E231: When Life Gets Heavy (A Personal Update)

I also want to say like you have really like The way that I've seen you like taking care of my dad and my mom It's just been really, really beautiful to watch. Yeah, I love them so much. I know you do. Hello and welcome to the Pillow Talks podcast. We're your hosts, Vanessa and Xander Marin. I'm a sex therapist with over 20 years of experience. And I'm just a regular dude.

We share the ups and downs in our relationship while giving you step-by-step techniques for improving yours. Make sure you subscribe for your weekly double date full of totally doable sex tips, practical relationship advice. hilarious and honest stories of what really goes on behind closed bedroom doors, and so much more. It's the sex education you wish you'd had. Okay. I'm a little...

Nervous recording this episode. Tell me more. I kind of don't really want to, to be totally honest with you. You got a case of the fuckets? So we're doing a personal update. uh in this week's episode um We've only done a couple of these really like over the years, but life has really been life in lately. And we've been sharing about it on Instagram. If you're not following us, we're at Vanessa and Xander. We've been sharing a bit. Yeah, we've been sharing a bit, but.

We haven't shared, like, the full story. And Instagram is always challenging because it's so... Like short snippets. Yeah. And people come and go. Yeah, exactly. So like I'll share something. one day and then reference it like a few days later and then we'll get a million dms like what are you talking about wait what's going on i missed it so it's just it's hard it's disjointed that's the word i was looking for it's really disjointed and hard to um share there so i i figured like

Let's just put it all together in a podcast episode and kind of have it all in one place. But now I'm like, why did we decide to do this? I don't want to do it. We decided to do this because it's... I mean, it's good for us to talk about what's going on. And I think that it's also good for other people to hear because people can relate like.

people have stuff that is happening in their lives right now people have things that will be happening in their lives and I think that we don't have a lot of there's not a lot of good role models i'm not trying to be like we're perfect role models but there's just not a lot of good examples out there of couples talking openly about how they handle the couple part of their relationship and their lives when all kinds of other shit is going on yeah

Because most of us just take our relationships for granted when shit hits the fan. And it's like, oh, yeah, well, that thing is just there. I can take my foot off the gas. I can put my foot on the brake. I can close the door on this for months at a time. Um, and it's just going to be there, right? Like my partner's going to understand without me ever saying anything about it. Cause they can read my mind. No, they can't.

But yeah, I think it's important to be able to talk about this kind of stuff because... I mean, I hope this isn't a spoiler, but like we have a lot of shit going on. And I think our relationship's in a really good place because we've been doing a really good job. I'm so proud of us. I'm really proud of us too. And yeah, we're keeping the fire going in a way that most people wouldn't.

And in a way that we haven't in the past in situations like this. And I can really only, the only thing I can really credit to that is we're talking about it more. And so this is us just practicing what we preach.

okay shall we get into it yeah okay well so first we have to like share the backstory of what is going on um which is that my dad is dealing with a really, really serious health situation right now. My dad has stage four cancer. And this all happened very... quickly there's backstory but like the stage four element of it was kind of an overnight development well i'm gonna i'll share the backstory so my dad was first diagnosed with

cancer about a year and a half bladder cancer it was a low grade it was just within his bladder and he had this treatment called bcg um it successfully treated the cancer it was not like a pleasant journey but overall it was like i was actually just shocked by how straightforward it was like and it was one of those things where multiple people doctors and also like you know we shared about this on

on social media on this podcast and so many people being like oh this is like as crazy as it sounds to say this like this is like the best cancer that you can get this is like the best If you're going to deal with this, this is the best situation to have. It's caught early. There's really, really super effective treatments. Most people achieve full remission. It's a blip. It's a blip on the radar.

Yeah, so that was a year and a half ago. So then earlier this year, we didn't know it at the time, but found out later that he was dealing with, he was having some symptoms. And it unfortunately took a while. to get in to the doctor and took a lot of like having to advocate for himself and my mom having to advocate for him to like actually get these symptoms like really checked out, which.

over going through this whole thing there's also this thread of like how much the medical system fucking sucks and how much you have to advocate for yourself or have somebody to advocate for you it's just been maddening um it just kills me like looking back now like What could have happened if he got in sooner? Like, there's just so many, so many what ifs.

Okay, so they ran a bunch of tests. He gets a message from his doctor at like 10 o'clock at night saying, we think that the cancer could be back. Go to the ER immediately. or he didn't get it until the morning after he was sleeping he received it received it at night got it in the morning and it was like you know the doctor saying go to the er immediately so he woke up and it was like this really stressful like holy i gotta go into the er so they got him into the er

They're running a bunch more tests. They end up deciding to do a procedure to like see if they can, you know, go in and figure out what's going on. So they have this procedure done. It was also impacting his kidneys. So they were. wanted to like also put some stents into his kidneys into the ureters to help the kidneys function better

So they do this procedure. It's a little scary because it's like all happening so quickly. And his doctor tells us like, OK, we went in there. We found a mass. We biopsied it. We're going to test it. But I would be shocked if this.

is cancer like it does not look like cancer it looks like like in rare cases from the bcg treatment it can irritate the walls of the bladder and like create these growths so we're like okay it's fine it's not cancer like the it was very definitive the doctor was like i would be shocked if this came back as cancer

So he goes through this procedure. You know, it's a procedure. It's still like difficult to recover from. Yeah, he was in the hospital for like a day or two. Yeah. So then a few days later, I get the call from the doctor. I'm so sorry. It actually is cancer. And the doctor said, this is looking...

It's looking pretty aggressive. We think it's gone through the walls of the bladder. And that's like a big deal with bladder cancer. Like when the cancer is just within the bladder, it's a lot easier to treat when it starts to go through the muscle walls of the bladder.

That means it's more aggressive. It's more difficult to treat because now you're like getting into muscle and all that. It's spreadable. Yeah. So at that point, they start saying, okay, there's two treatment options. We can fully remove the bladder. which is a gnarly surgery, like months of recovery, really intense, like at least a week in the hospital. You'll never pee again. Yeah, he'd have to have a bag on the outside of his body for the rest of his life.

Or they can do the immunotherapy and chemotherapy route, which they were worried initially, like, you know, it might not work fast enough to like contain. the growth of this cancer so we're trying you know we're going back and forth what's the best solution what's the best thing to do what do we do um and so in the meantime he gets a pet scan which is supposed to show you where the cancer is currently located

And I also have to give this caveat as I'm going through this that I'm not a medical doctor. Neither am I. Yeah, neither of us are. We're giving our retellings, but this is all very confusing. And we don't know all the full details. So...

The PET scan comes back showing that the cancer is just located within the bladder. So we're like celebrating like, oh my God, this is so much better. We had thought, you know, the doctor thought, I think it's gone through the walls, which makes it more serious. But now we're getting confirmation. It's just within the...

bladder it's not as serious so we're like celebrating this is so great such a relief and so they decide let's do the surgical route let's just get the whole thing out take care of it once and for all we're done with it He can't come back if he doesn't have a bladder anymore. So my dad gets on board emotionally with the idea of doing this really gnarly surgery of having a bag outside his body. That was a whole process. It was a whole process.

But we're like, OK, this is the right solution. This is what we got to do. um the surgery had to take place in la fortunately he got this connection to be seen at this incredible hospital in la but like you know we live in santa barbara 90 minutes away so we had this whole setup of like we rented an airbnb we had this whole schedule of who's coming

down to support on different days. Yeah, we need to be down there for like one to two weeks. He's going to be in the hospital for a week. They recommended having a place for him to be there for the next week once he's discharged because he's still going to be needing to see the doctors. So we start the surgery. I went down there with my brother and my cousin to be with my mom.

We start the surgery. The four of us leave the hospital. We're going to get breakfast. And the surgeons had told us like, OK, we're going to start the surgery. um we'll give you a call in a couple of hours we kind of like take a midway break and so my my family and i were sitting you know finishing breakfast up we're actually like in really good spirits my dad had been in great spirits

And, you know, just like feeling like, okay, we're on the path, we're getting started. And so we're just finishing up and my mom's phone rings. And I think instantly all of us in that moment just knew like,

it's only been like 45 minutes like this is not good to be getting a call this soon and so we like rush out of the restaurant um We're just in the parking lot, some random parking lot, and the doctor says, hey, I started the surgery, I opened him up, and I can see that the cancer has spread a lot. It's in his stomach.

It's, you know, all around like his pelvic floor area. It's, you know, like everywhere. And it's in his lymph nodes. And the lymph nodes are really bad because your lymph system goes throughout your entire body. And, you know, it's very easy for the cancer to just spread everywhere once it gets into the lymph nodes. So he said, like, you know, this...

I can't continue with the surgery. We have to close him up and just stop here. I can't remove. It doesn't make sense to do the surgery because I can't remove all the cancer surgically. Now his only option is to do immunotherapy. And if we were to do the surgery, he wouldn't be able to start immunotherapy. Yeah, for months. Yeah, that was just like crushing, crushing news.

And so confusing. Like, how did we get this? You know, it's just been this back and forth. Like, it's just in the bladder. No, it's outside the bladder. No, it's just in the bladder. No, it's everywhere. Like, it just is such a fucking roller coaster. And yeah, so we... You know, then have to like talk to the doctor more. And he says, you know, it's stage four cancer. It's very aggressive. It's spread a lot of different places. And, you know, really the only hope for.

treatment is this immunotherapy which works really well for about 30 to 40 percent of people and I asked him like okay but what about the 60 to 70 percent um and he said like gave us a timeline like a life expectancy that I'm not going to repeat because I just I refuse to accept it and I don't even want to like put that energy out there but I'll just say it was like extremely short and just absolutely crushing to hear that um so then we had to like oh yeah I mean to like wake my dad up um

And he was so confused, you know, because here he was thinking he was about, you know, having an eight, like an eight hour surgery. When I doubt he even had a conception of time. You're waking up and you're thinking, oh, I'm coming. I'm.

coming out the other end you're you know you're anesthetized you have no idea how long it's been yeah um it's not like sleeping at night where you can tell oh i have not been asleep for very long like you're coming out of it assuming it's over Yeah, just he was really confused and having to like explain to him like you didn't actually have the surgery and it's actually way worse than we thought was just.

horrific like really truly truly horrific yeah i can't imagine i mean i had serious surgery one time where i was fully under and like the i mean my memory of those first couple hours coming out of it are pretty hazy because you're really drugged and it's confusing it's confusing enough when you have a successful surgery it's just like what is going on here and trying to have serious things explained to you just seems so hard yeah

so that was that was a real low um just seeing him like in that state just like so fragile and tender and yeah just having this like absolutely horrible horrible prognosis um it was really really hard and then we just had to like go home which was so like we just had this plan to be down in LA for so long and then

we like it on it honestly like it felt like the the hospital was just like okay please get out of here now and i was like oh my god like he's he's been cut open eight times like yeah the surgery didn't You know go through but I don't know it was really it was really weird to just like go home after that I bet you didn't know that a pillowcase could be the reason why your skin has blemishes and your hair is breaking.

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Then the plan became, we've got to start immunotherapy. And the surgeon was like, he needs to start it immediately. Every day counts. This is really crucial. And then the next part of the journey became getting the fucking immunotherapy scheduled, which in the end, he just had his first treatment yesterday. It took three and a half weeks.

which makes me so angry, so angry. And like some of it is, I understand like, you know, they had to run blood work, of course, but it was also like getting approval from his insurance. And it also took like... My mom, two solid weeks of calling the center that he's doing the therapy at like every single day because.

there's only one person who does the scheduling and oh they're not there and oh you have to leave a message but they never return your call and it was honestly crazy like really crazy making we were all like on the truly on the verge of losing it by the time that they finally made the appointment. Yeah, and...

It also took him a really long time to recover just from the aborted surgery. And so it was like, you know, he had some appointments there, but it was like, we got to get everything approved by the insurance. We also need to make sure that he's recovered. from being cut open eight times and being pumped full of a bunch of gas in preparation for surgery and all this stuff. And that was taking him a long time. We couldn't predict, oh, when is he going to be...

feeling up for now chemotherapy and immunotherapy. Um, it was, it was like so hard to thread that needle, but I mean, Yeah. All in all, that took him a long time. So it ended up being that he's getting it somewhat soon after he was able to. Maybe they could have started like a week ago.

The recovery was gnarly, you know, even though I guess I think all of us had in our heads like, oh, he didn't have the surgery, but it took him, yeah, like two solid weeks to recover. He was in so much pain. He was. like exhausted nauseous couldn't eat really weak and he needed like round the clock care and yeah to like just go from Him walking around being fine to all of a sudden needing round-the-clock care was a really, really big shift.

and my mom is a my mom's a fucking beast my mom is the strongest person i know she is excellent in a crisis she was born like She was made to be the person you want in your corner in a crisis. Like she is tough as nails. But this has also been really challenging for her because it's making her realize like.

She can't do it all either. Like my dad needed help physically getting up and down, you know, out of bed, off the sofa. And my mom's 4'11", you know, and like she couldn't do it. So that was really scary. And yeah, just helping like each of them are going through their own journey of him. Like, yeah, you know, having doing the recovery and my mom trying her best to support him and also like.

still life's going on she has work that she's supposed to do there's you know other stuff going on it's just you know yeah to get thrust into the situation where it's like holy shit like there's so much time and attention that it's really a full-time job and not only like the physical care of him but also keeping track of like A million different appointments, medications, supplements, different doctors, changing follow ups, changing his diet. We also ended up.

reaching out to a woman that we know who specializes in more like holistic treatments to cancer because we just you know when when I heard that prognosis I was like fuck this Like, yes, we want to go the Western way and like do, you know, the best that science has to offer. But like, we also need to find other treatments to support the body the best way that you can.

So we got a lot of ideas from her and we're still in the midst of like doing a bunch of testing and figuring out like a more integrative plan for him. But there's, you know, yeah, it's like a ton of different doctors that we're coordinating with. Different, you know, he needs to do sauna. He needs to do red light therapy. He needs to be eating fermented foods. He needs to go on walk. He needs to do meditations, like all this different stuff.

So it's truly a full time job. And, you know, we're so lucky in my family that we have, you know, my tough as nails mom. I have two siblings. We're all in town. You know, we like my sister and I have partners who are here, too. My cousin is super supportive. Like he has an army of people around to help support. But like still, it's so much work.

I think that takes us up to basically where we are now. He had his first treatment yesterday, which unfortunately, like, was pretty hard. Yeah, unexpectedly challenging. We'd heard from a lot of people, like... It's not so bad. He'll be tired, but it's not too bad. Yeah, this specific immunotherapy chemo combination. I know that in general, I think chemo is pretty rough, but this specific.

combination and i don't even know that much about how they do it but you know it's basically a mix he does like one week of a mix of immunotherapy drug and some amount of chemo then he does the next week he does one infusion of just chemo then he gets a week off and it's just this three-week cycle over and over for a long time yeah so he was

in the middle of getting the chemo part of the infusion when he just started feeling like extreme pain. And they ended up stopping the treatment. Yeah, I think like dropping blood pressure too. Yeah. which apparently happens for like just a tiny percentage of people. So they had to stop the treatment and then have this like horrible decision of what do you do? Do you...

not finish the treatment so he doesn't have to be in pain, but then he's not getting this life-saving treatment? Or do you continue the treatment, but he's in pain? Yeah, because the pain thing like that.

Paint the pain as a side effect to this treatment. It is It's something like it can it's not it's not that it's pain because the treatment is actually hurting you it's that the treatment can cause any other pain that you had from any other thing like you know he's you know still probably internally somewhat recovering from the surgery that he had a couple of weeks before or whatever, like it can basically exacerbate any kind of like latent issues already.

inside of you so it's like yeah can you you know it's you know in most in most situations it's like oh my god this thing that you're doing to me is really hurting me so you got to stop because the thing is bad and it's not in this case it's not that it's like oh yeah no like the thing itself is actually really good it's causing pain from something else that is temporary and will stop when this is over but it's like can we keep doing it yeah

So he did end up deciding to finish out the treatment. It was really tough. But yeah, he was able to finish it. So now, you know, and then it just brings up anxiety for next time of like, is it going to be the same pain or is it going to be OK? He's feeling better today. But it's just, yeah, it's a lot. So, I mean, overall, I'm really proud of him for how he's managing this. This is so scary. It's so, so, so scary.

All things considered, he's been in pretty good spirits. He's really committed to... doing everything he can. He's really trying to take like his best of care of himself as he can. And he's got a lot of things going for him. You know, he has so much support. He has a lot to live for, you know, his first grandkid. is on the way just a few months so yeah i'm proud of him for just like riding the waves um he's been super emotional but he's just like letting himself feel that and just

moving the energy. I mean, that's all we can do. He's gotten really into meditation. Very into meditation, which I love. Yeah, guided meditations, which he's just been. Well, Joe Dispenza. Yeah. His buddy Joe. Yeah, so now ahead of him is, it'll be about six months of this treatment, and then they have to reassess and see, like, did it work? Is he one of that lucky, like, 30 to 40 percent?

And if it doesn't work, you know, maybe hopefully this other alternative treatments that we're doing at the same time will help. I mean, what we did find out later was I think that. The way that the doctor, that surgeon had originally described things was maybe not entirely correct. I think what we've since found out is that the 30 to 40% number is 30, 40% of people that do this.

immunotherapy chemo combination achieve full remission which is incredible like that is that is an absolute miracle that like three to four out of ten people can be can't totally cancer free from this treatment and that many of the other people that are not in that 30 to 40 group see some kind of improvement just not full remission and so in this case

If there is an improvement to the extent, even if there's an improvement to the extent where then he could have a surgical procedure where like where the cancer is isolated to certain areas that could be surgically removed, then that's still a great outcome because then you can.

essentially the hope is that you can achieve full remission surgically yeah um and also you know on top of that with what's challenging with so many of these you know numbers out there you know about like prognoses for various cancers and for various cancer drugs is that yeah you're looking at

you know, thousands and thousands of people and you don't have any information on what else they are doing to support themselves emotionally and physically. So, yeah, like there's no way to know, you know, are they like. Are they following all the, you know, the best research when it comes to like what their diet is in terms of all these other things that you can do to support yourself or not. And so, you know, the hope is, is that, you know, we can.

move the needle in the direction, you know, that we can try to, you know, kind of put our thumb on the scale a bit by doing everything we can that seems to also improve chances. And I just want to I just want to throw out there like for anybody who's, you know, if they're on a cancer journey or their loved one is like, I do highly recommend looking into like alternative and holistic treatments to like.

I mean, I love Western medicine. I love science. There's so many incredible things that we have been able to achieve. And like. There's also so many other things that maybe we don't have the same amount of science or research behind it, but that are like equally effective and that really look at treating the whole body, not just like. trying to kill cancer cells like the you know the the woman that um you know who we've spoken to um

her whole thing is she's like, you know, cancer doesn't happen randomly. Like it happens for a reason. And we have to understand what is going on in your unique system that allowed the cancer to develop in the first place and is letting the cancer continue to flourish. And there's this book that I was reading about like a like more holistic approach to cancer. And I looked at the part it was talking about bladder cancer in particular. And it talked about specific.

things that led to bladder cancer. And one of them is there are specific chemicals that my dad was exposed to every single day in his line of work. And I don't know why it just it just struck me. I was like, holy shit.

Yeah, I think we've, in the Western perspective, we've come to think of cancer as just like kind of this like... random thing yeah we deal with it when it happens yeah but i'm like no literally like this exact chemical that my dad was exposed to every single day for 40 years this chemical has been tied to this specific kind of cancer like yeah it increases the chances of you getting it and day after day after day you're you know every day slowly increasing those chances okay

So there's so much more to this, so much more to the story that I could share. But let's let's kind of talk a little bit more about how we're navigating it, like personally, as a couple, all of that. There are a couple of things for me personally, what I've been doing. The number one thing is truly just making the space for everything. Like.

health issues, you know, and this is also, this is the first of, you know, any of our parents who's gotten sick. So that's the other scary thing too, is I'm like, oh my god we're just starting this yeah well this is one of four um Yeah, but it brings up a lot of emotions. And for me, just the most important thing, like the biggest piece of advice that I could give to anyone else going through something similar is like, allow yourself to feel.

all of the things because they all make sense and when we fight against our feelings or try to get ourselves not to feel them they just those feelings get so much stronger and when i just let myself feel everything I'm just, I'm moving through it. That's the best way I can describe it. Like we're just, we're moving through it. We're on a fucking roller coaster and I'm just letting myself be on the ride. Well, I mean, and we talk about this.

unrelated to this topic we talk about you know with feelings that it gets so easy with feelings whether it's things that are coming up in our relationship about our sex life or whatever, we talk about how it's so easy to be like, oh, that's too much. I can't deal with it. I'm going to try to not feel that thing. But the research actually shows that when you truly allow yourself to actually let in.

an emotion a feeling actually feel it that we tend to actually process it fairly quickly or actually what you said actually like four times no we in we indeed process it fairly quickly Yeah, I mean, the number is kind of crazy. Was it like within 90 seconds or something like that? Now, in this case, you have a lot of similar but slightly different emotions. It's not like, oh, I just let myself feel really intensely for 90 seconds.

it's done it's a whole lot it's a whole cascade of things but i think you know that that just gets back to that where it's like yeah trying to be like oh i can't deal with this right now i gotta be strong for my family or i gotta be strong for my dad or i'll deal with that later i think that is what ends up

at you know kind of like raising the temperature kind of you know i'm you're thinking of like a kettle or like a pressure cooker it's literally you're like closing the pressure cooker and the temperature's going up and it's starting to scream um and you know pressure builds eventually it's going to release yeah so it's better to just try to be releasing that pressure all the time that's just going you know staying on the roller coaster yeah

I've also just been really doubling down on my self-care. For me, the number one thing has been exercise. I'm really, really grateful that I have an exercise routine. It's such a big part of my physical and mental well-being. And it's really tempting in times of crisis to like abandon all of that stuff and like, oh, I feel like there's, you know.

better ways that i could be spending my time or like i just don't feel like doing it but i am making myself stick to my routine and i'm so glad for that like exercise truly keeps me sane I need to be doing it. So just making sure I do it. I've been sleeping more. I've been sleeping like I'm usually I'm an eight hours gal. I've been sleeping like nine hours a night and I'm just like, OK, my body just needs more sleep.

That's okay. Meditation and visualization and just like journaling to just writing, letting myself write down like thoughts and feelings, you know, what I'm going through, like. All those things. It's the stuff that everybody knows. They're obvious, but a lot of us like don't actually do them. But I'm just really like pushing myself to do those things and to remind myself like. I need to take care of myself in this situation too. It doesn't help to, you know, be a...

total self-sacrificer or a martyr or anything like that. Like I got to make sure my cup stays full so that I can truly be there for my dad. Yeah. So I know a lot of people might think, oh my God, all that stuff just takes so much time. It's literally taking time away from. time that I could be spending.

Like with, with my loved one who might have limited time. Right. And I can see how tempting it is to be like, oh no, I'm, I'm not going to do any of this stuff because I need to devote a hundred percent of my time to this person. I mean, my question to you is like, what good is it spending all your time with someone? Because your time is limited if you're going to be miserable. Yeah.

that whole time you like the the person that you're trying to show up for can feel that you can feel that and it's like would you rather spend a bit less time but have that but but have you be as happy as possible right like that's your dad your dad doesn't want a bunch of you know downers hanging out with him right like he wants like whether his time is limited or not he wants you know what's going to be most valuable to him is like

fun and laughter and joy and if we don't show up for ourselves like you can't have that stuff yeah sure you could fake it but everyone can tell when you're faking that shit yeah I've also been really intentional about asking for help.

with our community i've on instagram i've been you know putting up question boxes regularly like hey if you've been through this give me your tips um when we were first like we need to like look into a more alternative treatments i put a question box up around that and got it million responses so um that has been super helpful um just realizing like it's a sign of strength to ask for help and you know we've just been really lucky to have so many people like

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We have both slowed down a lot with work and we're really lucky that we have an awesome team that like gets it and they can run stuff you know on their own with minimal involvement from us we've worked really hard to build a business like that and create a team who's you know self-sufficient and awesome But yeah, like my desire to work is definitely not super there. Like I still love my work and, you know, but yeah, it's just, it's hard to.

show up with a ton of energy when we've got so much going on so I've just given myself that permission and just tried to be really honest with people like on you know on Instagram too if like look I'm not I'm not gonna fake it like I'm not gonna come on Instagram and be like hey guys

Here's our fun tip for today. You know, it's just like I've. There's too much of that on social media anyway. We don't need to play. I couldn't do that anyways. We don't need to play into that. But yeah, just showing up, you know. and authentically and being honest about where we're at and just allowing ourselves to like, you know.

yeah this is not going to be like a blockbuster year for us there are some projects that we're just pushing off or letting go of and like that's okay that's okay um i will say though at the same time like It is also hard because you can't, we can't like totally step away either. Like we got really bad, really bad news.

in the middle of one of our like launches you know we had a course open that we it was our course about how to talk to your kids about sex we'd been working on this course for like a year planning this like big launch was supposed to feel like a party all these like fun things going on around it um you know whenever we have like a course

Like that, like we want people to feel excited joining it. Like you're joining this movement. We're all doing this together. And so we got this horrible news, you know, in the middle. I think it was like the day. A couple of days before the last day. And I was wrestling with myself like, you know, I don't want I don't have the energy to show up on Instagram like, hey, join the court. It's going to be so great.

But at the same time, I'm like, I can't not say anything because if we don't show up on Instagram, people aren't going to buy it. Yeah, people need the course. You guys are last minute buyers too. We know that about you guys. You wait until the last minute. I mean, that's common in this world. We have a lot of other friends that run businesses similar to ours, but I got to say...

When you look at the numbers, our business is the most extreme. We have the most extreme last minute buyers of anybody I've ever seen in this online course space. So. Yeah, I mean, that was challenging. And I was like, you know, because it's not just you and me. We have a team of people who rely on us for their livelihoods. Their families rely on us. So it's like we can't just disappear. We can't just decide to stop working.

entirely like people are relying on us um so I'm proud of how I ended up handling that like I just I did a story on Instagram where I was really raw and just said here's the situation that we're in it's it's a classic and situation like we have this amazing course we're so excited about it we want you to be excited about it and we have this horrible life situation going on and

we can't show up with the same sort of energy that we really wanted to. So, yeah, I was just really brutally honest. Yeah, you were like, usually I would be doing a million stories all day answering all your questions.

yeah and just can't do that today but like all the you know all the all the questions everything is written out on the on on the website on the page and so we're just gonna have to ask you to go there yeah and trust us it's great read it yeah all the you know everything we'd say is all written down there yeah so i'm yeah i'm glad that i just showed up like in that authenticity

And it just, yeah, it feels like all I can do is just, I don't want to fake anything. I don't want to lie. I just want to be real about what's going on. Always a good, that's always a good, good idea.

Pretty much every aspect of life. And then also just like... Going slow in general has been really helpful for me. I've had a lot of like yesterday when we found out that my dad was like in a lot of pain and struggling with the treatment. Like I just went outside on our patio and I just. lied down on the stone and just laid there i was like i just have to do nothing like i i just need to lie there i just need to breathe that's all i'm capable of doing sometimes and that's okay just being

And then I will also say, oh, this is so hard and I don't even know how to like fully describe it. But I've just been working on trying to be in acceptance. of what's going on. And I've realized, like, this is gonna sound so stupid and obvious, but like, I'm gonna lose my dad. You know, whether it's from this or something else. Like, I'm gonna lose my dad. You're gonna lose your dad. I'm gonna lose my mom. Like, we're gonna lose everybody. That's just...

death as a part of life. And I've always known that, obviously. But I think there's a way that I'm just... fully coming into like to terms with that like I'm gonna lose him I don't want to obviously but like I'm going to and

You know, you hear people say it all the time, like, we're not promised any time. You know, like, we could walk out this door and... you know get hit by a car there could be a huge earthquake that hits right this very second like any of us could die in any moment like we're not promised any time um

And I think just having to recognize that, like, it's very easy to see a situation like this. Actually, a friend, a good friend of ours, like, helped me change my mindset about this, too. He was going through losing his dad. And he said, like, at first. He was really angry because he felt like, like my dad's being like stolen from me. Like the time is being stolen.

um and he said he had to shift to recognize like no like I was never guaranteed any time with my dad the time that I've already had as a gift and like each additional day that I have with him is a gift And that just like really struck me. And I've really been trying to look at life that way. Of like, yeah, nothing is owed to us. Nothing is promised to us. So it's not that.

Yeah, it's not that it's being stolen. It's that just every day is a gift. Yeah, it's like you can focus on what could be getting taken away in the future. But of course, like you said. That's not, that's like, it's a, it's a false premise that something is being taken away because you don't actually know. There's no guarantee you could get taken away.

tomorrow he could get taken away tomorrow from something totally unrelated to cancer and so the best that we can do is just today or even this very like this present moment on

I mean, God, I feel so great. I feel so grateful in times like these for my, you know, the journey that I've been on with sobriety and, you know, kind of like what I do to... what i did to get sober and to stay sober is you know a big part of that is acceptance acceptance is like a huge spiritual concept um for most you talk to most people who are sober have been sober long term and they'll talk to you about acceptance and accepting things for how they are living life life on life's terms

And, and then, and taking it one day at a time. Cause yeah, when we feel like we're trying to control or plan out all these things way in the future, like we can just get lost in that. Lost in the planning of it or lost in the resentment of like what could be or what can't be or what's going to get taken away. And we totally lose sight of where we are right now. And, you know, the life we live is.

you know the moment the present moment it's not the future it's not the past yeah okay so let's talk about like how we've been managing it as a couple how the heck are we doing Yeah, I mean, you said it earlier. I'm really proud of us for the ways that we are navigating this together. And we've really felt like a team.

in this and I think part of that is you know you and I put so much effort into like on a daily basis trying to stay connected with you and i won't even say so much effort like i think we're really big on like the bare minimum like what's the bare minimum that our relationship needs to like

for us to feel connected and making sure we're doing that and not letting like, not slipping into ruts, not letting like days or weeks pass by without even like the littlest bit of attention. So we really like, we tend to our relationship. We water it every day. And I think that set us up to, you know, go into this situation, like feeling like a team and feeling strong. And yeah, I just feel so...

I feel so strongly that like we have to continue prioritizing our relationship even when times are tough. Like like you were saying, it's very easy to think like more important things are going on right now. Like, fuck us. We need to just focus on like. Yeah, the relationship will be there when I get back later. Yeah. But I strongly believe that like even in the tough times, like, yeah, you and I are not going on like, you know, romantic date nights every week or anything like that. But.

If we can just keep doing like the minimum effort with each other, like we're going to continue staying strong, continue feeling like a team. And like that's really the whole point of being in a relationship to have a teammate. To go through life with. Yeah, it's why we get into relationships. I can't think of much other reason. We want to have a companion and we want to have support. Right? And so...

Yeah, I mean, that's an ongoing investment that you have to make to be both giving that support that is kind of part of the promise you make of being in a relationship and to receive that support. Yeah. So yeah, just continuing to like focus on our relationship.

has been really important i think one of the best things that we're doing is just expressing a lot of gratitude for each other like really you know we it's something that we pay attention to a lot otherwise but really doubling down on like thank you i see you i appreciate you like that really helped that made an impact you know all that kind of stuff has been really really impactful and even just reminding ourselves like we're a team

We're in this together. I've got you. We've got this. Just that language is really important. I also want to say like you have really like. way that i've seen you like taking care of my dad and my mom it's just been really really beautiful to watch yeah i love them so much i know you do And it just made me so appreciative of you. Like you've just been, you've been so tender with them. And like, there's so, there's so many things that you've done for them.

Like I can't even, yeah, I won't even like try to list all of the things like little and big, just so many ways that you're showing up and things that you've thought of that nobody else thought of. like you've had a you know single-handedly had a huge impact like on my dad's recovery

But just, yeah, the ways that you're treating them with so much tenderness and love. And I think especially with my dad, like I think it's my dad's not a macho alpha male type of guy. My dad's a big, sensitive sweetie. But I think men have a hard time like accepting help, you know, and I imagine that a lot of what my dad's going through like feels very emasculating for him. And I just think that there is.

There's a way that I see you showing up for him that you're, like, allowing him to have his dignity and, like, still be a man. Which I think, you know, in a healthy way. Healthy masculinity. But, yeah, I just think that it's just such a gift that you're giving him that I couldn't give him, you know, because I'm not a man. But it's just been really, like, really sweet and beautiful to watch. Oh, thank you.

I appreciate you for that. And it makes me love you. I love showing up. Yeah, I do. And you have been really showing up. Yeah, I mean, it's important to have purpose in your life and, you know, being of service. to family and friends is one of the best, easiest ways to fulfill that, that need.

I don't know why I bothered doing my makeup today. I haven't put on makeup in like a week. I looked really good today too. Yeah, come over to YouTube if you want to see Vanessa shedding her makeup. Do I have mascara? No, you actually don't. Okay. You don't know. I wouldn't be surprised if as soon as you look in the mirror, you see something that I don't see because that seems to happen constantly here. But it's really just proof that I'm not like.

picking you up, picking your face and body apart every time I look at you. Okay. I will say just to keep it real though, too. I mean, not that we haven't been real, but, um, it is also like, We have had some normal couple fights over the last week, too. And those are so weird. We had a fight yesterday about Xander finishing the last bite of something.

And it's so funny because it's like on the one hand, you know, we're like in the middle of the fight and it wasn't like a fight. It was like a, you know, a disagreement, a very mild disagreement. But on the one hand, I'm like in the middle of it and I'm like. My dad has cancer. What are we like? What are we doing arguing about a muffin right now? But on the other hand, I'm like. But I wanted that last bite of the muffin. It's just such a funny, it's such a funny place to be in of like.

this is the tiniest nothing thing in the grand scheme of everything that's going on but also like this is a thing and i like it's just funny like trying to find the space for space for like normal couple stuff like that so i just had to throw that out there here's the sad truth

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Well, let's wrap things up and let's talk about sex. Yeah. How the fuck are we fucking? Okay, so definitely one of the weirdest thing. How the fuck are we fucking? Definitely one of the weirdest things about this whole journey is that our sex life has been very regular. Yeah. Do I have to say that weird? Regular. Yeah, regular. Regular. Regular. Regular. We've had a very regular sex life. And I'm like, huh? How's this happening? But a couple of things. So first of all.

I want to say it's totally normal for you to experience for anybody. I'm not talking to you. It's totally normal to experience changes to your libido in times of stress and grief. Very normal for your libido to like.

totally disintegrate and disappear. And it's also normal to like still have a libido or even feel like a higher libido than normal. For me personally, there have definitely been days where I'm like, like my libido is lower for sure there have definitely been days where i'm like i am not feeling it but what i've been

What I've been doing is like you and I believe really strongly in the importance of sex. You know, we talk so much about that. It's not just a physical act. It's not just getting off. But like sex is really important to the health of a relationship. And sex creates intimacy. It creates closeness. It's vulnerability. It's, you know, it's all things. Good. We should caveat that. Yeah. Good sex. Good for both people. Regular good sex.

is very important because I think that is the differentiating factor for a lot of people that don't feel comfortable with the idea of just doing it all the time is that probably you feel uncomfortable with that because it's not very good for one of you. yeah so good sex is important and good and yeah for me it's like so there have been times like yesterday we had sex yesterday and

We had talked about having sex earlier in the day, and I was super into it earlier in the day. I was like, yes, let's make this happen. You said something about wine. I did. I initiated earlier in the day. You made a very me type of joke. I did. Which I loved. And then we got the news about, you know, that my dad's first treatment had been really hard. And like the way that there was so much more to the story that I didn't tell, too. It was like it was a tough.

like the way we found out about it was really tough and i was just not feeling it whatsoever but i just decided like i was like you know what i want to do it anyway Like, I don't, it's so weird. I think I'm struggling a little bit with how to describe it. It's like, I don't want to do it. I didn't, like, I didn't feel horny. I didn't feel turned on. The idea of having sex was not exciting to me. I think you got there, though.

But I wanted to do it. I was like, you know what? No, I want to do it. And it's because sex is always good between us. We both make sure that, you know, both of us have a good time. And it's because our relationship is in a good place.

and you know there's safety between the two of us there's a lot of care and intimacy between the two of us so like those things have to be in place but yeah i think sex is helping us feel connected it's you know creating more intimacy between the two of us it can feel sometimes like a little escapist in a nice way like

Let's just focus on like, let's just feel pleasure right now. Just like be in our bodies. And yeah, the release of an orgasm is like great stress relief. Great for your mental health. Great for helping me sleep. All the things. But yeah, I'm choosing to have sex for different reasons in this season of life. And I'm feeling really grateful for that. Yeah, I mean, it's been an interesting experience for me.

too, because I am, I've learned about myself. I have, I am a I want to feel a baseline level of connection before I feel open to sex, but I also have a bit more of a spontaneous sex drive. that can feel tricky in times of high stress or things like this going on because when it can feel like in the past when I've been, you know, really stressed, I can tell that Vanessa is really stressed. It feels like maybe some of that.

that baseline emotional connection required for sex is missing and so then i will you know in the past in moments like this i've pretty much not had much of a sex drive um and The other reality with me right now, I've been on a hormone replacement journey really since the start of this year. And as of very recently, I've... gotten my levels like really really dialed in and i'm not having that experience i'm not having that experience this time around where it's yeah where like it's the yeah like

the hormones are starting to win out is, is the best that I can describe it as. And so it's been, I mean, that's been a really interesting experience for me because in the past I've not really had that experience of sort of feeling like. oh, I have a lot going on and I'm still feeling this drive. You know, in the past I've been more, yeah, I guess just reactive to other stuff happening in life.

And so, yeah, it's just been different for me to navigate, too, because I can see that you are not as naturally... spontaneous or your your your drive isn't there as naturally as as it sometimes can be and totally understandably um and it's also like i recognize like it's your dad too it's not my dad i love your dad and it's also just it's a different experience and so yeah it's it's but yeah it's tricky i think the the thing though is that we keep talking about that

You know, even just talking about that, I'm like, hey, I'm having a I'm having a different experience than I've ever had with my sex drive. And it's it's fun. And it's also. can be a little scary because it's like, oh, I'm worried that maybe you don't really want it very much. And how do we manage that? And so I think it's just because we keep having those conversations, we're creating.

the openness around it which feels really really good to me i've been really proud i mean i've been really i've been really happy with how we've managed to maintain a regular sex life. And I think that that has helped us maintain a regular connection. We maintain a regular connection so we can have a regular sex life and we want to have a regular sex life so we can maintain a regular connection. Both of those things.

the other. And yeah, it's like once you get both going, you got to be doing both to keep both happening. Some things that have been helping for me are I'm lowering expectations of sex itself like I'm like, you know what? This is probably not going to be the season where we have the most earth shattering sex and that's okay. But ironically, I feel like we've actually been having like some crazy good sex. We discovered a couple. We discovered a couple new moves.

the last couple of months before this happened and those have been those i don't know maybe you're teasing that we may have to do an episode on like new New moves. New treks. Vanessa and Xander's new moves. No, but it is funny how when you... when you take the pressure and expectation off sometimes you surprise yourself but i'm like yeah it's okay if this is not like the most earth-shattering sex i've also allowed myself to be clear with like i've been very clear with you sometimes of like

hey, I'm willing to do this with you, but like you're going to have to take the lead or, you know, do most of the work. Or like, hey, I'm open for a quickie, but I don't have it in me to have like a long drawn out sex session. And so that's that's really helped to just like allowing myself to like it's OK to take a little bit of a step back and to not be like as participatory as I normally am.

And there have been times where I've asked you to like change the vibe to like, hey, I just need something that's like really tender or really sweet or like.

Yeah, stuff like that. You know, just making specific requests of like the kind of energy that I'm open to or needing in particular moments. Yeah, that's totally fair. That has helped. Makes a lot of sense. Yeah. And also just like... I think part of what's making me feel more comfortable with having a lot of regular sex in this season is... I don't know how to describe it. This is going to sound weird, too. But like, I think it's kind of similar to my approach towards joy in general is like.

I think it's really hard when a loved one is going through something. You can feel guilty about feeling joy. You're like, oh, like it's so hard. It's so scary. Like I feel bad feeling that way. I mean, you can even feel that's why people feel like sympathy pain. Yeah. It's like I can't I can't even allow myself to feel anything but the same thing that this person is feeling. But what I've been realizing is number one, my dad doesn't want me to be miserable.

Like if my dad heard me say like I'm actively preventing myself from experiencing happiness or joy, he would be so sad. And number two, like me feeling joy and happiness that benefits my dad. I'm such a firm believer in the power of energy in like the more happiness, positivity and joy that is around my dad. Like the more he.

feels that and takes that on and even like laughter I truly think laughter is the best medicine like laughter is healing him and I think that's something my family has historically done really well is we're really good at laughing And finding the humor even in the toughest of times. And so for me, in a funny sort of way, sex fits into that too.

You don't need to announce that. Hey guys, I'm in a great mood because I just had a ton of sex. I just got railed right now. Hopefully your dad's not listening to this episode. But I like I kind of group it in the same way of like it doesn't help my dad for me to not experience joy, pleasure, intimacy, connection.

You know, he wouldn't want that for me. So, and again, it sounds funny when you're talking about your sex life and like, well, my dad would want me to have a great sex life. But it just fits into the same sort of vibe for me of like. nobody benefits from me being miserable or denying myself good experiences or cutting myself off, you know? So I think that kind of, yeah, makes it feel, gives me the permission.

I guess. Okay. Wow. How are we doing? We did it. There's, it's, it's like, I'm, I'm like, I want to stop. I'm done. I'm like, I'm. expended all the energy I had for this and at the same time I'm like we like barely scratched the surface there's so much more i think we did a pretty we did a pretty good job and this is we're like at or above normal podcast yeah minutes recorded right now

Thanks for listening to our TED Talk, people. That's our life update. Yeah, I mean, that's, you know, we just have to be honest and authentic about what we're going through. I think it's important to, yeah, to share this story. And I hope that there's been something useful, you know, to gain out of this episode and whether it's like, you know, our approach to our relationship.

how we're dealing with this individually, health issues, you know, whatever it is. I hope there's been some sort of value here, whether now or maybe at some point in the future when you're going through, you know, something like this. But yeah, just wanted to open up our hearts and let you in, share what's really going on in our world. Yeah, well, gosh, with that.

That's all. That's all we got for this episode of Pillow Talks. Thank you. Thank you so much for listening and just hearing what's going on for us. Like Vanessa said, hopefully it's valuable. Let us know what you think. Um, let us know if you've been through something similar, if you have any, any pro tips or, you know, mindset shifts that got you through it. Oh, you know what I should share?

On Instagram, a lot of people have been asking to send my dad letters or care packages, and he has really been enjoying that. We actually got him to go. Check our PO box for the next batch. But if you feel so inclined, obviously no pressure whatsoever, but I figured I'd just share this here since a lot of people have been asking for it on Instagram. But if you...

want to send him a little something in the mail, you can send it to us. And our mailing address is 1470 East Valley Road, Suite H. Number 5023 in Santa Barbara, California, 93108. Awesome. Yeah. And yeah, if you have anything, any, anything you want to, anything you want to say, any, anything that you related to, or any, you know, mindset shifts that you've been through, because you've been through a journey like this.

Leave us a comment on Spotify. Oh, yeah, yeah. If you're listening on Spotify, great. Leave a comment. Or if you're listening on somewhere else, come over to Spotify and just search Pillow Talks and leave a little comment because we love hearing from you. Yeah. And we'll take any advice, tips, anything. We're open to anything, guys. Yeah. All right. Well, join us again next week. We release new episodes every Thursday and next week's won't be quite this emotional. Hopefully.

We'll see. Maybe it will. No promises. No promises. I'm Lynn for today. But all right. We'll see you next week. Bye. Bye.