Now on overnights order, the Prime Minister has to call. Thanks missus streaker.
It's the week in Politics with Terry barrs. He's cold and he's tired and he wants to get to bed, but first there's business to be done. How are you.
Good morning, Bill? Yes, I am cold and I am tired, and the warmest plays I can think of.
Susan Lee. Is she dragging the Libs to the left?
Well something? Going from her National Press Club speech yesterday, I'd have to say that whenever somebody from the right of politics talks about modern Australia, that means taking it to the left effectively. She admitted that that Liberals were smashed in the mayfiederal election. That's not that's the truth.
But her solution, as far as I can see, is that she wants to talk about modern Australia and modern Australian values and not timeless Liberal party values, or timeless center right or conservative or even well liberal well well liberal value is She lost me when she gave the acknowledgment of country right at the beginning, not because that's wrong in itself, but it sent a very clear coded message that she is not going to fight the culture wars.
She's not going to actually talk to a base. She's going to talk to well, she's going to talk to the rest of the country I think, And of course if they want to regain government, the littles have to do that. They actually have to respect their base as well.
I get the sneaking feeling that as a moderate Liberal MP, she respects the moderate part of the Liberal Party that doesn't have much time with the conservative part and that's going to be a very interesting, well battle to be fought internally over the next couple of years if she survived that long.
What wasn't this the issue at the last election? You had all these factions inside the party pulling it to the left and that's how they ended up in so much disarray.
Well that's very very true, and I think the support that she got to become leader by not many it's over Angus Taylor, who is seen as being on the conservative wing, sort of highlights that and then certainly some of her key shadow cabinet appointments has highlighted that as well.
My sense is, yes, I think the Liberals have to look at the reality of modern Australia and what it is, what Australian's aspirations are, but I think they also need to explain to to many people, particularly the young, that the Times values that Bob Benzies stood up or that Liberals had stood up or since the founding of the party eighty years ago, in terms of smaller government, in terms of greater personal sospils, in terms of the role of the family in the community, the sense that people
determine their own destinies and that don't have to well co live their lives with government. I mean those things mattered to to civil society in mindview. I think people on the right not very good at communicating that too, particularly younger people who have been educated I think in a very progressive for education culture all the way from kindergarten to university and really have been for decades now. And my sense his Liberals have lost those and they're
struggling him to actually make any ground with them. However, I don't think by simply saying, well, look, they didn't like who we were in May, I like who we are in June. If we basically talk like them, it's not going to work.
Yeah, I see that Tony Abbott has voiced strong support for the US bombing campaign against Iran. He's been quite vocal lately. Is it too late for Abbot because he really could be the man of the moment now, especially given the current climate.
Well, certainly, I think I'm sure. In fact, I'm pretty certain that Tony Abbott misses the opportunity to influence Australia's place in the world and the only way he could as Prime minister.
I mean, that's pretty much like all ex prime ministers.
Well, indeed, there's something more exce than ex prime minister, as they say. But look, I think the one thing about Tony Abbott, whether you agree with him or like him or not, is that you knew what he's still for, what he believed in. He did make any bones about that.
And I think, actually, funnily enough and ironically enough for Tony, and I'm talking to somebody who's worked with him and known him for a long time and consider him a friend, is that he's probably learned how to communicate and talk about ideas and values and international politics, particularly much more effectively than when he was in Parliament when he was
Prime Minister. And in that sense, I think he's become very comfortable as an elder statesman and I think earned a lot of respect from even people who opposed him when he was in well certainly when he's Prime Minister. So I think in the twenty odd years he was in politics.
Yeah, there's just a couple of silly decisions there. So could he get back in and be a player again or is it too late for that now?
Well, look he is well into his sixties now, so probably it is too late. And if there's nothing more X than an X, going back and being an ex in parliament is probably not the best way to use his influence, I mean, and that's the thing. He does have influence now, just like John Howard has influence in a way that perhaps he wouldn't have done if he were still in Parliament, were in office. But we need those elder statesmen, but we also need, I think the
current generation to actually step up and perform. And part of the problem that the federal Liverpool, scott and that state level around the country is a desperate problem is the depth of the talent pool MPs as well muddy puddlers of that, the size of it. So the best people are not going into politics, not just talking about women at Susan Lee was at the Press Club yesterday.
I think we're talking about men and women of capability, of talent, of experience, expertise who just art attracted by a political career, probably because people like you and I talk about and the slings about narrows of public life a really quite nice these days, and social media has made them a hell of a lot worse than it was, say even in John Howard's time.
Well, that's right, but it doesn't just pertain to politics. It pertains to every area of life. If you're on Facebook, you're a target.
Well, look at our civil discourse is coarsening.
Absolutely can't.
I can't agree with that more, you know, and I think in our politics is reflecting that, and that's that's not good for the country. It's and it's not just here, it's around the world. I mean, we'll talk about certain man of Orange and.
You know, I knew you as soon as you paused there, I knew where you were going to go. So let's talk about never say never again. What Donald Trump made a good comeback. He's gone to NATO, He's had one hell of a week. He dropped the dropped the F bomb, which some people have said, well, it's on brand. So now there's the NATO sucking up text. Let's talk about that.
Well, the NATO sucking up text, and it's actually not only private. Donald Trump leaked it because he obviously loved it. It's i mean, the Secretary General of NOTAO from the Dutch Prime Minister Mark Ruther really laid on with the troal. I mean, it's just amazing that the brown nosing. I mean, he brown nosed so much that I think I don't think you can see his head, but certainly he texted Donald Trump while he was flying over and well it's a longish text, but I'll just quote a bit of it.
Mister President did Donald congratulations and thank you for your decisive action in around that was truly extraordinary and something no one else did to do. It makes us all safer. You are flying into another big success in the Hague this evening. It was not easy, but we've got them all signed on to five percent. That's GDP on defense. Donalds, you have driven us to a really really important moment for America and Europe. And he just goes on and on.
But he also did this publicly. He did this publicly, yet at the DATO meeting where he had his bilateral with the president and talk similar amage. He used that that that phrase at the start of his text, mister President, dear Donald. Then he talked about daddy talking tusks looking children. It was extraordinary.
Yeah, I just again, I go back to two thoughts. One, head your bets and secondly, in the words of Nixon, he might be a mad man, but he's our mad man.
Well, I think I think there was a back in the day. I think it was FDR who talked about a certain South American dictator and said that he made a son of that. You know what, but he's our son of you.
That's the thing about Donald Trump. He would have said the full expletive. Jim Chalmers dismissing NATO's defense spending policy, let's talk about that. Where are we at with that? What are your thoughts?
Well, certainly we just talked about Mark Ruther of NATO is saying that, oh there, I signed up to five percent. Isn't that wonderful? Whereas a Treasury yesterday made it very clear that, particularly in the discussion that he started about tax and tax reformers, that we're doing quite fine, very much, thank you, very with our two and a bit percent over the next few years, thank you very much. We
don't see any need to change that. I mean, effectively, he was being very dismissive, brushed it off, effectively saying that any debate about our defense spending is off the table. And that's really reinforcing comments that the Prime Minister made off the cuff a week or so ago. We've effectively said, we decided what we spend our money on circumstances in
which we spend it. But certainly, I think given that the US is driving the NATO, all lies to increase their defense spending, no matter how much fawning and flattery goes with it. The fact that even the Canadians, who have underperformed compared to even Australia in terms of their ben spending and prepared to up it to three percent
more of GDP, we're starting to be lagged. If we want to have if we want to have the influence not just with the President Trump, but in terms of the regional security and world security, we actually have to put our money on the table. We have to put our willingness to play our part on the table. And we've had this well, we've had this shadow game conning over last fortnight. Haven't we about Donald Trump? Meeting has
now been easy? But really, why should the president meet mister Alben easy when Australia is not just in terms of being wishy washy and merely mouthed in terms of its foreign policy, but certainly being absolutely totally unwilling and refusing to come to the party when it comes to contributing more to our ownness.
That's funny. If you wanted to take the pulse of the nation, you could listen to this radio station and the listeners and they would tell you straight away, above cost of living, above trying to buy a house, first and foremost is defense spending with all of our listeners pretty much, and it's strange that they're just not being listened to.
Well, I think that's right, and I think we have to debate about the level of defense spending. We also have to talk about quantity quality as well as quantity, that we're actually buying stuff that is actually going to make us safe, that is actually going to do what we need to do, is fit for purpose for what we needed to do, and certainly, and we've got to
put orcus into that equation. Yet put it aside, look at the rest of what we do in terms of our defense forces, our defense structure, our defense personnel, and certainly we do need to make sure that whatever we do is not only affordable, but it is effective, and that's going to be a challenge. But we tend not
to have these conversations. They're too difficult. And the political problem for the Labor government is after the election where they really put so much money into social spending, whether it there's Medicare and eis student that's whatever it happened to be. I mean, these commitments that they have made on the domestic side are so big and so budget consuming that it actually doesn't leave much room to do more in defense unless unless you actually raise taxes in
a significant way. That seems to be the message that Jim Charlmons is making in terms of taxes from the last couple of days. It's all about raising more revenue. It's not about using what revenue we have more efficiently in terms of the programs or services, not just defense, but domestic services as well. That my sense is we do need tax reform. We do need to actually look at our tax base. We need to look at making sure it works as fairly as possible and as efficiently
as possible. That we've also got to make sure that we don't we don't basically raise money to waste it. That's the other side of it. So doctor Chalmers was prepared to say, we do need to look at what we spend our money on, we do need to look at things, doing things better and smarter. But that also may mean we do less, that we might actually have to cut some things we can't know. That's binding the bullet on. The tough stuff is what government's all about.
And this government and so I come from the other side of politics, but this government seems very much into wanting to talk good views, but not talking about the fact that there is a cost to everything they do.
That's it. And one more thing, because I know you want to go to bed, and I mentioned getting the pulse of the nation. We've got in your notes here to talk about Antoinette Latooth receiving the seventy thousand dollars from the ABC over the sacking. I'm really surprised that you wanted to talk about this. I'm also surprised at how much traction this story is getting and how many people are talking about it. Why is that?
Well, look, I think it's something actually although she is coming from the left and particularly on the gaza issue at the two, I've got to pick on the ABC for the wrong reasons that yeah, she expressed the political view, but if you look at it, I mean, how many of their key people, how many of their their names, actually do exactly the same thing and get away with it. I mean, look what Laura Tingle for instance, said about Scott Morrison a few years ago in terms of videological
bastard trick. Look at their investigator, get investigative journalist Louise Milligan who has taken to court the deafination in terms of things that she had said printed and basically they were okay. But Anthrooninetteletu, who is a casual contractors entered for one week while somebody else is on leave. She made a comment about guard which I think showed that very much where she came from politically. That compared to well, compared to some of those other cases, you just wonder
what the fuss was about. I mean, it was one of those things that's the ABC management should have blown over. But the other thing is when it comes to it. She's got her seventy thousand dollars in COMPETI.
Well, that's it, not bad for three days work.
But they're talking about legal fees that in the minions the cost that the ABC will be up for hers and theirs, and really they realize that this is taxpayers money.
Well they tell the.
Shareholders money, it's not private money, it's taxpayers money. Well, they're doing the proverbial up against the wall.
Let me hit you with this scenario. Do you think maybe the ABC are reflecting the government's opinion at the moment, and that is not to have an opinion about anything.
Well, in these days, I think that's the safest thing. But the ABC charter actually demands that they be impartial and they actually look at all points of view. And certainly I think from me Antoinette Lato in terms of being high in the first place, said, you know, they're quite happy to accept people of her who left the center perspective, but if the cause of trouble, well they scarf it for one hundred miles an hour, but they still line up behind their names who might fall into
the same trap. So I just think there is a double standard there that within the ABC culture that allowed that to happen. But in terms of in terms of her being well effectively given the flick or a tweet, I'm not sure that's necessarily a good thing.
But again, you know, that goes back to what we were talking about earlier on about Facebook and about having an opinion and everything like that.
But this is the thing I think, to your professional I mean, do you know it's a good thing that you have opinionated journalists and commentators who attract listeners and viewers. But if they express those years and you actually them to express those years, you sort of have to stand with them.
Which it's really and this is a conversation, a longer form conversation for another time, but it's very interesting because if it's a spoken opinion, it seems to be more accepted than if it's a written opinion. If it's especially if it's a written opinion on social media, that seems to carry more weight and more implications than something you've written as an article or something I've said on the radio.
Why that is. But on the other hand, I mean, I'm here because I expressed you know, because you know I'm going to express opinions. Of course, reporting the news. When you when you're actually covering the news that you're expected to tweet your opinions on it, then the line's been blurred for quite That's it.
That's what I'm saying to you. You know that the social media opinion Twitter, Facebook and what have you, seems to carry more weight and implication again than say the written word in something that you may have written in the media or something that I would have said on the radio. I don't know why that is, but that's just, you know, the impression that I get.
Well, certainly I've written a couple of things on the mainstream in mainstream media actually last week or so. It's got me spotted bothered out. Okay, look it happens to us all.
But once you get seventy grand, you know who you can take to lunch.
Well, I, well, I don't get anything like seventy grand. Don't get anything, but certainly always enjoy talking to you.
Thank you so much, my friend. You are just too well for me. It's two SIPs of coffee. By the time I finish those, you'll be fast asleep in your pjs. Have a great night.
Thanks so much to you.