3 Traits of Lasting Relationships & What You Can Learn From Failed Relationships

that's uncomfortable, awkward, and difficult. But I'm doing with my dear friend Lewis House, who I admire, I learned so much from who we have these fascinating conversations with every month for hours and hours and hours, and we find it really useful to go back and forth and just dissect a topic. So today's topic is something that I think's going to interest a lot of people because we're trying to ask questions that we all have in our heads but no one ever says out loud because it's

kind of scary. It's it's hard to talk about the controversial, especially if you're in a relationship. Today's one is a scary one to ask and these are two men in relationships. I've been married and with my wife for nearly ten years now, so that's a long time. You're in a relationship that you're very happy, maybe your girlfriend, Marty, and I'm so happy to see you both happy, but we're

also both reflecting on these things. So the question is, or the question we're starting with and then we'll kind of get lost in it, is is it possible to be exclusive with and love one person for your entire life? For your life? Right? That's so we put it out there. Yeah, yeah, and we want to encourage you to have this conversation, so you know, with people at work, with people at home, maybe not with your partner. Maybe maybe maybe that's a

good thing. Yeah, we want to encourage you to share this with one person that you think it would be interesting to have this conversation with. Maybe that is your partner or a friend or whatever, maybe your parents, maybe your parents, and listen to this, share this conversation with one person and set a time to have a discussion about what you heard, what you liked, maybe what you didn't like from this conversation, and share with us in the comments below and this channel. What was the most

interesting thing or what you'd add to this. I think, yeah, I love that. And by the way, the reason why this is called awkward therapy is both me and Lewis not therapists. We're not. We're trying to figure life out and we believe that having opened an honest conversations help us do that because you get to hear things from another perspective and you get to just think about something for a lot longer than like the second you make decisions. So anyway, I mean, let's dive in. I think, so,

what's the answer can you do that? I first think of when we grew up. Yeah, we watch a lot of movies that would portray this fantasy or this ideal let's call it, that you find the prince or the princess, you marry and it's happily ever after. And then in the real world things happen. People move town, you get an opportunity, who work somewhere, you have to do long distance,

and there's challenges. There was a breakup that someone had and they're still lingering in the new conversation and they're talking to their ex or things just happen in life, or you're just on Instagram and you get distracted by and you think that everyone else is better than the relationship you have. There's all these shiny opportunities, right, or these different people that could bring you more joy or

love than in the current relationship. And you and I both have friends that are in let's call it open relationships. I guess you call polyamory, right, where they have multiple partners or you have one main partner and you have multiple relationships. And we both know people that have been married for a long time, decades who are happily married. We both know people that have been married for decades and are unhappily married. And so I guess I mean,

I think what you said sparked something for me. Like I grew up as a hopeless romantic based on movies and music, so I always believe that there's the one, and I wanted this big romantic relationship. And I love like flowers and like poetry and like long walks and surprises and gifts because I brought into what Hollywood showed me. So for me, I think for a long period of my life, I believed that love was what I saw

in the movies. And I know that sounds ridiculous, but in my teens, I would say that was massively what I saw, and I would watch American movies, so people getting asked out to prom or like was like a big deal in American movies, or whether it's like finding that one person who's gonna solve everything right, and then you start recognizing that, oh, wait a minute, I had a few relationships that look like that on the outside,

but then they didn't feel that way. Or wait a minute, I've had a few a cups now, or wait a minute, like I thought this person was the one, but they weren't. And then you start recognizing, now that I've been in a long relationship, long term relationship, you start realizing love looks completely different. And so I think for me, the way I address this or the way I think about this is that first of all, you have to define what love means to you and what you want love

to be. For some people, they just want love to feel like attraction, infatuation, desire, And if that's how you define love, chances are you're going to want a new person every month or every year because desire or that type of chemical desire explosiveness fades eventually. The study showed that too and I'm not saying that you can't have desire for someone I know. I know one couple has been married for like thirty years and they would still say they have that I love. I think, yeah, there's

different levels of desire. There's like a conscious, healthy desire where you admire, respect, you're inspired fired by, and that creates that chemistry in that whether you want to call it sexual desire or whatever desire you create in your

intimacy and relationship. But the explosive like unhealthy desire I feel like only comes when you're kind of trauma bonding each other, like early on, right, you see something and you're like, I want that, But then there was never like a foundation of values, what you really want in your life together, agreements, you know, this conscious conversation around

being a couple. Yes, yes, And I would say one thing you said, which is really interesting to me because I think it's another societal narrative, is that the desire fades. And really what we both know that desire deepens, like it becomes about deepen absolutely, and so it's not that it goes away, it's just that it evolves. But if you are only into that initial desire and I remember for a long time. I mean, my greatest joy came from the pursuit and the chase and the conquest, pre

month life. Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, I got a lot yeah, pre month life. So I got a lot of joy out of wanting to see if I could get someone like that was the mindset, yeah, because that was the mindset that I was brought up in. Now, of course, when I look back at this, I don't believe in that as a value. I don't think. I don't think

women or anyone as something to get. But I think growing up as a teenager who wasn't exposed to any form of wisdom or insight, you grow up with that mentality of like, you're only trying to prove it to yourself, that's what you Or you're like buddies or something to be like, oh this person's into me, or luck what you know, which ultimately is you trying to prove to yourself that you are worthy so your friends respect you, and so now you're going out to obtain this thing.

So how long were you doing that up until? Like how old were you when you stopped the chase? Twenty one? Like twenty one? Better man than me? What I realized was that there was a lot of fun to the chase, right,

They're so fun. It's like this addictive drug is like, there is someone out there that I'm attracted to or has something that I want or I want to be in contact with them, whether that's a relationship or a hook up or whatever might being right, and then the attempt to go after I guess accomplishing this feat is like a drug. It is like this chemical drug that makes you kind of obsessive about it right until you get it, and then when you get it from a

place that is unconscious. It never was fulfilling or rewarding for me, right, and it was creating a foundation from something that wasn't based on values, vision, lifestyle things like that that never worked out for me. It was never healthy. It might have been fun for six months, or it might have been some good intentions here and there, but it never long term worked out because there wasn't a

foundation of a conscious relationship being developed. And I think that's what you did with Roddy, Like when you got out of them the Monk Life and you started the relationship with Roddy, You guys started from the beginning. What you've told me is about here are my values, Here's my mission. I'm on a mission to be impactful and served humanity. This is the type of marriage I want to create, This is the type of life I want to have. This is some of the stuff I remember

you're telling me. And I think going into a relationship with conscious conversations is probably one of the only ways to set yourself up to win for a lifetime together. Yeah, if you want that. And I know a lot of I know a lot of people who say to me, well, I enjoy the chase in the pursuit like I did. And you pretty much want a new person every month, right for men at least or men that I know,

where you kind of can get bored quickly. Someone entertains you for a few months, and then after that you need something new and you need to chase again, and the drug again, which is a great definition, and you keep moving and moving and moving, and then the individual has to decide. I think the choices do I want

a long term relationship ship or do I not? And there are gifts and pain points in both, Like there are really exciting, amazing things about getting someone new every few months, and there are really painful parts about it, And then there's loads of amazing things about being with someone for a long amount of time, or at least long for me is ten years, because that's the longest I've ever done with someone, But then there are loads

of challenging parts about that. And I think everyone just has to know what type of life they're signing up for. And that's why we're having this conversation because I don't think that you have to love one person for the rest of your life. I don't think someone shouldn't be forced to believe that's the only way life works, especially because some people dedicate their life to someone, then that person leaves them, whether naturally or unnaturally, someone leaves them

because there's infidelity or whatever there may be. And the point is that you can't force someone to say there is only one person. And I think often the institutions of the world, marriage and religion often kind of enforced people to believe that when you got married at twenty one, you got to be with this person with the rest of your life, or you're a failure correct or you've

made mistakes, or you something something's wrong with you. Yeah, And I think that's one of the things why people stay in a relationship for way too long because they don't want to be something made, a mistake or something wrong with them. So they try and try and try to make it work. And maybe they could have made it work, but they just weren't an alignment or something.

But a lot of people I think are in shame when they get a divorce, or they're in guilt, or they're in sadness for this loss because it didn't work out. They weren't who they thought they were. Something happened, right. It's a lot I've seen people who have been through divorce. It's not fun any Just a breakup is not fun, even if you got married or not. People go through breakups and struggle for a long time, it seems like.

So relationships can be messy for sure. Yeah, But what I have discovered in one year of yeah, well one and a half years of intense therapy starting a relationship. This has been something that I've never done, but for the last ten years I've wanted to start a relationship in therapy, and me and Martha started that when we first started kind of hanging out. We weren't really dating for the first few months. We just kind of want to hang it out and she was dating other people.

I was dating other people or just kind of out in the world. When we started getting more serious about it, I was like, listen, I've always wanted to do this, and I think it's a deal breaker if we don't do this, because I just want to make sure that we are setting ourselves up for success in terms of peace, joy, and for me, success in a relationship is two individuals

independently living their lives and sharing their lives together. Like she's gone for a couple of weeks working on a project and a movie right now, and I'm in Los Angeles doing my thing. I know with you and your wife, she might be gone or you might be traveling, and some times you're doing it together and sometimes to part and having the freedom and flexibility to be yourself and also be in a relationship. I think that's for me, what a success at this season of my life. Maybe

in ten years it'll look like something different. Yeah, And I think that's the point, right seeing life as seasons, because you have to ask the question like why do we think or why have you in this season decided to be exclusive to one person? And I think often we do that subconsciously. I don't think everyone intentionally thinks I feel I'm ready for a long term relationship. Now.

I don't think we do that. I think we assume that at one point you're meant to kind of get into one and settle down, rather than the conscious choice, or you're consciously avoiding that and you're going no, no, no, no no no. The last thing I want to do is get married or settled down or be in a long term relationship. And so for me, it's like everyone has to sit there and look in the mirror and go, why do I want either right now? What's serves me and what serves my vision and what serves what I'm

trying to do. That's what it is. And I think when you go back to what is my vision for my life and what do I really want? What will

support that vision at the highest level. If you're a single guy and your vision is to be really focused on your mission and your business and growth and your health, and if you're spreading your energy around ten different women you're dating at once over a year or something, or however many you want to date, there is a lot of excitement to that lifestyle, But then you have to unwind and essentially reject every person that you're not going

to be with. Ye. So there's like this unwinding, there's this hurt phase. It's this phase where you're you know, having challenging conversations and detaching from that intimacy of those connections. And that's a lot of energy. It's a lot of effort that's pulling you from your health or your other relationships or building something deeper and more meaningful when you have ten service level relationships as opposed to one deeper.

I have different friends who have tried the whole polyamory thing, who have had multiple partners at the same time, who've had one person and then other people in the side, And I've never met one man who has successfully, i mean had peace in their life, let's say, consistently over years doing that. There might be a year or two where it seems manageable, yeah, but then it's like there's

always a breakdown. Yeah. I've coached people and worked with people in that space, and I've just found that it's hard enough with one with one person's emotions, yes, then to deal with two. And this is what we do as humans, which I find really interesting, is that we make everything extreme. So we're so scared of codependency, so therefore we go to polyamory, yeah, because we're like, I

don't want to be dependent on one person. So instead of figuring out the trauma as to why I become codependent, and instead of purifying and figuring out what it is that makes me codependent, I just believe that an external shell of being in a polyamous relationship will solve that. That's often the mindset of people that I've met. I'm not saying that that's the only reason. I'm not saying that, Yeah, please,

hate is in the comments and control. It's like, I'm not saying this is the only reason, And I'm just saying that the people I've spoken to, they've said to me that they were scared of being codependent. So they believed if they had more partners than they wouldn't be codependent. Yeah, or they'd get the excitement that they were missing in their relationship. They wanted the relationship that would give them

support and peace and structure. But if they were missing the excitement, Okay, let me go find the excitement somewhere else. And for me, that made a lot of sense. In my twenties, thinking that way because I was just like, oh, I don't know if you could do this with one person.

For a long time, that was probably one of my biggest fears, that I would be in love with someone or love someone consciously, but that sexual desire, that exciting feeling that happens in the first whatever three to six nine months, I wouldn't have with a person once I

was married with them, when I'd feel trapped. Yeah, I had to really heal a lot of things from childhood that built that script or narrative to realize that it's possible with conscious effort to create connection, chemistry, desire with one person if they're the right person in alignment also

doing the conscious work. And that's where I said, like, I need to start therapy so that we have agreements, so I can feel peaceful, to be myself my full expression and dive into the relationship with curiosity and fun and excitement and desire in the relationship. And so far it's been extraordinary in the process of therapy before problems. Yeah, absolutely.

I don't know if it's something that you guys did, or if you did something like that where you had conscious conversations about kids or what happens with money and all these different things. Before marriage was that something And I don't think they have a stop, but there's important

to have before and before I get there. I think there was one thing about the that I wanted to mention about polyamory is that it's it's not that basically there's no external shell that's going to solve your internal trauma and pain. So whether you're with one person or whether you're with three or two or four people, neither

of those are the cure. But you can't say to someone like being with one person and being married to them is the cure for your pain and trauma, or that if you have two people then you won't be codependent, Like that doesn't solve it. And so you've got to figure out what is it again that I really want?

And so for me and rather like I, all I can ever do is be honest about where I'm at and what I want at that time, in this moment, in this moment, because if you made a promise your wedding day about ten years and that's why I don't think it's a promise. I think it's an ongoing conversation that is always changing and evolving it's not a commitment or a promise. It's not saying I am definitely up for this. It's saying I am open to this, I'm considering this, or I'm closed to this, this is not

what I want. So if someone knows they don't want to have children, but they never talk about that with someone who they know wants to have children because you're scared of raising that, that's unhealthy because that is going to come up one day. Or if your desire long term is to live in another city or country, but you've not made someone aware that that's what you're considering. And so I don't think this is about this is

what I want and this is my promise. It's more just saying this is kind of how I imagine my life, right, like, this is kind of how I think about it. Things change, people change, and all these different things. I think Patrick bet David said this. I can't remember where he said this, but I believe he said like every year around New Year's or Christmas. I think this was him where he says he and his wife get together and say, did we want to do this for one more year? Yeah?

And what worked this year? What didn't work? How can we make it better, and do we want to do this for one more year as opposed to for the rest of our lives? Like thinking all the way fifty years away, ye, can seem kind of daunting for some people. And I think that's an interesting approach, and I think it could be like, you know, every day, what are

we greatful for? Was there something that was off today that we can address so that it always is improving and growing in and a conversation of growth every day, once a week, once a month, every year, like be having the conversation is the key. I think making a lifelong decision is a recipe for failure. What is it anything? Forget loving another person? What could you say that you're going to do every day for the rest of your life,

apart from shower and brush your teeth and breathe and breathe? Like, what is there that you could truly say, hand on your heart that you know you're able to maintain. I don't think there's anything so to create that promise really starts. And I do something similar more regularly with RADI where I always check in with rather and be like, is this the relationship you want? Is this going in the direction you want. It's a great question is it going in the way I want? Because if it isn't, are

we willing to change? And if we're not willing to change, then where does this go? And I think doing that regularly every couple of weeks, every month, every three months, every quarter turn it into a thoughtful process. To me, that's really healthy because it gives you the incremental, intricate moments to say, Okay, well I don't like how this

is going. And there were days in our relationships, certain years where I'd said to rather like, I'm like, this is not the relationship I want, really, and this is what I'm willing to do for it to change? Are you willing to do so? To hear that, I think this is after you're married. This is after we're married. I think that we establish those awkward conversations and uncomfortable conversations early and so it's continued to be easy to

have them. But what I found is just the realness of a human Often her response will be well, I need to think about that, like, I don't know, I'm unaware, I'm not sure, and that requires patience, and that requires waiting and so many other uncomfortable feelings but you have. My point is if you don't do that, you're basically

living a life for years and years and years. And I always find this fascinating that when someone gets divorced or when someone breaks up, everyone's surprised apart from those two people, they're like two years in the making because they know what's going on, right, And people may be shocked and they may not be happy with it, but really, deep down, you know, you've just been going along with

the default. And so I find that having that conversation more regularly allows you to pivot or for some people part, yes, but I don't think if you don't have that conversation, then the pivot or the part is less likely. My therapist, but also Martha and I are doing individual and then together at certain times right, which has been extremely helpful to have separation as well, where I can just continue to heal my healing journey from my own stuff, she can do her own work, and then we can do

relationship work together. It's really beautiful experiences. What our therapist and coach says is relationships should be about high engagement, low attachment. You know, high engagement, Atta, and she's like, that's the hardest thing to do. That's like the ultimate challenge is high engagement, low attachment, And a lot of times in my past, speaking for myself, it was high engagement, high attachment or low engagement, high attachment to the result to it working out, and kind of giving in and

abandoning myself just to try to make it work. And when I learned how to heal from a lot of different stuff from previous relationships and just learn how to heal my own childhood wounds, it was easier for me to make decisions and be less attached to the result and just say this is my vision, this is the

type of relationship. And so with Martha and me, early on, I was like, here's my vision, here are my values, here's the lifestyle one I have for at least the foreseeable next few years and the next five to ten years. What I my intention is. By coming from that space, I was completely clear, and I was like, there's a lot of things you may not like what I'm about to say, but I'm gonna tell you one hundred percent

of the the truth. I'm not going to give in on my truth and I'm not going to sacrifice if you want me to change a bunch of things because it doesn't make you happy, then we're just not an alignment. Yeah, thankfully she loved all the things about my values, vision of lifestyle moving forward. It's also kind of revealing all

the things I'm not proud of from the past. It's like, oh, this is how I was and this relationship and this relationship, and I had to learn a lot and revealed that as well to not act like I'm the perfect one. It allowed for more of a conscious foundation to be started in our year of experience. Where you've had ten years, right, ten years you've been together. Next year we'll I've had

I don't know ten failed relationships in my lifetime. You've had ten years of a beautiful relationship, and you've had different things that you said in the first few years where you said, this isn't the type of relationship where I wanted to be like it needs to. That's not what I was into, and it's going in a different direction than when I wanted. What would you say for me?

The biggest thing that I've learned was going into a new relationship healing the wounds of the past, or being on the healing journey and having conscious conversations early and starting in therapy when there were no problems has been extremely helpful for me in one year. Yeah, what would you say a ten year has been extremely helpful for you that you also wish you did in the first year, or maybe you did do it and you're still doing it. Yeah.

I think it's the continuation. It's like when you plant a seed, you water it, and you may as sunlight and you make sure the soil is good. When it becomes a tree, you still do all of those things. You don't just stop right like, you don't stop like just caring for it. The care might evolve and change, like you don't need to water a tree in the same way because it's it's roots there. But you can't

be completely negligent. I think the challenge we've created in society is that we believe that a long relationship is a successful one. And really my definition of a relationship is are we growing together? Are we thriving together? And are we learning from each other? Yes? Are we growing together? Are we thriving together? And are we learning from each other? If I'm not doing that with you anymore, then if we're not, and then the question is are you willing

to change something in order to do that. And if you're not, and I think you have to be. I think the challenges, and I've heard you talk about this, I think the challenges. No matter how long a relationship gets, you have to be open to the fact that you could get to a point with someone where there's no more growth, no more learning, and no more thriving. And

that's that low attachment. Yes, he's recognizing that, just as in a business relationship, you wouldn't stay in business with someone if you weren't growing together, you weren't thriving together, and you weren't learning together, and you want to keep

your business open. If you were in the negative year after year, you weren't having fun, you didn't see opportunities for growth, you're in an industry that was eliminating year after year, you'd be like, Okay, maybe this had its season, correct and it's time to find a new business to work. And I'm just not saying you need to say, well, maybe this person's had its season or this and this. But going back to the original conversation, can you be

with one person for the rest of your life? Can you love one person for the rest of your life

and it'd be a healthy, overall, healthy, enriching relationship. And again, I think about a successful relationship where each individual is putting one hundred percent into their own personal development and growth and mission and putting one hundred percent into making the relationship healthy, conscious, joyful, and that takes a lot of individual work, one hundred percent on each individual to want to grow and develop, and if not, then it's

going to be there's gonna be challenges. And I think there's something that Esther Perel said probably on both of our shows, which is there's a love story and there's a life story. And there's a lot of people you can have a love story with right where you could fall in love with or date and have these romantic nights and these adventures, but they may not be a part of your life story. So they may not have your values, your vision, the lifestyle you want to have

in your life. If a lot of those things don't line up, then maybe you're they're just a seasonal love story, not a longer season life story. And there's probably lesser

people that could be a life story. Yes, And so I don't think that there's one person that you could be with for the rest of life, because you know, again, something could happen in a partnership where if someone leaves this world, then you're just going to say, for the rest of my life, I'm not going to be in another relationships, there might be a situation or if the relationship has just had its season and the person's not willing to keep working and investing in it, it's like

that's tough, and I just think that's okay, And you're in therapy and there's like, no, I just don't care about the relationship anymore. So the other person's supposed to stay attached and give one hundred percent when the other person's giving zero percent for a year and year and year. I don't think that's the type of life that we were designed to live. Yes, just to show up because we made this a commitment to an attachment, I guess. But that's controversial to say, because when you make a

commitment to marriage, we should try. The intention should be to stay married. That should be the intention. But if one person is unwilling to and they keep breaking their commitments and they're not then to get back on track, or they do things over and over that are hurtful and they don't apologize and take responsibility. They don't take accountability. I don't think a period of time someone needs to abandon themselves to be taken advantage of and abused and

used and someone breaking their promise in their commitments. Of course not. And that's one of the biggest issues with setting a commitment at an early stage in life, when we're immature eighteen twenty one, you don't even know yourself and you make these massive promises, and I just again, I go back to that, like, where else in your life do you make a decision for life for fifty

sixty seventy years. And so if you do want that with someone, make sure that you are checking in regularly, that you're renewing that like you're reconnecting with each other regularly. Because you don't get to have an amazing relationship with someone because of a promise or a commitment. You get to do it because you renewed that promise and commitment on a daily, weekly, monthly basis, not because you want to extend the years you've been together, but because you

want to extend the growth. And so for me, I think I agree with you that no one should feel forced and really, what marriages or what exclusivity is or what commitment is is we're going to try to grow together continuously. And I would rather choose to grow with you than to grow in many different ways. And it's a conscious choice. And I think, listen, neither of us

have kids yet. Yeah, and so I can already see all the comments of people saying, well, wait till you have kids, and you don't know what it's like when you have kids. You have to sacrifice and give up so much. And I think that's a great excuse for people, and I think it's a valid excuse, but I think

it's an excuse that holds people back as well. And I know a lot of married people with kids who are thriving, who are having fun every day or consistently, who are joining their lives, who live independently in the marriage as well, and have their wrong time and flexibility, trust all those things, and year after year they thrive

with kids. So again, there are going to be more and more challenges, and that's why it's important for each individual to do the work consistently independent of the relationship, to just become better humans, more emotionally evolved, emotionally intelligent. Work on healing whatever is triggering, you work on that healing journey so that you're not as reactive with your partner or life. Yeah, you're not bringing baggage to the relationship.

You're more having any conscious conversation in the relationship, Like you said, when we make those decisions at twenty one or whatever, or just early even at forty. I was telling Martha this the other day. I was like, I don't know if I would have gotten married. There's no way I'd be in a relationship if I got married

at twenty seven, twenty nine. There's just no way. Because I've had to go through so much inner challenges to overcome in the last decade alone that just now at thirty nine, do I feel like I finally figured out how to have peace inside? Yeah? Consisting. Yeah, I would have messed up any relationship without knowing the tools on how to just navigate. And it doesn't mean I'm going to be perfect in this relationship for the rest of my life or whatever. But I'm probably gonna make mistakes.

But I feel like I have a better awareness of self yet five twenty seven, thirty It's like, that's hard. I don't know how you did it. Ten years ago. Yeah, I mean nearly ten years. Who was Yeah it was next year, it will be ten years. But you have four years of month training where you were just there's I mean, there's a bit of everything, right, Like, there's the there was some maturity, but now when I look back, I go, there was also parts of it that were luck.

And when I say luck, I mean universal divine intervention, and like, I was fortunate that it was. Rather there were lots of parts of it where it was like, oh, like, actually I wasn't as mature as I thought, but it somehow happened that we were compatible to me. And you know, there's she was healthy in a certain ways, and that's there's a lot of fortune in that too. Like I don't think it's it's not fair for me to say that it was all didactic and perfectly like masterminded because

I was so advanced. That's not true. I think there was some maturity, but there was also a lot of immaturity, but that got balanced out by some of her gifts. And I think the point is that you just can't ever be scared to look in the mirror. You can't be scared to ask those questions. You can't ever stop doing that, because that's where it all goes wrong. I think that I have grown more significantly being committed to

one woman than I would have if I wasn't. So that's my If you would have been single for the last ten years, correct and say single or having different surface level relationships, not being committed to one person for ten years, where would you be in your life right now if you could just hypothetically Yeah, And I don't think it's an external success or metric of some sort

of financial law, you know, physical situation. It's more that I believe that being in a committed relationship has taught me skills and qualities that I wouldn't have if I wasn't. So I've one of my favorite ones is the ability to self validate as opposed the other person giving you validation. Correct.

So I believe that if I was single for the past ten years, I would have used other people to validate myself, because I would have been able to go to different people for different forms of validation, someone telling me Jay, you're this, you're that, whatever it is. When you're committed to one person, chances are they don't validate you sometimes or at least in my case, and that trained me in the ability to go inward and validate

myself for what I care about myself. Yeah, I'm assuming Roddy's not intentionally not validating you, but you're just in life and conversation and you know you wanted something, but maybe she wasn't being aware of it or whatever. Right. Yeah. The point is you don't get to just solve it

by going and finding it somewhere else. And so I think that's what I mean that a lot of the time, when you don't get what you want from one person, you can just go find a fix somewhere else, but that stops you from growing in doing it for yourself. So that's one of the big ones. Another one that I would say that I only got through being in a committed relationship was the recognition that effort and contribution

to a relationship was not always visible. So what I mean by that is often in a relationship, we think of the breadwinner, the person who pays the bills, as being the way someone contributes, or if someone cleans and cooks, that's the way someone contributes. When you get into a relationship for a long time, you start to realize there are emotional contributions to a relationship. There are spiritual contributions to a relationship which you don't get to see when

your relationship is purely physical. Right, And so now when I look at relationships, I'm like, wow, like RADI is contributing to this relationship. Of course financially in that but also in this spiritual and emotional way. Yes, and in my limited understanding, if I was just moving around, I wouldn't know if that was even possible. So I think, I mean, those are just a couple. There's so many.

But I believe that I have grown more and learned more about myself then I would have if I wasn't, because I think I would have found a quick fix for most of my problems, oh everything, if there was, like you know, if I was just jumping from relationship to relationship or just dating and not actually being committed to anyone. When there was a moment of anything getting hard,

just be like, I don't want to deal this. I'm going to go to the next person and have fun and just make it light and make it interesting and go after the chase and get that high again. When I started the relationship with Martha, I made a conscious decision. Realizing that I was the problem for every previous relationship, that I was the common denominator for things not working out,

I said, let me try something different. Let me not dive into what I've always done, which is the sexual chemistry first, because that clouded my mind from seeing the person fully or seeing more of the person, I should say. And that decision to remove that for the first you know, months of us kind of seeing each other and getting to know each other was so powerful for me because I was like, do I want to be I remember asking some friends in the past, I go, if you

guys didn't have sex, would you still be together? And a lot of them are like, no, okay, So remove sex from the relationship or remove sexual chemistry from the relationship. Would you want to spend quality time with this person consistently? Are you adding value to their life? Are they adding value to your life? Another person said, you know, could

you spend ten thousand meals with this person? Because that's what it's going to be like if you're getting married and you're with them for a long time, ten thousand meals. It's interesting enough. And when we jump into from my personal experience, when you jump into sex or chemistry. First, the foundation is usually a little shakier. And also if you're doing that with multiple people, it's hard to build a strong foundation with one and you're never really getting

that piece. It's kind of there's always something shaky. Yeah right, you know, yeah, well, I mean that's I mean, the studies showed that too, that when you engage in a physical relationship with someone, the chemicals that are released after sex make you feel closer to them when you're not actually closer, So you haven't really done the work for deep value based intimacy, but you're feeling the high chemically, and you could feel that with people again and again

and again, and that's why we get more attached to people that we have sex within that way. And so for me, obviously through the Monk training, like that was a big part of it. I mean, celibacy was a huge part of Monk training, and it was all for mental clarity so you can make better decisions. Right, It's

not about saying that you're never having sex. It's about the idea that can I make better decisions without being clouded from being clouded by a chemical release that is making me believe something And I think That's what people don't That's what people underestimate, is that do you want to make a decision based on reality or do you want to make a decision based on chemicals that are being exposed to you in a particular moment, which aren't reality.

And I think everyone would hold their hand up anyone who's in the comment section right now, like would say, I have been in a relationship where we had a terrible relationship, but the sex was great. I think everyone would agree that they've been in a relationship and whenever there was an argument, we leaned on sex and got

back to yeah, to a foundation, right, Yeah, exactly. And they know that that was toxic and unhealthy because they dealt with pain, they dealt with abuse, they dealt with manipulation, they dealt with trauma because the sex was good, right. And that's why I think if you eliminate that, at least in the beginning of a new relationship to learn to learn that you're going to learn and make better decisions. Mental clarity, Like you said, is this since behavior matching

their words? Do they have the same values that I have? Are we in alignment on a lot of these things that we want or do they do certain things that I'll just never want to be around, you know. For me, it was very important, Like I've never been drunk in my life. It's not something I do, but I can be around it. It's just like it's I don't want to be around it all the time. Yeah, you know what I mean. Like, if you want to have wine

once a month, like I'm cool with that. If you're drinking every night, three glasses of wine, it's just a deal break. It's just not for me. And there might be something that you know, in the past, if if a person wanted to be with me, but I was like, well, iat sugar all day, that'd be a dealbreaker for them

or something or whatever it is. Yeah, And it's figuring out, like what are the things in alignment that you both want to see if you can be in a great relationship, to see if you can be in a thriving relationship, because human beings are just messed up. Yeah, And if you're trying to be like obviously, if you're just someone who's like I just want to sleep around, you know,

mess around, have fun, whatever, sure that's fine. But if you're in the position in your life right now where you're like, I want to be in a long term relationship. Then it's a healthy thing to consider this because you want to have your best decision making capability. And I also think a lot of people are getting in a relationships when they feel lonely. Yeah, that is a scary thing to do, to be seeking out a relationship because

you feel alone. One of the greatest gifts I gave myself was learning how to go take myself out on a date, go to dinner, go to lunch, go to a movie alone, and learn to enjoy my own company. It was so hard to do because I didn't enjoy my company for so long. I had too many negative conversations with myself. And I had to learn how to love myself in a conscious way, in a healthy way, so that I could be happy alone first yes, and

then not abandoned myself in a relationship. And it's like, when the point when I was like, I don't want to be in a relationship, that's when Martha showed up. I was like, you know, I'm good. I'm like so happy alone. I love my life, I've got my business, I've got my friends. I am good. That's when she came in. I was like, damn it, I don't want to be around you right now. But it's but I can do it because I can have low attachment from

the beginning and I don't need this to make me happy. Yes, I think a lot of people get in relationships because they need that to make them feel complete happy, And I think that's also a foundation of struggle when we come from that space. Yeah, the reason why what you said is so important is that that doesn't stop when you move in with someone. So I think we feel that, and I think this is a pressure that's created in relationships, especially in the early days, where people expect to spend

all their time together. And if you're spending all your time together, then where is the time to grow independently so that you can improve each other's lives. And so if every night you go home and you put a show on together and you watch it and that's your way of spending time together, you're not investing in or

growing the relationship. And then three months down the line, you're wondering, why don't we feel any chemistry or any spark or any compatibility because you both haven't grown independently, so you haven't been able to grow together, and so that's not something that stops. That going on a date on your own or treating yourself, that never stops, and

it shouldn't stop. And I think one of the biggest challenges is is that people say, oh, if you don't want to spend time with me, if we're together, then that means there's something wrong. And so there's this insecurity that if you don't want to spend every moment with me, then you don't think I'm good enough. Or if you don't text me every single moment when we're not a part,

that means that you don't love me. Flashbacks now, Yeah, it's like and when you live in there, it's like, well, wait a minute, you've missed the point that if they're always with you, then they can't bring anything to you. Yeah. I've heard a couple different people talk about this concept. I think Esther Perell was one of them. And then Rob Bell talks about the space in between the time you're together. It's where you love deepens. It's like you can deepen it when you have space apart from each

other and you can miss each other. You can think about the conversation you had, you can think about the activities, the games you're playing, the intimacy, those conversations, those moments. It's the space in between that creates more harmony. I think Yo Yo Maa talks about like harmony is in between the notes. Right, It's like there's the same thing with connection and love. You know, if I spent every moment with you, I might be like I need some

more time apart. But it's because I only see you once every couple of weeks or once a month, I get so excited about that time together. Right, Not that I wouldn't want to see you every day, No, you know what I mean. It's like having time to be an independent human being, doing your activity, is doing the things you love well I think support you and staying

together longer. Yeah, And the couples that you know that I know that have been together for twenty thirty forty years at least a lot of them might feel like have that one day a week with their friends, have that time where they go on a trip alone or with other people in their life. They learn other activities, They go to workshops together but also alone on things that they can add value to the relationship and to themselves.

Feel independent, but also be committed, and I think that is a huge thing to set yourself up to be a healthy, conscious, thriving relationship long term. Yeah, if you choose to be with one person, If you choose to be with one person, there's a couple of things you have to think about. The first is what do you actually enjoy to do together? So Radye and I discovered that going out to dinner was okay, watching a movie together was okay. But what we've really loved was experiences.

What we really loved was doing activities together. What we really loved was going to workshops together. Is whether it was a cooking class or whether it's pottery, or whether it was trekking with gorillas that we just did right now, or whether it was going on a hike together, like

it was doing something active together. And you know, even in our relationship as friends, like we were talking about this, like when we set our fun, fitness and friendship, and we've decided that we want to make sure that we are going out for dinner, but we also want to play some sports. We've been playing Pickable together or our version of pickaball that we're meant it. We're going on hikes, we're doing different things activities together. Yeah, and like that's

what we've realized we like to do. And I think that's a really important thing that if you want to be with someone long term, you have to figure out what you want to do together. And then going even a step further, if you're really going to be with someone long term, your relationship has to have a purpose beyond each other. Yea. The goal of your relationship can't be how do we stay together? Like, the goal of the relationship is how do we serve together? How do

we give together? How do we help our community together? Like couples who have that ability to expand their radius of care and compassion, that's what ultimately goes to that stage. Couples as stay together, serve together. I think that's a great thing, you know. I think in the fitness community they're like families that work out together, stay together type of day. But I think couples that stay together are

the ones that are serving together. And I know your talking about this, and I know this is going to be in your next book as well. This kind of concept of the different levels of relationship of Okay, you're getting to know dating stage, then you're in the commitment stage. Then you're in marriage stage, and then it's like, what is the next stage. It's being in service. It's figuring out ways to serve your family, your friends, your community, and the ways that makes sense for you. That's what's

going to keep people together long term. And I think when we stop serving the relationship and we stop serving others around the relationship, it's probably going to have more challenges. Yeah, you know, maybe you can make it last and maybe you have some good times, but I feel like you're going to have more challenges to overcome, which is going to make you say one person's not for me, this relationship is not worth I need a different relationship. And

maybe that's true. Maybe that relationship wasn't supposed to last, but I think it's And I'm so excited to for your next book because I've been getting the behind the scenes from you on it. But I feel like you're going to give people this foundation of how to set yourself up at the different stages of a committed relationship. And I don't think there's anything wrong with being single

and dating lots of people. I know a guy right now, he's single and he's going on dates every week with different people, taking people out to dinner and having interesting conversations, and what Matthew Holsey says our friend is kind of like eliminating people that aren't the one for them right now. It's like, I got to go meet a bunch of people, have experiences to see who I know don't want to be with as well. And I think there's a season

for that. And I think when we get into relationship, we just need to be conscious of why am I getting this relationship? You know? Am I dependent on this to make me happy? If so, I just think that's going to be a recipe for failure. But being conscious about entering a relationship and conscious about growing a relationship. There's so much you learn when you're single, and there's so much you learn when you're in a relationship. Yeah, And that's actually the question do I want how do

I want to learn right now? Like how do I want to learn right now? Do I want to learn by meeting lots of people and learning in that way and dealing with what comes with that, or do I

want to learn in this way? And I think everything in life is simply a learning experience, and at this season of my life, yeah, that one of the biggest values for me is peace, inner peace, right, and you kind of peace if you and I. For years, I would interview on camera and off camera older men who are successful in business or in their careers, or who had kind of reached the top of their industry, and I would ask them questions like about being single or

about having, you know, being married, about being with one person or do they have open relationships, just curious. And there was not one man who was like fifty sixties, seventy years old who was peaceful and fulfilled with multiple women at the same time or kind of trying to manage that, you know, that energy. The ones that had peace, which again is a value of mind, is having peace because I feel like peace helps us create mental clarity, which I think is important for you as well, which

helps us have more energy towards our mission. Yeah, and I haven't met one sixties seven year old man who was like I had five girlfriends the whole time and I was peaceful. And so I just again, again, what's your value? What do you want? If you want adventure and fun and you can't have all that and peace, there's going to be some letting go. So I really like and this has been my biggest takeaway from today's

that you brought it back to values. If your value is experimentation and freedom, freedom, freedom from commitment, then that's a beautiful life. And I'm not and again I'm not saying you should do either rule you know, it's it's all based on your value. And you just said your value is piece. My value is purpose. I want to be committed to my purpose. And I had a really open and honest conversation with a friend recently. He asked me a question. He said, Jay, like, you know, how

do you deal with temptation and desire? You know everything else? And we had a really honest, vulnerable conversation man to man, and I said to him that for me, one of my biggest values in life is history and loyalty. I like long term friendships because then you can look back and look at how far you've come, and you can't do that from short term. I like loyalty. I love the idea of like you've been loyal to a friend, a person, a partner, and you can look back at

what you've been through school. And so when I look at my life, I love that me and you have memories from being in New York together, being in LA together, doing a project together, and in my romantic relationship, it's the same thing. It's like, I've been with this woman when I had nothing, when I was broke. I was like, I hear and I value that, right. And someone may say, Jay, that's soft, Like I don't value that at all, and

that's cool, Like I respect that. You may say you don't value history, you value a one night stand, and that's great, Like there's nothing wrong with that. But I think you've got to know what you value. And I love that you value peace, and I love that you

equate a committed relationship to peace. And yeah, and some people might say, well, every relationship about been stressful, So I'm going to value being single and having surface conversations or surface interactions of intimacy that aren't scary to go deeper, right, whether it could be heartbreak or pain or frustration or whatever it is. And that's your season, you know, that's your way you value, but I definitely value intimacy connection.

There's nothing worse than accomplishing like your greatest goals and then being in a hotel room by yourself and being like, I'm gonna you know whom I call to celebrate this with's no one like with you in the journey and you with them exactly. It's really cool to be there for each other and it's something i'd value with you know, Martha being inspired by what she's creating, and she's inspired what I'm creating. The mutual respect and inspiration. And I

know you and Roddy the same way. So powerful conversation Onward Therapy Part two. If you guys enjoyed this, leave it yes and the comments below makes you subscribe to Jay Shetty's podcast and Apple Spotify on YouTube, subscribe on YouTube, all of our social media and let us know which part of this you enjoyed the most and leave a comment of what you'd like us to talk about on the next episode of this Awkward Therapy Conversation. Also, the call to action is to find someone to have the

same conversation with. Ask them this question, can you be with one person for the rest of your life? Send them this audio or this video and have them watch or listen to this and then have the discussion with them shortly after and let us know your thoughts. We'd love to hear your thoughts on this. Thank you so much for watching everyone. I want to make sure that

you think about what is your value right now in relationships? Like, think about it, whether you're single, whether you're in a relationship, whether you've been married, whether you've just broken up. What is the current value in your life that you're looking for and what does that require? Does that require you to be single, does that require you to be in a relationship, and what type of relationship? Leave your value in the comments below, let us know what your values are.

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