syndicate this podcast.
Yeah, so Mark, before we jump into the episode, I'm not sure if you have heard any of our get Writer to wrestle Mania campaign, but we wanted to see if you could give a little like small sales pitch to writer about making a podcast trip to Vegas to see the biggest night of them all in person.
Well, I'll do it as a wrestler.
Okay, a promo, give us a promo.
Yes, let me tell you something, mister Strong. It's about time you got with the people. Everybody loves wrestling. You started as a theater kid. There's no better feat then wrestling, good versus evil, shield versus face, usually the face winning in.
The end because good will always triumph. It is the finest story telling in the land.
It's about time got hip and got with your friends Will and Danielle and made an appearance. And I guarantee you no shape to you, mister Fredell, but they'll put your name underneath your.
Thank you.
Competition between me and Will at.
The end there.
He saw that, saying it's the finest storytelling gotten and then decided if I go for competition between you guys guys right.
Just so Rider could flex for the rest of his life going. I don't know, well they had my name was it though? And I also, by the way I heard the episode with Yeah, it was awesome and a great episode. But for you Will, how was it like?
How amazing? Is truly amazing. I mean it was.
It was such high energy the because it's it's so many different aspects that were incredible, from the storytelling to the music, to just the fanfare, then to the athleticism that you're watching go on. It was.
It was really fun. Yeah, he had a good fun and I'm so looking and enjoyed it, which was this.
Is great, amazing And by the way, I saw her on on Cameron they put her name under the awesome mar Any of you see the Royal Rumble?
Oh yeah, I watched parts of the Royal Rumble. It was it was pretty long, but we watched parts of it.
Good Speed took a bump, man, I mean that was a that was.
An intense moment. I can't believe they hit him so hard, so hard.
I'm like, I don't know, wow, but I love it.
Yeah, I'm like he didn't sell it.
He really was, He really did.
No, I know, there was no way of selling that. I'm yeah, it was pretty crazy. There was a streamer that jumped into the ring and took a hit. It was pretty pretty crazy to watch. So Mark, you were gracious enough to come back and have a more detailed look at an episode of your choosing, and to no one's surprised, you picked one of our two most famous wrestling weeks, Thrilla and Phila. So we had you watch it again now thirty years later. What were your feelings?
Honestly, I was somewhat horrified at first to like turn it on and click it and all that stuff, because listen, I get it, you know, and you guys do such a graceful and in depth job looking at something from thirty plus years abow, so there is context. I was horrified, and I was pleasantly surprised. Great, great, and you know just what made it so wonderful? Listen, it was ninety three ninety four, and there's some things that I wish, you know, maybe we didn't do, and we can get
to that, but everybody's performance was so much fun. Everybody bought into it. You know, we weren't doing a serious should to Panga go to Yale episode? Yea, it was what it was. And I grew up on happy days. And there were episodes that sometimes you know, we'll eventually jump the shark.
Yeah, how about we want away? If not even jump the shark.
This was more the Malatchie Crunch episode with pinky and leather task. Yeah, so that's where this one was in the in the television site geist, I think.
But it was always you know, and one of the reasons why, you know, Howard and I had so much success on the show is because we were able to find those crazy story but always there was always a little bit of heart. Yeah, you know, and at the end of the day. Listen, I've said this before, maybe said it on this pod. My biggest influence was John Hughes, and John Hughes was all about coming of age. Right,
coming of age isn't just relationships between two people. It's an individual's you know, journey to from childhood into adulthood. But really it's all the mistakes along the way. Yeah. Sure, that was Corey and Sean.
You know, this was your fifth episode of five in your first season, so right out of the gate, writing at a fevers pace, how long did it take you to pitch your first wrestling storyline in the room?
You know, I think we had the story of Corey wanting to become a jock, and then from there where
it evolved. It was a pretty interesting story and it's been told many times by certain people, and and and The accurate story is simply that we're sitting in the room and we're saying, well, if the story is going to take this direction and end up where Corey thinks he's just going to do a collegiate wrestling story and ends up in a professional wrestling match with all the farts that goes with it, let's bring in a w
w F at the time. Yeah, wrestler. See that's by the way, writer, when you go and meet people backstage, don't say wrestler, say wrestler. That'll buy you street cred. The it's old school wrestler. Wrestler.
But that's what needs is WWE street cred.
Yeah, that's what he's been looking for.
The wrestling name is the poet. It does not evoke a lot of danger in the ring.
And by the way, you should say that back in the day, Macho Man's real life brother was Lanny Poffo that for about four years did a gimmick as the poet laureate and he came into the ring, was introduced and cited poetry.
Oh god, it's so awesome.
But anyway, so we're sitting in the room and I said to Michael, we have an organic way to make this work. Frankie's father, it makes sense that he has a father that's a wrestler. Big dude, let's find a wrestler. And there was an exec at Disney who has unfortunately since passed away, but super nice guy he was on the business side. His name was Mitch Ackerman.
Oh god, I remember Mitch right, long, black.
Hair, super super hip, and we were introduced to each other and we would talk wrestling. In fact, there was a famous match during a wrestle Mania that they called the back Studio Lot Brawl, and it was gold Dust against Roddy Piper and it was a huge, huge match shown during Well Mitch had them pre taped the match in the studio lot at Disney. So I went to Mitch one day we got together for lunch. I said, we want a wrestler on the show, and Mitch was
my introduction to the guys at WWF. I'm time. As Danielle knows now, I have several friends who are wrestlers with both WWE and ae W, and back then I was just a fan. I've been a fan since I'm six seven years old. Mitch said, I'll set up a call, and he set up a call with myself and Bruce Pritchard, who you guys had on Brother Love, Yes, who's one of the brightest minds in the history of wrestling. He's booked more great storylines and been on cameras great characters
and than almost anybody. You know. He's almost up there with Hayman, who's a wrestling genius. But anyway, we started throwing names out and once they said Vader, I went on like, how does that not make sense to be Cranky, zip Code, Stachinos, Pops, Yes, so much.
Can you remember any of the other names they threw out to you at the as possible wrestlers?
Yeah, I mean they were throwing out all the top stars then that you know, like Sean Michaels was big then, and Jake Roberts, who we ended up using in the episode anyway, Ted Dibiassi, the Million Dollar Man, all that, but the only one that made sense. It was like one of those things where the casting gods are like, yeah, come on, it's asking god, this is it, this is it. It just was perfect.
Well.
This episode also falls into the very small window that is the Griff Hawkins era. What do you remember about Adam Scott, who we think really shined and what is kind of a tough acting predicament.
We all know the stuff. We all love Danny and we all know the stuff you know that went on. And I love Danny so much and his credity is so open. Yeah, seeing his life and his journey. When Adam Scott, you know, who was a relative unknown then became available, I mean just at that table, we're like, oh my gosh, this guy is magic.
Yeah, and you know it was.
He was what was great about the characters. He was the anti Harley correct, Yeah, the exact he was. You know, Harley was intimidation in very fifties, you know, happy Days, Leather and Griff was all cerebral.
And was that an Adam Scott choice or was that in the breakdown when you auditioned people.
Where did that distinction happen?
I'm pretty sure, again, you know, going back a fair amount of time, but I'm pretty sure we set out to create an opposite character, and then Adam brought so much of his own to it. And again one of those things where you know, first maybe not first table read, but first run through, Like you know, we're back there with our notes and scripts going, oh this kid's a star. Yeah, you know, my only you know, and looking at the episode, my only slightly cringe moment was the massage thing, having
the massage table. That was my only like, oh, I wish you know, back then it was fine, you know whatever, I guess, but now there's so many, you know, sexually exploitive connotations with massage. I would have gone right to the lobsters the boys coming back from the airport. That's
the only thing I maybe would change. But but Adam, I mean, he just was magical and his storyline in that episode, the fact that he had I'll use a word that would have aptly fit back then, rolodex, that his rolodex would have had both Bob Goulay and Yasmin belief in it. Who never did the episode.
By the way, I know she wasn't there.
This is what people don't know in watching back the episode when when she entered the gym, I was like, yeah, no, even back in ninety four, AI was happy. I know.
We I've never seen that interview where she says or I've never seen anything officially where she says she wasn't on the show, but we've heard it, yeah.
Heard it, and I've heard it too, I've never actually seen it.
Yeah, so maybe we need proof.
If you have a proof of her denying being on Boy Meets World, please send it to us.
I'd love that.
Actually, it is a good story.
It's one step away from one of you, like we'll going. I never did that show. I didn't. It was just it was bizarre and the beauty what I think again of that episode is part of our success and part of why you guys are here, you know, thirty plus years later and there's an audience loyal both new and old, is because of the wide range of stories in episodes.
Yeah, you know, well it's so interesting to go back to this one. You know now that we're like deep in season well now we're not deep, like just started season six, but like, uh, how much how many other characters there are, like just the sheer amount of guest stars and like storylines that have nothing to do with Eric or Sean or Corey, even like Corey has like his storyline, but his storyline involves so many other people.
It's like it's just not it's not something that we did after season four really like basically season two and three were we were still experimenting and handing off stuff. And part of it has to do, I think with the fact that we are in school so much like you keep. You know, it's like the fact that, like Ben and like Corey and Sean, even though we're like the drivers of a sort, we actually have a small part.
There's still so many other actors taking over scenes and characters, and it's like, right that part partly must have been because they were over eighteen and you had.
More honestly, writer, yes, sometimes we would go, let's give you know, David Combs or Wesley or whoever is time like yeah, but more than that, and again there was really a lot of Howard and I. We just thought, like the Bed and Breakfast, like bringing these crazy people and just it just we were a cout show. We were not like Girl Meets World, which is a Disney geared towards kids show. We were a family count show, right, and so we wanted also to you know, make sure
the parents were enjoying the show. And that's why sometimes we bring in these characters. But you know, in an episode like that, there were still organic moments to who everybody was. Will you as Eric were a loyal brother, sure, and even when you just walked in because somebody sold the ticket to see an idiot get beat.
Up, it's still discovered.
It was your brother you hop in the ring to take on this behemoth. Yeah, you in that particular episode Rider, strictly it was, you know, some comic relief. My favorite moment, of course, is starting the match, ringing the bell, going what does this?
What does this do?
Yeah?
That's great.
The thing I'm noticing more than ever now that we're, like Wriders said, we just started season six and now we're doing these throwback go backs.
What's the rhyme.
We're using behind rewind?
Thank you? Behind rewind episodes?
Shout out Blockbuster, they're out of business.
The first four seasons of Boy Mets World was four different sitcoms. Yeah, I mean season one and season two are two different sitcoms with the same cast. And so the more I'm watching them now and then going back, it's jarring to see how different.
Like you watch season two of Friends and season six of Friends, they're kind of the same.
It's there.
The characters are similar.
They've grown a bit, maybe summer dating where others aren't, but they're kind of the same. Show you go back and you watch season one A Boy Mets World in season five A Boy Mets World, it's two different shows.
Yeah, now, yes, And then you had the middle Howard and I came on season two. We left in the middle of season five.
Yeah, right right, So.
And there's a sensibility difference between Michael and us. Again, Michael's a genius. He's brilliant at what he does. And I learned a great deal. I'm I give Michael a lot of credit and interviews. I'm as good as I am working with young cast members on set with notes because I watched him. Sure, I didn't yell, you know, and I didn't become comfortable like I my style is
still my style. But I listened to him. He was very good at getting wonderful performance in a very you know, Michael came from theater and you know, studied theater he loves and that's how he approached it. And so I did learn a lot from from him. But yeah, it was a different show in the middle. The one I get the most, you know, constantly, is what happened to Derek Eric.
Yeah, you get that a lot like Eric is different than he was.
Partly Wilfredell's fault.
Yeah, I think that's true, and I'll tell you why.
Because you were a freaking comedically yeah, you were a young Jim Carrey. I was the first to say it. I said it one day. I don't remember the episode, but after a run through, I said, this guy's a young Jim Carrey. So we kept going. But the only thing we made sure to justify your character is nobody on the show had a bigger heart.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Eric, that was always the same.
And we'd throw you in with Tommy, and we'd throw you in with Bill in a scene, and and you know you that's how we balanced it while we pushed the envelope and you know yeah, I mean you know you were investing in memorabilia played by Jeff Manel baggy Bagwell of a guy who got hit in the head by a pitch bagwell.
That see, like, for me going back watching this episode again, it's it like, I know, first season and second season are very different, but Corey's actually kind of the same character as he was in the first season here in a way that now Corey is not I don't know, like this Cory who's sitting there going, you know, the jocks and how do I get, you know, he's sort of like this this Wise, like cracking wise, average guy who just wants to be noticed and like stand out
for some reason. Get girls like that. By season the end of season five, that Corey is so far gone and like I miss him.
Watching again, I was like, let's be clear, which Cory do you miss?
I miss the Wise cracking, like yeah, the Dennis the Menace, sort of like I don't know what life is all about, but I'm gonna. I know what I like and I don't know where I fit in.
Like that was universal. John Hughes Storytellers totally, totally, totally. Again, I'm not saying it because we left. He was an angry dude in the Yes, that's the things a lot of those episodes, and I there are episodes I've never seen, and I get on the writing side, and David Kendall says it all the time, there was no writer more Boy Meets World than Bluntman. I lived and read that show. I love that show. There are episodes I have not watched.
And again I'm not being it's very easy all these years later to go I would have I'm not saying I would have done better I'm saying I maybe would have done different because the Corey I would see, like you said, writer, he was just an angry guy, and that was the guy that Tapanga wanted to, you know, spend her life with, was a little I hope it's okay that I'm saying this.
We've talked about the red flags. We've talked about the red flags.
Well, I mean I think that it's it's it's there's so much comedy that came out of Corey being sort of neurotic and like anxious, and that ends up being the source of a lot of his humor. And then a lot of the drama comes from his his understanding of the universe and his understanding of reality, and he and to Panga and the struggles of that which becomes kind of angry, whereas like back here, he has no
clue what's going on. And I feel like Corey from week to week could find himself listening to Sean, listening to Eric, listening to mister Feenie, listening to mister Turner, and each one is going to spin him in a completely different direction. And that is like way, It's just more open, and it's kind of more fun. And I miss that. Yeah, I miss that. Corey.
You know, you were the ultimate. You were the audience surrogate in so many ways, the Sewan character. I mean, you were the audience's window into this young innocent trying his way. And then of course you had plenty of moments where you were finding your way. But you again
street smart, you know. However you grew up. You were a lot further advanced than Corey until you weren't right right, But you know again, one of the cool things about the Thriller in Phila, of course, named after the Thriller
in Manila in the seventies Muhammad Ali Joe Frazier. It still talked about to this day so frequently, and when I am backstage at a wrestling show, a young thirty year old wrestler will say, oh, my favorite episode had Vader on and all that, and when they you know, he had passed away, but they inducted him into the WWE Hall of Fame, and one of the clips was from our show really that they showed in front of thousands of people and on TV they you know, Invader's
induction of all his highlights there he has beaten Rick Flair and fighting Hul Cogan and all these matches, and there's the clip of him, you know, with all of you guys. And you know, one of the things, I don't know if you're going to ask me this, Danielle, I know you you talk question about my single favorite moment in that show, in that episode is okay?
I mean, go ahead, please, what's your favorite.
And most single favorite if you pick one.
You just had to pick one favorite moment from Thriller in Fellow, what would it be?
Mark, I don't have to tell you. So it's so simple and it's one of the greatest. Most if you just steal a screenshot and send it out on the internet, it goes crazy viral. People love it.
It's the fact that Bill Daniels William Daniels is acting with Vader, yeah yeah, and jumping over the jump over.
The ropes and then going face to face. The guy was in the Graduate. The guy was in seventeen seventy six. The guy is one of you know, doctor Mark Craig on sand The guy is one of the most accomplished actors in the book world. And he's acting with Vader to this behemoth wrestler and he went toe to toe with him. And just the screenshot of Bill Daniels face to face.
With for me is like the best.
I just look back on it so fondly, you know, it just it makes me really really happy.
We also noticed there's a jock in the episode named Savage. Was this a reference to Ben's last name?
Probably? Yeah, probably. And I'll tell you another person I'm glad you're talking about the jocks and stuff that made it work was Kelly Packard.
Oh, yes, she's great.
Most people would have, probably especially in the nineties, gone with you know, trophy esque, not necessarily you know, maybe stereotypical blonde or whatever. She was super smart and everything she did was on her terms. She knew who she was, and she knew what she wanted, and she played the heck out of it. So shout out Kelly Packard because she really really helped make that work and not fall in these tropes and traps of the nineties. Yeah.
Now, I don't know if we talked about this the last time you were here.
So Adam comes on, he's great, he kind of steals the episode. He's wonderful. Why then, was all of a sudden the bullies were kind of like, we're not gonna We're not gonna go with the bullies anymore. It was just like they were there and then they weren't.
Yeah, it's probably budget and stuff. It's okay, turn you know, it's funny like sometimes I look at a company like Disney and I'm like, I know what you're paying your CEOs. Can we not have the thugs? Right? You know, you got CEOs making twenty five thirty forty five million a year? Can we have the thugs what they cost?
Like?
And it never made sense. And so you know, looking back, simple regret's for me personally where Anthony for sure, even Alex, but we never could service him he deserved, right, Yeah, that was the problem and it was not intentional. It was not you know, we just for whatever reason. Again, as you guys all said, there were all of a sudden, our world just kept expanding.
So you don't remember with Tony like any conversations about oh now, we're definitely not bringing mister Turner back.
Like I mean, I just remember Michael coming down from a meeting with the you know, was the suits going, you know, no, like Tony's Tony's done just you know, like he would to me, he was so important because of that positive messaging of always walk with the motorcycle helmet in case you fall. That's a very important message for the kids. Always carry your out. Tony was great.
Always read your men too.
Yeah, because West Connecticut.
Because you don't know when it's going to be a pop quiz on the comic book.
Recent over here, What's going on with you?
One of the reasons we had such success was because you guys did create an off screen family and Tony was a big part of that family, and seeing him on set every day sucked. Yeah, And when I see him, like, you know, a few months ago at Rider's place, we did that little get together. We'll get together a party, no no, no.
No kidding.
So many wrestlers there.
I was invited to.
I know you were, Although why was security told? I don't out look at this guy.
Every time I go to Riders, I steal things.
It's fun seeing Tony there. I'm like, like, you know, and it wasn't me, but you just feel a little like remore going man. Of course, did you dirty? Yeah, yeah, it's in some way or the network did you dirty? Or the studio did. Like nobody could sit there and go, well, he's not that good. Nobody can look at him and say, well, he was a bad apple on the set and the opposite he popped little out of golf Like, there's not a bad word you could say about Tony and the
audience loved him. So what were what was that? And as far as you know Ethan and.
And Blake and Danny, I you know it's all just budget.
Then it's budget. I mean you know they they would have been great at the wedding. Yeah, yeah, And that's what you do. You know, when you have these milestone moments like we did on Girl, we had everybody there. The audience loves that. Man, that's their gift. It's our gift too, to be reunited. But when the audience sits there and goes, oh, there's those guys from season three and four who I love they're back. We owe our
audience those little gifts. Yeah, that was all part of you know, television and Will as a historian, you know that, I know, you know these moments of bringing characters back.
Do you remember when when Richie came back from from unhappy days where you don't think he's going to be there, and they go, I'm sorry, Richie couldn't come and he runs in and goes.
Cause I was waiting for the cab and it's like, oh my god, he's back.
Yeah.
These were huge moments in television.
Applause break, yep.
Yeah, absolutely, And now you.
Know, that kind of stuff is gone, and I do think everything is cyclical, and I do think those kind of things will come back. And they're all you know some multi cams, Danielle, you know as you've directed, you know, Tim Allen and all the other ones that they still work.
Don't they Yeah, yeah, they do.
The audience loves them.
I mean we have we're doing those in front of a live studio audience and they're right along for every moment.
Yeah. Because and the disconnect I guess in the exacts minds are that because of the Internet and social media, there's no real boundary between fans and stars. They see them every day online type thing. But you know, back then when multiicam was so huge, when an audience got to come in and sit there and see these people
up close and personal, that was magic for them. Yeah, you know, but now it's a little different because everybody feels like they know you guys because of the Internet and social.
I was going to ask you why do you think wrestlers make such good actors? From The Rock to Bautista to John Cena, list goes on, what do you think the correlation.
There is training? Every time they cut a promo, it's an acting class. Yeah, and they weren't good. You know. Andy Fickman, who is a director of producer I've been friends with for a long time, started off The Rock in a couple of his first movies and he you know, The Rock was not The Rock back then. It was like anything else. You know, you look back on your early work, or even me as a writer, I look back on my early work compared to my work now,
I'm like, there's a difference. So it's the same with these guys, the big guys like Sina. By the way, Sena has an incredible sense of comedic timing.
Oh yeah, yeah he does.
He's a funny dude. He is you know, Batista's who he is, and The Rock is an action figure come to life. But I think it's cutting their teeth on those promos day in day out, grabbing that mic and looking somebody in the eye and then looking into the eyes of the audience. Millions and millions of people and connecting with them. Yep, what what a better I mean, I couldn't think of a better acting class. So that would be my answer to that.
If you had to pick another wrestler, someone currently competing in the modern day, to appear on Boy Meets World, Now, who would.
You Pick's Live Morgan? Oh yeah, oh yeah, it's It's absolutely live. I'll tell you it's funny. I mostly am, you know, very like. My favorite wrestlers now are all on the female side. I love britt as we've talked about. Danielle.
Yeah, I love.
Mariah May you know, she's playing that sultry character and she plays the heck out of it Tony Storm. But for me, it's Live because if we're doing coming of age stories, Live is the girl next stoor that everybody, every boy, every girl is going to fall for. She's so likable, so accessible, she has such you know, and any era kind of look. You can put her in the fifties and buy it, you can put her in the.
So she's she's of the wrestling room absolutely.
And to further, you know, give Danielle her flowers. She has this incredibly larger than life, bubbly personality and you just want to hang out with her. You just want to sew twelve thirteen fourteen year old Live Morgan or sixteen for aar Matthews, you know whatever. All you guys would want to know this person, be this person. I think her likability meter is off the charts.
All right, I'm gonna ask you another hypothetical. It's season five, A Boy Meets World. You're working on it. You now take complete creative control season five onward?
What do you do? What would you do? So that's a great question. Now, I I think we left halfway through the season.
I think you guys left during the ski Lodge episode if I read correct, right, so right around there, so right around Corey Tapanga. We're not definitely getting married, we don't. Yeah, So so here this is these are real com I love this question.
This is amazing, right because, like I think I was more careful the first time I was on, but now it's like, you guys are all established. I had conversations in the room with all of us and Michael. I did not support them getting married. I did not.
I did not.
I just didn't think it was speaking to the generation of where we were going. If in the other direction, sure, right. You know my mom was twenty Yeah, my dad twenty five when they got married. They stayed another sixty five years.
But even that would have been two years after season five. Yeah, I mean that's what I mean, Like you're talking that even that young, get getting married young still doesn't necessarily mean eighteen.
So and again it's Michael show and his belief of love and even in his own personal you know, journey with his wonderful wife. They have hiccups along the way, but.
That was your one of your driving creative things. Should not have Corey Tapanga like destined forever it should be, But you wanted to Panga still be on the show. You just wanted it to be.
If you want to try to kick me off the show, or did you.
Get I get rid of that Danielle fishery my dog?
Oh of course I think that my reality. You know, Michael, once he got you guys together, he knew he wanted to marry you guys. He believed in destiny, he believed in one love, he believed in all that stuff. I didn't. And again, as forward thinking, and I don't know what am I four years younger than Michael? I don't know those five years whatever. I was the baby in the room.
But I just saw where we were going, and you know, as society and I even with my own kids, Kristin and I and we've been divorced for ten plus years now, but you know, back when I was a kid, and Michael has a very you know, maybe has a more idealistic, old fashioned way because of how he grew up. Like there were I didn't with our kids. We didn't say at seventeen, you have to know what you want to do for the rest of your life. You're going to college to study that, then you will get a job
in that. We didn't raise our kids like that. That's how I was raised. So for me also again nothing wrong, I want to be very clear, nothing wrong with according to pet getting married. That was Michael's wish and he executed it. And I would say, what would you say, more than half the fan base supports it, right, Yeah, I don't know.
Yeah, they did a vote back in the day of should they or shouldn't they? And should they want?
Yeah?
So yeah, they asked the audience.
Yeah, and that's great. And but I I I again saw moving a different way, less pressure on kids to know what they want to do less pressure on kids to have to declare their profession when they leave freaking high school. And that's you know, also and the marriage thing aside. Now I'm talking about the kids, and back in the day, the pressure, I think that's also partly a root of a lot of mental health issues in
young people. It was that incredible pressure at seventeen eighteen years old to know what the heck you're doing for the rest of your life.
So that's interesting. So you're actually taking what I think is a very specific example like the Cory Tapanga love destiny marriage thing, but you're expanding it to all of our characters in a way, and all of our world, like the Boy Meets World world got very set season five onward as far as like these characters are these type of people doing this type of thing, and you're advocating for more of a sort of general openness about where yeah, growth like keeping basically we kind of came
of age by season five and then just played out as those characters as opposed to keeping it.
Yeah, and what's the reality. You know, I'm sixty four years old. I'm not done learning, right, I'm not done changing, I'm not done rediscovering things that make me truly happy and experiencing those things. So in my view, I just think that you know, we all as humans continue to grow, continue to evolve, continue to make we are never done coming of age. And that's the truth. We're never done
coming of age. You know there are, which is why like movies like The Big Chill back in the day, I loved it was a bunch of adults coming of age.
Right, you know, around the death of a dear friend Kevin Costner's arm.
I want to ask you about my yearbook quote in the episode. Are you familiar with the gestalt prayer? A gestalt prayer? Have you ever heard of that?
No? Okay, but I'm laughing because obviously you know I that's not me, not from you, I know. I mean, you guys know me well enough to know Bluckman not going beautiful.
So the official quote from Tapanga is I do my thing and you do your thing.
I am you.
I am I, and you are you.
If in the end we end up together, it's beautiful. And I never knew where that came from or had never just thought it was from our show. And then a very smart listener revealed that it's actually from something called a Gestalt prayer.
More like, is it like, let me pull up the official Gestalt prayer because it's.
The way you look for writer, you can use that with your poet wrestling character.
Yeah, Gstal Prayer by Fritz Pearls. I do my thing and you do your thing.
I am not in this world to live up to your expectations and you are not in this world to live up to mine.
Go to you are you and I am I? And if by chance we find each other, it's beautiful.
If not, don't have to get married.
It can't be helped.
Yes, so healthy watching this episode when we have that moment, Danielle, Like, I know we talked about the first time when when when Corey and when Sean and Topanga have the moment at Chubby's where he's like, oh, you like him? It is so fun because it's like, oh, they're discovering Corey and Topanga, they're discovering this relationship and there's there's energy there, and there's like real energy between the two of us. And then the ending where you read this beautiful quote
also has energy. It's like, oh my god, there's the potential and I just I miss that I missed the like potential to be something.
And potential and unknowing and mystery and evolution for destiny gotta be let's get it.
Doesn't matter that it's toxic stage.
Like what was being shown on camera with both of you, I know, run away, make every viewer who is married go. I think we should maybe rethink this. If we're gonna espouse destiny and one true love, there should have been a little the balance should have been a little more magic, right and angry Cory, who is basically telling the world and you, I don't really want this, right, I don't know again.
Life is supposed to be miserable. Yeah, you can stay miserable.
Wonderful things, women throwing yourselves themselves.
It's just a world of temptation because you're Corey.
You're the kid who just wants to be someone but is also somehow the most popular kid that's ever walked the hallways of John Adamson and backge.
My parents, my parents' generation and before. How many people got married and had kids because that's what you do.
Yep, of course, that's what you're supposed to do, and stayed in pretty unhealthy marriages. A lot of them, not everyone, of course, but some unhealthy marriages because you just this is it.
You're married now? Yeah, write it out.
So, speaking of unhealthy marriages, we found must Gang. No, we recently interviewed your writing partner, Howard Busgang. The episode has not aired yet, but we did talk to him, and one of the things that was so interesting is like we didn't actually talk to him that much back in the day, Like he was so much more subdued and like behind the scenes than you, because like you would just hang.
Out with us.
You're always talking to me. Yeah, we talk about music, we talk about movies, like everything, whereas with bus Gang we didn't get So tell us about that relationship. What was it like working with him? What was the dynamic? How did because you were much more present to us, but talking to him, he's hysterical. We know that he must have brought so much the to the relationship and to the writing. So how did that work out for you?
Great question? Did not know that it would be asked, but it so. Howard and I know each other since nineteen seventy nine.
Oh wow, we grew up.
Two streets away from each other, two streets and are.
You proud Americans, so we can continue talking with you.
You grew up well, I was born in Jersey, so I'm an actual American. I'm not a Canadian who was hoping that my country gets swallowed up by lords right in the Ultimate pac Man walka waka waka waka.
No, let's goot shot, let's take it.
But so Howard and I became friends, and then it was before Boy Meets World. Danny Jacobson a big show run her. He had a show, he had two shows. He came from the home improvement camp, but he had two shows, Good Advice and Matt About You. And had a friend who was an assistant at Sony TriStar, who said they want to hire a team. I said, well, I'm not a team. I write alone. And she said, I can probably say you'll have a good chance of
getting this gig if you're a team. I spoke to Howard and said, hey, you know you want to do this, and we went for the meeting. Here's the funny story with that. We go in meet Danny Jacobson, notorious, super talented guy, but his focuses were back in the day were two things, the betting form, horses and pot. We walk into a cloud of smoke. He goes, you seem normal. He hands us two VHS tapes. Go watch these two shows, which ever one you want. I read your script. It's great.
Whichever one you want, you could do, so we go watch. Good Advice was Shelley Long, the late Treat Williams, George Weiner, Juliet Lewis's brother, Lightfield Lewis. Estelle Harris later played George's mom like this incredible cast, and the concept was simple. She was a marriage therapist and Treat Williams character was a divorce attorney and they shared office space, so clearly they were going to have the same dance. We go, this show is going to run for ten years.
And the others mad about you.
The other was mad about you that we said too. Sonyaid no to mad about you, like what Good Advice ran one or two years. But so Howard and I are. Our dynamic was as you said, we were very different both personally and professionally. And what was under deniable is our work was really good, but we were a broken marriage. We were Correoto and we like you guys don't know this, but normally, normally the norm was writing teams share an office.
By year three, Michael went to Karen McCain and said, get them their own offices.
How long were you guys a team.
Good Advice through ninety eight or ninety nine grown Ups with Juliel? I know, you guys had Julil White on and we did his show, so I'd say about eight nine years and that was it. Like people think that we were together forever. The work was always really good and the combination worked, and but you know, personally, it was just hard for both of us. Were very different. Love sports, you know, he loves Delhi.
Yeah, he's going to name a sandwich after me, hopefully if I keep if I keep bugging about it, that's the plans.
The make up for the wrestling, no names.
I want my own sandwich.
Yeah yeah, person next to Danielle Brisket sandwich works for me. But anyway, you know, we had a really great eight nine ten year run working together. He's super, super talented and I wish him nothing, but you know, love and success and happiness.
Well, Mark, you were an integral part, as was Howard of Boy Meets World, and it.
Is now a show. As writer mentioned, we've been watching. We've watched straight through five.
Seasons and we see your mark, we feel your mark, and we love you, Mark, love so much. Thank you so much for coming back to reminisce with us and for talking about Boy Meets World. Without you, they're really there is no Boy Meets World. So thank you so much for your contributions over those years. And it's always great to have you.
And shout out to all the fans, and thanks for supporting these guys. They deserve it.
Yeah, thank thank you Mark. Good to see you Mark.
Not soon by gosh.
I don't obviously we didn't know any of the backstory, but I wonder, like, knowing both of them, I still find it hard to believe they needed separate offices, you know, like like I wonder what it was about even just being so different that like.
They couldn't be in this, they couldn't share an office.
Can you even imagine Howard raising his voice?
Like even just the.
Outward conflict, I think it would probably just be like they would get on each other's nerves. Yeah, we got to take a break.
I mean, you know, but is there anybody who wouldn't get on someone anybody who wouldn't get on someone else's nerves?
If you're like sharing an office.
Twenty four and that writing staff there sometimes till three o'clock in the morning. They're doing everything. They're doing five or six scripts this season. I mean that's it's a lot of work. It's a to I mean, that's why it's magical when it when it works. Yeah, like when it when it's good, it's good.
I've only known I've only known a few writers who are like just in love with their room, you know who. They were so happy most of the time. It's a lot of a lot of anxiety, a lot of competition, a lot of backstabbing. Less so nowadays. But I feel like, especially back in the day, it was it was all like just trying to get your name on that script, trying to get your joke in.
And and that's a man forget. If you were a woman, it was a if you're even in there. It's an entirely different worlds.
I think nowadays it is. I think it's you know, it's more accepting, it's more like of a safe space. But I also know that COVID took a big you know, it had a huge effect. Everybody was sort of suddenly having like zoom meeting writing rooms, and like, I think it's gone back in person a lot more. But it's a it's a it's an interesting culture. I've never really experienced it for firsthand, I know me neither.
No mean, I've never I've never been in it. But yeah, you didn't like it at all.
But if you think about what makes a really good writer's room, you're gonna need a lot of very unique povs. You're gonna want different people with different povs and different experiences.
And then you think skill sets and.
Different skill sets and different preferences and different and you know, maybe kind of their own niche, and so you're going to have people that are really different from you and that you know, Yeah, if you think about spending every single day, hours on end, you're gonna get annoyed.
You're just it's going to it's gonna happen.
I think it's also always depends too on the leadership in the room. I think evers leading the room is gonna is going to dictate what type of room it is.
Yeah.
So I mean when we had Barbie on, Barbie was talking about you know how she's like, oh my god, and one of the last shows I want it was all women, and I was one of the people in charge and it was the greatest thing in the world.
I mean, you just you never know. It's it's all about who's kind of leading the room too. I think that's true.
Yeah, well, thank you all for joining us for this episode of Podmeets World. As always, you can follow us on Instagram pod Meets World Show. You can send us your emails Podmeets World Show at gmail dot com.
And we have merch fade in interior booth continuous, Danielle says, and we have merch cut to Will who says March writer and Danielle fake laugh, fade.
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We love you all, pod dismissed.
Podmeets World is nheart podcast producer and hosted by Danielle Fischel, Wilfordell and Ryder Strong. Executive producers Jensen Karp and Amy Sugarman. Executive in charge of production, Danielle Romo, producer and editor, Tara sudbachsch producer, Maddie Moore, engineer and Boy Meets World super fan Easton Allen. Our theme song is by Kyle Morton of Typhoon, and you can follow us on Instagram at podmeets World Show, or email us at podmeets Worldshow at gmail dot com.