The Other Powerful Joe—Manchin—Rules on Climate Change

I'm your host, David Schultz. So if you think back to last year round September October, back when there were projections Democrats would rack up huge majorities in Congress in the elections some people this podcast included, we're talking about all the climate policies this new Democratic dominated Congress would enact. Obviously, that did not happen. Democrats control the Senate by the mathematically smallest margin possible, and in the House their advantage

isn't that much bigger. So that means, since every vote is crucial, the most conservative members of the Democratic Caucus really really matter, and there aren't many Democrats more conservative than Senator Joe Mansion of West Virginia. So that means that any big climate bills probably need to get past Mansion to get to the President's desk. Oh And if that wasn't enough, the other senator from West Virginia, Republican, Shelley Moore Capital, is now the top Republican on the

Senate's Environment Committee. So clearly West Virginia, a state nearly synonymous with Cole, is going to have a huge amount of power over environmental legislation through this year and next. Bloomberg Government's Kelly Lunny just wrote a great story for our BusinessWeek magazine about all of this and about what West Virginians want their powerful senators to do. She says, actually, the outlook for climate hawks might not be as bad as you would think. I think they're both very cognizant

of their power. And let's not forget that there are only one hundred senators and they all have a lot of power because it only takes one to come up the works. But yeah, Senator Mansion is exceedingly powerful. I think he has said publicly, you know, he finds himself in this position sort of serendipitously in some respects, and that he intends to use the power that he has to enact legislation that he feels is bipartisan. And I think Senator Capito is also someone who, you know, she's

been there for a little while. She has carved out a niche for herself on different issues including environment and transportation and infrastructure. And I think the two of them are very seasoned politicians, but they also recognize that their power and their influence and the positions that the two of them find themselves in right now together are really advantageous to their home state, which you know, has not always gotten the attention or the resources that it needs. Yeah,

and let's talk about that. You know, I get the sense that I don't think it would be unfair to say that both Senator Mansion and Senator Capital are pro fossil fuel and specifically pro coal. Would that be accurate? And if so, I mean, what does that mean for the future of climate legislation in the next couple of years. Well, I think that the two of them are obviously from a very traditional fossil fuel producing state. Coal has been king in West Virginia for a very long time generations.

Of course, they're not the only state in the Union that produces a lot of fossil fuel energy but they, like many others, they recognize that the market is really driving a lot of the conversation right now around cleaner energy, and that this transition is happening whether people like it or not, because of economics more so than government intervention or political ideology. And so I think the two of them are pragmatic legislators. I think, you know, they are

not of extreme ideological bents. I think they want to work with their colleagues to get legislation done. You know, that doesn't mean they're going to sign on and endorse a Green New Deal anytime soon or ever. But I think they also recognize that there needs to be a balance there. They're certainly going to advocate for the needs of their state, and I think they, like others, recognize that the fossil fuels are not necessarily going anywhere anytime soon.

They're going to be part of that transition. It's not like flipping a switch and you know tomorrow we're all driving evs and having solar panels in our on our house. Yeah. I mean, you know, I have to imagine though, that climate activists in particular must be seen the situation as it is now in Congress, and you know, it must be pretty despairing for them, because I mean, Joe Mansion basically has a one man veto over like any legislation

in the Senate, Not exactly but almost. Is there any hope of like big you know, maybe not Green New Deal level, but big climate legislation passing in this Congress. I think that it depends on how you would define big climate legislation. You know, I think somebody from the Sunrise movement might have a different definition of that versus you know, even someone like a Senator Carper or or

a Senator Mansion. You know, for example, last year, when the Senate passed the Energy Package, there were was language in there about reducing hydrofluoric carbons and these are the chemicals that are are in our refrigerants that are really really you know, potent greenhouse gasses. Yes, and members of both parties were very They've made a lot of effort to get this across the finish line because it helps industry too. It helps the industry that makes those products

in our country compete on a global stage. But you know, a lot of people believe that that was very significant climate legislation. It doesn't necessarily get the headlines of a green New Deal, but it still is significant. The Senate recently passed a resolution to reinstate and Obama era rule on methane emission reductions. If the House passes that gets signed into law, that could have a significant impact too.

So I think that you know, you're going to hear people make the case that some of these quote incremental changes add up to a collective big deal and that not everything has to sort of be this grand proclamation piece of legislation that everybody comes together on and it gets passed in a dramatic fashion. A lot of a lot of work gets done incrementally over time. And you know, another thing we should really briefly mention is carbon capture.

That's something that I think, you know, lawmakers from both sides of the aisle, Republican and Democrat, are really favor if they're from a fossil fuel dependent state like West Virginia, because this is technology that would allow uh, you know, coal fired power plants to operate with fewer greenhouse gas emissions. I get the sense that not all environmental activists love

this though, right, That's that's true. A lot of them don't, a lot of them feel like there's problems even with that because there could be leakages, and it's it's you know, the technology isn't necessarily where it needs to be to be completely you know, full proof and efficient. But you know, by the same token, you have to think about it as as one of the tools in the toolbox, if

you will, to try to reduce emissions. And it is something that Democrats and Republicans you know, pretty much agree on. And that's where at least now a lot of the investments, a lot of the money the Congress is putting into energy efficiency. That's that's where a lot of it is going because it is about research, technology development, and it's you know, it's a way to get at reducing these emissions.

That is you know, isn't as disruptive as shutting down, you know, a coal plant, right, So finally sort of

closing things out. You know. One of the things that I liked about your story is that you went to West Virginia, you know, for the story, and you talk to a lot of folks and you've got some great quotes from the state, and I got the sense that the view about the coal industry and the future of the coal industry has is very different there now than it was four years ago when Trump, uh, you know, first took office. Can you talk a little bit about that.

I just got the sense there was like a resignation that, you know, if Trump can't bring this back, no one can. That. That was the takeaway that I got from your story. Yeah, I think I think that's accurate. You know, I would preface my comments with that I was in one part of West Virginia. I was in southern West Virginia, in the Beckley area near New River Gorge, which was just

named a National park late last year. And sorry to interrupt, I should say I have also been there, not for reporting, not for business, but for pleasure, and it is a lovely part of the country. Everyone should that. I would recommend it. It is beautiful. But yes, there is a sense that, you know, Cole is not going to be the force that it was that. You know, I wouldn't say that people are running around saying Cole is dead and you know, we're ready to move on to the

next chapter. But I think that the fact that Trump said he was going to bring back beautiful, clean coal, and he tried to do that, and he tried to you know, help the coal companies out in that industry out, and it didn't work, because you know, this is an industry that market forces have been disrupting and has been in decline for years. It's really at this point beyond

sort of any one politicians powers. So I think that people recognize that, and I think, you know, there was there's also sort of a sense of a little bit of resentment and hurt feelings that are left over from the Obama era and the Clean Power Plan, and you know, some of the that administration's rhetoric around clean energy and fossil fuel communities, and you know, people in West Virginia have some of them have a very negative feeling about how they were treated and how they felt that they

were not part of a transition to another economy and that they were left behind. And I think that's why you see President Biden his administration, this was included in his job's plan. He's had separate fact sheets and other announcements about just transition, including coal communities, revitalizing coal country.

You've seen a lot of attention paid to that because they are cognizant of the fact that that is that is a problem for them, that they have to communicate that, not just communicate, but really put their money where their mouth is and help people you know, who are willing to transition to a new job and new skills, but they can't, you know, they can't do it on their own.

They need help, and they need to you know, they need to have an administration and a roadmap to do that in a way that's going to be able to allow them to live their lives the way they've been living them. And it sounds like the you know, two senators from West Virginia, with their you know, with all the power that they have now in Congress, are going

to try to make that happen. But that could you know, slow things down for some of the big kind of uh, you know, epoch making climate legislation that I think a lot of people had hoped would would finally come. I think that's a fair I think that's a fair assessment.

You know, like any senator or really any representative in Congress, they care about their constituents, they care about their state, and they are in a position to really to really help their state, especially at a time when they are in you know, sort of an economic and cultural crossroads. So that's always going to be at the forefront of their of their minds as they legislate on these types of policies. Yeah, all right, Well that was Kelly Lenny

speaking to us from Washington, DC. Kelly with the Bloomberg Government. Thank you so much for talking with us. Thank you for having me. David. That's it for today's episode of Parts for Avillion. If you want more environmental news, check us out on Twitter. If you use the handle at environment I'm at David B. Schultz. That's b as in then a drill. Today's episode of Parts for Billion was produced by myself, David Schultz. Parts for Billion was created

by Jessica Combs and Rachel Dagle. Our executive producer is Josh Block. Thanks everyone for listening. Hi, I'm Laura Carlson and then I'm dropping into your feed to tell you about Prognosis, a new daily show from Bloomberg Monday for your Friday. We'll spend a few minutes with you every afternoon to help you understand life in the time of COVID nineteen. The show was available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen. So come back every afternoon for our coverage and stay safe.