Coronavirus Is in Air, on Surfaces and Even in Sewage

has to be the issue of testing. We here in the US are nearly three months into this thing, and it seems like we still haven't totally figured out how to effectively test everyone who needs to be tested. Even figuring out who needs to be tested is still an issue. But maybe that's because we're thinking about this too narrowly. What if instead of testing people, we tested other things.

I think you see where I'm going with this. The coronavirus exists out in the environment, in water, soil, even air. What if we could develop methods to do environmental testing that could give scientists a huge level of insight into where the virus is now and where it may be. And according to reporting from Sylvia Carrig, then scientists are asking the EPA to get on this issue and develop a standard method to do environmental testing of coronavirus, and

Sylvia joins us today. Sylvia, Hello, Hi David. So obviously, when we're talking about the coronavirus, there's a ton that we don't know, so that's going to be a big caveat for this whole episode. But is it possible to test for the presidence of coronavirus in the environment? Can you actually take an air sample and find out how much coronavirus is in the air? Say so, eventually we will be able to Generally, when I think about the environment,

I think about like forests and streams and lakes. But EPA also regulates parts of the built environment, like indoor air and sewage, where it's more likely for this virus to be found. So there's already been some research done on things like aerosols, like what happens when you sneeze

and the drop let's go out into the air. But EPA's science advisors are pushing the agency to test things like indoor air and whether it can spread through an air conditioning system or a heating system, So that'll be good to know, Like, for example, when we reopen schools workplaces. Are we able to test for that? Yeah, that's such an overlooked area of work that EPA does. I feel like the office that covers indoor air is such a

you know, gets you know, such short shrift. But they do a lot of really cool stuff, like with they do radon and you know, I think they also handle Legionaire's disease and things where there's environmental polludance in buildings in the built environment, and so that's it sounds like

that's where they're really focused right now. That's true, And like you mentioned Legionaire's disease, there is some precedent for EPA testing for viruses, like, for example, they worked on some of the anthrax issues that we had years ago, so there's sort of a baseline there for them to work from. But they haven't had to work with this kind of virus yet. So we're talking about testing for the coronavirus in buildings in offices, which you know, I'm all for since I live in a building and work

in an office, or I used to at least. But let's talk about sewage. That's something that I think people have been talking about, like is it possible to do sampling at water treatment plants and find out like where the coronavirus is depending on what people are flushing down their toilets. Is that a real thing? Is that something that is even possible or and what is the EPA is involvement in that. EPA is working on it. They

haven't figured it out yet. They're working on a test that can find the virus inn untreated sewage, so whatever is just coming from your toilet out into the sewer system. The EPA is hoping that kind of test could be used to determine the spread of the virus through a specific postulation over time. So if they're able to effectively track that, that could essentially act as an early warning system to just determine if the number of cases is

trending up, for example. Yeah, that would be amazing, but like I just have to it's so hard because there's so much stuff that goes into toilets. Yes, you know what I mean. It's true, it's also storm water. It's also you know, run off from you know, farms or streets, and so it's like there's just so much stuff in there that it would seem like it would be hard to isolate the coronavirus and test. It sounds like they're

working on it. They are working on it, that's true. Well, that's good, But it sounds like the EPA is working on a lot of stuff. And so we're going to take a quick break, and when we come back, we're going to be talking about the EPA's priorities here and whether they are shifting to focus on the coronavirus or whether they have a lot of other stuff they need to be keeping an eye on. So stay with us,

we'll be right back. All right, we're back, and we're here with Sylvia Kragnan, and we're talking about how the EPA can make it easier to detect the coronavirus in the environment. So what exactly is the EPA doing. You mentioned they're working on it. They're working on ways to detect coronavirus in buildings and in offices and maybe even in sewage. What exactly were they doing? So they're working on a variety of things, including those tests that we mentioned.

They're also looking at potential long term disinfectants, so if you touch a surface, there will still be some disinfectant there that is effective. So we're not talking about just like bleach like stuff that lasts a lot longer than that. Right, So, especially in systems like the New York City Subway or the DC Metro, if they want to have trains that can run all day and still be safe for people to use, they're going to need something that works a

little bit longer than a couple hours. They're going to need something that poplab books like at least all day. So that's one of the places where the EPA is stepping in. But the EPA Science Advisors think the best way for EPA to contribute is to create these environmental sampling protocols or best practices that anyone around the country can use. Maybe it's a CDC that wants to use them, maybe it's the Department of Defense, maybe it's a university lab.

So by creating the standard way of testing, they're sort of evening out of the playing field for everybody. Right, And we should actually say that the Science Advisors here are a group of independent scientists that the EPA has assembled to sort of guide its work in certain areas.

So it sounds like they're saying, like, yeah, disinfectants, you know, that's important, but really, what you need to be working on is coming up with this this sampling protocol, right, I'm a little surprised that the CDC or the NH aren't working on this. Why is this an EPA issue? Well, the CDC is working with the EPA to some extent, but certainly there's a lot of players here. Like there's companies that run labs like Eurofins, and they're already able

to sample services like countertops and keyboards for coronavirus. The EPA has its own or the Army has its own infectious disease research. So the EPA is going to have to work with a lot of different agencies to make sure that they're not duplicating and that they're able to share, you know, what they learn and learn from other agencies too. So in other words, it sounds like the Science Advisors want them to like take point on this, like just you know, not to have like a federal agency alphabet

soup that where everyone's duplicating each other's work. When it comes to environmental testing. The EPA should be the lead agency on that. That's right, the advisors saying that that's really the EPA's strong suit and that's where they can contribute the most to the pandemic. Well, finally, I also wanted to talk to you about the other things that the EPA is doing, because in addition to you know, maybe potentially coming up with environmental tests, they're just struggling

to do their sort of regular everyday work. Like we've talked about in the past, that they've cut back on enforcement. You know, maybe they've resumed some of that now that social distancing orders have been lifted, but permit writing is

difficult now just given staffing issues. How much of the EPA's work now during the pandemic is, you know, contributing to solving this crisis versus how much of it is just you know, keeping the lights on and doing the sort of environmental protection that you think of when you think of the EPA. Sure, so, ep IS coronavirus work has mostly been limited to the Research and Development Office.

Some of the other offices are somewhat working with them on this, but it sounds like it's mostly going to be limited to the research because, I mean, like you said, the agency still has a lot of rules to enforce, They have regulations to finalize. There's so many other things that they're also working on that the coronavirus is going to be a relatively small part of its time and resources. All right, Well, that's it for today's episode of Parts

per Billion. If you want more environmental news, check out our website news dot Bloomberg environment dot com. That website, once again is news dot Bloomberg environment dot com. Today's episode of Parsperbillion was produced by myself along with Josh Block and Maurissa Horn. Parts per Billion was created by Jessica Coombs and Rachel Daegel. The music for today's episode is a Message by Jizarre and Pelican by Ulffmeyer. They

were used under Creative Commons license. Thanks for listening. Hi, I'm Laura Carlson, and I'm dropping into your feed to tell you about Prognosis, a new daily show from Bloomberg. Monday through Friday. We'll spend a few minutes with you every afternoon to help you understand life in the time of COVID nineteen. The show is available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen. So come back every afternoon for our coverage and stay safe.