Ellecia 00:07
Hey, I'm Ellecia, your non monogamous relationship coach. Welcome to the podcast where my friends and I chat about our relationships, enthusiastic non monogamy, polyamory, swinging, kink, our lives. You'll get a candid peek into what makes it worth it to live life outside the box. And in case you're still wondering, no we're not monogamous. In my work as a relationship coach, I give lots of advice and tools and practices. And the thing that people always want to know is what worked for me what I've done in my life, or what other people who are non monogamous have done. And they really want to know that what they're doing is normal, and that what they desire is normal, and that what they're feeling is normal, and that their sexuality is normal. And they really want to be validated and to know that they're not the only one. So that's why I've started this podcast. Nope, we're not monogamous. Because it's really great to hear stories and experiences from other enthusiastic non monogamous people. It feels really good to know that you're not the only person who has these thoughts, beliefs, desires, fantasies, and everything else that makes us feel like outliers. So well, I plan to have conversations with so many people today, my husband, Rob and I are going to share a bit about our relationship and our experiences. And also the questions that people have asked us over the course of our relationship about us about our partners about what happens in our bedroom, about how our family deals with it all. So welcome, Rob. Hi, I'm Rob. Okay, so I want to ask you, first of all, just to give people an idea of our relationship, actually, we should just tell them, like we've been together seven years. about that. Yeah, about seven years. And we have never been monogamous together. Yeah. No, thanks. Um, which is different than how a lot of people enter non monogamy or polyamory a lot of people open an existing monogamous relationship. And we both came from previous monogamous relationships. And when we met, we were already fully decided that we did not want to be monogamous. And we're just really open with the people we were dating and about that. And so I want to ask you, what made you decide to be non monogamous? Or what made you decide not to be monogamous?
Rob 02:52
Well, I mean, as you know, growing up and just in general, I had always had this feeling that I never really fell out of love with people that I had a relationship with. So, you know, I would have ex partners that, you know, even when I was in high school that I'd separate from, for whatever reason, and I would still have, you know, a strong emotional attachment to those people. And I always just thought that it was that I had trouble moving on. But and while that may, that may have been the case, and at that time, I began to realize that no, that's not an actual, that's not actually an experience that's been unique to me. So I didn't have the words for it back then. I didn't know what polyamory was. I didn't really even know what pansexuality was, at the time. I just thought that there was no, you're, you're in a relationship and you're gay, straight, or bi. That's it. And so, as I got older, I started to learn that there were more identities and labels that people have come up with and applied to themselves. And that has existed for far longer than, you know, I had any knowledge of the community about. So for me, you know, as you mentioned, I was married for about seven years, with, you know, my practice marriage, I suppose. And, you know, I was in a monogamous relationship. And without getting into too much detail with that, I eventually decided that that wasn't the life that I wanted to lead, right. And so I separated from my ex, and, you know, started to date again. And as I was starting to date people, I started to realize that, you know, again, I would fall in love, and I would continue to fall in love with people. And I found myself in a bind, where, you know, I might be in love with somebody who, you know, lives 1000s of miles away because they had to move for whatever reason, and instead of just no longer dating, I felt that I will just move through my dating life and explain to the people that I meet that there is another person that I am still in love with, I don't see them for, you know, various amounts of reasons. And you know, but I'd still like to meet people and have a relationship and see where that leads. And to my surprise, there were people that not only understood, but were willing to go on that journey with me. So, as you mentioned, I was dating someone, a couple someone's when we met. And so I was already well into my non monogamous journey. And while I still hadn't found the word polyamory, I knew that the life that I was living was, you know, odd, but also, it felt the most authentic for me at the time. And so, when I met you, you know, we had that conversation. That was probably my first step into truly ethical non monogamy. Before I wasn't, you know, being what I would consider unethical. But also, I didn't really have the communication tools and the toolbox that I have now, right. So, you know, you and I, we started dating and, you know, going into the swing parties and all that, and started to experience the wide world of ethical non monogamy had to offer. That's my, that's my journey in a nutshell.
Ellecia 06:28
I love hearing this so much. Like, I've heard it many, many times, but I love it every time. And I so for me, it was super different. I wasn't super different, it was a little bit different. Um, because I had been married monogamously for like, 13 years. And when I got divorced, I was just like, I don't want to do that. Again, I am just not going to do monogamy again. But I had zero concept that that was a thing, like no concept. I was just like, I'm going to be a slot for the rest of my life. I'll just be honest with the people I'm dating about that, because like, that just seems fair. I had no idea that that people had like, intense, multiple love connections and relationships. And I hadn't had never heard of polyamory. Except for the only thing I had heard was on OkCupid. They, the dating website, they asked you a lot of questions. And one of the questions and that's actually where Rob and I met. But one of the questions is polyamory with a question mark? And the answer is we're, I'm into that, or no way. Or I don't know what that is. And my answer was no way. And Rob's answer was I'm into that. And so when he sent me a message on OkCupid that was the only question on there that I was like, oh, oh, no, because to me in my mind having zero experience I thought it was like polygamy with like, one man and multiple wives. And first
Rob 07:54
exposure many of us got to poly was that stupid show Sister Wives. It's toxic and it's played up for you know, the drama of it all. And, of course, they pick the worst cases that possibly could find, ratings.
Ellecia 08:12
Yes, so that was like my first foray into non monogamy was just this idea that like, I want to have sex with multiple people. I don't know what that looks like. And actually, like the first couple of years that Rob and I were together, I still wasn't sure if I was polyamorous like, I knew he definitely was. And I knew that I did not want to only have sex with one person for the rest of my life. But I was not sure if I was polyamorous. We had some growing pains. Turns out I am. What do you think? Speaking of growing pains, what do you think was our biggest challenge in the early like the first year or two?
Rob 08:56
Well, I would say our biggest challenge for me personally was continually moving through my life ethically, knowing that I had several people that I was in a relationship with, when you and I met. And so you were still having your growing pains when it comes to realizing whether or not you were polyamorous and whether or not you were okay with sharing me emotionally rather than just physically. I was well into already sharing myself with you, like you were the one being shared with. Right. And so, you know, I had several partners I mentioned, one of which was local, and one of it was, you know, still very near and dear to my heart to this day, she happens to live further away in Texas, and that relationship was still, you know, very, very strong at that time. So, you know, when you and I first started dating and, you know, I knew that you were willing to walk through all the hard stuff When you walked into my house, and I was laying on my couch getting a tattoo from a tattoo artist that happened to be a woman who brought her girlfriend, and my partner was with me with her partner who also happened to be a woman. So I'm laying on my Ottoman getting a tattoo with, you know, four other women there, and you walk into my house, and your eyes went super wide. And we had a lot of conversations following that, that whole experience and that that weekend in general, because, you know, it's, it's tough, it's tough to work through all the programming that we have around what we believe society requires of us to have a happy, healthy relationship, right? So if you're being told, but every, you know, outlet every every place that you turn, that there is one way to do this thing, and you know, in your heart that there is more than one way, but you don't really have a way to figure that out. Unless you go through it the hard way. You get lost in that whole shuffle. And the only way through it is with constant communication and constant reassurance. And so that was probably the hardest part of all of it. You know, we've, we've had difficulties along the way, but I would say that our relationship by and large has been pretty smooth sailing. I don't remember any real like, actual, like, we cannot move past this. Hard spots, you know, but any of our any of our early sticking points that we had in our relationship, they're all gone. Now. I can't think of a single one that's still around that's still kind of wonky. Yeah,
Ellecia 11:37
yeah, for sure. Yeah. Um, I think the monogamous conditioning. Totally, that was probably like the first, at least the first year, if not, the first couple of years, was the hardest thing for me. It was like I saw where I wanted to be. I knew what my goal was. And yet my body would not fucking cooperate. It was like, No, you're jealous? No, you're supposed to be the only one who's important and special. That's the only thing that means you're loved and valued. And my brain was like, No, that's not true how my body was like, but it is, and now you're gonna die. Yeah, that was definitely and I, I did, like I had this idea. Like, I knew where I wanted to be like, everything we talked about, it made so much sense to me. And it matched up with my personal values, so well. And yet, my nervous system and my experiences of being in relationship and my experiences of being feeling that I was loved, didn't match up with this thing that I was doing. Because I wasn't the only one. And I wasn't the most special, most important, best lover in the whole world, out of billions of people in the whole world, like I wanted to be the very, very best of everything, every aspect of your life, your close. Thank you. And I think a big part of that was learning to love myself the way that I wanted to be loved. Right, like to actually be the best of everything for myself. So that I felt all of that regardless of what was happening externally.
Rob 13:32
Yeah, I can see that a lot of our issues are oftentimes issues with ourselves more than their issues with our partners and what they're doing right now. Yeah, yeah. I experienced that too.
Ellecia 13:51
Um, okay. I, here's another question I have for you, where have we made the most growth individually or as the in our relationship from when to when? From seven years ago to now?
Rob 14:04
Okay, most growth? Well, seeing us how, seven years ago, we went from zero to what we are now. It's hard to say, our communication obviously, has gotten way, way better. I feel like we always had pretty good communication. Some of our attachment styles are calming down quite a bit these days. And I say that because, you know, early on, there were, you know, situations where, as you mentioned, we were worried about, you know, how our partner know, you and I were attaching to other people. You know what that what that might mean? Like, is this shiny new person going to be the one that breaks us up, right? subconsciously, we're telling ourselves in that situation, that we know that there's somebody out there that's better than us. And as soon as you find that person, we're like, we're going to be abandoned, and it takes a lot of trust in your partner to know that that isn't true, right? So for us, and sometimes it takes a lot of practice, right? So you're not going to fully trust in that sensation the first time. But if you're positively reinforced, and you take baby steps, and you're constantly going over that, that particular sticking point, eventually, it's going to get easier than so now. I feel like there's a lot more ease there. There's not a whole lot of things I feel like I would hesitate to talk to you about or that you wouldn't just, you wouldn't even bat an eye when I told you about it. At this point, though. Yeah, you know, I've probably done the majority of my exploration at this point that's going to cause any sort of a wave and what we've got going on. Yeah,
Ellecia 15:53
yeah. Oh, I love that. Yeah, I think you said practice. And I firmly, firmly believe that having experiences that feel uncomfortable, right, and then coming back together and going, Oh, that didn't break us up, or I wasn't abandoned. Like, every time that happens, you build up a lot of resiliency, and you build up a lot of trust that what you have is solid, you know, like, like you have experiences that then teach you? And yeah, I think you're right, that is where probably the biggest amount of growth has been just really being able to continue to land safely with each other. Yeah, that's true. My, I've got butterflies in my stomach now. What do you do with them? Shake them off and make juice. What are you drinking? Okay, I have another question for you. What is the most awkward or intrusive or inappropriate thing that anybody has said to you? Or asked you about our relationship? Oh, man.
Rob 17:07
So many, like, I don't know how it is. I feel like people with different bodies and different friend groups experience things differently. Right. So, you know, as a male bodied person with male friends and, you know, a particularly crass family, I get questions all the time. So at this point, you know, my, I have two people that I consider my partners, right, so there's Ellecia, and my partner, Selena, our partner, Selena. And you know, the three of us we all live together at home. And so I remember distinctly I think it was like, last year, my dad called me on my birthday. My dad, you know, you and I aren't particularly close in general. But, you know, he calls me says, hey, go, Hey, Rob, I heard that you got a you got a wife and a girlfriend? Yeah, I do dad. So how does that work? What do you mean, how's that work? Yeah, you know, like, you know, you have, you know, your wife and your girlfriend, you know, do you sleep in the same bed? You know, do you do, like, do stuff together in the same bed? You know, and like, those kinds of questions. I don't I don't want to first of all, I don't want to answer those kinds of questions from my dad, period. Right? You know, of course, that there are, you know, exciting aspects to a relationship that we have, right. But, you know, that doesn't mean I want to share it with everybody that I talked to, you know, just doesn't doesn't feel good at anybody. It happens often to you know, that people often ask about the sex aspects of it, or they just assume that no, polyamory is an excuse to have lots of sex. That is a bonus. That definitely is one of the perks of being polyamorous. I won't, you know, I do enjoy that aspect. However, that's not why you know, we do it really, for me, it's finding people that I connect with on a soul level, and I want to, you know, meet people that I can fall in love with and spend time with and actually, like, build a life and community with sex is a byproduct. But it seems like that's always the thing that people ask about, they ask about the sex and if it's okay, and if I'm cheating on my wife, or if my wife knows, that sort of thing. And it's a tricky concept for me, for people that I talk to, to even talk to them about. The terms wife and husband are almost meaningless to me at this point. And it's only because I look at them as legal terms, rather than like a partner's value to me. So a partner to me is somebody who I'm building a life with and is analogous to most people's definition of wife or husband. And so you know, when people ask me if my wife is okay with my you know, quote unquote girlfriend, Selena, I remind them that Selena, is a partner to both of us. And also there's no weighted triangle relationship here is equal lateral. And it just kind of blows people's minds until they actually see us existing together and, you know, having conversations in the same space with them, that actually starts clicking with them that, you know, their perception of what our relationship is, it's not just a giant orgy in our house all the time. It's, you know, real people living real lives, we just happen to have more than one person sleeping in our bed at once.
Ellecia 20:30
I love that. I'm okay, that made me think of two things. One, the awkward question that people ask me that I've heard the most. And two, when you talk about our triad, the first thing that came to mind is, if people will think that we were unicorn hunters, who then found our unicorn. And for people who don't know, unicorn hunters are a couple who want to add a third person to their relationship, but their relationship is still the primary relationship. And this other person is literally that adding to their relationship. And that's not at all, how our relationship formed. We actually met Selena through her husband. Yeah. And so she also has another partner, and Rob dates, other people and I date other people. And so so while we have formed this really great, solid, foundational relationship in our home, we also have other relationships that are that are very important as well. Okay, the other thing that people ask me, is... Why so nervous? I am. There's somebody looking at me. Normally, I record podcasts on zoom. So it's just like, all via video. And now Rob is sitting right in front of me watching me like blush. And look at my notes. People don't normally see me looking at my notes. Okay, so the thing that people have asked me over and over and over, especially when I'm like dating is, well, then why did you get married? Like, what's the point of being married, if you're gonna fucking date and fall in love with other people? Lots of reasons, so many reasons.
Rob 22:28
And, you know, I gotta say, frankly, I wish those reasons didn't exist. And I say that, because I wish that they were afforded to everyone. Right. So on the surface, there are reasons like better insurance ability to demonstrate more financial security to loans or better medical insurance, all sorts of financial and legal reasons to get married.
Ellecia 22:53
tax breaks. Yeah, tax breaks, right. Having somebody be able to show up in the hospital with you.
Rob 22:58
Yeah, you know, preference in legal battles, official recognition of your relationship, which is bullshit, right? Sorry, can I
Ellecia 23:07
say bullshit?
Rob 23:09
Anyway, so? Yeah, yes, there's added security to it. There's an added level of, you know, emotional security, that you can't leave me unless you want to fight me in court. But like, why would you want that for real? I don't, I genuinely don't understand it. I know that you and I, our opinions differ a little bit on this one. But for me, marriage makes sense in this community, this economy in this, you know, this country. And I wish it wasn't that way, I wish that I didn't need the government to validate my relationship for it to be real. And I wish that, you know, those tax breaks, etc. Were afforded to everyone. And I would continue to be able to work my ass off in this relationship so that I know that I'm being chosen every day and that it's not something that again, it's not it's not a relationship that's together upon the threat of a legal battle. Or I'm not vetting you half of my stuff that you're gonna love me forever. It doesn't make sense that way. Yeah,
Ellecia 24:17
yeah. I don't think our opinions vary widely on that I completely agree when I got divorced The first time I was sure I would never get married again. Because I didn't see the point and then there were lots of points but basically what it meant to me was I am choosing to have this person in my life as a essentially like a business partner, right like like we are forming a an a commercial entity or an economic entity that is going to support us through old age which felt really really important to me. I mean, as well as like the ooey gooey love stuff and being able to plan a wedding. About that House of Pain, Incorporated. Oh, okay, so the other thing that people have asked me a lot over the years is, um, why does your husband get to have a girlfriend? What about you? And this is like such a, like heteronormative patriarchal response that people have when they find out like what our relationship structure is because they just assume that here's a dude who has two women. And the women are not getting anything out of that deal, which is so not the case. Like I love Selena. She's an amazing partner. And we provide so much for each other. And Rob has a whenever anybody says that to him, like, oh, man, you're living the dream, like you got two women. And he's like, Yeah, man, and everything that comes with two women.
Rob 25:53
Yeah. And I mean, frankly, I have more than two women, right? So it's like, people, guys, specifically, underestimate the effort that it takes to have a happy, healthy relationship. I'm sure you can assume why I see many lazy guys in relationships that are being carried solely by their wives, which breaks my heart for them. But you know, if you're having a happy, healthy relationship that you're putting in all the work for, and then you multiply it by however many, whatever variable you want to multiply it by, yeah, it's a lot of work. But yes, I am very lucky. But also, there's a price tag. Emotional price tag.
Ellecia 26:38
There's some effort that goes into it. Um, okay, I have another question for you. Yeah. Is polyamory a choice? Or an identity for you?
Rob 26:52
Interesting question. Okay, so polyamory is not a choice for me, right? There's nothing that I can do. There's no possible way that I could stop being in love with more than one person at a time. Let's say that we've just decided that we're going to be monogamous. And that meant that I could no longer have sex with other people. I'm not going to just stop being in love with them right there, they're not going to be just gone for forever. Now, polyamory is not even close to choice for me. However, you know, being monogamous with a relationship is a choice. And there's a big distinction between the two. And you know, there were times where I had chosen to be monogamous with someone knowing full well that I was polyamorous. And the person that I was with knew that I knew that I was in love with someone else. But also I had dedicated myself to them to be monogamous. It didn't work out for very long, but it is a choice and it did work. You know, in the time that it was happening, monogamy and poly sexuality, they're, like my brain was the gears weren't moving. You know, mono sexuality and poly sexuality. Yes, those are choices. polyamory isn't is not a choice. It's who you are.
Ellecia 28:11
I love that. I love your answers. I wonder if there's anything else that we should cover? Oh, yeah. Okay, so another question that people ask is, do your kids know? Do you tell your kids? Oh, my God, guys, no, I don't tell kids about my sex life. But like no parents sit down and say, okay, Johnny, I want you to know that mommy and daddy are monogamous.
Rob 28:39
Yeah, so having kids in a polyamorous relationship, especially kids from previous monogamous marriages, or relationships, that can get a little bit dicey. Right. So yes, our kids know, our kids all know, and they're fully accepting of it. It's our previous partners that have an issue with it. And for whatever reason, have decided that, you know, they're going to install negative connotations to that relationship into the children, right. But for example, our kids see us being a family, you know, they, they There is no doubt in my mind that they are 100% onboard with how our family is shaped and the members of our family, right. So we have a family of choice. In our home. We have a roommate, my friend, Ryan, that I've been friends with since I was in seventh grade, who the kids didn't even bat an eye. He just lives here now. Right? Yeah, he's been living here for a couple years now. And he's just a part of the family at this point. And nobody, there's just no, there's no question in anybody's mind. Right. The kids don't know what happens behind our closed doors. But, and they have no reason to. There's no reason to have that conversation. You know, hey, hey, so and so you know, I just want you to know that I'm having sex with this person tonight. That would never happen. Conversation doesn't happen. They don't need to know. And, frankly, you know, I'm pretty private about a lot of that stuff in general. So I don't just tell even my friends about that sort of thing. They just know them in a relationship with somebody. And if I say that I love this particular person, in the presence of my friends or my children. That's something that my friends and my children have come to expect from me that I fall in love with people, and they are very close to me, and therefore eventually becomes close to the family. And that's just how it is they trust that I pick good people to introduce to our lives. And you know, you are a good example of someone that I picked. Well, you know, added to our lives.
Ellecia 30:44
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Oh, that's why I love you so much. You have such a big heart. It's lovely. Yeah, I think our kids really know that they just have a bunch of people in their lives that care for them and love them. And they basically have like a huge extended family. I mean, they have a huge extended family. Um, let's see, I think, no, I think that's it. Otherwise, we'll be talking forever. We could literally talk about relationships forever. So we're gonna wrap it up right here. Okay, and say good night, or Goodbye. Goodbye, everybody. Bye. This is great being here. Thank you.