21- Norsk/Norwegian language Part 1

Welcome to Normal for Norway. I'm Indigo And I'm shamus. So sit back, relax and trace your linguistic routes. Proto Indo European. That was beautiful. Yeah, thank you. That's a tongue twister. Fully we wrote it down this time. Do you remember last time we tried to wing it? We tried we couldn't remember five words but I mean I also just I don't even think I said my But it's just so hot. Yeah. It's a lot of pressure in this living room as well. The birds are tweeting it.

Maximus is probably listening to the right. Yeah, that's the cat. For those of you who are not true fans. Yeah, exactly. Fake fans. Ja, it's pretty so beautiful day. Oh my gosh, speaking of... I don't know if I told you. No. Um shout out to Ollie, I think his name was. He's from Wales. Yeah. And he came into This week, an entertainer on a cruise ship or a many cruise ships. Like that's his job. Oh. Really? And he was like, Yeah, I I go on cruises all over the world. Norway.

Yeah. Started listening to our podcast and so he's Does he speak Welsh? I don't know, I didn't ask But yeah That's the topic of our Yeah. When was this? Five years ago. Oh my god. No it was this week and I felt so bad'cause I was like Oh my god, yeah, we have But I mean we've got a back catalogue. We've got like eleven episodes. Or how many do we have? Like twenty actually. What? We've been doing it for three years. That's not that long like that's not that much for three years.

But anyway, he was great and so nice. So he's a true fan. I love it Um We're gonna talk about n the Norwegian language. Yeah. Mm. Yeah. I want to know the news. What's happened since Well, also we need to talk about the weather. Yeah. It is like I will recap the weather. Hang on, I have the weather app on my laptop. You're like, what's the weather right now? Okay. It's currently twenty degrees. What? Is that possible? Yeah, well...

But what's the real feel? Hang on. Because it feels really hot because it's really um humid. Humid. Oh seventy percent humidity. It's a the moon is waning gibbous. What does that mean? Does that have to do with the weather though? No, but it's just like you know, like on this app it tells me all the actual stuff. But anyway, I mean regardless, it's nine

It has been twenty six degrees today. Twenty-five degrees. And it's also very humid. I feel like it's funny though, like when you're from Ireland or like or like when you live in Ireland or when you live in Norway and like you talk about The weather's so hot and we're like, It's twenty three degrees or it's currently twenty degrees and then people from like I don't know Singapore are like That's like the wind.

We're not maybe used to it. Or like also our buildings aren't like built for this kind of thing or I don't know. Yeah, I think it's a combination of things. No, but it's genuinely so warm. It fully went from Dead winter. And also wait, was the last pod we did about the cold? Yeah, it was. Oh my god, okay, so that that goes to show In first though we're busy people. We're so busy. Yeah. Um Seamus is starting a new business. Yeah. Yeah.

I'm running the bookstore. I'm doing future library. I'm freelancing. I'm I'm doing a Yeah, we're also full time socialites. And we gotta like, you know, do laundry and stuff like that. Yeah, so sorry, when we last did the episode I just read our description, it was minus twenty four.

So plus twenty four. So it's fifty degrees warmer than what it was. So like if you're sitting in Singapore listening to this and thinking like, Oh those those pussies like it's not that warm, it's only twenty degrees. Well I want you to think about it being fifty degrees warmer than the coldest day in Singapore. Exactly. Yeah. What would you do? What would you do then? Yeah,'cause they never get freezing temperatures so then the fifty degrees they don't they You don't even know.

It's lovely. We've been swimming We went swimming just. I've been like at the beach all weekend. The house is like in a state. I feel like when you live in Norway Life. Life is too like when we get good weather it's like you don't want to clean your You don't wanna waste it and you know, last year do you remember it was like nice weather in May and June and then July it? Yeah, I don't want to talk about that. Don't remind close the windows. Yeah.

Yeah, sorry. Remember when I did that last July? That was so funny. It was so miserable. Oh, good lord. Yeah. All right. The news. The news. So we were sitting on the right. But I actually so Like do you read the news? In Norway. Yeah. Honestly I I probably No, I mean I read the I went on it today and I was reading it out to you and I was just like I don't see why any of the things I'm not going to I think everyone's in the weather like there's Okay.

But I have two things. The first is actually from Um Here are the similarities. But then the similarities that they found are Or hug a tree. What? And so somebody like What the I guess maybe a Well um Yeah. And so this this um I guess researcher or like Did she like do this with AI or something? But I mean you probably need like...

And she's trying to say tell us that it's a trans Well I think she The hugging the tree Oh but it's not quite hugging it's like as if it's a little bit more than a little Um you know when like Yeah. Obviously like maybe it's like wedding photographers that are like, Okay, I've got these poses, but now I'm doing a confirmation and it's just a single person, what do I do? Let's just imagine that instead of the Mm.

I should I should be involved in this research. She can quote me on that. You can have Hypothesis. Uh but the the news that I found. Wait, what else about that news? Just that people are hugging it. It was literally. In the nineties. Yeah, okay. Um the individualism is creeping in even into socialist Norway. Terrible. Oh, very good. Yeah, I'm trying to like saving your I'm trying to think now what it would be. Anyway, the fans can write in.

Yeah, but we do our confirmation very young'cause the Catholics they want to get you in when when you're twelve. Then you're confirmed in the church, no turning back. So like if they wait till they're sixteen. Oh I did everything like baptize no Christian. Communion Which by the way for your communion so you do your communion when you're like seven or something, your first communion. And to do that you have to do a confession because you need to be pure to receive the communion.

Like selling drugs or like whatever I was doing when I was like, No, I think it would just be things like Oh I was like a bitch to my mom or like oh I ate all of my brother's like favorite cereal. Is that a sin? Yeah, d uh thou shalt not disrespect thy mother and thy father. No maybe. See I was never confirmed. But the problem is in Ireland the education system is still not properly

So like a lot of the schools are Catholic and they can technically r refuse you to join if you're not like have gone through all the rights. So even though my parents weren't that religious, they're just like, Well, I think in Ireland it's still like ah, we'll just get them do all the things And at this point

To see the little girls running around in their like basically wedding dresses is like what they wear for their communion. I've seen the photos, yeah. Yeah, I was dying to wear one of those. But, okay. Yeah. The news is That's good. That's melt. Okay. Oh my god. Found a naked and unfortunate. So former fishery. This is a big deal. So just yesterday this is breaking news. Everything was not as it should be. Well, according to her, some people might like that.

Exactly. The first thing I saw was a naked eye. Oh yeah. And she says yeah, strange man. I became Oh my god. Uh they got an apology. Wait, because did they give that man their room? I guess. Because if her key stopped working maybe they I mean a new room, but listen, she's complaining. I want to hear his side of the story. asleep in my bed like trying to relax. Yeah. I mean I Who's assaulting who here? It's like also the keyboard.

No, especially in this heat. Exactly. What's the weather in Liverpool? Shall I look that up on my And it says after the experience she couldn't Um I would have had a lot of people. I mean I I do I do I do. Yeah, I mean the whole it's really it's the hotel that is to blame here. As per usual. Um... Yeah. I don't know what I'm saying. Liverpool's great. You know actually good segue.

Did you know that? No. Yeah, and like the like scouse? Yeah, the well no, so the dialect they speak, yeah, maybe the dialect they speak there is like scouse. You know, like they talk like this. I can't really do it. But and apparently where that comes from

So they had a very popular uh like food there which was like Lap Scous because the Norwegian sailors would go to Liverpool a lot'cause Liverpool's a really important port and they would have Lap Scouse and then Lapsk became Scouser, so it's actually from Norwegian.

I know. Destiny. Seven topics. Okay. Right. Basically, uh Norwegian, like many New European languages, but not all, traces its roots back to Proto-Indo-European. So like the languages the language groups that come from Indo European are as broad as Persian, Nepali, Gujarati, Russian, Greek. So on. Interestingly, I know we're normal for Norway, not normal for Nordics, but Finnish is on like a completely different branch. It's not even Proto Indo European. Something

Yeah, exactly. Uh and also talking about our friend Welsh Welsh is there. And it's kind of like over on our'cause you have basically European branch and then you have like Indo Iranian and then like yeah, all those Indo Iranian ones are over there and then we have Um but Germanic languages uh they emerged basically as Indo Europeans migrated and started to come in And Proto Norse, an early form of North Germanic, developed around the first century. So it's not that Yeah, it's pretty crazy.

Well, yeah. How many years ago is that? A D. No, so that's like Well I mean it's two thousand years ago. I was thinking Yeah two thousand but I feel like No, it's not that long Like Like in the grand scheme of things. Because like how long were peop how long have people been like speaking Southern Sweden is where this kind of like

originated, I suppose. Um and the elder footh foothhark inscriptions, which we've already talked about. Do you remember when we had the part about books, we spoke about how they were like scratching stuff on stones and like what they were scratching was like Here. Um which is the oldest the earliest written records of Proto Norse and it's like yeah, it's on objects, runestones It says here serving as memorials or containing magical cards. But we know they were just writing like a

So and so fucked so and so. Or like beer. They would just write like beer everywhere. Maybe maybe though that was like a Maybe they were like hoping that beer would Manifesting. I didn't. Yeah. So then around eight hundred So eight hundred years. The script simplified into younger Photarch, coinciding with the Viking Age, and then the spread of old North So like I have this massive

Which shows like the extent of Old Norse and related languages in the early tenth century. So it's basically kind of like all over Northern Europe. So you have it obviously all over Norway, Sweden.

Then like along the kind of like lowlands country coast. Um and then you have it in Ireland, Old West Norse dialect, and then you also have Old East Norse dialect in England, like York. And no. Which is where we got the name for our pod from, normal from Norfolk. Do you know that phrase? Did I did we talk about it? No, so like the joke is that like everybody in Norfolk is inbred and so like someone can be normal for Norfolk but like be completely fine.

Is that where you got the name for a podcast? Oh my god. And like Liverpool you can see also is West. So Liver Liverpoolans would have been speaking the same old Because the they say like the Vikings in Ireland were from Norway and the Vikings in England were from Denmark. So maybe that was like West Norse versus East Norse? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Uh

Well or they're depressing. Also there's one here all called Old Gutnish dialect. No clue. Oh, that's like what they spoke on Gotlon. They had like their own language on Gotland. You know that small island of Sweden? Yeah. Anyway. Um Ja, nein, das heißt ja. So and then I suppose at some point Turned into modern Norwegian. Um but Norwegian is like an interesting one because it was obviously so heavily influenced by Danish.

So like written down, it's almost like the same language. Yeah. Um No, our third point. I suppose the listeners don't know the But wait sorry, do you have anything to do? Uh. No, not really. Oh yeah. We read primary texts from when the Vikings had invaded. They're saying. Well because yeah, of course the the monasteries and stuff they would raid the monasteries I thought the Vikings were writing. No, I wish. No no no but they were but that's the thing Mm-hmm. Yeah.

I think like in general in the like ancient world, people were much better at like integrating. Like, if you ever read about like the history of like the beginning were not that bad. They were all like going over there Like individuals sort of going over are gonna be like, Oh well like I'm I'm Yeah, it's like we want the like the goodies to come back. Because they basically did two conquests of Arden, like the Normans came. Then the Normans they like the phrase was like they became more irish.

So then for the second one when like Queen Mary started her plantation We're not having any of that.

And that's kinda like when they came up with all their fucked up shit which has been like the blueprint of like colonialism, which is You know, stamp out the language, stamp out the like religion, like don't allow the colonizers to mix with the blah blah. But sorry what I'm saying. Uh they weren't fans, I can tell you that much. No, they were just like oh they stole all of our relics Yeah, it's quite good. Literally like writing it from the

Oh you did? Yeah I did. Oh my god, maybe it was your But yeah. Yeah, well. Listen. You know, I feel like this is more people have it on the bottom You have like brushing their hair. So then you have I suppose or like modern there is no like standardized Because you have two like official riches. But actually which we will talk about more in part two, which we've actually already recorded Which is a Movie magic. Yeah. It's so exciting though. It's gonna be an incredible. Um yeah.

But um Norwegian is like very diverse and it's also like quite like acknowledged that there's just many differences in the language, unlike English, which is kind of like quite strict. But basically in the nineteenth century. Norway was occupied by Denmark, and essentially most of the people that were like literate and like urban and middle class were kind of speaking Danish. In the nineteenth century, this guy called Uh a self taught linguist. Yeah.

Who who aimed to create a written record standard for Norwegian based on rural dialects. So he was like, Okay country and like write pretend what everyone else is speaking. And it was like part of like this nationalistic movement. I suppose this was also kind Yeah, they're doing all that. That was like the vibe in the nineties. They were like put on a boon and pose. Yeah. So anyway, he wanted to establish a distinct Norwegian identity separate from Danish identity.

It was originally called Lansmall, so kinda like speaking and actually it was renamed to Ninoshk in nineteen twenty nine uh and there was like a vote. It was almost gonna be called Um but it's kind of weird when you think about it that's called Ninoshk because it's sort of like it's not new. Yeah, it's not new. It's it's like OG. But it's also the thing that I hear from Norwegians is like they're like the problem with Ninosh.

It's like an amalgamation of a load of dialects into one written form, but like no it doesn't actually Cover one. So yeah. Learn. Yeah. If you learn like that. A and also just the spelling. But I mean it's okay. Like'cause when I read Yeah, yeah, totally. Because there's like dials all these different dialects, but like it's more like basically more So uh like uh commune or like municipal.

Ninoshka Buckmall, but I think like eighty percent But it's quite like a large geographical area that uses Ninosh'cause it's like the pla places where like now we live. Exactly. And there are some laws about this like the national There's Ja.

Um and then it says both languages have influenced each other over time. And then they're kind of like trying to reform it. Oh yeah. There was actually a movement called Samnoshk that was just like, let's just merge them both to be The problem is there's like this conservative out of the Who uses the And then you have like No we're like. We're like blowins.

But like Yeah, so then it's like uh Yeah there was like a little bit of a Small and that should just be like the one like written language, and it'll be like super close to Danish, even the form that bookmall has. Mm-hmm. And then I think we can go to the right. They speak it. They every day. They do speak it. Und das ist auch... But it's like do you not think it's subconscious? I think it's a good idea.

Well you know, I went to university in D. When people from the country They're like, oh my god, when I go home now... Because I like sound so like Dublin, but it's just because like probably they're like sick of people being like, What? Yeah. Okay, I'm just not gonna use that word anymore. 'cause I can be understood. And also you're imitating people around you to like try and fit in. Yeah. Probably. No, of course, yeah. Um but it is the mother tongue of around ninety percent of the population.

Norwegian. Oh okay. Um I would say if we want to talk about our personal experience then Yeah. But they won't really Yeah yeah. Well'cause I think it's like it makes sense, is right, like when we're speaking Norwegian, or like maybe not you, but like for me it's like I'm not as in Norwegian as I am in English because of course like you're having to like your brain is working a little bit harder. Of course, yeah. So it's like you're not quite as like snappy and also or or also like maybe reading

If you have to like say those in Norwegian, it's just like a bit of a hassle. And maybe you're just like, uh, I'm not bothered with this. Or like I'm just it's just more of a hassle. Yeah, for sure. Um Yeah yeah. And I think actually if anything it's maybe good because probably my personality in general is

Too much for them. Yeah, like I saw a meme that was just like a woman with like tears streaming down her face, being like, I want so badly to be mysterious, but I just And that's kinda like me, whereas like when I'm speaking in a in a Norwegian speaking context, I'm like saying I'm saying less. I'm just like listening in and then if I have something really important to say I'll be like, Ha ha ha.

Yeah. Yeah, right. Yeah. Or I don't know if you get that I get that a lot where people are like but why did you learn But why do you speak to Richard? I don't get the question why so much, but I'm more I just more like I've been here for four years and I'm you know, I'm okay and people are like impressive. No but you know what's so funny? Because I had a class before I came. So I I actually could have an okay not amazing but Yeah. From month one to year nine has been the same.

Like, I think by the way we talked about this. yeah yeah yeah that's true we talked about that We're like the old people that like keep telling the story over. Yeah. But yeah, no, it's just like people are so in a way like Yeah. And it's like it's like the opposite in France. Like you know, like you come into France as like a tourist who like you know, it's like I have no reason to speak your language, even though I feel like French people do still think like But I feel like...

Like a thing of like, oh France is like a an international language. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh I was gonna say the UN but Okay. And the UN. But like... The Eurovision and the U.S. Come on. Yeah, true. No, but like as in it's a very important thing. France is kind of like an official international It's not really as in like for people it's like you would never think like oh I need to like And whereas like when you go to France as a tourist it's like I go

And like you go, and it's like the French are like disgusted that you're like not speaking in French to them. It's like, why would I? I'm trying though. But you know what? I heard it. Either was Frenchman. For a while. And they said that the French are actually Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what I did. Yeah. When I was in Lyon. No no no no. I was actually just in Lyon and everyone was

But there was like one place I went in and I was like, Parlez-vous anglais? And then she was like, No, and I was like, Okay. Uh je you know Je suis une baguette. Like no, like literally just sweet uh cheese. Like I was in a cheese shop. And then like oh yeah, eventually she was like, Okay, I don't speak English but like I speak But you're an idiot. You're a wheel of cheese. Yeah. I was like, okay, thank you. But the well the massive thing is I stood Yeah.

Yeah, exactly. And that's the thing. And like Alex doesn't speak any French. I could just as I was like sweat dripping like down my brow, like looking at all the wheels. looking over at me like terrified. I would like look over to Alex and he was just looking at me like Yeah, I know. Yeah, it was actually kind of fun, but it was also kind of stressful because I did genuinely want to communicate some things to her. And I was just like, oh my god.

'Cause also no, the strange thing with this scenario, my phone had no signal. So you know the way normally you would just revert to like look, I'm just gonna do Google escape room. So yeah, it was like as if I was putting They're around fifty five. But Oh, Nitty gritty of this because They're speaking old Morse. Well practically no but more than that. Who are these people? I won't go into the details of what they're doing. No, I think that's a good thing. She's from like this concert.

Mm-hmm. But my Norwegian teacher one of my first Oh yeah yeah yeah. Who's literally a hundred years ago because it hasn't like gotten updated. And so He was like, Oh, I So It's like Dekenzian. It's very yeah, it's really Um next short little thing is um the language council of Norway, Spronde. Yeah. Yeah. But it's a sub agency. But sorry, why why do we need that? I think so. And in two thousand four there was a Mm-hmm. Like from English, bacon could be spelled Yeah. And so the thing.

Can you still be able to do that? And there were around. But b got such like big pushback that I think it just I It felt like it Yeah, because they also had pub. Oh really? P O Like O with a dash. B B. Yeah. Because my colleagues were talking about this the other day and they looked it up and it was like wasn't there anymore. So I think they'd like been like no.

To be honest, as a for but as a foreigner, sometimes it's helpful when they change the spelling of the loan words into Norwegian. Because sometimes when I'm reading Yeah, true. Obviously bacon I know. Yeah. But like I remember like one time reading an article and it was like Uh there's like a load of hype about like oh yeah And I was like reading it out to my colleagues and I was like they had manga heap.

And then they were all like cracking up being like, uh only a foreigner would pronounce hype as heap But I'm like, Well, if it had been written as me ho like H E I P Then I would know. Yeah. But because you write it as anyway, it's confusing. That that So they can So that's also cool. The Sami don't have their own like Or do they Yeah. Yeah, true. There must be something. I'm sure we'll do an episode on the episode. Oh my birthday'cause you know my birthday is a national Sami Day so next year.

Yeah. Probably. February sixth. We're s we're gonna still be cooling down from this twenty degree day for another like six months. So to gain citizen. university level classes in our region. So Aspiration. Yeah. Jag vill bli kona. Nej, jag vill bli konga. I just said I wanna be wife. Well that could be an aspiration. It's probably an aspiration that many people hope. Um there are exemptions if you're okay. Yeah, yeah. So if you're over sixty seven Bye! Uh Can't teach an old dog new tricks.

Yeah, because they're like... That's ages. Super old. The sixty eight year olds listening are like Yeah, no. Like that's fair. Like a sixteen's not that old, but like I don't know, I think they're a bit like, well You've been through enough. You've done enough. Like sorry everyone who's sixty eight. Um no but But if you're sixty nine then you are a super Uh I feel like this is gonna come back to Bible. And but there's also health. What about if you're dyslexic?

Uh I think Maybe could like you can get for example in Ireland it's it's mandatory to learn Irish. Yeah, so okay, it says if you have personal uh like a personal situation that means it's it's it makes it harder for you to learn Norwegian at Okay. And that could be they say lift. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it could. Or like if you didn't have enough. Like growing up you didn't go to school and then you came. So it's It's probably not that much of a difference between A2 and B one, is it?

I think there actually is any. What level are we? Oh yeah. C seven. I would say you're Those are all And then next week we're gonna get into or next week. Yeah, it's Episode. Like You've waited long enough. Yeah and we're like we're testing out the binge the binge Yeah. Next episode Ja. Idiom. Actually as an aside, as a note.

'Cause we're not too over time. Yeah. Um one of actually the points that I did look into a little bit is the influence on other languages, which we did kinda talk about because Yeah, well maybe I didn't. But like English basically kinda came from like Anglo Saxon? Whatever and like Old Norse also has a lot of influence on the language, which also is why Norwegian is quite In relatively speaking, to learn as an English speaker. Probably one of the easiest languages to learn is like Dutch.

But I actually think Dutch is harder because the la the grammar is in like they do it Whereas like English and Norwegian Because the Vikings and the Irish And so there are quite a few words in Irish that actually are loan words from Old Norse. Ishpeen is the Irish perspective. Which was like an old word for Sausage that the Vikings had. Oh. And then there's like the the problem is because a lot of like the words

boat is boat. But also in Irish it's baud. But for s but somehow they've done the research that they say Bod Bod in Irish which is boat came from boat which was the old Norris for boat and it didn't come from English for boat Yeah. So like there's like loads of these words Another one is pinggin, like penin is money. Oh. And the Irish for a penny is pinggin. Oh. And our word for market is modege, which came apparently from like the old Danish for market.

Wow. There's like but there's like a load of them. And also the one that I noticed myself is that the Irish for rabbit is kunin, and the Norwegian for rabbit is Cunning. Yeah. And the English for rabbit is Ha ha. So there you have it. Ja, ich bin... Bye.