Tom Brady Retires; Brian Flores Lawsuit

it was going to better sing toss. The White Patria joined the Super Bowl. Brady want to come back. Tom Brady is a Super Bowl champion again for the record setting seventh time. The greatest player who ever lived has now retired, the buck naded quarterback and Tom Brady walks into the Hall of Fame, probably unanimous, Probably definitely unanimously. Tom Brady has ended the greatest career in the history

of the NFL. That's coming from a Jets fan. Twenty two years, a run of dominance both statistically and as a team competitor. A guy who went to ten Super Bowls won seven of them. And boys, as we begin a very special edition of the Around the NFL Podcast and hands Us with Mark Sessler and Greg Rosenthal. Greg, I think this stat kind of some things up there. You can't sum everything up with Tom Brady's career, which ended today with an official Instagram announcement with just one note,

but this kind of gives you an idea. When Brady won his first super Bowl in the second NFL season, that was way back in the two thousand one in season with the Patriots, he was the youngest starting quarterback to ever win a super Bowl. When Tom Brady won his last super Bowl in the second to last season with the Bucks, he was the oldest starting quarterback to ever win a super Bowl forty three. He never gradual declined, Greg, No, he never declined in that motivation that you gave he

There you go. He never declined. And I think there's so many things to look back on, but the fact that he never got old like the rest of us and every one of his peers, that's what stands out to me. Right. The last two years I think in Tampa are gonna be remembered so much because not only did it kind of you know, spiked the football on

any debate over who's the greatest ever? If it wasn't decided anymore, it was setting boundaries that no one's even thought about, because his last season in New England, when they struggled down the stretch, when they lost in the first round of the playoffs, was easily the greatest season by a forty two year old quarterback in the hit through the sport like nothing had ever even been close. No one had ever played an entire season as a forty two year old in the history of the sport.

And that was him actually looking like he was proven you right, Dan, a gradual decline and then to go to Tampa and to have back to back seasons where you won the m v P or rather the Super Bowl MVP, where in the last eight or nine games this season he was clearly the best quarterback in the league, and this year he would have gotten my vote for m VP. Reasonable minds can disagree, but certainly one of the best two or three players not too late in

the entire NFL. I know if Tom Brady had been thinking, uh, he would have announced this like leading into week eighteen, and then I think he definitely wins the award over in Rodgers. But Unfortunately the votes are in the longevity is is part of it, but it's longevity with excellence because he was better post age thirty six, I think then than he was before, which is just hard to fathom.

I mean, I argue that at age forty three, you know, last season, that he had more signature moments than of all quarterbacks you know, shoved together, I mean the ones that fail and all of them the good ones. And we prior to Matthew Stafford coming to the Rams, I remember thinking like, I can't come up with five signature

Matthew Stafford moments yet he's a very good quarterback. But Brady just unfurled the been off of the NonStop And I mean this is a guy that like, essentially, I didn't matter if it was Week four and two thousand six or the Super Bowl, the height of the game, like each individual contest was um Brady sort of like Russian novel of intense focus, um passion. He was wedded

to the moment. And I think if you listen to it, it is instructed to me not just what we think and journals think in podcasters, but his own teammates, and I think they lived essentially, Uh you know in the sunlight of his presence. I mean, they loved being his teammate, and you know I don't. I loved watching Tom Brady, and I for all of us and for so many

people he encapsulated obviously an incredible span of time. But for me when it started as the biggest height of my fandom, where I never had any thought back then that I would work in football, I just loved watching it. It absorbed my sundays. And to go through the iterations of his career and to come and do what we've done and follow it along the fact that he's still here doing what he's doing. Um, I we're never going

to see anything like it. And I utterly laugh at these anyone's still bringing up anyone else at quarterback level. That's that's anything better than Tom Brady. He is heads and tails above anyone else. And he's better than Michael Jordan's. He's better than anyone. He's set the standard. No, no, no, I'm not whoa wo wowing like he he is. Absolutely he is. Football is different than these other sports. He

is the standard. There is nothing else for me. Well, that becomes bad if you think football is a better sport than the other. So I think we don't need jevity. It's tough, right. The longevity and what he was able to do, I think that's part of this story. And I think like when when the Peyton Manning retired after winning Super Bowl fifty, there was a conversation still like who is the greatest of this era, maybe of all time? And then Brady went on to play six more years.

It was like those six years were Hall of Fame level years. Here's a little bit from Tom Brady and his um Instagram message after you know it be It's almost started to become a little bit absurd the Saturday reporting by ESPN, and then it was hanging out there. If this would have carried on too much longer, would have started to feel weird. So I'm happy that if Brady really was walking away, it didn't drag out too much longer. Here is the official statement, or a part

of it from Brady. This is difficult for me to write, but here it goes, I am not going to make that competitive commitment anymore. I have loved my NFL career and now it is time to focus my time and energy on other things that require my attention. One of

the things. Greg also about Brady's incredible career was that for so much of it he was public enemy number one because of his success, because he had so many things in his favors, his his um, the team he was on, he was on, the individual accolades, he was a good looking guy, he had the model wife. Uh,

he was the most famous athlete in the country. So when when he failed, even when the team failed, or when Brady failed, or there was scandal like the spy Gate scandal or deflate gate or eighteen and one or you know, picked the Super Bowl loss, um, there was always this general idea of like whoever was on the right side against Brady and had the victory, like it made it even more special, Like I could say as a Jets fan, like my number one winever was the

Divisional playoffs up in Foxboro in two thousand and ten, like going into there and beating Brady. For me as a Jets fan and many others like me, that was number one because of Brady. And to be that sort of measuring sick in a team sport like football is what's unprecedented. And and that's part of why I started talking about the Bucks thing, because it did help separate Brady from just what they accomplished um in New England.

But you mentioned that debate, like the Manning Brady debate, I do want to kind of go back to that Super Bowl that it was the Seahawks Broncos, and in the front cover of NFL dot com this morning that morning was will win in this game by Peyton Manning and they were favored, which is hard to remember because they lost by thirty five. Will this win cement Peyton Manning as the greatest ever? And I don't think that was a hot take at that point. It was kind of like this would put him over the top of

Tom Brady at that time. It was It wasn't that long ago. And so the way that Tom Brady became the greatest ever was actually during our era was during the round the NFL era. We we saw many of those games. He's he's the greatest because of that era. Since then, you know that they won four titles, or he won four titles. The Patriots had three of them. He got the m v P. He was really a top three quarterback almost every one of those seasons except

for that the ending one in the Patriots. And now we're at the point where Eli Manning is sending out tweets and saying like you are the greatest to ever do it. Even Peyton Manning's brother isn't even considering the fact um that that he could be competitive with Tom Brady.

And like I think about I think about that come back against the Hawks, as against the Seahawks as the single most important game of his career personally, um because it ended the ten years that they didn't have It was against the number one defense of that year, the defining defense of that year at the time, it was the greatest fourth quarter comeback in the history of the Super Bowl, and and Malcolm Butler helped him along the way.

But it really did just change things of where he went because he changed as a quarterback really around oh six oh seven, that's when his peak started. He was waylaid for two years by the a c l wasn't quite the same by O. Nine. From ten on, he was just like full Tom Brady the rest of the way,

and the wind started stacking up. And even the years that they didn't win the Super Bowl, like included that Eagles game where he probably had his best Super Bowl performance, the f C Championship against Broncos, which to me is one of the most memorable games he ever had with Gronk against that Broncos team, and they had no offensive line, no running game, and he still almost got them there. That's the thing is like he has as many memorable losses as any quarterback in the history of the NFL,

which is which is wild too. I mean to your point, like since turning forty, he's seventy and twenty four with a touchdowns. I think any debate with Peyton Manning, which was juicy for a solid era, um had vanished a long time ago. I there, we never saw him suck.

I love. That's kind of what I love is that, you know, we just came off the whole Big Ben experience where it visually and psychologically tarnished what we think about what I thought about Big Ben just end the end is so wrong and like the two thousand ten Brett Farve season is still this like um stink trap at the end of it win the Super Bowl. But he like, yeah, it was, I mean, despite him almost they wanted and it's not the way you want to

go out. But Tom Brady like easily could have played next season easily, and he was an m v P. He should, I would. I'm with you, Greg, I'd vote for him for m VP this year. So it's it's hard to leave football as a quarterback, but as anyone in a graceful way. Almost everyone wants to go one or two years too far, where you look vulnerable, you don't look yourself, and our memories of you change, our

impression of you changes. He somehow goes out um, almost in Jim Brown fashion, but not after you know, less than a decade, an incredibly incredibly long career that like, no one's ever going to touch this, this will never happen again. We've seen something that will never happen again. He provided a roadmap, you could say, for other quarterbacks to attempt it, whether it's how he takes care of

his body or who he surrounds himself with. But it does feel like it is like a once in a generation, once in a century type situation that he could go out um this way. He led the league in yardage and touchdowns. There's no other quarterback like it. I have to do this article ranking of Super Bowl eraic quarterbacks every year, and I tried. I went through like the top twenty and tried to look for something similar and there wasn't really anything, and actually was somewhat close but not.

But even he he was definitely not the same guy in Kansas City as he was a San Francis and couldn't stay healthy. But but the fact that Brady's career ended UM in Tampa in a very disappointing way. Obviously you're defending a title, UM, but he did lead them on a three comeback. Uh they got that game tied. His last touchdown pass was a bomb down the right sideline. You never questioned Tom Brady's arm strength as he edged into his mid forties, beating Jalen Ramsey for a touchdown.

West did too. I remember this. I didn't like it. Like it back in you know, well alright, okay, calm down, take it easy. But I'm saying and once his he had the sustained secondary peak. You never questioned anything about his physical tools. In fact, what made him a marvel also was yeah, how he it seemed like he was

moving better. He wasn't faster necessarily, but he had mastered this the the intellectual element of the game and still had the physical skills, so he almost you know, if he would have went out on a back to back title in Tampa. I guess that's the ultimate storybook ending. But this isn't a bad consolation prize. Can I offer one gripe? And it has nothing to do with Tom

Brady at all? Um, it is the way this whole thing played out, and you mentioned it, Dan, it it to me is deflating and it's like, um, Christopher Hitchens said that news by definition is what you don't know already and what you might not like when you get it. I really, um am a little. I know this is

like they're all part of our business. But the breaking news culture that we have where this thing if there was ever a player to like not go you know, skirt around the idea of honoring how Tom Brady would leave the game. But to have this thing break the day it did, takes the air out of the balloon, um and probably disrupted the way that completely disrupted the way Brady would have wanted to do it and forced him to do it today. Because because you're right, it's

like lingering, it's weird. We've got to get an official statement. It's one example of like can we chill? Can we ever chill? And like let someone go out on it. This is one guy that deserved to go do it his own way, and instead it's like, I've got to get my news flash out there, super tedious. I'm not su precious about that. I just feel like I know,

I just I just I just found it annoying. It's like because it's news ultimately, and it's like it's just you know, if you want, if he wants to announce it, then he could announce it when he knew for sure, and otherwise it's just like any other story. To me, it doesn't take anything away, like Saturday got a great day of it and everyone's talking, and today is getting a great day of it and we're gonna be talking

about him for the rest of our lives. Think I think it's I would imagine it's seriously annoyed Tom Brad. I think he said he was out of the country. He was out of the country on Saturday. He's trying to enjoy some peace and quiet and it blew up. So I think absolutely it would qualify let's call it a bummer the way it's set up for him. But I think a year from now, certainly five years from now, when he goes into the Hall of Fame. We're not gonna be thinking back to the schefter uh situation. But

I see your greater point. Poor Darling and keeps getting left out every time I hear talk about I have it, but so does you know? Guy, I don't. Darlington probably had it more because he really did that. He didn't get the lead billings. So take it up with ESPN, right, yeah, he I do appreciate that Tom knew we were taping today. Um, he let our podcast be better by doing it this morning.

And he also really thumbed his nose at Jim Gray because he taped an addition of the Let's Go podcast on Monday evening, and in that podcast he said he hadn't made his decision retiring. I mean, that's it's a tough spot for the Let's Go podcast. Let's be reimagine if if one of us announced something important about our careers or our lives on our Instagram, like immediately after

we taped the podcast Let's Go off the air. I mean yeah, And by the way, if you watch that, if you're gonna listen to that podcast going forward, it's gonna be like Tom hawking his health supplements. So enjoy enjoy the content there. Yeah, it does. I think we kind of had this one now though the fact that the podcast had no real presence until last week and doesn't even get that. But on the on the subject Ricky, I want to bring Ricky Hollywood in here. She is

a lifelong Patriots fan. And Erica that the Tom Brady goodbye message was seven words. Um, the image was Tom in a Buck's uniform and over those seven words. Never d that picture was him at Gillette. That is such an fu are you? He never mentioned Bill Belichick, he never mentioned the Patriots or Robert Kraft, and he never mentioned you the fan. Take you through it? Well, okay, first of all, my friends my group chat back home going crazy, very upset, very very very upset, and I

agree with them. It's it's hard to see this. Yes, we got our thank you a few years ago. And and did he say specifically retire in that post. No, so he is stepping away, So he's thanking the Bucks organization for him to put that picture of it. My voice is like this because I've been crying all more.

And no, I was screaming about the Bengals. But um, I was actually like, okay, this is like whatever, thank you Tom for like the best memories, Like I am honored to like that he is why I love sports, Like Tom Brady has been you know that fails safe forever.

But it's like to throw the photo of him in the Bucks uniform at Gillette, like that is that is petty bro Like come on, and now now the counterpoint Greg where he tells you it doesn't matter, go ahead, he also sent he did send out after but you understand, right, let's just let's just break this down, because let's not leave anything that you know out out in the opening with any type of like a lack of awareness of

how this played out. He writes the seven words, he pours over every word and goes over it with all his people, or maybe he just reads it a hundred

times and runs it past his dad. He sends it out purposely keep in New England and everything that element of his life out of it, which just seems impossible to do for a guy that played twenty years then and then when that becomes like and this is why I think it was ultimately not the right move for there multiple reasons, but like that's gonna be what people take out of it, and that's the story that started going viral this morning, which leads him to send out

the two line tweet which quy the way bro that you know the toothpaste is out of the tube. I just wonder And this is all more just Greg just kind of fun to speculate on this stuff. But there has to be something more to some of the relationship dynamics that that he chose to do that. I hope they work it out in time, because you want him coming to Foxboro for different events and you want him part of it. But that really struck me as odd.

I was going through because you have to scroll through the messages, you scroll through the statement, through the Instagram post, and I'm waiting for the New England part and it just never came. I think it is instructive that he sent like a four page thing when he left New England, like extolling the virtues of Bill Belichick and extolling all the people there and thanking them and Robert Kraft like he did that, like you can go look at those

that water rose. And now he's he's talking about everything he'd done in his career and he doesn't mention the place where he won six titles and went to nine Super Bowls. I guess I guess I'm wired differently because it seems crazy to me that like sports, that the fans would be so self involved and like unappreciative Greg, Greg, Greg, you were out of control, Like I'm not even in New England and I'm not like some of my crazy

friends like there. I I think the Boston sports fans are the worst sports fans in the world because of that, Like because because it's like they make any any fan base in the country would have been personally hurt by that. Course, it doesn't matter if we were Eagles, fans would be chucking batteries at people because it's like what you're gonna call us the worst? Like it's different than it's different

than an actor. Um you know, finally, after many years, winning like an Academy Award and thanking his second wife but ignoring his first wife who we divorced, like this is where his career was built. Um. I do think that to Dan's point, if you like, that was a meticulously thought out message, and so he meticulously thought out

leaving New England not in it. Um. Yeah, he was in New England and the freaking photo Okay, but don't you think that like everyone's intentional, everyone and everyone attached to putting that message out new that like every talking head's gonna go crazy over the fact that the Patriots weren't messing, we weren't in it so well that you know what's gonna I guess I hadn't thought about it that much, but maybe that, I mean, that's like what's helped make Tom Brady, you know Tom Brady, you know,

like I guess, I guess I'm at the three, Like that's that's what made him great. I and I. But I also just don't think like this one statement. It's when everyone is paying attention rightfully and ensure it does

it deserves some attention. He is the way he has spoken about Belichick this season, the fact that they spent twenty five minutes in the locker room just the two of them after that Week four game, and the way that they spoke about each other after that and throughout the last two seasons, to me, like that means just as much or like that, like you know what I mean, like doesn't matter, not an oversight, but just it you can you can take it all in and like I

take all those words that he said throughout the last two seasons, the previous Davids, and I take the fact that that he left him out here maybe because he's a competitor. You're right, like and and that's all part of like the package who gave Patriots fans, including myself, like the greatest joy of like a sports fan that you what ever could have. So it just seems it just seems weird on the day that you're celebrating him personally to worry too much about that like all that.

I mean, I totally got that, And I think a lot of people you know, on Reddit and Twitter are gonna be like, Eric is a sad Pats fan just crying about it. It's like, this guy gave us twenty of the best years that we will ever have, and everybody in the league is lucky to see that. And he has been been on my favorite team besides Jets fans and other fans that have lost. But but listen, we are lucky to have witnessed this type of greatness.

So am I I thankful? Is Boston so thankful and appreciative? Yes, there's no argument about that whatsoever. People were rooting for him as a buck because they loved Tom Brady so much. But yes, was this a snub and was this intentional? My point is he was gone two years ago and we're gonna have the rest of our lives for him to say nice things. He stiffed the Patriots. That's there's no way around it. There's no other way. But that also, I don't want to say that that's where we should be,

like dwelling on this conversation. I just thought it was minutes on it. Well, I think you played a role in that, Greg, I think that the bigger pictures still obviously, I mean, let's I just want to read another thing. He's one of those guys where the numbers just blow you away. He finished with a two and forty three and seventy three regular season record, thirty five and twelve in the playoffs, when three MVP Awards selected to the Pro Bowl fifteen times, of course, the one pick in

two thousand. I'll say one more thing, And you're right, Greg, they hold the voting at the end of the regular season. But we could get a little we can get a little tricky on this one, especially considering who's gonna end up winning the award. We can we can make some moves here. I wouldn't be against it. I just want to hear Marcus so mad about He's been very angry to not get in knowing I'm listening, keep going. I

like I I'm hearing what Dan says. I would like to see if Aaron Rodgers wins this m v P, I will be extremely annoyed. He is not the m v P on any level. I would I would. I don't know how you do this, rejigger the vote. I know he is because the people books. I give it to Tom Brady open to blow up the books, write a new book, and let's just get this right and everyone can go go to the bar and giggle about

what they just did and we won't know how it happened. Um, I my last start on this, and then you guys please also if you have something else to share, because we do have to move on. There's a lot of other NFL news as well, uh as we look ahead, the personnel carousel and of course Super Bowl fifty six. But um, I think I think he's in this category. I think he's in the Babe Ruth Michael Jordan's Tom

Brady Cady. I think he is in that like all time holy sector of American athletes, just because of all the accomplished and how he did it differently than anyone else. And I think unique is the word to me that best describes his career because there was no decline. There was when it looked like there might have been one, he said, no, I'm going to change and flip the script. And there was part of a savvinus to to Brady

as well. Maybe he would have stayed in a bit of a sustained decline if he was with the Patriots when they were kind of retooling in a tough spot, but knowing when to maybe say let me jump here to Tampa Bay and revitalize things. I think that was a brilliant bit of personal maneuvering as well. So he annoyed me, he killed me, He destroyed me for years and years and years. But I really do think um, like Mark, you and I have worked at the company

since two thousand and ten. Greg, you've been with us since two thousand thirteen. You covered and went to Super bowls. Uh, and like we got to see this and cover Brady in this back half of his career and go to numerous Super Bowls, including three, including the Malcolm Butler game, including even like I was saying earlier, the Eagles game, where uh, you know, to be on the losing side, but that made that game even more interesting. You know that the Giants Super Bowls. It was just I'm lucky

to be able to have covered him. I have to say that I'm with you. Like, um, I was just trying to think about the fact that most of my Tom Brady memories are not about like these compiled stats

and like his forties versus other people's twenties. That's all relevant, obviously, but like I remember being in the locker room after he lost the Giants the second time and seeing like literal anguish on his face as he took long minutes trying to peel his socks off his injured body, and like he was, you know, I know you hate this, but Jim Gray was sitting next to him, and like,

Brady just looked very upset. I mean, I think about the time like years later when he beat the Rams, and you know, maybe he thought, this is the last time we do this with the Patriots and the Super Bowl and he was going up to individual teammates in the locker room and not just give him a high five, like it was like two or three minute long conversations

looking into their eyes. He was a genuine person. And if you defied him, because there was one time that I remember trying to defy the greatness of Tom Brady, he you will pay the price. It was twenty three against the Falcons and I had to write this little NFL dot com. You know, you must write some feature coming out of the game, so I had write. I wrote one at halftime. I got about seventeen hundred words

into how the Patriots defense let the team down. And even by the end of the third quarter, I was telling, you know, editor David Eally, I think, um, this still works if they hold on, and we were both starting to question the concept of it. And as the minutes kept going, I started to realize I had been banged in the biggest spots. I don't even have a column at this point. I went against Tom Brady, and you

pay when you do that. He is on that mountaintop with Babe Ruth and Michael Jordan's He's on the top of it. That's that's how I remember Tom Brady is the Mark uh post game filing after I'm just saying it's personal moments like good and bad, like things you learn about how fierce he was. You know, I had about five words on Dion Jones and the and the Falcon speedy linebackers. I think in that game speaks In that game, no one expected them to come back, but

that game speaks to something. Check Row, which I totally agreed with, was like, the greatest thing in sports is when you expect something improbable on paper to happen from like a great, truly great player, and it does. And he brought up that that Seahawks moment as as the best as what he thought was the best moment his career, and I thought so too. But there's just so many There's so many others, and football is funny because it

is such a team sport. You can't divorce Belichick in Brady totally, and you can't divorce Brady from everything that happened in New England. But on some level it does come down to the cliche of like are you gonna make that drive at the end of the game, Like are you gonna do it or or not? And he will always be the greatest at that one of the best, and sometimes it did come and last one of, if not the best drive of his life was two thousand

seven against the Lions. They got the ball back down three, hadn't done anything all day with about eight minutes to go, hadn't and and he goes down the field ten fifteen plays six minutes to go up four on on Eli Manning. Because because that was the game where they felt every bit of pressure that they were man handled up front. Even after that drive, they didn't top three hundred yards

of offense. Yet when he was put with his back against the wall, more than any other moment I thought of his entire career, that drive started inside the tent. He went down the field and he got that touchdown to Randy Moss to go take the lead and try to be the hero. And it didn't work out for him that day because because the defense didn't finish it off. And that's how football goes like that's he lost his best Super Bowl performance, as you mentioned against the Eagles.

I thought that was good, but he just like gets but he just kept going back and he kept going in that position, and even in a game like that Rams game again after that interception when they absolutely needed a drive to get it done. They changed what they did offensively all game, they changed the formation. He he he knows what the Rams are gonna do in terms of adapting.

And even on a day that was was bad, compared to that a f C Championship where he lit up Patrick Bones, that's the moment where you have to go make that drive. If you're Tom Brady, everyone expected him to do it. He throws it to Gronk and he does it, and he adds another super Bowl. It's just like that guy delivered by the way, Eli has no dummy. When he comes out today and records a video message saying Tom, You're the best ever. He's doing it for Eli because he beat Tom and the Super Bowl twice.

If Peyton doesn't need to be the best, Tom's the best because it brings it up. He has the same joke every time. He's like, thanks for letting me have a couple. Yeah, and why not? As he said, I know the Bucks would have to cut him. And then

there's money issues and all this kind of stuff. And I obviously there's so much behind the scenes with their relationship and everything, but like, just part of me, not all of me, is like I wish he would like officially, like sign a one day contract with the Pats, and I know how improbable that is and retire. Remember what

we talked about ten minutes ago. I know, I don't think that's I don't think it is at all, but it is if it also seems like a move by lesser, lesser stars or lesser at like they come back like you know, hey, they were a five year career in Atlanta. They went like to Kansas City for two years, fell off the map, and then they go back and have that ceremony at like six in the morning on a Wednesday with the Falcons. It's like, all right, let's move on.

They gotta have their moments. They're gonna have their moments together. Ricky and I have no doubts about that. Him and into the future have some doubts. We'll see what Let's see what happens. But I want to ask you guys this, do you think there's any way he comes back? Yes, it's Brady. You never know. Absolutely. I'll tell you why. I'll tell you why because if I have one concern, and I've stated this before, the way that Tom Brady is built, I think his intentions are genuine and pure.

For wanting to go um, be with the family, be with the kids. But I am concerned about like a dull Milieu um um, you know, at post football and sort of just staring out windows like it's gonna be awesome for about four weeks. Then it's like, wait a minute, what, there's no what do I win? Now? What do I do? It's like, you're still the best quarterback in the room, has nothing left to prove. I don't. I don't think so.

It's why we won the quickest sandwiches we've ever won in this show off once it's once it even brought into his mind that he was thinking about it. He just seems like the type two walk away. And I am happy as just like a Brady fan that that he didn't go out on that. Ultimately he was right. I mean, for all the people in New England that were mad at Belichick, and I wasn't one of them. I was on the wrong side here. I thought that was the time to make the divorce because I didn't

want to see the decline. Like he was right. He Tom Brady was right and he proved it right. And that is like an ultimate exclamation point to end his career with Ricky and Dan. What happens to Greg when at some point in his adulthood, um going forward, he uh flies back into the state of Massachusetts an attempts to get off the plane into an airport. He is

going to be destroyed by the Pats. Fans are right there giving advice to to maybe Ellis where she's like she gets her heartbroken for the first time, or maybe you know, we all get our hearts broken. And he's like, well, don't be sad, it's over, Like be happy it happened. And she's like sobbing on the bedroom floor. It's like, Dad, you suck, you suck. You're not helping anything. You sound like like a thirteen year old girl right now, So

do you every day? All Right, everybody calmed down. I know it's an emotional day for Patriots fans across the world. Tom Brady has retired after twenty two years. All right, let's take a break. There is other things going on in the NFL, including some wild news unfolding as we record here. So let's uh take a break and we'll hit the rest of the news. Welcome back time for news and notes presented by up Work, where you can

build a team that will build your business. Learn were at upwork dot com and explosive bit of news came down while we were having our Tom Brady discussion. Perhaps Don Brady. Tom Brady is connected to this story as well. Former Dolphins head coach Brian Flores is suing the NFL and teams within the NFL that he says have engaged in systemic racism uh practices against black coaches. Flora's name, the league, the Dolphins, the Giants, as well as the Broncos and John Doe teams one to twenty nine is

defendants in the lawsuit. It's a clash class action complaint, which means other coaches. Uh, we're assuming obviously other black coaches or coaches of color could join him in the suit if they wish. Uh. There are some crazy boys um revelations here and allegations. The suit says that the Dolphins his former employer. Of course, the Dolphins fired Flora's after his third season with the team despite having a

winning record. Flora says that Dolphins owner Stephen Ross offered to pay him an extra one hundred thousand per loss during the twenty nineteen season. That was the season when they started off poorly, and everyone assumed it was a tank job. Ross wanted the Dolphins to lose enough games to secure the first overall pick in the draft. The Dolphins improved that season as it went along, apparently not

or allegedly not to Stephen Ross's liking. Flores also alleged that Ross tried to get him to recruit a quote prominent quarterback who was under contract to another team. So this would have happened UH two off seasons ago. That would have been a violation in the league tampering rules if that player was under contract, which he most certainly was at the time. Flora says he refused to be

a part of that situation. The lawsuit also says the Jet the Giants scheduled an interview with Flora's last week to comply with the Rooney rule, even though they already knew they were going to hire Brian Dable as head coach. Uh. He finds out about it Flora's because Bill Belichick mistakenly texts him under the impression that Brian Dable is the higher for the Giants. He had been misinformed it was obviously, um, excuse me, Brian Flores is the higher. He had been misinformed.

It was Brian Dable getting hired so and finally, just to put a bow on the Bronco side of it, Flora's contends of three years ago he was involved in the same type of sham process with Denver when they hired Vic vic Fajio. And here's a statement from Flora's. In making the decision to file the class action complaint today, I understand that I might be risking coaching the game that I love and that has not done so much

for my family and me. My sincere hope is that by standing up against systemic racism in the NFL, others will join me to ensure that positive change is made for generations to come. Greg This is on the day that Tom Brady officially announces his retirement. This is a massive bombshell, and it's to reverberate across the league. It is remarkable. I'm still trying to digest it and where

to start. If you've ever heard Brian Flores talk um about racism, about what it's like to be a black man, a black coach in this country, this fits right in with it. Like he is, he is one of um the most passionate and like intelligent speakers on that topic, and he is not a man that you would want to mess with, I think in this arena, and I

think Stephen Ross is finding that out. That that's where we'll I'll start with it, just because that allegation that his owner offered to pay him extra money for every loss that they had goes against the competitive um rules and everything that the league is supposed to stand. And so that that's that's it's it's separate from the racist hiring practice. And we can get to the Belichick bills thing, which is probably those are probably the two the two

biggest things in this uh story. But that that is an explosive allegation and cuts to the core and is and is the NFL's worst nightmare. Really, this story is on two fronts, and and that's one of those two friends. Right if the runing rules started, and it did with good intentions to make a change, I mean, there is has been fairly been suspicion around how it's been used year after year, and like you, there hasn't been you know, tangible Syrian anecdotes like this about the fact that certain

candidates are brought in. But you get a sense that team a already knows who they want. Now we have these anecdotes, and um, if Brian Flores, I think you could argue that Flores is putting himself in his in a position where it could impact his own career. But to Greg's point, he believes in these topics, He's not alone. Um, the league needs to change the numbers, show that they vet that out. And it is it goes down to the fact that you know, even beyond Stephen Ross, it

is an ownership issue. It is. It is clearly an ownership issue and who they hire, how the practicing of hiring goes down. It's been a black mark on the eye of the NFL for years and years. It continues to be And this is I mean, this is sort of everyone that's been looking at this for years and years saying, we know this is happening. This report, these anecdotes are are are basically bricks being dropped. He's got screens, He's got screenshots that are public now of the Belichick

interaction and how that played out. Was Belichick congratulate him, thinking he had the job, and it turns out that Belichick and they have Belichick's all of his responses, which is fascinating that he misunderstood the text that he was getting that out of there There there, Dan's story there there now, and he said, sorry, I I f this up by double checked. I misread the text. I think

they are naming Dable. I'm sorry about that. Be but before days before Flora's interviewed, I mean, and it all check tough because Joe Shane, Joe Shane is the GM who the Giants hired who worked with Devil. Basically, they knew when they hired Joe Shane that they were going to hire Devil as their head coach, and they had to go through with what Flores is rightly pointing out

was was a sham Rooney rule interview. This is incredibly um admirable, I think Brian Flores, because yes, this has been an issue, a glaring issue for the league for years, that it's a predominantly black league players wise, but the head coaching ranks are predominantly white, and we're not seeing progress in that realm even though they put they enacted the Rooney rule, which if you're not aware of what the Rooney rule is, it means if you are making

any head coach higher. And I think they expanded this now to front office as well. You have to bring in a person of color, uh for to interview as well to give to try to level the playing field. But it is proven to be something that doesn't seem to really um lead to a true increase in the number of coaches, because it bears out when you look at it every year. And and the reason bringing this to light and in this manner and dropping a bombshell on the league, that's the type of stuff that can

actually lead to tangible change. So I really admire that. And and and I also admire because he's coming off a three year run in Miami that was largely successful. And if he didn't get another head coaching job this year, um, he probably would have gotten one next year. And I don't know where this goes from table for Flora's, but it could go down a road where he doesn't get another head coaching job because that's just what we've seen

from the league. Look at Colin Kaepernick is a prominent example. So he's putting himself out there and I think it says a lot about his character. Also one other thing, I mean, if you you want to know who loved Brian Flores, his players. I mean there were one after the one after the next, glowing report from the players who loved to Brian Flores was and every time he got one of these head coaching interviews during this cycle.

Of course, what else is in our mind the fact that the Dolphins put out concepts and ideas that Brian Flores was tough to work with, that he um didn't go along with the plan, He wasn't collaborative. That that's rough stuff to put out there about a coaching candidate. But behind the scenes, all this was happening. Come on, we're gonna find out. But yes, if this that would give If this turns out to be true, and we'll see, maybe it gets proven, who knows, that would give us

a lot of context too. Yes, those reports that came out when he was let go of how he was difficult to work with, the meeting with the unnamed, uh prominent free agent or a quarterback which you know, connect dots, it could be Tom Brady if you if you line up.

When Tom Brady became a free agent and eventually signed with the Bucks, there was a meeting on a yacht and in the lawsuit, he walks off the yacht when he's uh, the yacht of the owner, Stephen Ross, when he he sees what's trying to be set up a meeting between a prominent quarterback, the owner and the head coach to do something that shouldn't have been done because you can't tamper with the player currently under contract with

another team. This is this is a crazy story. This is I like, now looking at now we've been doing this. We're going into our tense season. I like the biggest stories of the A t N are the biggest game of the A t R, all that stuff. This one could end up being right up there. It has that many layers and could have the repercussions that could really shake the league. Well one thing, yeah, I think of

who it involves. It involves the Giants, you know, one of the league, Tiffany Brands, And involves a Dolphins team and a powerful owner and Stephen Ross, and and separate from the hiring really goes out of you know. Part of the the intent, I think is to show people who the who the Dolphins are because those that these those allegations of the Dolphins don't have to do with hiring, They have to do with how they're running their business.

The it said that they were pushing floor as the ownership was pushing flooras to recruit this prominent quarterback late in the season. You're right, then, I think you can you know, connect the dots of who who that likely is in that. Yeah, this yacht meeting that the owner set up where the quarterback just happened to be in the area, took took Flora's by surprise. Um, he is currently Flora's a finalist for the Houston Texans coaching job.

He he was um a fine an interview with the Bears too, in addition to the Giants, so that Texans searches actually ongoing, and he was one of three people brought back for a second interview. So that's just one more. Don't think he's going to get that job. I don't know,

that's just my my feeling. But if if they hired Josh McCown i, which feels like a strong possibility, I think that goes to what he's talking about on a bigger level, and which in which is more the point If you read what this suit starts with in all the stats of the lack of black coaches in the league, that that that speaks to his point if Josh McCown gets a head coaching job over him. Whoa, this is a big one, A big one. People are very uncomfortable

right now in various buildings across the league. I know, I was wondering, what is I wonder what Bill belt check it's thinking, there's just finding I want to see more Bill Belichick text. I want to see. I mean, you can be they're they're they're pretty basic. There, they're pretty basic. They see he signs it with BB. He just says he signs, which is a classic. Oh he signs his text. That's such a boomer move. Does he does he have an iPhone? Ricky? Yeah? Good, good good.

We don't. We don't want another Colleen situation. Android right, all right? And if you know, we do this podcast multiple times a week through the off season, so buckle up, Marky boy, we gotta we got a subplot to track. Now. You thought it was gonna get quiet, and no, I don't think it's. In fact, I only expect every NFL offseason to get incrementally more Madhouse from the one previous. I think you're right. That was News and Notes presented by up Work, the world's work marketplace Learn more at

up work dot com. All right, yes, now we get to the part of the show that would have started the show if Tom Brady hadn't retired and Brian Flores news didn't happen exactly. All right, Brian Dable is the coach in the New York Giants. We're gonna play some

sound from that. But that doesn't that feels a little weird now, Like, well, I will say this, I mean Dable Dabele deserves UM this opportunity based on what he's done, uh in Buffalo, and this is a big moment for him, and I think it's a good higher for the Giants. I don't know if we want to get into analysis of the Deable higher right now. I guess it's now

or never. It does make sense, and I thought it was interesting in the reporting that UM and I think there's some fortunity involved, fortunity involved for Daniel Jones given the draft class and the free agent market that it looks like he's going to get another shot here with a real offensive coordinator who just built out Josh Allen's career, helped build it out. Uh. So you have a a

new GM and Joe Shane. That's aligned to the head coach from the same organization, and now they get to chance to do the Josh Allen treatment to Daniel Jones. If I'm a Giants fan, I'm feeling optimistic, although concerned about the latest story that came out surrounding Brian Forest. I mean, I like, I don't know if I am feeling optimistic. I the one thing that I find is rarely well, it's it's a bit of a can be

a trap. Is hot coordinator X goes to new team minus like m v P level quarterback Y and is going to fix hot and cold quarterback Z. I just it doesn't often work. And I want to see if

they even give Daniel Jones the fifth year option. I do feel like because the Giants have done this in the past with their coaches, you know, you know, Eli Manning would be an example kind of forcing Brian Dable to you know, work with Daniel Jones, not that he wouldn't in this season, but like I see it as a one year experiment and get out of it or if he continues for sure, right, yeah, they they could easily not give him the extension and that and he could still have a chance to have a long term

future there like, I think that's a totally reasonable way to go at the fifth year option. That is, I believed Abel he was. He spoke very highly Dania Jones. I guess what's he gonna say. But I think that's part of the reason why they hired him. I don't mind Daniel Jones. I would like to see him in a in a better situation. I think he showed some

progress last year. I just think if you're looking at the market as a whole, unless you're ready to go swinging for these Russell Wilson or Aaron Rodgers types or who knows what Watson like, I think Dana Jones is a completely reasonable option over everyone else that's available. That actually I wouldn't mind seeing that. It's really the offensive line and the scheme. I think that needs to be

fixed more than anything in your county undable to do that. Look, he had Josh Allen for for two years before it really started getting going, so it's tricky. But Dana Jones has been in the league for three years. I think he's a worthy ty to try out like it compared to a Jamus or a Teddy or a Garoppolo, Why why not try it out with with Daniel Jones. I think Dabel got a lot of credit and rightfully so. Yes, Josh allen Is is ultimately the engine that made that

offense special in his development. But Dabel uh and not just being there from the ground floor with Alan, but he will even after some ups and downs in the first two years, they went into that third year in and kind of changed the offense and said we're putting it more on this kid and putting our faith in him, and they were much more aggressive attack and I think Dabel saw something in Alan and helped develop him. So

there's no slam dunks. I know exactly what you're saying, Mark, but I feel like he is kind of a a safe pick and I just think it's a functional setup because he has a relationship with the gym as well. It feels like the Giants maybe getting on the right track at least from coach and upstairs personnel. Um, that's that part, that part, and you know we've hammered that home with all of these that matters the most. Um,

they were never in sync. In fact, I think it's instructive that um day Ball actually got on the phone with Joe Judge to ask about like his former employer who about to hire him and still took the job. So I mean, not that he wouldn't know, but it's like there was, you know, they worked together a long time. I mean, people don't think about Davil as a Belichick guy,

but he's absolutely a Belichick guy. Had two different stints, worked for more than ten years with the Patriots organization, then kind of saw his star rise when he went to go work with Nick Saban and come back. So it's like we'll get to McDaniels in the second. People, all the failures on the Belichick coachy tree, it hasn't stopped owners uh from continuing to give it, to give it a shot. One quick thing on this is that the Giants tried to hire Ken Dorsey away from the Bills.

That was Josh Allen's quarterback coach. They wanted him to be the offensive coordinator. The Bill stepped up, according to reports, financially, and they kept Ken Dorsey. Josh Allen had publicly stumped to keep Dorsey, and it sounded like that that made a difference and they ended up like matching what would have been a pretty big raise, I guess from the Giants and he's staying in Buffalo. It's funny how having a playoff and two year run like Josh Allen gives

you a louder voice in the room. Maybe that's what Aaron Rodgers has been talking about all this time. Yes, we mentioned Josh McDaniels, the longtime offensive coordinator, an architect of the New England Patriots offensive man who knows Tom Brady very sea. This is all connected in a in a in a big picture away. Let's galaxy brain this thing and see how it's all of one. It's like that. Uh, it's like the p C A movie Mark Magnolia. It's like everything is connected. The frogs are about to fall

from the sky. Josh mcdanie and I love that Amy Man song too, but we're all singing it together, like the first minutes in the last ten. That's a classic. That's right up there with a boogie in a big spot. All right. Anyway, the Raiders see, we give you everything, football analysis and a little film critique, just a little dash, just the show. I'll tell you, I've watched Liquorice Pizza Dan on your record, you finally did one of the best films I've seen in a long time. I thought

you would like it. Yeah, I'm looking forward to and I'm looking well, let's stay on the PC A kick aroun, Greg. One of your favorite films, Phantom Thread. I finally sat down and watched that about a month ago, and quite enjoyable, beautifully made picture, but also I found it interesting trying to figure out why Greg Rosenthal connected with it on the level he did. So we're gonna save that for

the offseas. Extremely rewatchable, um brilliant Punch Drunk Love another great one, but not to the level of Phantom Threat. But the Las Vegas after Banger Yes have hired Josh McDaniels as their new head coach. The former Pats offensive coordinator is getting another shot in a head coaching chair of the Raiders also hired Patriots Director player personnel Dave Ziggler as their general manager, so very similar deal with with Buffalo. Big names in Buffalo going to the Giants,

big names with the Pats head to the Raiders. McDaniels, of course flopped uh in his two years stint as head coach of the Broncos and two thousand, he famously walked out on a handshake agreement to become the head coach of the Indianapolis Colts a few years back, and I remember there was much handrying about how he had just lit his future on fire, would never be a coach again. Well guess what he is. Here's what McDaniels had to say. Things are different now than when I

was head coach the last time. You know, when I went to Denver, Um, you know, I knew a little bit of football. Um, I didn't. I didn't really know people. Uh, And how important that aspect um of of this process and maintaining the culture and building the team was. And um and I and I failed and I didn't you know, I didn't succeed at it, and so um, looking at that experience has been one of the best things, uh, in my life in terms of my overall growth as

a as a person, as a coach. Alright, So here's if he's if he needs to be better as a person to person type communicator, he's gonna have potential challenge right out of the gate, because there's some bubbling behind the scenes that the raiders of many of the players were they were big on Bisaccia and what he had brought to that team. After Gruten resigned in disgrace. Uh in October Mark, So uh will they get on board the Josh McDaniels. Probably, But that's kind of a tricky

way to start your tender. All the guys like the old coach. Yeah, I mean, it's the it's the very unusual scenario where the new hire has to somehow outshine the interim coach and what he did down the stretch, which is win over the entire team because of who Rich Pisaccio was. And I think there's been questions about Josh McDaniels. Okay, look when he hasn't been with the Patriots.

That Broncos team was a disaster in multiple ways. He went to the Rams in St. Louis for one year and had the thirty second ranked offense in terms of points outside of New England. Three of US four worst seasons as an OC have been with three other team or two other teams, So I think that needs to be proven. But he let's he he graces over the fact that part of the Denver Broncos meltdown was a videotaping scandal where they taped the forty nine ers during

before a game in London with San Francisco. So when I hear it, well, where exactly this, I don't understand. The people think I'm mature. People do change. I do think he's probably learned a lot about coaching since then, But I would I would tag it with this. When I think of the Raiders when they were in Oakland, when I think of the Los Angeles Raiders and even the Raiders in Vegas, what is more countercultural to everything we know about the Raiders and over these past decades

than the Patriot way. It feels like an odd fit. I know Mark Davis wants these names, wants these guys, but you're going in with a scenario where again you're saying, we'll make it, we'll make it work with Derek Carr. You've gotta figure out if you're gonna extend Derek Carr if he wants that. But I think the players get in line. I think the fit is an one. Yeah. Seeing McDaniels there with the with the black and white suit and black helmet looked. It looks weird, and I

get why they would want to hire him. I think he's a great offensive coach. I think he's really good at adapting his game plan week to week. Obviously it helps with having Tom Brady, you know, for most of your career. But I think the work he did with mac Jones helped him get this job. He wanted that charger's job last year, and to LESCo had worked with the Colts before and they didn't want to talk to him because because of that experience. So that hurt him

there um, but it didn't hurt him here. I think it's a I think it's a good higher and I do believe him that he really likes the idea of Derek cart because car seems like a good fit for what they want to do. I think it takes a a quarterback who wants to win before the snap um to win that way. If you're going to change your offense each and every week, there'll be more unpredictable. And I think Derek Carr could could be that guy. But you said it, Mark, he's entering the last year of

his contract. He's he's underpaid relative to league average for quarterbacks. He'll he'll be one of, if not the cheapest veteran quarterbacks in the entire NFL. If they didn't upgrade his contract or give him an extension, and so that's that's the first thing that that he's going to have to handle.

And I think it's good that he's going with like another Patriots guy there, Ziegler, because I think one of his big his biggest problem in Denver was not just dealing with the players, but dealing with his bosses, with his GM at the time, in his ownership, and that's what got him blown out there. I mean, they were

He did have a couple of moments. Do you remember there was I think it was a Monday night football game, but I might be wrong with McDaniels getting to five and oh and doing these fist pumps jumping down the sidelines right and everybody everyone was like, wow, this is the new boy Wonder and it all collapsed like almost

immediately after that. I think that was a Sunday afternoon if I'm not mistaken, but he was running up and down the field and one of the biggest like it almost felt like it almost smelling comparity of an NFL coach celebrating it was was back scream in there somewhere as I recall, um, all right, well, and by the way, make a decision on car and just do it either

give give them money. I would say, give him the money, ye, give them a new contract, or trade him because guess what you would get a nice bundle back this particular offseason for Derek Carr. I do believe um, and he's a treatable asset. Don't don't play this out and then maybe tag him or go into some protracted uh contract negotiation Like this seems like a time to make a decision on Derek Carr one way or the other. One quick thing. I'm just the I had a great I

had a great transition set up. It was gonna be so good you can I'm gonna say, speaking of make a decision the Jacksonville Jaguars. But now it's all lost, Greg, this better be good. It is good. It's it's the brain drain in in New England. I know people have left over the years, but think of who have been the most important people to Belichick in the last twenty years. It's Nick Assario, It's Josh McDaniels, It's Dante Scarneckia, and

it's Ernie Adams. Those are the four guys that were there with him basically throughout all the winning those four guys and they're all gone. And I do think there's something to that has he developed like this next wave of coaches and front office guys to be like the guys like we'll see like maybe he brings back Joe Judger Forest like those are a couple of other guys, but those guys do Scarneckia, McDaniels, Cassario, Ernie Adams like those were his like four horsemen and they were all gone.

Right now, that's a bad passmaster, and I think it does that passes. I think that was good insight on one of the more well known franchises in football. On the other end of the spectrum, one of the least known as franchises and football see not as good. So we we gotta think what do we gain? You know, what did we lose? I mean, we gained some great nuggets. Well I'm the I'm listening to you guys just go on,

and it's like we gained great nuggets from Greg. But Dan, I think you had you're a showman and the show, your show was you had to kind of do a second run maybe with not we need to start, you know, doing the zoom thing since we're still taping remotely where it's like I press at my hand raised, So you know, I need to like get in one more thing. You know, you guys, we've not to ruin the flow of the show. Another one and now and now we got her coming in.

But at nine here, you guys just have talked so much that I need to insert a break right here. That old man retired and then the atomic bomb was dropped on our league. It's not our fault. I think Greg had that take about New England. So let's take a break. All right, we're back speaking of something something something blah blah blah. Sports. The Jacksonville Jaguars, they're winding search for a coach continues. They will conduct a second

interview with former Eagles head coach Doug Peterson. Peterson was in the building like a month ago and had, according to Bert Breer of mm QB, trepidation over the setup in Jacksonville, UH, implying there might be you know, heat around somehow. Trent balky still being the GM there. We heard a similar thing about Byron Leftwich, who at one point looked like he was going to get the job, but he supposedly didn't want to be involved with Trent Balki as GM. Uh. There's also Rich Besaccia is in

the mix. He looked like he was going to become the special teams coach of the Bears. But then the Jags were like, hey, bro, you want to come in. You want to maybe be the head coach. We're up to I think ten ten double digit head coach interviews now with Peterson now being the guy that makes some logical sense, but Mark for a job that is on some level as alluring as being the head coach of I know. Now it feels like it's a little bloom off the rose. But there shouldn't be Trevor Lawrence a

transcendent prospect. Uh. Nobody seems to really be running towards Jacksonville to get a big chair. That's how it feels, right. And they have interviewed um Rick Spielm in the form of Vikings GM for what they call a high level front office position. I wonder if that turns into maybe just the general manager position. If if this Trent Balki. I don't know him personally, obviously, but I can't really recall a more universally disclike um individual in terms of reports.

But Houston front office maybe there's a But they're kind of in the same tree. It almost feel like Trent Balky also went away for a long time and then he's come back and he's still very unpopular. So it's enduring. But um it shows against what we're talking about, the marrying two people that can work together. And the one thing I think about Sean conn You know, early on the Jaguars run, it was like this team's innovative there

into international football. They want to be collaborate. They X, Y and Z there, So even though they weren't winning, it was like you can sort of see it and it's maybe revolutionary, but they keep getting this wrong over and over and it just seems to me if you're onto your multiple multiple multiple head coach and GM, have you not figured out the unification of these two positions.

If you look around the league, that's where it works over and over, And instead they've got a guy in there that people dislike, openly report after report trying to shove a head coach to work with him. I mean, it seems like a disaster. It's been some tough reporting out there. I mean the reporting was they had three finalists, one of them is now the head coach of the Broncos.

One of them, was it ever? Flus was now the coach of the Bears, and the third one was reported to be taking the job along with that's left which along with uh an executive Adrian Wilson from Arizona. That clearly isn't happening like and then they opened the finalists round again. It's just if you're a Jaguars fan and I follow I feel more than my fair share of Jaguars reporters and fans on Twitter because I had that

call out. I don't know if you remember early in the year of like, oh, who's a good um, who's some good Jaguars people to follow? And I got a lot of great suggestions John Shipley's great, many other great ones and UH, and it's been it's tough scene. It's been a tough couple of weeks for these Jaguars fans.

They are going crazy in other coaching news. I hesitate here, UM if you could hear it, UH to dig into this because it feels like it could happen any time and UM, maybe we'll have a more thorough conversation about it. But the name is big enough where we should at least get it on the radar for this show. That Jim Harbaugh is a finalist for the Vikings head coaching vacancy.

That's that's from NFL Networks Mike Gara Folo. Gara Folo reports that Harbor is quote deep in the process of vying for the team's head coaching spot as he prepares for a interview that will take place on Wednesday. He is currently the head coach UH for the University of Michigan, where he's had some success, just like he had a success with the forty Niners before that. There is a new general manager, obviously, Rick Spielman out in Minnesota. Quest A Dopho Mensa is now um the GM and they

were both in the forty Niners organization together. So connect those dots as always so hard bought to the Vikings. If I'm a Vikings fan, I'm into the idea of it. We'll see if they could get their man. It's interesting that he's going to Minnesota and meeting with him. I mean that to me indicates it just feels like one of those business deals that they're not going to be meeting unless there's a good chance of closing the deal that they've already done. A lot of Minneapolis in February

is pretty tough. Were well, Plus he's the coach of the Michigan Wolverine is like one of the best college football teams. So to get this far down the road during recruiting season, you know, our guy Ian Rapports said there were at one point there were three finalists for the Vikings job. One of them Demiko Ryan's has taking his name out uh Reportedly. The other two coach for

the Rams Raheem Morris and Kevin O'Connell. Uh, neither one of which can be officially hired because they're still playing and can no longer Like interview, just just feels like if they can close the deal, this this could be hard, boss, So get ready. I mean, we got a lot of enjoyment out of the Mike Zimmer Kirk Cousins relationship ship

slash non relationship. I do wonder what a Jim Harbaugh Kirk Cousins because Jim Harbaugh, like, I mean, you know, he burnt out in San Francisco at the end there, and I think that he's a guy that, like his message is gonna run hot for a series of time and then it he's not going to be there after. Sometimes you can't tell me it doesn't sound fun. Though. This feels like something that's gonna make the NFL more fun to cover one of the one of the weirder personalities. Um,

he's very bizarre with with the press. I mean, I enjoy it, but Kirk Cousins is like a glass of milk, and so it's like the two of them don't totally feel Um. Remember remember when the Hardbull Bowl happened. It was forty Niners Ravens super Bowl forty seven, I believe it was, and and Jim John was like handling all the media. Obviously there's gonna be a lot of media crushed because they were brothers against each other's super Bowl, something that has never happened before. John went along with

it and then went on to win the game. Good for him. Jim was a total weirdo the entire week. We we had a front row seat because we're covering press conferences. Jim was never even like they were. You know, they had the hardballed dad up there and Jim was trying to get off the stage. He is, he's wired differently. But I think like there had been connections to Harbow, to New York teams in recent years. It's like, I don't know about all that you put them up in Minnesota.

That feels like this this could incredible success too. I mean with Alex Smith with Colin Kaepernick, that's one of the boldest and best quarterback decisions and changes. It's in a history the NFL. The fact he didn't go back to Alex Smith and it works so well offensively, Shanahan, maybe you should have paid attention going including yeah, including

the Super Bowl. I think it felt like it was like things were changing in Michigan when the Ravens hired the Michigan defensive coordinator Mike McDonald to be their defensive coordinator this week, and someone made the joke like, well, just like everyone you know, Mike McDonald of the Two Harbor Brothers likes John better. But I think there's a little more than that, you know. I think there's like a little more than that. He literally let his top coach go to the Ravens. Like that sounds like a

man ready to say bye. Um. Finally in the news, gotta love it, Joe, thisman Washington football team legend. He's in the Ring of Honor. You know, he's a big deal. He's a Super Bowl champion, longtime media dude. He went on the Damon amundel Aria. That's a tough one. I've always struggled his name. Gonna call h d A because the DA he calls himself d A CBS radio and he he let ones. He let one slip. And I don't mean, you know, like a gas issue. This something

else happened. There was a slip. The Commanders is a is a name that you know, it's going to be a hopefully one that people will talk about going forward. All right, So, yeah, you like the Commanders as the new team name. Huh? You know, I mean there were there were so many different options. But once again, you know, it's trademark infringement. It's it's getting approval from different people. It's you know, if you choose a name, is there a group out there that isn't gonna like it? I mean,

And then this just this just made me laugh. Then Joe, who seemingly unaware of the Washington is supposed to be announcing the name of the new the new team team name, I believe tomorrow, just starts talking about commanders and what a commander is, which is funny. A lot of commanders in Washington, d C. And the Pentagon and a lot

of different branches of this service. And so to me, that's sort of the way I'm looking at it as as the positions of leadership when it comes to then a lot of commanders, you know down there in the Pentagon. Of course, then the Washington Times reaches out like, hey, Joe, so I guess you just let the cat out of the bag. He's like, I'm gonna hamna, No, I know what, you know, I'll find out tomorrow it's the commanders. I mean, we're I guess an NFL podcast, So you know, don't

come after us. We're not reporting it. But Joe Thsman already told us. Let's know, he talked to He talked for two minutes, just assuming everyone already knew it was the commanders. That just Joe thought it was Wednesday. Maybe he got his mixed because it's such a it's such a first of all, it's it's a typical Joe Thiesmand moment. I missed West on this show like I missed us every day. I miss him being able to put Tom

Brady in perspective. I'd like to hear what he would say, And I miss him for this story, because Joe Tisman opening his mouth and saying too much was kind of a thing West would talk about and note for forever. I mean, Joe Hiesman had a bizarre broadcasting career and a bizarre playing career in which saying things that ended up getting the organization in trouble was like kind of what he did. So it's almost perfect that this is how the name is getting out. I mean, it's like

NFL branding is top secret stuff. I mean, you don't like that's the whole thing. Why did they Why did the inner circle who knew that this commander's name and like, give me a break, which name dropping the Pentagon, Like

that's pure white driven snow. Enough with that business. But the idea that Joiman anti government is brought into the inner circle as a secret keepers that shows you that that Washington is not figured out entirely how to run its own well, they gotta like tell them, you're right. They should have just said show up at at two pm at the press conference and we'll see you there, Joe. And I'm not you know, waving a flag as a

patriot mark. But I don't think he was saying anything specifically about the Pentagon is a pure as the driven snow entony. He just said there's a lot of commanders in Washington, D C. And the Pentagon. Well that's true. I don't disagree with that that those are their titles. So anyway, when the news comes out and there the you know, the Washington you know Robbins or whatever, I like, I don't, then you're gonna find out this is all much ado about nothing but Joe good good to know

you never change um. All right, I think we got everything. It turned into a supersize Tuesday show. That's not what we aim for typically, but mark that somehow sometimes that's just the way things go. We are we are incapable of doing a show under eighty five minutes, and so I don't know what supersizes or regular size at this point. It is what we do and we will not cease. You sound enthusiastic about the product in the podcast and

being a part of it, No I am. I'm claiming more fact that we keep talking and we continue like, hey will be a nice tight forty five minutes to a and then another forty minutes goes on top of it. If they listen, enjoy it. I'm happy that it's that long double it. Let's make more time, more more ads, and that's what I'm really looking for, you know, someone

getting rich, some commander and the Pentagon getting that. I still want to know what Mark was so mad at during the Brady back and forth, but I think it was just generally my opinions. I think that. No, I don't even at this point, I don't even remember back that far. So it was two days ago in Mark's defense, Tom Brady retired. That's such old news. Now, No, dude, you're still recording that same episode. Oh really, all right, we'll be back Thursday. So I think it's our annual

don't say the super Bowl episode. We we we will not utter that that phrase on Thursday's show, but we will be talking about something, presumably, and it will take about an hour and a half to do. So I think we can do on Thursday. Let's see. This is what I'm talking about. It's not that it's not that I have an issue Dan with the actual length of the show. It's this, it's this mystical conceit we go

in with that. It's you know, i'll tell someone, I'll be someone in an hour and then I'm forty five minutes late because this show is a hundred and eighty seven minutes long. Who you got? Who are you meeting up with later? I've learned to say that I can meet no one ever. Now that's my new I've learned by now, You're you're where by now? And would you end the show? Just take us like, just let's go all right until Thursday. Eat the car see spe