E226: Foreplay Frustrations: How to Get More (and Better) Foreplay

Does foreplay count as sex? How can I teach my partner about the importance of foreplay? He loves receiving it but offering it rarely happens. I want more foreplay. My partner wants less. How do we find the balance? I don't even know how to talk to my partner about the kinds of foreplay I would be interested in. How can I do that?

What do we do when one partner loves a certain part of foreplay that you absolutely hate? Can there be a middle ground? I have a feeling I know what they're talking about. What do you think they're talking about? Hello and welcome to the Pillow Talks podcast. We're your hosts, Vanessa and Xander Marin. I'm a sex therapist with over 20 years of experience. And I'm just a regular dude. We share the ups and downs in our relationship while giving you step by step techniques for improving yours.

Make sure you subscribe for your weekly double date full of totally doable sex tips, practical relationship advice, hilarious and honest stories of what really goes on behind closed bedroom doors, and so much more. It's the sex education you wish you'd had. Foreplay frustrations. I think we have all been there. Maybe it feels too short, too routine, like your partner just doesn't quite get what you need. The truth is, most of the time, foreplay struggles aren't really about technique.

They're about mismatched expectations, communication gaps, and the way we even think about foreplay in the first place. So in this episode, we are answering your questions about foreplay from how to ask for more of what you want to keeping it from feeling like a rushed warmup.

to making foreplay feel like the main event. It is all on the table. So if you've ever found yourself wishing for a little more connection, a little more variety, or just a little more time in the buildup, this episode is for you. So we put a call to all you.

what are your foreplay frustrations what questions can we answer what situations can we try to help you solve because i mean let's be real when you get foreplay right Everything else in your sex life really starts to fall into place because I think foreplay is really the missing piece for so many people and especially...

for women who may not be feeling quite as much enjoyment of intercourse as their male counterparts are. And I think foreplay is really the great equalizer. It's the great way to get your partner to the... point where then you know whatever experience comes next is more pleasurable for both partners or it can beat the main event like you said and and really get you across the finish line

all right well let's get right into it then i was kind of already alluding to this possibility but people are asking does foreplay count as sex this feels like a leading question but i'm glad we have it because we do need to talk about something really important so we actually hate the word foreplay we do we're anti-foreplay we but not in the way you think

Yeah, we have these ultimate foreplay guides that are our best sellers in our business. And literally on the second page of the guide, it says, we hate the word foreplay. Yeah, we'd love to name it something else, but we really can't because then people...

won't know what it is. Yeah, everybody knows the word foreplay. So we tend to default to using the words that people know and use rather than trying to make something else up that confuses people. But you don't want to name something, something where you have to then describe. what the thing is. A name needs to just immediately imply to anyone looking at it, oh, I know exactly what this is. So we're kind of stuck.

So, yeah, we don't like the word foreplay because in the word, it's this assumption that like the for part of it, like these are the things that come before the main event. Like you do these things first, then you have intercourse and intercourse.

or what did you call it? In... Wait, did I say intercourse? No, you said something weird. Inder? I've already forgotten it. Okay, but yeah, we treat, especially in male-female relationships, we have this... tendency to treat intercourse as the main event and foreplay is you know these things that let's be real most of us spend like 30 to 90 seconds on before we scoot on to intercourse oh yeah or or it's like the foreplay things are the things that you

know, as you were kind of coming of age sexually, it was the stuff that you did before you got to the main event. You know, it's like, oh, I got to second base. I got the third base. But the truth is. Everything counts as sex. Like whatever you want sex to be, that's what sex is. And there is no hierarchy here. Like having oral sex isn't any better or worse or more advanced or less advanced than having intercourse.

Being fingered isn't like, you know, it's just like whatever you enjoy, whatever brings you pleasure, that's what matters most. And I think actually it's good that you brought up. when we're becoming sexually active, most of us tend to think of these things as, they feel like smaller steps. Like, okay, I'll let my partner finger me. That doesn't feel nearly as intense or overwhelming or intimate as intercourse. I think that is true when you're first.

Becoming experience, you know, having your first experiences. But by the time you're, you know, an adult and you're on your fifth romantic relationship, it's like, you know, or you're in a long-term relationship. It's like all those things really even out. Well, yeah, you've had plenty of experience. experience with all those things and you're not like, oh my God, intercourse is...

So much. It's like, oh, no, this is something I've done with my partner all the time. Like, I'm familiar with this. It doesn't feel intimidating. I'm familiar with this intercourse. So, yeah, like, oral sex counts as sex. Manual stimulation counts as sex. And the other interesting thing to recognize about foreplay is that for women, women are far more likely to orgasm from foreplay than they are from intercourse. We've polled our audience before and we asked women.

is intercourse the thing that brings you the most pleasure are you most likely to orgasm with intercourse 91 of women said no

91%. So you are way more likely to make her orgasm with your hands, your mouth, a toy, than you are through intercourse. So that's another reason why we need to... elevate the foreplay experience and give it the respect that it deserves because that's really where she's going to feel the most pleasure and to be super clear i feel like i have to jump in and say this for all the guys that are listening to that and are their ears are perking up and they're

like oh my god so wait are you saying that like we shouldn't be having intercourse we are not anti-intercourse we are not saying anything like you're doing it wrong by wanting to have intercourse all we are saying is that Intercourse for most women is not as pleasurable as it is for most men. Most men tend to prefer, when we do that same poll, a majority of men say that intercourse is their most pleasurable.

event or activity, followed by blowjobs. Handjobs are last, even though I would argue handjobs can be pretty great with the right technique. but so yeah we're not saying don't do it we're not saying oh yeah let's just take intercourse off the table foreplay is the way to go for everyone but i think that you know if we define sex as

The thing that brings us both a lot of pleasure and makes us feel satisfied with the experience, for most of us, that's going to be what brings us an orgasm. And so why not focus on, or not even focus on, why not include? the activities that are most pleasurable for each partner and that's not to say okay well we can't do intercourse it's like no you can do intercourse and you can and you can do you know some kind of oral or manual stimulation

So just want to call that out for all the people that might be worried that we are somehow anti-intercourse. We are absolutely not. Intercourse is great. And intercourse also, by the way, it can be combined with certain foreplay activities. There are ways to go back and forth. Yeah, you can go.

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All right, let's move on. How can I teach my partner about the importance of foreplay? He loves receiving it. but offering it rarely happens. This is a common one. Okay, so to answer the first part of the question, rewind this episode about five minutes and play it out loud while your partner's nearby or send it to them.

them or ask them to listen to it with you. Like we really try to design so many of these episodes to be listened to together and open up conversations, get you guys talking about things in a way that maybe you haven't before. So I hope we've laid out a convincing enough argument for why foreplay is so important but you know what i'll also say like

foreplay is fun like i think so often we have this way that we talk about foreplay in the media where it feels like a drag like oh women are always wanting more foreplay you gotta preheat the oven like we talk about it in this really derogatory way but like oh it's so fun and so pleasurable yeah like this should be exciting yeah even if even for the person giving it like it's it may not it's not stimulating to you when you're giving it to your partner but like just watching

partner when you know that you are doing it with good technique in a way using techniques that your partner is going to respond very positively to you know what the outcome is going to be. It's super hot watching it. Yeah, extremely. But I think that that's the big disconnect here. And I think that actually kind of can explain why this type of situation can come up.

So I think the challenge is that most men do not feel confident or do not know offhand. Like if I were to sit down with a guy and be like, hey, do you know like which? two or three foreplay techniques like with your hands or your mouth are the absolutely most pleasurable for your partner or which are the three things that are going to like bring her to orgasm i bet you most guys would be like

honestly if they were really being honest with me and be like you know what i'm actually not i'm not sure like you know i do x y and z but i don't really know and i think that that's the main problem and it's like if i if i look back in my earlier sexual experiences it all gets back to not communicating, me not communicating with my partners, my partner's not communicating with me about what...

techniques are actually the most effective or the most pleasurable. I was never open with anyone and no one was ever open with me about like, you know, what is actually going to bring them to orgasm. It wasn't like, it was never discussed. And so I think that a lot of men, I think this is the experience I had. And I think a lot of men have this is like, you are starting to become sexually active. You're, you know, doing your, your finger and your partner, you're starting to give them oral sex.

And you have this experience of, huh, okay, I've been like doing something for a while. I can't tell if it's working. I can't tell if they're having an orgasm, especially when you're really young. Like, did they have an orgasm? I don't know. Okay, I feel like I've done this for five minutes. That's got to be enough, right? My turn.

So I think that we have this experience over and over and over when we are, you know, having early partners where we don't talk about it. We don't really know if what we're doing is working. And we have this experience of sitting there being like, huh, I'm doing something.

I don't really know if it's working. I don't feel like I'm really good at this. But then the thing that we move on to afterwards, that's the thing where I'm getting the validation, right? Whether it's true validation or fake validation.

you pretty much quickly learn okay yeah intercourse is like that's where the magic happens and that's where i really can contribute and you're also getting validated by your own pleasure because you're like oh this feels good yeah so I think that that's really the big problem is that most of us have had these experiences, a lot of experiences of being like,

i'm sitting here i've been sitting here for a while my hands getting tired my mouth is getting tired and i don't know if it's working for my partner and it's yeah that's on all of us it's not just on guys like it's also on women for like not being open to

Being like, hey, you know, actually, I really like this technique. And, you know, so it's we have we both have equal responsibility for this. We got to be able to talk about this stuff. So it's like we got to figure out how to accept. OK. this is i've had all these experiences i understand you've had these experiences and here we are now in our relationship we know each other we love each other like let's just start talking about what is it that i really need

I would say if you can't name with complete confidence the top three techniques that your partner really likes with foreplay, you should definitely buy our foreplay guides. Yeah. Okay, but I want to address the second part of this. Loves receiving it, but offering it rarely happens. So on the surface, obviously that sounds like somebody who's being a little bit of a jerk or at least selfish. Like, oh, you're going to take it, but like never give it to me. But I want to.

want to give this guy the benefit of the doubt because of a dynamic that I've heard about so often. As women, we really struggle to receive foreplay and receive attention, time, energy during sex. And so a lot of us, and I was very guilty of doing this myself in my sex life for so long.

our partner like oh don't worry about me we'll let him touch us for like 30 seconds and then it's like okay we can you know we can move on you're like trying to you know trying to move it along i've had that experience so many times too and i think so many men have had the experience of having a woman you know push their hand away or push their head away or say like, okay, you can stop now. That I think a lot of men get it into their heads that like the nicer or better thing to do is to not.

like bother her with trying to focus on her yeah and then add in the dynamic i just talked about so they have most guys have had a lot of those experiences what you just described kind of getting pushed away or told no no no like let's move on and they've also had the experience of in the time

when they've really wanted to give it or been excited about giving it where they're like, oh, I don't know what's happening. I don't feel comfortable asking if this is okay or if there's a way it's better to do it. My partner's clearly not comfortable. This is just a... weird situation so of course you come away from like a lifetime of that yeah being like okay cool well it seems like it's better for me not to offer

And I think a lot of guys have the, I think, at least inside, they're thinking, well, if my partner really wanted it, they'd ask me. Yeah, yeah. Right? And who knows, in this case, if you have asked your partner a lot. If you've asked your partner a lot. very clearly.

Because I think also there is a dynamic between women and men often where women are asking in these very roundabout ways or implying and thinking they're being crystal clear. And Matt is completely over the guy's head. And he'd be like, she's never asked me this. And, you know. And if I were to talk to her, she'd be like, oh, I'm like, I'm making all these implications every single time. I'm like, but did you actually say, could you give me more oral? It never happened.

Anyway, yeah, I think that it's got to be made really clear. And if it has been made a very clear request multiple times and he still is avoiding it. that's a serious problem yeah okay but let me give you a couple little tricks in the moment to use if you're feeling a bit nervous about like opening up a big conversation or you know whatever you can say so let's say the two of you are starting to make out or whatever you can say like hey

I want to go first tonight, you know, so make it feel like fun, playful, and sexy. You don't have to go first with the orgasm. Yeah. Not even an orgasm, but just like a little attention. Yeah. or let's say you've just gone down on him for a while you come back up and say okay my turn

Yeah, that's good. So just like, yeah, you don't need to come in hot and heavy. Of course, if he's like been a jerk about it, this is a separate situation. But if it's just one of those like, I don't really know why this isn't happening. You don't have to come in hot and heavy and be like, you never, you know, go down on me.

going on with you like make it a little fun and playful like okay my turn i want to call out one more fear that i think a lot of men have and i definitely have fallen prey to this in the past and i feel like

In our relation, and even in the beginning of our relationship, this was something that came up for me. I feel like at this point in our relationship, this is a solved problem. I have no hangups about it. But I think most guys in long-term relationships... are not at that point and so what that is is that i think that there's a hesitance to go to like to do non-intercourse types of foreplay things that are not mutually pleasurable

I think that men are hesitant to do that outside of the very beginning of sex because they're worried about losing interaction. Because the reality is, is that giving foreplay, whether it's, you know, fingering or oral. is super hot and i will often i will often get hard as i'm doing that to you because it's exciting

oh, this is happening. But once I spend more than like a minute or two on that, then I lose the erection because I'm like... because because i mean think about it like you get stimuli you can get stimulated from like not touching yourself and of just thinking about something but like you can't maintain that forever you have to actually most men need to have actual stimulation on the penis in order to maintain that erection. And so...

And it's so easy to get in your head and be like, oh, well, I can't go down on her in the middle of sex because I'm going to lose this erection. Or like, oh, she just went down on me for a while. I can't go down on her now because she got me hard. And now... And now I can't lose it. Now, the thing that most people are missing is that it gets back to this idea of feeling like foreplay is too much.

I felt prey to this where I'd be like, oh, well, she just went down on me. Now she wants me to go down on her, but then I'm going to need her to go down on me again in order to get hard again. And I felt like I couldn't ask for that. Because it's like you're thinking, oh, foreplay is too much. It's got to be this back and forth. And, you know, I think that we talked about that many years into our relationship.

and and we actually had to talk about it a lot i needed to hear this from you a lot of like hey if you want me to touch you if you want me to go down on you like i love doing that for you and like just just ask it's not it's not like oh well i did it to you and you did it to me so now we're done with that and i think that so many guys have this idea that it's like you get the blow job once and that's it

And it's like, no, just have the conversation. Hey, I would love to have more foreplay with you. I'm finding myself feeling a little uncomfortable with the idea that I might lose my erection and then I might need some more help from you to get it back. Because also the reality I just want to call out, I think that it can feel harder to get the erection the second time.

which is a kind of weird, it's a weird experience. Like it can be really easy at first. You're like, boing, all right, ready to go. And then after you kind of lose it a bit and then to get it again can feel a little harder.

I think part of that, though, is because you're already in your head. You're like, oh, God, I lost the erection. Once you kind of let go of that, it does get a lot easier. But I think you ought to be like, hey, I'm a little nervous about this. And I've realized I've felt nervous in the past. asking for your help with some stimulation. How would you feel if I were to ask you to go down on me again for like a minute or two or to use your hands to help me get back to where I want to be?

i think you'd be surprised your partner would probably be like hell yeah i'm game for that and then once you know that you can do that and ask for that at any time then it's like oh, the restrictions are off. We can do whatever we want here. We're not limited by meeting hard. so i'm actually really curious to all of you listening like have that conversation with your partner and let us know how it goes i'm really curious because i think that that can really open a lot of doors for you

All right. So I've been talking, we've been referencing a lot of like blowjobs, handjobs, fingering, oral so far when we've been talking about foreplay. But people are also asking, what are some kinds of foreplay that aren't just blowjobs, handjobs? Okay, I love this question because I think most of us have a way too narrow view of what foreplay actually is. So I like to think of foreplay as anything that gets us excited.

turned on, wanting to connect with our partner. Intimately. Yeah. And we think that foreplay for the next time starts the second that you stop having sex. So basically you're just should always be having foreplay. Yeah. really should be all day foreplay baby okay so one key thing one key way to have foreplay with your partner

literally just be nice to them. Oh, that's so nice. I know that sounds ridiculous, but I think most people do not realize what a big deal this is. Yeah. Because we have to be real. If you Put a little hidden camera on your average couple and watch how they interact with each other through a given day. Don't worry, we turn the camera off when you have sex.

Like we're not super nice to each other. It's just so easy, even though this is the person you love the most in the world. It's so easy to be snippy, irritable, frustrated. I mean, like we've been irritated at each other multiple times today and it is. three o'clock like that's just life but when we make that effort

To be thoughtful about how we treat each other and just be kind to each other. It makes a huge difference. I mean, we hear from people all the time who are like, my partner is just kind of a jerk to me. And yeah, of course, I don't want to have sex with them.

literally just be nice that's that's a low bar we're starting with a pretty low bar great okay chore play is another one that we love talking about so chore play if you haven't heard that phrase it's like doing chores But in a way that's like playful and kind of hamming it up a little bit, you know, like being a little sexy.

a little sexy as you wipe down the counter or you you know get the vacuum cleaner going and i mean i think what's really behind that is for so many of us we like feeling and women especially like we really only hear about women being turned on by chore play I don't think you've ever really heard about a man being into it. Yeah, unless they're sort of like a maid fantasy.

Ooh, sexy maid. But that's a whole different fantasy. So for women, we want to feel like we have a partner in life. And so many of us feel like, we often feel like our partner is yet another.

creature that we need to take care of and is not contributing to like daily, you know, day-to-day life and household stuff. We're not in an equitable way. Yeah. So... it's you know it's this sense of oh my partner's just participating in the shitty parts of being an adult like everybody hates doing chores nobody gets excited about them so it's like seeing your partner it's like okay my partner notices that things need to be done

They're taking the initiative to just do it. They're doing it themselves rather than telling me that it needs to be done. And for me, you and I have a very equitable relationship. So I don't get turned on by chore play in the sense of like, oh, fine.

Finally, you know, he's being a real adult. But I like that you get goofy with it. We both do. You know, kind of like hamming it up and like, oh, look what I'm doing kind of thing. Like it's become this like playful little joke between the two of us. And I think that's fun. Like for me, us being silly and playful with each other feels like foreplay. Yeah, I think that chore place is one that you really do need to discuss in advance. Is this something that you think?

could be fun or exciting for you because we do also hear from a lot of people being like, oh, the idea of chore play doesn't sound good to me. It sounds like I'm basically supposed to just like reward my partner with sex. for something that they should already be doing. If you were in a dynamic like that, then no, short play is not the answer. The answer is figuring out your mental load situation. But...

But yeah, you might also be someone that goes, oh yeah, no, that actually would feel sexy to me if my partner did some things and kind of showed off when they were doing it. then yeah, absolutely. But yeah, I do want to be, I want to call out that potential dynamic. This is not like, oh guys, the cheat code to getting sex with your wife is like washing the dishes. Yeah. Because that, you know, that's a problematic.

dynamic if it's just like oh yeah i do this thing and then i expect to get this outcome um so yeah talk about it if it's something that sounds fun and exciting to you guys then game on if it's not then you probably have some other things to look at in your relationship first Okay, other kinds of foreplay, massage, sensual touch, sensory play, dirty talk, a little dirtier flirty talk.

um reading listening to or watching erotica and using toys like those all count as foreplay there are other options too but yeah that's a nice little list for you and we have detailed instructions for so many of these within

our couples membership so you should get in there we'll tell you that's what she said whoa um we'll tell you a little bit more about that later or you can go straight to vmtherapy.com slash deeper to check that out All right, time to tell you about one of our favorite podcast sponsors.

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So I think that foreplay should be determined by the receiver. I think, yeah, if you're like, I want my partner to finger me for like 10 minutes. You should get to decide that versus your partner saying like, oh, well, I only took five minutes, so I'm only going to give you five minutes. So I think it should be determined by the receiver. Yeah, I'm kind of curious.

how to have more context on this question like yeah when you say my partner wants less are you saying my partner wants to give me less foreplay or my partner Like, or is it that you're suggesting, oh, wouldn't it be hot if we spent like 15, you know, we spent, you spent a while on me and then I spent a while on you. And he's like, eh, I don't really want.

you to spend that much time on me like I'd rather do something else I'm curious if it's that I'm I would suspect it's probably unfortunately the former case where it's like he's like oh I like I don't want to go down on you for 10 minutes on, I mean...

i i just don't think you get to choose that like again okay so first of all it goes back to understanding the importance of foreplay that this is not just like a nice to have thing especially for women this is essential for us this is sex for us so yeah get to decide for yourself if you're like you know I don't really need foreplay intercourse is my favorite thing or like I like it when my partner gives me like a little you know 30 seconds of rub-a-dub

I don't know why that came off. Wow. This is very unlike you to say something so crude like that. That's like a, you icked yourself on that one. I did. I like, I got the ick before it even came out of my mouth, but I couldn't. myself from saying it. A little genie in the bottle. Yeah, it just came out. Okay, so if you're like, I want my partner, yeah, just like a little 30 second, what's the other phrase? The little tug, pull, tug. What? A tug? A little tug and pull action. Sure.

I mean, are we talking about him like a man fingering a woman? No, no, no. I'm saying like he could say, yeah, like just, you know. put your hand on me for like 30 seconds that's all i need you can say that you get to determine how much foreplay you want on your own body but if your partner is saying hey i need a little more time for foreplay i want a little more time on foreplay i love when you spend more time going down on me

Like, yes, we all get to have our own boundaries. Obviously, I'm not telling people to do something that doesn't feel safe to them. But again, I feel like the rule should be the person receiving it gets to dictate how much time they want spent on that.

Yeah, I mean, I think ultimately, I mean, this is where we start to get into challenging territory. But like, I think that ultimately, your sex life... is a very very very important part of your relationship if you are not happy with your sex life your relationship is generally for most people not gonna work long term one person eventually is going to get fed up with that and so i think that i think unfortunately most of us are not willing to ask ourselves the tough questions about

Am I satisfied with this sex life? Am I okay with this sex life that I have? Can I accept the situation with our sex life? and and they're not really willing to look at that in the immediate term and they're they'll punt and punt and punt until eventually it reaches the boiling point and then like everything blows up But I think like, yeah, you have to ask yourself, okay, my partner is wanting more oral sex. They're wanting more fingering. You know, I don't feel comfortable giving.

for that long i don't enjoy doing that you have to ask yourself okay so this is the sex life that we need to have in order for my partner to actually enjoy it you know in a similar way to me I have to be able to be like, yeah, you know what? Like, I'm willing to do that. Hopefully you're more than just willing. Like, I'm excited to do this for my partner. But like, if you're truly not excited, you truly really don't want that. And you just want it to be.

on your terms and the way that you want it i mean ultimately i do think you have to be like i don't think that i can live with this type of arrangement like this this relationship isn't For me, like do yourself and do your partner a favor earlier rather than later and be like, yeah, no, I'd rather be with a partner that doesn't really care about themselves and just cares more about me.

which i mean i think that if you actually put it in those terms you'd probably realize oh yeah maybe i need to look at this differently but i would say to the guys out there who are concerned that they're what their partner is really asking for is like 20 minutes of oral sex. Yeah, if you were to just do 20 minutes of oral sex with the technique that you currently know today, in the position that you currently do it in today, that might not be tenable.

and it's like you gotta you gotta be open to like all right maybe We together need to work on some new stuff. Maybe I need to go out and buy these guys foreplay guides and figure out what are some better positions that are going to be more comfortable for me? What are some different techniques that are going to be the most pleasurable for my partner?

Because the reality is, I promise you, your partner doesn't just want 20 minutes of oral sex. They want the amount of oral sex that they think is going to get them close to orgasm or to orgasm. And I promise you, with the right technique... and the right stuff in place, you can get that time down and down and down. So rather than focusing on, oh my God, they want me to spend so much time on them, reframe that to...

Oh my God, they want to feel a lot of pleasure. They want to feel the same amount of pleasure that I can. How can we really boost the pleasure? How can we get better and better and better at this activity?

so that it is better for all of us and how do we make that happen even quicker because that's really going to be the shortcut to actually you having more of the type of sex that you are wanting now is like getting to a point where you can get them way higher up on the pleasure scale quicker and then be able to like you know get your own you know your own genitals involved too so yeah i would set aside the idea of balance in the first place like

Maybe you could focus on balance long-term, but yeah, balance implies that it's like, oh, it's five minutes, five minutes. Think about balance of pleasure. Let's get the balance of pleasure right. And I promise you, The balance in terms of time, that will change once you figure out the pleasure. Just focus on the pleasure and also the way you feel about the balance of time, I promise, is going to change once you get that pleasure balanced. All right.

I don't even know how to talk to my partner about the kinds of foreplay I would be interested in. How can I do that?

Start with this episode. Easy. Yeah, go through this list that we went over together and you can pause the episode after each one and talk about like, yeah, would you like that? What kind of, like massage, for example, what kind of massage do you like? What part of your... body do you like to be massaged? How much pressure do you like? All of that. But yeah, use that list as a little conversation opener.

And I mean, we mentioned it a couple of times, but for the more explicitly sexual parts of foreplay, literally just grab our foreplay guides. Tell your partner, hey, I bought something really fun for us. to just go through and experiment with we literally lay out tons of techniques step by step for fingering for oral sex for hand jobs for blow jobs you could have like multiple multiple like

four, eight, 12 different date nights where you just do a couple activities each from that. And like, you might be shocked at how many things you discover about like, new ways that bring you more pleasure or ways things that are more comfortable or just giving you new ideas and feeling closer and more excited like we have yeah we have so many people that come to us with that story be like okay

I've been putting it off. I bought your guide finally. And we just like, I just showed my partner and we just started to go through it and holy shit. So I think honestly, that is the easiest way. is let us bring you the ideas. All you have to do is try them. If you don't like them, blame us.

Yeah, I mean, yeah, whether it's the foreplay guides or the podcast episode, like I do think it's just nicer when you have something to kind of blame it on in a sense, where you're not, you know, catching your partner out of nowhere, like.

Hello. It's time to talk about foreplay. Like, obviously, that can feel a little bit awkward. But when you have something like, hey, I was listening to this episode and it brought up all sorts of interesting questions for me. I'd love to listen to it with you or I'd love to ask you some stuff from it.

Or, you know, oh my God, I found this like really fun thing online and I think it'd be super sexy for us to go through it together. Like it just feels easier to open a conversation when you're starting with something like that. Oh yeah. And then, and also when we give you all the techniques.

you don't have to worry about if about saying oh you know what i didn't love that technique that instead of being like possibly interpreted by your partner as i don't like your technique all you're saying is oh i actually didn't like that technique that xander and finessa yeah suggested they said they said that not everyone would like all of these the point of trying all of them is so that you find the ones that you really do like they're telling me try these

20 things i'm gonna love you know eight to ten of them so there's gonna be like 10 to 12 that are like meh to so-so to maybe even not good For me, that's normal and expected. No, no, it's more, you're going to like more than that probably, but I'm just throwing random numbers out of my ass. Okay. How do I keep from falling into a foreplay routine?

How do we keep it feeling different and exciting over time? So I think expanding your repertoire of what counts as foreplay can really help. One fun thing that you could do here is like write down. all these different types of foreplay, like get really specific with it, write them all down on little slips of paper and like put them in a jar and pull one at random and do, you know, that, that night, that could be like a fun way to play around with it or try to.

to make little adjustments to the things that you already know you like and do so for example maybe have foreplay in a different location maybe you start the foreplay like in the kitchen or in the living room and then you move on to the bedroom or whatever it is or

Try a different position giving a blowjob than you usually try. So like just little tweaks can actually make a surprisingly big difference. We're all about the little tweaks. I think so often, maybe we were talking about this in last week's episode too.

Most of us hear the advice to try new things, keep it spicy. And we go to really big, you know, grandiose ideas in our head of like, oh, my God, we have to be having threesomes or tying each other up and hanging from the rafters. Yeah, like new is something has to be. new to both of us, something we've never even tried or thought about. Never done an extreme. And it doesn't. You would be shocked how big of a difference just changing the position can be. So get creative.

play around with it but but think about it as like small tweaks rather than huge changes you know i think the interesting thing about falling into a routine with foreplay i never really thought about it like this until i heard this question asked because we've been talking in this episode a lot about like

balancing pleasure with foreplay. I think that if you are in a situation where the pleasure balance or the you know the pleasure is imbalanced or you're not getting a lot of pleasure out of intercourse you're looking for more foreplay to get things in better balance

From that perspective, it's almost like I don't want you with foreplay to be like, okay Every single time got to try something new blah blah blah It's like in a way it's like I actually do want you to find a routine that really works for you and it's like beginning you kind of want to get yourself into a foreplay routine okay let's figure out what really works for us let's figure out how to like decrease the time

to pleasure um let's figure out how to you know get the balance as balanced as possible in terms of pleasure and you know not like time has to be balanced but like you know let's try to you know if one of us takes a lot longer let's try to figure out how to get that person to take not quite as long, right? And so with that, you do need routine.

you need to get honed in on what are the specific techniques let's really get into that routine so that it just feels like you know i can do this whenever i feel confident that's how you build the confidence yeah but then as soon as you get there then it's like all right now let's kind of you know let's kind of

Take the lid off. Yeah. And start trying some other things because you might be surprised when you start trying other things. Oh, all of a sudden, these other things that maybe didn't work so well in the past might be more exciting. Now that you have that confidence, you have that baseline of, oh.

okay, I know how to get there. So yeah, I think I wanna be careful when we're talking about routine that people aren't thinking, oh, we're telling people they gotta be trying something new every single time. Like, I want you to figure out your routine. And I want you to start expanding the routine. Yeah. If you're loving the podcast and wondering, okay, but how do I actually put this into practice in my relationship?

Well, then you're definitely going to want to check out our membership deeper. It is hands down the best and the most affordable way to take your relationship from good to great. Inside, we guide you through our five keys to everyday intimacy, communication, connection, desire, pleasure, and exploration. And we give you the expert tools you need to strengthen each one.

to our core library of courses and guides like the ultimate foreplay guides the ultimate sex guide art of initiation and so so much more Plus, we drop two brand new date ideas every month. You get daily Would You Rather prompts, monthly live calls with us, and fun intimacy challenges to keep your momentum going. And oh yeah, Vanessa AI is there too. on-demand sex and relationship coach that is trained on everything.

Literally everything that we've ever created. So ask her anything and get instant expert-backed answers. So if you're ready to communicate better, feel more connected, and turn up the heat on your sex life, head on over to vmtherapy.com. and use code Pillow for 25% off your first month just for Pillow Talks listeners.

All right, next up, what do we do when one partner loves a certain part of foreplay that you absolutely hate? Can there be a middle ground? I have a feeling I know what they're talking about. What do you think they're talking about? Blowjobs.

probably okay this is a really tricky question so i want to try to address it with nuance i want to start by saying we all get to have our own boundaries in the bedroom. We all are different people. We all have different experiences. And for certain people, like... Certain acts just don't feel safe or comfortable. A lot of times this can have to do with negative experiences in the past, even experiences with abuse or boundary violations in the past. So I want to make sure I'm super clear.

that like we all get to have our own boundaries if there's something that really doesn't feel good to you really doesn't feel safe to you Don't force yourself to do it. I definitely would encourage you to get some therapy around it and to explore it, especially if it was something where, you know, maybe it was the result of sexual abuse or something like that. Like you deserve to have.

the full menu of options open to you and not feel closed down because of past negative experiences. And I'll give a quick shout out that we have a totally free guide that we offer, a course that we offer to survivors of sexual abuse, to female survivors. It was made for female survivors. People of any gender can find the tips useful, but I just need to make sure that I'm clear in saying that.

The original intention was that it speaks to women. But if you go to vmtherapy.com slash free, you will find it there. So that talks about how to reclaim your sex life and how to feel safe and comfortable with acts that feel like they've been taken from you. Okay, so there's that aspect of it. Then we have the trickier scenario where it's like, I just don't like giving them. Sort of preference-based. Yeah, it's not that it doesn't feel safe or uncomfortable, but like, I just don't like it.

One thing that we have found to be very true is that people often say that they don't like performing a certain act because they don't feel confident in their technique. And blowjobs are a key. example of where that comes up and it makes a lot of sense like who would want to do something that you don't feel like you're very good at right so learning technique learning proper technique and especially with blowjobs oh my god the way that most people

are doing blow most women i'll say when most women are doing blowjobs is not it and i totally understand why so many women hate giving them so some of this might be opening yourself up to learning some technique i'm also curious though what your perspective on this is though i think that But societally, we do have a bit of a language that we use that can make blowjobs feel kind of derogatory. towards women.

Yeah, I think a lot of women think of them as a demeaning experience. Oh, yeah. I meant demeaning. I said derogatory. I meant demeaning. Yeah. Okay. So, yeah, I do think that is true, unfortunately, because I think that there's so much power behind

giving a blow job when you feel confident in your technique when you feel good about what you're doing there is so much power to be felt like there's truly nothing like pleasuring a man and knowing you have all the power in the world over him in that moment like It's really enjoyable, really exciting, and I think it's very empowering. So I'm bummed that so many people have this view of blowjobs being demeaning.

It's again, because you're doing it all wrong. When we do it the right way, it's actually an incredibly empowering experience. Yeah, I really do think it gets back to that technique piece so, so, so much.

Because I think that, yes, the way that we mostly see blowjobs performed in porn, the technique used, like that often, the technique itself... feels pretty demeaning and then also the way it is portrayed is often pretty demeaning and so i can totally see when your idea of what a blowjob is is this is a very specific technique i'm talking about deep throating um and then the way it's portrayed is really demeaning and then there's also like people you know talking about especially like in your

teenage years i think there's a lot of talk about like trying to get blowjobs and stuff like oh we got to get blowjobs from these women that don't want to give them um like of course it ends up feeling like this demeaning thing plus on top of that then there's this whole dynamic of oh well then men don't want to go down on you so it's like they want something from you that they're not willing to give to you

Of course it ends up feeling demeaning that way. But yeah, if you follow some of the techniques that we have in our foreplay guides, you will see it's not all about deep throating. In fact, you probably never need to deep throat a penis. Never, ever, ever to give the same experience. You don't need to make yourself gag. So many people ask about that. yeah if if you are having a gag reflex come up giving a blow job like you are doing it wrong there are ways to do it and deliver a great experience

that feels like you're putting the whole thing in your mouth with you barely putting much of it into your mouth. You know, the way that you're speaking about it, it really sounds like you're the one giving the blowjob. I'm not.

You've never given a blowjob in your life, but you're like, the technique, when you get it, Ryan, you're never going to be gagging, girl. I mean, there are guides. You know what you're talking about. You have no clue. I do know what I'm talking about. There are fucking foreplay guides. girl.

That's our best-selling product. Of course I know our product. You have no personal experience with it. I don't. I don't. But you're right. That is what I would say. Instead of you're gagging, you're doing a rock. Do you want me to do it on a banana sometime or something like that? I mean, honestly, you probably should just so you know what it's like.

God, yeah, I'd be like, oh my God, my technique, my coordination. We should have you, we should have you like review the blowjob section of the foreplay guide. Oh my God, that would be like, that would be incredible social media content though. Instagram is being so annoying to us. There's no way we could get away putting that up. Yeah, I don't know. We got to like do that in our deeper membership or something.

Be like all the content you really want that Instagram will let us do. Santa giving a BJ to a banana. I mean, if that'll get you, the listener, to invest in your relationship. then hey i'm game god wow i i am game i mean it's a small price to pay i know how much of a difference it will make You know, people are very hesitant to invest in their relationship. I know what it does for you. I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is.

My banana where my mouth is. You're willing to put your mouth where your mouth is. No, I'm willing to put my banana where my mouth is. All right, you hear it here first. If you sign up for a deeper, Sandra will deep throat a banana. Okay. Okay. There was one other thing I wanted to say about this question, but I totally have lost my train of thought now. You hate it. Okay.

Let me just finally address this scenario of like, let's just say you're just like, no, guys, I don't care. I... i just no matter what i'm not given a blowjob i absolutely refuse like that is your prerogative you're allowed to say that if you want to but i would come at it from the perspective of recognizing like that oral sex is a pretty

standard sexual act it's not something that's like really you know wildly out there or uncommon out of the ordinary and i think it's not fair to expect oral sex in return if you're not willing to do it if you have a partner where your partner's like hey i don't care i don't really want to receive it but i love giving it sure whatever but

Other than that, I don't think it's really fair to say, I'm not going to do it, but I want you to do it to me. And then I think beyond that... is even the you know you have to be willing to accept that that might be a non-negotiable for your partner and that you know you could be putting your relationship at risk because that does kind of modify the terms or the expected or understood terms of of your sex life so i think it's just sort of a

an eyes wide open like go into this eyes wide open type of thing i think a lot of us think oh yeah well maybe can i just sort of get away with this and it's like no like let's we got to be honest about sex sex is one of the top three reasons that people People get divorces like it is breakup. Yeah. Breakup or divorce. Like it is a it is a key element of a relationship that is beyond friends. And.

If it is not being fulfilling to both partners, most partners eventually are going to be fed up with that and leave. gonna you know i'm not trying to scare anyone but just you know putting it out there we got to give sex the respect that it deserves i think we often

because we don't talk about it, we can kind of devalue it until it really becomes a problem. But I think we'd be so much better off. It's just from the beginning, we were like, hey, this is a really important part of our relationships. We got to make sure we're compatible here. rather than expecting that we will be compatible without talking about it or without actually doing all of the things that need to be done in order to evaluate it. All right.

Let's move on. My rant is over. Is it okay to not really be into foreplay as a woman? It's so hyped up, but I don't really enjoy it. What am I missing? Okay, so this could be a technique issue.

you know where you just haven't found the exact techniques that work on your body so i would encourage you to explore techniques try different things see if there are certain things that you like more than others i would also concur

you to explore like are there any sort of psychological or emotional blockages that come up for you like do you get self-conscious like oh my god my partner's been down there for so long like i feel really bad are you pushing your partner away or telling them to stop are you

putting up with your partner maybe doing some techniques that you really don't like because you're too embarrassed to like give them feedback um are you embarrassed of your genitals like oh my god i'm worried my partner thinks i smell bad or it looks weird it tastes bad So let's say you've explored all of that, though. You're like, yeah, no, I've tried a ton of techniques. I really don't think there are any like mental or emotional blockages in my way.

Like it is it's totally fine if there are certain sexual acts that you just don't enjoy. So I talk often about the fact that. I don't love receiving oral sex. Believe me, we tried all the techniques in the foreplay, guys. I know them all. It's truly not a technique issue. And it's not like I dislike it. But for me, it's just not...

I enjoy hands so much more because hands can create more stimulation, more sensation. For you. For my unique body. And I even feel more sensation from intercourse than I do from oral sex just on its own. so that's normal that's okay like just because and especially with oral sex i think

A lot of times you hear women talk about oral sex as like the be all end all. Like, oh my God, it's the best. Well, because it is for many women. Yeah, it is for many women. But that doesn't mean that something is wrong with you if you're not one of them. Exactly. Just like, you know, a small percentage of women.

can orgasm from intercourse alone and maybe even think that that is the best activity for them they happen to be a very loud minority but yeah just because that's not you doesn't mean that something is wrong with you yeah so it's okay if there are certain sexual acts that you don't like. The fact that this person says, I'm not into foreplay as a whole. I'm curious about that. I'm like, what do you think of as foreplay? I mean, I read this. I read this initially. If I was talking.

to this person right here, I would be like, let's clarify because my suspicion is what you mean is I'm not into oral. Mm-hmm. But yeah, I would be curious if you're like, I'm not into oral, I'm not into fingers, like none of it brings me pleasure. I would want to dig into that a little and be like, so, well, what does bring you pleasure? Does anything bring you pleasure? Is intercourse actually like...

better than all those things. I find that hard to believe. I don't know. I would want to know more because it sounds to me if you're telling me every single thing is not that enjoyable, then I'd be like, it sounds like there might be some other kind of blockages going on. Yeah. All right. I hope we have convinced you that foreplay is so much more than just 30 to 60 seconds of rub-a-dub, tug, lug, right before intercourse. Hopefully no lugging. It is an...

Experience in and of itself. Foreplay can deepen intimacy, build anticipation, make everything feel so much more connected and satisfying and just be pleasurable.

in and of itself and remember it doesn't even have to start in the bedroom foreplay for the next time starts the second that you're done and those flirty texts those playful touches simply being emotionally present nice to each other yeah just be nice those things all count too all right thanks so much for listening we drop new episodes every thursday so be sure to subscribe and tune in next week