I'm Manning, I'm Noah, and this is no such thing. The show where we settle hard on arguments and yours by actually doing the research.
This week, are we all clones?
No, there's no no such thing, no such thing. Touch thank touch thang touch bang.
All right, what's up thingers? This week We've got a special episode. We teamed up with Chelsea bober Smith to talk about the popularity of celebrity clone conspiracies. Chelsea's show, American Hysteria tackles all sorts of wild subjects, hoaxes, moral panics, and just odd misunderstandings. Today we'll hear about a clone whistle blower and talk to a bioscience is expert to find out just how feasible human cloning actually is. All Right, many to start, want to run us through a few
clone theories you've come across yourself? Yeah, sure, I mean, I mean essentially pretty much every celebrity when they like lose a little bit of weight, there's a new conspiracy about them being a clone. So all of the kind of classic ones you've got, Britney Spears, clone conspiracies, you've got Jennifer Lopez, jay Z one of my favorites, Gucci Mane the rapper. He went to jail. When he was released, he obviously was in much better shape, a lot less
body fat percentage, you might say. And immediately people were like, wow, they cloned him while he was in there, and then they've got this like new, better looking Gucci man. So I thought that was funny.
I remember with that one too.
Part of it, too, is you know, he came out he had this new outlook on life. Yes, you know, it's like the classic like I'm a bit more reform now. Yeah, he was seemed a little bit more chill and interviews and they're like, that's.
Not yeah, he can't be, which, by the way, is like a very common thing to happen when you're released from prison. You just have like a different outlook on life to be way a little bit less, especially for the first you know, a couple of weeks at least.
I kind of it was entiny to me. I kind of thought it was funny. I enjoyed the Gucci colon. I ain't gonna see.
Him in front now. The I think one of the more recent famous ones was Jamie Fox. He got sick, I think, and lost a bunch of weight, and I don't know. People were really crazy about that one.
The clone shit threw me. Yes, when they said I was a clone that made me flip in the hospital. That's it, these motherfuckers trying to clone me. I didn't have a stroke, So I'm sitting in my I'm sitting in the hospital, be like these bitch as. And then I saw me walk into my room.
But I'm white.
Well, especially because we didn't see him for a while. Yes, And that's always I feel like a key part of this cloning stuff that comes up over and over again. It's like if you don't see a public person in person for a bit, they think that's when cloning stuff is happening.
Yes, makes a very long process according to the conspiracies.
And then you didn't mention one of my favorite new ones because this is you know, I feel like a lot of these are kind of a little bit more dark web. But the one that I've seen that like I've heard normal people talking about is the Milania Yeah clone.
Have you have you heard about the Chelsea?
Yeah, I've definitely heard about this one. I don't know a ton about it, you know, but I feel like that one is like one where I'm like, maybe, you know, maybe this could be this. She's got a clone.
Vibe about Who am I to judge? Yeah, I definitely remember that people would do it, you know, side by side videos and being like her nose looks totally different here, or her hands doing this thing. Yeah, it's so unlike, you're like people that I would think are normal minded.
Yeah, not compete conspiracy.
Yeah, sometimes it's clones, but sometimes it's body doubles. So I think that was more the like that they were like, she didn't want to participate in these events, so they got like an actress, I guess.
Yeah, yeah, they get look a like.
Speculation that Malania sometimes sends a body double to make official appearances with her husband first surfaced in twenty seventeen. The First Lady's Office has previously called the fake Mulania story ridiculous.
It's funny because it's like she's not really doing anything, you know, It's like it's just standing there. Like I can tell by the way that that is not Milania. This is some other thing.
Who hasn't been mentioned yet. Is Avril Levine. Oh yeah, because that was a really popular one for a while. She was replaced by I think someone named Melissa. I like that one because there was like a whole backstory to the clone, or maybe it wasn't a clone. You know, this is what you're saying. There's like a lot of
body double clone crossover and I think replaces. Yeah, and another one I'm thinking of two is and I again this is like clone body double I can't quite remember, but the one where Taylor Swift is the same person or was cloned from Anton Levey, the famous Satanists, either daughter or someone that ran the Church of Satan. There's like a picture side by side that everyone should go
and see. And it's like this woman from like the Satanic panic era, like you know, she looks very witchy and then it shows like side by side and it is compelling.
They do look yeah, I got it now wow actually yeah, yeah, well we'll make a video and we'll show this. But yes please, oh wow, Okay, definitely some some shared DNA.
Yeah to say that is kind of nuts.
And the the eyebrows in the note all right, yeah, I'm convinced I've seen enough.
Well, if you throw some Satanism in there, things are just gonna really hop the fuck off.
So yeah, yeah, well That's what I'm excited to learn a little bit about in this episode, is like, I've heard these theories my whole life. No one has ever been like and this is why they're a clone. H wow, So I can't wait to hear.
Something funny you mentioned that?
So yeah, why why don't we take this? And Devin's done some research into kind of the ins and outs of this whole world.
Yeah, the cloning industry, Yeah, why don't you?
Why don't you pick us there?
So celebrity cloning really, at least the conversation around it really hit its peak in twenty sixteen, but a few years before that, we had our first let's call him cloning whistleblower. All right, it's this guy named Donald Marshall. He's known on the dark web as the guy really bringing let's say, eyeballs and attention to this issue of cloning because he, in fact, is a clone himself.
Oh wow, all right, a man on the inside.
A man on the inside. So they're not happy that he's taught about this stuff. It's brave, as we'll find out. So in twenty eleven, Donald wrote a Facebook post that really sort of blew up any circles where he walks through some of the mechanics of the cloning world and what's happening. So let me read some of it, and then I want to play a bit of an interview that he did so in twenty eleven, he writes, this is no hoax, this is no joke. My name is
Donald Marshall. I've been cloned by a large secretive cult known as the Freemasons and the Real Society and scientologists together.
Oh they collabed, ok, and.
This is called the Illuminati.
Oh, I've never heard of it.
They make replicated bodies of people to victimize in terrible ways. They clone children for men with underdeveloped penises, that have sex with whoa some very famous and politically powerful people, all getting together for a disgusting time. Most of the G twenty gathered there to discuss worldly matters and watch gruesome things done to innocent people for sport. I have seen this firsthand and will tell all as it must be stopped.
The way year was this.
This was in twenty eleven.
Wow, Wow, it's so funny with these with like the details of the conspiracy theory. Most of the G twenty, like some of them, were not invited.
Not everyone and not everyone is showing up most of the digital and we're gonna get some more specific names. So that was twenty eleven. He starts to make the rounds. He starts appearing on a couple of podcasts. You know this is around you got to think about. Shortly after this, we're getting Pizzagate. We're getting a lot of these conversations around people and you know, in politics, especially being tied to pedophilia. So a lot of this comes up in
Donald's story. So here's him on Conspiracy Podcast in twenty thirteen.
It's Donald Marshall. Welcome to the program.
Hello, Thanks, Why don't you tell us just a little bit of background about yourself for those who are unaware.
First, I wanted to tell you about the cloning stuff. Okay, now human cloning. I have to tell you it's been done since at the end of World War Two. Okay, I'll tell you how they got it and the whole shebang, like thirty third degree freemason, Knowlans I'm probably going to die for this somewhere along the lines.
Okay, keep this.
Picture of this remembory request about everything. Couldn't remember anything. I'm still getting side effects from this about as memory repressed about the cloning stuff until I was thirty years old. They call it the awakened when they give you back the memories. Turns out they had me there since I was five years old, okay, and my family is there, my family members and everything, and they said they're not going to lie on a lot of detector tests about it.
It's it's pretty big, like they were going to kill me, they said. The thing is the way that this cloning works. Okay, there's two different kinds of cloning, and it confuses people. Now there's replication cloning where it comes up as a baby, right, put the cells in, make the same person as a baby. Well, there's duplication cloning as well, where they grow you in a big thick tank fill full of water. This is
another crazy aspect of it. Okay. The thing is with all the songs that I made at this place, and they were bringing me back every single night.
Okay, So some context here He talks about basically the way you know a lot of people are tortured and at this place and taking advantage. Actually, the thing that kind of saved him was his music ability. So he would sing a lot and write songs and that he would entertain the people in the cloning facility, which is why he was spared from the worst of it.
So that's some contacts going into this here.
This is another crazy aspect of it. Okay. The thing is with all the songs that I made at this place, and they were bringing me back every single night and singing, sing a song, or we're going to torture you next night, sing a song. We're going to torture you. Sometimes I couldn't think of anything, and they would just like stab
me and watch me bleed there. And now they're all watching like it's a bizarre face as a death thing, and different people want to know what it's like to stab someone, so they send them up to stab me while among drugs so I won't hit them or something.
It's like that.
It's pretty sick. And well, I have to tell you. Queen Elizabeth is there, of course, Stephen Harper, Canadian Prime Minister, Obama is there. Vladimirs the Pope.
Is even there, all kinds.
Of heads of different factions of different things. Ahead of the Mexican drug cartels there, Mafia in Italy is there, man, everybody's there. It's like the rich guy's crazy things. They were caught and you have to be real privileged to go there. Well, I don't want to go there, and I'm not privileged there. I'm pretty low on the totem
pole there, actually probably the lowest. So anyway, they'll they'll threatened me never to talk about it, and along as they've been divulging this stuff on Facebook, they've been bringing me there and threatening me and stuff and then asking me not to mention them specifically what they've done there and stuff and panicking.
Really okay, first thing I want to mention that I'm glad Donald brought up is kind of a baby clones versus the replication clones, because this was always talking because you know, I was looking into the history and there's you know, people talk about Paul McCartney being cloned. It's like, well that's great, but I mean, did they know when he was a baby in nineteen forty in Liverpool. We're
going to need a second one of these lads. Let's get this one cooking so then when we're ready we can just you know, soft on that so that this is helpful that there's a way to you know, do a full body clone in a thick tank of water to match, you know, whenever you need it. It does help that was illuminated to understand their theories. It does because that was the one that that I was totally on board, but that was the one thing that always kind of got in the way of me accepting.
These But now that you know that, yeah, you accept this checks out, I.
Think this would be a kind of good moment to like orient ourselves in this conspiracy era really quick, because I think we know, you know, we talk about conspiracy theories all the time in the Trump era, but I was a conspiracy theorist during the late Bush early Obama era. And don't worry, it wasn't it didn't get to Harry or anything like that, but you know, I was My dad was like a prepper, kind of like an Illuminati guy, so I knew a lot about it. But it's just
like the clones. It's related to the Reptilians. You guys remember that, right, Like those videos of Obama blinking sideways.
Oh yeah, yeah, those were simpler times.
They were simpler times, and it was like all linked to the Illuminati, but it just like wasn't so overtly racist and so overtly like antisemitic as it would become or it was, but you had to like dig really deep until you got to that shit.
Yeah, it was so Nita didn't feel as bad. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I definitely remember all of the like jay Z's like Rockefella hands so yeah, oh yeah, triangle and like at a certain point that there were So there was the conspiracy theory snow ball to the extent where he like had made a song about he like denied the claims in the song Conspiracy.
Different scream in Illuminati. They can't believe his much scale. That's in the human body. He's six' to how to fit.
In that only made people believe it.
More, yeah it's that's that's what you would say if you wanted us to believe exactly WHAT i. Thought donald's clip there was interesting about how he's kind of divulging all this information secret, information and the most powerful people in the world are just kind of, like please don't say, this like instead of killing him according to his conspiracy it's like why would they be so?
Allowing, yeah and looking into this he. Does his major contradiction in his you, know quote unquote reporting is that he says yet he's in the most powerful. People they do all these horrible things to, Everyone but somehow they're keeping him alive and letting him.
Talk about this. Stuff maybe because he's a clone.
Himself he said he was actually cloned from when babies are, circumcised and you know the tissue at the hospital that's. Discarded he, said he's a clone from that tissue. Himself so DON'T i don't know why he gets a pass despite being you, know pretty loud online about what's happening behind closed. Doors BUT i want to you, know we talked About Britney spears. Already donald says he actually has
a connection To Britney, spears, okay and her. Clones So Britney spears right before she drops baby one more time in ninety, eight allegedly she got into a really bad car crash With Justin, timberlake and that is the moment in which she was. Cloned and Then donald's telling most of these celebrities who have, clones it's not just one. Clone you got to have a few, backups so there's five or six or you, know seven, Clones And donald, telling, like the reason Why britney has had so many ups
and downs in her careers because these are different. Clones these are actually different people that you're. Seeing some are a little bit more manic than. Others but one of the clones in two thousand and nine came To donald and, say, HEY i need your help because remember he's musically, talented.
And this is in the clone camp or Where.
Yeah i'm assuming it's in a clone. Camp, okay we'll check in With.
We've got some fact checking all this From donald and talks to. Her and in that, Year Britney spears releases a song called Break, dice which there's some clues in, which you, know there's if you listen to the, lyrics and some clues there about cloning that she sneaks in to try to let the world. Know and this is an interesting tidbit here the music. Video it's it's an animated. Video and in the, Video Britney spears goes to a clone lab where there's all these clones and blows it.
Up oh, wow clones of her the, Clones, yeah, yeah, okay they're in the tanks That donald talks about filled with water.
DEVELOPING i.
See can you imagine how he felt when he saw that?
Video Like i've been telling, everybody, look holy it's. Happening.
Well conspiracy theorists love the idea that the masterminds are leaving behind clues for you to follow.
Along, yeah there's a great stand up bit about.
That oh, Yeah Nick, Mollen Nick.
Mullen, yeah but.
That was always so funny to me because it's, like, like what do you think?
Happened?
Right like the fucking c I a was, like, okay plans ready to, go ready to blow up The World Trade. Center there's only one step, left.
The.
Clues.
Yep, yeah it's clue. Tome it's time to get the clues out. There we wouldn't have gotten away with.
It SO i was.
Curious you, know a lot of us is over ten years old now From, donald SO i was curious if he's still posting and talking about this stuff.
Today he.
Is His facebook is very active to the point where obviously we're recording this just a few days after finding out That Rob reiner was killed along with his, wife and you, know the leading suspect who are in the cops right now is their, son And donald posted just last night they went to the cloning center. Regularly it's possible their son regained his memory about cloning after age thirty spontaneously where they allowed him to remember and he
got revenge for mistreatment. There so this is where we have this sort of, like you, know it's, funny we're having a good, time and then real people's lives, are you, know, yeah being, affected and he's sort of swooping in here and a sort of like take advantage of the, situation, yeah and claiming that actually they kind of deserved it because.
Of what they did to. Them so this is where the conspiracy theories start to get a little achy for. Me, yeah not as, Fun.
Chelsea i'm curious how this feel like this echoes a lot of kind of alien abduction sorts of. Theories i'm sure in your your work you've found tons of things like. This how does this kind of stock?
Up?
YEAH i mean, god it's, like there's so there's so many things popping into my.
Head it's going.
Along one of them would be the history of alien abductions and how people go to therapists to recover memories of their alien. Abduction, Right so there's this memory, thing which is also satanic panic stuff where it's like suddenly you recover this memory of being a child in a satanic cult that you would completely. Repress so it's like this like memory coming back suddenly is a big part
of conspiracy. Theory and then like it makes me think of LIKE Mk ultra right where there's like this government body controlling the most famous and powerful people for you, know name your, reason, Right AND i, also you, KNOW i go back, to LIKE i, said The. Reptilians this like body swapping thing has been around a long time and continues to be. Around and THEN i can look at someone Like Tila. Tequila do you guys Remember Tyla tequila?
Familiar?
Yes, yes, YEAH i MEAN i loved her on A shot At. LOVE i really loved that show was like the bisexual, yes men and women buying for?
Her, yes, yes, yes, yeah great show WHEN i was.
Thirteen great thing to revisit. Everyone last, Season Tila tequila began her quest for.
Love i'm a.
Bisexual oh and after meeting sixteen hot lesbians and sixteen straight, guys she found but.
What she went down The illuminati pipe like really. Hard AND i tracked that because of course it was fascinating to. Me and you, know she got into Mk. Ultra she said that she was Mk. Ultrad she said she was cloned at one, point which is you know WHY i think it's. Relevant but she did that classic like pipeline into literally becoming A. Nazi you guys know, this it's, interesting, yeah right, Right so she's kind of a great like case of how you can start with these kinds of silly.
THINGS i, mean we know this, now we know the like algorithm pushes us toward, extremism but things were like we didn't have the same types of algorithms, then so it is more self, PROPELLED i, Think and you could just start with, like, yeah maybe all the powerful people are like, Reptiles like there are. Aliens they are inhuman looking to, Me so let's like start from, there and then eventually you're like in A nazi uniform taking a photo. Shoot it happens.
Wild, yeah the reptilian.
Thing it's coming up a lot with the clone, stuff looking into a lot of these people that they're claiming our. Clones there's you, know random videos where the person blinks in a certain way and they're, like, oh they're glitching. Out one of the people who comes up time and time again with this stuff is. Eminem you, know he's been famous for a long time, now part of the conspiracy is like people, say, oh his voice has actually
changed over his, career like it doesn't sound. Early Some shady doesn't sound the same.
Old yeah too. Weird, also just people's voices change over. Time it's.
Older he's aging every.
Day it sounds about twenty years old.
Than he did years.
Ago and then people will point to videos like, This so this is an interview between eminem.
And have y'all shot a video together?
Before, no we was in a movie, together and.
Uh the video what was?
It the dre Video i'm representing for the cases when you're on the beach running on that? Video what's that in that? Video, yeah you was running on the. Beach that was like your debut. ALBUM i was you was running on the. Beach you was running on the beach with no clothes. On you gotta show me that ship shady. Cut you was like, crazy real. Crazy you don't remember that cuse you was running on the beach cause in the video BUT i don't even, know there was a bunch of girls around and all.
Of a sudden would fit to.
You oh, yeah, okay, okay now remember.
So people are pointing to this video as, oh obviously he doesn't remember because that was. Clone it wasn't him so, Incredible so you, know even small moments of people are being, like, OH i don't really remember that, thing people turn Into, okay here's more proof that this person.
Him forgetting is so easy to believe, too has like you, know in the music, industry or like the rock, world you're kind of drunk all the, time or do all these drugs on these music video. Sets it's not hard to believe that he would forget.
That probably not the first or last thing he's filmed on the beach. Either.
Yeah next up we hear from someone who knows how cloning actually. Works my interview With bioscience is expert Professor Henry.
Galley after the, break all, right we are.
Back we're here With chelsea talking about, clones celebrity, clones and all the theories surrounding. THEM i want to find out does cloning actually happen and, how and then try to find out if humans could be cloned and why are why? Not SO i spoke to Doctor Henry.
Greeley i'm a law professor At stanford WHERE i work on, ethical legal and social issues in the. Biosciences i'm the director Of Stanford center For law and The biosciences and a professor by courtesy of.
Genetics so we all know About dolly the sheep in the late.
Nineties, yes her name Is dolly seven months. Old she may not be the monster imagined in a science fiction, fantasy yet The Cuddy Finn dorset lamb may represent a major landmark in the history of genetic engineering on an ordinary farm In. Scotland scientists say a clone was created from a single cell taken from the utter of a. Sheep the embryo was then implanted in a, surrogate making
an exact genetic copy of its so called. Mother scientists tail it as a triumph for research in, aging medicine and.
Genetics So dolly was really important because before this people didn't really think you could clone. Mammals frogs and other animals had been cloned, before and like people had tried with mice and rats and it never worked and people weren't sure exactly, why but certainly something like a sheep has never happened. Before there was a you, know major reaction TO dolli not just excitement and like, wow but you, know ethical concerns and, like what does this mean for.
Humanity the reaction To dolly was.
Startling it was worldwide.
Hysteria we went from one cloned lamb to armies of cloned warrior slaves in.
HEADLINES i think part of.
The hysteria was even though we should have known that this could, happen nobody'd been paying. Attention so the result of the hysteria was a bunch of laws around the
world saying human cloning is. Illegal california actually passed one of the first of, those although it made a nice distinction that later became pretty important in THE us, controversially the distinction between reproductive cloning cloning a human to make another, baby and research cloning or therapeutic, cloning cloning a human in order to make an embryo where it could take some cells from that embryo to use to treat the person who you had, cloned because that, way if the
cells have the SAME dna as the person you, cloned that person's immune system won't attack, them it will think accurately that it's the same. Person it kicked off a six to ten year fight about embryo research cloning, embryos and much of the cloning came down TO i, mean everybody agreed you shouldn't clone. Babies some thought it was just, wrong AND i just thought it's too. Dangerous but there was a disagreement about whether you should be able to clone.
Embryos so that's kind of the immediate aftermath Of dolly is you, Know, okay what is this going to mean for?
Us?
Like are we just going to make a bunch of? Humans is this just how the world is going to be like overrun with. Clones we get into a little bit more of the ethical concerns of playing god in this, way but even, there you, know he touched on kind of the actual.
Therapeutic uses of.
Cloning, yeah so anyway we can get a little bit more into that and kind of the actual uses of quote unquote. Cloning but these laws didn't scare everyone. Off some people went for.
It after dollars birth is, Announced it's front page headlines all over the, world lots of different of outrage and, legislation but there were also some there was a. Countercurrent there were people who Said i'm going to clone myself OR i want to make a. Clone one of, them particularly noteworthy was a physicist Named Richard.
Seed.
SEED i, mean sometimes fact is stranger than. FICTION a guy Named seed who wants to clone. Himself he've strongly Resembled Doc brown from The back to The future, franchise and he looked like a mad. Scientist and he went ON tv and his brother ran AN ivf, clinic so he was going to clone. Himself there were Two, obgyns one From kentucky and one FROM i Believe, greece who
also announced that they were going to do human. Cloning AND i actually claimed to have gotten a pregnancy, started although no one actually knows whether.
That was true or.
Not but the most interesting would be, cloners who was a religious. CULT i THINK i can called them a. Cult it's still around called the Re alliance R A e L I a N. S there was A french race car driver who was visited by aliens in a space.
Ship oh do you.
Best tell us yourself what your experience was with aliens In?
Fightful.
YES i was a journalist in the center Of france in nineteen seventy three AND i was contacted by people coming from out of. Space and these people are very. Special they contact. Me they came in a volcano with what you the name you give is THE ufo but it was not exactly. Uffo and the man went out of these flying so so and he spoke to.
Me who told him that they had seeded life On earth millions of years, before and they had seeded, humans and you, know they were our, parents our, gods and he should form a group that would acknowledge them and pass along their. Truths and by the, way his new name Was. Rayel he apparently was a charismatic race car, driver and as AS i think the case with many of these particularly unusual religious, sects he seems to have had a strong degree of sexual, magnetism because his sex
seemed to be made up mainly of attractive young. Women, interesting but it was a flying saucer.
Cult you.
Know they believe that there were these aliens who had started, us and the aliens wanted things for us to. Do this had STARTED i think in the, SEVENTIES i mean years Before. Dolly but Once dolly comes, Out rayel, says, oh by the, way the aliens told me that it was our duty As raeliens to clone, humans because that's the next step in human.
Evolutions so we're cloning.
Humans and, here by the, way is my very attractive young female head Cloner glegitque de Bois, ange who was a, biochemist which has very little to do with the science behind.
Cloning but they set up a cloning.
Lab which Was brigitte In West, virginia and they.
Said their goal was to clone.
PEOPLE fda then got involved and, said, no you need our permission to do. That so they, said, well we don't want to ask your, permission and they moved their lab to The.
Bahamas they got to, work and in late two thousand and Two brigitte how a press conference to make this. Announcement i'm, very very pleased to note that the first baby cool is.
Born her name Was, eve but they weren't going to disclose any more information in order to protect her, privacy of. Course BUT i don't think anybody outside the realiens believes.
It eve has never.
Appeared there's never been any proof that she, exists so that she's a.
Clone, Yeah SO i thought this was a pretty Interesting uh.
Yeah they sound like almost like The Heaven's gate, cult where the aliens are giving them instructions that they need to, do and then at the end of those instructions they're supposed to commit suicide.
And go away on the, spaceship.
But the re aliens are still. Around it sounds like, Yeah AND i had heard about them that in some passing capacity before. THIS i didn't realize, though that they existed way before the. Clones and THEN i like, that you, know their leader was like read the news and was, like, oh, yeah this is this is sexually yeah and grab yeah it's pretty, smart you.
Know, yeah headlines.
Exactly and there's more examples of people trying in different levels of kind of. Seriousness there's A South korean scientist who claim to have succeeded and like was really revered In korea and they made postage stamps with his face on it and, stuff and then he was debunked as a. Fraud but that person does does have a successful pet cloning business. Today so pet, cloning we, know does. Happen barbara STREISAND i Think Tom brady, Recently, Yes Tom brady came out.
Recently Tom brady is. Adorable Pop juny is a social media, star but if she looks, familiar it's definitely not a. Coincidence the dog is actually a clone Of brady's previous piple Mix, lua who died in twenty twenty. Three THE nfl legend revealing his new dog's background this, week, writing in a few short, Months colossal gave my family a second chance with a clone of our beloved, Dog, brady an investor in the biotech Company Colossal.
Biosciences, yeah and then, yeah and THEN i talked to Doctor greeley about all this stuff. Too but you see all these stories, about you, know cloning mammoths or dire.
Wolves, yes.
The issue and this kind of speaks to the ethics when especially when to talk about, humans is it's very, mysterious and there's a lot of loss when you're doing These so a lot of dogs are dying when they're cloning these. Pets so it's, like because there's kind of these source dogs that they're, using and it's it's kind of they're not they're unclear about the. Numbers but when
you look into. It there's a really Good New yorker article That i'll link to as, well where it's like they're talking about, it and it's, like, yeah they're very vague about it because it's probably like thirty dogs dying to make.
Your one clone.
Lives it's pretty you, know pet cloning, businesses is it the same kind of cloning as As, DOLLY i think it's a pretty similar process where it's, basically, yeah you have the kind of these cell lines that you can keep a lot for, generations and then you kind of grab from that and then mix it with new.
Ones.
Yeah so, YEAH i, mean the reliens, fascinating and you, know it's. Interesting there's always going to be some people who whenever some big thing, happens is going to be, like all, right we're going to do, this but in a, bigger more out of a more important. Way so let's, see in twenty, thirteen someone was able to clone human, embryos, but as Doctor greeley explained to, me other developments like different stem cell research and fibroblasts for these therapeutic, uses
that kind of took the pressure off the cloning. Question, so you, know the science world at large kind of focused on this this kind of research because it's not as clouded with, like, okay you're trying to make a whole different race of, people like, yeah you, know it's like it's, like, okay we're doing this purely for you, know these purposes of you, know more medicinal sorts of.
Things embryonic cloning is essentially making a, twin, Right, Yeah hank, explained, like we are all clones essentially as far as the, Process so it's a matter of just doing it kind of out of, it yeah, exactly and then like identical twins are naturally. Clones, yeah because it's just a matter of the cell splitting at the right time and then it just too too human developing at the same. Time that's basically the process that these people have.
Been trying to just, do you, know unofficially.
Exactly, YEAH i, See so that makes it a lot more. Sense it's like cloning at the conception stage versus what a lot of these conspiracy theories, are which is that today you could clone me m and then LIKE i would grow at an accelerated rate in a tank or something and then come out like a two weeks. Later well, yeah cause, again and you Know i'd mentioned this, before but, YEAH i. ASKED i was, like, well the problem with, cloning if you were trying to solve the person would
be you'd need to do it when they're. Born, backup BECAUSE i was, like, okay, Well paul McCartney or, Something, well there's some level of you, know musical talent or
something that is probably. Genetic, yeah but a lot of it is probably circumstance and obviously being around the right, people so it'd be very, difficult OR i wouldn't put my money on being able to re Remake paul McCartney and hope that he's going to be a Successful it is, interesting Like William Shatner this Is So, random was like the host of a kind of an unsolved mysteries type show that's On netflix, now and they did an episode
about twins and they interviewed these two twins were separated at, birth and the like similarities between their lives were just so insanely, deep like that they had that they bought the same make and model car the year of the, car that their wives had the same. Names like, now a lot of it probably is, coincidence but LIKE i wonder with The paul McCartney, example like maybe if they cloned him and he grew up In america, instead he would still be like a number one, artist but with
An american style music or. SOMETHING i don't, mean it's you, know it's a great what.
IF i SUPPOSE i feel like WHEN i was a, kid because When dolly, HAPPENED i would have been like seven eight years, old and in my mind it was definitely like they put the sheep in the machine and then that's what she came out of the. Machine, Right, yeah that was the cartoon. VERSION i feel like The simpsons did it a bunch of, times, like, oh for, sure Cloned bart and it was just like a million clones would pop out of the. Machine AND i THINK i thought that that was what cloning was for a
very long. TIME i do not. Know and this just makes so much. Sense it's like so much less mysterious when you are talking about just the very basic science of. It it's still incredible and, amazing but it's, Like, OKAY i get that a lot more than some kind of special plasma machine that you, go, yeah.
Like a THREE d printer, Essentially, yeah. Exactly AND i, asked, like why you, know why haven't you know aside from now obviously there's laws and all these, things but, like is there something about humans that makes it so difficult to clone? Us and he said kind of how Before dolly they were like maybe mammals can't be clone just too.
Complicated for whatever, reason we can't find the right. Combo that seems to be also a lot of it with, humans where it's, like, one we don't want to necessarily go so, far so we're we're not going to push, it or we.
Can't we can't.
Legally, yeah and also it's a matter of the cost would be so, high the cost not being, money but just, like, yeah you might make a lot of really messed up people who won't survive or anything, else and that brings up a whole other host of.
Questions, ACTUALLY i.
Feel like people are really playing with fire because as a lot of times these clones turn out to be evil as.
Far as the risk might not be worth. It, no let me let me play one more clip on kind of the ethical concerns from, him and then let's wrap up and kind of talk about why why we are so fascinated by.
This so the ethical concerns around human cloning really fall into only two different. Buckets one is a more absolute something man was not intended to. Do we shouldn't mess with ourselves in this. Way this is Not god's. Will, interestingly this is one of those areas where the political spectrum is a. Circle so you've got conservatives who say it's Not god's.
Will you've got ultra liberals who, say, well it's not. Natural it's not evolution's.
Will it's Not darwin's, will which shows the misunderstanding of evolution In.
Darwin but it's it's certainly not, natural at least not in, humans not in.
Mammals add to that the fact that your manipula human embryos and you're going to end up killing a lot of human embryos in the research or with leftover, embryos and that is viewed by many people as murdering. Babies not by majority of the, country but a substantial chunk of the, country and several states think that destroying embryos is murdering. Babies so that's one set of. Concerns and those would, say, no it's just. Wrong it doesn't, matter
there's no two ways about. It the other side focuses more on not is the process right or, wrong but what would the likely consequences? Be so what's wrong with cloning humans to make? Babies and there everyone still agrees it's too. Risky you, KNOW i care about dead, puppies BUT i care about dead babies a lot more THAN i care about dead. Puppies so we don't know how safe it would be with. Humans how would you ever know how safe it would be with, humans you'd have
to try it in. Humans so safety is a, big big, question and so far everybody thinks it's a it's a deal. Killer one can imagine a research program that would give you enough confidence that you'd, say, okay you can try, this but no one seems to be working along those, lines in part because there seems to be no really great reason to clone. Humans and that's the second. ARGUMENT i, mean one argument is it's. Unsafe the other argument is why?
Bother, yeah there you get a taste of kind of lots of the questions being around this kind of why overall it's been basically shut down as a. Thing, YEAH i ought to say is as far as we, know there have been no grown human clones to. Debunk you, know you guys can calm, Down. DEVIN i don't know if you're convinced, yet but you, Know i'll hook you up With hank and you guys can chat it.
Out, yeah we'll.
SEE i would be shocked if there were human, cloneses but they wouldn't tell us if there were no.
Exactly of, Course stanford is, obviously you, know bought off by Big. Clone so there, hasn't to our, knowledge been a cloned human that has then grown. Up but it seems like the technology is. Possible it's a thing that could happen if there were not so many hurdles or. Obstacles not THAT i think those hurdles are obstacles shouldn't be, there but, like it seems like they could essentially do this if if they wanted, to they being like the
world's leading. Scientists, YEAH i don't think it's something that's, impossible just like the same way they thought maybe the sheep couldn't be cloned and then.
Was it's a matter of.
A lot and a lot and a lot of. Trial but, yeah it seems like that same PROCESS i think in theory would work for. Humans so then for the conspiracy theorists who believe this, stuff you know that that's an easy leap to. Make it's, Like, okay someone is cloning somewhere and.
It's just a.
Secret, originally at the beginning of this, EPISODE i thought it wasn't even possible to do it for, humans SO i could see kind of where the conspiracy theorists are coming. From of COURSE i don't agree or believe, that but but, yeah the technology, like you, know it kind of makes. Sense we're going to take one more quick, break and when we're, back we're going to discuss why we're so
attracted to these clone. Theories doing all this and thinking about it and both the kind of moral red lines and otherwise you wonder kind of why these are such reoccurring.
Trips we're talking.
About much more recent history twenty sixteen as a kind of, peak but also obviously you go, back you, know fifty fifty years more and people are talking about this and it's kind of a recurring, thing AND i wonder why that. Is do you guys have any any theories on kind of what draws us to this?
IDEA i would think that thing at least would be, like for, EXAMPLE i remember when people were Saying Kanye west was, cloned and that was in like twenty twenty, three and it does feel like this like cope kind of thing where it's, Like, okay he did a bunch of shit THAT i didn't think he would, do and so what's an easy. Explanation he's the evil clone of,
himself you. Know and SO i think that there's this very easy way to whether it be like a doppelganger or it be even a, reptilian but like this body swap idea where you can just, say if SOMEONE i like is doing SOMETHING i don't, like or even if SOMEONE i don't like is doing something, good well that's actually still evil because they have these evil. Intentions so it's like this really easy way to like morph the person who is in your crosshairs for whatever reason into
either being good or. Bad he's not what you.
Want, YEAH i guess it's kind of just like being possessed by the devil or some dan or something, REALLY i mean in just a religious sense of like you're doing this wrong because you're being tempted by something, else and essentially that's what the clone is, doing or whoever is making the clone and swapping out these people or that sort of.
Thing.
Yeah, YEAH i would also say, that like many other conspiracy theories THAT i feel like so many of them are rooted in a just a massive kind of distrust for governments or, institutions and then it just becomes so easy for you to believe that some incredibly nefarious stuff is going on if you already don't trust those kind of. Organizations if that makes, Sense, yeah brings.
SOME i would say, order like it's, like you, know people are, Complex like you, Know chelsea's talking about The kanye, EXAMPLE i saw the opposite of like now That kanye is going on as you, know Like.
Jewish apology tour where he's like a.
Little bit more, chill and now people are, saying, oh now this is actually a. Clone, yeah the real one when ye sit down and do this and go back when their.
Work you can choose which one of those stories, exactly.
Yeah, Everyone and it gives order to a thing that it's like kind of, confusing doesn't really make.
Sense you don't have a lot of context for.
Right these people aren't spending time With, kanye they aren't spending time with these. Politicians they don't understand why horrible things are happening in the, world and it's easy to be, like, oh it's. Clones you, know it's. Clones these people are,
Evil this is all. Conspiracy it seems like there was no order to, it and it seems like like like the world is just so, unpredictable but behind the, scenes there's so much order to, it and like the world is predestined to be this way because these people are.
Pulling the pup the shrinks behind you, know closed.
DOORS i mean it really is just the perfect example of like every conspiracy, theory if things are not what they. Seem, yes it's just like a perfect one to one of the heart of conspiracy. Theory AND i think that's why it endoors.
Too m. H, Yeah i'm sure this is Gonna, yeah it will, endure And i'm sure in thirty years people will be sitting around podcasting about you, know the next round of clones will be replaced, probably, so, yeah our clones we do a. Little if our podcast gets a little more, popular they're changing this. Out, yep Time kaleidoscope fires, us but they've been growing clones the whole.
Time would we know we were the? Clones that's a great.
Question we have to give like a code word or signal that if you ask us this and we don't respond in the right, way that's.
How you know it's the.
Clone it's that thing Where, yeah but person's like pointing the gun or the laser and being, like who is, it which? One this one or this? One shoot say the right, thing say the secret.
Thing because in modern in modern day cloning, capabilities the clone would not have the memories of the Original no right.
Now, yeah they have to study.
Up, yeah they're going to be listening to all these. Podcasts, yeah like all, right this is a stance on.
This, yeah just like eminem.
Those, hey hey.
Than no such thing as a production of kaleidoscope. Content our executive producers are Kid osboarded Man. Gestakidur the show is created By Manny, Fidel Noah, friedman And Devin. Joseph theme and credits song By Manny. Fidel mixing is By Steve. Bone our guests this week Are Chelsea Weber smith And Professor Henry. Greeley check Out chelsea's, Show American hysteria wherever you get your podcasts and On instagram At American hysteria, podcast and you can Visit No Such thing dot show
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