EPA Grudgingly Embraces Telecommuting Amid Pandemic

not most, of you, I am working from home. It goes without saying, but the coronavirus outbreak is changing daily life for seemingly every American, and that includes the Americans who work at the EPA. As of the recording of this podcast on the afternoon of March seventeenth, the federal government is still open and functioning. But today we're asking how exactly is it functioning? And with us today to break this down is Stephen Lee. He covers the EPA

workforce and other environmental issues for Bloomberg Law. So, Stephen, what exactly is the EPA doing to protect its employees from the virus and to prevent them from inadvertently spreading it? I know telework has been one of the big things that a lot of work, you know, office places have done. What's going on at the EPA with this. Well, yesterday, the EPA told its employees across the nation that they

are free to telecommute and take unscheduled leave. That's consistent with guidance that came out from the White House Office of Management and Budget on Sunday. EPA says they're staying in close contact with you know, regional leaders and employees across the country with information that is specific to their regions. And they also say that they don't have any confirmed cases of employees or infected with coronavirus, at at least

at their headquarters. Yeah, they're still open, and they say they're still working to protect human health and the environment. Right now, it's not clear how field enforcement is being affected or whether it's being affected. But again EPA says they're still on the job and they're they're still out there and we should we should say field enforcement are when the EPA employees go to factories or other locations that are emitting pollution and make sure they're not emitting

too much pollution. So you're saying that is unclear if it's still continuing right, Well, again, APA has said that you know, there has not been a change in uh an enforcement or in inspections. But you know, of course, we're only a couple of days into this self quarantine, so we'll we'll keep an eye on and see how

that develops. Yeah, it's interesting that the e PA is now encouraging tellwork, and it's interesting because the agency has resisted giving its employees more telework options in the past. Uh they've been negotiating with AFGE, which is the main union that has represents a majority of EPA employees, and the EPA has been very resistant to expanding telework options in those negotiations. Why were they resistant before and do

you think that'll change? The EPA says that they see a real value in people being in the office more. They want veteran workers to spend more time in the office to help mentor younger employees, especially while the agency is losing so many veteran workers due to retirements. And they also say they haven't eliminated telework, they've just reduced it basically from two days per week to one with

some exceptions. Will it change things? I mean, you wouldn't think so, based on how much the EPA under this administration seems to want people to be in the Office. EPA employees have long been able to work from home two days per week, and they say that it's been

working well and it was very good for productivity. And this administration went in and actively reduced the work at home provisions in the most recent labor contract that's up for negotiation, and the PA has said that they are willing to talk about that, but nevertheless, you know, the fact that they changed those work from home provisions is a strong indication I think of how how how much the Trump EPA values people being at their desks in

the office. Are there specific environmental reasons why they you know, the EPA under this administration wants people to be working at their desks. Like, are there things that the EPA does that are unique to environmental protection that require someone to be at the office or is this just a government wide philosophy in this administration that telework should be discouraged and people should be coming to the office. Yeah, I have heard that at other agencies, you know, they're

seeing the same thing. Telework is being restricted or limited. You know. As far as whether the EPA's mandate or mission has changed since you know, previously, I don't know that that's the case. I I really do think this is just a shift in philosophy. Ye, well that was, of course before the coronavirus outbreak. We'll see how those negotiations change moving forward. I can't imagine any way that the tenor doesn't change, but it'll be interesting to see.

We're going to take a quick break right now, but when we come back, we're going to talk about other ways that the Trump administration has changed the way that the EPA operates and changed the way that EPA employees do their jobs. Stay with us, and we're back and we're talking with Bloomberg Laws Stephen Lee, who covers the environment about EPA employees and how they are working or are not working, I guess during the coronavirus outbreak. But I want to get into something a little bit broader.

You know, the Trump administration has really made a lot of changes at the EPA for EPA employees. And one of the things they've done is they've brought in this concept called lean management. And so before we get into how it's working at the EPA, what exactly is lean management and where did it come from. Lean management is a production method that dates back I think to the nineteen thirties. Toyota developed it way back when, and it's really about cutting out waste and focusing on the steps

in a job that bring the most value. So let's find out where the choke points are, let's see what we can do to eliminate them. You know, let's make sure we are spending as much time and energy as possible on the steps that bring value to the customer. That sounds obvious and maybe kind of self evident when I describe it like that, but there actually is a whole methodology behind it, and it does work, been proven in many industries over the years, and EPA has been

doing it for years as well. So the EPA has been doing it for a while. But it sounds like the Trump administration is really ramping up and wanting to bring the sort of private sector management style into the public sector, especially the EPA. Is that right, Yeah, that's right.

What EPA has done under the leadership of Henry Darwin, who's very high ranking I think is the assistant Deputy Administrator, is put their own spin on lean management, and basically that consists of, you know, using visual boards mounted on walls so everyone can track their team's progress on a daily basis, holding weekly meetings to make sure everyone's on the same page. They've put their own kind of twist on lean management that's been done for a while. And

how is it working out? I mean, there are things getting more efficient, you know, or is the EPA operating better or are there some things that just sort of don't translate to this lean management philosophy at the EPA. Well, the EPA says it's working well, and they do have a lot of evidence to support that. One example that I like is that, you know, they had thirteen thousand dead links on their website and so you click something

doesn't go anywhere. They wanted to fix that. They applied lean management and you know, their own spin on lian management, and now that number is down to less than two thousand dead links in a pretty short amount of time. They've also dramatically cut down the amount of time that's required to get certain kinds of permits and certain kinds of grants. But what a lot of EPA employees say is that lean management doesn't work for a white collar,

bureaucratic type of job. You know. They say it might work on a production line if you're making bicycles where there's you know, certain steps that have to be followed, and there are real choke points that have a direct effect on productivity. If a bolt isn't getting to the right place at just the right time, that can slow down production. You know, maybe just a little bit, but if you've got hundreds of little snags like that, it all adds up and it can cost a company a

lot of money. That's in a production environment. In a government office, if your job is to you know, let's say, analyze legal arguments or policy issues, it's just not the same kind of environment. And that's why some EPA staffers say lean management just is not a good fit for the kind of work that they do. Darwin has said that if that is happening, that's because maybe someone has chosen the wrong goal or maybe they've misapplied the principles

of lean management. And it's also worth saying that there are EPA employees who say it has worked. That's just not what I hear from most of the rank and file. So overall, though, what do you think, right, I guess what have you been able to gather from all the

conversations that you've had. Do you think that it is working in the EPA employees who don't like it are just sort of you know, bureaucrats who are you know, resistant to change or do you think that the people who criticize it within the EPA have a point that this is not something that makes sense in a white collar environment, and especially not in a government public sector environment where there may be other values aside from you know, producing as many widgets as you can and making as

much profit as you possibly can. Well, Henry Darwin has said that he knows change is hard. There are people who, you know, just aren't open to new ways of doing things. So you're going to get that in any large organization, particularly with people who maybe have been there a very long time and they're used to doing things a certain way. When I spoke with him, he compared, you know, working at an agency or any organization to playing on a basketball team. You know, you want to be playing on

a good team. When things are clicking and the team is winning, then that boosts everyone's morale. It makes everyone not only happier but also better at their jobs, and it's just good for everyone. But again, you've got a lot of EPA employees who say that lean management is just flat out a waste of time. People say, they roll their eyes at it. And I had one person tell me his team doesn't even do the required you know,

weekly meetings anymore. They kind of play lip service to it, but they essentially ignore the whole thing and just kind of go through the motions. And you know, the one big thing that a lot of EPA staff say is that even if lean management does work, even if it does improve productivity and cut out waste in certain areas, they don't think it's aimed at doing the one thing that the agency is supposed to do, which is protect

the environment and protect human health. So if people don't feel like they're fulfilling the agency's mission and that's the whole reason they went to work for EPA in the first place, then it seems to me that maybe that's not great for morale. Yeah. Well, and that along with having to work from home for an indefinite period of time when your you know, managers are sort of skeptical of working from home, is probably also not helping morale

at the EPA either, I would imagine. I think that's right. I mean, that's something that we're all going through. You know, we'll we'll yeah, we will see how it plays out. All right. Well, that'll do it for today's episode of Parts Provillion. Steven and our other reporters are definitely still on the beat, so check out their great work at our website, Newstop Bloomberg Environment dot com. That website, once

again is newstot Bloomberg Environment dot com. Today's episode of Parts Pavilion was produced by myself along with Josh Block and Marissa Horn. Parts Pavilion was created by Jessica Coombs and Rachel Dagel. The music for today's episode is a message by just Are and Upstate by Henning Schmidt's. They were used under a Creative Comments license. Thanks for listening every week. Taxes and accounting are complicated, but finding a good tax podcast shouldn't be. I'm Siri Vlusu and I'm

Amanda Icone. Listen to Talking Tax, the podcast that breaks down all of these issues on a weekly basis. Every Thursday, Talking Tax will explain the latest issues for you, from what Congress is working on to legal rulings to the global digital tax debate. Download and subscribe to Talking Tax wherever you get your podcasts.