Wentz trade & Big Ben drama with Dameshek

today would have been forty seven for him. And that that phrase we heard off the top, that don't confront me, that that is like my I have heard that in my head like many times per day, um, before west past and since um it's a great it's a great philosophy. Does that Does that really have anything to do with me? No, I'm not gonna really worry. He embraced that. I also think it's pretty amazing that the two scientists were born

on the same date. I mean, there's something going on there, um from like a horoscope angle you two like to to get into it, um. And there's a reason that I couldn't be farther from being a scientist based only and in honor of west like when Greg makes and this is for Mark, you and I as we go proceed forward into the great unknown, when Greg does say ridiculous things like Mason Rudolph had the best quarterback game for the Steelers in twenty like that's when West would

have pushed back and told Greg that he's crazy. To honor West, We've got to make sure we pushed back on Greg so that doesn't go unchecked. Well, you're right, and I think I was just in a stunt, left in a stunned silence when I heard that Mason Rudolph business. I don't know if that's like at least what a sanuary with like a hot take or something. If you if you looked at the PFF grades even they would they would pretty much be with me that it was.

It was right there. We do have a guest today that could say if that was a terrible I'll take. I'm just saying I feel like people didn't watch that Nathan Rudolph game. He played well for that one game. I'm not saying he's a great quarterback. Okay, now, yes, Greg teased it. It is Greg's birthday. It would have

been West's birthday. Just still is West's birthday, and why not as a gift to both West wherever he is right now, uh and to the listeners for the first time back on our airwaves since he sadly left us, it is Dave Damashek joining the Around the NFL podcast. And you know this, West is way into this because one of UH West's favorite NFL media people of all time, absolutely the great, legendary Dave Damn Check. What's up? Check? Heroes? Rick?

What a pleasure. Let's start with a little pushback, Like you just mentioned, They're like, did did I hear that? Right? Greg Rosenthal just likened himself to Jackie Robinson. I'm basically him. You think you don't you think? Don't you think of your year? You know, your birthday year in the in the in the mind of like athletic numbers, like Larry Bird that was a nice year, thirty three. You got

to that. That's That's That's who I'm going to try to model myself after this year, Jackie Robinson, if nothing else, for real, the gift, the gift, the gift of following sports obsessively. One of the fringe benefits is is that it allows you to remember every phone number. I do I can't remember any phone number if you give it to me just once, because I'll just be like Clay Matthews Junior and uh in the iceman George Gerwan. Yeah that's the last word digital. Okay, Yeah, that's how I

can piece together all things. Yes, happy birthday, uh to the boss and to West of course, yes, and uh you know Check of course he is now um the host of the Minus three podcast that covers Northeast sports and also the Extra Points podcast which everybody knows what cousin sal and Dave's a thunder, which is another d hiatus. I mean enough at some point, either you know, uh, do the show or don't do the show Dave, but we all love that as well. Um, well, what's new? Check?

And And the reason why reached out to you is because, yes, Dave. You know, Dave's a funny guy. We all Dave's funny, He's always got the quips. But Check also sneaky, insightful fella, and I really thought that, you know, with Check, this is actually two weeks to the day now that we lost West. I would love to hear your thoughts on

the man, Chris Wesley. Check. Well, Um, you know, first of all, I really do think and I understand that, you know, the tragedy, there's no work around of of how horrible this is for for Keyshan, for and for Link and for you guys and everybody who cared about

West obviously, But um, I I really do choose. You know, I grew up with Mo Damnishek the nurse and uh you know who who had been around a fair amount of stuff, and my old man as well, and I really did take note early in life of like my mother sort of chose to celebrate in these tells, in

these awful moments. Um And I really do you know, I'm really happy for West that he got to have the last decade or thereabouts that he had with you guys, and so I you know, I really do say, be proud Greg Rosenthal for for convincing him to do what he kind of lived by, which was to was to you know, I, I it sounds glaber, it sounds like a joke, but for real, you convinced him to leave

his safe space and move out here. And you know, West was for all the lovely and accurate things that have been said about him in the last few days here. I mean, you know, he was idiosyncratic enough that he really lamented when he got out here, like, I don't know if I belong out here kind of vibe and this is this is weird. I mes see island, you know the islands where it's those are real people people all both were out here, big boy and all and all of that, and and look where it landed for

all of you guys. And you're to be you know, you know, I hope you can relish amidst all this. Uh, you know, this obvious awfulness of of you know, what you guys did, and and how the quality of his

life the last eight years. I suspect is uh is right up there for him, with all the years that he had, and as much as he loves his family and his brothers and you know, his his his red legs and his his his island down there in Georgia and everything else, I think that you know, it was apparent to anybody who interacted with him over the last few years that that he somehow, ironically after all this, you know, he didn't he didn't love Los Angeles, and

he didn't love the vibe, and he felt like an outsider. And I really do feel like he was as at home and found his real home with you guys as much as anything and individually with you, like with all respect to Keisha. His first soul mate in Los Angeles was Mark sessler Um. And I really, you know, I went there just to be an onlooker after you guys won your softball crown, whichever one it was. I just

went there to to bask in the reflected glory. And I, I mean, the seminal image for me is is, uh, ironically, two grown men after winning a dumb softball thing with their arms around each other. I don't think I took that photograph, but I was standing right behind those two when that photo was taken, and it was lovely and

indicative of of the late night you had. And I I'm waxing obviously, and interrupt me at any point, please, but you know, I just he was he was really oddly or he stood out in the twenty one century. To me, he was anomalous, and it was like, oh, what he is is a retro kind of human being. He is like something from a black and white western movie or something like. He was like Gary Cooper in

his straightforward purpose. I mean, and if his purpose was having fun at two thirty in the morning with Cessler and bend in the elbow. It meant something. And I really mean that there was no there was no sort of throwaway moment with west Everything, even fun um meant

something to him. And and I know because I interacted with him, and you know, I maintained the text chain with him this last you know, handful of months and everything, and and almost without feel he would mention the sense of purpose that you guys gave him and the fund that it it meant for him amidst all this, Uh, not the god awful stuff at the hospital and everything else, the fact that he could interact with you and and and uh have a smile as a result of it.

I I really do. I'm I'm it's terrible, it's it's heartbreaking. Those are the obvious things. But in the right now, I think you guys should, if it makes sense, to be proud of what you guys forged together and uh and you know, to to be happy that you directly Rick included delivered you know, some of the best moments of Westling's life. And look where it led. I mean, ultimately he was Is this a message for other people to take chances and and all that sort of thing.

I mean, he moved from his safe space he loved, He lived on an island, he loved it. He moved out here to rugged, you know, weird l A and felt like a foreigner and looked where it wound up eight years later. You know, I wish he had another five decades, but you know, to to enjoy it. But but the last five or six we're you know, more living than a lot of people get to do. It would have been rewriting history to now say, oh, West loved l A once he got here. You know, he

loved it. Even as late as last year he would say that l A is weird. Didn't necessarily love it, but there is that that element of it. And check. I know you, um obviously are not a native to southern California, although you've been out here a long time now. None of us are. I mean, Greg Mark, myself all come from the northeast, Ricky from the northeast, West Cincinnati, Tybee here, Uh, Colleen from Philadelphia, and Gonzo from Philadelphia,

I mean Henry from England for Christ's sake, uh. And we all came here without family, and we built out our own Um, West Coast, Southern California family here. Um, and that's why you know it. It wasn't West, wasn't just losing a colleague or even a friend. It felt like we lost a family member because we really did, because that's that's what we did, um, in coming together. Um. And I'm just to your mother, that's a great way to look at it, that we celebrate that we had

that time together. Um. She just was not I do remember her. You know, you look around it awful, you know, funerals and everything and people crying, and I'd look across and and my mother's out over there cracking wise with people, you know, like like you know that with that, you know to to try and um celebrate the person a little bit. And you know, I heard you guys the

other last week. I guess your your first show back. Um, and uh yeah, I mean it just there was something too that with with West, that there a sense of authority and interacting with him, and you guys talk about the validation you get from him agreeing with your football opinions. That was a real weird thing for it was real and true for me as well. And that the other

thing with him was as far as that goes. Making him laugh was what I mean, you know, for uh, someone like me when when when West laugh, that was it was one of the more delightful Making all human beings are not equal, you know, making all human beings laugh is not And getting a laugh from him, you knew was sincere. He was. He was not uh um placating you with his life. You know. It's a fascinating man, you know, and and you know his football love and but his love of books and great to talk about

music with. And no matter how how how much we disagreed on it, it was always a compelling back and forth. And you know, and and and like I said, he had this Gary Cooper quality that was funny, that would give way um once under the cloak and night and a couple of drinks in did he became like a fifteen year old who had had his first beer. You know, he became giddy. And that that was also a delightful way to interact with the West and and uh, those

two sides of him. But yeah, I mean, you know, listen to talking about football or otherwise with him bumping him into bumping into him in the hallway. But it was always good. But one thing that really came through was that the comfort he had with you guys. You guys were his like you said you were they you know, people say stuff like that, but you were really his

brothers and uh and his family. And shout out to the first sports couple of Philadelphia for for you know, helping um garis those kids as well, for for West and for um for our pal the pie Queen Deaker and everybody else. Really it really transcended. You know, it doesn't happen all the time, but the the that was a neat little group that was put together over the last you know, five to ten years, and you know it was it was fun certainly to be a part of that. Not not the um say that that doesn't

carry forward, but obviously West definitely. The point is is that West really uh embrace that as much as anybody because like hands who says, we're all from somewhere else. But for some reason it came across it. West was like, what kind of place is this? What are we doing out here? Isn't the way people do things? And I mean people are wait crazy, Let's get the get back

to the real people. The kind of vibe and he transformed into There was no better home for Chris Westling anywhere on the face of the earth than sitting with you guys, chopping it up and laughing. Whether it was being recorded into a microphone or uh in the wee hours of the a M. It was always it was always compelling and fun and and nice to to be a part of or be around. I would say, also, check that you know one of you. I love the way that you noted about making him laugh. We've talked

about that a little bit. And one of the first places I thought that he started to feel at home was in our newsroom, which was very communal back in the era, and you were someone just because I would I sat three or four feet away from him for a billion days, and when you would come in, and anyone that has been in our newsroom knows that with Dave Damaschek comes in, I mean things change the energy to there's there's There was one thing that I think when you I thought that you really won west Over

with your daring do because we were also at times, depending on what executives were in there, it was a

very it could be suddenly very serious. But you know, if you watch the NFL network, they crack into the moment where like a newsreader is, you know, telling you about breaking news, and in the background you can see all of us Jabroni's typing away on our keyboards and stuff, and Check would do this thing where he'd get about twenty thirty yards away from the newsreader, but he'd be in in the background you could see him, and he do that old trick where you pretend to be walking

downstairs by bending your legs and literally on NFL network there is a grown man um walking downstairs that don't exist in West could not contain himself at that time. I remember that moment, and he also, I know you do his impression, but he loved when you would do impressions of Greg and dan Um. I'm excluding myself because I'm pure and you can't do one of them. That shows. Yeah, I think it was well said Check with the brotherhood almost that he was used to having all these brothers

around him. That was what was like, that was his comfort zone and so he sort of created that and was part of that um with us. But yeah, yeah, you're Tybee impression it it was it was a fine line. But you're lucky that he uh he loved it, like because you just cracked him up so much. Uh, it's like, I don't sound like that to be on the right side of that line. And then my impression was actually an impression of Check and doing the impression of West.

So it was essentially just a watered down version of the same thing. I also like, I also like since you brought it up, Mark, Not to get too off track, but when Dave would dropped by the news room, we had a there was a deeply unpleasant shadowy league figure um that was in the newsroom for a period of time. Uh, that could not stand when Dave came by, and they were they were diametric opposites as human beings. You need

to be more specific. Although I think I know there's so many this ella, you know who it is, right this SLF would come out and he would see Dave and he would just you could you could see the eye, the eye roll like almost coming out of his head when Shack was around. And that's and it felt good because well, I think also he knew that not a shred of business would be conducted when when Scheck was making the rounds. And I think even maybe sometimes Greg would be like guys, get get back to work. We

have like fourteen posts to write. It's like, but check is here. Oh what what will the world do without updated pro football information? That listen, we're all cheating wife here. Friends, you know that. Why are you throwing a wet blanket? I'm the fact that everybody gathered in that space's cheating wife. By definition, we are getting paid to talk about football and on some level, and and that some ne're do

well couldn't get that straight in his head. He is not my problem and I was not going to bend a need to that non sense. He still thought he was in some like newsroom in Dallas in November nineteen, because no, dude, this is football dating the Jaguars committing to Teal is their home jersey, were not and to put a button on its check before we move on, because we got to talk about a big trade evolving another star quarterback in the NFL. We got to talk

about what's going on with check Steelers. We're gonna get to that as well. But West, you mentioned Gary Cooper twice, and uh, as I've asked by way of Tony soprano Mark many times, whatever happened to Gary Cooper? Turns out he was right next to us the whole time, the whole time. Um, all right, let's get to it. Let's do some football talk. We got check here. It is West's birthday. And by the way, great job by the NFL Media digital team, Patrick Crawley, Um, Sarah Parsons, John Marvel,

the whole gang, Ali Bun Purry. Um. They are rolling out in honor of West's forty seventh birthday or what would have been West's forty seventh birthday. Uh, They're they're bringing up on the home page at NFL dot com all of his best work. Uh. And because West was such a gifted storyteller and podcaster. But I mean Evan Silva, who we all love and respect from Rhoda world and now would established the run um he He said on his show recently that he thought that West was maybe

the best sports writer in the country. That's the type of talent West was. So if you go to NFL dot com at any point this weekend and it should be up by the time you get to this, you could read his Houston Oilers feature Love You Blue Ohio River Offense about the Cincinnati UH Bengals and Steve Walsh attack his QB Index pieces, which were incredibly insightful and many times went beyond just basic football UM pieces about

his Patriots coverage during those Super Bowl years. He always had such a great eye for that, his making the lead pieces the series that we did for many years, UM talking about players on the rise. You might not be surprised to learn that West got that it a lot. He wrote a really compelling piece about Steve Smith deserving a spot in the Pro Football Hall of Fame. Just a ton of great stuff, and they're gonna populate some

podcast stuff down the line as well. But if you want to UM learn more about Chris Wesling the writer, NFL dot com has got you covered. I was telling you guys real quick too that like if you're just if you're an obsessive, go find a random West Um newser on like an arrest or suspension I would take. I would take his news items and print them out and go read them to figure out what the f I was doing on that front. Because he was such a decisive UM author when he would take on any subject.

It's I love what NFL dot com has done here. Um. All right, let's get to the big story the Indianapolis Colts. I mean, we did the QB Carrousel game a couple of weeks ago, not for nothing. Old Zeuser had this one right, But it wasn't necessarily a shot in the dark. It felt like it always made sense. The Indianapolis Colts have acquired Carson Wentz from the Philadelphia Eagles in exchange for a round pick and conditional second round pick. That's

important here. That conditional second rounder becomes a first rounder if Wentz plays three quarters of the Cult snaps for um and the team makes the playoffs. So there's a couple of things there. But there's a good chance, or a decent chance I should say that this does become a first rounder. But on the surface, Greg Rosenthal, the Cults just acquired a guy that not so long ago was viewed as a superstar level talent a quarterback, and they to me upgrade from an aging Phil Rivers. What

do you think about this deal? I think Carson Wentz as a lot um to prove that he could even be as good as Philip Rivers in I don't I think they're taking a risk. It's not a huge price their pain, but it's something I'm shocked that the Eagles got that much at this point. I mean, Carson Wentz wasn't just bad last year. He was like one of the two or three worst quarterbacks in the league. There's not a lot of precedent for anyone playing that poorly

during his prime. You can make a lot of excuses for it, um and and being like a really big difference making quarterback. Then you look at the rest of his career, I would say, maybe one of those years has he been significantly you know, better than average? Uh? And so I think, Okay, you're giving up a second you know this guy. Uh, it could upgrade to a first you're giving up a third round pick. It's worth a shot because you know him and they believe in him,

and it's a great situation for him. But I don't know, like it to me to expect him to be better than average, I think is probably expecting too much. I mean, I would say this though, I feel like he is going to a roster that in a couple of ways reminds me of the Eagles Super Bowl roster, uh, when when he did play so well. And I'm with you, Greg, I mean to watch what happened to Carson Wentz last season. Um, it was you know vision really a four month car

crash and and he lost all his confidence. He seemed broken to me from the neck up. And I don't think he and Doug Peterson UM, that relationship clearly was running out of time. I love him being paired back with Frank Reig again, just in terms of the fit of where he could have gone. Someone that knows him, someone that got the best out of him, probably was the better head coach. Um hidden in a at a

coordinator level there. Uh. I think it's a good environment and they've got a great offensive line, so you can see I could I say the ceiling would be comeback player of the year. Um. The floor is this is an unfixable quarterback. But I I don't believe he's unfixable. I think this is this is If this works, Chris Ballard will look very very smart. Um. From the Eagles side, what are we doing here? This team to me feels

like a year and a half ago. Everyone's you know, do you know, song and dance about their analytics driven front office and all this other business. I mean you look what they invest it to get Carson Wentz, what they ultimately paid him the incredible amount of dead money that they're taking on to let him go, which is the new trend in the NFL. Let's get rid of these guys and pay for it after um. I think a lot has to be pointed at Howie Roseman and

the Eagles. Howie Roseman, do you still have the Carson Wentz poster in your office or have you taken that down? M Are you surprised that they got that like no one else made an offer? Like? I think both things can be true. The Eagles signing went to that contract and the Rams signing Golf to that contract were catastrophic mistakes in a very similar way that I think will affect how teams approached signing guys early. Because both of those guys would have ended their rookie contract with the

option year this year. They didn't have to pay any of it, you know. With all that said he was, it was like it was a tire fire. If there wasn't Frank Wik out there, I don't think they would have gotten anyone because his contract is just as onerous as goffs. They were about to be guarantee like he had an option in his contract where they were about to be guaranteed to pay him seventy over three and

fifty five over to all this stuff. So I think they're probably in this point mildly relieved that they got rid of him um at this price. But it's still kind of a catastrophe what what happened over the last few years. And they're gonna have to come up with so many solutions on a aging roster so quickly, or Howie Roseman could lose his job because he's not the only one that's gonna be gone. Alshon Jeffrey's definitely gone, Malik Jackson's definitely gone to Sean Jackson, Uh is definitely gone.

There's more I'm forgetting about, Like they are gonna be spinning that wheel, and they have a lot a lot to fix um and and Ballard puts himself on the line a little bit too, you know. They maybe it's a one year thing with Wentz if it doesn't work out um, but they need to find a left tackle. They need to make it work with Winz because I think the bar of Philip Rivers is sneaky high. Like Carson Wentz in the last time we thought he was okay, he wasn't as good as up Rivers, he was pretty

bad then to two year. That's a two year sample size. So let me let me just say, I think you're overvaluing as I always feel like you did Philip Rivers, and undervaluing Carson Wentz here. I think I'm saying, look at his twenty nineteen season on balanced, just the last four four games, the whole season, Maybe it's something you got to go back and take another look. I thought he was excellent in twenty nineteen, especially down the stretch, UM taking a really beat up Eagles team to the playoffs.

UM twenty seven touchdown, seven picks, four thousand York passer rating over a hundred. I thought he was a franchise quarterback in twenty nineteen. Seventeen was an m v P year before he blew out his knee, and I understand you can't take out the health issues with him. By the way, Tom Brady was gonna win the m v P that year. I keep hearing everyone said Carson Wentz was the m v P. Tom Brady was winning that m v P this year. I just keep hearing that,

But he was playing at that level. It was it was one too, but I keep hearing everyone say, he was on pace for forty five hundred yards forty five touchdowns, he led the league in touchdown percentage, He lead the league in QBR that season. He was an absolute m VP candidate. But the injuries are a real thing obviously here to keep in mind, and also how bad last

year was. But I think it's well worth the gamble check to bring him in because the Cults are a win now team and if Frank Bright, if Frank Bright's there, I don't like the trade with Frank right there. I think it's well worth the gamble and I think you could pay off big yeah. I mean if you do the math on that. And what changed for Carson Wentz.

The thing that stands out more than anything else is the departure of Frank rich and it became clear that Peterson wasn't the wasn't the magic factor in that uh on that coaching staff. It was rich Um. So I guess that makes sense. And like the outsized egos of starting NFL QBS, offensive coordinators and head coaches also have an ego that tells him I can fix this guy. I know he looked bad, but I'm the one who can fix him. I guess We'll have to wait and

see how that goes. I do think in the meantime that I mentioned I mentioned the swagger that just about all these guys have. I think it's very weird. In the last twenty four hours or so, I've already seen a couple of um sort of boastful, weirdly, sort of proud of themselves media members from Philadelphia. I don't get the math on what Philadelphia is a sports town. Thanks they're doing that. They're so proud of their ability to chase away some high end athletes, like hey, Philly eight

for everybody. It's a tough town, toughest sports town fan baseball not let you go like well great, well, I mean, so you're gonna scare away some people who might otherwise thrive in your sports town for you, Well done, You've You've done it again, Philadelphia. Yeah. I don't get the anti Wenz thing in Philadelphia. He helped you win your freaking first Super Bowl ever. He was massive in winning your Super Bowl. And there's this weird thing that I

totally agree with. Right, it's very straight. I get the last few years. But if somebody had told you, like this guy's gonna set you up to win a Super Bowl that your backup ends up finishing up, you would think you'd be grateful to him for the rest of your life. Give me a break. I just think that the obviously the Colts are as when now is as just about any roster you look at or I don't know if win now applies, but what is the best roster if you remove the quarterback from the equation the

culture near or at the top of that list. So it makes sense that you want a guy who can make him go because you know, I really think they had a Super Bowl run in them and if not for a player too, um that you know, they might have at least gotten to Kansas City. Um. But in in our you know, I talked about QB saturation, this is not anymore. There are more viable starting quarterbacks out

there than there are starting gigs. Is Carson Wentz definitely the best guy that they could get to fill that slot in in the real world, not not pieing the sky fantastical like did you just get the Shawn Watson? Why don't they do that? Like because because Texans are going to trade him to you in the short term, Is Carson wants the best guy they could have gotten. I'm not sure, but maybe as I look around, is Russell Wilson really gonna get dealt the way? I don't know. Otherwise, draft,

I don't know to that point. Check uh and the and the Colts. They kind of put it out there that they were looking for a veteran. They're out of it, they're out of this business now. But why don't we spend the QB carousel here, um and and check in on these other quarterbacks? Now? The market is not settled, but we have some movement here. Stafford goth wentz um

a report, Jimmy g there's another option. The Colts had their um a lot of smoke about the end of the Niners and Jimmy g Era he has fifty one million do over the final two years of his contract. Not guarantee though, So maybe the Patriots make a play. Sam Donald another another veteran that hypothetically the Cults could have been interested in. Report out there today UH that he could be available for a second round pick. We've been hearing that forever. Deshaun Watson. We're at a stalemate

there obviously. Right now, we don't know what's going on. Keep an eye on the Raiders with Mariota and Derek Carr. One of those guys could and probably will be moved. Uh and then of course Big Ben uh da. I love the buzz that now that that this uh just this week is the first time I've started to hear like, could Roethlisberger play for another team? You know, if you drop him onto the Broncos? Would that be a crazy Is that really that crazy that he would make them go?

I don't know. Um, yeah, I think that rot with Roethlisberger. I feel like I didn't get getting to doing this so that we could talk about about math. I don't I don't understand macro economics, and I don't care about math as a fun the mental um course in life. But um, as far as I understand it, and scientists, please step in here, Rosenthal and let me know where I'm wrong here. The cap is not gonna be I mean that the hit is never and it never was

gonna be forty one million. As I've said all along, they'll presumably drop him all the way down the nineteen million, which is as low as they can get it. So nineteen million is the hit. Ergo the the aforementioned fantastical solutions at quarterback aren't real. Deshaun Watson's not landing in Pittsburgh it given that it's a nineteen million dollar cap hit, and they're not gonna none of the high end qbs that are gonna go near the top of the first

are gonna be available in reality. Why don't you just roll with Roethlisberger anyway? This this it's time to reset in Pittsburgh. It's to what there's not? There isn't Who are you putting in there? Someone must start a quarterback? And what do you get out of Mason Rudolph that you don't get out of Ben Roethlisberger in one other than can Mason Rudolph Hackett is the long term solution

spoiler alert. He can. However, Right was right. He did play really well and it was kind of eye opening for those of us who are who were who were hypothesizing that Roethlisberger round about the Washington game as they were undefeated, kind of realized, like, I can't keep taking these shots. This offensive line is junk. For the next five weeks, were safely into the playoffs. We're gonna win the division now after we beat the Ravens. I think there was a calculation. And I kind of still stand

by this that he made a calculation. I'm getting the ballet on my hands no matter what, and I don't care. And then it started to slip away from them. And then he flipped the switch in the second half against the Colts and turned it on, and all of a sudden, there he was pump fake and throwing, uh, throwing forty five yard passes on a rope, and and so on. And then the Browns game and that well that the Mason Rudolph game happened, and I thought, what in hell,

this is a little this is weird. That makes in Rudolph is having uh pushing it. Then then Roethlisberger was, and then the Cleveland game. Inexplicable that first that first quarter was an absolute atrocity, but it seemed explicable to me. I don't think we've had a chance to um the tables have turned. We didn't. He might ended Big Ben's Steeler's career. My my thing is just do the Steelers

want him? I get what everything is. Yeah, so they're general manager Kevin Culvert said this week, you know, it's very ambivalent about it. He's on the rothber right now. The owner, Rooney said earlier in the off season, essentially he's not coming back unless he takes a pay cut. Ben says publicly, I'll pay for I'll play for whatever

you want. Now, it's very possible, especially knowing Ben Roethlisberger, that he's saying that and his agent is not um just lying down and being like that behind the scenes, and they're like, if you play any hardball with us, we're just gonna cut you. Like that's the thing. They are ready to cut him. They they have already made a decision. He's gone. Uh. If he doesn't want to

play ball, they might have already made a decision. He's gone. Anyways, And I think they answer your question, David, like why do that? And yeah, you could reduce the capital. Well, you'd be pushing some of that cap pay into the future years. The Patriots decided to take all their medicine in one year, that's what the Steelers do this year. Would kind of make sense because right now they're like

thirty million over the cap. Uh, and their left tackle is a free agent, Marcus Founty, their center is a free agent. They might want to consider cutting their potential future Hall of Fame guard David de Castrow is coming off a terrible year. Uh, they have a lot of problems. They might cut you know, one of their starting cornerbacks. There, there's a lot of issues in Pittsburgh and they might just be like, let's just take our medicine. Now, see

what happened. What does that? But my pushback on that is what does that get you any of these big free agent decision? Nothing now? Nothing now. But it's basically you're thinking that we don't believe it's saying we don't leave in Ben Roethlisberg anymore. Right, that, but you can kick it down the road. But for relative nickels and dimes to kick small portions of that contract into three that as the cap goes up, it it will be marginal,

a marginal hit against them. But the again, the crazy kind of thing is like, yeah, but if they just if they just blow up, if they just stink it up. This is what people keep missing. They cannot be the Jaguars, They cannot do with the Jets or anyone else. Is done in tank because Cam Hayward and t. J. Watt and Minka Fitzpatrick are not going to allow that to happen. They went in eight dight with Duck Hodgenes you think they're gonna whether you think gonna go too and fourteen

there is no world in which that happens. So this nonsense about well if they really stink in one, then they'll get a high pick. And by the way, I am big, like I said on QB saturation thanks to the pipeline that exists from football every springtime not as juicy as the last three or four QB classes have been. So this thing of like that, just blow it this year so that you get who Spencer, what are we

talking about? What isn't checked? Isn't the move the most straightforward move the Steelers to make a team that was eleven or oh before the wheels came off and has has all this talent that you've referenced that should be ready to go if they can get solid Cuba QB play to go with everything else that you would bring back Big Ben and then just upgrade over Mason Rudolph as somebody that you can turn to, whether it's through the draft or one of these veterans that are you know,

at a discount, and then you give yourself a better safety net and maybe it turns out You're like, you're right that maybe with the Big Bend situation last year he changed his mindset to disastrous results. So you give another give him one more chance to play the guitar, and if he doesn't, you're not turning to Mason Rudolph, just hoping and praying that he's finally the light's gonna finally go on. Well, here's what I'll say about I

think that the move is. I mean that Joe Douglas a couple of weeks ago said something about wanting a first for Sam Donald. I want a lot of things to Um, but I think a second, you know, especially if you can move it paste into into future years like what what the Eagles just got away with with the Colts. If you can get you know, a second or a third in one Joe Douglas wants draft picks. It's not like the Jets are ready to roll in

the and take over the a f C East. They need players, and if they're gonna go at number two with Zack Wilson or Justin Fields, they're gonna purge um Sam Donald. I would think in in in um trade for for a draft pick, that's the answer to me. Get Sam Donald but I think also Rosenthal, I think you're right. I don't think they necessarily want I don't think they have bright eyed thoughts about how great roethlis right one last time, he's gonna turn back into two

thousand and eight Roethlisberg. I don't think they think that, but I think they're they we might have our best option may end up being given the nineteen million dollars that we have to pay him, and it prevents us

from going after some other guys as a result. But if we bring I could see the ego if we've seen these franchise qbs, not like other guys being brought in to replace them, and all that, I could see there being some attempt to thread the needle on the Steelers part to say like, yeah, we want you back Rothinisburger. But Rothinsberger said, I'll take the cap, but you can't bring somebody in to replace me like I you're you're not gonna turn around and then trade to get so.

And so I could see that being part of the equation right now. Um And and also more practically, I don't know, maybe the agent is saying like, yeah, we'll give you, we'll give you a discount we're not. We're not dropping it all the way to nineteen million. And maybe Covert's like, oh, when we when we took your guy at his word that he's gonna go all the

way down, he doesn't care about it. If he's actually us, if he's actually denting our ability to resign, let's say Mike Hilton or Cam Sutton or one of these dbs that they otherwise could make a run at. I could see them bought can get down like, hey, we're playing hardball seven. You want to come back? Great, we understand the situation in one last year, but it's nineteen million.

You're not getting anything more out of this is timely. Actually, I am checking out Twitter UM as we discussed this situation, and this tweet from Will Welch, who is the g Q editor in chief, UM fresh quotes from Ben Roethlisberger in a tel a'll sit down with g Q. Cleveland broke me. They reduced me to tears. Um, to the naked eye. I was no more than a toddler. I still have nightmares about what the Browns accomplished that night,

added the Steelers QB. I've had this recurring dream that when Pittsburgh dumps me, they spend the next twenty five years looking for a functional signal caller. Terrible talons will be used to wipe the tear stained faces of Pittsburgh area children, children who will never learn to read because

they live in Pittsburgh, said Ben. In this dream, Steelers fans would be to get one third the quality of a broken down Mark Malone circle, but they won't come close employing Ham and eggers such as Wally Jingles, Spurgeon Wind two point oh and Jessica Maxwell from Human Resources. End of tweet. So that's that's something that's funny on the GQ front. Look at just shattering the glass ceiling

in the end of Wow. I mean, that's a pretty good gift by g Q there, right, It's not a total shock, Like what about Ben Roethlisberger would tell you that his divorce from the Steelers really the whole end of the rest of his career isn't gonna be incredibly ugly, you know, and with like backbiting and lying and all sorts of stuff. I frankly, I'm looking forward to Ed Bouschett is gonna have some juicy quotes. Well, I'll tell

you that's for sure. And by the way, I don't know if you can see it for anyone looking right now, in honor of most of the nation dealing with snow, I've it's snowing apparently in uh in my home here. The I'm on my crummy computers making it do that. Um yeah, the the Roethlisberger the last few days here

or the last one. It's also he wants to come back and be a part of a winner, and it's it's funny that they keep saying, like, you understand, we're not gonna be good if you come back, and they're really trying to will him today, like it's the guy you don't want coming over, like we're not doing anything. We're you know, we're not We're not gonna have any fun, so Base will not even come over kind of thing.

So they're trying to convince him not to show because why why would they have I guess I think they're having a crisis of confidence of like why do we think we're gonna be better next year? Period that we we finished the season so poorly, and you mentioned the whole like, yeah, you can take his salary cap down, but you can also like cutting him saves twenty million against the cap. There's all this like confusion of there's like there's dead money, and that's true with Carson Wentz,

but it's money when I talk about dead money. Yeah, but ultimate like trading Carson Wentz didn't cost the Eagles anything this year, and you got rid of them, and in cutting Ben Roethlisberger would save twenty million of cap space when they need it. And so bringing him back, even if you lowered it all down like it gets complicated. Your other players might have to go, and they're just like, why do we think that team is gonna be good? We kind of don't so or better, like, we we

need we need someone. We need a quarterback that can be a huge difference maker, and he's probably not that guy, so we should start looking for that guy. I hear all of that. I don't, but none of those individual decisions UM with other free agents are impacted by that. Assuming he does, like I say, goes all right to zero or to to the to the um slimmest of

of cap hits possible. The other thing I will say is, because you know, with Will Welsh, they're doing great work at g Q with UH with getting in the years of some of these qbs. I got in the year of one David Carr, who was the first overall draft pick in two thousand and two and happens to be related to Derek Carr. David Carr assured me one went will work out with Reich. That marriage is perfect too. He said that Derek Carr is definitely staying in Vase.

That is a hundred percent that Gruden is definitely rolling with him in per David Carr, it sounds like the Cults tried to get him. I found that very interesting. A Cults reporter said they called about Car and got a pretty firm sense. So that's that's that's good, that's a good report. It's interesting. He also said that last year during the season, they took four calls asking after Derek Carr and we're turned down three of them from the same organization. And I cannot figure out who it is.

David Carr would not, he said, We'll figure out who would he not take the call from? I don't know, I said Bill Belichick, And that leads me to this. I could see a calling Bill now, who wasn't then I can't figure out. In the middle of and during the season, calling dere a car and getting turned down for it, and I figure out John Gruden has bad blood with it. He wouldn't take the call from but it. I said, would Derek go to New England? And I think that you you want to have your fun with

the demise of the Pittsburgh Steelers. I've had my fun and I'll continue to with your patriots. I can't believe everybody. I can't believe you've genuflected for twenty years to a fraud. Rosenthal pil Fellow check. It's all about the QB this whole time, all the all this insane uh dark ages kind of witchcraft, and this is how we do things. The only way you can win is to is to abide by my work. Do your the soul is, do

your job. I'm a grown man. Let alone, I'm I'm a high end supreme athlete, and and you're reducing to me. Do your job. Just do exactly, would be two dimensional, and do that and in exchange you'll get a Lombardy. Now that it doesn't come along with the Lombardi, who has any value is willing to go up into that mess. I think Matthew Stafford has set the tone and I think it's gonna I really do think this year, this season for the Patriots, it's huge for Bill Belichick. He

knows it. He cares about his place in history, and all of a sudden, if he doesn't win in somebody, he better figure out how to get I don't know, Mac, I mean, how often do you hear, like anyone talk about Vince Lombardi basically pissing down his leg for four years in Washington? No one cares. That's different apples Greg because and we brought this up with Chris Russo when he was on our show right for the super Bowl.

Now that Brady has won that title with the Bucks, unassailable, the legacy, there's no there's no question this guy if there ever was. I mean, the fact that he changed teams in one another title, unbelievable, the goat. Belichick still an all time brilliant mind, arguably the best head coach ever. But when you're talking about you can find proof of that videotape. Look around, these two guys, these two two players,

the player and coach tied forever together. Belichick almost he has to build another big time team before he goes, or that will be attached to the discussion of Bill Belichick, and I know you don't want to hear that, Greg, because you've had so much. I don't think he kee pissed down his leg and all this stuff like the Vince Lombardi didn't know Brady makes it different because it wasn't like bart starwin somewhere else and did something or

however played out with Lombardi. It's just different. You literally don't even know how it played out. Like he embarrassed himself and they were terrible, and literally it's never been brought up just about ever. It doesn't matter. I just don't think that bothers saying. If you understand the difference between Defembarty situation and the Bill Belichick situation, and with Tom Brady involved here, why because Bill Belichick was tied at the hit with Brady, Brady goes somewhere new wins

another title. Vincilbardi got old went to Washington was at the end of the line, it was. It was just a different setup, that's all, but also a totally different era. But Greg, to your point, you said the Patriots took their medicine in one year, So I agree with check that next year if Belichick goes, you know, a soft five and eleven and refuses to get a real quarterback this offseason, thinking he's gonna punk us twice. Well, I mean, I do think that in terms of the talking heads

he's reading takes a huge hit. Do I think that he's actually Joe Philbin in disguise? Utter nonsense? He's a great coach, He's he that's a half measures is he? Is it a talking head situation or do you actually think that it would hurt his legacy if he went out? If Belichick's next, let's say he has four more years and they're all losing seasons, it is an unavoidable point of discussion, and it does affect everything that we would

think about Bill Belichick. But what are I'm stopping the malarkey? Is the idea that oh, actually this is a C minus coach who's behind a great quarter that I will, I will. I'm not on board with that at all. I guess he actually is right, and it is just a talking point. I guess I'm just saying, like, Okay, what does what does that mean? Like? Do I think way differently of Tom Landry or Jimmy Johnson or Bill waltsh like struggling at, you know, doing his thing. It's like,

you don't. I don't know who thinks about these things that. I don't think Bill Belichick does either. I don't think I think he does. He does. You don't think he thinks about it. Probably forty minutes out of every hour. It's still processing that. I think. I think ami list of best though when he did it for the hundred some of those names. He definitely cares about pro football

history and his place in it. And I have talked with people who are relatively close, people who were in his circle over the last twenty years on his team. You can just say, no, I don't know many people. You know. It's like Willie, It's David Carr. That's it. So it's got to be one of those Yeah, I gotta try and take shots and that the name drives here. Man, I'm gonna plow on anyway, um the uh yeah, listen. I've been assured that he definitely cares about this. I

love the idea. One of the great missed opportunities. I don't know what what amount of money it would have cost. Obviously he's willing to do things that humiliate himself witness those subway ads. So I wonder why he wouldn't um put a camera on himself for the four hours of the Super Bowl because that would have been deleted. Would what would have been more fun than watching Belichick? Let it be said, listeners that are gonna now get on me.

I can't believe Dan, he's bringing up Belichick again and ripping bell. I didn't do this. Check brought this up. This one more thing and then I'll be done about this. But I sincerely, I mean, they've obviously dominated the twenty one century, the Patriots UM and as we now try to make sense of it, one other thing that's gonna go against Belichick going forward is it's not the same a f C East. The Bills are a mighty force. I think the Jets have a chance to put things

together pretty quickly, and the Dolphins are are fascinating. Assuming to Uh turns the corner here a little bit, I mean, it is very realistic that they could get into a little mini run of a fourth place finishes for in the next couple of season. And to bring it back around Check. Things have changed for the Pittsburgh Steelers too, because they had a nice long run there where it was them and the Patriots, and it just felt like one of those teams was gonna come out. Another team

would jump in every once in a while. Everything's changing, and they haven't made a super Bowl in like a decade. It always it is funny to think about them as as they were that team that was like kind of there but not really Like the Bronzos were there, the Colts were there, like Peyton Manning was there but whatever team he was on. But the Steelers weren't really ever there.

They were a team to admire if you're a fan of a team that's struggling or an f C North team, but they were never that like you went too far, say you were drying, so you went too far and it became cartoon and and I just want to say, with Cessler and Damaschek together on the show today, it just shows you, you know, in this in this country where um everything is so turned up and it's always one side against the other and a lot of bad blood.

And the fact that you two gentlemen have been on the show today and it had you could we haven't, Greg and I haven't since any hatred or tension despite the fact that I could tell you, Dave that a lot of your tweeting during the season really got under Mark skin. Uh. And then Mark had his great, great come up and it's come January, and that that felt like a measure of revenge against you Scheck for some

of your pithy comments about his beloved Clevelan Browns. The fact that you guys can be on the show together and there's no ill will just kudos to both you met. That's who we are. Yeah, that's right. Were we defined class together and individually. But I really do think, um, I trying to go down another rabbit hole. You're talking about Jared Goff and Jimmy g and Carr and Wentz and all these guys. I am not convinced that Baker Mayfield is definitely the guy who is worth a big

second contract. I'm not convinced to that, and I get that I'd take it with a grain of salt. I really, I sincerely. I felt pleasure for I felt happiness for because I'm classy, Like I say, for Mark Sessler. In the long suffering Browns fans, most of them, some of them. There's always a percentage of creeps out there with any

fan base. But I was happy to see that. Also though, the celebration that came off of that, and as though they had as though Tom Brady thought that Browns fans got a little out of hand for winning a wild card game on that one like that was like drunk Tom Brady off the boat was like, all right, settled down Browns fans, you only want to playoff game. I agree with all that. I mean, I think they didn't in twenty years and it was big moment in Pittsburgh.

It was a whipping No, you should celebrate all that. It might be another twenty years. Who you never know, you might have. No. No, I'm not I'm not suggesting that you shouldn't have enjoyed that. I I am, though, saying I really do. Don't get over your skis about the Cleveland Grounds, because they did that. You know, they really they really were a Mason Rudolf two point conversion and then who knows a field goal and overtime away from not even getting there in a game that they

had to have at home. They almost lost the Mason Rudolph. Now they turned around and they shame. I can't wait till you get I just said, I I just said they shamed the Steelers in a fashion that that that was hard the stomach. I I there are more painful losses that I would attribute to Tom Brady and the Patriots um in a couple of title games in the twenty one century, But the most embarrassing loss was that one. I mean Marky's penalty over the head Roethlisberger throwing the

word interception literally, I know that sounds hyperbolic. The worst interception of his career was which one was that from where he sailed at seventeen feet over James Connor's head um for the pick and then and then you guys were off and running. I do though the the the the low expectation and the result that you got. I

could see the Browns winning the division. I think it now has that vibe of a destination kind of place, like if J. J. Watt lands there and you put him alongside on the other side of Miles Garrett, fascinating stuff. It'll be a feel good um summertime for Browns fans. I just I'm not positive that that banks the guy

how s well. I would say this so that the whole thing that these teams have to deal with where you aren't sure who your quarterback is, but this ticking clock sits out there and having to give them a massive contract just because all quarterback contracts are giant at this point, I think it's a huge talking point in cleaved and but compared to where he was a year ago, I mean, Baker, I think did everything you could have asked.

But I'm with you that like do I think I would rather these contracts be like two years long and then we can let's check back in and see where we are at that point. But what I find delightful is that one of your primary concerns, Um, and whether you're not to feel this way about yourself, I feel this way about you. You're concerned about Browns fans getting over their skis. UM. That hasn't been an issue for

decades plus. And what I enj what I noticed on Twitter, UM, was palpable panic from Steelers fans after they lost that playoff game. And you know, Steelers fans, they're not that much different than New England fans in the sense that if you're of a certain age, the bad times, you know, the truly bad times are deep in the rear view mirror. If you think that what just happened was tough to handle.

Try two and a half decades of that, and let's check in on the mental um state of Pittsburgh's fan base. Then it will be interesting, it will be freaky. I cannot wait to hear your comments in or whatever. That's so we won't be able to see the Steelers van skis because they'll be buried under an avalanche the snow on the screen. And I thought that's what you were about that. I thought this was all leading to you, like if you thought that one hurt. I wanted it together. Greg,

you kind of you were mentioning it earlier. And it's funny check brings it up, because yes, the golf contract went sideways, the went steel went sideways. Baker did come up in my mind as well. That is as great as he was at points last season and his rookie season as well. Maybe just waited out to see how this goes. Season goes, Let's let's see, like, Okay, you're a little grumbly Baker, just wait another year. What's the

big what's the big hurry? I'm with you, well on all these guys, it's like you, it's if you have Deshaun Watson. That's one thing, like just sign him early, although you know even the Texans might have some regrets about that. But just if it's not the Shaun Watson, don't sign him, right, they're gonna blow that one. They're gonna they're they're heading down a path that they're gonna they're gonna wreck themselves by holding on to the Shan, right,

that's what they're They're not gonna deal him. I bet you they hold on to him. They would be wise to deal him now or before the draft at least, but they're not gonna. I think they're gonna hold on to him, and they're gonna be like, hey, third week, dog is when you're showing up the Sean and he's gonna be like never, still should trade me? And they're just gonna sit on him because of the philosophy of like, you you can't negotiate with free agents who are sitting

out because that sets a bad tone. And all of that mean it's it's a pristine organization with crystal clear thinking at this time. So I don't know where the doubts come from. I think maybe it's been playing playing the game for too long. But as Jack is setting up that hypothetical which could play out certainly. I'm thinking about my fantasy draft and what would I do in that situation. Interesting where he should go. I'd love it. I'd love it. I don't know if it's gonna happen,

but it would be great. Mark. We talked about the Browns before we say goodbye UM for the weekend. UH. This is something that we didn't get a chance to talk about earlier, but the man deserves a moment of discussion. And one of your favorite NFL figures of all time who passed away last week. Let's listen to a little bit of this figure. Clean. Then there's a dream, let's get the glee. Marty Schottenheimer, one of the great head coaches of the late twentieth century UH top ten in

all time wins, passed away at age seventies seven. Marty Ball it was, and he had an unbelievable run with the Cleveland Browns, also with the Chiefs, some huge seasons, even though it never got over that. They never got over of the Hunt Hump Washington football team and the Chargers. He went two hundred and one in twenty one seasons. UH. A big time winner. Mark, and I know when you came of age as a football fan, he was the

man in Cleveland. Yeah, I mean I think that, you know, we could all for us, Like as Dave said, we're cheating life to be doing this as our work. Um, but we don't get here also without UM football at some point, UM capturing our hearts, our imaginations. UM for all of us is when we were young, young boys and when I became obsessed with the Cleveland Browns six when a friend moved to my town, my East coast

town where everyone was watching the Giants and Jets. You know, it was like, I'll find out what whether or not this Browns team is for me, um as a favor. I watched a Monday night game my friends saying this will be your team, don't I think it was like a low level Cowboys Fani's like, forget the Cowboys. And it was Bernie Coozar, it was Ernest Biner, it was Frank Middifield. But for me, I've always been coach centry because I played football at that age and my coaches

made a huge impact on me. And Marty Schottenheimer. Um, right away, I just felt like this is what a football coaches and For me, it was his verbalization and what he would say, and whenever he spoke, I just thought, this guy is different than the you know, big beer belly dude that is you know, you know, just punching the clock. This guy is a motivating force and a wonder on that front. And he really really got those

Browns teams to believe. And I'll never forget that. It was guys like Ernest Biner who said he was like a father to me. So many Browns players said that.

And you know, on a personal note, my mom um worked for this law office and the head lawyer guy was friends with Schottenheimer and on a whim in like she's like reached, she had this guy reach out to Marty Schottenheimer and just say there's this like obsessed nerd on the East coast who loves the Browns, and shot point blank, Schottenheimer sent me like this sign poster of the entire team, you know, which is not a big deal except when you're that age. I was literally freaking out.

And I went to my first ever Brown scheme at Cleveland Municipal Stadium in November of It was a surprise gift from my dad, and they went and whipped up on a bad Steelers team, you know that eight eight team back then, and uh it was in a pouring rain and in the third quarter Schottenheimer had organized for at old Cleveland Municipal Stadium for my name to be put up on the big, gigantic end zone dog Pound teleprompter thing with an announcement along with a bunch of

other announcements, girl scouts and all this other business. But then one of them was happy birthday to this guy from the East Coast, and I he it's little things like that, but I think Marty Schottenheimer the person if you ever go watch a football life on him, it's the person up until the end. And I'm it was really sad to see how he went out because he

wasn't able to be that engaged fire starter. And it's a pleasure to have Dave on the show because I know that West was one, well, the one person I could talk about those old A s C. Central days with. He knew it. He was a Bengals fan during the Schottenheimer Brown's days and check you were right in that mix too. It was a special time in the NFL. It really was. I love that that a f C.

Central Air. There is Sam Retigliano gave and bum Phillips gave way to Jerry Glandville and Marty Schottenheimer and Sam Whish and Chaz Know the emperor of the division reprimanding some of those guys. If he didn't like something Jerry Glandville did, he would let him know on the field right after the game, in the handshake kind of stuff.

Before Pete Carroll and Jim Harbaugh college football fields were arguing with each other, No would pull him in and say, you better tell your guys to cut that crap out. He would reprimand them, like, this is our division, this is how it is. And Schottenheimer, a Pittsburgh guy, was was easy to root for, not just because he was from Pittsburgh, but the there's a gleam man and all that kind of stuff that you see in movies and

in the muck. In my or of January, I did find myself rooting impossibly for the Browns to win those games. And Rich Carlos missed the field goal in overtime, it would have hit the post. Football would be different. We could have had Cessler Bowl. I never realized that it really would have happened very quickly because it would have been the Browns and the Giants in uh Phil Sims

versus book Bernie Kosar. What a super Bowl for that would have been if young Mark Suz are gonna watch that to steal his steal his heart for all of time, if that matchup would have happened. But yeah, Schottenheimer, he gonna you know, I don't know, I don't know where the middle is there. I guess it's somewhere in between of like Belichick's way and Bob Knight's way and iron fist and all that kind of stuff. And Marty Schottenheimer beloved by all who encountered him, father figure and all that.

I know, Browns fans wish and Chargers fans would have liked to have seen him bring a Lombardi home. But in the meantime, you know, listen, we can soccer in this it. Maybe you know, those things are nice to man. I would have liked for the Browns to get one. I guess so that Schottenheimer had that and therefore would have had a gold jacket. Certainly she don elway his whole career. I mean Kansas City too, Chiefs fans too, and Chargers fans I saw this. I saw this, you know,

he was eighty games over five hundred. I saw this, like advanced metric evaluation of the best dynasties never to reach a super Bowl, which is like they defined as a four year run by football side that the Saints just entered that discussion the last four years basically, and I think they were, you know, in their statistical view, was actually going to be number one. Number two and three were Shottenheimer teams. And it wasn't the Browns, it

was it was the Chiefs. And he contributed to most of the Chargers round which Nord Nord Turner finished off. And so like he he coached great teams basically everywhere he went. It was. It wasn't even just those Browns teams so many. I hope you and Antonio Kramardi are happy with yourselves. Hand, So she really ruined what could have been special season for the Sandy. You know what, that doesn't happen? Um, you guys? Wait, am I getting it right? That? Wait? What how did that go down?

That was a part of And it was the fourteen and two Chargers team number one, see the Jets or nine and seven? That game? They Yeah, there was it was a close game. But yeah, the Chargers just seemed and those Marty teams always seemed to come up short in the playoffs but also in just crushing ways. And I was thinking about, of course, everybody knows the drive in the fumble with Cleveland, but with the Chiefs, they had some excellent teams, uh, in addition to the Chargers

teams that are excellent. And like I was looking back back at my old Pain rankings, and I would have a category the patron saying to pain for organizations. I had Marty in that because he was he was the face of the you know, building up those massive Chiefs teams in the nineties that would always stumble and fall when they they should have played. Really, um, they would have played the All Boys in Super Bowl thirty and it would have been a grand one if if their

kicker hadn't missed three kicks in that game. Um yeah, that was that. That's um, yet another one, And I get just because I have to hear the answer. Rosenthal air corre Els h and Dan Foux's Chargers have to be I think the numbers didn't go back. I think Devodvo it doesn't go back that far. So it goes back like thirty some thirty five, thirty six years or something. Um, okay,

there you go. And I did get a chance to meet Marty Schottenheimer when we wrote the blog for Around the NFL Around the League and people would come through the studio and do the car wash. Got to sit down with Marty and his wife, just a really kind man. I went into that Shadow League Figures office and I said, Mark doesn't want it. Mark would rather just sit and file copy on the Sean Jackson's hamstring injury. So I just handled been talking to un serious guy. I've been

talking to damn shik again. I've been keep us all on the ball. All right, there you go, rest in peace, Marty Schottenheimer. Uh check you've come and you've said it all, and uh we really we miss we miss everybody because we haven't seen anybody from the office uh in a year. But the fact that you are no longer with the company and that's a bummer too. So it's just great

to have you on the show. Well, a pleasure of course, and I look forward to once this uh, this insanity uh is lifted being able to you know Rosenthal, your wife West and I two of the great dinners of my life. And I remember, by the way, Handsu Sessler, West and me went to a great steak place in New York City. Rosenthal, the misses Westing and I had a three and a half hour dinner in a restaurant, and you and Rosenthal, handsome and I had one of the five best dinners of my life in New Orleans.

So I look forward to getting back on that train, and I lament that. You know, I'm happy. I texted they hand zeus last night. Little things stand out to me now. I saw that Barry Larkin has signed on to do color analysis for the Reds this year. And the first thing I b West is gonna love. Uh West, I loved that. He really that would have. Yeah, he loved to watch the Red Legs just purely for pleasure,

and he would have enjoyed that. And I joked with Cessila, I look forward to the rise of Joe Burrow and watching West struggle to fight off the urge to start rooting for them once again. But I appreciate you guys having me on to talk about a great fellow. Check and yes, again Chris Westling is being celebrated on what would have been his forty seven birthday over on NFL dot com. It's up now. I just checked it out.

So if you go to the homepage scroll down, you'll see a lot of his best stuff, including uh, one of his great pieces Ten football books you must read, and he put a ton of work and effort into it in fact and or of Wes and and and thanks to Mark as well for um putting it on my radar. Um. Number one on his list is a Fans Notes by Frederick Exuley Uh, And I scooped that up on Amazon last week and I just started it

and I'm really enjoying it. Like as I'm reading, I was like, oh, I get why West is in love with this book and this writer. But check out as well if you're if you're somebody who absolutely loves football and just want craves the best writing about football. Nobody had more knowledge of that than Chris, and Chris sets sets the table so beautifully in that article, one of the many great reads over there on dot com. As we remember the great Chris westling um, alright, anybody else have?

I would just say that Fans Notes that Um. One of my earliest memories of West was before I met him, but you know how, you know, you'd start to engage with people on Twitter and go back and forth and we um, I don't know how it started, but we got on this riff about a year and a half before he started at NFL dot com about a fan's notes, and I immediately just remember thinking like this is a

different type of sports fan and sportswriter on Twitter. Like he wasn't had nothing to do with numbers and analytics and all this other business. He was in love with what that story had to tell us. So I really think that anyone out there who has not read that book, you will get a sense and a slice of the West mystique um inside those pages. Well said, well said. All right, we'll be back full slate of shows next week as we start to edge, of course, toward free

agency and the draft. And thank you again to the great Dave Damn Shack. Check him out Minus three pod and the Extra Points podcast and hopefully Dave's the thunder they just you know comes we'll be back. But happy birthday in the meantime to the Boss and the West and keep up with the mirth fellas. Thank you jack Uh and happy birthday to Greg ros In for two years, Young Jack the Jackie Robinson of the Around the NFL podum had shack the old Boss and the new Birthday

joy and by behind the virtual of glass. Have a great weekend until Monday.