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Hello and welcome to another episode of The Odd Laws podcast. I'm Jill Wisenthal and.
I'm Tracy Alloway.
Tracy, we have a mayoral election coming up here in New York City, very exciting. I think when this comes out, it'll be literally tomorrow. We're recording this October twenty eighth. No one knows for sure what's going to happen, but I think it'll be like the day after this episode comes out.
Absolutely and obviously a very heated mayoral election, I think one that's kind of taking national attention as well, which you know, New York is always important, but maybe maybe it's important.
It's always very important to the media. That's definitely the case. But you know what, I think there's obvious reasons why there's a lot of national interest. Besides the fact that as reporters we like to report on our hometown. A lot of cities are dealing with the same challenges that New York is. New York City is a very expensive city to live in. There are a lot of cities that are very expensive, particularly any city that is some
sort of economic dynamism. Right now, New York City has a number of quality of life issues that frustrate voters. Whether it's a crime which has come down with a lot, but you know, safety on public transportation, homelessness, et cetera, public drug use, which in my opinion, has gotten a lot better over the last few years, but it was very prevalent. I saw a lot in the parks in twenty one twenty two. These are not, by no means these issues that are sort of New York oh, dealing
with the Trump administration and the detentions they're in. These are not New York City specific issues at all.
No.
And it's funny as we sat down to record this particular episode. Right when we sat down, I got an email the data behind Chicago's city wide housing shortage.
Chicago's another one.
Yeah, And I mean, there are so many commonalities between these cities. It's definitely worth comparing and contrasting. One thing I got to ask, just for the New York collection, are you still a single issue voter on rats?
Well, if I were my candidate, would no longer. I know, I have to find a number two issue.
I'll do.
I'll start to do some research over the weekend. Good idea anyway you know when obviously one of the cities. I've always been more a southern California guy. But I'm really coming around on San Francisco. We were there last November. We had a great time. I loved using the waimos. It's a stunning city. And it's not just the Bay Area. It's San Francisco specific that is the beating heart of the AI boom right now, so the most important industry
in the world is there. It's truly a lovely city. However, has many of the same quality of life and affordability questions that we face anywhere else. In fact, maybe and some would say, for at least a time, arguably worse.
Yeah, I mean I remember from visiting. It also has some very very beautiful neighborhood with historic buildings, very very cute neighborhoods in many respects, and so you can imagine that efforts to boost housing affordability immediately run into that whole neighborhood vibe.
A few years ago, I was visiting a friend and I said, I love this neighborhood. I love where you lived, and he's like a Gimbi's like, Joe, You're not supposed to say that this is the neighborhood. He's a renter though, so of course he doesn't mind if his house gets torn down for new buildings. Anyway, we really do have the perfect guest to talk about big city governance, all of these things. We are going to be speaking with literally the perfect guest, Daniel Lurry. He is the new
mayor of San Francisco Or. He came into office earlier this year, so he's been in an office less than a year. So Mayor Luriy, thank you so much for coming on the Odd Lots podcast.
Joe Tracy, it's good to be with you. I feel like you were selling our city better than I could. So you two could just keep going. And Joe your love of Southern California. Yeah, we'll get you. We'll get you going on northern California in San Francisco by the end of this podcast.
Okay, well that's a good goal for you. Could could fully flip me over to be Northern California pill. No, I really, I really, I did love it. You know, there's so many different angles that we could start with. People have talked about the homelessness challenge in San Francisco for a long time, setting aside solving it, whatever that means. What is it about San Francisco that, in your view, has made the What are the underlying conditions that the city has faced for a long time such that it
has been a fairly acute problem facing the city. How should we understand the causes of it?
Well, I think it's been going on for three or four decades now. I think we have not built enough housing, not only here in the city but across the state. So it really is a regional and a state issue. I would argue right now, it's not just a homelessness crisis. It's a fentanyl crisis. We have a real crisis on
our streets. I go up and talk to people that are suffering on our streets every single day, most mornings, I spend forty five minutes to an hour talking to people, trying to get people off the street and into shelter, into treatment, into the right kind of beds. We kind of had to live and let live attitude for a while in this city, and that has changed. We have changed that attitude over the last year. We want to
get people off the street and into help. But of course it is an affordability issue statewide, and we need to build more housing statewide. We're in the midst right now of getting a family zoning plan, a new map passed here because the state has mandated that of all counties in the state, and San Francisco is going to do its part, and we need more housing.
Definitely want to talk about the family zoning project, for sure, but just on the homeless issue. I guess one area of commonality between New York and San Francisco is you do have this debate over mental health, and I guess how to balance compassionate outreach with stricter enforcement or stricter policing. What are you doing on that front when you say you need to get people help, what's actually happening?
Yeah?
First off, I don't believe it's compassionate to allow someone to be passed out on the sidewalk. I don't believe we should allow people to smoke ventanyl in our bus stops. We have to put an end to that, and we have to then get people into the right kind of bed, the right kind of treatment. For example, we opened up a sixteen bed center at a place called a twenty two gear. It is a place that someone can walk in.
It is voluntary it's police friendly, it's fire friendly. So they can bring somebody in, they can stay for twenty four hours, they can get onto medication, they can take a moment to relax, and we have staff there then then gets them out to the right recovery bed, to the right treatment bed, of which we have stood up four hundred new beds just this year alone. That are you know, ninety day, six month treatment programs. That's what
we need to do. What we were doing as a city before was we were just building lots of permanent supportive housing, which I believe in. But if you are struggling with a fentanyl addiction and you are put into housing without services, without support, it is.
Not a good fit.
And we have really come to understand that in a really important way this year, and so we are doing a much better job of getting people off the street into a short term care and then into long term care. But we have a long way to go. But that a twenty two Gary twenty four hours is an example of a new approach. One other thing that we've done
since I came into office. In the first month, we readjusted how we do neighborhood outreach or a street outreach we had seven different apartments prior to us ME coming into office. Now those seven different departments are put together in what we call a team of teams.
They meet each.
Morning as those seven departments in one mission outreach team, one tenderloin outreach team. They go out together. They know who their target population is, they know the names of the people, and they try to get them off the street and into those right kind of bets.
You know, there was an incident in New York City recently. I probably should have looked up the details a little bit more, but I think there was some sort of an influencer took some photos of people selling knockoff bags on Canal Street, which they've been doing, which they've been which they've been doing for decades. And then I think ICE came in and I was actually on Canal Street two nights ago, they were back, et cetera. So whatever they supposedly saw looks like it was just for the
cameras for one day. But there is this argument that I've heard which is like, you know what, if you don't want ICE to come in and quote clean up your streets, you should have done it yourself. And I don't really have a strong opinion on like the optimal level of enforcement or the optimal level of like how extreme you want to get to enforce certain quality of life things. But I have some sympathy for this view that like, well, you know, there's all this sort of
public disorder, et cetera. And where were the politicians prior to the Trump administration taking some of these things seriously? Do you think it's fair to say that the Democratic Party in a number of big cities have not taken what people call quality of life seriously enough in the past.
I'm not going to speak for the Democratic Party. I'm I was never in politics. I ran because of the disorder on the streets of San Francisco. I ran. My number one issue is public safety. My number two issue was the behavioral health crisis that we were just talking about. And my number three issue was I want to tell the world and let them know that San Francisco's open for business. We're getting cut the dow Red tape so
our small businesses can flourish. And so I've been saying the same thing for about two and a half years now, from the time I ran to right now on this great podcast, I'm going.
To say we need, thank you.
We need police officers walking the beat along commercial corridors. Our families that are taking their kids to public school and using MUNI deserve IMMUNI stop that is free of people using drugs. It's unacceptable and it was two and a half years ago for me. It's unacceptable to me. So local law enforcement can do the job. We are
short a number of officers. We have the first net increase in police and shares deputies in ten years, a net increase for the first time in ten years, and so we need to get back to full staffing and we can handle it.
So just real quick follow up, Like I agree, I would like to have public transportation stops everywhere where there's not public drug use, public drugs for sale, etc. Where do you encounter the opposition to that? Like, what have you discovered about where the roadblocks are, because again seems really sensible that you shouldn't be using drugs in public, and so where's the opposition? Oh?
Well, I you know, it's funny, I disagree with that. There are people and I talk to them every day. I dropped my kid off, my son off in the mission, and I walked the streets from the mission to Hayes Valley most mornings and there's a bike route and there was four people, four of whom were either in the midst of using drugs or had used drugs, and I was telling them they needed to move, and they we would give them help, we would give them offer of support.
And someone came by, literally in the bike lane, and someone stopped and said, what are you doing? They live here, And I said, this is a bike lane that parents are taking their kids to school on the back of their bikes. They're walking their kids to school. So there is opposition, but I would also tell you that the vast majority of San Francisco and want public safety. They want clean streets, they want safe sidewalks, and we are
delivering on that. Crime is down thirty percent in our city crime and Union Square, our financial district, because of the staffing increase that we put together through something we call the Hospitality Zone Task Force for Union Square, Moscone 're Babuena, which is our downtown hub. Crime is down forty percent. Violent crime in our city. We haven't seen these type of rates since the nineteen fifties. So what we are doing is working, and the vast majority of
people are very excited. This's the first time in a very long time that San Franciscan's the majority of them feel like our city's heading in the right direction, and we are a city on the rise and it's a great time to be here.
Well, tell us more about what exactly you're doing. And one thing I'm very curious about is I guess the division of labor or division of responsibility between the mayor's office or the police force and things like that.
Well, I think the police officers have a responsibility obviously to keep safety, and our District Attorney has done a great job prosecuting and really going after these fentanyl dealers. So you know, I mean, I think your audience you all told me before coming on, is the.
Smartest audience there is.
That's right.
So I don't think I need to explain the difference.
Always say you're the smartest out there.
But you know, listen, our SFPD, they're incredible. They are driving crime down. We have a great partnership with our DA, with our city attorney, with our sheriffs. Our park rangers are doing a great job in our parks as well. It's a team effort and we are united in making sure that everyone here in San Francisco knows. Every visitor to San Francisco knows, every convention goer knows that public safety is our number one priority. We pulled off the NBA All Star Game. We had the Chinese New Year
Parade on the same weekend. It went off without a hitch. We just had a conference with fifty thousand and people last week in San Francisco. We had a demonstration on a Saturday with fifty thousand people marching, zero arrests. We know how to keep people safe, and we're proving it.
You mentioned that you know you want to be a dynamic place for business. We're also talking about homelessness. Should San Francisco keep prop sees? So I understand that on big companies with over revenue of over fifty million dollars, that there's this tiny gross revenue tax. Some speculate that was not confirmed. I don't know if they've said it, that that is one reason that Stripe does not have
its headquarters in San Francisco. Should that be revisited so as to bring more corporate activity into the city itself.
What I've always said is that we need to be compactitive on the tax front. We're out of whack with San Jose and Santa Clara County. So actually every candidate for mayor last year supported what was called Prop M, which kind of realigned our tax structure, got it more competitive. That was an important step for our city. I think it's signaled to everybody that we were serious about being in the ball bark. I think we probably still have
more work to do. The thing that I think companies really look at is the quality of life, and they look at the street conditions, they look at public safety. I think that is without question the most important thing, and they are seeing that they have a mayor that is delivering on that front that I am focused on creating the conditions so that they can succeed. That's our mantra. We want to create the conditions so that small businesses can succeed and that big business is welcome back here.
What I always say, though you two, is I want these companies to be part of the community. Though like I want them invest in our public transit, I want them investing in our public schools. I want them investing in our arts and cultural institutions. I would say for a long time, and I ran Tipping Point Community, which is similar to robin Hood and New York City. Tipping Point was always focused on bringing individuals and companies to help support those that were living in povery, those around
job training and housing. But we need to see more. We need to see more out of our business community. We're going to do our part at the administration to create the conditions for their success, but I need them to help us make sure that San Francisco regains its status as the greatest city in the world. We're not far off. We're closer than most people think. We are the most beautiful city in the world right now, and we are soon going to be the greatest city in the world.
Again, I was going to.
Say New York might take an issue with the greatest city.
In the world.
I know who I'm talking to, Okay, since.
We are talking about companies, one of the reasons we wanted to talk to you is, as Joe mentioned in the intro, San Francisco obviously a massive tech hub, and what we're seeing at the moment in markets and the economy. It's kind of weird because AI related stocks keep going up. Everyone's very excited, but on the other hand, you have a lot of layoffs happening in the tech industry, So I think more than one hundred thousand job cuts at
places like Microsoft and Meta. When you look at San Francisco's labor market right now or overall economy, what are you seeing. Is there a net benefit from AI or are you seeing increased unemployment? No?
I mean right now we're seeing absolutely We're seeing people from Texas and New York and other parts of the globe buying buildings in San Francisco, betting on real estate, understanding that it's not just about AI though, it's really about the ecosystem that is growing up around a company like Open AI or Anthropic or data bricks. These are enabling companies and startups and entrepreneurs in the healthcare space and others like It is booming in that respect.
But I also want to.
Create the conditions so that we have a durable trajectory, not one that is just reliant on just tech or on AI. But because you know, we did that in the twenty tents, we were so solely focused just on tech, and I think what you're seeing here is that we are seeing up broad based recovery, arts and culture. We're seeing new restaurants, We're seeing healthcare really take off also, and so we wanted to be durable, We wanted to
be broad. But there's no question that AI is driving and is a major force, and it's a force for good in terms of jobs.
You know, you can deal with all these CEOs of startups and they go on Twitter and they yap and they threaten to move to Austin, or they threatened to move to Miami, et cetera. I think a bunch of them moved back, but they said they're saying the same thing here. Some of them are like, oh, I'm gonna you know, moved to Nashville or whatever, so and so get selected. What should the next mayor of New York City know about having a productive relationship with a significant part of the tax base.
Well, I would say to any next mayor of any city, don't listen to me, don't listen to I'm ten months in. I am solely focused on San Francisco. I get asked a lot of questions, But you must have.
Learned something, That's what I'm saying.
I'm asking you're asking him to advise his competitors.
But you've learned stuff right in the ten months or whatever, nine months since you've been on the job, what have you learned about, Yeah, interacting with very powerful, wealthy interests.
Well, listen. I think what I've learned throughout my career is that you have to have an open door. You have to have conversations with people. Most importantly, you have to listen to people, whether you know you're trying to get family zoning. Our housing plan passed, and I'm in neighborhoods that you all were describing before who are like, I'm worried and I'm scared, and there are a lot of people fearful about new housing. And you have to go listen, and you have to work with them, and
you have to invest. And I think the same goes with our immigrant community, goes with our arts and culture communities, It goes with our restaurant tours, who I sit down and meet with and listen to the struggles that they have with their power bills going up thirty forty percent over the last two years. I pride myself on listening to people, working with people, and then getting to the right solution that's going to benefit as many San Franciscans as possible.
So on zoning, since it keeps coming up One thing you hear a lot, especially in the case of San Francisco, is that the housing shortage is mostly about restrictive zoning and regulation and things like that. Is that it how restrictive is the regulation and are there other factors I suppose that are playing into this.
Absolutely.
I mean, listen, it's been restrictive, but the state has loosened those restricts is quite a bit. We are doing everything we can to make it easier to build more affordable housing. I went to three ribbon cuttings last week, three different sites for one hundred percent affordable in different parts of the city. The cost of labor is really high, the cost of goods is really high. So it is not just about our zoning plan. It involves a lot of other issues as well, and so I'm very hopeful
that we pass this family zoning plan. But it does not mean the next day that building will start. It is we need to see, you know, interest rates are likely to come down. That's going to be important. We have to work with our friends and labor to make sure that the cost of labor does not continue to be something that makes it so that we don't have people working and building.
Specific what do you just give us the quick synopsis of if this passes, what will change from now to after your family the family zoning proposal?
Well, I think it's just going to make it easier. We have lots of amendments still to be worked on, to be quite honest. That's going to protect rent controlled units of three or more that are in a building. It is going to allow for more housing to get built more quickly, so you won't have to go through as much of a process. But once again, I don't think you're going to see of a huge difference during let's say my first term. We have to see those
other factors play into it as well. But I really think it's going to allow the children that are growing up in our city to really dream that they can stay in San Francisco. We had an independent analysis that said it's going to drop rents by between eight hundred and fifteen hundred dollars a month. That's a huge difference for people. So we are very hopeful that it allows our city to become more affordable. There's a pushback often from people that say this plan will make it unaffordable.
I say, this city is really unaffordable right now. People say this is going to hurt small businesses. I say it's going to provide more customers. What we're going to see with this plan is more density along commercial corridors and along transit lines. That is where the bulk of the height will go up. It'll go up to six
to eight stories along commercial corridors. And what I've told everybody, in residential neighborhoods, we have basically four stories everywhere seventy seven percent of our plan, there are no height increases. We're really protecting our residential neighborhoods, our jewels that you were talking about before. And it's going to also help us prevent our Ocean Beach from becoming Miami Beach, which is a real fear that people have, and I understand it,
and I don't want that. I want our sunset and enrichment neighborhoods to retain their unique character.
You know, Joe, I have yet to experience a rent decrease in New York ever in my life. Well I heard some people got them in twenty twenty, right, but I wasn't here. So that's a novelty seeing rents go down in a major city. If it happens so What have your conversations actually been like with developers, What are they saying their needs actually are in fulfilling some of this project.
To be quite honest, I haven't had that many conversations with developers, and when I have, it's really around interest rates,
the cost of labor, the cost of construction. I've had a lot more conversations with people out in the West Side and the North Side, which is predominantly where this family zoning plan is focused, because we are building in other parts of the city and the state is mandating in high resourced neighborhoods, and so you know, we haven't had a zoning change on the West Side of San Francisco since the nineteen seventies. That's important for people to know.
So I'm really speaking to people that are understandably anxious, fearful, and really trying to explain to them that we have really listened to them over this past year. Really making sure that height increases you won't see many of those, but allowing people, if they own a home, to divide into two units so that their kids could stay there long term. This plan meets the requirements of the state, and I think it's a really thoughtful well laid out plan.
A lot of Democratic Party politicians. We're opposing Trump's agenda, whatever that means, opposing Trump's agenda, protecting the city or the state against Trump's agenda. You mentioned immigrants. Do you feel that you have a responsibility to protect San Francisco's undocumented residents against Trump's agenda? Is that a useful thing.
I have a responsibility to take care of San Francisco's and everybody here in San Francisco. I have a responsibility to protect people coming in for a convention. I have responsibility to take care of our communities, and so I don't think about it in the micro term. But we have our policies in place here in San Francisco that have kept us safe. They've kept us safe for decades.
When you have the policies that we have in place that make sure that local law enforcement are not tasked with federal immigration enforcement, that allows people to report crime, that allows people to take their kits to the hospital, It allows people, It allows our city to stay safe. And the numbers are bearing it out, and I just keep reiterating that my focus is on keeping San Francisco safe and it's working. We have the lowest homicide rate on record in terms of we haven't seen these numbers
since the nineteen fifties. Crime in our downtown is down forty percent. Crime citywide is down thirty percent. So what we are doing is protecting the people of San Francisco. We're protecting our visitors and businesses. Everyone is seeing that it is working. And so that's how I answer that question.
What advice do you have for the incoming New York City mayor whoever it may be.
But that's the second time you got you two have asked me that question.
Not on tax though, not on tax something cooperative.
I think you know. Listen, I've talked to mayors across this country, and many of us have discussed that staying focused on your people, staying focused on your small businesses, focused on your public schools is the way to go. But once again, I don't think other people in other cities should be taking my advice. I think they should
be doing what works for them. I'm doing what I believe works best for San Francisco, and right now I am feeling like and I think the vast majority of San Francisco's are feeling like we're heading in the right direction, and I'm just going to keep my head down and keep driving and getting results for the people of San Francisco.
I'd love to end it on a very big picture, nice note about your results. I'm sure you'd like to end it there too, But I have one last question that's a little bit more specific. Significant chunk of San Francisco's budget operates through nonprofits, and I think there's a significant amount New York and other cities as well. How do taxpayers know that that money is being well spent? Is How do we know that that is a good allocation these sort of private enterprises that do services, whether
it's really to housing, whether it's related to homelessness. How do you establish accountability such that we know that these are good allocations.
Yeah, I think people should want answers on that front, and we are working on it. So I came into office in January. We had an eight hundred and seventy million dollar budget deficit, the largest budget deficit in our city's history. We close that with a mix of many things, including a hiring freeze that we put into place immediately. We cut twenty five percent of the discretionary funding that was available to cut to nonprofits, which was incredibly difficult.
We are putting in metrics. This is what we prided ourselves on at Tipping Point was whold organizations accountable, getting results, and so we are working on that now. So I came in in January. The budget was due in June, so we had it was a sprints essentially, most administrations wait until January to start planning. We put our budget before the Board of Supervisors in late June. It got
passed on August first. August second. We were planning for this upcoming budget and we are playing accountability measures into place on our contracts to nonprofits. But one thing I would say is that the nonprofits need to be held accountable, but so do my departments. I have some departments that don't pay those nonprofit providers for twelve months. We have small nonprofits floating city government that has a sixteen billion dollar budget. We are floating them money. So we need
to hold everyone accountable, and it starts with me. We have a tremendous budget in San Francis. We all know that it has not been spent as well as it could be. I was frustrated by that. For years working at Tipping Point, I saw it up close and now I want everybody to hold me accountable in the years ahead. But we're going to put metrics in place. We're going to hold nonprofits accountable, and I'm going to hold my department heads accountable as well.
Mayor Lurie, thank you so much for coming on od Laws. Hope to chat with you again at some point.
Thank you very much. And just so you two know, we end everything in San Francisco, because we're on the rise. We gotta just share our how great San Francisco is going with a let's go San Francisco.
Okay, I love it. It is a great city. I still it's the climate part of the southern California that for me, I can't you know. It's still my favorite.
But it's seventy five degrees outside right here, right now. It is a gorgeous day here outside your studios along our near our ferry building.
Definitely better than New York right now.
Yeah, let's go. That's what I'm talking about. Thank you so much for having you, Tracy.
I would like to believe that with many of the sort of you know, challenges I guess that big city is faced, I would like to believe it's just a matter of will you know what I'm saying, I would like to believe that all it takes is someone saying, you know what, we're going to be accountable. We're committed to addressing these things, whether it's homelessness, whether it's crime, whether it's public drug use, et cetera. It would be nice if the issues just resolved, like wanting to do it,
you know what I'm saying, I'm not sure. Like the way it sounds, you know, talking to Mayor Lurie, it sounds like one of the big changes, like oh, as he put it, we used to have a live and let live attitude and now that's not the case. I would like to believe that that really is the difference. That is just like an attitude change.
I feel like there's a butt coming. But you would like to believe.
But no, it's just like if it's that simple of an attitude change, then a lot of these things could be solved. I guess my butt is no. No, But I just like I'm not sure if that's the case, Like that's I guess right. But he certainly presents a compelling argument. I mean, I think like crime is down in a lot of cities there. We know that it's spiked in twenty one, twenty twenty two at the whole chaos,
post pandemic, etcetera. It's been coming down everywhere. I think there are a lot of mayors that can point to a decline.
So what I'm.
Saying is I would like to believe that the decline in crime in San Francisco can be pointed. It's like, oh, we have a mayor who now decided to tackle these things as opposed to just sort of general trends.
Does that make sense?
That makes sense. One thing I will say that I found very interesting was, you know, he talked about that ecosystem of tech companies. Yeah, and it kind of reminded me of some of the conversations we've had about tech development or even manufacturing development in China and the idea that you know, you can have a competitive advantage because you know that when you move to a certain place, you're going to find like an engineer around the corner,
you're going to find that particular programmer. So it was interesting to hear that sort of echoed in San Francisco.
It's interesting that there's a lot to do. I mean, it's interesting that we used to talk more about the Bay Area in general, like oh, yeah, you know, and now it's really becoming a San Francisco story. And a lot of these AI companies, you know, you don't hear about like one of those random Mountain Sunny Veil or mount what's the one that Cooper Tino, et cetera. All these, you know, like all of the And that's its own fascinating thing, which is that AI does not strike me
as a bay Area story. We don't have had time to get into this, but AI does not strike me as a Bay Area story so much is it. It's a San Francisco story. These are San Francisco companies and they're not just like somewhere like down the peninsula or whatever.
It's funny now that you mentioned that, I'm thinking like bay Area seriously, a term I have not heard for a very long time.
Isn't that interesting?
Yeah?
The Bay Area is, or even Silicon Valley. Yeah, is like it's really about San Francisco, which I think is sort of an interesting phenomenal And I don't really know why, because.
It's interesting phenomenon.
Interesting phenomenon. It's an interesting phenomenon because when it comes to hard tech. When it comes to manufacturing, I have a very intuitive understanding of why agglomeration matters. Right, you want to be able to get this provider, and distance really matters. It's not intuitive to me in the same way, why with something like any software, let alone AI, that there would be such a tight cluster. And yet it does seem to be a very tight cluster there.
Well, there seems to be a network effects yea, some sorts.
I totally know why that is, in the same way the network effects exists with say manufacturer, because we remember twenty twenty work from homework from anywhere, Slack exists, ib exists, et cetera, and yet everyone's together there. We didn't get too much into this, but I do think that's an interesting reason to be interested in San Francisco right now?
For sure? Shall we leave it there?
Let's leave it there.
This has been another episode of the Odd Lots podcast. I'm Tracy Alloway. You can follow me at Tracy Alloway.
And I'm Jill Wisenthal. You can follow me at the Stalwart. Follow our guest, San Francisco Mayor Daniel Luriy. He's at Daniel Lurry. Follow our producers Carman Rodriguez at Carman Arman, dash Ol Bennett at Dashbot and kel Brooks at Kelbrooks. For our Oddlots content, go to Bloomberg dot com slash odd Lots with the daily newsletter and all of our episodes, and you can chat about all of these topics twenty four to seven in our discord discord dot gg slash odlots.
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