Why does Dasani water taste like that?

I'm Manny, I'm Noah.

This is Devon and this is no such thing.

The show where we settle our dumb arguments and yours by actually doing the research. On today's episode, why does the Sonny water taste like that?

I could not believe that a company like Coca Cola believes conspiracy theorists. Quite interesting.

No, there's no no such thing, no such thing, such thing.

All right, show of hands, vocally, who here identifies as a real water drinker.

I drink a lot. My hands raised, Yeah, my hands raised.

Devin and Noah are water drinkers. I'm look, I'm I've gotten I'm way better than I used to be. I used to not drink any water, and now I realize how insane that is.

That's crazy.

But probably when I first moved to New York, like twenty fifteen, I would be getting my from like juices or you know, just was not drinking water by itself.

Oh, I drink a lot of water. If I'm not drinking water, I'm drinking tea.

Yeah.

So those are my two drink options.

And usually at the same time.

Yeah, I'll double fist it, you know, I get a I get a cup of tea. Get a cup of tea, get a cup of water. I get harassed at the dentist, you know.

Yeah, well they always tell you need the water.

I'm a coffee guy.

Drink I'm like, okay, I got it. Yeah, I drink a lot of water.

And growing up.

Water, No, growing up, it was a little bit different. Okay, so back in my house, like growing up, we didn't have like water in the fridge. It was like soda and juice.

Yeah.

I feel like middle school, high school we started introducing bottle of water, but it was still, you know, half the time, you're still drinking soda or juice. I think I transitioned to full on water college post college, because you're just like, it's too damn expensive to be buying juice and soda. Like I just like, it's you know, so you get the bread in a refrigerator, yep, and

I mean, we never had soda in the house really, so water was basically especially for you know, dinner, meal time, you're gonna have water with it. Like otherwise it would be you know, a juice in the morning, that sort of thing.

We'd have milk.

Yeah, you were one of those have milk.

But yeah, I mean for most of what I can think of is glasses of water.

These days, I'm way better at drinking water. A few years ago, actually, when we were all at BI, I went to the doctor and like something was up and they were like, you need to drink way more water. So then I bought on Amazon, like one of those like sixty four ounce yeah water bottles, and it's got like the time, like you need to drink this much by noon, and it just made me feel like a baby. But yeah, I'm way better today.

Yeah, I mean it's definitely exploded in the past few years, water bottles, that.

Sort of thing. Oh my god.

And we both have ours right now.

But we're not I don't think we're on the extreme end of it. Like there's people, like you said, there's those huge ones or like I think there's people who probably drink too much water, like more than necessary?

Is there too much?

Yeah, yeah, babies can't have water. Crazy, But did not well you know.

Who else didn't know that. My mom didn't know that because when I told you, she said, well fed more important.

Like what you and even for even for adults, you can drink too much. All right, let's let's smooth forward a little bit. Bottled waters. You're going into pharmacy of your choice, Walgreens, Dwane Reid c CV.

What are you what are you looking for?

Number one? So I'm not First of all, I'm not a spend one hundred dollars on a water bottles, So I'm not getting any of those vans and all that stuff. That's that's out of the market for me.

You're going for the every man.

I'm going for every man. It's water. What are we doing here?

Yeah?

Okay, it just needs to taste okay, mm hmmm. I think the best tasting budget water is poland spring.

Yes, I agree, Number one, spring Man.

All right, finish the reci your ring and then I've got some questions.

Okay, yeah. Number two. Number two is like, uh, you know, we could do like a deer Park water solid an aquafina.

I don't think I've ever had deer Park.

It stands out less branding wise.

It kind of looks like spring. Yeah. Okay, so that you know those are like in the middle Deer Park with some other like mid tier or budget waters.

There's a crystal geezer.

Yeah, that's a lot of them are generic feeling. Yeah, yeah, there's like another. There's a few others like that.

Is it great geezer or geyser geyser crystal old man, we can cut that out. I was genuinely curious. I was like, wait, what We'll see there's a.

Yeah, and then okay, so that's in the middle, and then there's a very long distance, a very long distance, and then at the very very bottom it's then yeah, wow, this sign if I'm getting this SANI, there's no other water.

Event, but I'm going store brand over that. Yes, yes, I mean yeah, I mean I haven't had the SNI in years.

It has to be the only option sometimes when you go to like a sporting event or something. Oh yeah, that's the only option, and so you can't do anything about it. But yeah, yeah, if I have to pick, it's like I said, poem spring number one, all the other ones in the middle, number two, and then very worst case scenario, worst case scenario I'm getting.

I mean, I I've even had I've gone to a vending machine. See it's only dashani, and I'm just like, I'll get a soda, yeah, wow, something else, you know, a sporting event, like you know, I was gonna be good. I was gonna you know, not drink. But they're forcing me to buy an eighteen dollars beer now.

Is because the only offering is soon now.

They're making me an alcoholic.

And it's their fall.

Sni is the reason why my dad never came back. So I've heard this so much that people hate Dasani.

You know.

Part of me is like I can I can easily imagine that these waters have different tastes. I do wonder where the hell is the like the hate like like Sani is like disgusting or like.

Yeah, it don't taste good to me.

And this is like the fact that it stands out.

That's the thing.

I kind of privately or personally came to this, yes, and then I found out other people feel this way, so that proves to me it's real and not just like, oh, I didn't just see something like someone said, oh, Desny's like cheap water or taste bad. And then I was influenced, which, of course I can get influence by things, but no, like I decided on my own, I don't like the sony and then other people like Devin and the world.

Yes, yeah, And I guess it's fair too because you guys grew up as water drinkers.

Yes, as I'm maybe not.

Exactly you know you ready, Yeah, you know, conversation happening about I'm to the differences. Yeah, It's just always been a thing for me where I'm like this, yeah, it tastes off, And like Noah was saying, I've been thinking about this since I was a kid when I couldn't you know, It's not like when you're a kid somebody hands you water. It's like water is water. You're not like, oh, this water tastes Yeah. I was just like, why is this water tastes weird?

And it's not refreshing the same way.

No, when I drink water, I wanted to be refreshing and I don't really want to notice it.

For whatever reason, Desianni just never felt as thirst quenching the same way. Yeah, so it wasn't you know, in my mind, it's just not as satisfying to drink. So it's like I should just get juice or something else.

I know, you ranked them already, but I'm so fascinated by Like, all right, can you describe the difference between Aquafina and Poland Spring.

M I think Poland Spring to me is the most refreshing, Like I just have you know, when I think of a Poland Spring, it's like a cold bottle of water and a fridge. It's summer, you coming inside, and I don't even think about when they change the water bottles.

That was that was huge, So that's something.

Yeah, the water bottle shape is interesting because it's it's dumb. Obviously that that impacts how we taste it. But yeah, it's true because Desani has the thin, narrow bottle, which is kind of cool, Like I have to give respect to what they're trying to do something different there.

It's like a sexy bottle.

Yeah, slim, slim, thick sort of thing. Yeah, but it I think maybe because that it's almost like then my expectations are too high and I'm disappointed because here's a sleek, cool, modern bottle. And yeah, the taste is yeah, it's not ancient tasting and not a good way.

Yeah, because Poland Spring, well remember when they started using less plastic.

What about now? The caps are smaller. Yeah, they used to have something that pisses me off.

You used to have some weight to them. You pick up a bottle of water, squeeze it a little bit and it wouldn't give now you knowing.

Yeah, you drink some water that's barely there.

It's like, what is this?

Yeah, can hold it in? Yeah, I got it.

So it's Poland Spring, I think one say the name Poland Spring, yes, spring, Yes, this is real natural water it Yeah, beautiful artwork.

I'm from.

I'm from New England, so you know, it kind of takes me back. It's like, oh, yeah, this this tastes like home to me. Yeah, you know, this is where I'm from. So we're not alone on the dasagny thing. As I said before, But this was new to me when I started looking into this for the episode, because, like I said, I haven't had a design years. I swore off it and I knew that wasn't for me, So I was like, I'm not checking out for any updates on Thesani. But there's a lot of theories running

No way, come on, Yeah, we.

Got the Soni.

Now that Sony has magnesium sulfate and potassium chloride, But that's not even the worst part, because the Sani also has salt as design to.

Make your mouth dry.

And this is why every fast food restaurant sells to Sony, because if your mouth gets dry, you're just gonna buy another one, which makes the Sani in that restaurant more money.

Y'all stay conscious?

Who is that from info Wars.

It's like kind of a prevailed that's kind of the prevailing theory on write it and TikTok And but then why would you.

That works against it though, because then you're you're a whole it's a bad product. Yeah, if that's the whole thing that you're doing, then you're saying that people are going to drink my product, not be satisfied by my product, and hopefully buy more of my.

Product, especially when it's like waters in most cases there's options.

Yes, why would you make it so that, like if there was a water monopoly, I could.

See, yes, exactly right, Yeah, But did you guys know that last year in twenty twenty four, Coca Cola to Sony's parent company, changed to the Sony formula. So do SONI today is different than what we used to have.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. And this is going back to the earlier point. This is the biggest difference between the Sani. I would say Aquafina is in this camp as well and the other waters. If you told me Poland spring had a formula, I smack you in your face. What you means a formula. This is a spring, this comes from This is God's work. What are you talking about?

That is a good question. What is a water formula?

Formula?

Right?

But they're just like preserved Sani and Aquafina.

They both have a like y'all did something in the lab to this. I don't think it's so, but it tastes like a soda company made water.

All right. Well, I'm not a water expert. I'm simply a fan. So after the break, we're gonna find out.

I'm gonna talk to some water experts, all.

Right, and we're back.

So I spoke to two water experts to get some intel on the Desni problem.

My name is Johnny.

Johnny Poujol started a company called tap Score about a little less than ten years ago, and we decided we wanted to make it really easy for people to test their drinking water at home.

Johnny describes his company tap Score as the twenty three and meters of drinking water. So obviously their focus isn't on bottled water. It's more like you know your tap and water health and safety in that way.

And here's my second expert.

Hello, my name is Martin Reason. I'm your personal water somebody. Yes, I drink water professionally, and I like to hydrate people and bring water effects to people and like to debunk a lot of water mysteries.

So that's Marian and the s is a water samelier.

I wasn't expecting that accent. That's beautiful.

So I asked these gentlemen to lay out what factors impact water taste, and as you can guess, it's a lot of different things.

When you look at water quality and the taste and smells, it's broken down into things like salts and minerals. Dissolved gases like CO two obviously has a big influence, but oxygen can have an influence. You've got organic properties of the water or carbon hydrogen bonds in the water. Pulvic acids and humic acids are a major component there. You really shouldn't have a lot of microbial tastes and odors in bobbled water, but it does happen, especially with untreated waters.

And then you got things like more general properties like TVs and pH.

Anyway, long story short, there's like different components to both the smell and taste wheel of bottled water, bloss of utility.

Water, drinking water, well water in general, and drilling down into just bottled water.

So not all bottled water are created equally one water brands. They're coming from other nature like spring waters and mineral waters. That means these waters getting their unique taste profiled due to nature. Was water's universal solvent, it will pour minerality out of the soil layers. On the other hand, you have water brands when it's called purified water or distilled water vapor distilled waters. These are water brands to most

Devon's making a very concerned and confused face. Let me simplify that a little bit and kind of reiterate. So there's basically two kind of groups we can break these into. So there's like spring in mineral waters, where the bottlers take the water from a natural spring or other source and basically just filter out enough to clean the water to make sure there's not any you know, bacteria or other dir other things in there, but keep all the

To build that flavor profile.

So what you guys were saying earlier before the break, we're talking about formulas. There are formulas, and they're trying to build taste. Because if you just had distilled water, which they say well for you know things, but we don't really drink it, would I don't think it would like linger in your mouth at all and probably wouldn't be very thirst quenching.

Mm Okay, I do see this thing like half the products I use at home, like you should put the you should use to steal the water with. Yeah, I'm like, I'm just gonna put the water from the tap. It's crazy to me to think about. I guess this makes sense, but like I'm buying bottled water, which is you're taking water from the tap and then putting it in a bottle and then selling it to me. It makes sense. It's just weird to think of, like you know, Coca Cola being like turn on the tap and the same

Yeah, yeah, that's what I thought too. So some examples eavy on Fiji and our goat pull and spring. Those are the former, so those are natural spring mineral waters, and then aquafine assentia and of course DESIGNI.

They're the latter. So those are you know, lab design.

They're starting basically, you're starting at the top or you're starting at the bottom and then finding your middle ground somewhere.

I'm kind of surprised by the fact that these companies are taking not just taking tap water, but purifying it and then trying to make it taste like anything specific, trying to design the tastes. That's kind of mind belonged to me.

Yeah, imagine being a water taste tester.

Yeah, oh my god.

You know, some people can't even tell the difference between coke and PEPSI. Now, these people in the labs are changing like the tiniest Yeah, you.

Know, crazy.

Before we get into kind of more about taste and flavor, I'm to zoom out a bit. Humans aren't the best tasters, and our taste receptors are changing all the time.

Like long term, it's like why.

Kids like sweets and then as you grow up you develop more of a taste for different flavor is like you might like vegetables now that you didn't before.

Throw back to our recent episode on picky eating.

Yeah, and even like on a short term timeline, Martin said, like every ten days, our taste receptors are new. But then also I think things like what you ate today is going to impact how you things taste to you, like water other things, especially because water is taking, pulling everything and then breaking it up is how these guys describe it.

Just to kind of reiterate your guys's thoughts that I've that I didn't understand at the beginning of this episode, there are discernible distinguishable tastes from bottle to bottle, from brand to brand.

Yeah, I think, so we'll do a taste test later with different types. But yeah, I think I think it is the sort of thing where there's enough of a difference where not dramatically, and I don't think most people are gonna have very strong reactions except for maybe something like a desagni yes, right, but I think that's also like you get used to it. So actually, this next bit I want to play for Martin kind of goes into that a little bit, talking about difference between taste and flavor.

So first of all, we don't have the golden palette because it's changing all the time. Second, taste and flavor. Taste is what I just told you, what I can actually taste. But we do hear this all the time. Oh I love this red wine. The strawberry raspberry liquish effects. Yeah, there's no strawberry or raspbery in bed. That's the flavor of a wine. The flavor is connected with my nose, and we all know when I'm sick and my nose

Basic ideas that taste is like the constant, but flavor depends on what's going on.

Also the way it intersects with smell too, and other factors.

So, which is interesting because most water does smell like anything.

Yeah so but yeah, so like if you're smelling something else around it, I guess or you know, or like I think this is where something like the metal can versus like he says, a paper cup versus glass. Yeah, or factor.

If I just got done playing soccer, you know whatever water I drink is going to be incredible because I neat my body, Yeah, versus the same water the next day, maybe it won't be as good.

All right, So I didn't want to waste these guys time. These are important water experts.

I think I'll get back to talking about water so much.

So I had to know why Desndy got such a bad rap.

Hmm, I said, straight up, just tell me, do they really add salt to their water?

Oh?

And the short.

Answer is yes.

Oh, but it's not so simple.

Yeah, there's a lot of misconception on salt because we're all comfortable familiar with using sodium table salt, right, But you can have salts of all different types. You can have potassium salts and they'll taste different than sodium salt's table salt, and so it will still have many the same properties of a salt. It's rapid dissociation, but it will taste differently. So when we talk about salts, we should, in any better world, all be somehow you know, remember

And now let's come to the fact that minerals are salts and salts are electrolytes. So somehow, and I don't know why people getting a little confused about that, because the same people who are hating Dazani, well they're adding the salt to make your thirst year will buy smart Water, Well, they're adding electro lights. Sodium is an electro light. That is what it's in Dazagni. The TTS that means total the soft sort of the overall millicomposition is even the

So it's like the conspiracy theorists were right, like on accident.

Yeah, they're right in the sense that Thesani did have what we would call table saw in their formula, but that wasn't unusual.

It's funny the idea of conspiracy theorists being right on accident, like if you thought, if you thought like the CIA killed JFK. But it turns out it was like a guy named like Chris Ian Alexander Year.

After all of these salt theories and backlash, Desani did change their formula, like I said, and their label now proudly says now without salt asterisk as the old version did have. You could look at the ingredients and it said, you know, it's all these everythings and it had salt on it.

That is the funniest, like corporate ready to say something now without salt ash.

So then mariin the water some of the a he has some critiques of this new DESIGNI.

What I think my theory is actually the wrong way. It's the other way around. They need to add more salt to make the water actually tastey good. It's the same like you cook in your soup. No salt in your soup not good taste. Too much salt not good taste. You need to find a sweet spot. So the Dazagni problem is what everybody thinking they're getting thirstier for this dry mouth field. So you drink Dazani and you have this dry mouthfield on your palate, and you think, like

So he thinks the Sanni is even worse now with the new formula. He told me he reached out to Coca Cola to discuss the new formula, but they said it's a trade secret.

They told me it's a secret. It's like a secret. A recipe in water is a secret. Dazani is as like it's like short Knox, I need to like, really, you're not allowed to be on the same plane. Who knows the formulation of darzani? Really that's not a flex. I'm sorry, I was laughing. I was like, I cannot believe you guys telling me this. I like, this is this is completely insane. Light Now like everybody with like a with's like an easy like an easy let can

Be honest, that is it is hilarious concept of like who, like what would I do if I did know the recipe with you?

So luckily for us, Johnny's company, tap Score ran an analysis of the new Desaanni and here's what they found. So compared to the old version, the pH chloride and potassium levels went up, while the sodium went down. So while they did add salt with the potassium, which is also an electrolyte, they cut the sodium to fix the table saw issue from the conspiracy theorists, and higher pH levels may also make for a smoother taste. That's basically where we're at now.

So Martin's criticism is like, hey, you guys are letting the you know, the Reddit public perception of your brand dictate what you're doing with your formula versus just trying to make the thing taste as good as possible. In being like, Reddit's not going to decide what this thing tastes like.

Yeah, that seems to be his main contention, where it's like, the issue isn't that there's salt in the water, It's about finding the right balance with other flavors or other factors that can make it make it taste better.

I agree, but I also disagree. I think part of the issue is that it's a little too late that the SNY is trying to do something, so everyone has a preconceived notion of like the SANI sucks, so like they need to change something. And if we think it's you know, where our mouths are dry, If we think it has less salt, then maybe that's better, even if that's not actually the case.

Yeah.

The issue now is just, yeah, there's just a public perception of them, and they're just gonna do whatever they need to change the public perception, even if that's not actually making it taste better.

Yeah, because like I mean, like I said, I haven't touched with Sonny in years. I didn't know about this formula change, and in my head it wasn't a saltiness. Though maybe if I had done a real close tasting of it, I would have thought that. So then if I had that on my head and I saw the new thing that says no slaw added asterisk, yeah, maybe I'd give it a shot.

Yeah, I'm thinking as a marketing guy, if I had to signal to somebody that this water is different, you have to put new formula on a bottle of water, because then you're like, what form Yeah right, it's like we took out the salt. That's one thing, but like new formula.

Yeah, a lot of new questions for people who don't know about these things.

So basically, Desagny made changes to its formula to address a specific complaint by consumers, but the consumers didn't understand why it tasted weird to them. So they basically made a big change to appease people. But the change doesn't it's not science bad, make it better.

Yeah, they just did it, which.

Seems to be a recurring issue. And you know in this podcast is people responding to critics, but not not ye listening to science.

So to sum up, the Sauni did indeed add salt to their water. But this isn't unusual. It wasn't a conspiracy to get you to buy more water. Yeah, and they still add salt, just different salts.

Yeah.

All of that said, Martin thinks Coca Cola made this formula change in part to fight back against those allegations.

And to be fair, we don't know if that's the case. Yeah, we don't know, speculating So that's that's.

The basic answers, the basic question of why do Saanny tastes different than other waters? Yeah, but now I think we need to do a little tastest ourselves and see if we notice anything. So after the break, let's do a little blind taste test to see how Desni fares.

I'm Manny, I'm Noah, and it's time for a taste test for a test. We're going to taste three waters of various TDS levels.

TDS stands for total dissolved solids.

This measures the dissolved.

Combined content of inorganic and organic substances in a liquid. This includes things like calcium, phosphates, sodium, potassium chloride, and more. TDS is measured in parts per million. We're going to compare distilled water, which of course has absolutely nothing in it, so that's totally stripped down, should taste like pure nothing. Number two designy so that's a purified water with a

And then just to clarify, the stale water has a TDS of zero. Yes, that's the most pure exactly.

Okay, yeah, okay, So we'll see how sensitive our palates are to see if we can guess which ones which for.

The audience, we do not know which is which will be revealed.

By fance rebottled these waters into other bottles labeled them and gave me our key that I'll be revealing afterwards. Okay, don't know this either, So let's start with a and per our experts instructions, we're going to have the stuff at room temperature, since ice or colder temperatures can number senses a bit.

Oh so we want the real flavor.

Gosh, and we're drinking out of wineglasses, so you know the water can open up and you know, really breathe a little bit crazy.

Okay, so this is a cheers following cheers cheers.

Okay, I mean it tastes like water.

I'm not getting a lot.

Of flavor in the no.

I feel like this is distilled.

I know, first I don't know, but then I'm I'm kind of like in there, maybe I might think this is the san I mean, I'm looking for like salt, now.

You know what this is?

Trying to think how long it's lingering in my mouth? I think it's I'll say it's it's not bad. I'm not loving it, though, I feel like the distilled is gonna be a'm I'm looking.

I don't like this. I'm looking for, you know, for my own preference. I have like a crispi er fresher. You know, I want less taste based on how you guys hate Dashani. I think this is the SON.

I think it's that's my guess.

I know. I think I'll go to SONI too.

Okay, all right, so.

We're gonna move on to B.

All right, a little less funky.

To me, I'm not.

Getting much from any.

Maybe this is distilled.

I think this may be distilled.

I think I'm not tasting anything, and it feels like it's disappearing really fast. Yeah, I think, But it's not so far off from the A.

So that's why I think B is distilled.

I think now it's like better be crazy. I guess we get.

But this feels like distilled.

To me. This had less taste than the previous one.

Yeah, and my mouth feels less different. Yeah, exactly, Like it.

Feels like as soon as I swallow, it's gone, it's.

Gone bottle boom. So all right, B we think is distilled. All right, now we're having C.

All right, you're C Yeah, mmm mm hmmm.

Is this one like creamier almost?

I think I think this. I think we got it right. I think it's evy on.

You know what this is crazy because I don't really have AVI on so this.

Is I don't really know. And the natural spring, Yeah.

I think this is because there's nothing I've tasted before.

So high t d s to me would mean that it was it has more of a taste.

Yeah.

Yeah, this is like you go to a beautiful spring. An opening in the in the woods is the waterfall. It's good, go down, put your put your hands, and then drink out of it.

All right, should I read?

Yeah, let's go to the key.

All right, let me over the key.

It's like the Oscar this movement.

All right.

Yeah, yeah, that was B distilled. And see.

And I'm saying A is the saani, B is avion, and C is distilled.

Alright, folks, the answer.

Devin and I are right, yeah, damn mean to me, the third one tastes the cleanest to me.

Yes, it tastes the cleanest because it's the most naked. Its natural.

That's how you should be drinking water.

In my opinion, that's the most refreshing.

I thought distilled more clean tasting than that.

No, because it's not. It's not more we're used to drinking.

Yeah. Yeah, but it's funny too because It's like Evan does market itself as like this luxury thing, and it's like here we are loving it.

The purpose of this is can we tell the difference between the water and you can? Yeah? Yeah, I'm actually.

Surprised, honestly that I that we we all have the real tell the difference the real heads.

I feel like we know if a Desaani lawyer is listening to this, I actually quite liked.

It, and listen, We're open to any sponsorships. Hey, Coke, I would love Poland Spring sponsorship, but I'm I'm ready to convert.

It's probably more money in the coke world.

Yeah, I don't know, it's definitely most likely we do end up with a Coke sponsorship. And you're probably gonna make us delete this episode. Oh yeah, okay, So now that we did the taste test, have either you've been converted to sony.

Converted to.

No.

In fact, you know I I at the beginning of this, I started as like, how can you.

Hate and get your agnostic?

And I don't hate it, but I did notice like, Okay, that's tastes so much different than the other ones, and I can easily see how someone would not.

Like that, and It's funny that you know, we picked up on that before even you know, Noah told us all this information. It's just like the Sani felt like it was trying to be someone that is not you know, like I would rather designy almost just be distilled water, just like, don't add anything to it, just be straight up because you're not spring, but you're trying to trick me a little bit into being spring. Sure, you're in this weird in between. It just makes me feel great

Now that I know the process stuff, I think I'll probably try to buy a spring water just because I know I like that already, I'll say, though the designy wasn't as bad, So I don't know if it's because the formula change or or just the setting room. So I can't say I would never buy a DESAGNI like I think maybe if I'm in a situation where I'm thirsty, I need the water, and I go to the venue machine and it's only Dasani, I'll say this, I'll give

I like the idea of this.

I like to taste spring or dot.

Spring, spring or die. All right, thanks for listening to no such thing.

The show is produced by Noah Friedman, Devin Joseph, and Manny Fidel.

Theme music is by Manny.

Additional research of this episode by Scott Davis, and our guests were Johnny Poujol and Martin Reese.

Thank you so much.

For more information, please subscribe to our newsletter at www dot nosuch Thing dot show. And if you have any feedback or have an argument you want us to settle, shoot us an email at Manny Noah Deevin at gmail dot com that's d E v A n. Lastly, if you like the show, please give us a five star rating and write a nice review. And just a quick heads up, you can now tell Alexa to play the podcast no such thing. To listen to us on Amazon Music.

Thanks and stay hydrated.

We'll see you next week.

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