Steve Wyche & Matt Rhule

I wouldn't say clothing exasperated. They're pretty exasperated. Yeah, I mean, I feel like there's only so many moments in life where you feel like you're living through history and and you could imagine that will be something that's gonna be talked about for a long time, decades, even will be taught in schools. Hopefully in this case, it becomes a

catalyst for change. UM and it what happened with the death of George Floyd in Minneapolis and now nationally, protests that have been going on, demonstrations, many of them peaceful, some destructive, and including in our city here in Los Angeles, UM, and just sitting at home or if you're out and about in the city, it's all it's all really surreal, and it's all set against the backdrop of a global pandemic, profoundly dysfunctional political landscape we're in right now, and it's

just all that is just hard to process. And our job obviously is primarily, um greg is to talk pro football, but real life sometimes steps to the forefront. So that's where we are at the top of today's show. I mean, it's something that it feels, it feels it's it's right to talk about where we are in life right now, with this country and in the world right and we will get to uh, we will get to the football and get a Matt Rule interview. We're gonna uh, we're

gonna play. We'll talk some other random news too. But yeah, it's hard to avoid talking about it when it's our our reality. Um, like Santa Monica right now, we're taping this in the afternoon. We're already on curfew. Um, we're not allowed to uh be outside right now in Santa Monica checked out, you know, some of the damage that happened yesterday in the town, and it's obviously dispiriting, but

it is different. I mean this it's hard not to think back to to Ferguson and all the other incidents of produce police brutality that this country has talked about and faced over the last decade. It's hard not to think about that, and hard not to think about from our point of view Colin Kaepernick. Um, which you look, Steve, Steve Weisch's with us. He he was the one who broke the story about Colin Kaepernick. Um, you know, first healing on the sideline, And it's hard not to think

that this this time, if if, if nothing else, it's different. Um, it's like a hundred and fifty cities, this is happening in right now, and so that's different. I don't know, you know that that that more people are talking about police brutality. I don't think that as many people are getting as distracted by like red state blue state stuff, because it doesn't it's not about the state. You know, look at our state, Like, it's not about red state,

blue state. It's about police brutality and that and that conversation is happening, and it's it's a painful one, but it's like a it's unavoidable. Yeah, I'm gonna try them to hear it's it's it's it's more about right and wrong and for whatever political landscape or whatever you believe.

Blue lives matter, Black lives matter. There is no way any human being with the souls could have looked at a video of a person dying with somebody's knee to his neck, two other people on that man's body, and then somebody playing lookout and not be upset about it. And I think that's why, Greg, when you say this is different, there were always excuses before he should have complied. Um,

he had a criminal background. There was always something to give somebody peace of mind, while murdering an unarmed black man was justified. There's no way you could look at that when you saw this man's lifeless body on the ground for three minutes and smug Derek Shauvian with his knee on his neck and his hand in his pocket. Uh, seemed to be just like thinking about planes taking off our sunsets in Jamaica while this man's air is being lost in his body. That you could sit by and

and be okay with that. The aftermath with these provocats, wars and agitators vandalizing and breaking windows and looting, taking away from the positive protesters is sad, But people like me had enough. I had enough this comes on the heels of Ahmad are Y and Brianna Taylor, where so many people are in my opinion, participating in cover up there just saying well, you know, that's just another black body gone. And that's what people when they say black

lives matter, that would it mean. That's what it means, not that they're superior to anybody else, but that they actually mean something um in the overall landscape. And again that's why this it's different. We'll see if anything comes out of it. You know, they they've already changed the out of the prosecutor in Minnesota because they had no faith in this person um to actually go after these police officers. It's already out of his hand. So a

salute to that. But in all these other stage where this crap has been going on and is still going on, the cover up of the actual ugly act, that's what needs to start, is people need to start being held accountable. Yes, Steve, I I love the way you just expressed all that. And you know, I think we're all in one similar boat where you know, we're at a time where we're

house bound um for many reasons. And you know the fact that coronavirus has been buried as a b storyline, because this is um much more striking and more critical to who we are as people. And I, you know, I am in a state where I'm just sort of observing and trying to make um, to listen and make sense of it all. But I feel like what I've watched over the past three or four days that um, like nothing in our country will ever be the same.

And that's a good thing. I'm thankful and for one thing, that that video was captured, because without it, I think it would have just been another um, hideous incident that sailed down the river without much notice. Because it was captured, because we because anyone with with a beating heart inside of them, are horrified by what they saw. UM. It forces us to confront and frankly, you know those of us with children, UM, you typically maybe hide their eyes

from some of this. I and my my feeling is the opposite that if things are going to change, it starts with the people inside our own home scene. Um, how how wrong things are and how as you said, corrupt, Um, the system is from the deepest levels outward and so uh, you know, I total change from here on out, and it should be served as an eye opener unless you are walking around is a total zombie. And that's you said, Mark,

You know nothing will ever be the same. That that to me is when I look at like the big picture of all of this, To me, the jury is out on it. And I really hope this is the catalyst UM, and this will be different than the other times. And it does feel different. We're old enough, all old enough to remember the l A Riots and ninety two um. But this seems like UM. And there is a call for it not just to be black and people of color speaking out, but white America also getting behind this cause.

And I feel like that's different too. You sense that as well. Will it be enough to to spark real change?

And on the on the subject Steve of the NFL, the NFL obviously has a seat in a chair and the history of all this going uh in recent history about the idea of police brutality and social injustice and Colin Kaepernick, who who seems to becoming a bigger and bigger figure in American history by the day, and especially now, it almost feels like what he was doing when he was kneeling was pression and it was in a way that was clouded by all the political stuff and all

the Trump stuff. Now it's so clear it should be at least what that was all about. It wasn't about not being good in American It was about hey, this this is going on this stuff and now, maybe Steve, what with the advances and camera phones and the fact that people are getting more more fed up, not just black people, that it's going to lead to a real change.

The Kaepernick side of it, how do you think and the NFL side of it, Steve, Like they release a statement, Obviously it doesn't get received well by the greater public because a lot of the greater public beliefs that the NFL did not do right by Kaepernick on the issue and hasn't done enough UH to support UH causes of related to social injustice. How do you think the NFL, beyond a press release saying that we're going to continue to work with groups, can actually make positive change and

not just positive words on a press release. Well, I mean, look, it's it's it's accountability, that's you know, like you I'm with you, Dan when you said we'll see if it makes change. Because we've heard this before. Remember four years ago, today election cycle Um, you know, that's when Colin Kaepernick took an ee because you had all of the all the unarmed black people over the previous couple of years. You know, Tamir Rice and Michael Brown and everybody getting killed.

We're still here, man. So in terms of the NFL, to me, it starts in their own house. And and look, I'm gonna air a little dirty laundry, but it is what it is. Where the people of color calling any shots. And I'm not just talking about owners, I'm talking to league office. What are the people of color at our network? You guys have black or Latino or Asian supervisor? Have you ever? I've never worked for a black editor. I've never worked for a black boss, Latino, Native American, Polynesian.

They've all been white men and white women. And so to me, by having legitimate action and diversity in your own house instead of a press release, instead of seventy black workforce that people see on one days, but having it in your own house other than Troy Vincent and other than our river on Um, that are legitimate, not hires to make you feel good, but are legitimate hires where people are in on decision making powers at our network. There are thirty plus VP senior executives, and I think

there are two or three of color. And they allow us the freedoms to come on platforms like this and speak our minds and one. And that's great, but where's the Where is someone for me to aspire to? You know, who do I look up to to aspire to? Um? And so I think that's where it starts. And I also think guys like you and other people in the league, just in private conversations someone's dropping in bombs, are saying this and that. God, I can't believe these people are

are breaking up buildings long here. Why they're breaking up buildings because this is the twelve million time we've seen this and nothing has happened. We've got your freaking attention, right. It may not be the positive attention, it may not be the thing that honors these deceased people in their families properly, but we've got your freaking attention. And and that's you know, and that's how a lot of us feel.

M hmm. I think, UM, you speak to something that there's a lot of statements happening right now, But that's action, I mean, that's that's taking action. And look, black black people in our lives have been telling it. It's not a new thing, uh to know the problem with the police state that black people have in this country. The new thing is cell phones really and hopefully a new

generation um kind of speaking up. But I do think the NFL is in in an interesting place because of Kaepernick, and we we talk to bet on the podcast then how you know him not coming back into the league, um, and just everything that they went through. You even knew then that, look, he's going to be one of the most important NFL figures we've ever covered. And you knew that. You knew that then and and and that's growing even

more so now. But I do think it is interesting too to think about where at least the league was publicly then and and a lot of white people, frankly were publicly then, where it's like there was a lot of division even among the owners of what in coaches of how we're gonna handle this, and a lot of a lot of teams did not want their players kneeling, and we remember that, and a lot of coaches didn't

and then different ones wanted to do it in certain ways. Okay, you can do it once if it's with the owner and then that's that's it. Whereas I think today you're seeing, at least publicly, more of a rush too, with a lot of them to uh embrace you know, the right message of fighting police brutality publicly. And I do wonder if like and you see a little bit more with

white players speaking of like white quarterbacks. UM and and and of course you know, you can say a lot of it's pr and this or that, but Kaepernick helped open that that space and that change and even even the social justice you know, initiatives that the NFL has done like that that is I think of reflection. So it does put the NFL and in this interesting spot even compared to other leagues I think of of what

happens from here. But I would say this, it's it remains shameful what happened to the Colin Kaepernick message, what it was about, and what it got turned into by um people unwilling or unable to embrace it more unwilling and if anything, when I mentioned, I think there is a bit of a polar shift that we've now seen it with our own eyes and we cannot deny it. Um And it's not new It's been going on for

a long time. Kaepernick is validated entirely by this, and I will not listen to anyone with a different take on that. I mean, and in the league should realize, um, that it could have been handled completely differently from the start. Um. Yeah, So we'll continue, obviously, UM to talk about this and talk about it from an NFL angle and however we

feel like it's important. And and Steve Um, you were at my last thing I was just thinking about with Kaepernick was I think it was last November the workouts for Colin Kaepernick when he had a public workout for NFL teams. It reminds me that he, at least what we hear is still wants to be an NFL quarterback. And how many years has it been since he played? Now? What what do we is? This gonna be the third

full season full season? It was? You know, he he first sat down from the national anthem in ten so he finished out that season and hasn't and hasn't played since. Pretty unbelievable we have. I was gonna ask Steve, just you help. You did some roundtables today, I know for the network. Did anything come out of that? Oh? My goodness. Uh so powerful. Um, Jim Trotter did one with Kurt Warner and Dr Todd Boyd a let's say, a current affairs sociologist, pop culture sociologists. There's a lot of stuff

with athletics in black history. And that's down from Kurt tweeting over this weekend what can I do to help? Because I think there are a lot of non black people asking that question because they're sickened and they want to know. And Kurt and I had a great discussion Sunday about it, and so that panel was honest and frank and a lot of historical context to future solutions. And then i'mvirated one with Josh Norman, Josh McCown and

Mike Robinson and man, just it was raw. It was raw. Um. Josh Dorman talked about this is racist, this is bigotry. Black people are fed up. But he was also a solution driven and the solution driven is kind of what I've talked about on the small scale, talking to your kids, like you're talking about Mark, talking to your kids about when you see something wrong, like your friends avoiding another little black kid because he's a black kid, go play with um, you know, to just things that are far

more macro. And then Josh McCown, another member of the player's coalition, and of course a white quarterback who has been very active for years talking about how black people walk around life with a weighted vest, right, whereas and he drew this great comparison. It's great analogy as to he said, he's had a different offensive coordinator every year of this what nineteen twenty year NFL career, so he was always learning new offenses. While the incumbent quarterback knew

the offense, it was preparing for their defense. So that person had a leg up. So he says, White America has always been that incoming quarterback. You can you can attack the opposing defense. You have that leg up um, whereas black folks are the guy coming and just just trying to figure out how to navigate enough to survive.

And you know, Michael Robinson very passionate. We had some great conversations about Brian Flores and his message and how not only was he inspiring, but how he called out people who were awfully noisy during Kaepernick his some of his colleagues, and how he's had two separate loose friendships because where are you now where some of his bosses. I think was a subtext that I read into it.

Maybe yeah, very very much so, very much so. And isn't an interesting how some of those bosses and the players who who are no longer they are being far more outspoken about subjects like this than they ever were. Kind of makes you think a little bit. And I know, Dan, we we are going to spend to two other NFL news. But it is interesting because people say, you know, when they say stick to sports, it's like this is sports because all the coaches and players they're dealing with this today.

You know, Frank Reich, they put out, um, you know, he had a statement to the media, but he talked about what he talked about the players. It's like, there's no avoiding. This is what the coaches are talking about. This is what the you know, the owners, whether they're releasing a statement or not. It's like this is that they're having to handle it. It's not like there's a choice to go just like run and hide. When that's your when that's your workforce. Oh, if you avoid it,

you're losing your guys. You avoid it by because you could buy and Steve, I know you're gonna continue to be part of the conversation on NFL Network this week, so make sure everybody you follow along for those important conversations. Uh, Steve, would you mind sticking around for the rest of the news which I wouldn't say it was at the same level of importance, but it's pretty close because George Kittle doesn't have a new contract yet, so maybe we should

talk about that as well. I always love hanging out with you guys, all right, but this is what's going on in the kind of news of the NFL. H We'll start with Mike Silver, our own Mike Silver of NFL Network whup reports that the forty Niners and George Kittle to start tight end are quote far apart in extension talks. Will see um what happens with this. But Steve, I mean, Kittle is one of those dudes, one of those dudes that you absolutely build a team around. And

Austin Hooper. I believe Mark Sessler's Austin Hooper is now the highest paid tight end in the league. And I believe the agent said, I don't care about the tight end market. I'm being paid to do a George Kittle deal. He will be expensive couldn't the Ford and Niners afford And I guess that becomes the biggest question. Yes, Um, look, they've clear a lot of cap space. Is one of the reasons why they traded the forced buck. Um. We're seeing the same thing going on with George Kittle that

we with Jimmy Graham. I'm a tight end, but I got wide receiver numbers. You say, I don't block inline, so I'm a wide receivers. Give me that wide receiver money, give me that. You know that big Stefon Diggs. You know those the sixteen seventeen million dollar numbers, and you know the course that went to arbitration or whatever. And Jimmy Graham was a tight end and George kid is gonna get tight end. But they're they're gonna have to pay him. And this is one They've already got their

quarterback on a big contract. You know, they've got a couple other big deals. But you can finesse, you can work these numbers. This is you know what what wide receivers making big? What offensive skill player other than Jimmy Garoppolo is making money? None? Right, you can work this and you know you've got you know, d Ford and You've got some other defensive players making big bread. You know you just paid Eric Armstead, Kwan Alexander's making money.

But uh, play that franchise tag game with George kill when it won't go well. I mean well, I would just say, I mean what the concept of back pay. Uh. This is a player who has given you a hundred and seventy plus catches over the past two seasons, yards, ten touchdowns and made right made seven dred nine thousand dollars last year. Uh. But Jimmy Graham comparison is is

so apt. And you go and look, when you go into two pro Football Focus and you dig into the positions, nothing is weirder than the tight end position because the rankings are all out of whack because, uh, we've dealt with this before. You get one Jabroni who can block really well, but he had eight catches all season and her heart right ben Hartstock the number one tight end one year. There are distinctly two different positions. Jimmy Graham

played the different version of tight end. George Kittle plays it times too. I mean, I he has a better argument to make um an incredible paycheck based on what they've given him for what he's produced. Well, no, he's he's a fascinating case if you're into contract, because he

should be making more than Julio Jones. I mean that he should be making double what probably the highest paid end to me had Jimmy Graham's not a great comparison, really, I understand at the time it was like an argument, but tight ends are so underpaid if they're as good as George Kittle, who's who can change the whole offense in terms of the the off the defense doesn't know what you're gonna do on a play to play basis.

He's such a good blocker, he's such a good receiver that of course, to me, he's worth as much as an a J Green or a Julio Jones. And that's almost like double what any tight end is making. I really think like tight end should just be pissed at Rob Wronkowski for the contract that he signed earlier in his career. I know he did it with two years left at his rookie deal, but tight ends have been underpaid ever since because he took a totally below market

deal for his entire career. And he's the greatest tight end of all time and everyone else got stuck just being like, well, you're not as good as Gronk, so you're getting slotted under that like Kittle, and I think he's gonna try is gonna try to do it. Leby on Bell unsuccessfully did for running backs, which is just blow up the entire market for tight ends because they're all underpaid in these trying times. Everybody together, Now everything's

Belichick's fault. Your love it this? This is your favorite subplot of the Hey, we mentioned Matt Rule is gonna be on the show today. It was actually an interview we did Friday for the Around the NFL broadcast on NFL Network, which Steve Weiss, you know it all ties together sat in last week for the Chris Westling pregnancy chair. Um, although we have waste of dinner, if nothing else, we have drive through a taco bell still open. But anyway, Rule will be on the show. Will play that interview

back on the podcast and just a little bit. But he has someone in his cornerback and his cornerback group that he needs. It's Eli. Apple signs a one year, three million dollar deal. Uh it went uh nearly two months between when Apple's deal with the Raiders fell apart at the beginning of Free to See. Uh and uh actually seventy one days until he agreed to terms with the Raiders, so more than two months. Uh. And this was a with the Panthers. This is a spot mark Sessler.

Uh that Carolina needed help at Apple is not a big star despite being a first round pick. But he should bring something to that group. Yeah, and that's Friday Show. We each had to pitch UM an NFC South team to win a division, and I was tasked with the Panthers, which is, you know, in that field of four teams, not the easiest UM pitch job. But you know what,

it's markets heroic. But I know most of your time padding yourself on the back for taking well it's I think it's heroic in the scope of being a football blogger, not in a larger um, not in the larger context of things right now. But uh, you know of your foot, yes, I well I do that often. It's UM self defense mechanism. But they lost James Bradberry. Uh. You know, I was interesting when Greg did his UH Starters piece that you mentioned the human being named corn Elder as a potential starter.

Had they not found anyone else so this keeps corner elder at Bay. Yeah, that their their cornerbacks are bad as bad as they were in the league. They feels like they still need another one or two. Looking at the division right m they're gonna score some points. In other news, Eagles wide receiver to Shawn Jackson says, quote, it's it's gonna definitely be a culture shock if NFL teams are playing in empty houses this season. Uh, in the event that there is an NFL season, we're still

hoping that happens as well. Hey, listen, there's a lot of stuff going on in the world right now. Uh. He was on Jackson on the Lane Johnson podcast Outside the Lane, Get It, and Uh he talked about what's something, what's something that the NFL could do to juice the telecast and the event that there is no crowd to add that adds that natural excitement. Here's what d Jacks had to say. I think they should mic up players. They should give fans the insight to see what really

goes on between the lines. It gets crazy, bro. I know in the trenches it gets crazy, and I know on the outside it gets crazy. To the conversations we go back and forth on Steve. You know what it's all about in the trenches. You know it is, uh like covering these guys being in the locker rooms. Is this the best idea ever or the worst idea? Oh?

It's awesome, so good. The thing is, I mean, you have to put a disclaimer coming out of every break that you know you may hear some language that you're really not comfortable with, because it's it's going to be slow. He started doing it with the thirty thirty for thirties on ESPN. They give you the option of the clean and dirty feed. Maybe that's where NFL telcasts are heading.

I would love you get the clean feed. But I mean, I just would be awesome if you made Belichick players, if you made the Patriots get miked up while they're going eight and eight this year, you like, I mean, I'm just sorry, I just better. But I mean, come on, it would just be absolutely just the wide receivers and dvs alone, well, and Mike's might not to be might not even need you don't mean you might not need

that many Mikes. I mean, UFC has done this a little bit since they've come back, and you can start hearing everything in the state you know, you can start hearing everything because there's no crowd that you might just you know, like you have the mics on the center before, you might hear a lot just coming off of that. Like, I think there's something to it. I hate the idea

of fake crowd noise. It seems so so stupid to like Falcons didn't seem to be opposed to it a few years back, but ahead to make an artificial situation if there's no crowd, that like, it's a totally unique thing and it's gonna be weird, but like that's what you're watching. Let's let's be real. Sports are real, and you might you might get some good john back and forth.

And could you could you see coaches or just certain coaches totally bumping on the idea of this where you know, mid game, you know, it's one thing if it's released, you know, six days later as a special, but mid game, you know, hot Mike picks up various play calls, scheming scenarios, and Bill Belichick's head explodes. I don't know if that's what they're looking for. Well, and and also injuries right yeah over there, that that's where that that's good. Nope,

that's a good point. It would really take one terrible injury for everyone to say that that's a bad idea, not good Yes, and point. The uneducated might not know that Steve Weiss playing big time Division one football at Missoo and his younger you didn't never play a game. You never get into a game. You never got on the field, never got on the field. I saw some really good players there were played against Wisconsin when they had out two and who might be the most incredible player.

Never see him. It was like six four hund pounds and just absolutely destroyed US State when Jimmy Johnson was a coach. You know Therma, Thomas Hartley Dyke's uh that's Oklahoma at Bosworth. You know Tony Casillus, I mean incredible. Here's here's a great one. Hardly a disappointing first round pick for the Patriots back in the day. I think I had a shirt and he didn't really come through.

But here's a great one. So we came up. We were all yellow uniform for the first time the seventy year anniversary since the last time Missouri warned them, which should have been a hint that they weren't going to look good. On TV. We're playing Notre Dame when Jerry Faust was coaching, and they were massive. They had Steve Burline, Mark Bavarro, Alan Pinkett, Tim Brown. I mean just first

round draft picks galore. I think they finished six or five that year and we had them on the ropes or field goal kicker miss like a thirty five yard or you know, we love we lose the game. But I was like, that team should be eleven and ow I mean they they you talk about watch the team get off the bus and you're like, oh, they're different. They were so huge. Man, there was Mark Bavarro. Had I played, that's would have been going up against it would have he would have had a great seems like

a tough fellow to me based on the anecdotes. That's like when we get off the off the NFL media bus at the Super Bowl and everyone's just like that. That's why we go on slow motion as we've put our sunglasses on. Um. Why you are I I find you to be one of the most well respected and just everyone likes Steve, which like why she is just like one of those dudes. If anybody was ever to get a Rudy scenario where he's like, I'm not playing. Steve's a senior, it's his last game. If he doesn't,

we're not taking the field. If there's not a white at Rudy scenario, then that's that's on Miszoo and your entire organization, the team over there. Bro, nobody would have cared, man, nobody would have cared. We would have going up against Cansas, our arch rival, and lost again, and uh it just they would have blamed it on me. I'm trying to think. I don't think. I don't think Sean aston Um would be a good guy to play you in the movie. Who would Who would play Whitish if there was a

Rudy scenario? Oh, man, Denzel maybe young Denzel? Oh his son, but his sounds too short. I think somebody you go a little c g I and you get Denzel, the young Denzel the same way they've given you, you know, young all these other stars in these various We might have to ask your wife about that. I'm sure there's a male celebrity that she says, oh, you look like you know what? Rock? There we go. I was thinking, yet,

get the offer out to Dwayne the Rock Johnson. I guess we need a time machine to make it a situation as well. But anyway, Steve, you've come and you've as always delivered an incredible performance. Maybe didn't get on the field at Massoo, but you're an m v P on the Around the NFL podcast and a valued member of the NFL network, and that perspective that you gave us at the top of the show is frankly necessary.

We love to get it from you, So thank you as always, Steve, and best of luck this week because this is a different one. We've been working together for a long time, but this is not like other weeks. No, appreciate you guys, Appreciate the conversation, Appreciate all you guys do because you guys, you guys are a window and not a mirror to society. Man. People can see the future through you guys instead of looking back and see themselves.

I appreciate you guys. Thank you, Steve. Thanks Steve, You're the best buddy. All right, Steve, wife there he goes. He gets a well deserved glass of Shardonnay as he gets ready for what lies ahead. Uh, gentlemen, we mentioned Matt rule. That's what's happening. In the news. By the way, we mentioned Matt Rule in the interview that we did on the Around the NFL broadcast, which again you can check out every Friday on NFL Network six pm Eastern three pm Pacific. There are also re airings late at

night and in the morning. I think our show is better drunk. And I'm not condoning alcohol uses, especially if you're underage, but if you are someone who likes to have a few drinks on the weekend to unwind, I think our show is even better. Greg actually his performance and his his copy score numbers go through the roof when you have a few whiskeys. That's what I score out. What does that? What does compy score number? I don't know what was the boxing uh measurement? Wasn't there something

like that? I can't remember. Com Sky com score tells you like how well your websites doing, I think, But what you're right, We're on a ten pm Eastern and I think, you know, and eleven pm Pacific. You know, you know at different times, so you're right. You can get a late nighting. You can get like the next morning six am or ten am. You know, Uh, what is copy score? Let me see what this uh IT has.

We are a full time family owned company that has been timing athletes for over thirty of years, so that was a very analogy there. Swim events, triathlons do all pons uh televised podcast, biking events, Derik clients are more so Gregg's compuse score rises as people in BIB alcohol. It makes total sense now that we know what the company has involved in anyway. We had Matt Rule, the former bar Baylor coach and a man that my father in law, Bob Bates, absolutely adored at his time down

there in Waco. Now he's the head coach of the Panthers. And here was our conversation with Matt Rule, including a little speed round at the end. Enjoy joining us now we're so excited to have him, Matt Rule, the head coach of the Carolina Panthers. Matt, welcome to the show. And is there any way you can have that music underneath you at all time with throughout all your coaching duties in Charlotte. I would love nothing more than to

walk around with my own theme music. Um, Matt, it's you know, even in the best of times, being a rookie NFL head coach is a challenge. But you it seems like you're entering the picture at a particularly fraught time. You're entering a division that has a perennial Super Bowl contend or favorite in the Saints. All of a sudden,

Tom Brady's in the mix and Gronk. You have no traditional offseason activities and oh yeah, the organization decided to move on from the most popular successful player in history and Cam Newton and franchise history. This is a challenge. I know you just rebuilt bell Or from the ground up, but this one, this one feels like a tough one. What are your thoughts? Um, You know, I'm excited about it, you know, I mean it's not like I, Um, I didn't walk in eyes wide open in terms of haying

that there's things we have to do. But I'll even you know, amplified even more. Like of the ninety guys on our roster, I've probably actually physically met maybe twenty, I think like a played for me of them. So like, um, I could be walking down the street tomorrow and and and and bump into somebody and they can be playing on the team and I haven't actually met them yet. So but you know what. There's two sech everybody you know now, no it's it's not. But if you don't

what it's like anything like that, you know it. You know these these these this adversity, these obstacles, they forced you to try to be at your best. I know this. I know myself as a head coach, my assistant coaches, being in the virtual off season, I think we are better teachers now than we were a month ago. I think being home and being a like an ad teaching my kids has made me a better teacher than I was a month ago or two months ago. So um, just trying to take the positives out of it and

not worry too much about the negatives. Wow, I need some homeschooling tips from you. Then. I don't know if I've gotten any better. Maybe a world podcaster, I can tell you that. Man. I wonder maybe Teddy Bridgewater is one of the guys you met. Maybe not, but I wanted to ask you about him because you know, these two clowns on the on the other side of the screen from me, they like to make their little jokes about Teddy. They talked about his air yards per attempt.

I mean they like him as a person. But they said, I think he's not as exciting as a order back to explain to me why you guys wanted to bring him in and thought he was a fit for your system. Yeah, you know, Um, I had a chance to coach against Teddy my first year at Temple. I actually put up the statue the other day for our team. It was like five or thirty five or three forty eight. I mean,

he just destroyed us UM. And then I went on to watch them in Minnesota without knowing really well and watched him, you know, take you know, um, take a team to the playoffs, I think in year two whatever it was, and then have that terrible injury, and I think, if anything you wanna know about Teddy, just just go back and watch the game he comes back and finally plays, and watch his teammates. Um. You know, I'm a big

statistics guy. I'm a big analytics guy, and and they're they're really important, but they only tell about half the story. The best players in the world bring up the best in their teammates. And I can tell you since free agency started, the amount of guys that want to come that want to play with Teddy has nothing to do with me has nothing to do with the They they want to be a part of what he's doing because

he brings out the best in people. Then to watch what you know, he you know, had his little brief stint whatever with the Jets. Watch what he did in New Orleans last year. And so we're getting ready to play Georgia in the Sugar Bowl. We're practicing at the Saints facility and he's out there by himself with a couple of guys and he's still on red zone route. You know, Drew is gonna start and he's the backup late.

I think it's you know, the game before the playoffs, and I'm watching him throw and I'm watching the way people respond to him, and I have no idea. I'm gonna be in Carolina and we start a little you know, jog through in Taekwon Thorne is this great young receiver for us from Miami, and Teddy walks through our practice

and he walks over and says hello to him. He's, you know, maybe eight years older than him, and he's talking to him, chopping up when he comes over and he's like, hey, coach, sorry to interrupt your walk through. I just I sat there and told him. I said, Teddy, I just want you to know how much respect I have for you, having coached against you, having seen what you've done, haven't seen the way people respond you. Man,

I just I wish you the best. So you fast forward a couple of months and we have a chance to get him here. I believe so wholeheartedly and who he is as a quarterback. Um. I believe in his abilities. I believe in his arm strength. I've believe in his accuracy. I've believe in his decision making. But beyond that, he's gonna make everyone else that much better. That coach like that, Well, the question for you, we're sold. I. I here's my question for you, because I just wonder from a um

you've come to the NFL. People talk about the lack of experience on the coaching staff, which I think you kind of have said, forget all that business. We're gonna we're gonna attack this the way we do everything else. But it is a is it a bit of a mental polar shift to have your mind occupied with like how do we shut down a sophomore three technique from Rice University? To now in the middle of the night, you're thinking we've got Drew Brees to deal with. We've

got Matt Ryan to deal with. Oh and by the way, they you know, Tom Brady is gonna leave the golf course at some point and be shoved into a Bucks jersey. The NFC South is stacked. I mean, is it is it for you? Just starting a game plan for these guys that you've been watching for so long? Um at all? Uh? Striking mentally or a challenge? Well, I mean, you know, take out the xs and os. I mean, Drew Brees and Tom Brady are not in. Matt Ryan aren't great

because of just the XS and os. They're They're great because of who they are as players. And so I would say this, I would say, you know, go go be a Go be a defensive coordinator, Go be um go be a head coach in the Big twelve. You know, deal with you know um uh you know Jalen Hurts running quarterback counter one way with a speed sweep the other side with an r PO in behind it. Go beal with quarterback onrue every down. Go deal with option football.

You know, we're at Temple and we're playing one week we're playing the spread. The next week we're playing Navy. And playing the triple you know, the XS and os can you know, can sometimes be really challenging in college way beyond you know, the more traditional stuff you see in the National Football League. What the difference in the

National Football League is the matchups, is the expertise. And you know, I brought a lot of guys that I brought with that were with me at Baylor because I believe they're the best of the best, and a lot of them I brought I got from the NFL and convinced them to come to Baylor. You know, there's a lot of money in college football. I could pay them pretty well. Um, But you know, we we brought Jason Simmons in as our defensive pass game coordinator from Green Bay.

We brought Al Holcom, who has been a defensive coordinator in as our run game coordinator. We've brought Mike Fair in from the Annapolis Colts. So we tried to bring in a bunch of great, great guys with me from Baylor, and you know, supplant supplement them with a bunch of guys from the NFL. I really like our staff and I think I think we'll do a good job coaching over the next couple of years. Alright, Matt, so far

we're all impressed. We think the Panthers are gonna go nineteen and oh but you know what, we haven't done anything. Ex we haven't done the speed Round. And this is where champions are made on the around the NFL broadcast. Are you ready, Matt? Yeah? Shot, I have no idea. Who's coming. Hit the music, hit the music, Here we go. Sopranos are Game of Thrones. Oh wow, that's like the Soprano Springs Theater. Bob Jovian, your uncle is married to

your an. Some people say, ah, Cessla says Hunt, it's weird. Best Tarantino movie. Oh um? Who pick to say flat Earther's what's their deal? They don't get the whole story. The age that you live until? What is the age you live until? Uh? Yeah, I'm I'm going on early. I'm saying between seven. Oh my god, have you read Art of War by Sun Zoo? I legitimately have. Wow, if you haven't read Art of Ward, coaches talk about you behind your back? Maybe just felic? How is the

pizza and Charlotte be honest? Um? I love New York to be deeper. Jersey Shore of the happens Cursy Shore I have about the eight and eight Thurty floor. Are my jets getting a star in Denzel Mims? Yes? Final question, you plan to keep doing it? Keep well? You you did it. You're a champion. Matt. You you killed the speed round and uh, we thank you so much for joining us. And like we said, not a traditional way to start your NFL head coaching career, but you sound

like a guy that's gonna get it done. So the best of luck to you in and beyond. Matt Rule, Thank you, guys, appreciate you all. Stay safe. All right, Mark, I have to say your ability to keep it together during the Rule interview was I mean kudos, because in terms of man crushes, you have to go all the way back to maybe Kyle Shanahan during his o C days to find someone that you have adored as much

as Rule. I put petting up there. I think I learned firsthand when I'm little Debbie visited the studio and I just went silent for about fifteen minutes while the three of you knocked that interview out of the park because I didn't know how to what did or who I was. Um, we're all the Beatles concert in a backstage of laughing because I totally forgot about that. That is a sneaky great so I think about it daily.

It concerns me daily. But um, you know Rule was you know he was were used to this point seeing all sorts of people in the fourth square on our show or the fifth square. So, um, you know, I did my best to uh get one question out there. And I don't think I did a great job with that question. That if I critique that show, I had a kernel of a thought, um, and it went totally sideways with a question that went on for about four

minutes longer than it needed to see. I didn't remember that. Well, you know, you have two self critique when you're watching it late at night. You got that beer in the hand,

thinking well, I had have done that better. If we um, if we had time my next question there, if we had time for one more question, I was going to ask Matt Rule seriously, um, if he was ready, uh to handle the pressure as Mark's new coaching crush, I would have maybe used a different word than that, but just that you know, he might not know this, but every year there's a coach that Mark kind of fixates, you know, an offensive mastermind and whether he thought he

could handle that sort of thing, and it's often not going well for those people. So you know, Laser, we haven't seen Lazer was it was one of the originals back in the Yeah, tough sitch for Laser. Philippo was another one. Patton, Oh, he caught some fire. Patton, of course. Um, Patton's back on his feet for now. Patton near, very nearly got. I feel like he was maybe a little closer to getting shoved out the door than people realized by the end of last year. Better and might be

the best Browns coach of the decade. Yeah, although I would say probably they let shann hanging out the door. Please, we didn't need to go out ahead you mentioned alright, So Kevin, Yeah, the Fansky answers his first year with the Browns, rules, first year with the Panthers. You got Joe Edge, who we talked about on Wednesday's show, entering his first year with the Dream And who's the other

debut coach this year. It's Mike McCarthy being a new coach and not a first time coach, Mike mccarth in Dallas. And we could open this up to new o cs and dcs. But UM rule it feels like and we talked about it in our conversation as you just heard that it's a he's in a very challenging situation and we didn't really like dived in too deep on the Cam Newton stuff because who knows how much say he

really had in that. But that's that's a major kind of cloud hanging over rule that he might not even have control over about how his quarterback ends up playing, how Newton's career continues. Uh. But it feels like rule with Christian McCaffrey. With some pieces, he seems to have his stuff together. It's gonna be a challenge in year one, but you feel like he could be set up for

success down the road. Where does he compare to some of these other new coaches and coordinators out there is anyone else that jumps out to you that's in an especially good spot or can verstly a bad spot? I would say I think Stefanski is in a from a roster angle, UM, you'd like to think he'd succeed right away, if not very early. UM. But the overall Cleveland experience UM leaves you just sort of wanting to see it. I don't quite have the idea of institutional nightmare in Cleveland.

I mean, like one part of it looks great, and then it's like the actual history of the organization the last twenty years, and it's like, how could you ever think positive? But that's what does that even really mean? Ultimately? You know? Right, and I would he has a fresh start, He has a fresh start, right, I'd offer this that UM Andrew Berry I think has like kind of on the under the radar for a GM who's been there for three or four months, done an incredible job. And

I'm not I'm looking that through UM. I typically look at their front offices thinking there's probably a disaster looming behind the scenes. But Stefanski and Andrew Berry Um every time they were asked about it, seeing each other's praise and seemed to be on the same page. And the pattents and all these guys we mentioned from behore before, we're in owner opposite scenarios where they were battling their front offices and being undermined by them and text messages

down to the sidelines and suspensions. So I think Stefanski set up to succeed Uh. This year. But I have a much better idea of who Matt Rule is, UM, And I really just believe and your and to your father in law his support of Matt Rule and what he witnessed with his own eyes as a dug in Baylor fan, He's done that everywhere he's gone. So to me and I, you know, I've said it over and over.

It's just I get kind of like college to pro Jimmy Johnson vibes, and I just think that, Um, I really think Matt Rule is going to be the story of the NFL. H. Yeah, Baylor wasn't at the level obviously of Penn State. That was unprecedented, But Baylor went from this organization or this college program that was kind of an eternal also ran in that region, and then Art Briles came to town and r G three exploded on the scene and it turned them into a powerhouse.

And then scandal brought that whole thing to the ground. And as with my family ties, I fall her pretty closely that or that that program, it appeared to be in a position where they had exploded, and then the way that things went up in flames that they might just go underground for decades and be a just an afterthought in the college football scene. Again, the fact that he was able to come in and rebuild that program.

I think he went one and eleven the first year when they just had all sorts of issues and they were just trying to get on their feet. But after that point they became one of the top programs UH in their conference and in the nation. And if he can take that same ability to a team build and obviously you could say it's apples and oranges college and pros,

but you just get the vibe. And I'm always a sucker with with Um not to like keep our focus on Rule, but I'm kind of a sucker as a New York, New Jersey guy for the straight shooting New York New Jersey guy, the guy that seems relatable and he seems like when you were a younger, the type of guy like your friend's dad that had his together type guy, and you you imagine that he would just be successful in life. That to me is Matt Rule and that a guy like that engenders a lot of faith.

So I'm with you, Mark that I think that he could be a very good hire. And yes, do I think what I take the unknown with Matt Rule over the what I have in hand with Adam Gaze absolutely um, But I think the I think the Panthers have somebody there that that you can get excited about for sure. Well, he he combined a few things at in college, and I think he's shown that he might be able to do with the pros, which is it's it's the team building and the organization building, and it's the scheme. It's

the combination. The great coaches can do both. And his you know, his coaching was extremely inventive, so he seems to get it whatever it is. But he also is you know, bringing Joe Brady from LSU and to get back to the whole thing with Cam Newton. I mean, I assume I've assumed Matt Rule percent made that decision, or that he was the biggest voice by far. I assume that everything in the Panther organization, he's the biggest

voice by far. And I know, I know ownership UM is going to be part of it, but I think David Tepper is signing up for Matt Rule to be that guy. And I think when you heard him talk about Teddy Bridgewater, look, I think I think they there was no mistake that they they released that statement that Cam Newton can seek a trade the day before they signed Teddy Bridgewater, when you can assume they basically agreed

to terms with Teddy Bridgewater the day before. So once they knew they had Teddy, the guy that they wanted to go after, and it's it's less money. He doesn't mean he's gonna be there guy forever, but it's the guy that they wanted to go after for this year who's played for Joe Brady, his his offensive coordinator. I mean, I assume they they looked at the Camp situation and thought, for whatever reason, I don't want to deal with that, and I do want to deal with Teddy Bridgewater, who

one of you know, our coordinator knows well. And uh, I think that rules set up for success to because they don't have to win, Like if they go five and eleven and they're an exciting offense, everyone's gonna love Matt Rule at least this year in terms of public perception. Just scored some points and people love Matt Rule. Whereas Stefanski and McCarthy, they're gonna have high expectations. I mean,

they're they're gonna be expected to win. Again, Matt rule, Like what a six seven year contract I mean has to have if if they go seven and nine again, it's like, well, um, Freddy Kitchens got US seven and nine and everyone's talking about him like he's the worst coach in the history of the US. So that's it's actually kind of a high bar for first Kevin US

history of the US. I've never heard people abow talk about Freddie Kitchens like like he is the worst coach ever basically, and like I get it, he did a bad job, but like he was not the only person in that Well you know who doesn't think so Joe Judge, who hired him to come coach tight ends, I believe. So you know, these guys keep powering each other no

matter what happens. Well, the one thing we know about Freddy Kitchens because we've got a chance to meet and talk with them, like he seems like a totally cool guy that loves football and is passionate about it. So maybe sometimes the guy's just not right for the big chair. And the Browns learned the hard way that that appeared to be Kitchens and faith the one guy might as well just touch on quickly. I think McCarthy is the

best set up for success in Dallas. But also, and I think you've alluded to this a few times to mark this offseason, he also is under the most pressure because people are gonna expect the Cowboys to win that division. You can't really say that with the Browns and the

Giants and the Panthers. McCarthy is gonna need to get that team going in the right direction and win ten eleven games or he's gonna be seen as, uh, oh, we hired the guy that was burned out in Green Bay and is still getting the same type of results, so that there's some pressure there. But he certainly has, especially on the offensive side of the ball, an awesome set up. Don't discount the epiphany that he had during this year away from UM the Gridirons. So you know,

I think that's probably the secret sauce right there. I think you hit on it that they like, you don't hire McCarthy to like rebuild and and like develop young players. And you know, it's like they hired him because they're ready to win now, which is okay, that makes sense. And they kept calling Moore, they kept calling more because they're ready to win now. I mean, they are one of the you know, invade in the desert, and I've already seen among some of our cogniscente they're one of

the favorites. They're one of the like, top five or six favorites to go win the whole thing. And I don't think that's that crazy when you have that good an offense, I don't. I don't think it's crazy. I can also think of other years where they're the favorites because their Dallas and it's presumed that they'll roll into the NFC title game. I mean, they've found a way to not do that for twenty plus years in a row. But um, what could go wrong? Um? All right, man?

You do not like Mike McCarthy. No, I like I. That's more of a Cowboys have viewed themselves as a super Bowl team since and all of a sudden, you know, Mike McCarthy can't even know that. I really wanted to get deep into it. You could almost read this. You always mentioned the you know, the epiphany and the off season pr that he did. I mean, if I'm out there in Tom pell and I'm Tom Palaicero, and we

know he doesn't listen to our podcast. But if he did, who kind of put together the biggest piece about McCarthy. I might take some offense that you're coming after my work. Well that is not true. But if you want to fire back, go look at anything I've written for the site over the last three months. I mean, what is

talk about unnecessary fluff? Very hard on himself to no. I just I you know, I look at I question the nature of um, you know, sitting around on your phone reading like eight thousand hours of sports articles right now. But at people are in different situations. So I've also moved on epiphany wise, I am now all on the Baker Mayfield. I'm not gonna talk trash anymore. Epiphany. Okay, that's the epiphany I'm all for. Now we move in silence.

He's gonna like he's gonna like show up to games like like a ninja outfit on into just like little small letters, silence you know on his alright, move on to the next part of the show. Whatever you guys have cooked up. All right, let's spend the wheel. It is time to um the Wheel of Teams, which is our weekly deep dive into one team in our league.

It started off with the Arizona Cardinals. Last week we had our buddy Bob Glauber uh talk the New York Giants and now Ricky Hall and hey, Ricky, how are you? By the way, how are you? Ricky? I'm okay. How are you guys? There's hartly Dike's the former Patriots first round receiver. Yeah, no, such a bust's that's it, Ricky. I heard there's there's demonstrations going right outside your window

to helicopters going on. I just got a notification that Kurfew went from six to five pm in about five minutes. The helicopters are are unnerving, So there was helicopters the entire day, nonstopped yesterday from the morning until about ten thirty pm. It went away and then they were back around and I was like, well, we're in the morning today. I was like, we're doing this again, but for the most part they've left. Yeah, it's scary out there, so

stay safe, Freaky Hollywood. We're gonna spin the wheel and find out which team we will be diving deep on on Wednesday's show, Erica. Are we ready? All right, Ricky? Spend the whale by bay? All right, let's go Dolphin big moment Broncos and Broncos the Tennessee Titans. Well, look at that mark one spot away from the Browns so far, I think it's better for the show that we we're gonna have a twenty minute conversation on the Browns anyway, So let's go Titans here. I feel like we've overcorrected.

Though we used to joke that we never talked about the Titans. To now after this show, we've almost talked too much about the Titans. We talked a lot about guess what it's coming more tight and stuck they greg and we know that they knocked off your Patriots and ended Tom Brady's New England career with a pick six. You don't have to take it out on them that they were just doing what they were trained to do, which is win a football game. I enjoy I enjoyed

their Their little run reminded me of some early Patriots teams. Um, so yes, we will talk about the Titans on Wednesday show, and we will talk. We'll get our heads together and pick someone from the Beat or someone connected to the Titans to speak to as well. So tune in for that all right before we go? Uh we I just wanted to talk about some of the guys and and uh, I know this particular person didn't necessarily want it to

be something that was a big to do. But we have a well trod saying here at the A T N podcast that we deliver football news with a touch of mirth. And that comes all that comes both directly and indirectly from Dave Damashek, who if you're paying attention, and released this final episode of the d d FP yesterday, and the phrase is how Check would describe around the league news write ups on NFL dot com penn by Mark and I years ago, news with a touch of mirth.

And uh, like I said when he was on our show last week, Check is the godfather of mirth at NFL media before he came and didn't exist at least not in any form that was funny. And Mark and I didn't follow a traditional linear path to get to where we are. We started out as part timers in two thousand ten, and I I think for for me and Mark, I think we're in the same boat on this. There was two people at this company that really um

believed that us and gave us a chance. One was justin Hathaway, our old news editor who hired hired both of us within a month of each other in two thousand ten, and then about a year and a half later, I want to say, when they were relaunching the news division of dot com, UM had us be the editorial voice of it, and so Ston was a champion of us. And then Check. You know, I had no experience talking to him like zero. I never did it in college. I never did it after college. I was thirty years

old and I was tired at the NFL. Mark, I know you didn't. You weren't someone that came from any deep broadcasting background. But Check started to have us on the podcast UH. In fact, they looked it up because

I was feeling a little nostalgic UM today. And it was July nine, two thousand twelve, when Dave had Mark and I on the show for the first time, and we were on a few times, and that gave birth to the A t L Debate Club, which was a weekly mini pod featuring UH, just Mark and I tacked onto the back of Dave episodes, and then that spun out into UM. About a year later, Greg and West now in the Fold, and the UH This podcast which was the Around the League podcast and it's now the

Around the NFL podcast, of course. And I was thinking about all this history this morning while listening to Dave's last show with and I know, like I said, he doesn't want us to make a big deal about him, and I know our relationship with him is going to continue, and we look forward to having him on the show again down the line, and maybe we'll cheat life one of those checks sayings and and attended Dodgers game one of his weekday Mattenee's once the World to gain some

sense of normalcy. But as a podcast, I just wanted to say thank you today, both for the opportunities and for being such a fun person to work with all these years. And uh, I can't wait for what comes next from Dave because he's a truly talented and good dude. Yeah, i'd say real quick that. You know, I think justin Hathaway um encountered some resistance when he tried to put us in those roles of writers with opinion attached to the writing, and I'm sure Dave did too, and we

never would have known about it. But the thing I could say about Dave is that that was um you know, almost ten years ago when he gave and if you listen, if you go back and listen to that first encounter with him on his show, I sound like a scared fifth grader. I mean, I I am off frame, no opinion of worth, and I don't even know how to speak into the mic at that point. But UM, the thing about Dave is that since that time, I think he's done that for about fifty other people who would

have never naturally been given a role on any show. Uh. And you know it's it's some people from out of left field. And UM, I just think that that's who Dave is. And he, you know, he he could have said forget that. And even as our show became what it was, Um, it's the one person I always thought of that we never would have had our show. Um without Dave, one of us at least would not have been on this podcast, if not both of us, I

don't know how it would evolve unfolded. But um, it doesn't happen without damnishek not not in the way that it that it has. He's he's a mensch, you know, to use the word from Dave and Isa, you know, I mean, he he's a wise man. I mean he should after Siren as many children as as him. He

is wise. But I do think of like a lot of his sayings like cheating life, Like I'll catch myself cheating life and think of Dave in that moment, because he has a way of like putting things, um so perfectly and then repeating them over and over so you never forget them. And it's like he's he's like inside of all of our heads sometimes. So what better compliment to a broadcaster than that. And we know he's gonna do other m great things, So I'm looking forward to

what he's uh he's going to be announcing coming up. Yeah, and I might get it. I don't even know. I might get an annoyed text from Dave for us even talking about this, but I just thought it was important just because of all the things we just said. He was such an important figure to us. So best of luck, do you, Dave, and we will hear from you, uh down the road hopefully soon. All Right, that's it for

today's show. Good show, good conversation, important conversation, and we'll be back on Wednesday, yes, talking about the See Titans and um whatever else comes across our plate, so thank you everybody for listening. Until then, this is Dan hands As signing off for the Quiet Storm the Old Boss rick Hollywood. Stay safe there, Ricky and everybody else Steve Wish of course, until Wednesday