Why did people used to look older?

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I'm Manny, I'm Noah.

And this is Devin.

And this is no such thing the show where we settle our dumb arguments and yours by actually doing the research on today's episode. Why do teenagers back in the day look so damn old?

There's no such thing thing.

Such, all right, fellas, I feel like this happens every other year at this point, But people are once again circulating a photo of the cast of Chairs from the eighties.

Sometimes you want to go where everybody knows your name.

And they're always bad. And it's getting a lot of attention because people were saying that these people who at the time were in their thirties look like they're someone were saying in their forties, and somewhere going as far as saying in their fifties or sixties. And this is just another example of this growing conversation that we have been having and people online have been having around why people in the past look so much older than people today.

Did people used to look older? Brandon McCarthy asked on Twitter, and evidence poured in.

You see, I'm convinced that people in the past looked older.

Than their age, or people today look younger.

I don't know.

So just first of all, do we all agree with that general sentiment that people back in the day, say, a thirty year old in nineteen seventy, looked older than a thirty year old looks today.

Yeah, definitely.

Yeah. You see it all the time. You see these like old black and white photos of someone who's like this person was only seventeen when they started this company, and it's like they look like they're forty five.

Yeah, yeah, it looks like a grown man.

The other arena I run into to this phenomenon all the time. Is watching old sports footage.

Funny you say that because you actually sent this in our group chat a little while ago. If you want to pull up this video.

So this is a TikToker going through Penn States? Is this this is increded nineteen eighty five team.

I am genuinely confused whenever somebody makes the claim that gen Z is aging like milk, because this is what college football players look like in the nineteen eighties. This guy, Michael Zordik, he looks like he has kids that are currently in high school. This guy Bob White looks like he's been serving as a cop for the past ten years.

No, yeah, they look ancient. I think college athletes are probably some of the healthiest people in the country.

Yeah, oh yeah, just.

In terms of like their physicality. Maybe they're eating bullshit on campus.

But like they're doing a lot more.

Yeah.

Sure, they're working out at least twice a day. They're young. Yeah, so yeah, it's bizarre to see, you know, some of these photos.

All right, So what do we think or why do we think people back in the day looked so much older than they do today?

Like, what are something that theories that come to mind for you? Guys.

Some are general health things, so I think people drink more water now true as yeah exactly seventeen sixteen, Yeah, sunscreen and kind of more general like wellness things like that, I think, and and then maybe overall diet.

Yeah.

I One of my theories too, is that when we're looking at old footage or pictures or something that's very clearly from that era, we might be associated old with the past.

Yeah.

Yeah, Like there's a theory that all of this is basically because of the style.

Yeah, I think a lot of it is, but yeah, I.

Don't know if I buy that. I don't know. I think some of it is.

I think some of it can you know, maybe it's ten percent. But to me, I'm like, Okay, with a lot of this stuff, I'm just seeing this person's face right Like we're in these headshots of these football players. I'm not even seeing there's no style. Okay, shuret to happen much, kids, And.

I love much.

When you watch Quirai or something and they take someone and do a you know three, do you give them the makeover?

Yeah, even just their hair or.

Something that can take a lot of like that. I can take about ten years off you easily.

Yeah, I think it can account for some of it. I don't think it counts for like a lot of what I'm seeing. Like people are like, there's a huge thread of this on Twitter, like four or five years ago, and people were posting like their parents, Yeah, their parents being like twenty two years old, like pregnant with them, and these people look like it's the person's grandparents. And the photos, you know, and that's like, yeah, some of

Well, let me back up for a minute. How do we think we look as a group?

Age and how people perceive my age is a very common occurrence in my life because because of how often I get carded at bars. Recently, I was in Williamsburg trying to get into this like cool new wine bar and the guy at the front carded me, but I left my card at home and I was like, all right, thanks anyway, man, And then I went to the side started talking to my friend who I went with, and I was like, man, if only this person who I

Come on in you thought you were a twenty year old young boy.

Yeah to get I've got a baby face, so I got the cheeks on me. I think that contributes to it.

If I didn't know you, I don't think twenty, I wouldn't say twenty. I would say twenty four. Maybe, yeah, I was going low. Yeah, I probably guess like like twenty seven.

Yeah, weights to I think with my weight, like if I lose a little bit of weight, I look older.

Yeah.

Oh, this is me contradicting myself based on what I said earlier. I think we as a group here younger than what we are. We live in New York, we dress perhaps younger than a lot of our peers would, like, you know, when you go on the suburbs that are not dressing like.

Us, yeah, or like going into an office yeah exactly where like you know you know.

Yeah, So I think that also helps in terms of like how we appear. But I think I still stand by the theory that in general, our generation looks younger.

Especially if you're just looking at faces and not taking in the style side of things, that sort of stuff.

After the break, I chat with a plastic surgeon who did an analysis on how and why our faces age. We're back, so I chatted with doctor Caroline Hudson.

I am a old plastic surgeon who has my practice in Chicago, Illinois.

So what what attracted you to your field? Was there something? Is this something that you were thinking about since you were a kid. Is this something that you got into when when you're in college.

Honestly, I uh, it started as a child when I watched those plastic surgery shows on TV.

Oh yeah, literally, like I know, yes, yes.

Honestly it's not very academic the way it all started, but that I was pretty into those shows, very fascinated by it all, and I alway kind of knew I wanted to be a doctor. It felt like a calling for me just from the beginning.

I remember all those plastic surgery shows that like CLC Yeah, were you guys fans?

Yeah, I watched the one with the boob jobs all the time. I can't remembering, I can't remember the name, but like all these women would go in and they would. It was like very uh revealing actually for a cable TV show. Shows were very yeah you can they blurg essentially just like just a tiny nipple and yeah.

But they're cutting open people and it's just like on TV.

Yeah, that was a little bit crazy for us to be watching at age thirteen.

I just always knew it would be plastic surgery, but I decided to focus just mostly on the face, so I did five years of had a neck surgery. I've always just cared about how things look like pretty simply, it matters who does your plastic surgery. It matters less like who takes out your appendix, but it really there's a level of artistry and taste to plastic surgery, and that refinement is something I really liked.

And it's one of those things too where I feel like, what this is like a lot of things where people don't notice it until it's like a good plastic surgeon, you won't notice right, like.

Yeah, you only notice it really when it is bad. So that's I think why it can have kind of a bad reputation. People are thinking of the duck lips or thinking of the wind tunnel, you know, face lift, when really like true plastic surgery is so much more subtle than that that most of the time you're not even going to be able to tell if or what procedure someone has had done.

So that's like the goal, right, But I think often when we think of plastic surgery, we think of like the extremes of like the Michael Jackson's or like low cam or you know someone who's just like that person doesn't look like they used.

To look like, or it doesn't even look like a person, like yes, natural person.

Yeah, it's like this other thing.

So I came across doctor Hudson because she was one of the authors of the Analysis of Facial Aging, which was a review summary which synthesizes like what we know

So that was the first.

Thing that I want to hear it sort of break down and like, what are the big changes that happened to your face as you age?

A lot of things change, you know, intrinsically, like what's going on with your body as you age. You're losing facial volume, so a lot of times it's at the temple. You'll get some hollowing here, you get some hollowing in your cheek area. You're just losing some of the fat that lives kind of right underneath the skin and deeper

It's kind of refreshing to hear a surgeon talk about fat as a good thing.

I know.

Was that was kind of shocking, Yeah, because you think about a baby, it's like, yeah, they have, you know, fuller faces.

Yeah, and we've I guess it was a year or two years ago was the big uh Google fat surgery trend where they kind of go into your mouth, I think, and take the fat away from the inside of your cheek, which makes you appear more skeletal for lack of a better word. Yep, but people like that it's like a gaunt look.

Yeah, and that I've definitely noticed that with even just like following different like actors in movies or something, you'll just notice, you know, yeah, they lose weight just naturally is your age or whatever. And then it's like, oh, yeah, now it's like you definitely look a lot older.

So naturally, you know.

I wanted to know sort of like what other factors outside of just time that caused our faces to age.

We quote in the paper eighty percent of extrinsic aging is directly related to sun exposure. So alcohol, we know it's not good for the skin. Cigarette smoke is not good for the skin. But sun is going to be like the main you know, negative factor when it comes to aging.

So it's out of all those smoking, drinking, you know, stress, the sun does the most damage.

Yeah, for sure, for sure, And like we've learned that along the way, right like decades ago, that was of like maybe background information, if a consideration at all to most people in the world or Americans, And now it's something that's like very prevalent in societies, like apply your sunscreen sun damage skin cancer. Reapply light skin people, dark skinn people, whoever you are, put on sunscreen, you can

All right, So she was talking about sun being the biggest factory. That's also interesting if we're going to keep using myself as an example.

Here, because you don't use sunscreen.

I don't use sunscreen, but you know, I like being in the sun, but I but I've noticed that I become uncomfortable in the sun a lot sooner than most of my friends. So I'm not in the sun.

As much as that's true, you do hide from the sun interesting and call it hiding.

But project when I go to the beach, for example, you're in like hours and ninety minutes and I'm done. Oh yeah, some people are there like six hours.

This makes sense because I was thinking about you when she was saying this, because I know for a fact you do not use sunscreen, because we've argued about this before, and I was like, how is Mann. You look so young, but you just limit your son time?

Uh look, not in not weird play video games all day?

Not in a not in like okay, well man refuses to come out suns out.

But just like you, you always.

Look for shade when we go out to places, and like you're not someone who's just gonna like sit in this.

Like I guess it's uncomfortable, like.

After like thirty minutes or something like oh finding some shade?

Yeah yeah, no, do you use somebuck not not like regularly, only pretty if you're going to the beach or you know, laying out of the pool, but like not like I walked over here, you know, through the park.

No sunscreen.

I so every day, like in the morning, I will put sunscreen on before I wash my face. Really like, I'll do like a water I wake up, I'll do a water thing, and then I put sunscreen on because I like when I'm walking my dog, that's the most time.

I'm spending outside. Yeah. Well I was saying this too.

Growing up, you know, and black community, and this is still something I argue with my family about today.

They're like, we don't need sunscream we're black.

Yeah.

Yeah, it's like no, we do, Like, yeah, we thought the idea.

What is the idea is that, like you have more melanin, right, so.

It's more of a protection. Obviously.

You know, I've never gotten sunburn in my life, and for a large part of my life I did not wear some block.

Yeah, but doesn't mean it's not harmful.

Yeah, exactly. Exposure to the sun is like not great for your skin. And she also looks at you know that, saying like black donk crack. How different ethnicities tend to inch.

Yeah in the brows strokes general speaking, you know, ninety characters or less. It's Caucasian folks. White folks will have less collagen in their skin, and so they are going to be more susceptible to things like fine lines and wrinkles. Melanated folks will have more and tighter collagen bundles, making them less susceptible to things like wrinkles, and so skin stay smooth, but jowling, sagginess, laxity can be more obvious.

Yeah, it's interesting thinking about, you know, the what causes different demographics to have to have those kind of different perceived effects on their age. Never thought about it like that.

Did you guys see differences between men and women?

Yes, so, And some of this is compounded by the fact that men kind of expose themselves to higher risk behaviors. They're going to be more so like heavier drinkers and smokers, especially depending on you know, what country you're talking about, but pretty much universally men smoke more than women. So those factors can kind of compound things and make it so that men are going to be wrinkling earlier on and have like more pronounced wrinkles. But again, I think

I know we're talking about a lot of like aging in terms of how people look. How much of this is tied to like your biological health? Do people who look older generally have worse health than you know, someone else who may look younger at their age, or is or is this just like a whole different thing.

It's a good question. I don't think there's a simple answer. I think it's that kind of classic nature versus nurture debate. It's like does this person have good genetics or in the example you provided of someone who looks like older than they are. Do they just have bad genetics or

Yeah, yeah, I've got to guess that genetics is probably a factor. Can I can easily imagine, yeah, you know, someone doing all the work they can, but you can't fight.

Some people just look oh yeah yeah, and they don't you know, it's not because of what they're doing out.

In the world.

When I was in middle school, one of our classmates had a beard.

In middle school, That's what I'm talking about.

And you know, and we're in middle school, so he's instantly aged or whatever. Yeah, that's crazy.

So there have also been a bunch of studies that show that, based on like people's biomarkers, that people today are biologically younger than they were in the past. So I think maybe that plays a part as well in terms of just like people taking better care of themselves, like we were talking about earlier, not smoking, you know, exercising that sort of thing. But back to kind of where we started, I wanted to put our theory in

I think that is true.

Yes, Why do you think that is?

I think there are a lot of different like things that can contribute to that. But from my perspective as a facial plastic surgeon, is, like we mentioned, like the beauty aesthetic our culture views beauty today is like looking youthful and equating youth with like that dewey glass skin, lack of wrinkles, poudy lips, like you name it. Like the features of today, it's much more important. It's much

Yeah, all those factors make a ton of sense. It makes me. I wish there was some way we could test it where we go back fifty years or whatever and give someone like a good skincare Do.

You really care? You gotta use sunscreen every day.

If you have a time trouble machine, this is what you do. You can do anything.

I don't kill Hitler. I want to see how young dance, and we're gonna give him sunscreen.

All right.

So if someone is listening, it's like, okay, I want to look as young as possible for as long as possible. Yeah, what are some tips that you would give them?

It's a common question, I get. So I do like ABC like vitamin A derivatives. So we've all heard of like retinol or retinoids. Retinoid is like the stronger version. The brand for that is typically threton a so or retina, which is tretono in. So everybody should be on some percentage of that because that is the best topical treatment you can do to your skin when it comes to hyper pigmentation, fine lines, pores, stimulating collagen. It's an excellent

Yeah?

I tend not to think, so I equate it more to like exercise, consistency is the key. So if you're doing those three things, like you're doing better than ninety five percent of the population, and if you're doing on a consistent basis, that's really like the best way to set yourself up for like you know, a smooth aging process.

In outside of the products, there's also some lifestyle things that you can keep in mind.

I mean, drinking water for sure will help, even just like temporarily a lot of times, if you're like, wow, I'm looking really wrinkly and old, if you just have like two giant, like cold glasses of water, that will have like a plumping, nice hydrating effect on your skin and you will see fewer fine lines. It's not a like a fix or of like a temporary effect, but one hundred percent hydration will make your skin look plumper

Body keeps the score.

Yes, yeah, it's I just came up with I just came up with that thought.

And then as far as things that we can do without.

Oh so many of.

I tend to.

I'm not sure how we got into like ie creams as a Thing's like, why are eyes a separate part of your face? Then, like you're just your face skin?

Okay, this is this is big for me because that's one of the few things I do have, is like an a caffeine I cream because someone told.

Me to use it.

Yeah, yeah, and that's fine, right, Like people, I'll meet patients who push back and they're like, I love my cream, and I'm like, that's great. I don't.

I don't really, I can't tell.

I don't.

I don't know when we got to a point where I eye products were separate things. So I think some and they're so expensive, so I think it's a little bit gimmicky. Like expectation is everything. So if you're expecting something like with huge results, most things just have very small results.

All right.

So based on what we heard from doctor Hudson, first of all, you guys gonna change is not changed? Are you going to start doing the skincare routine? Care about your face.

Are you guys?

Just like whatever I look young, genetics are good enough. I'm not gonna put on some block.

I'll probably do it a little bit more. But to be honest, I don't care that much. Yeah, I'm not. It's not like I'm worried about other things trying to get through the day.

Did you see that Trump got elected again? I'm actually pretty preoccupied. No, No, I I don't know. I'm probably not going to change all that much. I will try out the facial, the face, moisturizer with an SPF, with an SPF, the sun block when I go outside. I think that's going to be a tough one for me.

No, I'm not saying put on some block every time you go outside. I'm just saying, moisturizer with an SPF.

Yeah.

Not on your body, yep, just on your face.

Okay, why not?

I'm sure me I had something in here that you could just pop on.

Definitely.

It's probably five different and once you becomes part of your routine.

I used to be like you guys, Yeah, I'm sure. Yeah, about ten years ago, I wasn't doing any of this stuff. It's it's pretty easy, like putting on lotion, doesn't take that long.

I do put lotion off.

Yeah, it's just like you're already in yet.

Yeah, many, you have no excuse because you're already in.

I always like that he's introducing something new to his unless it's you know, cold out in his hand exactly.

This man's not daily moisturizing you already.

You already got to put it on your body, so it's just like, just get another another thing to put on your face. As I was wrapping this up, I came across this video.

The title of this video is high school prom two thousand and eight.

Now, so that was two years before.

Fortunately, that's only two years before we had our high school proms.

Yeah, and I'm going to read you a comment here from Nurse Tommy.

Nurse Tommy, all right.

You cannot convince me that teenagers in this era did not look like they were at lead twenty five.

Some of these guys look older, but I'd peg these as seventeen to twenty.

Okay, Yeah, but they were to argue about how old the people in the video looked.

The point is that.

I think it's a bit of human nature to think that you look younger than you actually look. So there was actually a study that came out last year about this phenomenon oka They found that fifty nine percent of adults age fifty to eighty years old thought they looked younger than their peers. And what I found even more interesting about the study is that the people who reported that fifty nine percent who looking younger than their peers

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