104. The Legend of the Iberian Lynx (with Carmen Rueda from CBD Habitat Foundation & The Lynx Connect Project) [Recorded Live @ Global Birdfair 2024]

Good morning, everybody. Thank you very much for coming along. If you're here to listen to the podcast that's about to be recorded.

Welcome back to Global Bird Fair. My name is Jack. I'm the host of Pangolin, the conservation podcast, which is a show that celebrates underappreciated stories in nature and conservation. And yeah, it gets to kind of know people who work with... species and projects and all sorts of amazing things and I'm very very excited because today I'm gonna finally get to talk with somebody about one of my favorite favorite favorite animals that

has never been featured on the show, shockingly, The Lynx. And to do that, I am joined by Carmen Rueda, who works for CBD Habitat Foundation and The Lynx Connect Project. So first of all, thank you so much for joining me today, Carmen. Oh, thank you. Thank you for inviting me.

It's a pleasure for me to talk about lynx. This is my passion. So I'm very happy to be here. No, that's brilliant. And I'm so excited. And I, yes, whenever I have someone who's so excited about one particular species, I always am like, I want to get into it and I want to know everything.

about them because it's my opportunity to get like a one-on-one private tuition lesson about this thing so i'm like so excited so so so excited um i guess to get us started the best thing to do would be like i kind of gave the very brief linkedin header description of your job of like what you do, but like...

Could you introduce yourself to the listeners, kind of tell the audience kind of a little bit about, yeah, what you do, kind of, yeah, who you are? Yeah, sure. Yeah, I'm Carmen. I'm a biologist. And since I was, like, very young, I... I knew that I wanted to do something about species and the planet, you know, and these kind of things. But you don't really know what. And, you know, different things brought me to the links. And it's amazing because when I was a child...

And I remember to see on the TV, like the links, the Iberian links, because we are talking about Iberian links, that's an important point. It's a very high risk of extinction. For me to work with this species is like, you know, a dream. And I get there when the first reintroductions were done, in the very early stages of the reintroductions. working there for the last 10 years and I've seen like all the process and all the growth of this reintroduced populations and it's very exciting.

a lot of work a lot of work and and yeah but it's uh you know i i feel like very proud of what has been done not only for me but all my partners and the cbd habitat foundation has been working for the links for the last 23 years in partnership with the governments and the people of the land, which is very important.

And yeah, and I'm there. I'm there on all this process. So, yeah. And now I'm here. I'm very happy to be here. Yes, you're there to get to watch all of this exciting stuff happen and learn all these things and like face all the challenges and learn all the amazing things. It's, it's, yeah.

And we were joking before we came up here of like, we have 20 minutes to do 20 years and I think we can, we'll try and do our best to do some of like, pick out the highlights of that. Yeah, so that's brilliant. I guess like... Something that, like, we've kind of introduced you then, I guess, of, like, where you are now, what you're doing. I guess then...

Before we move on to introduce the other main character more formally, which is, of course, the Lynx, something that I guess, just to sit on for a second, is like...

What was it that kind of attracted you to that? I know you said that they were kind of obviously they're endangered and kind of you you were kind of intrigued by that. But like you said, there were so many different things that made you want to work with them. What were kind of those those main drivers to get into working with the link?

Yeah, actually it was... I mean, I was not looking for the links, you know. I was looking to do something with the species and at that moment I was in a Spanish region that is called Extremadura and it's quite famous because of bird watching and it's very nice.

place to go and I was working as a volunteer on a recovery center for wildlife species you know and I was there just and I was just looking for something to do I want to do something I want to go with these people to the field I want to know what are they doing I want help and and yeah step by step first of all i was just looking for rabbits that was that was my job to look for rabbits to find the places where the links can be maybe released and that was like my first job

And I spent like a whole summer, very hot summer in Extremadura. It's very hot in summer. Yeah, just walking and doing rabbit samples and to find like the right place. And that's why I... I get into the lynx world, you know, but I was not focused on that species. I just wanted to do something about the biodiversity of my region and I ended up there.

So yeah, amazing. That is really interesting. I think it's really fantastic as well when you kind of like have these moments where you realize actually the stuff that's around about me is really cool, really interesting, really special and needs... needs work done with it and for it and so you can kind of step into that I know I mean the work is amazing but you really have to be passionate about it because it's hard work you know it's a hard work and I mean you you You really need to feel that.

Yeah, I want to do more. I want to stay there. I don't mind if I have to wake up at four in the morning, you know. And I was there and I think that passion is very important in conservation because it's the driver of everything.

you know yeah that's I mean fantastic I feel like this is fantastic messaging to be putting out like passion important wonderful and yeah I think that's that's brilliant and I got I mean a small taste of the waking up at 4am when the sun came up this morning and I was sleeping in a tent like 200 meters down there so I can appreciate that like I've had it one day and I'm like a little delusional about where I am so that the hard work that must go in constantly day in day out is yeah a lot

Well, I guess now we've talked around you and your relationship and how you found the Lynx. But we've kind of ignored for a second here the main character of this story, which is, of course, the Lynx. And so...

For people who maybe don't know a lot about the Iberian lynx or lynx in general, could you give us a little introduction to the species and tell us a little bit about what makes it unique, special? Yeah, tell us about the lynx. Yeah, well, you know, there are four... species of lynxes in the world and they're very links I think that maybe they're the thing that

Yeah, they are only on the Ivarian Peninsula. In the past, they were around all the Ivarian Peninsula, but in the early 20s, well, in 2002, they were only left in two populations, in Doñana. and the Sierra de Andujar in Andalucía, and there were only like 100 lynxes left. The other lynx species have a very wide distribution around the world, you know, and the Canadian lynx and their bobcat.

They have a very wide range. But the Iberian links is only on the Iberian Peninsula. And 20 years ago, there was only two different small populations isolated. And for example, in Doñana, there were only like 30 links. That means like, I don't know, five reproductive females? So can you imagine how... Yeah, and we went there in a very short period of time. I mean, we've lost most of the Ivarian lynx populations on the 20th century, you know, very, very fast.

And we just realized that we were losing it when this study was done at 2002. We thought that maybe there were, I don't know, 1,000 links left. And there were not 1,000, it was 100 Lynxes left.

And then we have to work very quickly because we were losing the species and this species is unique in the world. We only have them here and they are very... special you know i don't know if you know how iverian lynx looks like but they are handsome they are beautiful yeah and and yeah it's uh you know we were we were about to lose uh one of the most beautiful species that we have

and we had to work very quickly and all together. That's very important, all together. From scientists to governments to people on the land, that's very important. with a lot of, I mean, yeah. very few individuals. The genetic issues are also there, so we needed to mix the different populations to try to raise the genetic variability.

So many, many factors were working there. And the rabbits. And the rabbits. And the rabbits. Yeah, I noticed that when I was doing my research, there was a whole part of the website that I was reading all about the rabbits. Yes. They've secretly stuck with... you since the beginning that's the key the rabbits are the key yeah so do you want to explain what you like because like we've talked about how they kind of where they are

where the what the challenge was generally but how did they get to that point a lot of that was to do with the rabbits right and yeah yeah so well um i think the the point i mean we have two different factors that bring us to this situation One of them is that Ivarian lynx is a very nice animal, but it's a carnivore. So for years and years, they have been killed for people. First, even legally. I mean, government pay people to kill the lynxes.

Then it wasn't protected in the 60s, but people still was killing lynxes because they killed, I don't know, hens or lambs or whatever, or even hunters just steal lynx and it's like, okay, a complete... a competitor. I don't know if that works. The links disappeared in many areas because they were systematically persecuted.

Also with the rabbits, you know, well, maybe you don't know, but there are two different diseases that affect rabbits. One is myxomatosis and the other is the hemorrhagic disease. and that affected a lot the Iberian rabbit populations and in many areas even the rabbits disappeared. I know that you here in the UK have the same problem and I read the last day.

that here the hemorrhagic disease affected to 95% of the rabbit population or something like that. Imagine that on the Iberian Peninsula where our most known carnivores... not only also raptors, they feed on rabbits. So we have the Iberian lynx, but we have also the big eagles, Bonelli's eagle, Iberian imperial eagle, many different animals feed on rabbits.

So that was a crash on the ecosystem. When the rabbits went down, all these animals also disappeared because they don't, I mean, they can eat other things, but they need this. prey species to survive and to breed and to stay in a territory. So these two factors, mainly these two factors together.

They disappeared in many regions of Spain where they were abundant in the past. And the links just went the same way. Yeah, it makes perfect. If there's not the food, if there's not these kind of things, then there's that persecution. Yeah, it's coming at them from multiple angles. It's difficult to be a lynx in this situation. Yeah, if there was one, maybe you could bounce back, maybe, or it wouldn't be as drastic. But when you've got both of those kind of compounding things...

that's a dangerous situation to find yourself in as a Lynx. And so I guess then it also provides challenges for the Lynx, but it provides challenges for you. And you were saying that you have to bring together different parties to kind of talk about this and how you can fix this and how you can kind of... yeah rebalance this and trying to work on this issue um how did you kind of yeah what does what do the projects that you're working on do to try and kind of yeah

turn this story around and kind of bring these animals back yeah i well first of all i think that society in general has changed a little bit mentality okay um also i think that the situation was dangerous there was so I mean they were just disappearing that all the people realized about this they were conscious

and they were going to lose and for example in places where links were abundant you talk with the hunters and they say yeah my grandfather have links on the on the yeah on the house and it's like okay but they know that there were lynxes in there and they are not anymore and I think that they think about this like okay we have done this and do we have the right to extinct species only because

They eat rabbits? It makes no sense. And the risk was so evident that they start to work with us at the same point. Now the species... recovering and and and they are I mean they they look to the links is like okay it's an animal that is in my land and it's fine and I see it in the morning and they have names that's very important to involve the people with it with the conservation

you have to involve them on all the actions and for example on the reintroductions when we release a Lynx we invite a whole village to come that day to see the Lynx coming out of the cage and that Lynx has a name and and we to talk about this this this concrete animal that you have there and who is there who is him and where it comes from and how is he doing and if he for example imagine that he

I don't know, at the end he is killed on the road by a car. We want to talk about this too, and we want people to know. And yeah, do you remember the mail that we released 60 months ago? Now he is dead. because a car killed him here, especially here. So if you go there, be careful. You have to talk a lot with the people.

And they get into it with you because it's very exciting to see how they do. And the stories, you know, I love the stories of the lynxes. Each lynx has a name. We have all the lynxes, Iberian lynxes, have a name. And we know

everything about them and that's very important to involve the people on its conservation too. And I think it's something that we sometimes take for granted especially in spaces like this right where we are all here because we love a certain thing and we kind of want to work around a certain thing.

and we have been lucky enough a lot of us to have these opportunities to go into nature and see these things and have these moments where we are exposed to beautiful birds or wildlife or lynx or whatever it is

but like a lot of people don't have that opportunity and have just has not been in their consciousness and they've not kind of and so by bringing them and forming these connections and giving that opportunity not just to kind of connect with the links but also maybe find that spark that maybe they don't connect instantly with the links but they go

home and they think about other aspects of nature they start to appreciate other things that's a really nice way of kind of starting these discussions through a very charismatic interesting wonderful creature that's really fantastic that's really really fantastic yeah when we bring people to the field I mean

example with the kids or whatever yeah we are looking for the links but on the way we are talking about many other things we are talking about the birds and we are talking about the rabbits and we are talking about about the vegetation and we are talking about the landscape and at the end if we are lucky we can see links but that's like the yeah yes yeah that's yeah i think that's fantastic that is yeah that is brilliant and like

I guess then looking a little bit forward, like what are some of the projects you're working on now and kind of looking for things that maybe you'd be kind of excited about coming up in the next little while that you're working on? Yeah, well, the last 20 years have been like... this race to save the species. And now we, I don't know if you know it, but the species was critically endangered at the end of, well, 20 years ago, and recently has passed to vulnerable.

So, okay, we have more than 2,000 links on the wild right now between Portugal and Spain. So we are happy with this, but we are conscious that we have to keep on working, that the work is not... finished. Two thousand individuals are not too much. And we have a lot of land that is still... not colonized by lynxes. So now we have like a challenge because the findings have to keep coming but the species is not so endangered.

But the species is expanding and expanding to areas where we still didn't have time to work in. So the people there, we don't know how they are going to react. We don't know which are the dangerous points for the Linksys in there. prospective areas you know and the links are gonna be not alone because we will be there but it's more difficult to monitor each individual so so so focus on on this as in the past I mean, I remember when I started the first year, we released eight links.

and we were four people so we have two links for one people and so every day I check my like two links and they were like very monitored and we had like a lot of time to talk with the people of the lands and to go to the villages and talk to everybody and now there are much more links and less people working on this so let's see how we can manage this new situation but it's exciting because you

You see that there is a video on social media that, oh, someone saw an Iberian link, I don't know, Aragon, for example, which is in the north. And it's like, oh, they reached there already, you know, and they are reaching different.

areas and and and they are doing like themselves we don't they don't need our help actually but but it's good to be there because yeah especially because we talk you talk with the people and people that don't live with the links I mean, people that already live with them, they know that they are not dangerous, that they are fine, and it's beautiful to see them on the field, and everything's fine.

But on the new areas, they have to get to this point. And that's the challenge now. Yeah, that's really interesting. It must be like that thing of like, yes, after 20 years, if you'd been raising a child, they'd be going away to university and finding their independence. Your Lynxes are doing the same. They've reached the age where they're going off and they're doing their own things. They're going to new places, exploring new things. Now we are more like on the distance.

you know looking what are they doing at the beginning we were intervening a lot a lot of management a lot of but we cannot keep on that because that's a lot of investment and a lot of personnel and now it's more like okay let's see what they do We keep an eye on you, but...

Now you start to walk alone. Yes, it's up to you now. That's so exciting. I think it's actually reaching a perfect point for the timing we kind of have, because we only have, unfortunately, about another five minutes left. Yeah.

we've done a good job condensing that story but um yes at some point i feel like you're going to be getting an email from me being like do you want to come on the podcast for a longer episode and talk about this at some point because i'm so i feel like there's well so much more to dig into um but at this point i think

what we can kind of move on to is we've talked about the links and we've kind of left it there with quite a hopeful, nice kind of message. And I think there's these questions that I've been asking all of my guests at Bird Fair and just some quickfire questions to kind of wrap up.

thoughts on um and so the first of those is if someone's been listening to this and is feeling inspired and wants to do something or wants to kind of get involved in conservation what would be your top piece of advice for them Well, if you want to do something, the first thing I want to say is that, I mean, if you want to go to, I don't know, South America, Africa, wherever, you can do it. But you can do it also from your yard, from your house. And that's very important.

It's a change of mentality. I don't know. I can do small things on my day. And that's the... I think that's even... the most important thing and then if you have time and if you want you can i mean there are lots of projects around the world with very good organizations that are doing a great job and and if you just

look for them you will find them and and and we are I mean we want to receive people to help you know we were we are looking for people to come in this case to Spain but if you go to around the world there are a lot of organizations working on this and I would say local organizations are very important as well so if you can do it something on your town

Yeah, well, but there's people in other towns on the world working on amazing projects. You can just contact them and say, I want to do something. What can I do? And they will tell you. Yes, that's a brilliant piece of advice. I think brilliant, brilliant, brilliant.

the second quickfire question I have for you is what is because usually the podcast is about underappreciated things and usually I say what is your favourite underappreciated species but for bird fair what is your favourite underappreciated bird okay i am i really like uh nocturnal birds of prey i love them and and i would say my favorite is the long-eared uh owl yeah i love them i have a

couple on my yard and and every year i see like the chicks and it's i love them i love them i think that's a brilliant one and a good reason for local connections if you had them in your yard then they are that's why it's like I think that's the thing yeah every morning when I visit my parents there my dad will sit and just have conversations with the blue tits and stuff that turn up in his garden like that those local things are so important um and then I guess the final final thing to ask

is if there is a kind of, yeah, like if people have been listening and are intrigued by your work and learning more, where would you direct them to learn more about the Lynx projects? Well, I would say go to the... the CBD Habitat Foundation website or social media. They have amazing projects, not only with the link. If you want to know about the links, it's fine. You can find there all the information and updates and things. But they work with other species and in other parts.

Spain and in Africa as well and just have a look there and you will find information so CBD Habitat Foundation Yeah. Dot com or whatever. Perfect. Perfect. Perfect. No, that's brilliant. And while, of course, while everyone is on social media and on all of these places, looking at these websites, if you're online anyway, you can follow Pangolin, the conservation podcast at Pangolin.

in podcasts on all social medias and we're on spotify and apple podcasts and everywhere so go and follow all of those things um yeah have a listen to other episodes and go and check us out there as well um and with that and that

shocking bit of self-promo I put in at the end there just because I have an audience here so I might as well thank you so much for joining me today Carmen it's been fantastic I've loved every minute of our conversation I am so inspired and yes thank you so much for your time Thank you for inviting me. Thank you so much for having me. Thank you, thank you, thank you. And yes, thank you everybody else who is listening, whether that be online or here.

talk to you all soon I'll be here all day come and say hi and ask me any questions and all sorts of things and yes there'll be another podcast starting in just a few minutes on this stage so thank you so much thank you