Dwyane Wade ON: Letting Go of Validation to Become Your Best Self

the number one health podcast in the world. Thanks to each and every single one of you that come back every week to listen, learn and grow. And I am so excited to be talking to you today. I can't believe it. My new book, Eight Rules of Love is out and I cannot wait to share it with you. I am so so excited for you to read this book, for you to listen to this book. I read the audiobook. If you haven't got it all ready, make sure you

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this year. Now, you know that I'm always seeking out new stories ideas people who have an incredible purpose in their life, have had immense success, but are sharing their story in a really beautiful, powerful way. And today's guest is going to blow your mind. I'm speaking about the one and only Dwayne Wade, of course, known from being an American professional basketball player, one of the best players of his era, who won three NBA Championships as a

member of the Miami Heat. He was a third time NBA All Star, an eight time member of the All NBA Team, and a three time member of the All Defensive Team. And he recently released a photographic memoir with more than a hundred photos from his life on and off The quote and this book, I was just saying to Dwayne Dayne, welcome to the show. Is a work of art. Like it's so it's so beautiful. I mean the pictures, the choices, the words in between. It is

a work of art. And I want to congratulate you, Dwane on this incredible achievement and welcome Tom purpose Jay. Thank you for the introduction. Man, that was listen you are you open for the Hall of Fame? Yeah, twenty twenty three possibly that was that was amazing. Yeah, that would be an honor. That would be an honor, my honor. So you you just let me know where I need to be. I will be there all as good. Well, you know, as we talked about, um, you know, this

is this is my art. This is my photographer about Metellus arts. This is just intensely who was a cowright on this this is his art as well. And so to be able to present a book that looks like art, it shows you how much care and how much work went into this, this project and this um you know, this so something that's so personal for me. So thank you for saying that. Yeah. Absolutely, absolutely, and I can't wait for everyone who's listening and watching. I highly recommend

you go and grab a copy. Whether you're a basketball fan or not, there is so much on and off the court in this book that you're going to benefit so much from it. To Dwayne, let's let's dive right in. I want to start by asking you, when you're compiling a book like this, when you're looking at pictures old

and new, what is it doing for you emotionally? Like, tell me about not the physical journey of compiling, but the emotional journey of putting a book together like this for me, like going through these photos, there's some very person who photos inside this book. You know this, you know, this is me trying to show Jay the human side of me. You know, as someone who's a public figure, sometimes the human side of you get lost. And so what I wanted to capture is that that that part

of me. And so I'm able to go into these photos and some of them, you know, it showcased my childhood, you know, whether it's showing up the complex that I grew up in on fifty nine and Prairie, or whether it's showing my kids or whatever it is. I'm able to go right back into that moment and I'm able to kind of relive some of those things. And you know, I love that. I love going back and remembering little Duane and the promises that he made and the dreams

that he had. I love going back and revisiting it. When when you were capturing all these memories since the beginning of your career, did you ever have any idea that it was going to go this well and be this great? And like, what was the process when? Because I always feel like, you know, now everyone's lives are documented because of social media and video and content has become so easy and cheap and free. But you know, when you started documenting, it's like no one knew where

this was gonna go. How where did you feel it was gonna go? I had no clue. And that's the That's the beauty of life as well, is the unknown. And so the only thing I knew was be a good person, work hard, treat others the way that you want to be treated and you want others to treat you know, your loved ones. Work hard, work hard. You know. I just knew these small, these small things in life that I carry with me and I try to put

that in everything I did. And you know, I think Will Smith said it, and I'm gonna mess it up, but he said, you work hard every day, and you get up every day and you just work hard and you mess around and you end up having a good life, you know, because just every day you choosing to work hard, and so I worked hard every day and I messed around and had a good life and a career. Yeah, a great A great career, man, a great career. And now you you mentioned in the book. I love this,

and I love even how you've structured the book. So for anyone who hasn't got the book yet, the book is structured in the same way a game is structured. So you've got pregame, first quarter, second quarter, halftime, third and fourth and post game, which I love. I love that thought of thought process and getting into your mindset and your life in that way. One of the most beautiful things you mentioned is that in the book that every tip off you always close your eyes, bow your

head and you talk to God. And when I you know, when I when I read that, I was thinking, Wow, that is so special to be doing that in a tip off, which is like, you know, there's stress, there's pressure, there's the fans, there's you know, everything's like quite heightened at that point, but you're able to close your eyes, bow your head and talk to God. I wanted to ask you, what do you say? Why has that been

an important routine for you? Yeah? Jay, it goes back to you know my childhood, I'm not I'm I look at myself as spiritual. I don't look at myself as as Christian or you know, any other terms. I look at myself as a spiritual person I felt. I've always had a person relationship with the version of who I feel my God is um since a very young age, and I've always communicated very well with him. And He's a hymn to me could be a hurt of someone else,

and so I've never lost sight of that. And and for me growing up as a young kid who who got a lot of things put in his path to try to stop him from getting to where I am now, and knowing throughout throughout that process, my faith was so strong. You know, you know my wed number three probably because of the Father of the Southern Holy Spirit. And at that moment before a game, I've done it since I've been since I started playing basketball. Is I always take

him and just be thankful. I'm thankful for the places that I'm allowed to go. I'm thankful for the places

that my God has taken me. I remember being little Dwayne crying, going to bed with no food in my stomach, you know, just crying trying, you know, asking God to allow me to be the one to help get my family out of you know, poverty, and to be in that situation, to be on an NBA court, and to look around before every game and see twenty thousand fans, see a little kid that's somewhere with your jersey, or just trying to get a glimpse in a moment like

to understand that you're one of the best players in this game. I'm thankful, and so before every tip off, I just wanted to express how thankful I was to my God. Yeah, that's beautiful, man. I love that as a centering and guiding principle for each and every one of us, that even in that moment, you're able to have that stillness internally to set that intention and you know, whatever it means to you. I appreciate that that it's you making sense of what that word, what that feeling

means to you. It's not about any other external definition, but about your own. I wondered, did you ever talk to your God after the game or during the game, the game, throughout the entire game, all the time, man, all the time. Do you ever remember a specific game or a specific moment where your conversation with God was was interesting, or that we could dive into that that moment. I mean, let's let's pick any Let's pick losing Game

two or the NBA Finals in twenty eleven. Up, I think fifteen points, you know what I mean, in the fourth quarter, let's take that. You're like, ah, what's up? You know what I mean? Like you have conversations all the time, but you know, ultimately, um, you know, for me, it's just always been about like, look, look, look where

I am. Like, you know, and I think sometimes you know, going through the process, Jay, like you lose yourself a little bit, you lose sight of like important you know, principles, important things. And I was and I'm one of those people who forget, you know, at moments. And then so when I would try to always bring myself back to the moment, even if we lost some finals, even if someone hit a game winner, even if I played terrible, you know, you're trying not to question, You're trying not

to ask why. It's a part of the journey. And so I tried as much as possible to stay off God, get off his case. I love them. I love that One of the things you talk a lot about in the book. That comes through with the images and pictures is you know the foundation you had through coaching and the people you add in your life. And you say something beautiful, you say, as a professional athlete, you have

to trust a lot of people with your body. And I thought that this was fascinating because you know, as an athlete, of course you have trained your coaches, and even in our lots, we trust people with parts of ourselves, whether it's our mind, our body, our life friendship. How did you know in the beginning or how did you develop an approach to finding out who you could trust with your body and your career versus those you couldn't trust. Was there a way that you sensed or started to

learn and know how to make those choices and decisions. Yeah, I think it's gut. You know, if you don't have someone in your life that can help you know, put you with certain people people and like a big mentor throughout your life, or a big or father figure who has certain relationships and all these things, then a lot of it is going to be on your your gut feeling.

And so for me, I've been one of the luckiest human beings in my eyesight for the sense of having people put in his life that have really made huge impacts, who have really been there for the good and not for the bad. And it just really helped me, you know, And I'm not that I have not always been the

most confident man in the world. And to have all these individuals who have been there to be able to give me the nudge to be able to push me back up, for me to have the common sense to allow them to do it is the reason that you and I right now are on the number one help podcast in the world because of it. Right So, I'm very appreciative of everybody alone his journey that really nudge me and lift me up. Yeah. No, I love that,

and I think that's so important. I think what I love is then the book, you talk so much about the coaches, the mentors, the people who nudged you along, the players that you work alongside. There's this brilliant picture of I believe it's with you and Lebron James, and you're just saying that it was from a workout where you both just went fall out on each other and just encourage each other to just you know, keep pushing

on and keep going on. Can you walk us through the hardest workout or the hardest pregame that you ever did, mentally or physically. Could you just walk us through what it's really like? Because I always feel as someone like I'm not an athlete, I don't really know how hard that is physically. Could you walk us through that? I guess the easiest way to say it is we all have. We all reach a point in whatever we're doing where we reach that boiling point where we feel we have

nothing else to give. And as an athlete, you reach that point constantly, And the hardest part is it is pushing yourself and allowing others to push you to give more than you know that you have to give. And it's so easy to quit on yourself. It's so easy to say I have nothing left. But when you go past that level and you go to it, you tap

into another place that you didn't think you had. You didn't know you had another fifteen reps, You thought you was maxed out a team, and you push yourself to there. Now you've shown yourself that you have another level, and that another level helps you in those moments, right that another level helps you in a fourth quarter when everyone's tired because you know you've went to another level, and

so just man the whole training aspect of it. Lebron and I being two great players and being two great friends,

pushed it each other. You know, that photo was right before Game one of the twenty thirteen NBA Finals, and we knew that it was gonna be on us to lead this team, and we knew we were about to be in a dog fight because we were playing at San Antonio Spurs, and he was going to test us physically and mentally and emotionally in all the fields, and so that was getting ourselves stealed and prepared for what the series was about to hand us. Yeah, that's amazing.

I love hearing that because you're so right. We always quit on ourselves. I mean, I remember the closest thing I can compare is just when I lived as a monk.

You know, you'd always think that you'd meditated enough for you'd pushed yourself, and our teachers would push us a little more, a little more, a little more, and then you get today where you meditated for like eight hours and you're like, oh wow, Like I didn't think I could do eight minutes if I was left to do it on my own, and you start to realize the value of association, the value of those minds around you that help you see more than yourself, and that really

leads to you. Know you said about Tom creen you said he believed that I could be something more than just a basketball player. And when I hear that, I'm like wow, Like when people around us see us becoming more than we see for ourselves. What were some of the lessons you believe that he taught you off the court. What were some of those And why was it so important for you to see yourself as more than a

basketball player. I don't know why it was. I just know it just always has been and it always has mattered for me. And I don't know the reason, Jay, But Tom Crean came to my house, and this is something that he probably did. You know, this was his first year been a head coach, but this is something he probably seen and had done before. But when he came to my house and he resented me with a cap and gown, at that moment, no one ever talked to me as as an inner city kid about graduating college.

I just started thinking about going to college. It was not like no like, it's not a lot of people my family who have graduated college. This is not a thing. This is not something that you just do. So when he presented that to me, at that moment, I started looking at him differently. It wasn't just about what I can do for him on a basketball floor. He was talking about my future. He was talking about me actually

building something bigger than just a basketball player. And that continued, you know, being in college and having a son at the age of nineteen years old, you know, he became a huge figure in my life as a father, as an example, and just a shoulder to cry on and lean on, you know, and so roll my those mentors obviously filed the figures, and these people are so important.

Um you know, alone this journey of life for so many little kids, and I know so many little kids like Dwyane Wade that's growing up in broken homes and um you know, inv in poverty, um where not a lot of resources, not a lot of opportunities. They need something, they need someone, And to be able to have those individuals in my life is the only reason once again that I'm able to sit up here and even have

a voice of a microphone to even talk about it. Yeah, when when you look at that time when and you've referenced in this interview and of course in the book, but like you know, growing up in poverty, growing up with very little opportunities or resources, not having those options, What was the first time you felt that there could be more, that you could do something with your life.

What was it? Who was it that right in that very moment, in that beginning, when you were in that pain and in that struggle, that made that feel possible. You know, Jay, I've always felt it, like I did. I didn't know what it was, but I've always I just never felt like I've I don't want to say that I fit in. I just always felt that I thought differently, and I looked at things differently. That's it.

You know, Like even a game of basketball, how as a young kid, how I was able to read the game and knew that the ball is either going inside or it's going along in perimeter. Okay, that's it. The game is easy, like right, like I just I just you know, it's just as it's a part of God's you know, uh and my parents you know, to getting together to be able to create create this right, and so I always had that looking around, like this is

not it, this will not be it for me. Like even now I'm I love life and my family and everything we're accomplishing, I still look around and I'm like, this is for now, this is not it. It's it's more. It's more living to do, it's more life. And I just didn't know how to get it done. Then I just know how to get it done now because I've

been through it all. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, and and and again what you just said is it's that perfect balance between being present now in what there is, but recognizing there's more and being open to that. Right. It's like when I hear you speak and when I'm looking at your book, there's deep presence, like when you go back to these memories in the book, like you're fully absorbed and immersed, like we're there with you. You do that beautifully.

But at the same time, you have this expansive vision that there's more. There's more to do, more to achieve, more to grow, more to learn. And I feel like that balance is really rare. You don't you know, people are either in the future or they're in the present, but being able to go between the two is a really powerful skill and knowing that you know you've been

able to spot those patterns and see that from the beginning. Yeah, what do you think was one of the best decisions you ever made in your personal life or professional life that made a huge impact or decision in your overall life. Well, I think, going back to the last point, in this point I wanted to make was the ability to be able to appreciate the past, enjoy and really focus in living the now and not be satisfied with that, and

be able to visualize and look towards the future. And having all three of those, my mind is always moving and I'm going from I'm going back here, and I'm coming here and then I'm going there right and to be I thank God and I thank everybody for the ability to have openness, like to be open. If you're open in this world, you will have experiences that you never could have imagined. But if you're close minded, you know you're going to live in a bout. And I

just never wanted to live in a box. And so my decision was to be open to do to my first in issue, reaction is out of fear, and it's out of something that I don't I've never experienced before, or I may not have a lot of knowledge on so I'm immediately going to be fearful and say no, I don't want to do it because it's uncomfortable. Who

wants to look stupid? Who wants to be wrong? But somewhere, somehow, alone his journey, someone gave me a smack me on the head and said, here, take this openness and go off and live life. I love that. I love that man, and I hope everyone who's listening and watching right now feels that they're getting that openness thrown at them through Dwayne as well of like, you know, just just being

more open to it. And one of the things though that another I was, you know what, I love this juxtaposition between images and woods like to me, all the art in my house as well, it's images and woods Like I feel like a lot of people just like to look at pictures and images, a lot of people obviously fascinated by words and lyrics. To me, when I see this book, I love it because it's it's it's both together and there's this beautiful statement that you made

that patience is always the hardest virtue to learn. We always hear patience is a virtue. But you go and say, patients to is the hardest virtue to learn. And I was like, what made you realize that? Like where did you? Where was patience hard to learn in your life? In every aspect like sitting in traffic, it's hard to have patience, you know. I mean, I live in La now, it's

hard to have patients of traffic, right. Like That's but I think we, especially now in twenty twenty one, we are we are a world that we want to get there. We want to, we want to, we want everything like this, when we get in our car, we want to get it our destination right away. We don't. We don't enjoy the journey. We're not enjoying the journey no more. And it's like even like with our phones, you know, we

could be in a car and it's our driving. Your head is down the entire time, and you've missed so much about the world, you know what I mean that we're just not looking up anymore. And so to me having patience and even someone when I get in the car, I'm like, it's an hour drive. Cool, let me enjoy this hour. Let me get my music right, let me get my podcasts right, let me put my top down and see the mountains or see the sun or whatever

it is. Right, we want to get to things right away, and we don't want to have patience and let things happen the way that they're supposed to happen. What was the hardest thing in your life to be patient about, like with your achievement in basketball, Like what was the thing you were most impatient about? If there was something you were really impatient about and that you had to realize you had to slow down and work towards. What

was that achievement in basketball? I wanted it right away, Like when I was in school, I wanted to be known. I wanted to have scholarship offers. I wanted I want to praise through man like I wanted that. I needed it, I felt, and that was something that now that it didn't happen for me that way, my journey was a little slower. And now I look at my journey and I'm like, man, that journey built character. And without that journey,

I don't have this. You know, I'm not able to look at it from this perspective, and its perspective makes me appreciate, you know, everything and so I have the same conversation Jay with my son who's going through his own journey and he wants it now. He wants to be a superstar now, he wants to you know, he wants everybody to like the way he played now. And it's like, YO, have patience, appreciate the journey, because this

is creating a story. You're creating your own legacy, right, you have a We're all born with a blank canvas and we're able to go out and find the paint and we're able to paint our own paint your own story. Don't let no one else paint on your canvas. It's it's yours. It's blank painted the way that you see fit. And so you know, that's just that's just how I approach it. I don't know if that makes sense. It

makes a lot of sense. I mean, I was about to say that is such beautiful advice for a young man. Congratulations to him, by the way on the recent news. But like, for you know, to hear that from your father, I think is so powerful. And I'm sure that if there's any mothers or fathers listening right now, or anyone listening right now, hearing that from you is massively empowering

right because I feel you're spot on. We're living in that culture driving social media technology n f T S. I mean anything, everyone just wants it now, crypto like whatever it is, the six pack, abs, the incredible body, whatever that means, Like, you know, we all want it right now. How is your relationship Dwayne? Do you think how did your relationship with praise and fame and validation

change over time? I'm always intrigued as to, you know, how did your relationship evolve with fans, with criticism, with good games, bad games? Like? How is your relationship with praise and validation evolved or changed over time? I feel that the more of my life has gotten to a place where it feels more complete in a sense that my mom's in my life, she's healthy, we have a great relationship. My dad's in my life, he's you know, he's healthy. We have a great relationship. I have a

great relationship with my wife. I'm I have great relationships with my kids, and I'm building better relationship with my with my kids as well. And so the closest, the closer I've got to the things that I've always wanted and needed, you know, I've gotten better about what people say about me or the perception of who I supposed to be or But when I was younger, I needed that, Like I like I said, I wanted praise through man,

like I needed attention. I wanted to be famous. I wanted to have my jersey's been a number one selling jersey. Like the insecure little boy in me needed that from others, you know what I mean. And then I got to the point as things started becoming better in love and family and the friends, and I started feeling more whole,

I stopped needing that, I stopped caring about it. And so I understand the journey of a young kid of like my son who's nineteen, who can read thirty three comments under his photo and feels like the world is coming down on him. I understand it. But at the same time, I'm thirty nine, and I'm able to look back and say, that's not going to matter, you know what I mean. What matters is you. What matters is what is what you put into what it is that's

your dreams is and what you want to do. Yeah, well, said man, really really beautifully sad. You know, I often feel the same way that when you know that the people, And it's what we started with when I was sharing

with you the intention at the beginning. It's that you realize that ultimately, the only opinions that matter are the people that deeply know you, Like most people don't know you deeply, and now you're giving us an opportunity to get to know you deeply through your through this beautiful book a memoir. But it's the people that know you truly and deeply at the heart. They're the ones that matter.

And you can't take someone who's uh, you know, behind the keyboard seriously because you don't really know who they are and they don't know who you are. But we do outsource our validation and our self assurance and our self esteem to everyone else. And I love hearing that. You know, I wonder how does your son react? But be honestly, how does he react to that? Does he go, how does he hear that? Does he go, oh Dad, it's all right for you because you're so successful, or

how does he respond to that? I'm intrigued. You know, he receives it. You know, the one thing I love about Zaire is he receives things and he decides how you know, he wants to um pursue, pursue things from from there. But he receives the things I say. But at the same time, he also understands that, you know what, Dad, You've never been zaire Away. You know what I mean, You've never really lived this lifestyle as I've lived. No one is really that we know in our family, no

one has lived a zire Away life. You know. I come, I know what it's like to be come from nothing with no expectations, but I don't know what it's like to come from something with expectations. Yeah, and so I get it, and so I don't I don't say these things to my son. I'm like, Hey, this is this is how it's supposed to be, and this is how it's gonna This is just me communicating with him and past trying to pass down to knowledge that I know.

But I also understand his journey and I'm able to you know, I'm able to listen, I'm able to be, you know, have empathy towards what he what he goes through. But at the same time, I know that ultimately that's not ultimately going to matter in a sense of you know, where you trying to get in your future, you know. And so I just don't want him to ever use things as excuses. And that's me and that's what I've

always fought. Again, So I could have used my mom as an excuse a hug going to prison, and when I was nine years old, I could have used not getting an act score to go to college as an excuse. But if I if I allow those things to be excuses, then I'm I'm I'm allowed myself to be defeated. Um, you know, and and and and it's like we already are behind the eight ball. Life is already hard enough. I cannot allow those things to happen if I want to be successful. And so I'm just trying to show

him that and understand it. It's going to take him in his own time to really understand it in that way. I love that you and you and your wife obviously are trying to have such healthy relationships with your kids. As you just said there when you know, when you go through this experience with your parents, but now you have good relationships with them, how did you reconstruct those relationships as time has gone on? You said, one of the happiest things is you have a good relationship with

your mom, she's healthy, father healthy. What was it that helped you rebuild those relationships in healthy ways based on the difficult childhood you'd had, well growth having kids, realizing your parents are not that crazy. Um, but outside of that, getting to know them. I really you don't when you're a kid, really don't know your parents. You know these rule setters, you know, you know people who take care of you and say no or yes, you know whatever,

you don't know your parents. And so what I've been trying to do and what I'm what I just got done doing, Yester this weekend we just came from Utah, is I'm getting to know my parents and I'm getting to know each one individually, and I'm also getting to know them around each other. And they've been knowing each other since my dad was like fifteen, sixteen years old, and so they know so much about each other. So

what I'm doing is I'm learning them. And as I learned them, I have a better appreciation of Jolinda and Duane and not just mom and dad. I think that's such beautiful advice for everyone. I think, as you just said, there's a there's a famous quote. I can't remember who it's fun. But it's a beautiful statement that says, Uh, the day you realize your parents were right, your kids are telling you that you're wrong, you know, it's it's that kind of feeling like and what you just said, like,

that's exactly it. Like, And I'm not the father yet, but I often think about that, and you're so right. That we never get to know our parents. That's such a deep and powerful statement because we expect that their job is to get to know us, and their job is to help us, and their job is to make our lives good. But most our parents have never been asked, how are you? How are you doing? Like, what do you care about? What's you know, what's been happening in

your life? So I really, I really appreciate that. I hope that after this podcast a lot of people go off and make those calls, ask those questions. The holidays are coming up, like you know, this is a great time to start reconstructing a lot of those you know, wounded relationships or painful places. You know you mentioned in the book, Dwayne, you said, I try to tell everyone how much they mean to me while they're still here, because I know one day they won't be And that

is such a brilliant way to live. Was there someone that you recently did that weird or texted or called? Well, had that moment with that? You really were trying to embody that I do it all the time. Day. Um. You know, I just got off my book tour and you know, my chief of staff someon capers, she's twenty seven years old, and she's she she did she she handled the book to us so gracefully. You know, this was her first time handle this and she just handled it.

She handled it so gracefully, and I had to acknowledge it. I had to let her know. Um, And you know, I really I really try to embody that. My wife and I really try to embody that. I think if you if you ask anyone that's in our inner circle, that's in our friend and family group, they would tell you we are we don't like to eat alan, we don't like to celebrate alan. M you know, we want to make sure that we all are experiencing life, because it's we're all experiencing something. Me and my wife are.

We're experiencing something that you know, most of our family and friends haven't, and we're going places that most people haven't, and it's on us to make sure we show them. It's on us to make sure we move the curtains and move the buildings and move the trees out the way, to make sure that our friends and family who have not been to places that we're being that they get

a chance to see it, you know. And so I'm all about creating moments, creating memories because at the end of the day, when it's all said and done, when someone that you lose that's so close to you, when they're gone, all you have is those memories that they left you, and those are the stories that you're going to tell. And so we all are about creating memories together, and that's that's how we roll. Did you did you

ever not live that way and regret that? Was there anyone that you wish you got to deal with that way? Or do you feel like you've been like that the whole time? Have you always just felt that you've tried to live that way? Or was that someone that kind of like snucked through the cracks. Yeah? I wasn't always open minded, you know. I didn't have a great relationship with my mom, my dad's mom, or my dad's father,

and it didn't. I didn't really affect me when I was younger because it was just it was what it was, and I really didn't care to have it. And then they both passed away within you know, I think a year and a half of each other, and I remember crying. I remember driving in my car when I got the news, and I remember just crying. And I never felt any emotions towards my grandparents because I didn't grow up with

a relationship with them. And at that moment, I felt I felt bad because I felt like, you know what, you could have been the bigger person you could have You never took time to understand, to sit down with them and ask questions and understand why the relationship was the way it was anyway you know better. And so I think after that I kind of woke up a little bit and I kind of I started trying to

put beef in certain things to the side. I view someone in my life that's gonna affect my emotions, on my mood, You're gonna make me cry, And so it became important to me around around the time. Yeah, no,

that's that's really special. Thank you for opening up and sharing that too, because I think off and you know, we always hear the side of like, yeah, remember people, but we always forget that there are people in our life that we didn't think like that then, we didn't have that mindset then, and you know, we missed out on that. So that's always a beautiful thing to hear one of the one of the things that you've done

a lot day, which is really admirable. I do believe it is because it shows a sense of risk, a sense of confidence, a sense of integrity. You know, we're all aware of the police brutality that's been happening in you know, black communities for for far too long, and for you speaking up about this topic, supporting conversations around it, trying to make change, using your platform for that purpose has been an important part of your work. And you say that, you know, what's the point of having a

platform if we're not using it for this. Can you walk me through what that experience has been like from going from a young black man growing up in an inner city like having that pain and pressure yourself to now being obviously a powerful, influential individual. You tell me about how it feels different and what's changed, if anything. You know, what I was just talking about this the other day, and I hope this analogy makes sense to all your listeners. Sometimes and I'll talk to my son

about this thing called impostor syndrome. Right, Sometimes I feel like I'm like I'm an imposter, Like I feel like I'm I feel like I'm that kid that snuck behind the tall kid you know too, and no one has called me and like i'm and it's like no one has seen, like no one is like saying, hey, kid,

get back here, you're going too far. And I feel like people are just still letting me go, right, And I'm like, it's a reason that these opportunities that I've been, that I've that I have, it's a reason for him. It's not just because I'm talented as a basketball player. I've seen a lot of talented basketball players not have the the microphone that even people will even listen. It

doesn't matter about that. So I think I understand that my purpose is just bigger and whatever it is, whatever is on my heart, whatever my experiences are, I'm gonna speak out on them. That's the world we live in. It's called freedom of speech. Where I'm going to speak

out on them. And then at the same time to be in a position where you have resources, you know, where you have connections, where you have finances, where you have when you have all these things, and then you can get a little bit more into it and not just be a voice. Now you can be an active participant and the change. And so that's what I've tried to do in my Waste Family Foundation Waste Royal Foundation before that, That's what Carmelo, Anthony, Chris Paul and I

are trying to do in our social change funds. We're trying to make sure that you know, we be active in the change that's that's happening in our communities. What have been some of the changes? Drink, Can you walk

us through that? And I know you're a very humble individuals, so you're not gonna go off and took about all the massive change you've made and you know, but I'd love to hear about some of the work that you're doing that you feel is really having an impact in the communities, in the lives of young young people in those communities, because I think it's so fascinating people to realize, like you said, it's not just about a voice, it's not just about social media it's about actual change in

these uh in these cities. Could you could you walk us through some of that stuff, yeah, you know, without going into oh wait, well we've done this and we've done this. I think the best, the best thing that I know that I can do. And Mellow and CP has the same mindset is I have about nine jobs, j and I'm a father of a lot of kids, and I'm a husband and all these things. I understand where my strengths are and my weaknesses. So I understand

where my limitations are. But I also understand that I have a passion and we have a passion for our community. And so it's people that's out there on the ground that's actually doing the real work. And what I've tried to do, what I've tried to do throughout my entire charitable efforts is support the people who are doing the work, the programs that are doing the work, the individuals that are on the ground going to jail for this, boots on the ground in the community. Those are the people

we want to support. Those are the people. That's why the Social Change That's one of the reasons the Social Change Fund was formed. That's one of the reasons why the ways where a foundation was formed. It wasn't for me to get any acknowledgement. It was for us to be able to raise enough money to be able to pull our resources together to get back to the people in the community that's doing the actual work. Yeah. No,

And I knew that. I just wanted to hear more because I genuinely just I genuinely admired that work so much and hearing you speak about it, you know, is really impactful for a lot of individuals because I think sometimes you know, it's like what you're saying, but being more than a basketball player, Like and today I'm not focusing on the basketball because I think I love seeing everything else that you've done by building this incredible empire

and this incredible impact and the heart that you do it with. And I want to understand how your experience has been so far being a business person and having ownership of the Utah Jazz as well, Like that's a whole other part of you as well. What's the biggest thing you've learned so far from that shift? Are there are there certain things that you're using from the sport in the business or are you learning completely new skills?

They say, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. And so you know, and I talk about this in my book a lot too, right, I feel that, you know, the sport that I played, basketball is so many lessons in there that are metaphors for life, that are life experiences. And so if if I can be successful in a sport that is very hard to be to crack, if I could be one of the one of the players to get drafted out of four hundred and fifty, why I could be one of the greatest players of all time,

then I know what it takes to be successful. I've already cracked that code. And so don't reinvent it. Just take the lessons that you've learned alone this journey and apply to them to you to this life. And That's what I'll try to do. And so for me, Jay, if my jumper was off, if I didn't know how to dribble, if I wanted to learn a move, I would go out. Or I want to get stronger, I'm gonna go out and hire a trainer. I'm gonna go out and hire somebody to help me right, fix that

or work on this. So I'm gonna do the same thing in this life. I'm gonna come out here and I'm gonna think, Okay, what is my trainer, therapist, trainer, vocal coach, trainer. All these different people are trainers to help me become the best version of me, same way I would have done on the basketball For now, That's how I've decided to approach Yeah, the pregame of business and you know, being doing Yeah, No, I love that. What a great mindset. And I love the analogy with

the trainer. That's such a such a brilliant way of thinking about it. I have to ask you this because you know you have a whole section here that in the book that's dedicated to Kobe Bryant. We will I was fortunate enough to interview him on the podcast. You always said how much of a find you were, how much you admired him, you had at a beautiful brotherhood

with him. Was what was the biggest thing that you feel you took away a len from Kobe consciously or unconsciously that you felt impacted you deeply till this day. You know what, I think the basketball side of it is watching someone who was has a God gifted ability, like God blessed Kobe Bryants with so much ability, but to be able to watch him work that ability, Yes,

like that right there. I've seen a lot of people who has been gifted with just talent and they don't do anything with it from the standpoint of working their talents. And so to watch him as an athlete really get the best out of all his God given ability, I mean, that's inspiring. But for me, watching Kobe Bryant retire was probably the most impactful part of the whole journey. That's

for me. It hurt as having he was a leader, Like I retired after him and I'm like, okay, I'm gonna follow Kobe, like I'm gonna see what he doing it. And we all like to have those people to chase, and so he was that person that we can look at and say, you can you can retire differently, you

can do this differently. You want to ask her? Well, I think one or two years after retirement, like the things that he was a part of, the books that he was writing, the universe he was taking us in, I mean, the body armor of it all, it was amazing. And so what I learned from him is that it is another way to do it. It is greatness at their basketball and you do not have to wait on it. Yeah, absolutely,

I think you know and I see that. You know, I remember when when I when I interviewed him, I remember he was so satisfied and peaceful and blessed in your words, in retirement, there wasn't you know, there wasn't this feeling. And I feel similar to talking to you today, like you're joyful in retirement, you're excited, you're passionate, Like you know, there's there's not a loss of that from the loss of a part of your biggest ident entity that you've played in your life. Where has that come

from for you? Where is that starting from for you? I see you today, like you know, we're laughing. There's passion, there's drive, there's ambition, there's great parenting. There's all these things that you're inspired by and growing for. And that shows me that even though you've let go of the longest part of your career identity, there's an identity beyond that man that was Thank you for that. I you know what, My wife makes fun of me all the time.

She says that I every morning I flee out of bed. I'm talking about covers, back go and and my wife was like, I don't want to stand it. Why are you so happy in the morning? And I'm like, because every every day I wake up, I get to create something, I get to imagine something, I get to inspire someone Like I'm I'm I'm a little black kid from inny

city of Chicago. And that just got me. I just got a little motion like like I'm a I'm a black kid from any city of Chicago that no one's seen, no one gave a chance to and to be able to have the opportunity every day when I wake up, and it's it's it's everything, Jesus Christ, that's right there. It's crazy, you know, it's it's important. It's beautiful that it comes through in the book. It comes through even

more when I'm speaking to you today. I've been watching all your other interviews and I love seeing someone who just is, you know, sharing that blessing with so much grace and so it's really powerful and it's someone getting a tissue on that side. I would give you one if we were in passing. Man. That hit me. I don't even know. I don't even I don't think I've ever teared up besides one of the championship or TV or you know, on any platform like this, like it was,

that's real. You know, I don't, I don't. I don't know how. You know, people don't get a chance to talk to a lot of little black kids in a city of Chicago. They don't get a voice. You don't get to hear their stories. You know, you get to hear a little bit of oh it's gain infested, drug infested, whatever the case may be. You don't get to really hear their stories. Man. And it's not lost on me that I was that kid. I can clearly remember little Duyne.

I can clearly remember. And so man, I'm just thankful. Bro. I'm just really thankful for all the blessings, but most importantly just to people I get to share it all with. To me, that's everything