SUMMARY KEYWORDS
people, monogamous, polyamorous, polyamory, partner, therapist, body, feel, life, monogamy, married, relationship, person, katy, insecurities, image, point, poly, deal, big
SPEAKERS
Katy, Ellecia
Ellecia 00:00
Hey, I'm Ellecia, your non monogamous relationship coach. Welcome to the podcast where my friends and I chat about our relationships, enthusiastic non monogamy, polyamory, swinging, kink, and our lives. You'll get a candid peek into what makes it worth it to live life outside the box. And in case you're still wondering, nope, we're not monogamous.
Hey, I have to say that I genuinely don't think I know anybody who doesn't have some sort of body image issues or insecurities around their body. And today we're talking to Katy Alaniz, who is a poly friendly therapist whose focus is really on helping clients rediscover confidence, sexuality, healing from trauma, and a lot of focus on body image, eating disorder recovery, and also how all of that intersects with relationships.
Katy is a cis pansexual demisexual polyamorous woman her pronouns are she/her and she's super passionate about treating eating disorders and body image issues. And she has a badass 10 year old, a couple of cats, she loves fresh hydrangeas, and good coffee.
And I am just having like the best best best conversation with her. Not only about like her life experiences as a solo polyamorous woman, but also the lessons that she has learned and the the tools she has learned to share with her clients. And she's going to give you some great tools here for working on body image. And just a fun conversation about relationships and non monogamy in general. Enjoy.
Katy Alaniz, I am so happy to have you here. Thank you for coming to talk to me on Nope, we're not monogamous. And so the assumption is that Nope, you're also not monogamous.
Katy 02:18
You are correct on that.
Ellecia 02:21
Awesome. So I am curious, what? What form of non monogamy do you practice? What does that look like for you? Are there any labels that you use for your relationship style?
Katy 02:33
Yeah. So I personally practice solo polyamory. Um, so for those listening who maybe aren't familiar, that just means like, I kind of operate by myself in the bag of like, I don't live with partners. I don't share finances with them. Don't have kids or pets together or anything. But yeah, I currently have one partner. And he is actually married. So he spends like, half the week with me and half the week at his primary residence. But yeah, we don't like live together. He's, you know, a guest. So it works out really well, for me to kind of maintain that autonomy.
Ellecia 03:16
Ah, yeah, I think that there are a lot of really fantastic merits to solo poly. Yeah, I mean, I have, I have a long term partner that also doesn't live with us. And there's so many like facets to that relationship that you really can't have when you're nesting with someone.
Katy 03:38
It's always really interesting too, because my partner's wife, we are like, obviously metas. And she'll come over for Dungeons and Dragons at my house. And, you know, I just got through cat sitting for them. But she's even told me sometimes before that, she's like, I love you to my partner. She's like, there are some weeks that I'm just like, so maxed out, in sharing space and sharing time and sharing emotions. And so she's said that before, like in front of me where she's like, sometimes I'm really glad like that you're going to Katy's because it's like, Oh, okay. So everyone, like, gets their time alone. And I was like, that's a good way of putting it like it. You get to feed all the different parts of yourself.
Ellecia 04:22
So my husband and I, we've never been monogamous together. But up until probably a year ago, like we spent most of our time together like most married couples do. Maybe like two years ago, I guess, and his work schedule changed. And then he also started dating another partner and started spending nights away. And I swear Our relationship is so much better having like, like, at first it was like, Oh, I'm gonna miss you so much. But our relationship so much better having that time away from each other. It's like ruin together. Yeah. When we're together. It's just like, like really excellent quality connection.
Katy 04:56
Yeah, like it means more, I think. Somehow it's almost like that idea of like, if someone gets flowers every single day, like someone giving them flowers as like an anniversary gift, it's like, well, that's not special. So.
Ellecia 05:11
yeah, yeah, totally. Okay, um, what made you decide to become non monogamous to do solo poly?
Katy 05:22
So I was married previously, to my kiddos dad, and I got pregnant and married, like, before I even knew who I was. Which, as everyone knows, like, that causes problems, because eventually you change and your poor spouse is like sitting over there, like, I don't know who you are anymore. Um, and I just started, I had an incident one time. And, uh, you know, I'm sure we all have those words like, Okay, well, I wasn't really proud of that. Um, but I had an incident on a business trip where someone was like, hitting on me at a bar and buying me drinks. And I remember thinking, like, this just feels so good to have attention and like, and I'm finally felt, right. And then when I got home, I was like, I don't feel guilty for any of that. Learning and kissing and stuff that I did. I was like, shouldn't I feel guilty for that? Like, isn't that cheating? Like, I should feel bad. But I was like, oh, what does it mean that I'm not feeling bad about it. And I shared it with my husband at the time. And I was like, I think I want to start like incorporating other people into this, because I'm not getting everything that I need. And it's not your job to provide 100% of every want, need, whim, fantasy. And unfortunately, he was not into that idea. That really scared him. And we ended up going our separate ways. But yeah, that's kind of how I was like, I don't think I don't think I'm monogamous. Yeah. They're just kind of one of those life experiences that led to knowing myself a lot better.
Ellecia 06:57
You know, hearing that story just makes me want to ask like, what do you think is the thing that that causes so much fear? When someone hears that, like a monogamous person in a marriage here is like I let's like experiment or add people.
Katy 07:10
Yeah. So that's a lot of the work that I do as a therapist now is working with the you know, someone will contact me and be like, my partner wants to be polyamorous. I can't even believe that. They're asking this of me. Like, it just feels so wrong. What can you do? On the other hand, was like, I know that I'm polyamorous and they will not get on board. Like, what can you do? And that's one of the main things that I start doing is kind of unpacking if the person is willing, like, what is the fear? And if they say something like, well, then being polyamorous, I'm like, Nope, wrong answer. I'm like, that's not the fear. Like, what happens if they're polyamorous? What does that mean? And then it'll be like, well, what if like, what if they like them better? But I'm like, okay, we're getting closer. What if they like them better, this other partner better? And I was like, so we're picking up some insecurities here. And then it's like, we have to keep digging deeper into like, Okay, what about you, is unlikable in your head to where they would all of a sudden just peace out of your life? So it's really like, picking apart all the things that I think in a monogamous relationship, in my experience, it's so easy to just skip over a bunch of red flags, or orange flags or yellow flags to be like, it's probably not a big deal. I'll deal with that later, or we don't have time to unpack that. Then it's me kind of making people like in in their face be like, what's that about? Like, when you say, I could never do that. I'm sure you've heard that so many times explaining your situation. Yeah, I get that all the time. Like, good for you. I would never or like I posted something to my business page the other day on Instagram. That was like, anyone who says, Oh, I guess that's fine for you. But I'm way too jealous. To have that happen. It was like, lots of times those are people that are too jealous to even be in a monogamous relationship. So
09:06
you need to work on that. Exactly. So yeah, I think it's a lot of those deep seated insecurities of being left. Abandonment. A lot of attachment issues are usually there even in the most successful like polyamorous relationships, you know, there will be those little tinges sometimes, like, why am I feeling that way? Like, I don't get it. So yeah, lots of attachment issues, I think are at the root of people automatically saying Nope, too scary won't do it.
Ellecia 09:36
I think that in general, monogamous relationships allow for like sweeping everything under the rug. Unless it's just unless it's such a big deal that you cannot ignore it. I'll just sweep it under the rug and like, we'll just never deal with that until we're getting divorced.
Katy 09:55
Yeah, unfortunately. I mean, yeah. I actually was talking to a polyamorous client earlier today.
10:04
And she was like, why am I getting like these, like snide comments from neighbors? Like, it's just because they know like, oh, that couple down the street is open. And so they'll get kind of comments like that, like, Oh, your life must be so hard or like, you know, they'll find out like, oh, if if one of your partners isn't earning the same amount of money as you, they'll say something to her like, Well, that doesn't sound like a very good situation for you. And she's like, monogamous people in marriages, and then relationships help each other financially all the time, and no one ever approaches them. It's like, I don't think that's working well for you. Like, right. And I was like, I think, you know, so yeah, I think a lot of that stuff gets swept under the rug, because it's like, well, this is what we're supposed to do. And we have to make this work in the traditional box setting, so. I know I did. I kept overlooking, like, man, I don't think we're super compatible. We don't have a lot in common. We don't have the same values. And I was like, Nah, no, not not doing any of that.
Ellecia 11:03
We're gonna stick it out.
Katy 11:05
Yeah, you have to make it work.
Ellecia 11:06
Yeah, gotta stick it out. We'll get that metal at the end when we die. You made it.
Katy 11:13
Metal that never exists, unfortunately.
Ellecia 11:15
Yeah. So sounds like you got divorced. And then we're like, also, I'm polyamorous, like, what was the biggest challenge with that?
Katy 11:25
Yeah, I think I'm, honestly like, making peace with it in myself. Because I was always one of those people. At one point, even like, in my young 20s, which is when I got married. Um, someone even said something like, Oh, me and my fiance are open, I think was like a term that they used. And they were swingers. And they were like, and I just remember saying, that's just like organized cheating. Like, why wouldn't you just break up with the person you don't want to be with so you can be with the people you really want to be with? Like, I don't get it. But I was definitely one of those people that was like, Huh, that's weird. I don't, I don't want any part of that. And so that's difficult to like, consolidate in your brain when you're like, but that is what you are. So me, so I had to make peace with it. Um, another part was like, gaining competence to normalize it to other people and being able to be like, just out, like, out of the closet, so to speak, where it's like, I just am this different person, and I'm finding myself in lots of different ways. And it made people uncomfortable, like, people that saw me as like a very safe person as like, well, she's a wife and a mom. Like, I started coming out as being like, yeah, about to shatter a lot of those views of me. It's like, I'm queer. I'm polyamorous, like, I'm agnostic now. And I mean, people were just like, I heard all the comments that people would make behind my back. So it would eventually make its way to me, and it was a lot of like, well, that's never gonna work out for her, or
13:00
I don't know why she's doing this. Like, she's just leaving. Yeah, exactly. Or like, she's leaving such a good situation. And she's just like, sacrificing everything she believes in to be something else. And
Katy 13:13
so that's just one of those. I know, that's just one of those things, where it's like, that was probably the hardest is just kind of being like, I'm gonna have to like, stop giving a fuck I think about other people's opinions, and just try to live life as authentically as possible. And that became my motto is like authenticity.
13:32
You know, because we spend so long I think of our lives being doing that square peg in the round hole thing where it's like, I have to be this, it doesn't matter how wrong it feels. Yeah, that was probably the hardest part is being like, lets lean into it. And that's hard.
Ellecia 13:48
Yeah, I can totally relate. I was married monogamously for 13 years, had two kids had the whole, like, wife, mother image that everybody saw it.
14:00
And then I got divorced and was like, and also I will never be monogamous again. And also, I'm going to swingers parties. And like, like, there were all these things. And I was so open about it, because like, I just could not like, at that point, I could not stand to continue to try to be the person that people expected me to be. Yes, I wasn't her.
Katy 14:23
Exactly. Oh, that's a great way of putting it. Yeah. I even remember, I don't know why this stands out. But I had started changing, you know, into a lot more left leaning a lot more feminist. I found two other therapists, when we were like baby therapists, who have kind of like helped but they're still my best friends now. And they kind of helped foster that in me because I would see things that they would go out and do and all of a sudden one of them looked at me at work one day when we didn't know each other. And she was like, are you polyamorous? It's like you're, you're still married, but you
15:00
You just said you have a boyfriend. And I was like, I guess I am. And she was like, oh up top, me too, like, and I was like, Oh, thank God. I just remember, like, speaking out a lot more. And my husband at the time, I was wearing a pair of leggings one day that were like hot pink with like lightning bolts on them. And he just kind of looked at and he's like, man, when you change one thing, I guess you change everything. Like
15:24
I will never forget that because I was like, I just have like a new style, a new way of speaking a new way of standing up for myself. And I guess that's gonna make everyone uncomfortable around me. But so be it.
Ellecia 15:35
Yeah, absolutely. It's like once you step outside the box, like you can't, you can't go back in.
Katy 15:40
No, it feels too good.
Ellecia 15:43
Yeah, absolutely. I am curious, what would you say is the most, like inappropriate or awkward or intrusive things someone has asked you about? Your romantic life?
Katy 15:57
Yeah, probably. So I have one kiddo. She's like a badass 10 year old, um, probably something in that realm that people have been, like, I'll get through explaining. And they'll hear me out. And they'll be like, Yeah, but like, how does that work with you as a parent? Like, she can't be around any of that. And I was like, around what? And they continue to explain to me that it's like, this type of lifestyle is not okay for a child to like, bear witness to be around. It's gonna corrupt. You know? It was almost like that's a decision adults could make I guess. And I was like, you're viewing this like a kink? Like a sexual kink? Which it's not. And because I think a lot of people think that they equate polyamorous automatically with sex. And then they're like, and I was like, do you think we're having sex in front of children all of a sudden? So that was probably like, the most inappropriate of someone being like, you know, you can't be that way in front of your daughter. And I was like, be what way?
Ellecia 17:02
I can't love people?
Katy 17:03
I was like, I'm not doing anything more or less appropriate than what I was doing before. So I don't I was probably it.
Ellecia 17:11
yeah, yeah, I have a 10 year old and to 13 year olds. And yeah, and it's that is the thing that people ask me all the time. Like, yeah, but like, what about the kids? And I'm just like, Look, nobody sits down with their kids and goes, Okay, it's time to have the talk. Mommy and Daddy are monogamous. And that means like, nobody does that.
Katy 17:33
Exactly.
Ellecia 17:34
Like the kids know that there are healthy loving adults around who are happy to drive them places, or bring them treats or play board games with them. Yeah, that's it.
Katy 17:48
I mean, I do. I will, I guess sometimes stand up for myself. When people ask me and I'm like, it's the same m/o I would have had if I were dating monogamously. I was like, I don't bring randos home to my home that she's in. I don't have like my current partner. We've been together for about a year and a half. Now he wasn't he did not come into my home for the first three months that we were dating because I was like, I just do not want her exposed to someone and then have that person like ripped out of her life. Like I want stability for her. And I'm like, that's the same thing a lot of monogamous people do when they're dating, where they're like, it's too soon for you to meet my kid. Like, if I was like, does that make you feel better? Like I don't know what you think is going on. But that's a really good point. Like no one sits down to say, like, let me explain monogamy to you. Like, this is a groundbreaking conversation. It's almost like that point that people make where they're like, no one had to like, come out as straight. Everyone just assumes that you are like,
18:46
we don't have big talks about that.
Ellecia 18:48
Exactly. Exactly. Yeah.
18:52
Oh, I love it. Kids are fun.
18:55
So much fun.
Ellecia 18:57
Um, oh, that that makes me think of something.
19:02
Does your child have any opinions about like this? Do they know you're polyamorous? Do they have any opinions about it?
Katy 19:08
Yeah, so I had that. Talk with her. I want to say when she was eight, because her dad and I had already split up. And he and I are still on very, like, we're friends. We're great co parents. So she sees us interact all the time. But at when she was eight, I had a boyfriend and a girlfriend. And then my now partner kind of came into the scene, which I was not looking for him, but it just happened. And she was like, because she was like, Well, what if I said, Oh, I'm going out tonight? And she's like With who? And I said like my partner's name. And she goes, What about so and so like my other boyfriend? And I was like, Oh, this is a good time to have that conversation. Because you know, like kids in YouTube now. She watches so many things on there. And so she was like, Oh, I thought you were cheating. She just knows from context of shows that we watch like, cheating is really bad.
20:07
And I was like, nope. Let me explain this. So we had that talk of like, polyamorous means this. And everything is aboveboard. Everyone has like they've spoken to each other. they've met in person, like everything is on and she was like, Oh, well, that's fine. Like, yeah, no big reaction. She was like, I just, she was just wanting confirmation that I wasn't like cheating on people.
Ellecia 20:29
I just want to know that you're not you're being ethical. That's all.
Katy 20:33
Exactly.
Ellecia 20:33
It's they're so fun.
Katy 20:35
It's funny how kids are. They only have weird feelings, I think, or biases about stuff if they're taught to.
Ellecia 20:44
Totally, do you think? Or do you believe that polyamory is a choice or an identity?
Katy 20:53
That's such a rough one. I, the way that I kind of looked at it is like because now that I'm settled into it, it very much feels like an identity that I'm like, I couldn't I don't think I could be monogamous if I tried if I tried really, really hard. So it's almost like I feel like it's an identity that you grow into. Like, oh, yeah, and I don't know if that's even a thing. Um, I wish there was some type of science you know, behind it, that shows maybe it's a choice, maybe it's not. And I do know, some people like in the polyamorous community, like here in Dallas that they've even said, like I knew since I was like nine years old. Because but they grew up seeing it also, where it was like it was just very encouraged. Like, you can love who you want, there should never be any secrets or lies, or it's like, they just grew up around so much honest communication about it. And then they're like, I just knew that that's what I wanted. And I was like, Okay, cool. I did not feel that way.
21:55
And now that I look back, I Oh, I wonder because even like, sixth grade was when I decided at that young age. I was like, I'm never getting married, because I had never seen like a happy monogamous couple ever. Like, anyone's house. I went to my own house, like everyone was fighting all the time. And I remember thinking as a kid, why do people do this to themselves? Like why do people keep getting married? Because everyone seems really miserable. And I had no way to like categorize that in my head. And now that I look back, I'm almost wondering, like, was I polyamorous back then and just didn't know it until I was seeing these heavily, like argumentative, like fraught with insecurity, like monogamous relationships, and just thinking, Oh, like, looks miserable. Like, I didn't see any happy adults like being married to each other.
Katy 22:45
Yeah, that's a great question. But yeah, that's how I look at that's what I say about myself. Like, it's an identity that I grew into when I was mature enough to figure my shit out.
Ellecia 22:56
And when I got divorced, I immediately was like, I'm never going to be monogamous again. And I didn't know I had no experience or had never seen, like, I didn't know what polyamory was. I didn't know anybody who was non monogamous in any, any form. And so I just thought, Okay, well, I'll just be a slut forever. Yeah. Well, it's cool. It'll be fine. Like,
23:22
Um so like, now looking back through my whole life. I feel like and then when I tell stories about my life, like, Oh, I might have been poly all along. Yeah, it was not something that was available to me in like a social context. Right. So like,
23:40
you know, I didn't know that that was a choice I could make.
Katy 23:43
Because that's what I was talking about. Like, I didn't know that that was an option. That's why when I like made out with someone while I was married, I was like, I don't feel bad. And now I feel really bad that I don't feel back like. Yes. And I didn't know it was an option for people to be like, yeah, we just don't feel bad it like, you know, you don't have to feel miserable all the time. Like, so. Yeah, it was, that was kind of mind blowing to realize, Oh, that's an option.
Ellecia 24:07
That's amazing. Um, okay. I, I want to ask you about
24:14
your work as a therapist. Yeah. Um, your focus, if I have read right is on like, body image. Is that right?
Katy 24:25
Yeah. So body image and eating disorders. I have a lot of experience. And I've worked at like every level of care, except for hospitalization.
24:37
That's where I did like all my internship stuff was at a residential eating disorder facility. And so it's eating disorders, body image, and
24:49
the polyamory, kink, BDSM communities. And I mean, when I started my own private practice, I was like, I knew I wanted to put on there that I specialize in eating disorders because you need to have a niche like, otherwise, you're not going to get anywhere. And I was like, all throw polyamory on there too. But no one's gonna find me for that, like, no one cares about that. And I was like, especially in Texas, and I was like, well, I'll just throw it on there. And then it was just like, people would just find me and they still just continue to find me. And I was like, man, I had no idea that the need was this big for a poly friendly
Katy 25:25
therapist who wasn't. And that's what so many people came to me and said, it's like, we tried therapy twice. And we're kind of traumatized because they, it was a great therapist, but they pathologized polyamory so much towards like, Well, the reason you're anxious is because your wife is like, stepping out on you. And it's like, that's not.
25:47
That's not what's going on. And they're like, we just could not get them to understand. And they were very much like, I think y'all really need to stop this. Like it's not healthy, and you're getting worse and worse. And so yeah, I just did not know that ethical non monogamy that we had that big of a community in Texas, and that that many people were like, Please someone listen to us. And don't assume we're sick like.
Ellecia 26:09
Oh, you know, that actually like that correlation is very much like being so like this idea that Oh, you're polyamorous. That's the root of your relationship issue, or the root of your anxiety, or the root of your depression is very similar to Oh, you're bigger body, and that's the root of your health conditions.
Katy 26:26
Oh, girl Don't even Oh, I am listed on several websites as a Health at Every Size practitioner. Mm hmm. Um, and for those listening, that's a fantastic book, you should really read it Health at Every Size.
26:43
It's, it's on my list. Perfect. I run it, I run a book club that I just started. And it's open to anyone like nationwide. And it's a book club for people who live in a large body like myself. So we're slowly tackling like all these books that are showing us like, you have just as much right to exist as anyone else. And to take up space. And that's what I feel about ethical non monogamy as well. That I've had to really normalize it for a lot of people in my life, because it's like, we're allowed to be like, open and proud about this, we should be allowed to bring more than one partner to a party, we should. Like we should be able to not have our kids judged, you know, at school just because we're open about this.
Katy 27:27
So that's something it took a lot of work in myself to undo, you know, like 30 years of programming, where it's like, You should be ashamed and working on your body constantly. So don't, don't be showing any of it. Don't be
27:41
too loud. Like it was always like, I just always felt like I'm too much. Like, I'm just way too much. I take up too much space. I'm too loud. My style is too loud. Like, I'm too much of a feminist. I'm super annoying. All this, you know. And that's like, part of my passion now is helping clients be like, I'll catch that real quick. If they're like, I know, this is bothering you. I'm like, stop that right now. Like, I hear a lot about like, I'm too much. We're too weird. Like,
Ellecia 28:12
so relatable.
Katy 28:15
But yeah, it's no, that's a great correlation of like, making assumptions about people's health, whether it's in a relationship forum or a physical form. I'm like, you don't know any of the science, actually. And that's why I tell people, if I see it on a thread on Facebook, I'll just comment and be like, a lot of people here have never read Health at Every Size, and it shows. Like, y'all have no clue what you're talking about. You're just dealing from a bias. And I was like, which is fine. I used to do it to like very hard on polyamorous people, pro choice people, fat people. And I was like, I am fat. But still growing up. I was just like, there's something very wrong with that person and with me, so I know.
29:01
Yeah, yeah, it hurts your heart. Absolutely. Yeah. So we had to reprogram.
Ellecia 29:07
So much reprogramming, I was I was telling one of my partners the other day that I was going to be talking to you and they said, they were kind of blown away. They were like, this person deals with some of the most prolific insecurities in existence. Oh, like, That's huge. Like, like, those two things are so huge, because like we do we grow up in this society that tells us that our value lies in being wholesome. Being, you know, like having having a virginity like qualities until we're married, and having a small fit body that is attractive enough to be on TV or in a magazine. And our whole lives were taught that like that's where our value lies. Absolutely. And then we grow up and go, Well, fuck, I'm never going to be that. So
29:59
Now what?
Katy 30:01
Exactly. And it's, I mean, it's a thiness and like again living inside that box of like, you need to be monogamous, like have three kids take those perfect family photos, like get to the gym, have a job that's very fulfilling for you, go to church like cook dinner, all of that is the norm and to exist outside of it is very much alienating, like very lonely. And that is worth attached to it. So I even have, I've even had like, people who identify as male, like, come to me as clients and be like, my wife or my partner, my girlfriend is so like perfect looking to me. And they'll even sometimes describe like very fit, like hair and makeup always done nails pedicures, and she has like bad body image days. What is that even about? And I was like, it's because as women, our worth is tied to what the appearance looks like and how good you can make it look on the outside. So I was like she could be struggling with depression. She may be feeling bloated today. I don't know. But I was like even the most quote unquote perfect people have bad body image days because we're taught to have them.
Ellecia 31:18
Yeah, I mean, yeah. Oh, I wonder if if this is something that you see often, for me personally, becoming non monogamous, actually, like, quantum leaped. My body image, my sense of my own attractiveness, oooh, like, big time, because all of the sudden, there were there were all of these people who were like, Oh, fuck, Ellecia, you are smoking hot. I was like, I'm a 35 year old mom with a big body like, Oh, yay. And then they kept saying that, and I was like, Oh, actually, maybe that's true. And then I went to swingers clubs and saw all of these women who none of them look like a model. And they were all beautiful. And I was like, Oh, shit, like, I just look like a woman. Like this is actually normal.
Katy 32:03
It is so cathartic and healing. And I'm so glad you had that experience. When I was dating a couple back in the day. And that's when I had kind of like, first come out of my marriage. So they were kind of my intro into poly, which wasn't the healthiest, but now I know that.
32:24
But at one point, they were like, Hey, we want to go to velvet curtain, which is a swingers club in Dallas. And I was like, Hmmm,
32:32
no judgment on what goes on there. But like, I looked at the website, and it was just like, all these pictures, not of the actual club, but you know, just like those stylized pictures of like, it was like a Victoria's Secret party, you know? And I remember my boyfriend being like, Hey, we're gonna go like, Do you want to come with us? And I was like, No, like, I do not. And he was like, why?
32:53
And at that time, like years ago, I was really struggling with body image. And I was like, so you want me to go into a space? Where skinny pretty people are walking around naked. I was like, I'm gonna feel like shit about myself all night long, and I'm not gonna have a good time. Like, why would you ever think I'd want to go to that he was like, I don't know how to promise this. And he's like, but I promise you, you will be one of the most attractive people there. So I wore what I felt was like a sexy outfit and went, and sure enough, it's exactly like you said, like,
33:25
at one point, a larger woman wearing only a fishnet bodysuit, walked up to me and was like, I love your outfit. And I got like, four compliments from people that night being like this. I like all of this. And I was like, really? Like, this is it? This is attractive. Um, but that's why I love also about the polyamorous community, I think since I think since we're not limited to one partner. There's almost like this more experimentalists, nature that can take over with people. Because I do look at people sometimes. And I'm like, there's a, there's a societal pressure on the other side, too. And we see it all the time in like, Guys, movies, you know, where it's like, they are judging each other based on what their girlfriends look like, or their wives. And I'm like, there's a lot of pressure to get like that good fit, pretty girl. And it's very derogatory, you know, languages toward larger bodied people where it's like, I'll be your wing man, even if it means that I have to like sleep with the chubby girl. Like, I'll help you sleep with the hot one, you know.
Ellecia 34:39
Even if that's what they want. Yeah.
Katy 34:43
There's so much pressure. I even hear from friends in the lifestyle that like their 13 year old son has been like, yeah, I think like, bigger girls are like really cute. Like, I would never say that out loud. Like, oh, yeah, it's just that pressure.
35:00
So I look at that, and I'm like, man, I would hate to be under that much pressure as a boy growing up in America. And I was like, but with polyamory, it's not like, Well, I hope you get a really hot one, because that's the only one you're gonna get. I'm like, that's not what we have to deal with. It's like, man, maybe we, as polyamorous people get to more say, like, what is it about you that makes you tick? Because I already have people that I'm attracted to. So that's not what I'm coming after you for I want to know, like, like, I'm chatting with one guy on an app right now. And I'm learning we have almost the exact same taste in movies where it's like, the matrix and fight club and get out are like top three for both of us. And I was like, Oh my god, do you like horror movies? And he's like, I love and I'm like, no one in my life, like no partners of mine really love horror movies, and stuff like that. That are that's attractive. Now. It's not like, Oh, I had to find that one. Perfect physical specimen, because I had to be attracted to that for the rest of my life. Like, we don't have that pressure, which I love.
Ellecia 35:59
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. We get to like, choose quality people for who they are, like, who and they'll, and they show up more authentically than Yeah, they may have at another point in life.
Katy 36:12
Yeah, I think we see that with. I know, even like my own dad, like when he and my mom split up after so many years, like, I kept telling him, I was like, you're getting really picky, like with these women? Because he would say something like, yeah, this person is like a really good girlfriend, like, has her own money, shows up on time does what I want to do and what she wants to do, like, independent like, but also likes to hang back.
36:41
And then he would say something like, she's just not as like attractive as this other one. And I was like, that's what a lot of these people out there I think are looking for is like, how many boxes can you tick because it has to be a lot of them. And that's what I love about polyamory one, like you don't have to take 50 boxes, you need to take up like a lot of them. But you don't have to be like this ideal of a perfect person, because it's my one shot to get it right.
Ellecia 37:05
Let me ask you, if my listeners were to ask for one piece of free advice, like what's one thing anyone can do for free to have better body image?
Katy 37:17
I would say, to start seeking body neutrality. So the body positivity movement happened. And that's great. What that did for a lot of people who struggle with like disordered eating, eating disorders, like body hatred, body dysmorphia, is that it just gave them another ideal to have to obtain, and they're like, now I'm supposed to hit this ideal of like loving my body and appreciating everything that it does. Now, that's a different type of pressure. And I would look at the body positivity as would be like, Yeah, but I still don't look like that. Right? Sure. She can like a plus size model with no extra cellulite. And there's still kind of tone. I was like, that's like the acceptable version of fat. And now you're calling it body positivity, which, again, that's way better than what we were doing before. Body neutrality says, I don't have to love my body today. But can I just accept that it is instead of can you be on the spectrum somewhere? Here, instead of being all the way at the bottom of it, where you're saying, like, I hate my arms today, my thighs are huge. I hate my butt. Like, can you just reach a point of body neutrality. So something I'll do with clients is have them like look in a mirror. This is super hard, but to look in the mirror, like toe to head, and we'll go up from the toes to the head and list everything that they don't like,
38:50
like every body part that you can think of. And then we're going to go back down the same way. And can you say either something positive or neutral statement. So I know one time I had to do this in therapy, and I got to my arm, I was able to say like, okay, belly, you know, lots of hatred, but I am thankful that it was able to like birth my daughter and like hold space for her. And I was like, fine, if I have to pick something, that'll be it. We got to my arms. And I seriously could not think of anything positive. And she was like, maybe like your arms are strong, and they help you lift things and hold things. And I was like, Yes, skinny arms do that, too. So you are not this is not helping.
39:31
And so then I just had to say My arms are like I have arms and then move on. And what that does, it seems so silly or insignificant, but it slowly starts to rewire that messaging in the brain that says as soon as I look at that body part in the mirror, I have to hate it. Like we have to come up with something negative.
Katy 39:50
It starts rewriting those patterns and those synapses in the brain to start saying like, I have arms. Alright, let's move on today. It just is
Ellecia 40:00
And eventually.
Katy 40:03
And I always tell people don't expect that to happen overnight. Like, I spent 30 years learning a language in my head. And then when someone's like, body positivity I was like, so I could all you may as well just have to speak Japanese overnight. Like, we cannot learn a new language that quickly. Please be patient with yourself. Do those exercises in the mirror where it's like, list everything bad, give your brain time to air that out, and then go back down and just say something neutral. Like, I have a chin. Or if you can eventually say something good, great. Otherwise, body neutrality would be like that piece of free advice where I'm like, you will start rewrite rewiring the brain. So it's doing more than it feels like you're doing.
Ellecia 40:47
Yes, I love that so much. I the other day, I made a post on social media about like self love, right. But it's such a cliche term that is, it feels like this really foreign concept that like do people actually even have that, right? Yeah. I actually felt it. And then I was like, Oh, I see. And, and so I wrote about that a little bit. And someone had commented, like, I can't even like I can't even conceptualize what that would look like. And so I kind of said the same thing. Like, can you can you get to neutral? Can you get to like, where you aren't feeling self hatred. You aren't feeling shame or judgment about yourself, but you just you are you accept yourself exactly where you're at right now. And it doesn't have to be loved. But like, just swing the pendulum a little bit in the other direction. Yeah, cuz you have to get there before you can start going higher.
Katy 41:40
See and that all or nothing thinking in the brain kills us every time. Where it's just like, well, I can't love my body today. So I guess that's it for me. I'm just gonna be stuck in self hatred forever. Because it's just all or nothing black or white. And I always explain to people it's a kind of a cliche example. But it usually gets the point home where I'm like, have you ever dropped your phone, like on the sidewalk? And I'm like, they're like, yeah, and I'm like, cool. Everyone has I still do that all the time. It just flies out your hand. And I was like, when you notice, oh, shit, I dropped my phone. Do you then walk over to it and stamp on it with your heel a few times just to make sure it's broken.
42:22
And they're like, no, why would I do that? And I was like, that's exactly what all or nothing thinking is where it's like, well, I don't like my body so let's just drive home the hatred as hard as I can today. Like, I'm like, stop doing that. I was like, you're doing the heel strike to the bone thing. And you're damaging something that didn't need to be damaged. Let it fall. Maybe it gets cracked. We have to go fix that. And I was like, don't break it more. I was like, No one does that.
Ellecia 42:46
I love that analogy so much. I've never thought of that. That is that's brilliant.
Katy 42:52
I love analogies, stories. All that.
Ellecia 42:56
Yeah, totally, totally. Let's see, is there anything? Is there anything else that you would want to tell my listeners? I think to
Katy 43:07
if it is feasible, I know it's not always possible for everyone to be like getting mental health care, you know, at all the times. But just to reach out, like it may not feel like something's wrong right now. But I've never met. I've even met with like healthy triads, healthy quads, you know, healthy monogamous couples. And they're like, nothing is like a crisis right now. But we need to start working on stuff. So nothing is a crisis. And that is one of the most refreshing things to me, because a lot of times people come to me 20 years in, and I'm like, I can't undo 20 or 19 years worth of resentment of the thing I can't do when you already kind of like hate someone or have that huge bias in your head. I was like, I can't fix that for you.
43:52
So I always encourage people like, why don't you try seeing a therapist when nothing is a crisis? That is not what is required. You don't have to be in crisis to go see a therapist. Yeah, that's my biggest and like sites like poly friendly.org. That's where I'm listed. And you can find someone in your own state who is a licensed professional. They have like chiropractors on their therapists, doctors, and it's just people that other people have listed thing I felt really comfortable. I felt seen and heard. Just reach out for help. There's more people like you than you can imagine. Like you are not alone.
44:29
Like, even if it's group therapy, just to be able to find like minded people, do it.
Ellecia 44:34
Yeah. And love that so much. I do. I completely agree. It's like doing maintenance on a car. You know? Yeah, your car's broke down on the side of the road. Yeah, exactly. Your oil changed. Yeah.
Katy 44:45
Yeah. So that we don't have to deal with that later on.
Ellecia 44:47
Yeah, totally. Um, where can people find you?
Katy 44:53
So my practice name is called the Wakeful state as in like the state of being awake. Um, So just the wakeful state calm on Instagram at the weighty therapist like weight as in your bodyweight.
Ellecia 45:10
I'm such a fan of puns.
45:14
I was like weighty material I deal with all the time. I was like, I'm the weighty therapist, because I'm also fat. We like this.
45:22
Yeah, Facebook, the wakeful state. And I love getting emails, you know, I always tell people to text and email me. So all that contact stuff is on my website, like the group therapy too, I think is really nice if you are struggling with any type of body image. And that's a lot of times more accessible for people because it's like $50 every other week. So it's, you know,
45:49
not as big of, like a commitment.
Ellecia 45:51
Oh, and where, where can people find your book club?
Katy 45:56
That's on my website too.
Ellecia 45:57
Perfect. Oh, yeah. We're starting to put all the links in the show notes. So yeah, it'll all be there.
Katy 46:03
And then also Instagram and people follow me on Instagram. All the links are there
46:08
to like the upcoming book club sessions and all of that goodness.
Ellecia 46:12
Okay. Nope, that's awesome. Thank you so much for chatting with me. This has been super fun. This was super fun.