Boundaries, Bedrooms, and Beyond, Navigating Non Monogamous Dating with Shannon Whaley

We've all heard the myths you'll never fully heal or you'll always carry those scars . But what if I told you those are just that myths . Healing and growth are not only possible , they're powerful , and reclaiming your self-worth after toxic experiences is completely within reach . Healing and growth are not only possible , they're powerful .

Reclaiming your self-worth after toxic experiences is within reach , and in today's episode , we're going to talk about how you can rebuild and empower yourself , especially within the context of non-monogamous dating .

So today I'm joined by my friend , shannon Whaley , an anti-hustle business coach who lives by the beach in Italy with her two bilingual cats , kevin and Nicolo . I think I said it right . Shannon's been coaching since 2015 , helping coaches and service providers build sustainable online businesses without burning out , and we've worked together in various ways .

She's been my business coach and I'm currently supporting her as she navigates her poly , non-monogamy journey after coming out two years ago . And so in this episode . Today , shannon's going to open up about the realities of non-monogamous dating and the role of a BDSM checklist in setting clear boundaries and fostering trust .

So we're going to talk about how practical tools can help you reclaim your power and create meaningful and healthy connections . So if you're ready for an honest conversation about healing and growth and the unexpected ways BDSM can support your journey , stay tuned . This is an episode you don't want to miss .

Please , please , please , don't forget to rate and review the podcast . If you love these conversations . It really helps us reach more people and keeps the dialogue open Super important . I will love you forever . Enjoy . I want to welcome you to Nope , we're Not Monogamous the podcast where we talk about not monogamy .

Actually , we talk about monogamy quite a bit too , just not the way you would expect . Shannon , I'm so happy you're here , me too .

And they're like I've been flirting with you for months . I'm like I don't take it personally .

And I had tried to be non-monogamous back in 2013 and I was dating multiple people and then got like roped into a monogamous relationship and I was like , fine , and then another one , and so now I am figuring out what that means and like there's .

So I mean , I came out of the closet as bi when I was 17 and didn't know about different like relationship anarchy , and I didn't know , like I didn't know any of these things . I just like didn't have access and I wasn't in the community and it was like lesbian , bi , gay , like there weren't , like all of these other , like demisexual and da da , da da .

I feel like it's eventually hopefully going to get there . I have an idea of what I want it to look like and then the more that I date and things unravel or end right Like , it just gives me more clarity of like , don't want that , Definitely want this , want more of this . So I'm just like putting one foot in front of the other at this point .

I love that I get to catch you at this stage because so many of the people I talk to are , you know , like we're are in a relationship where they were monogamous and then opened up , or we're non-monogamous but are in , like , committed while meeting people and and the I think the challenge and the fun thing that I'm loving watching you do is go okay , I have

a really solid idea of what I want , and so the people I date are gonna have to meet that .

If it was like a binary , non-binary person , I'm like , well , I guess I'm not bi anymore . Like , so now there's new terms and right . So like I'm coming out as like queer Great . I'm coming out as non-monogamous Great . And so , yeah , like this learning curve is fucking bananas .

But also like healing from a toxic marriage , and not just like one , but like multiple marriages and relationships , right , when I was not setting or holding boundaries , like I was self-abandoning , I didn't have any fucking standards , like I didn't .

Um , of course I had some standards , but like the things that are actually important to me that I like drew a line on . Now , what like weren't I did . I was like , oh , whatever they like me , I like them enough . Like , sure , Like let's do this . And then , all of a sudden , I'm in a relationship for four years . I'm like what the fuck ?

Of course there is layering on hold on there's a cat trying to get through , also layering . Of course there is Layering on the non-monogamy piece , which , uh-huh , it's tired . It's a whole bunch .

I was going to say like it's fun , like there's moments where it's fun and like it's interesting , but what I will say is like my number one value is freedom and it always has been , and so the fact that I was trying to be in monogamous relationships for my entire life . It's like what the fuck like ? What the fuck Like ?

I wish that when I was , you know , in 2013 , I wish that I would have had this podcast right , like they're just like the resources didn't really exist back then . It was like part of the kink community that like wasn't . It was those people .

I discovered that a little bit after that , I think . Um , but that that was it .

And there was one guy who was in a poly relationship or I think , more E&M from understanding but he had said he had recommended sex at dawn and then I just never I still haven't read it but that was what he had recommended . That's funny .

But I saw a lot of like what I didn't want , right , and so like I had heard about all the horror stories of oh , we opened a relationship up and then it blew our relationship up . So all I heard was that it doesn't work . Yeah , why the fuck would I try something that everyone says doesn't work ?

I mean , it sounds fun in theory , but then it's like I pick shitty people . What am I going to be in relationships with multiple shitty people , multiple shitty people ? That sounds exhausting . So I understand why I wasn't so maybe grateful that that I didn't have cause I'm like such a different person .

I've healed so much , like I've worked with you and my therapist right and like I've read and I've taken these two years to myself to just like really understand . Yeah , like time to have some boundary , like hard boundaries .

Learn how to fucking communicate , learn how to ask hard questions , stop swallowing the the words and just like say the things and so you know it . It all happens in due time . Um but trying to put what I don't know , the saying put a round peg in a square hole . Is that how you say ?

For my parents to accept me , we accept you , pick a side , Right , we don't believe in bi . So , and I was like I'm dating a woman , I guess I'm a lesbian , but I wasn't and I knew that I wasn't and so yeah , so when I married her , like I was like I can never , you know again like she was .

Why am I bi if I have to pick ?

And I was like , actually , no , it's not , it's actually aqua , but I just don't want to burn myself out on it , so smart .

And then I rebranded and so we did these softer colors and I was like , yeah , sure , and I didn't want to have like bright red hair . So I was like , sure , we'll do lilac hair smoky , so I need all of this shit for a branding shoot . And I was like , guess we're purpleing it up over here .

I was 40 , what ? 42 , I think , and yeah , I'm like . Here we go again . So it's taken .

It catapulted me into this like journey of like , if I'm going to and like I mean this is what I had like asked my husband to do , like we're going to keep triggering each other and so we can do this together and learn and grow , or we can break up and then do it with somebody else , and so that's what he chose to do ,

and I was like I'm not fucking doing this again , like I have to do this work on my own . So I have to figure out my attachment shit . I have to figure out like , what do I like , what do I not like ? What am I ? What will I never put up with again ?

Like and a lot of it too was like , not just like what were the red flags that I missed , and a lot of it , too , was like , not just like , what were the red flags that I missed , what were the red flags that I glaringly fucking saw ? And like , tied them and made a little scarf with them . I can wear this . That's a cute accessory . This is cute .

It used to be my brand colors . This goes with whatever .

Um , right , like yeah , and also like another big thing too , and like what I realized was like fitness is just a huge part of my life . I have been lifting weights and in the gym since I could drive .

That's one of the reasons why I got a job was that I could lift weights and pay for my gym membership and so , but that was never like a value of mine when dating , and so I never dated anybody who lifted weights , counted macros , did anything like that . And because I was told that other things were more important and this goes for like lots of things .

So like , oh , that's not , it's just really important of like how they treat you , or it's just more important of like if they have a good job , if they could provide for you , right , and so these things , that . And like I thought , well , yeah , I mean , it's kind of dumb .

Like we don't have to have the same hobbies , we don't have to both work out , but like it is such a big part of my life and if I would have upheld that value and that boundary and been like I don't date people who don't take care of their bodies , like I don't date people who don't take care of their bodies , like I don't date people who don't have

sporty habits or sporty activities , or I don't date people who just like , sit on the couch on the weekends Like I want to be dating , if I would have upheld that one value , I would not have dated any of the people that I dated since I was fucking 14 years old . Yep , none of them .

Maybe there's one we would go to the gym together , one From 14 to 42 . Uh-huh , and that was like . That was a big like , shake shoulders Like . And that's not even like a big , like a . I mean , that's not , that's not like a core like thing . Yeah , do you know what I'm saying ?

It just speaks to compatibility , right , if I'm , if you're spending two hours a day at the gym and , um , and your partner wants you to go do something else that pulls you away from that , then you're not taking care of yourself in the way that feels good for you because , like you want to spend time together and also you know like it starts to , it starts

to detract in little ways until , all of a sudden , your life is very different . Yeah .

And so , like you know , I dated somebody who thought I was cheating on him because I was at the gym for three hours and I was like , if you fucking worked out , you'd know what I was doing , right , like you would know , right , and and so then it's like , well , maybe , maybe I shouldn't work out so much , or like , maybe I should like cut my workout in

half Cause I don't want him to like not trust me , right . And so this is like , this is me not having boundaries . This was me like not setting , like not speaking up and being , like not having direct conversations of being like what the fuck , dude , you think I'm cheating ? Like we need to have a conversation about this .

What do I do when they don't meet that value or that requirement of mine ? Like then what ?

Like it was not a sign , it was just a coincidence . There's no signs , anyway . So it was a year , so it was a full year before I and I was like and I met him on the apps , I met him on field and I was like well , like , well , we'll just see what happens .

Right , um had no , no , and this is when I hired you Cause I was like I should have hired you before I met him , but I didn't know what was going to transpire . But I definitely hired you after the , the aftermath , because I was like what the fuck ?

I was like it does . I think it's just funny . Just stare them in the eyes and pee on their leg and they're like , oh , that needs to be discussed . Like that's like a . I was like it does . I think it's just funny . Just stare them in the eyes and pee on their leg . It was very enlightening of like there's rules , apparently for kink , Didn't know .

Rules apparently for kink , didn't know . So I was like thrust into the kink and bdsm community and was like a whole new world . Like the curtains opened and I was like what have I been missing ?

Like this whole time I was so , so upset that this whole time yes , you were , I know , and so was introduced to , yeah , like dom , sub dynamics and that sort of thing and didn't know , like , didn't realize like the safety , like emotional , mental , physical safety that was involved , Didn't realize you know about , like aftercare and consent and limits and like

getting all of this information ahead of time , which is so fun , it's so hot to have those conversations , it's like like you build up to it , Right , and so , yeah , I didn't know about , yeah , totally totally yeah , yeah , yeah , Just like a whole different way of of doing this opened up .

And so of doing this opened up , and so , yeah , I had a bit of a bad experience with um , a self-proclaimed soft Dom , Um , very lucky that I was not like hurt or injured , I was just .

You know , I had some sub drop issues I needed to deal with , which is when I came to you of under like understanding like that , the dynamic and the um , like am I going crazy , Like what is happening here , and just like you were explaining like this is totally normal and you know , here's book , here are books , here's information , and so , like , the more I

read , I was like man , I really could have gotten myself into trouble .

You're you're supposed to actually negotiate and talk about what you're okay with and what you're not okay with . And you know , do you need a safe word or will you know is like a red light , green light system going to work . Also , your emotions are going to get tied up , even if this is just a sexy thing .

Your brain is going to dump all of the hormones that it dumps when you're falling in love , because that's just how brains and bodies work . And so you're going to have all the feels , even if they're like , even if it's being created because of this structure , because of this play , and so like I feel like people .

Just they don't know that , and even just knowing that is like I'm still learning that lesson .

hiring you again . So that didn't end well .

Like I don't want just a one night stand , or like I want intimacy . Like I want you know , when I learned about like nesting partners , I was like that sounds fucking awful . I want to live by myself . Like I don't come over , hang out , like we'll have dinner and then leave , cause I love my space , right ? Um , so I've under .

Now I have like more of a vocabulary of like solo , poly and relationship anarchy and like let's design this relationship , which is going to require such a high level of emotional awareness and maturity , but also just like honesty and full transparency and all of these things that I have not been able to access in my previous relationships .

Like I've just gone with the flow . I am not a go with the flow person . Like when I go with the flow , it's like there's so much chaos inside , totally , totally , and I've really had to work with that and that's one thing that you and I worked on before . Right Was just like unhooking from the spiral and I have fearful avoidant attachment tendencies .

So I feel the shifts in the energy . I'm like a squirrel in traffic on the inside and full of anxiety in traffic on the inside and like full of anxiety , but on the outside I'm cool and calm and like fuck this guy . And so I'm really trying , but at least I don't do all the crazy shit that I used to do .

Like at least I'm not calling like a hundred times Like I've moved past that . But now like I've moved into like the avoidant piece where it's like match their energy . So like I'm really working through a lot of like no , I don't match their energy . I ask direct questions .

Yeah , yeah , yeah , I might match their energy for a little bit and be like hold on , hold on , hold on . We're not doing that anymore .

What would a securely , because it is the opposite always of what I'm doing , because it is the opposite always of what I'm doing .

You know , when someone starts pulling away , right , like I can , I pretty much know , like , how this is going to end . But if I don't speak up directly and I just kind of like let them breadcrumb me , I am self-abandoning because , like , I want to know what the fuck is happening , have your feelings changed ? What's going on here ?

And if I don't ask that question , then I am doing the old shit that I used to do and I'm not growing .

So , even though I know I'm probably going to get ghosted , even though I know that this is going to probably go this way , unless this person fully surprises me and comes back with more direct conversation , but I still have to ask that question to signal to myself and to the fucking universe , like , stop doing this to me , stop sending me these people .

But the more that I do this , right , like I'm just sending the message to myself that , like I can be direct , I can have hard conversations , I'm ready for anything that comes my way . I can handle this . Yeah , like we're trying to move into this secure .

So , like , do I want to stay fearful , avoid it , or do I want to move into , like an earned , secured attachment ? Yes , we're doing that one . So we're going to ask the fucking question , even though I know what's probably going to come .

I feel like we all , especially people socialized as women , like you're not supposed to ask what their feelings are , You're not supposed to ask what is this or what's going on , Because then then you'll be pushing them away or they'll disappear , and I'm like , well , if they can't handle that fucking good lie , if that's not a conversation they want to have let's

cut this a little sooner then .

Like I could have self abandoned and we could have prolonged whatever , and then five months in , I could be ghosted or I could be dealing with more feelings compounded , blah , blah , whatever . Like let's fucking get this over with . So like one way that I don't know , this is kind of a kink of mine .

I feel like it's like how soon can I talk about my feelings to see if they're going to , how like they're going to handle this , yeah , yeah . And so it's like

Ooh , I wonder what's going to . I wonder what they're going to do here . Oh , they went away , huh , no . Oh well , that was fun .

But also like not just like about like the limits and stuff like that , but like if you can't handle a direct conversation about your feelings , like imagine if I'm in a sub drop or if I'm in this , like freak out , you're not going to be able to hold me through that , or if we go to a club and something happens and I'm activated or whatever , you're clearly

not going to be able to manage and hold me . And so that has been my pattern of I self-abandon , I don't speak up , I don't ask for what I want , and so , surprise , surprise , I'm dating , or all of a sudden fucking married to somebody who can't hold me .

So I brag that I mean I get this over with within like three to four weeks versus like five years down the road . Yes , so I've set the process up . I'm so proud .

So you know , there's just like it's difficult , yeah , as .

Like I've , I still have yet to date multiple people at one time . Uh , huh , yeah , because I get they leave within the first month , right , like , they just like , um , it just like doesn't work out , and so , like I have yet to experience dating multiple people . I did it back in 2013 .

And when I did it , like everybody knew about each other Like I , they , I would . I was like I'm going out with so-and-so , oh I'm , I live with so-and-so , right , um , so they all knew about each other and I , it was the like , most honest I've ever been in a relationship . I was like this is so good , yeah .

It's kind of how what we're taught uncomfortable ever at all . Just be whatever they want . It's kind of how what we're taught yeah , right , and so , um , so to go , this is this is what I want . This is how I'm operating .

I'm being open and honest and happy to reassure you but , like , your feelings are yours , um , and I don't I'm not going to like change who I am . To make you feel comfortable is something that like like the conditioning that that is selfish or wrong is something that we have to like actively work together .

So thank you for the coffee , yep , and I'll see you later , yeah , so also like learning of like , what questions do I need to ask while we're on the app and then during the first date , like , what do I need ? Like , and I'm literally going to come with a list because that's just , I'm a Virgo , a neurodivergent Virgo .

I love that about you , so we're going to have a whole fucking list .

Yeah , no one of the guys I was dating he's like this just feels like an interview and I was like , well , I mean , I am kind of interviewing you , it's an interview , and I was like , well , I mean I am kind of interviewing you .

Most of them are like , yes , that sounds awesome right now because I'm horny Totally , but if my heart gets involved and I become emotionally invested in you , then maybe not so much . That's so so , so common . Like I'm into this until I'm not Right , Right .

Like I have to , like you , like we need to , so like let's go do things . Let's like what do we have in common , right , and they just I don't drink . I've been sober for almost 11 years , so that also changes the equation . We're not going to go have some wine and like get loosey goosey . There's no loosey anything . I'm like fuck it .

, and then , like this could be an ongoing thing , but that's going to take communication and honesty , and like , what are you looking for ? Like , and so none of the couple things have worked out , because it's like , um ,

I didn't like the dynamic that they had . I don't want to go into somebody's relationship and blow it up , right , so , like I don't want to be the reason , you know . And then , if , if somebody's looking , I was like if somebody is looking for a unicorn , please let the woman run the account , because he will ruin it every fucking time .

Yeah , and that's exactly what's happened . And I'm like I'm just more interested in your girl , like can you make her the admin of the account ? Because , like , I really want to get to know her . I don't .

And , of course , like he'll say some shit and I'm like this is dumb never mind , I'm good um , yeah , so like they're you know they're not uh , they're on rocky ground .

Like they're bringing someone in for like the wrong reasons , or like I don't like the dynamic of like what they're on rocky ground , like they're bringing someone in for like the wrong reasons , or like I don't like the dynamic of like what they're presenting .

Um , or yeah , just like I find more out about I mean , it's just like learning about somebody and being like I actually don't like you as a person .

So it's just a good reminder of , like I'm actually not coming over for a night , like I'm totally down to be in like a throuple or like in a right , like in a different situation , but I'm not , I'm not , I'm not your unicorn .

I have been her non-monogamy coach and she has been my business coach and I been her non-monogamy coach and she has been my business coach and , um , and I just I fucking adore you so much . Um , if okay , I have a question for you that doesn't go on the main episode . That is for the supporters of the show at patreoncom slash , not monogamous .

Go check it out , because then you'll get to hear all of the extra stuff . But so the question is what is your favorite or best sex tip ? Amazing , Amazing . Thank you so much for sharing that . Uh , this is my favorite part of doing doing this show . Awesome . Um , if people are , uh , maybe looking for , um , a business coach , how can they find you ?

Yeah , so you can just find me . You just either through the podcast and then anti-hustlebizcom .

There You're going to get exclusive access to bonus tips behind the scenes content so much more . Thanks for listening . I'll see you next time .