Teams We Feel Differently About (with Steve Wyche)

gotta go deep in the well. But I'm I'm in there somewhere screaming that goes for help. Oh no, we gotta what I mean, what a bench we have on the podcast. When you have a Hall of Famer like Steve to tap as, the A t N podcast drops like flies. Cessler still on the mend, was texting with Mark this morning. He's he's working his way back. He's

feeling a little bit better. So that's good. But it's so good to have people like Nick Shook, people like Patrick Claiban and now White who was taking time out out of the extremely busy schedule like for instance, Steve all over NFL Network. As you know, he's doing the Falcon stuff. And then what you got going on this weekend? Labor Day weekend. Yeah, Sunday, we've got the Black College Football Hall of Fame Classic and Grambling in Tennessee State.

Meet Charles Davis and Andrews Siliano on the call, four pm Eastern on NFL Network. But it's it's a showcase game for black colleges, and it's the two kind of most famous historically black colleges in terms of putting players into the NFL and into the Pro Football Hall of Fame. So it's gonna be a good time. That's pretty cool. I mean, I'm lucky here. This is back to back days doing something with Weye she got it. He got on me for not wearing a tie yesterday. It was

kind of like, grow up here. We're on NFL now, you know, start wearing wearing a tie. Bro Um. I did because a guys, I'm gonna I guess you are the conscience. Yea, the I'm gonna some live, some live podcast and a option here, get a little construction done on my house. You have to pause for one second. What's up? Okay, Okay, there we go. That's great content and we're not taking that out, But yeah, that's you know, that's funny. You have construction down your house. I have

across my street. Literally, they bulldozed the house this morning and I was like, oh, what's the estimate on the rebuilding? Like about twenty months? So I got cool. It's a good thing I don't have a TV studio on my backyard. Oh, Man's way to go, Pat McAfee, Way to go, Pat McAfee. There, Dan, Yeah, I know, I can't help it. Sometimes the frustration of

this home office life bubbles over all. Right, Oh my god, Steve's here by the way Erica on vacation, and I mean I just can't get over on the tropical vacation. This week. The Grave Digger, Justin Graver, has done great job filling in for but unfortunately with with Grave Digger here, we can't get into the Steve Weich saw submissions. So next time Steve's on, we're gonna play some of those submissions. And if you haven't set one in yet, White getting

its own theme song. It's a big deal on this show. So what were you saying about that bench? And then what were you saying about that bench? The Grave Digger is not ready for the call up. Well, I think I think Grave Digger is Grave Digger is a big part of it. I mean White is a big part of it. Only Colleen has a song, so you know, there's there's some controversy that you've got a song before Claibon some of the claibon Claibon Nation up in arms

the clay Hive about Clay Nation similar to Claymation. I kind of like that. Um, yes, the I believe it's what is it? Do you graver? Want to know what is our? Do you know the email that people could send submissions to. Yeah, I can. I can find look that up, find that get back to us because uh, I want to roll that out next time Steve's on the show anyway, coming up today. Yeah, it's very simple. It's actually the A t N Podcast at gmail dot com.

Send in your Steve which song submissions? Yes, oh, I'm sure that are gonna come rolling in Fellas all right, coming up on today's show. You know we got you caught up Monday Tuesday. What's going on with news and cut down Day? Obviously, teams continue to be very active as they combed through waivers and the open market to finish that fifty three man roster. It's funny, and it's well, it's not funny to the players at the back end of these rosters, but you make that fifty three men

cut on Tuesday, and then it's even worse. The next couple of days. You have to hope your team doesn't pick up somebody on waivers and and cut you after the fifty three man cut down. That's got to be one of them more cruel aspects of the sport. But with that in the rear view mirror, we're now going to talk about teams we feel better about or worse after training camp and preseason. So that's coming up in

just a couple of minutes. And also coming up one of our favorites, Vic Tafer over at the Athlete that he covers the Raiders beautifully, and we are going to kind of a state of Raiders Nation. You Raiders fans out there sometimes saying, hey, you gotta talk about our team more. While we got Vic and I know why you have a connection with Steve has a connection with literally everyone in the industry. And then Victafer has no exception. Yeah,

Vick was Vix and Miami guy. And when I used to work in Miami, Vic was down there was interning or working, you know, right on both of kind the initial stages of our career. A was a little bit older than him, but man, he is a hell of a reporter. The folks who read The Athletic in Vegas are lucky to have him because he is one of the best NFL journalists that there is in the NFL. He He is awesome, one of my favorite beats to read, always has been. But now you know, now it's him

and Tashawn Reid. I think at the Athletic, who would both do a great job. And because the Raiders, like not only are they fascinating with Mayok and Gridden, we'll get into it. It's like there's leaks like you can you could break big stories with the Raiders still, you know what I mean, Like there's drama behind the scenes, in front of the scenes on the roster, there's questionable moves, like they don't have it all locked down. But that makes them a lot more fun to watch. Well said,

all right, let's get to it before victimes on. Let's talk about this. Uh, you know, the season now is one week away as we record this. The the opener, of course, between the Bucks and the Cowboys, and then Sunday and Monday everybody else. Everybody else plays. So now as we spin forward, let's take one look back here at the month or six weeks that was training camp, three preseason games, um for most teams, and who do you feel better or worse about? Let's start in a

positive way here. Do you want to share with us a team that you feel better about right now compared to say July. This sounds strange, but it's the Buccaneers popped up Joe try On or as Uh the kids call him now try On sho Anka changed his name, so everyone get on that. There's there's a dash in their typhen it's try On showing like we didn't know anything about this kid, and he made as big an impact, I think as any defensive rookie in the entire NFL.

And sometimes that's what the preseason is all about, is just you see a player and you know, like, oh, this guy is not only gonna be a quality third edge rusher alongside Shock and JPB. I mean, he might be better than them. He might he might be as good as them. Right now, they were a little quiet in the regular season last year, and then really turned it on down the stretch. I just mean, he looks like he's gonna show up and play, and they made

it through a healthy uh month. I just sort of liked what I saw and heard out of their skill position group. I think Antonio Brown is healthier and totally ready for this season. I think Chris Godwin, who and Mike Evans who had some injury troubles last year, god would have the Drops in the playoffs too. Like if you watch them and their their little preseason action and heard all the practice sports like they are ready to roll.

Sometimes the Super Bowl champion start it's out like just a couple of feet ahead of the rest of the league, and there's no There was no reason to doubt the Bucks going into camp. But I actually feel even better about them now after everything I've seen, Like everyone's healthy. I think they're ready to roll. I think they're motivated, and I actually think September is the is the wrong time to play the Bucks. You might have a better chance against them in November and December than you do

to start the season. They're gonna start out, I think, ahead of the rest of the league. Yeah, as I Todd Bowls need another toy to play with. I mean, this guy, now, he's I mean he's gonna be drawn stuff up, you know, like who knows what. But guys, I like the Tennessee Titans. I mean, this is who we don't we don't talk about very much, you know, but you know, I got to saw him playing a

preseason game. They've got excellent depth. Um, the backup quarterback, I believe his name is Woodside and I think he's like an A, A F guy whatever. He supplanted Matt Barkley as the backup to Ryan Tanner. Nice player. They've got depth all over the place in the offensive backfield. But then I look at the rest of the division, and that looks like pretty much a catastrophe, right, you know, I think we all, I think we all really liked

the Colts coming in. But now they've got injuries. Right, You've got the whole vaccinated on vaccinated situation, carsonal wentz Um. You know, finally they yeah, yeah, he's back, he's back in practice. But I mean he's missing time. You know, he had the foot injury and he's missing time because of that issue because the closed contact issues. Right, So we'll see. I think they're gonna get it back because their defense is is really good. I'm a big Darius

Slander fan. But then you know, you've got the Texans who are like five years away from being five years away, so that's a decade right before. I'm giving them an opportunity. And then the Jacks, you know, like, look, and I know everyone's get all of Urban Meyer two for sitting here saying the vaccination status played into our cuts and now opening up an investigation. He's just saying out loud, what the other thirty one? Aren't you better believe it?

So but look, besides that, they're still you know, they're still efficient a lot of ways. We'll see what Chever Lawrence can come up with. But you know, if he doesn't get killed, you know, I think this could be a Joey Burrow situation. Hopefully he stays healthy, but in terms of protecting him, that's an issue. So I think the Titans, I mean I think they've got a pretty good roster. I was worried about some of the losses they suffered coming into training camp. I think they're rock

solid and division wise, I think they're clearly the front runners. Right, But do you are you into, of course, they lost Arthur Smith. Here, are you into the Titans as having a good summer by default just because you didn't liked any of the other summers in the division, or do you actually think that there's this team can be better than what they were yet last did one of their games, right, Steve and I did, and yeah, and they're and they're

going to be more diverse offensively. You know, some of my conversations with Arthur Smith, He's like, it was nobody's plan to have Derrick Henry have four hundred touches last year, right, but they had to injury injury issues at the backup spot. So now they're gonna work some things differently. Offensively, You're going to see more and not necessary with Derrick Henry, but you're going to see more passes out of the backfield.

You're gonna see the offense change a little bit with Johnny Smith gone, right, So they're gonna do some things offensively. They got Julio Jones there, so I think they're gonna be a little bit more creative, a little bit tougher to defend, and they're gonna open up the field a little more for Derrick Henry. When he does get his touches, which again I don't think it'll give me more frequent or as frequent as they have been in the past years. I had them written down too, I I did. They

were one of my teams, not just because of the division. Oh, that's a big part of it. That's the worst division in football. Um, But I think they had a lot of positive things. First of all, Julio Jones is back at practice. I was a little worried about that. He just doesn't practice anymore. Now he's ready to roll. I think they found something um in their rookie uh Bold and Elijah Molden. Rather, he's gonna be their slot corner. Like their defense really turned over and that can go

well or that can go not so well. But I liked the secondary right now. Jack Rabbit, Look, he officially changed his name to Jack Rabbit. By the way, we haven't announced that on the podcast, that you have to call him Jack Rabbit. I think us was ahead of the curve on that would always just just call them Jack Rabbit no matter what. Christian Fulton's starting there, like

Bud Bud Dupre had a healthy preseason. Sometimes it's just about like who gets through healthy and who who like that you are a little worried about, like when you changed everything where they gonna have an okay month. I just liked everything I heard from them. Taylor the wands back from his a c O. I'm with you, Steve. I think that feels like a pretty safe playoff team

when I wasn't necessarily thinking that back in July. And I also, you know, I'm of two minds on this because we just did our predictions podcasts and I throughout the cults there as the division winner, because I do feel there is a ceiling here that is a little higher than they're getting credit for if if things click

health wise. But I had them ultimately on the team I feel um less about after the summer because of the injuries you mentioned, and also that schedule which we've hit on, but the fact that they're gonna be They've had a disjointed summer with many of their key players, and we also should mention t Y Hilton, who's indefinitely with this back neck thing. That schedule the first half of the season home Seattle, Rams at Tennessee, at Miami, at Baltimore, a little pick me up home Houston, then

at San Francisco home Tennessee. The team that they could have used a week schedule in the in the front end to get things under control after kind of a hectic summer, but they got the opposite um And you had mentioned Greg the health being important, you know, and it's it should be obvious, but it doesn't always work

out that way. And I'm gonna talk about the Chargers, a team I feel better about because the Chargers, and this should not surprise anyone that follows the team in the sport ranked fourth and waited approximate value loss to injuries last season according to the injury tracking site Man games lost, and just the fact that they've gotten out of this summer with all their stars intact, and they have such a fun, varied roster of plus players Justin Herbert,

Austin Ekeler, Keenan Allen Derwin, James, Joeybosa all should be locked and loaded for Week one against Washington, which, by the way, Chargers Washington one of my sneaky favorite Week one matchups. That sounds that is good about that? It is good and I want to give you know credit. It's it's kind of tricky. How do you coming out of a summer with good health and being locked and loaded for the season. Do you Brandon Staley, the new coach, you give him some credit? How about Anthony Lamondo, the

new director of sports performance. They added a whole bunch of They added a whole a whole new protocol in terms of how they handle practice, stretching, rest before and after, how they handled the preseason. And you know, some of this obviously goes back to luck, and but I I appreciate and I'm sure Chargers fans appreciate that this new coaching staff didn't just say, well, the football gods got the Chargers again last year, and they actually made an

effort here. And uh, I just think the spoon of good health, which could blow up in the second quarter by Week one, of course we know that. But they're locked and loaded with arguably the most exciting young roster in football. And they and their offensive line editions. Yeah, I mean having an offensive line, I mean that was that was an issue, and they look strong up front

right now. That's that's a dangerous football team. Blag has been in and out that that's one of those though it's like they didn't play at all in the preseason. You're right, on paper, it looks good. That's a that's a week one test and you're not gonna learn every I think week one is almost like extended preseason at

this point, especially for teams the Rams and Chargers. Uh, you know, it's hard to evaluate too much on paper, though, you're right, Like Joey Bosa, to me, is such a you know, important part of that team that needs to be healthy throughout. But if you kind of look at the rest of their defense, they're a little thin next

to him. But the linebacker group, like they're excited about the linebackers that they have because you're white, Kenneth Murray, like Drew Tranquil, like that is a sneaky, good young group. They add Asante Samuel and a lot of people noticed, I mean, we're going deep here on the Charges. We haven't talked about that much. That they they cut Tyron Johnson, who made a lot of good plays with Herbert last year, and wow, like people were really surprised at that. And

that told me, like they like their receivers. If he couldn't make that team, that tells me, okay, like i I'm I feel almost a little better about the Chargers receivers. If he couldn't make that team like that surprised me, but it shows that like they like the depth that they have at receiver, which is we don't. We don't not a lot of big names behind the starters, but could be guys, especially Josh Palmer, the rookie, that make

a lot of big plays. One fly in the ointment because I think it's fair to throw with all the all the good vibes, there is a general feeling like, Wow, they got rid of Anthony Lynn and they're gonna solve their game management issues. They were thirty second and expected points added on special teams last year, for instance, and we know all the clock gaffs down the stretch, but

this is good for Mike Sander. At the Athletic they did a ranking of a f C teams and they ranked the Chargers number six and like a vote, but one voter said that remains to be seen if they will improve game game management wise. Their head coach and three coordinators have a combined three seasons of coordinating experience. Wade Phillips had more in so the game management stuff is not a lock. That's that's fair. So I'm just

gonna sprinkle in a little bit. Beware Chargers fans, especially yourself. Is fair because that was not a last year anomaly. That goes back decades with the Chargers. Well, plus I think Daniel Jeremiah is still their radio guy, so that's a I mean, you want to give money a huge extension and then you want to, you know, see what else you need to do. So why we were talking about like whether to listen to podcasts at one point five speed or not. Um that the Move the Sticks podcast,

that's the one. You can listen to it one and half or two, just like, yeah, just just bang bang through it. I love because Andrew Siciliano brought it up on air to White, and White's just the most classic. White answer was like, I'm not looking to speed things up at this point in my life. I'm looking to

slow things down. And I was just like, where we are, Greg, tell me somebody you're not feeling so hot about After this past month, I tried to convince myself the Giants were gonna be like the most watchable Giants since the pre Eli manning. There are just a little you know, a little bit of spice on offense, a lot of weapons around. They had a lame month. Goladay and Kadarius Tony are back on the practice field this week, so maybe they get out there for Week one, But their

offensive line doesn't look any better. And sometimes teams tell you what they think about their own roster with their transactions. They made about like seven transactions on their offensive line in the last week, just like picking up anyone's leftovers and hope and they can slide it in like it

just it doesn't look any better. So if you've got a bad offensive line, a quarterback that's probably not gonna overcome a really hard situation with an offensive line, and a play caller that hasn't inspired a lot of confidence that he's gonna like scheme his guys open, it just feels like the same all Giants. Yeah, you added Golladay and and Tony and Barkley's back, and so they should be should be better. But I'm not. I I think they had a rough month. I'm not into the Giants

right now. That was that was my number one team too, because I mean, Golladay, how many times has he practiced? I mean, it's, by the way, not it's not even just a this year thing, right right, And so I was kind of like, I'm not sure, but you know who else, guys, And you know it's it's weird saying it is the Denver Broncos. I was really you know, I really love their defensive talent. I like their offensive line talent. But look carefully here because literally a second,

he can't even stand up right now. He gets so excited talking about the Broncos, like you gotta just let him know that. Okay, so you've got the Chiefs who can score? Oh wait, they're playing to Broncos. Gets going to Broncos? What Chargers who can score? The Raiders who can score? The Ancles? Can they score? We know Teddy two gloves, right, he's great. I'm sure defensive coordinations right now are flipping out having to face Teddy b apposed though,

what changed? Here's after you here, here's my point. In this era where we're supposed to have all these offensive fin galleys and quarterback developers and things like that, they had very moldible clay. They had very moldible clay, and now some of it on Drew lock Shore. But people I've talked like Drew locked it everything right. But when George Payton came in from Minnesota to be the GM. Teddy Bridge watching this guy, Let's play it safe in

this's win game sixteen to thirteen. That works once, maybe twice in the NFL. Show me a team, show me a team that's routinely held people under twenty points a game, and it's just like, you know what I mean, that's and so three. Teddy can get Hamdlere albert O, Noah Fan, Javante Williams, Melvin Gordon. I think they can't score a little bit. You know, when calling the plays, you're gonna be boy. This is straight out of the Matt Naggy school of victory. I mean, look again, I'm pulling for

the Broncos. I love their talent, I love Teddy Bridgewater. But I look at that division and I look at the a f C teams are are really good. They can put a point. You're not winning. Now if they generate thirty five plus turnovers like the Dolphins did last year, Okay, they have a chance. Okay, they they've got they've got to get the takeaways. But I mean, I was really really liking the Broncos coming in, and now I'm just kind of like you're liking him with lock and then Teddy,

Teddy changes your mind. This is something. Here's the thing though, like they have locks the bed. It's not like Naggie and the Bears because they have so much offensive town. That is what I'm banking on that. It's not just the defensive talent. Yes, you look at you look and it looks like a top five defense and certainly a top five defensive play caller. But I think if you just go weapons, go running back, wide receiver, tight ends, that might be top five too. So you're surrounding a

mid level quarterback with a lot of good pieces. So if you put action, if you put Jerry Judy, Courtland Sutton and Melvin Gordon on the Bears, they're going to the playoffs. Albert Oh no, no a fan? Deep? Yeah, I think so. I think so if you put Teddy on him too. I mean they had Trabisky out there quarterbacks. So is the ceiling Steve to you? And he's not as bad as you think. I'm not saying I love him,

but he's the ceiling to you. Steve Bears for the Broncos, Like if they if they get a bunch of turnover luck on defense and they have a perfect season, in a lot of ways. On defense, they can win double digit games, but still it doesn't make them a true contender because that offense is just gonna kill him. You gotta score in the NFL now, I mean, look, I love I love the talent, I love what they're developing.

But the Chiefs are gonna hang thirty a game, the Chargers are gonna hang thirty game, and the Raiders are gonna hang thirty a game. I'll believe the Chargers when I see it, though, with Joe Lombardi on offense, running, running the player, I just want to see it. I just want to see offense, and I agree with that.

And again I'm not throwing total ship. I am. I was really high and the Broncos coming in, but now I'm just kind of like when I look around these teams in the A f C deep, I've never seen it like this, where one of them having the trouble finding a spot for the Chargers in the playoffs. Who I'm always a huge fan of having a trouble finding Steelers and Browns, Like can can two or three teams really get out of that division when it's that deep

like it it is. I've never seen the a f C this deep, so that part of it, and you've got you've got to get twenty four game and I just don't see that consistent. Let me transition to another team, and I mean, you're not getting that song now. But yeah, you know, Steve, you have no idea how much this quarter because it's like if he won't listen to Mark and I try to ramp down the expectations, maybe the

north star of the NFL media snack the Tito Landrum. Dude, you do you can pull off the bench and put on any position. Um, all right, I want to get this on tape so everybody knows you're not dunking on me on Twitter. I I am very down on the Jets as having a season of true progress this year. I know it seems like I'm all over the map, But there's the optimis optimistic fan ofm me that just hopes for the best. But this was a really bad

month for the j to. It started tragically when Greg Knapp, who was a really respected quarterbacks coach, um dies tragically in a bike accident. Um you know he was uh supposed to be a guy that was really going to help Zack Wilson and then the Carl lost an injury, just devastating to what the Jets need to do on defense. The Vinney Vinny Curry then he's a rotational rusher of veteran not as big a deal obviously, but still then

he leaves for the season with a blood clot issue. Um. The offensive line is supposed to be better, but if you're reading about this team, there's issues on that line right now. McKay Beckton did not have a good summer.

Michael Floor even called him out on it, the offensive coordinator, and I just think if the line isn't ready to roll, uh, if a secondary that is just so green, and then they take and they release Blessing Austin, who is their most seasoned cornerback this week, the court, the secondary is real le dicey. Without Carl Lawson, it's gonna be very difficult to get a push. Um. I like the interior of that defense. But then you have and then on the other side of the ball, questions that offensive line,

an unproven backfield and a quarterback in Zack Wilson. There's gonna be a lot of bumps. And when you factor in which Greg also fact said that this is a loaded a f C, which I agree with. Um, it's gonna be tough for me to to see the Jets

winning more than about four games this year. And I think that I think you could still come out of the season saying we're going in the right direction if they go maybe not for let's say five and twelve or something, but I think this is just the way this summer has played out puts them behind the eight ball. And they were the last team that needed bad breaks, uh this summer, and they got them. And I've recalibrated

my expectations this year as a result. Dan, you pick up an you know, two interesting points and we can have the conversation about offensive line concerns with teams right now. I mean, you know that that's really interesting, but more so, but why the Jets having four wins? When I'm looking at the teams have picked in the top five, six, seven this year, I'm having a hard time to think that the majority of those teams are not gonna be picking in the top five, six or seven next year.

I mean, it's all of those teams. You know, that's not usually how it goes, but I I know, I mean, and it looks some of them will probably slide. Someone's gonna have some injuries and things like that, and it's going. But I mean, just coming into the season, it's like, wow, Okay, Jacksonville, you know, Falcons, the Jets, I mean, what's you know, what's to make you think any of those and some of them probably will get to double dig We just

know how the averages go. But just coming into the season, it's like, wow, man, these all these teams still have a long way to go to seem like they're gonna be effectively competitive. Now again that that'll change. We know how the wheel spend. But I think that's a really good point to the Jets. You don't see more than four wins and that division alone, I mean that that's a tough that's a brutal division, and so you know

that's just something that that's weird. The offensive line play and just these teams are on the bottom kind of making headway. These are two things that I that that's been deep on Tito Landam's brain. Counterpoint this is some Mark Sessler stuff here where like a week ago you

were really literally like playing the Solelujah song. And and then counterpoint number two is the only thing that matters about the Jets, and maybe that's not true in terms of wins and losses, but the most important thing is Zach Wilson, and you feel better than ever about him

after this month. So I feel you You're there was there was some bad luck, and certainly Lawson is the is the number one thing to be you know that's a concern and that's not just but I don't know, I don't to me, it was it was a positive month because Zach Wilson played well. Just put it this way. If Zach Wilson didn't have a positive month, this would have been an outright disaster of a month for the Jets. But to your point, there's nothing more important than Zach

Wilson having a big month. So yes, I'm just I think the Jets can have a successful season without having a nice right, you're trying to protect your protect your heart. Let's revisit after the Jets go down to Carolina, Uh, get that Week one victory over the team I'm putting next that I feel worse about, and that's the Panthers. And that's partly because I watched their preseason game with Donald and I was just like, oh yeah, and still

see m Donald. Uh. I mean, I know it's one preseason game, but remember how everyone likes to say, well, as the starters against the backups, you can't like, uh, you can't pull too much from that. You know, that's what Zach Wilson should do. Okay, Well, Sam Darnald was with a bunch of with all his starters against a

bunch of backups in the third preseason game. Didn't look very good, had multiple turnover worthy plays, held the ball too long, ended up getting like a two minute drive at the end of the half that that kind of saved his day. But I just didn't see the processing, didn't see him like making quick decisions. I think Matt Rule is gonna help him out. I think he's gonna be better in Carolina. But it just was a reminder this is a young team on both sides of the ball.

They have got their own line questions. You're right, Steve, we could say that about five teams, but man Donald could use a great line. He definitely doesn't have one. And I just think I think they made a huge quarterback misfire and in that little extra tape uh cemented it for me. They could have taken justin fields. It could have taken Mac Jones. They weren't interested. They wanted Sam Donald. Yeah, I'm not Caroline. I still have a lot more question marks before I I checked him out

of the picture. I think they're gonna be better. I think, you know, Donald's gonna improve. I think they're gonna be a better team. In one of those teams are going to be like, Okay, you know Matt Rulken coach, I've got a little I've got a little faith in him. I do too. It was one it was just like preseason, confirming my prior views. But we hadn't mentioned that on on this show that I feel like his his performance

in the preconfirmation bias. Perhaps absolutely, but he had If you go watch that half, he struggled and it was starters versus backups, and he struggled the same ways that he struggled when he was in New York. Here here just want to have for you guys. And it's a team. I don't know if I feel worse about them, but I don't necessarily feel better. And that's the Arizona Cardinals.

I mean, I know they've added some some defensive talent and they should absolutely be better on defense with J. J. Watt and Chandler Jones and all these guys playing together. But what are they man? I mean what you know, you still you still don't know when you look at every other team in that division. I mean, Seattle has gotten better up front of the offensive line. We think, we think they've gotten better, you know, at receiver and

some of their other positions to ramps. Clearly if if done somethings, you know, quarterback, some things they want to change. Even though I think defensively, it's gonna be interesting with some of the coaching train that they've had on that staff. Um, in the Niners. You know, we'll see what it's like Arizona. Do you know, do we even think they have a shot to compete? And so that that's a team you can't get a read on in the preseason. But you know, look,

Cliff Kingsbury's coming in with a very warm seat. Um, we'll see what's up with Steve Kyme. They cut another receiver that he drafted, you know, fella or Keishan Johnson. They cut them. I mean, how many how many receivers they gonna draft and cut? That's two from the same class. Well, they're like team no practice. Their team no practice. They're like Team Arizona. Like what Chandler Jones, DeAndre Hopkins, A J. Green. You got a whole bunch of veterans that just like

having practiced, don't practice. I don't know is that gonna Is that gonna work? We'll see, Yeah, we'll see anybody we have any others one way or the other before we what do you guys hear the Vikings? Yeah, I think that's a team. That's a team that that's a team. I think that should be good. But man, not a good summer for the Vikings. I was gonna I was gonna pick them to the playoffs. I did, actually, but no left. Their offensive line maybe looks worse, nor Smith

pretty thin. The same problems they had a year ago looked like they could have them again. But defensive I just saw. I saw a headline like the Vikings solved their tight end situation with the Chris Herndon trade, which is silly. But also how about the fact you just look at the back, not that this is a thing that exists, or maybe it does because there's a bit of a sports card boom or rebirth happening right now.

Look at the back of Kirk Cousins football card, like if he's their quarterback or seventeen games, they're gonna move the ball. And then Dalvin Cook is one of the very best running backs in the league who could do it all. You've got Justin Jefferson. In year two you got Adam feeling there. So yes, I get you lose, lose Irv Smith, who is a guy people are feeling good about. But this team is going to score points still, right, And then if this why I put him in the playoffs.

This is my rambling set up. And if the defense just gets better than it was last year, and Mike Zimmers a defensive coach, come on, this is a ten win team. My crazy no, no, I would think that's an Anthony Barr's back. They've got some pieces back. But I mean, look, I've no Zimmer for a long time, and he's he's like your textbook curmudgeon, you know, and I love him, but good lord, he is like at

a whole different level of curmudgeon. Is um and um you know, I'm you know, I think he's coming under a warm sheet as well, and so, uh, I don't know. I mean, this is a team that that I I liked coming in and I don't know if I disliked them anymore coming into the season, but there just seems to be like some weird mojo. Again, I'm not there every day, I don't know, but it seems to be like some different sauce coming out of there. So they lost some key players too. I mean it's a factor.

And just to clarify, are you referring to the Kirk Cousins drama. They've had some issues with vaccination rates and Mike Zimmer being outspoken about it and Cousins being outspoken and talking about his little plexiglass cube that he might live in this season, you think, and in general from a broader persective, Steve, because you you're so plugged in, like how much of a fact do you think that

could play into this season? The Bills are another team where it's it's obviously a hot point inside the inside that building that it could mess up some seasons potentially in terms of how this plays out. Absolutely could. I mean the Colts, I mean, you know, we'll see this is this is again urban urban Meyer said out loud what everyone else is saying secretly. I've heard them say it's secretly. And this is something and especially when it

comes to the quarterback position. If if all of a sudden, you're rolling your role and all of a sudden, your guys got to take a powder for possibly two games because of because of a positive test or whatever. You know, you're constantly where you were last season, like are we gonna get through? Are we going to get through? Whereas other teams don't have that concern. I don't know. I

think it's I think it's gonna pop up. I mean, I think there's gonna be some issues that popped up last year they are gonna surface again this year, you know, across the whole league for the NFL scheduling wise and things like that. Despite all of the incentives for pet

get vaccinated, Tom Brady's vaccinated. That that surprised me when the Bucks announced today they're at a hundred percent vaccination, right, so we know Tom Tom took that job Dan he did have and the arians has been outspoken about it too. And it works for some coaches, I guess, putting the heat on the team a little bit, and others it seems to be less effective, which adds to curmudgeon nature of Mike Zimmer. Why can't I have the percent team?

Why do I got this? Get these guys. I do want to ask Steve about the Falcon just because he covered them, I don't feel better or worse. So that was kind of thinking they might be a a bounce back candidate because if you look at their their numbers last year, like DV O way and points scored and stuff like that, they were maybe more of like an eight win team that had a lot of bad luck and lost a lot of like heartbreakers, and you know

they're they're not all bad. You get Arthur Smith, you have a real quarterback, Like, what what was it like? First of all, you're in the booth, which is pretty badass, Like you know that that I'm not I'm not trying to put you in a box here, but not a next NFL player providing analysis, not not being the play by play guy providing analysis is awesome as for me to hear just anyone do that, and you did an amazing job. I couldn't believe how comfortable the whole booth was.

I was like, this is better than the Monday Night crew right here. You and DJ Shockley, Um, you guys are great doing those talking teams. What do you think about the Falcons after being so kind of close with them for three weeks. Well, I mean thanks for that. I mean the Falcons frontline talent is good. Defensively, they're gonna be better if they stay healthy. I mean at front seven, they may not have, you know, an individual winner in terms of pass rusher. DNPS is gonna create

some stuff and and man, they've got some linebackers. I mean Foy, oh Lookawan is really good, Dion Jones is really good. They got to got Michael Walker out of Fresno. Man, he's a player. So they're gonna find ways. They're gonna use Dante followers a situational pass rusher. You know, they tried to have us a three down guy last year. That didn't work. DPS. Yeah, d dnp's gonna be created. A j. Terrell is a really good corner. I mean, I know, the film on him last year because you

saw him getting beat sometimes didn't look great. But I mean he didn't have anyone else so so teams could really do some things off. But he's gonna be a good corner. They got some other issues, you know, they've got to work through. But if they have one injury. I mean, if they have one injured any position, that's when you're hitting. I mean, and you know they're gonna have an injury. And their offensive line situation, I mean, they had Josh Andrews a left guard, which was a

major concern, and he broke his hand. So now they're gonna start rookie Jalen Mayfield. Um that like didn't have enough money to sign the rookies or whatever. Mark kept bringing this up that they had no one on the roster, But you're actually kind of speaking to that point that the bottom twenty players on their roster might not be

you know, league ready. Yeah, I mean it's it's gonna be one of those things that if they start for an injury too, they're quickly going to go from a team trying to compete to a developmental team where you're up close with Kyle Pitts too. Is that guy jump off the tape and he jumps off, jumps off, I mean immediate immediately you see that Darren Waller is you know, the Darren Waller comparison in terms of speed, being able to beat guys catch balls in traffic. You know, he's

got a bigger wingspan than than Waller. He's one of those guys you can throw with you twenty times a game. You know, he's he's that versatile. You can line up wide in line, move him, he can block, he competes. He I mean he is like super legit. You know when I saw those joint practices against the Dolphins, you know, the Dolphins and US Eric Rowe is there designated tight end slack eye. You know, that's the guy that I showed on Waller and they and he was giving it

something to Row. I mean, Row won his battles too, but for a rookie, he's just too big. I mean, Matt Ryan could throw the ball nine feet in the air and he's gonna catch it. There's nothing you can do regardless of your coverage. And that's a great tool to have. With Hayden Hurst, Um, there's another option of tight end. I mean, what geez, But I mean Pitts is real. What people really want to know, though, Steve is should they select Kyle Pitts with the fourth round

pick in their fantasy draft because that's what he's going touchdowns? Touchdowns? All right? All right, yeah, there you go. They're not gonna run it in can't punch it in, throw it the pits teams, all the all the listeners. By the way, who sent me there? Roster is full of my faiths from the Fantasy Spectacular. I don't know if I sold my takes better this year, but I don't remember this in the past. But everyone's just sending me all the rosters of all my faiths. So I will lay you down.

And also in fairness, because we did throw some shade earlier. Daniel Jeremiah also a color analyst that does not have NFL experience, so he climbed the mountains. That's true. He worked for a team, but that's that's true. Mina Mina Kimes is another one that stands out. But I love we need more of these. I think they add a lot to a booth alongside like an ex player. It's the perfect, perfect mix. Let's now move straight into it. He is a stalwart senior writer at the Athletic covers

the NFL. He covers the Raiders and maybe nobody does it better. Welcome back to the Around the NFL podcast. Vic Tafer even got his last name correctly pronunciated this time. I'm on fire, how about you? Vic? I'm all right, guy, He's kind of like, maybe I'm the best covering the Raiders. Come on, all right, VIC, so your boots on the ground with the Raiders. This is a big season obviously

for that whole organization. And before I get your opening thoughts, let's just hear from the general manager, Mike Mayock, who spoke with the media this week and made no bones about it. It's time for progress in the form of relevant January football. Here's what may I got to say. We think we're gonna be a pretty good football team. We're not hiding from expectations. I think John and I will both tell you that we feel like we need to be a playoff team this year. And I don't

think there's any doubt about that. And you guys are all gonna put that in your headlines and I understand it, um, but we're not. I mean, that's what the expectation is. We think we've done, um the infrastructure work necessary to put us in position, and we got to take care of business. Well, how say you, Vic, do you think they've done the proper amount of infrastructure work to make this a playoff team. I do enjoy the advice to put it in our headlines. I like to hey, this guy,

this is important. Guys, focus on this. But I thought, I thought, you know, this is obviously year four for John Gruden, so I would have thought last year might have been kind of, you know, do or die kind of year. But I get the timeline. Now we're on it. This year, it's uh, it's a key year for Derek Carr in his contract. This is the last year before they have to kind of getting extension. Mike may X probably himself on the hot seat a little bit. So um,

I think they've got more talent on defense obviously. I think Yannick mcgaquay was a big time signing trade by Morrig. I think is is really good at safety TCU. I still a question the depth and the death is still a pretty big issue for them. So um, but I agree with the whole playoffs are bus kind of mentality. I'm not quite sure that quite there. Yeah, but they're definitely,

you know, getting a little closer. Mak looks pretty like he's in pretty good shapey might be competing with Weiss, is like the best best than shape over fifty guy. Not to aid you there, Steve, Oh no, I'm I'm I'm very happy Vick knows Vick and Vick and I go back to Miami Herald, Vick, what years were you there, like ninety were I was, Yeah, I'm president close old. Yes, we're back there A long time, a long time ago, so I can't remember how far back it was. But

here's here's what I have. Here's what I hear when when people say, like, you know, it's it's a make or break year for the for who Gruden has got the ultimate you know, landing landing pad. I mean for Mayock. I mean, you know, you know, Mike, Mike's great Scott and does all this, but Gruten has final say, I mean, Mark Davidson could pull the plug on Gruten the five years left on that deal. Well, Mayck might have been speaking about himself and maybe Derek Carto, you know, maybe

it's a little bit of projecting. He might know they need to be the playoffs, or Gruden will find someone else too. But it's not the problem here, right Vic, I mean, and Mike Mayock frankly probably isn't the problem here. These these are systemic issues that maybe go beyond the quarterback. This team could score points. We're just talking about it.

Uh and if if Max being set up as the sacrificial lamb here, like if I'm a Raiders fan, am I not feeling too good about the basic structure of this organization four years into this thing, Well that's some bad you know, bad f agent signings, bad draft picks to the last three or four years. And before that you go back, had one winning season in twenty years. So that's a lot a lot of a lot of

bad draft picks, a lot of bad freezing signings. So I think hopefully got right this year and then one big bullet to shoot that was in gotway and he by all means and better, She's gained weight, wants to show he's like a you know, a three down guy. I'm just a pass rush specialist. He's come in. He Max Crosby really connected to their Max is in great shape so that they feel they have like two wheel bona fide pass rushers for the first time in a long time. So for them that's been a huge issue.

I'm staying what I mentioned Mary earlier. They haven't had a real center fielder and safety for a long time. Guy you can actually make plays Bisince Charles Woodson and Woodson was her not what he was in his prime when he was here the second time. So even that's not the high bar you would think it would be. But so they have two guys that ever had defense. And so to your point about Derek Carr, I agree, it's not his fault that they haven't gone the playoffs.

You know, uh, only at one time and it's my my sixteen. But he has to do more. I think the offense can make a jump this year to be a little better in the rest zone, but primarily it's defense. Defense has to make some plays that blew the three games late last year. So that to me is the key the key area this year. Well, it's unfair. Maybe it's unfair to Maya because we don't know who's making

the final calls. Ultimately, it's it's probably okay, we do know it's good, but you can't you can't help but read into the fact that that the Raiders have invested more draft capital in defensive backs, in safeties, the position that Mayock you know, played, is kind of an expert than any team in the league, and they haven't you know, necessarily worked out. You know, they're still there. Like I think Trayvon Mullin could be good dame in our net star.

There more rigs there. They picked up Hayward as a free agent. I mean, Donovan Neighboring has been kind of a bust so far. Like those are a ton of picks, and you kind of you associate that a little bit with Mayock and they're not working out. Like this is when I when he says like we need to be a playoff team, I kind of think it's like, we need to be a competent defense because I've had a big hand in putting together this defense and it's been

one of the worst in the NFL. Yeah, definitely, competency is definitely key. If they can be they'd be like a middle of the road defense. They should be fine under offense will be problems. Top ten last year, it should be fine this year. They got Josh Jacobs. I think he's got a big year. Kenyan Drake is a nice little, uh secondary piece they got. Darren Waller is only gonna get better. And I think that people think he's reached the ceiling, but he's not close. And he

was a receiver in college. He's already in my book, the third best tight end the league. And he wants to be the best, and I'm not betting against him. So I think that's a key, key piece that a lot of teams can't can't defend against. You can't put a safety on, and you can't put a quarterback ground kept on lineback gro on and we've got a really scheme to stop that guy. So they've got a lot of tools on offense, and like you said, the defense has to be not embarrassing bad and then they'll be

we'll mix some progress vic we're talking about personnel. But I think what I think the Raiders may win the best offseason acquisitions NFL. And that's Gus Bradley right coming to this defense. He you talked about a guy who knows how to scheme with maybe not a great and they've got unique and got ways of stud He's a he's a winner in terms of beating guys and double

team and stuff like that. But if you've got a pass rusher in terms of putting another linebacker on the same side, like he'll line up him and Crosby on the same side when you get in the regular season, No, he'll do some gaming. How much to it Gus Bradley likes to do again, leaving the corners out there in zone protection and getting after upfront. Do you think can help out this defense? Yeah, definitely. I think Gress has been a big breath of fresher, not just spyschematically, like

he's making a defense simpler. Guys have to think as much last year and the guys we're trying to think about where they should be in their assignments and the should be able to do that. But last year, obviously it was a problem. So simply defense guys can run and react better. And just in terms of his personality, is like one of the most optimistic, like happiest guys that ever met in my life, which is a huge

nothing with Paul Gunther. Gunther was more of a hardcore, kind of in your face kind of guy, going well gruffly. So I think based on the just on the whole attitude change of this young guys has definitely been welcome as well. So Guss is just like you exactly. Gus and I are like the same. But I'm gonna look, I'm looking into my crystal ball Vic. We're gonna see g I in this later, so just play along and I see nine and eight for the Raiders. Is that

optimistic pessimistic or is it right on? That's probably pretty close. I mean, I think with the Vegas were unders still Saturn a half, which I think is a little low. I think just the offense should there's no reason the offense shouldn't be good the old line. I know a lot of people said they got rid of the three ventered Venteran guys. Ronnie Hudson gave Jackson Trent Brown, who definitely one part of big time guys, and but they should be fine. The death is again questionable, but they

want should be good enough. I think the winning game will be fine. So again all comes out of defense. I think the defense can have to make a big jump on Address Bradley and then Gowth and they can do better than nine eight. But I think my eight is definitely a fair and pretty probably a pretty accurate goal. I know it's a little random, but I don't want to let you go before just because you were there every day, like what happened to my guy Smokey Brown.

He won the award in Mayock and John Gruden won the award this year. And tell someone, tell me if I'm wrong, But I'm pretty sure he got the most amount of guaranteed money of any player across the NFL this offseason that did not make the team, and like Za Jones made the team over John Brown, Like what what happened here? Like this is the type of stuff that does make you worry about the structure that like Dan was talking about at the beginning, like what happened there?

I think when John Brown signed here, he looked at the roster, the depth Charlotte I've got Rugs, Edwards, the draft picks. I get that. I thought he might be their number one. He was pretty good last year and number one. I mean, I don't know, you love John Brown, not Jooning. Brown had a good year last year, But I think his his problem was he came and didn't realize how much of coaches loves A Jones. With coaches,

they loves A Jones Jones. I think he had like fifteen catches last year on a guess and got a million dollar pay increased this year. They gave him one million dollars more than one point fively made last year, So clearly they liked him. Allies and Gray always says, in the best shape for anyone on the roster and smart guy, veteran John loves the veteran receiver. So I think John Brown is probably surprised during camp that hey, I'm below Z Jones and so at some point he's like,

I can't be below A Jones. I'm gonna play. He's good enough to play somewhere. So, um yeah, ideally you don't give a guy three point trew million dollars and then cut him. Um, that's probably as kind of ideal in the ideal world, but you gotta jack up those prices on like the pool season tickets or whatever, you know,

like like hanging out on the sidelines. That the thing if you're if you're just throwing three point two million dollars away, Yeah, that's actually I think as one point seven five was signing bonus and the one point five salaries offset, so we signed somewhere else, So I think you will. But still it's two million dollars. You you're pretty much lit on fire, which is not not good. But again, the history of those team's transactions over the years,

that's not an uncommon occurrence. They kind of they like monning on fire pretty regularly. So, um, is a any Jones plays well? No one's gonna care about this, you know, week six, and I think last year was a big surprise. I don't know if that Jones can do that, but you should be able to be fine in there offense and makes some key plays for him every now and then. And speaking of fire as we let you go, Vic, and thank you so much for your time. You are.

You're a guy that's respected. I'm sure in that building they all love Vic. Maybe sometimes they don't know. Yes, yeah, that's a batch of honor as we all know. But but maybe you could use your cloud within the team to replace the digital flame with the real deal holy field. Get us back the the everlasting flame, the Al Davis flame. Just one thing to work on this season. Maybe if you have some extra time. That's pretty big fire line off that might be dangerous. I like the idea, but well,

I'll see what I can do. I'll make some calls and next time Vix and he's gonna share some examples of the team disliking him, and that's gonna be fun. I'll be good, all right. Do you want me to tell Vic? I can know till the off season, all right, Think best of luck, luck this season, and thanks for joining us. Um, how do I go there? He gave us so much time and it was great. But my one of the thought when I think about this roster is, yeah,

I don't know if Darren Waller gets better. I mean he was basically uncoverable in the last six or seven weeks of the season. If you get that guy, that is going to be more than good enough. And I believe that cars who he is, which is like above the Dalton line. Maybe not a true franchise UM star, but a guy that will win games. Uh. And Josh Jacobs should solidify that backfield. Henry Ruggs twelve overall pick

last year. If they could add one more guy that is a real difference maker on offense, they can win some of these shootouts. Um, and they did well against the Chiefs lash year. As you remember, Ruggs is such a key guy after tough here. I know he's put on some muscles with that old trope, but they kind of need one more guy if they really want to win some of these shootouts. If their defense is only gonna be May maybe two because they don't have Nelson Aghlar.

That was maybe I'm overrating John Brown. Last year. I remember some big games and taken it back by how much you like John I mean, and maybe I'm over ratum, but they're starting Rugs, They're starting Brian Edwards. They love Brian Edwards, they love Za Jones. That they are also an answer to who are three receivers who have never topped five yards or six hundred yards in a in an NFL season before? Like that never, not not one of those three guy have ever done anything? And and

Edwards and Rugs are just entering a year two. That's maybe it's a little unfair and maybe they're going to be great, but they better be right, I guess about that stuff. Scouting, Yeah, especially they want to get past the Broncos, right, Greig, Hey, it's a good Broncos number two chick, it's a good division. I know Steve is

super busy like we are during the season. But if we can get Steve back on at some point once the season really takes shape and we decide who was right and who was wrong about the Broncos, someone gets to have a victory parade over the other guy. Uh. And I'm just gonna sit from the from the stands and enjoy it all. I can't wait. I'm hoping they

live up to the potential. But I'm just saying they've got They've got an average twenty four points game this division to even have a shot, and I just don't know if that's gonna happen unless they get the takeaways on defense, get those fans of points like the Rams got last year with all of their defensive scores. Taking on Steve Weich is not like a smart move within NFL media. It's like that that's a bit like Steve he was back on NFL a M back in the day.

It's like, I don't know where a lot of that that crew is, but Steve still right here, you know what I'm saying. And Steve's in the sas and you're you're gonna get a text about four minutes from now, Gregg from White's being like, don't you ever cross me on the show? Don't you ever disagree with me? Don't you know who I that's me. I'm hard man, I'm hard, all right, Steve tell us, first of all, get your Steve White song submissions in Everybody be a part of

the show's history forever. Uh the E t N podcast at Gmail, Steve, where can listeners find you? This season. I know you're all over the place. Yeah, look, I mean I'm gonna be here from time to time. No podcast, no podcast. The hotal flow has has has met its maker. It's been shuttered. Bummer, Okay, it's it's it's yeah. It's unfortunately in the ether. But you can find me on the Twitter accounts at White eight nine. I will be on NFL Now, Game Day and all other pretty much

NFL media people should check out Sunday. I know, I know that Black College Football Hall of Fame game and you're excited about that. Aren't they going to play? That? Is that different than the two the game they were hoping to play at two Lane at some point. No, no, this this is different. The game at two Lane is is the week after the Super Bowl. That's gonna happen, uh February nineteenth. That is the HBCU Legacy Bowl. That's that's kind of the Black College Senior Bowl. It's gonna

be week. We could work out up to one draft eligible players there for our team, jump scout and all this. Now, this is an actual game, you know, to kick things off between Tennessee State and Grambling, the two of the most historic HBCUs in college football history. It confused me because it's at the Tom Benson Stadium and Canon I got. I kind of like mixed it all up. A good job by Tom Benson. Good job and as you know at Tulane, like the Benson's also helped fund Yolman Stadium.

It's like Yoman Stadium at Benson Field and everything at Lane University. So yes, depends on how they're hing a lot. And and speaking of Benson, shout out to everybody in New Orleans, the Gulf, the Gulf Coast, especially in the past. We're seeing in New Jersey, New York and Pennsylvania, Delaware too with the storms. Many they're going through it, so we can only wish the best for them. What's that The Raiders have just signed K J. Wright? Okay, Bradley Link,

Bradley Link, Grave Digger hit the drop. I can't believe he was out there for this long. He was six. He was number sixty seven to one. That was risky moved by Grave Digger right, as we're you know, and in the show over the line there of whether it's worth the breaking news. kJ Right was ranked in our in our top top fifty. I think free agents available so I think it just cleared the line. That is that that was worth it. It was a top one

hundred player, Top one hundred players, number sixty seven. He was just out there until now pick up, great pick up. That's Grave Digger and hit me the hit me to the drop again, Grave Digger. That's Grave Digger. Like he's he's four of six from behind the arc at the y and all of a sudden he just pulls up from twenty eight and says, let's see what happens here and guess what. Swish baby. That's one of the Yeah, you better make it or else. Everyone's looking at you sideways.

It's like, who do you think you are? Steph Curry? But he connected, he connected, He rattled. It in very interesting to watch how the Raiders they're they're fascinating team this season and we'll see how it plays out. Thank you, Mr Weish, you're the best. And Greg. We'll be back tomorrow well, yes, on NFL dot Com and then on NFL Network after that with the Around the NFL broadcast.

It's our final hour long show before we go to a two hour show in the regular season where we'll embrace a new format that's gonna give you coverage of every team every episode. We're really excited about that. Will

tell you more about it as it gets closer. How long do we have to wait till it's like polite to ask Steve to come back, because we've got two hours to fill Steve, we're gonna it's gonna be when the Broncos, when the Broncos are eight and one, I'll be right there, Okay, okay, awesome, alright, so make sure you check that out and follow Steve. Thank you, Grave digger for filling in so beautifully all week, and we will be back next week, which will be the week

of the regular season's beginning. Beautiful till then heed the call.