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Hello and welcome to another episode of the All Thoughts podcast. I'm Tracy Alloway.
And I'm Joe. Why isn't thal Joe?
What do you eat more of eggs or beef?
You know?
I was just thinking I want to eat more beef in my life. I probably you eat more eggs ultimately, but like, beef is just so good. Beef is the best food there is in the entire world. I truly believe that. And every time I eat beef, I think about, why don't I eat this all the time. It's so good, It's so satisfying and all these nutrients. I don't have this impulse to snack and eat garbage afterwards. I want to eat more beef.
I'm pretty sure I eat more beef than eggs at this point. I will have the occasional omelet and I mix a lot of eggs into like Asian noodle dishes and things like that, but not.
That I aspire to live. They to have the Tracy Alloy diet.
Okay, Well, speaking of beef except expensive these Yes, this is exactly it. So I'm sure everyone listening to this podcast at this point has heard about rising beef prices in the US. There are a lot of headlines flying around constantly in recent days about this. So, for instance, we're recording this on October thirtieth, and earlier this week, President Trump was tweeting about how he wants beef prices to be lower. He's also been talking about buying beef
from Argentina. It is very much in the news. There's also the whole soybean drama with China.
Yeah, there is a I think it's funny because in that Trump post he said cattle rancher should appreciate how good things are going because high beef prices, but bring them down. There's just a lot, and I've said this before on the show, which is that I think the ultimate marker of civilization is the amount of beef or protein that you can buy with an hour's work, that the median person or the average person can buy with an hour's work. And I think when it's going backwards,
we should be very disturbed. So setting aside, I'm very fortunate. I could probably afford to these as much beef as I want. But the price of ground beef, I'm looking it up on the terminal now it's like tripled since ten that there's like four dollars around the pandemic. Now it's of over six dollars. I think these are extremely serious issues.
I will say I don't think we need to be quite as obsessed with protein Americans especially, we already eat a lot of protein. Say eat more fiber.
I'm not saying we need to be obsessed. Actually, I do think the protein craze may be a little out of hand. I just think this is like a very good measure of the advance of sort of a wealthy society that protein gets more affordable.
I'm going to get you a cow share for Christmas.
Thank you?
All right, Well, I am happy to say we do, in fact have the perfect guest. We're going to be speaking with Bill Bullard. He is the CEO of our calf USA. So Bill, thank you so much, Thanks for coming on.
All thoughts, glad to be here. Thank you.
Thank you also for actually looking the part of a cattle rancher. We really appreciate it.
No one can deny that we're talking to the perfect guest.
All right, So why don't we start really simple? What have you observed about beef prices just in the past few months or so.
Well, we've seen beef prices increasing as you've indicated, and we see cattle pricing also increasing as you indicated. So we now have a positive relationship between the price of beef and the price of cattle, and we are a competitive industry. We do not rely on government price supports.
Were the single largest segment of American agriculture. That cattle industy generates about one hundred billion dollars a year in cash receipts, so it's it's larger than any other commodity corn, wheat, cotton, dairy, and we rely on competitive market forces. But we have not had competitive market forces until very recently. And that's where we need to get into the history of why beef prices are high.
Can I ask very quickly, you said there's now a positive relationship between cattle prices and beef prices. Is that not always the case?
That certainly has not been the case, especially since twenty fifteen. We saw an inverse relationship. We saw beef prices heading skyward beginning in twenty and seventeen, and while beef prices were increasing, cattle prices were falling. And this is really odd in an industry where the only ingredient in beef is cattle, so you would expect there to be a harmonious, synchronous relationship, a positive relationship between beef prices and cattle prices.
One of the things I discovered on the terminal back during the pandemic, I learned all these things. We actually have an index on the terminal, the Hedger's edge beef packer margin, which I imagine to some extent reflects that spread, and we do see it rise generally up really through twenty twenty one, actually started to compress quite a bit. But just actually why is that? Like, what explains why
these things can move in different directions? What is the added factor in the price of beef that is not the price of cattle.
So let's go back to just over a generation. We'll go back to nineteen eighty. Great at the time, we had one point three million beef cattle farmers and ranchers in the United States. We got about thirty seven million cows in our mother cow herd. Beef Prices that consumers paid were about two dollars and forty cents per pound. At that time, we had the four largest packers in
the industry, controlling thirty six percent of the industry. So if we think about how the beef industry works, it's the consumer beef dollar that has to be allocated along
the entire supply chain. So back in nineteen eighty, every time a consumer spent a dollar on beef, that dollar was allocated by competitive market forces, and over sixty cents of that dollar went back to the live cattle producer, the farmer and rancher and the cattle feeder, and less than forty cents went back to the processing part of the beef industry, and that's to the retailer and the packer.
So the producer was receiving the majority shared which made sense because they kept that animal for fifteen to eighteen months before it was slaughtered and converted to beef, and the beef packer only kept the animal for about seven days and the retailer kept it for the shortest amount of period possible. So but the point was is that when consumers were paying two dollars and forty cents per pound for beef, sixty cents of that dollar was going back to the producer and only less than forty cents
was going back to the processor and the retailer. Now jump ahead. Today, we've wiped out over half of all the beef cattle operations in business. Just over a generation ago, we've lost fifty two percent of them. We've wiped out twenty five percent of our Mother Kyle beef herd, and the four largest packers controlled today about eighty percent of
the marketplace. And consumers in twenty twenty four paid about eight dollars in twenty three cents per pound for beef, and now in twenty twenty one, just a couple of years ago, the allocation that the competitive market was making in the marketplace was completely tipped on its head. In twenty twenty one, the packer and the retailer received over sixty cents of every consumer beef dollar, and the producer received less than forty cents. So here's the question, how
would a competitive market could that have happened? How could a competitive forces in the marketplace completely reversed the competitive allocation of the consumer beef dollar within the entire beef supply chain. The answer to that question is it can't. If our market was competitive, that could never have happened. That raises the concerns that we've been struggling with for
the past several decades. Our industry is in a state of crisis and it has been and what has happened is is because of industry concentration and consolidation, the ability of the multinational meat packers and retailers to exert buying power upstream in the supply chain, and the fact that we've entered free trade agreements that have allowed the meat packers and retailers to access beef from around the world
and displace domestic production. Because the beef that we import from Argentina, Brazil, Uruguay, Nicaragua, Costa Rica, Australia, New Zealand, Canada and Mexico, it's a perfect substitute for domestic product. So the more we import, the less we have the ability and capacity to maintain domestic production of this very important protein source, which is beef. And so what we see today is a dysfunctional marketplace. As I described before, since twenty seventeen, we saw beef prices going up that
consumers were paying in the retail store. We saw cattle prices going down. SENSU shows that just in the five year period from twenty seventeen to twenty twenty two, we lost one hundred and six thousand beef cattle operations, farmers and ranchers exited the industry during that period. And the reason that that's happened is because they've suffered long term
lack of profitability. It's because their market is dysfunctional. It's because imports have displaced our domestic production and our opportunity to expand. And now we've hit a huge market shock, an economic shock to the market, and that was the latest drought that occurred in the latter part of twenty twenty.
This is what I was going to ask, so just to we're going to talk more about industry consolidation, for sure, and you know, I'm looking, for instance, at a headline right now about Walmart tightening its grip on the beef market by setting up a new plant. But just to play devil's advocate for a second, how much of this is just down to pure input costs like grain going up, or you know, the drought that you just mentioned, or labor.
Costs at least, especially the move that we've seen over the last year, which I'm sure which cannot obviously be explained by multi decade trends.
So what we've seen is our cattle supplies that tightened to the lowest levels than seventy five years. So we have extremely tight supply situation, but we have incredibly strong beef demand. Consumers willingness to pay for beef appears unbounded as prices of increase, consumers that still cleared the grocery store shelves with the product. And so the latest drought that occurred had accelerated the ongoing liquidation of our US beef cattle inventory. And that's why our supplies are so tight.
And yet you've got incredible consumer demand for beef, and so we have seen a spike in prices because of that strong demand. Consumers continue to be willing to pay more for beef. But that is not how our market has been functioning for the past decade.
Let's say the rain code, there's no drought, et cetera. What are we talking about for a timeline again, setting aside the structural things, what do we talk about for a realistic timeline for getting back to where we think like, oh, we are comfortable with the level of cattle stock that we are happy with the level of cattle stock that we have in this country.
Right, so we currently produce about three billion pounds less beef than what is consumed in America. So large segment of American agriculture actually underproduces for the domestic market. And because of the long biological cycle of cattle, it takes about three years to decide to hold back cattle to breed and then to have a calf, and then to raise that calf to slaughter weight over a period of
fifteen to eighteen months. And so in order for our industry to begin an expansion phase, we would need a price point that incentivizes producers to make the investment to build a herd, and unfortunately that price point occurred back around twenty twenty three. We should be in an aggressive expansion phase now, except that instead of domestic consumers relying on US producers, we've increased the volume of beef imports to record volumes in twenty twenty four. That's displacing our
domestic production. And that increase of imports is not distinguished in the marketplace. Consumers can't tell if the beef they're buying is four and beef for domestic beef, and so that puts the power and control in the hands of the packers and the importers the retailers and not in the hands of producers. So your question was how much
of this had to do with increase in input costs. Well, the increase in input costs reduces the margin that US cattle producers receive at any given price point, and we've seen increased production costs certainly. But the point is is that cattle producers do not set the price of beef. The price of beef is set by the packers and the retailers who sell to the consumer. The producer is a price taker in this market and has been for decades.
They have cattle, they offer them for sale, they accept or reject a bid by the packer, and they're producing a perishable product. So when an animal is ready for slaughter, ready to be fabricated into a beef product, the producer who fed that cattle has a two to three week
window in which to market the animal. Otherwise it degrades in quality, it adds fat instead of muscle, and as a result, the producer has very limited bargaining power and a highly concentrated market as we have now, And when they're selling into a market that's controlled where four packers control eighty percent of the market, they are victims of the abuse of market power that emanates inherently from such
a highly concentrated marketing structure. So the increase production costs reduce the profitability of producers, but it doesn't affect the producer's ability to market cattle. That would be the demand for life cattle, and the demand from my live cattle is offset and undercut by increased volumes of import.
What's the relationship between beef availability and the dairy industry? Dairy cows? So the reason I bring it up, Joe's going to get sick of me mentioning this, But I've been reading this like seventy year old book on small scale farming.
I hate when people are always bringing up books that they I know it.
Bringing up and you know, there's a chapter in it about whether or not you want to go into cattle ranching for beef or if you want to raise dairy cows. And one of the things that you learn from this is that every dairy cow usually becomes a beef cow at some point once it's milk production starts to dry up, it usually gets sold for slaughter. So what's the relationship or the interaction like there.
Well, historically, what you described is true. As the dairy animals have exceeded their production lifespan, they are marketed as call animals into the beef supply chain. And it's a very lean meat product that is mixed with the higher quality trim that we obtain over our grain fed animals that are fed in feed lots or is exclusively for beef. So there wasn't much competition between the beef industry and
the dairy industry. But here recently, as we've increased our technology and genetic abilities, we have begun to raise more male dairy animals and are bringing them into feed lots and feeding those animals, and they are now beginning to compete with the beef cattle farmer and rancher in the marketplace. And this is a relatively recent phenomena that's been occurring in our industry.
Wait, why is that happening?
Yes, well, it's happening because there's the profit opportunity to sell dairy cattles into the beef supply chain, and of course that will compete directly with our America's farmers and ranchers who not only will have to now compete with this increase in the dairy beef sector. But they're already dealing with this undifferentiated, cheaper, important flood that has been negatively affecting their profitability in this industry.
Say a little bit more about Okay, kettle prices have gone up, and so in theory that, as you said, in theory, that should incent more investment, et cetera. By this, talk a little bit more about some of the input costs that a cattle rancher faces. I've been making these decisions to expand their stock.
So one of the first factors is the availability of sufficient land to raise the animal, because in the beef cattle industry, the animal is primarily raised on grass. After a calf is born and it suckles the mother for about four to six months on grass and before it is moved downstream in the supply chain to become a yearly in animal and ultimately delivered to a feed lot where it's fed until it's slaughter weight. And so the input costs include the fuel with which to run an operation.
It includes the veterinary expenses for keeping your animals healthy. It includes the land costs of maintaining sufficient forage supplies with the animal. It includes the cost of equipment to put up hay and grain with which to feed those cattle, and in many instances it includes labor. However, most of the family farm and ranches here in the United States are just that their family farms and ranches attempting to
raise cattle, and there's experiencing increase input costs. You know, we could talk about fertilizer costs too as well, but ultimately the costs have increased due to inflation, and that squeezes the margin that they receive at whatever price point that they're experiencing in the marketplace.
In terms of industry consolidation, the fact that there are basically, you know, four gatekeepers to beef processing in the US. How did we actually get here?
Well, we got here because we were lax in enforcing our US anti trust laws, the Sherman Act of eighteen ninety, the Clayton Act, I think of about nineteen fourteen.
Sherman Act, Clayton Act, those acts. Sorry, the last time we spoke about eggs in a big series about chicken, we talked a lot about antitrust, right.
Well, and that's a huge problem. In fact, it's no coincidence that as beef prices are increasing, we just saw a settlement in a national class action suit in which two of the largest packers, Tyson and Cargill, have purportedly agreed to settle the consumer's complaints about beef price fixed to the tune of about eighty seven and a half
million dollars. So what we have in our industry is a decades long lack of enforcement of antitrust laws that allowed the meat packers back in the nineteen eighties to engage in what was called merger Mania. We saw an unprecedented amount of mergers and acquisitions in the beef cattle industry, and it was through that process and no enforcement of anti trust laws, that the meat packers were able to
achieve this extremely high level of concentration. And in addition to that, Congress realized over one hundred years ago that independent livestock producers were really vulnerable to the monopsony power, the buying power of the concentrated meat packers. So they passed what was called the Packers and Stockyards Act in nineteen twenty one, and this was to ensure that the meat packers not only could they not engage in antitrust
activities such as monopolization and price fixing. But this Act also said they couldn't engage in practices of procuring livestock from producers that was pactly unfair. And so this important act actually helped to bolster the United States' ability to ensure antitrust violations were not incurring in the marketplace, and it gave the independent producer recourse in the event that they were treated unfairly or deceptively by the concentrated market.
The problem is just like our anti trust laws that collected dust on the shelf, so to to the Packers and Stockyards Act, and yet today the US Department of Agriculture has not propagated the rules necessary in order to implement and enforce this over one hundred year old Packers and Stockyards Act that was intended to protect independent livestock producers from the abuse of market power of the dominant beef packers.
Do the children of ranchers want to become ranchers? There was a popular country song that came out in twenty two three by Cody Johnson called Dirt Cheap, and the entire premise of the song is about this dad. There's real estate developer offers them all this land and he's about to take the money and then he gets sad thinking about his kids will never be running around on this And when I hear the song, I got a
little cynical. I was like, yeah, but that daughter is going to sell the land when she gets older, so it's this like she's going to move to a big city. But are there issues in your industry of like the next generation of ranchers, Like, no, I want to sell this land to a data center. I want to sell this land to a housing subdivision so that I can like go work in finance in New York City.
When you have an industry like ours that has lost over half its participants in the course of just over a generation. Yeah, it's not unsurprising that the average age of the US farm and rancher is now somewheres north of fifty eight years of age. And we hear anecdotal information all the time about ranch families who have struggled under an economic cost price squeeze for decades their children have watched, They've encouraged their children to do something else
other than to ranch. And that's a huge problem that we have because part of this expansion phase will require us to attract new interests to attract aspiring cattle farmers and ranchers into the industry. That's not happening. And even though I said that the price point was sufficient to incentivize the expansion over a year ago, we're not expanding and we're not expanding because our cattle producers has recently
witnessed a complete collapse in cattle prices. When we were about where we're at today, and that was just as recently as twenty fourteen and fifteen. At that time, we had the highest nominal cattle prices in the history of our industry, and beef consumers were then paying the highest
nominal beef prices in history. And every analyst, government and private alike, said, the cattle producer is going to receive another three years of very strong prices because of that long biological cycle of cattle.
This is this strange me as a very important data point, the fact that the rancher has been trained essentially to expect that high prices won't necessarily sustain themselves.
Right.
You could see the boom bust, Ye yah, the boom bust. And we talked about this across industries. It's like, great that the price is there, but is the price going to be there in three years when that cow is ready to be sold for meat. It's not enough to just have temporarily high prices.
Well, that's right, and that's exactly what happened at the end of twenty fourteen. In twenty fifteen, when everyone believed that our cattle prices would stay strong, they inexplicably collapsed, and they collapsed further and faster than any time in history. And they collapsed until we hit that point in twenty seventeen when suddenly consumer demand was driving beat prices higher and the meat packers were paying less and less for cattle prices, and so we had this in verse, completely
dysfunctional situation in the marketplace, and producers were hurting. That's the period we lost a hundred six thousand producers from twenty seventeen to twenty twenty two. And only now, after this latest drought that we shrunk the herd size to such an ultra low level, have we seen the cattle prices begin to once again respond favorably to the latent
forces of competition in the industry. They began to chase beef prices upward, and we've seen that more acutely here in the last couple few months as beef prices of increase.
But the fact is is that we have not enforced antitrust laws and what we need to do now is determined to what extent are today's beef prices caused by antitrust behavior in the marketplace, not from the cattle producer, who's the price taker in the marketplace, but by the multinational beef packers and retailers that are actually controlling the beef market here in the United States.
Well, speaking of that end expansion, one thing we have seen is new entrants, new corporate entrants moving into the beef and history and I mentioned Walmart earlier, what's the thinking behind that? Is it just a vertical integration play or what's the additive for a company like Walmart to get into beef.
Well, you think about all of our livestock sectors. So we'll start with the poultry sector. That sector was vertically integrated in the sixties and seventies from egg to play. It's the corporations, what we call the integrators, were controlling the production. The farmers owned their farms and ranchers they invested in the capitol, but the integrators dictated how the farmers would raise those chickens. In fact, the integrator owned the chickens and essentially hired the farmer to raise them
for the integrator. That model was then applied in the eighties and nineties to our hog sector. Back in nineteen eighty, when we had one point three million cattle producers, we also had six hundred and sixty seven thousand hog producers
scattered all across the United States raising hogs. But today we're down to sixty five thousand, ninety percent of our hog producers because that industry, the corporations involved in that industry began to follow the chicken model, and so we reduced the number of participants and they began to raise hogs under a highly concentrated situation, and it's completely vertically
integrated from birth to play. The cattle industry is the last frontier for these major global need packers, and it's because of the forage requirements and the long biological cycle of cattle that has prevented them from engaging in the vertical integration model, which we call chickenization. And we're trying to prevent the chickenization of our cattle industry. But the
reason Walmart's getting into it is because it's profitable. So Walmart has decided it's going to vertically integrate the beef cattle industry. It's going to direct what genetics of farmer rancher has to use in order to raise the animal. Walmart will dictate the production practices and feeding, and then Walmart will provide the marketing outlet for the ucers, and then Walmart will sell that resulted beef product to the consumer.
Hey, it really is chickenization. It's the tournament system basically.
And it will lead to that. So the tournament system is a pricing mechanism that greatly benefits the integrator and allows them to buy the chickens from the farmer and pay less for their managerial skills and raising the chicken for them. And that's a concern we have with the Walmart model. Walmart wants to lock up this segment of the beef industry and they want to eliminate all these cattle producers just have been eliminated. Hog producers were eliminated
in the hog industry, and poultry producers were eliminated. And the first step in the process is you do away with you eliminate the competitive cash market that's what allows them to vertically integrate an industry, and we're seeing in that in the cattle industry, our cash market has been shrinking at an alarming rate, and as we allow this to continue, we will soon see even more vertical integration.
What this means is we're going to hollow out rural communities all across America, just as we have been doing for the past four decades. And that's because we will eliminate profitable opportunities for our independent, family scale farmers and ranchers by eliminating the cash market, by dismantling the competitive infrastructure, and simply handing the industry over to a highly centralized, highly concentrated be packing and retailing industry.
I'm going to veer into some sensitive territory here. I don't know, I think about how you lean politically. I also don't particularly care is fine. All that being said, I think that I have stereotypes, and I think I imagine what the typical cattle rancher, how they are politically, guy wearing a cowboy hat, speaking with a country accent. I would we have a presumption about how they might vote. Again, not you specifically, Well, you know, I have my stereotypes,
et cetera, and they're probably true. Has the current administration, you know, talking, he's been talking to you guys via history social account. You want to to lower prices, but also appreciate him for the high prices. A little unclear he has this current administration been a friend to the independent cattle rancher.
Well, what independent cattle producers needed is they needed our imports to be managed, not to hand to the meat packers the ability to source whatever volume of imports they want to displace our domestic production, to prevent our domestic production from keeping up with growth and population, which is what has occurred here. And so what we needed was the implementation of tariffs and tariff rate quoters on countries that persistently maintain a trade surplus with the United States.
In other words, countries from which we buy large volumes of beef, but we sell to them very little. So we have been calling for tariffs and tariff rate quotas, and tariff rate quoteras, of course, are limits on the volume of beef that any country can export to the
United States. And so when President Trump took his second term, that's the first thing he began doing was imposing tariffs, and for an industry that underproduces in the domestic market, we need the tariffs to provide our industry the space
to expand and increased production. So we strongly supported the tariffs when we saw Brazilian imports absolutely explode in twenty twenty five and even last year, we were thankful that the President imposed a fifty percent tariff on Brazilian exports of beef because that was going to further keep our industry awash in these price depressing imports. But when the President announced this idea to lower consumer beef prices by increasing Argentina's beef import quota rate, we believe that he
was misguided. He was misinformed as to how the market structure work. I don't think he was aware that our industry has just gone through years of depressed prices while consumers were experiencing record beef prices. I don't think he understood how severe the lack of anti trust enforcement has adversely affected our industry and caused our industry to shrink.
And so producers are very very concerned right now because we're at the price point where we should be expanding, but we're not expanding as we should be because of the concern for the market failure in our industry that
has not been corrected. It's because we're not certain anymore whether the President is in fact going to begin to manage these imports or if he was just going to let these packers continue to import whatever volume of beef and cattle they want to displace our domestic production, and they do this without informing consumers where that beef is from. There is no country of origin label on the imported beef product, so consumers can't choose to support the domestics
supply chain versus the foreign supply chain. And that's why we urge in Congress to pass mandatory country boards and labeling immediately. And I think this will help to at least mitigate the negative impact that increased imports from Argentina will have on our industry, because then we can go to the consumer and ask them to choose the higher quality USA produce beef and support US cattle farmers and ranchers.
Look, I totally get where you're coming from, but I live in New York City and I have children to feed, and one of my children loves beef a lot. And the vast majority of Americans are not cattle ranchers by any strategy. So again, I understand that you have a constituency that you represent. You want to make your case. Why should the vast majority of the country, which are beef consumers get no benefit from higher cattle prices, get
no benefit from higher beef prices. Why shouldn't we want the either imports channel or the Walmart, which frankly has a long history of driving prices down in almost any category enter. They're sort of famously a low cost seller. Why shouldn't we support these trends?
Well, look at any other sector in the American economy. So we do import large volumes of goods from China, for example, and a consumer can go to the grocery store and see a China priced product labeled as China product or China or they could buy a USA product, And typically the USA product is going to cost more, But consumers have a choice. They can choose to purchase the cheaper product if they want to. Now jump to the beef industry, consumers have no choice. The product is undifferentiated.
The meat packers are importing this beef from Australia, New Zealand. In these twenty different countries I talked about earlier. They're importing them cheaper than what we can produce it here, but there's no label on it. What there is on it is a US inspection sticker, leading and suspecting consumers
to believe, well, that must be a domestic product. And so because the consumer can't choose between the cheaper foreign product and the more expensive USA produc product, there's no price saving for the consumer because the packers and the retails will price it identical because they don't have to distinguish it, so they pocket the increased profitability of buying low and selling high. And the most affluent beef consuming market in the world, and that's the United States of America.
That's an example of our dysfunctional market. Consumers have not benefited from these increased volumes of imports. Instead, these increased volumes of imports have reduced demand for our domestic cattle, driving hundreds of thousands of cattle producers out of the industry over the past four decades.
Can I start a beef processing plant? Why can't I go into it? It seems like a very profitable business. Certainly, if you're a JBS or someone like that, you seem to be making a lot of money, why don't we have new entrants.
So you have four packers controlling eighty percent of the fed cattle market, meaning they also control about eighty percent of the box beef market, meaning they've got long term and short term contracts with the major retailers. They have shelf space with those retailers. So, if you're a small packing plant trying to get started, how are you going
to market your beef? When you're marketing into such a highly concentrated, consolidated market where the retailer has long term contracts with the largest dominant global beef packers, how are you going to access the marketplace? So we've had lots of smaller meat packers try to start up that it requires a huge capital outlay to do so. Nevertheless, the government actually during the past administration, has been encouraging their
growth and development. But they're struggling. They're struggling because they have difficulty in marketing their product. Even if they're marketing a high quality product, they're marketing into a commodity structured marketplace and the advantage falls to the meat packers. So until and unless we enforce our antitrust laws and our fair competition laws, we will continue to see these upstart experiencing severe difficulty in finding a profitable marketing outlet for their product.
You know, like I said, I really like beef. Everyone's into protein these days. That we talked about this recently on another episode. Protein is really hot. Animal protein in particular is really hot. There's a lot of influencers when people have podcasts and they say things like eat more red meat, and our attitudes about red meat of change. When I was growing up that was scary of don't cut back on your red meat. Now it's like a red meat is like the healthiest thing you can eat.
I don't know if that's true, but a lot of people would say that how much of the prices that we pay, whether it's for the price of cattle or the end price of our ground beef, for whatever steak is about the secular trend towards people wanting to have more animal protein in their diets.
Sure, so, I think it's a huge factor. I think there are a number of factors contributing to the consumer's increased demand and willingness to pay more for beef, and I think they're in life. The answer to the problem. If we enforce our antitrust laws and let the market signals flow in our industry, we will begin to expand and our production will soon hit an equilibrium with the
consumer demand, and we would see prices subside. In fact, if consumers are unwilling to pay current prices for beef, they would shift to other protein sources like lamb, chicken, and pork, and you would see the price point from the retailers begin to fall, and you would see the
high beef prices subside. Actually, but if the government causes us to happen, if the government interferes and forces the demand for live cattle to decline, we're not going to increase the size of our US cattle herd, and America will become increasingly dependent on foreign sources for the beef. Right now, at twenty twenty four, about twenty two percent of all the beef available in the US market was
imported product. And if we look at our sister industry, the sheep industry, would who is the direction our cattle industry is going. In twenty twenty four, seventy three percent of all the lamb consumed in America came from Australia,
New Zealand. We've decimated our domestic sheep industry. Now we're now government has its sights on the cattle industry, and the increasing imports without any product differentiation in the marketplace will simply exacerbate the ongoing shrinking of our cattle producer in terms of the number of participants, number of cattle, and the number of marketing outlets.
All right, we're going to have to leave it there, Bill Bullard, I just realized Bullard nominative determinism. Right, you had to go into cattle. Thank you so much for coming on offline.
My pleasure. Thank you very much. Joe.
That's really interesting. I'm definitely closely related to the Chicken series that I did, and again it seems to be that chickenization the running through agriculture. I hadn't realized that cows cattle ranching were basically like the last frontier agriculture either.
And I, to be honest, I would have already assumed it had been more or less on that. I actually think the Walmart thing is very interesting because on the one hand, people look at an entity like Walmart and it's like, here's this monopsity player. It's gonna drive so much power. On the other hand, you say, here's a new market entrant. This is is like here is it?
The market has just gotten more competitive. I think it's an interesting gut check for people who want to think about like market competition that when you read the headline Walmart is going to get into beef processing, do you read that as like bad or good? Because you asked, why aren't there more interest? Well, here's a new entrant coming in. I have to say.
I shop at on I buy beef. I buy those big Have you ever seen the big, like long packages of ground beef.
Oh?
Yeah, they're pretty good. Actually, I am kind of floored that there's no country of origin label on these. I never thought about that.
I am a little skeptical would change much like might not like, would you spend meaningfully more or less on beef presuming you expect that it was like healthier or whatever, that it was safely arrived.
Yeah, Well, what I would say is I do shop at Walmart, but I shop at Walmart generally for bulk beef, and if I'm looking for the really good stuff, I will go to an independent farmer, of which there are many in Connecticut. And I realized, like not everyone has that luxury, and I will try to get the good beef.
I might try to get the good beef too. It might come from Japan. Don't they like treat their cows really well, like they like give their cows like beer and all that stuff massages. Yeah, No, I think I love talking about animal industry economics. There's a lot of tension. I will say one other thing, which is, you know, I asked that question about like, well, why should we care the beef consuming part of the world, which is the of the country, which is the vast majority of
the country. The US used to run a very big trade surplus and food stuff. Only very recently, in the last couple of years, has that turned into deficit. It's probably a source of some concern to me that like we no longer can domestically satisfy all of our food needs.
If you're worried about domestic semiconduct, then you probably should be worried about food capacity.
I think there are some some overlap issues.
You can't eat the chips, Joe, oh, except.
For except the other chips that we can eat. I know, I think there are some I think there are some things to worry about or think about with food that are a little different, a little similar, that maybe we should talk about more.
At some point.
Absolutely, all right, shall we leave it there for This has been another episode of the All Podcast. I'm Tracy Alloway. You can follow me at Tracy Alloway.
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