Sean Payton Steps away from Saints; Rams Talk with Jourdan Rodrigue

Did you get Do we have the drop? Ricky? Maybe we'll add the post that you put it on a spot there, considering she is your co host on the Split Ends podcast, to put her on the spot and make her producing seems subpar interesting play there. Like you, I'm just pushing her to get better, to be better, we should all push ourselves to be beat. That's a good friends and good quality and a friend. And that's the kind of friend that you seem to appear to be.

Since we haven't had you Connie on the show in a few weeks, I want to give you the opportunity to share your feelings about the legendary quarterback Tom Brady on the eve of his possible retirement. Oh love you bro? Wait what was that? Tom? Love you bro? Do you love Tom Brady? Share it? I love the way that he plays, But you know, it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world if he decided to hang it up and spend some time with his family and his

production company. Whatever he is going on. I mean, I don't know he's Honestly, if I'm being completely serious, I think that we're going to look back at this era of football and Tom Brady and be like, oh my god, I can't believe we covered him in at the height of his of his powers, and he's been so good in such a staple and taking him for granted is a really easy thing to do. But also it's Tom Brady, and it's also very easy to hate on him because he's so good and because no one else has ever

reached what he's been able to do. So I don't know, Well, you know who doesn't take him for granted? A surprisingly serious answer, right, A guy by the name of Bill Ker. Bilker appreciates every moment, and I think you should be a little more concerned with Bill Cower's emotions. If Tom Brady does retire. That's who I'm worried about it. Yeah, it's more like middle aged white men in football media or retired coaches that seem to truly fall for Tom

in a perhaps romantic way. And and maybe Tom, if he does retire, maybe he goes uh and take some time out and moves from Tampa to Miami, maybe of sand where you were going with us? You want to see me up one more time? Yeah? Um, what do you think about Tom Brady? Do you want to share any feelings about the man the way others have? I love you, Tom, That's that's what you're looking for. Right. We're gonna get to Tom Brady and what's going on with Brady. It's the start of a saga that I

still believe in my heart is going to stretch over. Uh, not days or weeks, but years. This is step one long time player begins to moral retirement. It becomes a story every winter for about two to three years, then becomes a reality. Could be wrong though? Could be? Could this could be it for Tom Brady? We shall see. But Uh, today's show is a good one because we're

gonna get to Um. Jordan Rodrigue of the Athletic who covers the Rams and it's going to give us a bit of a deep dive on where the Rams are at, both in terms of their journey and where they're at mentally. It's a very interesting team when you start kind of peeling back the layers of the players that are at the center of this. The coaching staff. Obviously, the coaching staff has some major demons to slay here with Kyle

Shanahan and his six game winning streak. Greg, I feel like if if Kyle Shanahan defeats Sean McVeigh for a seventh consecutive time for the NFC Championship, that is the type of bragging rights that no boy genius comes back from. I don't think McVeigh survives it. Um emotionally, there's a lot on the line there. Well, their friendships certainly doesn't

if if they are even still friends. I feel like, um, nothing rang as false as Kyle Shanahan trying to say that him and Matt Lafleur are still friends too after he tried to go get Aaron Rodgers last offseason. There's there's no greater revenge though, than Kyle Shanahan just destroying assistant after assistant of his old states Like I made you, and I'm still better than you. Yeah, for sure. UM, so we'll we'll get into the rams with Jordan's We're

gonna hit a bunch of news. But before we get into any of the other Brady stuff for anything else going on the league, we got to talk about the huge story that broke on Tuesday. Sean Payton and the Saints are no more. Let's get into the news. Mr Goodall is on the phone the commissioner. He didn't stunning news. Perhaps not stunning because there were some breadcrumbs along the way over the last several days, but Sean Payton's storied

run of the Saints is over. UM rap Sheet originally reported it on Tuesday that Peyton was stepping down his head coach of the Saints. Fifty eight years old, leaves the team uh sixty plus games, over five hundred nine postseason wins, a Coach of the Year award, a Super Bowl title. UM, and now he's stepping away. He had a pre conference on Tuesday explaining where he's at headspace wise.

As everyone speculates what happens next. I still have a vision for for doing things in football, and and and I'll be honest with you that might be coaching again at some point. I don't think it's this year. I think maybe in the future. But that's not where my heart is right now. It's not at all. Peyton also addressed some of the speculation, rampant speculation that he might get into the media. Let's hear that as well. I don't know what's next, not spoken to anyone from a

media outlet, relative to doing television or radio. Maybe maybe that opportunity arises. I think i'd like to do that. I think it'd be pretty good at it, all right, So Connie, let's let's start the conversation this way. I as I saw this unfold this morning, I couldn't stop thinking what a brilliant personnel, personal maneuver this is for Sean Payton, because I do buy the idea that after a very tough season, and he's been doing the job forever,

maybe this was his time. He's he's seen other his other the coaches he's looked up to a parcels for existence uh for instance, who stepped back for a year or two and then got back in. He gets it. Now, get out, take whatever job he wants in the football sphere, or do nothing and then when he does decide to get back in, he will become the hottest head coach property uh in the NFL in some time. Uh. It feels like it sets up well, but we don't even

know if he's coming back. Your thoughts on all this news,

What what a life? What an option to have in life to be Sean Payton in this very position he was in Cabo, went radio silent on a bunch of people and then decided, you know what, I'm going to step away from this organization that I've been linked to and loved by the fans for so long because he can basically take an NFL sabbatical like Bruce Arians has done it too in the past, and we've seen coaches do this, and I wonder if it's just because, you know,

maybe he's reached that burnout phase. We we saw what happened this year, and when he didn't have a Hall

of Fame quarterback, went through four different quarterbacks. I think that being a head coach in the NFL is stressful in and of itself, just in a regular year, and then you add in all of the layers with covid Um, and then they had the hurricane that misplaced them at the beginning of the year too, So there were just so many things that added probably to the stress and anxiety of the job, and so for him to be able to have this as an option is is great

for him. And I thought the press conference in general, he was so thoughtful, He was so sincere and so genuine, and it was kind of surreal to watch him say goodbye and watch him step aside. And I did love the fact that there were so many stories that he told and and thanked so many people, and you could tell that he really did think about this ahead of time. He even said that he googled it one point how to not cry during a speech, and that the Google

machine told him to drink water. And I was wondering, yeah, And I was wondering at one point furiously slamming bottles of water back during this press conference. He would stop at just all of a sudden start shugging water, and so that made a whole lot of sense. But I just thought that, you know, his empathy towards the media and covering the NFL during this time with all of the protocols, and he was just he came off as the person that I really wanted him to be in

this situation. Yeah, I want to get to his future next, but quickly, like it is a day for him to reflect. The press conference, Uh is still going on as as we talk. It actually might still be going on by the time you hear this. It could just continue. But he's got a lot to talk about, Like this sixteen year run ranks with you know, the great coaching runs. I mean, he's not Bartie or Belichick, but I think

he's a Hall of Fame coach. And I think the place where he took over this franchise to where they went immediately, that OH six team is you know, one of the most magical non Super Bowl teams to me ever read. Reggie Bush, who he mentioned a couple of times, really changed that franchise. It's hard to like remember what a big deal getting Reggie Bush was just in terms of making putting them on the front page of the newspaper, selling tickets, all this stuff. Uh. And it's been in

like an incredible journey. But he said going into this year, he was thinking about it going into training camp that this might be his last year. And I think he did a great job. He showed his value this year. The their offense. You know, quietly, if you kind of look at the analytics mind, it was like pretty decent considering the disastrous quarterback an injury situation that he had.

He joked how he tried to get Drew Brees to play again this year, and after watching the Dolphins game, they talked again and they were they were happy that Drew didn't come back because that would have not been fun for Drew Brees to be behind. So I think you said it well, Dan, like he's fifty eight years old, which you know is I guess is getting up there in life terms, but in NFL coaching terms, it's still pretty young. I mean, right, he's ten years younger and

he's gonna be in a position in one year. And once they asked, uh, once he allowed questions and they got a little more specific about it. You know, he made it pretty clear this year's off for coaching, he wants to do media, and then it sounds like he'll be throwing his hat back into the coaching ring. And you would think at that time the Saints actually might try to get him to coach for them again because they have his contract, and that's where it gets interesting.

They can get compensation for him, but he mentioned how you know Gayle Benson and and I'd be worried as a Saints fan considering the history of this ownership when Sean Payton hasn't been there about what's gonna happen next? And Gayle Benson said, how about you just come back in camp. You can like have the whole off season off and like come back in camp and coaches. So it's like whenever he wants to come back, if it's a year or two years, the thing they'll do is

just probably trying to get less. If anything, they might just try to keep the seat warm and then replace them. They've already had one bad decision and that hasn't even happened yet, saying telling the head coach you could take the summer off. What do you got to say on this? Mark? I what I found the most delicious um about this

as it was sort of unfolding on Twitter. Uh, And I agree that I don't think it was shocking because there were like more and more of becoming more trenchant concerns and reports about the fact that this isn't just him with his phone off on vacation. This is him

genuinely considering his future. But what I loved was the fact that you know, reminded me when I was in UM in sixth grade, in middle school, there was this power couple, Um, if you can be powerful at that age, Terry in sixth grades, Terry Hall and Genderilla, they were both essentially the like the hottest guy in the hottest girl dating and they had a stunning breakup in about April or May, just as the spring was starting, and cut those all over the school, Like girls all over

the school were dumping the lower level guys that they were with, and the same was happening in reverse because there was just a chance that maybe you'd have a chance to get with Terry Hall or Jen Varilla. And every single fan base was thinking, yeah, our coach is okay, but if we can get this guy f our coach, and like it's it's all centered around Mike McCarthy because there's been rumors forever, um that you know, the Cowboys

obviously love Sean Payton. I'll never forget in sitting at the at the owners meetings at the Saints table waiting for Peyton, and he rolled up with a little leather briefcase saying this is my new contract and here my five year deal, and who knew it would lead to this at this point. I mean, I think it's an incredible move for coaches in general h to take a little bit of time in between job A and job B.

He can explore. Like you said, Dan Bill Parcels went to NBC for a year, did not thrive at that at all. He just was not good for that. So who knows if Sean Payton would he talked about TV, get linked into that and love it. But I'm telling you, like every almost outside of Belichick, every coach in the league would be replaced in a second by ownership. For Sean Payton, it's going to be a story all year. It's going to shows how valuable he was. Every coach

I think is strong personally. But I would say sev of the league would be willing to do a swap

out at the very least. And you brought up McCarthy that to me, it all is still if you put the red string on the board, this is today was a bad day from Mike McCarthy, because what this is gonna be now is a situation where he's gonna when we do our hot butt exercise, come August, his butt is gonna be hotter than anyone because it's all set up for Hey, Mike, if you don't win the Super Bowl, Jared Jones is going to find a way, uh to cut a check and get Peyton separated from the Saints

and bring him in to replace you, to be the missing link of this team. That Now, sometimes these things that seem obvious don't actually come to fruition, but sometimes it's right in front of you, and I feel like this is one of those times where Peyton will be the next coach of the Dallas Cowboys. It just now comes down to ken Mike McCarthy, with the urgency at the highest, will that team to another level. That still seems to me where his next location is. I don't

buy the Saints. I think that I think that's the end of an era. The way he was talking sounded like it was the end of the era, and maybe the Saints would be better to turn the page themselves. I get it. But they can hold the you know, they have him under contract. I don't know. I mean, if if you're the contracts mean nothing, they always get I get it. But if if you're gonna trade him

and you're gonna trade him to the Dallas Cowboys. Your price is gonna be so high that either it's gonna work out great for you or the Cowboys aren't going to be able to do it. I mean, he he becomes like a player almost that you're gonna want to send to a different contrast or certainly not a regional rival relatively in the Cowboys, and it just it. He comes a very fascinating John Gruden like situation, except I think with a little more a year to year pressure

on it than Gruden had. Where you always thought Gruden was going to come back, you didn't know when Peyton, if he's gonna do it, maybe he'll just love broadcasting. But if he's gonna do it, it's gonna be sooner, sooner than later. And the Saints absolutely should hold a hard bargain, like this is nice. They're like passing pastries back and forth, but at some point it's gonna be business.

I thought it was interesting that Seohn Payton brought up Mike McCarthy by name in this press conference talking about when he found out that Mike McCarthy got the packer's job, and he threw his phone into the Pillow, and obviously it was the best thing that ever happened to him, So I appreciated that. I thought that was kind of a little of a bread crumb maybe, but I also loved his honesty when he was talking about his friendship with Mickey Loomis and then just threw out of nowhere.

He was like, he walks slow. It bothers me. I want him to pick it up. And that was maybe my sad line of the entire press conference. That well struck me to Connie because it did feel like he was going very much off the top of his head and he was speaking comfortably, which is a good sign for a guy that's looking to get in the media. He won't be like his old quarterback Drew Bees. Greg. Let me just say this to go back to the McCarthy thing. I understand what the cost would be, and

it would be deemed by many to be prohibitive. I understand that could be messy with the contract situation. Maybe the Saints don't want to keep him in the NFC, But you're telling me not if when the Cowboys go eight and nine next year under Mike McCarthy and Jarra, who's at that point gonna be nearing eighty years old. I believe is going to move mountains to get the head coach he wants, just like he did get Bill Parcels way back when that I just stand by that.

I think that Gerald will make it happen. If Jerald wants it to happen, okay, But then yeah, then the Saints wind up with like three first round picks or whatever. It's kind of take and and I just think it it'll be a fascinating thing because it's so rare, and maybe other teams get involved. You know that the Saints would rather trade him to and yeah, if that's where Peyton wants to go and the Cowboys wanted to happen,

that's all possible. But that the Saints are in a in a good point, like that's what they're paying for with that suitcase mark, like that that's what they were paying for. Is now they have they're gonna pay them all that. You know, they they have that leverage, and

they gave him that guaranteed money. They gave him the rage and and even at the time, Peyton probably knew he's giving up some power if he wants to walk away, and that's part of it, and I think like the next team that gets Sean Payton's like they are getting such a good coach. I liked what he said about his maturation process of how to deal with the media

and him as a person. If you look at the coaches that's been under him, He's chosen some great coaches, Dan Campbell and Aaron Glenn who are now in Detroit. He really made a push for Dennis Allen. I think he knows how to handle the whole organization, and I think that's different like when he won early in New Orleans, He's admitted he's had he had some trouble almost dealing with like the rock star nature that he was that he had in New Orleans. He he admittedly had a

drug problem. You had any gate, and there was probably no more paranoid coach in the entire NFL. There was a point around the bounty gate and when all that drug stuff was happening that he he was didn't seem like a healthy person. And now I think he's come out the other end and he's been a better coach. And they haven't won the Super Bowl here in the last stretch, but they've been incredibly well coached and consistent and like, you know, you're right that any team is

gonna want him. Well, he's definitely mellowed out. I mean people that know him talked about that. I mean he's on his second marriage at this point. You know, he's his life's changed. I would say this to Dan's point three first round picks for Sean Payton. If I'm an NFL owner, I do it. I never look back. I never think about it. You're good for the next ten years, and you've got a brand, you've got a franchise, and you have a coach that can maximize your players, your scheme.

Anyone in the league. Sure, But even while with lesser quarterbacks, look what he's done. The last thing is he's like Parcels though he's leaving at the right time, Like you want to go in and build it and be the hero. And they've got about seventy million dollars and cap problems. They don't have a quarterback there. I don't think Tarran Armstad's gonna be there. There's gonna be a lot of changes.

And Mickey Loomis, who's been there the whole time, and and maybe Dennis Allen, who it really sounds like has the inside track for this job is gonna have an extremely difficult job in this next year. Well, in to Connie's point, I guess you know Mickey Loomis walking at a slower pace has finally annoyed him to such a degree that he's left Mickey Loomis general manager of the New Orleans Pelicans as well. In a double fix, Payton's just gonna go hang out in Cabo, Like he just

got married in Cavo this offseason. He went and made a decision in Cabo. I don't know, great things happening, he said, But he said he just bought a new place in New Orleans. So I like that he's staying. Uh. I think we should go to Cabo. I feel like everybody who goes to Cabo something good happens. I got my anniversity there. You go. By the way, we also um one thing you didn't address Greg with his personal problems and like you know, tragedies. The Kevin James casting,

like he overcame that MS. He's gonna get to do all the he's gonna be working for. I'm gonna predict NBC, but could be ESPN, who knows, uh. And he's gonna be able to do all the talk shows promoting home game. You know, people made fun of that Kevin James thing. Are you kidding me? Like he's a football coach and has some yeah, pretty high a list level actor playing him a Netflix movie. I mean that that should be good for the ego. Yeah, I think the casting could

have been a little better on that. Do you recall we did actually we did a casting for Sean payton Um Last Office Dinner. My wife offers some options. She did work in the industry. Yeah, I mean we she and I combined because I'm a you know, I have some casting toile. So I'm going Peter stars Guard like, who is you know? He's never bad, He's never bad.

Let's take a break, all right, let's uh, let's keep We got a bunch of news to hit before we get to Jordan's so we'll uh um, But we gotta give Tom Brady a little bit of time here because this is I've see a huge story. Tom Brady season ended Sunday seven loss for the Bucks to the Rams. They wiped out a point deficit only to lose in heartbreaking fashion. Brady did play very well uh in the during the closing uh in the closing half of that game,

even though he was under constant arrest. So he went out if this would be the good way he goes out. He went out as a big time player still, but now we're hearing he's thinking about and he's involving his family um in making the decision. Here's what he said on his podcast with none other than the infamous Jim Gray. Football is extremely important in my life and it means a lot to me, and I care a lot about what we're trying to accomplish as a team, and I

care a lot about my teammates. And the biggest difference style that I'm molder is I have kids now too, you know, and I care about them a lot as well. And uh, you know, they've been my biggest supporters. My wife is my guess supporter. It pains her to see me get hit out there, and you know, she deserves what she needs from me as a husband. My kids

deserve what they need from me as a dad. You know, I've already kind of shared my thoughts on where how I think this ends up, so I won't be labored, but I do I do want to say I knew that he has Brady a professional relationship with Jim Gray, the infamous Jim Gray. But it's apparently a podcast called the Let's Go Podcast, And how boring must that podcast be to never be in the news you never hear about, like,

what's the first episode? You're so you're telling me. Okay, maybe maybe it's been completely dark, but there is a scenario here where Tom Brady. Tom Brady has been doing a podcast who knows every week, maybe three times podcast. Larry Fitzgerald is on it too. Nothing new. It's uh yeah, it's like seven, it's probably started. Hey, Ricky, can you do some digging and let me know how often that Let's Go podcast into it? Alright? Anyway, Connie, you're you

got the floor, all right. I didn't realize that I didn't have the floor at the beginning of the show, and you asked me this, So here we go. I'm gonna go into my actual take on this. I don't really I don't think that this is an attention thing for Tom Brady. When he says that he's going to kind of take time and think about it with his family, I believe him in that, and I think that he's serious here because he said that a fairretwell tour would not be something that he wanted to do and that

he would find it distracting. But I think the main reason why I take this so seriously is because Tom Brady was on Howard Stern like two years ago maybe, and it was a really interesting interview. And in that interview he talked about his family and his relationship with them, and his relationship with Giselle and how they had gone to marriage counseling together, and how so much of what

he does it really is like a family decision. And when you think about the supreme effort that goes into Tom Brady, tom being Tom Brady, that is not something that is easy, and that's taking away a lot of time from his family and from his personal life. I mean, he is like seventy years old maybe at this point, like he actually could be eighty years old at this point.

But the way that he is playing and the way that he puts all of this work into his body and his performance and and everything on the field, that's not insignificant. So I think that this it could be him going out and it's not a bad way to go out. Sure that he didn't win another Super Bowl, but individually. It was one of his best seasons, so it will say, and especially after the way that they came back against the Rams. They fell short, but it

was a dramatic comeback. So if it yeah, Rick, well the forty three episodes and it's explicit and it's through serious x M. But it does look like sometimes Tom Brady's not on it and it's Larry Fitzgerald and um Jim Gray, but it does look like Brady has been on quite quite a bit. Started weekly. I think my guests would be they take that radio hit and throw it into the podcast, but who knows it's weekly? Uh and yeah, and there's Fitzgerald episodes. It's it's very strange.

It's a good point big we are better and bigger than Tom Brady at one thing, Dan, there's no way his podcast about it. Let's go the McAfee show, and it's like the biggest story in the NFL, like every Tuesday, come on to me, because I mean, he's dropping incendiary commentary. He doesn't mean say anything, especially if if it is that radio hit repurposed, it's like he really doesn't see anything on that. I think what he said, I think what he said on the podcast, though, was was telling

he's never talked like this before. That's why it's different. We've never had these reports before. He's never talked to Al Michael's about it before. I think he is going to retire if I had to guess. Obviously have no idea, but I just think because he just seems like the type football players say this all the time that once you're thinking about it, it's like you're already retired and I and I would think for Tom Brady that would

be doubly true. And just the way that he said, look, I get joy from playing football, but now outside of football, there's a lot of joy for me there as well, the team, not you know, deserving anything less than his best,

so like total commitment, Like I buy that. It almost sounds like like he's leaning that way now, almost clearly, And it's that emotional time right after the season when a lot of players are like that, almost like he's trying to convince himself because of course he said it's not about necessarily what he wants, and and it has been about what he wants, because he would have retired years ago if it wasn't about what he wants. And

so that's why this the timing of it all. And yeah, he it sounded like he wanted to get back to

another super Bowl. They're like, that would have been the perfect way to go out, But he's played enough NFL seasons to know how brutal it is and how much of a chance there is next year that like the Bucks are way worse, Like he's realistic enough about that, or that he's worse, and that he's also been to the end of seasons where his team, you know, stumbled to the finish line and people didn't even think about him as a top ten quarterback, Like if he is going out, to me, this is about as on top

as it could be, having this two year stint in Tampa Bay that even the most optimistic Tom Brady fans like like me, never would have thought would have been this successful on an individual level or a team level, that they got a super Bowl. And so it just it just checks out to me that that this that he is going to do it, or that he's leaning at least at this moment, he's leaning that way and he's just trying to give it a little time to

see to see if he would change it. I don't think he's gonna be a Brett Farve type at all. I think he would be your mouth. I hate to be a dissenting voice like I I agree with Greg. I think he's out right, and I admit it's like I don't know, we're reading into human character, but that's would be my guess. I I really I get real concerned for the idea that someone like Tom Brady, who like his life the sun is football and that's what

he revolves around. I get the family angle, and there's obviously been tension there because he mentioned that Giselle has wanted him to walk away for a while. So to me, what concerns me a little bit um beyond the football you know, aspect of it is that it sounds like a compromise. I maybe not maybe I who what do I know? I don't know the family at all, but I worry about Tom Brady. Come August, that's suddenly, first of all, physically still in great shape, an m VP

candidate playing at the highest level. Um walking away from a game that has been his life, that is his identity on so many levels. For family life, I I think that can be very fulfilling too. But I'll I go back to this interview that I had with Marv Levy's wife during Super Bowl Week, and she talked about when he finally retired after decades and decades of the bio rhythm of football, that he came into the home. Suddenly he was there seven and she had learned to

live with Marv Levy, living this other structured life. And she told me, said, look, this thing drove me absolutely nuts. Suddenly there's this guy in the house all day long who has nothing to do, and it was a terrible fit. I couldn't even put the article on NFL dot com because it was far too negative. I'm not put projecting that on Tom Brady, but I do worry about someone who is such a lifer this way, leaving for the family and kids. Reason I do it should be known

because because I have knowledge of this. Dolores Levy hated Marv Levy. The marriage was a sham. Look at I like, I came away from Mark Burne and I know you're kidding, but I came away from the interview thinking they were a match because they were never around each other. That's how they got Do you want to do it? You and do a sangwiche with me? On this too. I I totally think he's out. I will happily better swich

he wouldn't want to do a retirement tour too. And he and he kind of he did the Tom Brady doc you know, series weekly what was it called on ESPN this year, Like he just let go of his he just released his clothing, I think commercials and stuff. It's like he's sort of he's out. I think he's retiring. All right, you want to get on the on the sandwich, I got three on the hook, Come on back, tell me boy, all right, let's keep moving. Big story though

your story. All right, let's still top on the personnel carousel? Shall we have the bucks and the scenes could both stink at the same time. Yeah, the NFC seal taking a hit potentially of epic proportions and that rules like yes, maybe now I'll go six and eleven. Just so the Giants have filled their general manager post hiring Joe Shane is a Shane? Is that what we came down on the spellings and print, But Joe Shane, he is the new general manager of ul Jaman. The Shane is the

former Bill's assistant GM. He was the right hand man up there in Buffalo. So this is a guy that helped build that powerhouse Bill's roster or had a certainly had a hand in it. So it feels like, so far, so good for the Giants. The Bears also have filled their GM post hiring, and this one, I don't know. For some reason, this one bothers me. Ryan Poles is the new GM, which is a too close to Ryan pace and also Nick Foles, who was a bad Bear

Ryan Poles. It drives me nuts. It drives me absolutely nuts. If like you, let's say you were you were someone, um, a girl or a guy. That's fine too dating someone named Ryan. Um, if you break up with Ryan, you don't date Ryan. You have to date someone with a different name before you go back. Imagine, go ahead, Well I'm just that's my personal code. What may maybe you've branched into that. No, I was gonna say, my ex boyfriend ended up marrying a colleen, Like do we think

that that's problem? And his name was Gonza? Was it back to back? Was it? Was it back to that Colleen? Well, then you know what, more power to him. And in other news, the favorite to be the new general manager of the Minnesota Vikings replacing Rick Spielman. Up there is Brown's up and comer vice president Football Operations, gonna annail it, Cowessia dopha mensa. By the way, that Sean Payton presscommence is still is still going. Can you imagine thinking what's

going on in your life? Is that important? Like John F. Kennedy during the Cuban missile crisis didn't speak this long. Well, now he's getting questions. It is this important in New Orleans, like he should take all the public questions that that they wanted to be started. This press conference started seventy three minutes ago. He's a he's a perfect it's a perfect fit for Jerry Jones. By the way, those two he's the coach of the local football team. I get it.

But they're asking questions. He's not going to be in that setting ever again. So just like him, keep asking, all right, we buy a pigs invasion failed, we have major problems are and then it's over in five minutes. Concise Kennedy esk right, we should mention like that Josh that giants higher. You know he's from the Bills. He's interviewing Brian Brian Dable as a finalist for that job. Dan Quinn is as well for a second interview, but it makes it more likely that it's gonna be doable.

And then with the Chiefs guy going to Minnesota, you kind of wonder, uh if they'd bring into Eric b Enemy and supposedly he has a relationship with Damiko Ryan's he was in San Francisco, who was going to get a second interview in Minnesota? So those might be two names to watch. Is gonna need compromising photos of someone's like owner to get a head coaching job? It just

seems that's how this thing is going. Well. This is a guy that worked with him closely, so you would think it would be telling one way or another if he doesn't hire him. I found that the Shane higher interesting for the Giants on one little thing that there's there's whispers that the Mara that Marrow wants the ownership wants um Brian Flores. It was very into Brian Flores.

But Shane worked under Chris Career for like nine years, so like, if anyone's going to get the real story on Brian Flores, and probably be I would imagine tilted away from Brian Flores, it would be the guy that just hired. It just I mean, if you're getting the guy that's the guy behind the guy in Buffalo personnel wise, and Brian Dable's a red hot offensive coordinator candidate, who's going to get a big chair? That just it seems

to make sense. Dots real quick on the polls higher, What did you guys think of George McCay asky picking up poles at the airport wearing a Bears jacket and jeans and holding poles his hometown as like the card for him to recognize him? Apparently Bears Twitter was like split on this. Half of them thought it was a cheap kind of way to do things. I thought it was kind of nice. I thought it was a sweet touch. Makasky, the chairperson of the Chicago Bears official title, I like it.

I think they're just generally very a lot of Bears fans which seemed to be generally embarrassed by McCaskey as a human. So I'm not sure that it bridged the gap, but it seemed like a tender way to int intro him. Mark, have you put in a phone call to Adafo Mensa to uh perhaps sway him to stay with Cleveland, to keep that brain trust or to get that job. Go go go work for him in Minnesota. I'm trying to kick Mark and Mark off the podcast. Greg, we see

what you're talking to. Uh No, I've not contacted him. But also, you know the Browns, this is the way this new things works. They get two third round picks um if he takes the job, so we'll see, you know, although he probably would have been the guy making those picks. So now we've got we've got issues. There's problems. M alright. Uh, let's uh hop back on the personnel carousel. Here a

number of coaches now we're taking second interviews. Greg's going to run him down because that's how his brain works. He has them all on the tip of his tongue right now. The only one I'll share with you is that our good friend, Packer's offensive coordinator, Nathaniel Hackett is set to have his second interview with the Broncos. That

was that went down yesterday actually in Denver. We are close and I got this update from David Eally on the news desk, and we know the news desk apocalypse surrounding the head shot and an unnamed talent flagging them multiple times Um head coach Nathaniel Hackett in play in play, it sounds like they like they they they had Damn Quinn for a second one to but Hackett seems to be getting a little are buzz If Rogers ends up like coming back and going over there, then that would

kind of seems like con I would hope that wouldn't be the reason that you were hiring him, because that you know, it might not be up to might not be up to Aaron Rodgers. Well, they also interviewed his his qbad they've interviewed the Packers QB coach for that head coaching job too, So you wonder if Hackett brings him over as O C and suddenly you know, Aaron Rodgers, you know who has backed Nathaniel Hackett as a head

coaching higher for a while now. It maybe gets into the head a little bit and thinking it's nice and Denver does feel like a modern day Broncos moved to to really roll out the red carpet without any promises. I would say, like whether you're Hackett, who's you know? All right? He's pretty good candidate in terms of hot names. He's connected to a team that's done very well in the regular season. Dan Quinn's an even better example, who's coming off a year where he's completely rehabbed his image.

Would you not go anywhere and, knowing what we know about our league unless the star quarterback was there, It just too much of a risk to join a team that doesn't have a guy in place, because you only get one to maybe three years, but probably one to two years. Are you really gonna roll the dice if you have your pick of teams. If I'm Quinn, I would not leave that position unless they absolutely had a rock star landing spot. Yeah, the second time around it right?

I think the second time around that's right, because he's he's earned the life changing money. Like Nathaniel Hackett, who knows if he ever actually ever gets another offer. It's tough to be choosy. Some of these guys who get in the interview cycles are gone from it forever pretty soon. I mean he he can look to his dad as an interesting example. And Paul Hackett was supposed to be

the next Bill Walsh. His dad never quite happened, and Bill Wash I believe, was you know, furious at him for leaving, leaving the nest in San Francisco back in the day, and it's weird. Nathaniel Hackett isn't calling plays in Green Bay. You know, when he was calling plays, it was for the blake Boarder Jaguars, not you know, was it wasn't beloved by any means. Hmm. Interesting, All right, let's uh any other coaching coaches you guys want to throw out there? All right, good, let's move on and

other news. I thought I found this interesting. Andy Reid, He's been on both sides of the overtime coin toss, good and bad. Where you're trying to, you know, extend your season, get to a Super Bowl, you lose the coin toss in a classic game, you're great quarterback never

gets the ball. Uh. Andy Reid empathizes with the Bills after that difficult divisional playoff loss in buff For Buffalo, I wouldn't be opposed to an ot rules change, Reid, said Ian Rappaport, our own Ian Rappaport, the NFL Network insider. UH said that it is potentially on the table, Uh, that a change could happen. Um, we shall see. Now, I've been thinking about this, Greg. We talked about it

on the Sunday Night Show. Um, how you pointed out correctly that if it was both teams get the ball regardless of what happens in the first possession, it actually favors the second team because they know what they need the team that gets the ball second. I should say, all right, so what if you kept the coin flip, whoever wins the coin flip gets to elect whether they get the ball first or second. You'll almost always I

would think, take second strategically. Uh, and that way you still the flip still gets to decide who has the advantage, but it doesn't potentially end the game without both quarterbacks slash offenses seeing the field. How about that. I don't think it's better. I don't think so. I mean, I just I don't think there's a better overtime situation. I think overtime inherently is gonna be random, so you have

to win in regulation to avoid that. But any recipe where it's like you could be playing three overtimes essentially because the possessions keep going back and forth like college. Uh, it seems crazy. Z for a league that seems that sounds obsessed about player safety. It's just it's like football. If you get to the end and oh, the defense is is gassed and like they can't stop them anymore. That sounds like a time for the game to end, you know what I mean, Like, I don't. I just

don't see why that. I guess this is my my point about this whole thing, and Mark, I'm cure. So you think, like if if you're gonna and I'm not saying this to you specifically, Greg, but everyone that's being about the overtime rules, well we need to have everyone that has to have a plan. Now I just shared mine. Gregg shot it down. That's fine with somebody. We need ideas. We need to figure this out because it does feel

like the current plan just doesn't work. I would just say with the player safety thing, like I wouldn't change regular season at all. I don't think anyone's pushing to do that. But when you get into a playoffs scenario like we've seen it, it robbed obviously Patrick Mahomes of a chance to match Tom Brady a couple of years ago. This time a Homes is on the upper hand of that, but it robbed us have seen Josh Allen, and I think it kind of stole the spirit of that game away.

So I you know, I I'm hearing lots of good ideas. I'm not going to cook one up because I think I would say you do it. I think that they should play the full overtime period until the very end, and then if they're still tied there, each team gets one offensive possession. If they so much, I think players

would not have to play. How about this craft factoring kind like minutes though that kind of like I'm factoring and everything said, everything that everyone is saying, including the player safety, which is something that the NFL, even though if sometimes it doesn't align with that the realities of how the league's moving forward that they talk a lot about player safety. Keep the current modified overtime rules in place regular season, like Mark saying, that's fine, it's a

regular season. In the playoffs, you have a newly modified overtime situation, uh, that is shifted to make sure these teams get a fair shake because the championship is now on the line. It's second season. How about that modified postseason overtime. Yeah, I totally agree with that. I think that that that seems to serve everyone. And Greg, I mean, we're talking about like the exhaustion factor and how can

we possibly have them play five more minutes. This may occur like one one This would occur maybe like one or two times in the playoffs. Tops I mean, it's it's it just seems like that game, the rule change has come off of Premier Island game moments like that. That's when that's what triggers the NFL to make trait. That's why Andy Reid had to say that he was boxed in a corner because he was literally the one who brought up the rules proposal change four years ago

and it didn't go anywhere. Like the Chiefs, who are the ones who who wanted the rules change, and maybe the league is maybe the people who are making decisions has changed, but I don't know, it didn't work. Taken on this, it's taken on the like it is a very tedious argument on Twitter at this point. But I think that from the spirit of what we watched Bill's Chiefs, I would like to see a change a little. I guess part of me thinks, like, hey, news flash, it's

all ran Like randomness is such a huge factor. We add on all these narratives after the fact, but it's like it's it's a random thing, and that like can be uncomfortable as fans, Uh that the coin flip does matter. I think it's only been like fifty three percent of teams in general I have that won the coin flip of one, So it hasn't been like that huge offs

the playoffs and the playoffs that's happened more. I don't know if that's that's right, but like, there's so everything was random to get to that point, and it's and that's I think what happens with an overtime At that point we don't adjust anything in human existence. Now my point, the random nature of all all things is I mean what no, I'm saying, like and like to get to overtime, and there's so many factors that had to come into

play before before that. Like I can accept a little bit of randomness with the coin flip because it's not that big. Ultimately, you can still go win a ball game a million other ways. You um pointed out Andy Reid four years ago. That was after that classic between the Patriots and Chiefs. I assume, uh, in the a f C title game when the Chiefs lost the coin toss at Arrowhead and never got the ball. I love

Tom Brady. Um, what about um the idea that same thing with how the past interference rule came to be a high visibility Playoffs instance, being a catalyst for change. I wonder because that's being seen by many people as well that didn't work out. Well. I'm just saying, um, I think I feel like you're in the minority on this crag. I think a lot of people would like

to experiment with change and maybe it doesn't work. Even the past interference thing, Yes, it failed miserably, but I don't mind that the NFL was open to trying different things to make the product better. I'm with you, I just haven't heard the thing that gets me excited about something different. I was all for when they changed the

overtime and that was a three year process. If you guys remember that was in the playoffs only for a couple of years, right that was that was back in or so, and they eventually adopted it, and it's been better. It's been better. But I haven't heard one that I like. I don't remember anything. It's just I wrote a lot of p f T posts about it. It was a lot of a lot of excitement. Sean McDermott, Bill's coach, speaking of that classic game, uh, he said, he has

watched the last thirteen set. This is why, this is why Sean Payton retired today, quote unquote retired. He's watched the last thirteen seconds of regulation that led to that heartbreaking loss for Buffalo a million times. Let's listen to McDermott and this is good that we have sounds that means that Sean McDermott is still alive. I watched it on video and I've watched it over and over my head a million times, in my stomach a million more. Um. I'll continue to watch it in my mind and in

my cut for for years. I wrote about in the Power Rankings this week where time will tell well, is this the final agonizing roadblock for the Bills and their climb to Lombardi glory or will this be the loss that sticks to the ribs like no other loss since those Super Bowl defeats? Like, we don't know, the only thing we do know is now the Bills need to go through another entire offseason, another training camp, another regular season into the playoffs just to get back to this

point again. It's not just physical now for the Bills, and where that organization is at its mental as well. There's just so many heartbreaks too. I mean, when you think about the history of the Bills and you have the Music City Miracle, and you have the Wide Right, and you have now like the thirteen seconds, and the fact that Sean McDermott and all of the players are going to replay this over and over and over in

their minds. It's just it's so heavy on them. And I really hope though, it is the beginning for this team and not the end, because it really could go either way. And we've seen it work with Kansas City and the Chiefs when when they sort of came out on the wrong end of things and now they're trying to get back to their third straight Super Bowl. But there's so many things that need to break right for teams and injuries. I mean, you're talking about player, personnel, schedule,

all of it. And the one thing that stood out to me when I was looking through mc dermott's quotes just him talking about that plane ride home, and obviously all of us can imagine what it was like, but he said, if you saw that plane ride on the way home, you would not come away with the impression

that we're fine. And that's that's stating the obvious, but just putting yourself in their shoes flying back from that just utter devastats, right, And it's sort of what I was getting at with like the randomness of it all. Like I guess I just don't buy that the Bills didn't have some inherent championship level qualities in side of them that prevented them from winning the title this year.

To me, they they with it with a couple of little things happening different that didn't have to do with them. You know, Let's say they score in the next plate, like then they win the super Bowl. They were a championship team, but they didn't win it. And that's that's what happens in sports sometimes. And they'll have other cracks at it. Josh Allen is too good for them not to be a factor of it all. But but you

don't know. You just don't know that you're gonna be there in that same sort of they'll be relevant, you'll be relevant, but maybe they won't be that good. You just you just don't know. And to Connie's point, I mean, Sean Payton probably still speaking as we speak. Um, I'll tell you, I can tell you guys, he's still there. I don't know. He can tell you Andrew is taking it from him in same for the local football. You know, he's just wrapping a bow on it, you know, getting

him into the next show, real aid Lincoln of sorts. Um. But I mean those three straight, you know, heart wrenching playoff losses the Saints had, well can they get back there? Because they're that good. Suddenly there's no Sean Payton, Suddenly there's no Drew Brees. Suddenly there's total chaos, right that and and all that said, like, it's got to kill Sean McDermott watching that film too, because you know he don't think watching it for giggles, he's got to get

his binoculars out to find his safeties. On those two plays, I fired it up there forty yards down the field. What are they doing there? What are they doing there? They weren't in the place they like, the safety came up to top Kelsey. He did about as good as he could have. He was like standing at the goal line. Something something strange broke down there, and he said it

was execution. McDermott. He wouldn't go into that, even beyond the kickoff thing, but something strange happened with the execution of the of the defense for those last two he was hired to be a defensive masterminds that that's tough to stomach as a defensive I was on Good Morning Football this morning, and Gabriel Davis, you have the four touchdowns in a losing effort, was on being interviewed right before, and the man looked like he was at his own funeral,

like it was a very very it's a very bittersweet, strange position for somebody like Gabriel Davis, who just had the greatest professional day he'll ever have in his life most likely, and and if things just went a little bit different in those hashtag thirteen seconds, he's one of the biggest stories in the NFL. Uh. Instead, it's just kind of an afterthought. And by the way, on that note, thirteen seconds not not the thirteen second miracle, not the

thirteen second game. These all time classics need that shorthand description. Thirteen seconds. You nailed it. Um. By the way, you know that press conference going ninety minutes. Little American history for you, guys. William Henry Harrison UM was the president for just thirty one days. He passed away in eighteen forty one um after he gave the longest inauguration speech of any US president outdoors in Washington, he fell seriously ill um potentially because of his exposure to the elements,

and he died one month later. So it's just like it's important too. And that was the guy who just got elected president. And I'm sure his speech was shorter than Sean Payton's. Just now. I think Payton's was indoors. It looks pretty warm down there in New Orleans. I think he'll be I think his health his he looks really in good shape. Shout out William Henry, how is up? Wherever you want? Big man? Your son's namesake? Is that? Is that the story that inspired you to name your

son Harrison? Well, the craziest thing is I wanted his name to be Henry and my wife said no, So is it because you like your friends with your friends with an adult Henry? Yes, so it would be the second Or what about what about VP? Yes, John Tyler in a big spot, I get tapped to be the vice And that's cool. I'm beep. A month later, I'm poosa, not bad, all right? In other news, I'm just saying I'm sure it was a bummer that his colleague and

the president. I think I think we all just were stuck on the word you said before that, but we got we figured it. Yeah, yeah, that was it. Okay, Hey, good news, um, fire up, turn up your amps, tune up your guitars, because the Carolina Panthers landed their rock star offensive coordinator Ben McAdoo. Baby, let's hear another tasty liquorickyd rock God. So that's good. That's good for the Panthers.

And finally, late Night with Jim er Say, the Colts owner at one a m. Eastern Time this morning, tweeted the following to the masses, you can see clear as day in the final eight NFL team playoffs you need you need a QB and offense comma who can score thirty or more in regulation olypses, and a defense that can hold an opponent under thirty slammer football. The the last four games. I wrote this down somewhere here we are the last four games for the Indianapolis Colts, point

total eleven. So it is what it is. M It's all out there, isn't it. Wait? Can I just tell you something that happen during that That was a wonderful summary. But like in the background, and Colleen, if you're watching this on YouTube, a door opens and an adult male walks through the door with like a barking dog. I'm assuming that was Gonza, right, but that was spot. We don't know if that's my that's my lover back there.

He just like walked over to the corner of the kid should and started pointing to his wrist like time and his hands up. Because I've been in the kitchen now for a while. I think he's hungry. I don't know he's yelling still, who's God? I think he is. He think just because he's hungry, we should wrap up the show or you should jump off. Exactly he was. He didn't make you he was. By the way, I had that great set up about er say in the future of the cult, it gets blown away because John

can't stay in his bedroom for another ten minutes. Uh. I thought the think was fun. I didn't know anything about all that, so I thought it was informative and bye bye, Carson wentz. I love that. I love John gonz hijacked the show. There. He that's his nature. Yeah, it is gonna be an interesting QB carousel because it's becoming increasingly apparent, apparent that Jim Ury is all done with Carson wentz Um. All right, that's what's happening in the news. Let's take a ache and then let's get

to let's get to Jordan Rodrigue. All right, welcome back. It is time to welcome. I guess we're all excited to speak with this woman. She covers the rams for the athletics. She's also the co host of the eleven Personnel pod. She is the great Jordan Rodrigue. What's up, Jordan, Welcome to the Around the NFL Podcast. How are you? I seem collected on the surface, but I'm internally freaking out. Big fan of the show. I told Erica I was

going to say that probably sixty times. So just start cutting me off or editing it out or something when I start picking. By the way, I don't know if I mentioned that, which which Which is your favorite? Yeah? That one, you can, that's that's the one. That's the thing with Schreeger. Jordan, and I don't know if you saw the episode a couple of years ago, listened to the episode. We we asked Peter Schreeger the same question, and then he said Greg, and we're all like, no, well,

remember this happening, just I asked. I asked Peter Strigger which one of us he respected the most, and he did not hesitate and said Greg, while Dan and I were sitting there, uh, somewhat thunderstudy. It's refreshing. You give some small times you expect you know, oh, no, one's the faith, you know that, but he just gave you the truth. And that's nice refreshing for Greg Jordan's you might be my and I think maybe the whole group

will contend this as well. Favorite Beat Reporter at the Athletic, which is quite a title because there's so much great talent there. But you're you're such a great writer. You cover this, you cover the sport and that team so well.

And why don't we start this way with the Rams, because I thought the way you put it in your right up after that classic near meltdown turned um amazing victory in Tampa, that there are some demons with this team right there, whether it's uh Stafford struggles in the past, even Matt Gay the kicker going to Tampa and Sean McVeigh now has to slay another there's demon here, obviously, with the San Francisco forty niners and the other boy

genius on the other sideline. Uh, do you think the Rams have that mental capability to step on the throat of an opponent, get to the super Bowl and completely rewrite the narrative of a lot of people connected to this organization? You know what has been so uh insane chaotic covering this team, I think in a good way because I think especially when you're a beat writer, which I love being, UM and thank you for saying that, although I can't want to say that because I am

the guest on your show today. UM. The you get to see we we do rankings actually pretty regularly. UM. Zach Keeper is like furious at us right now, but you you have turned out to be on top. Sorry Zach here, Zach Keeper is the ultimate talent there. But

I'm feeling pretty proud of this. UM. So it's you get to see incremental change over time and you get to sort of study that, right, And that's what I love about covering this team is because they've had major catalytic changes, but then also all the little things that are happening between those spaces, and that's where I think they do allow some of these what I call them, They allowed some of these demons to sort of peek through and sneak through and almost catch them by surprise

at times. Four fumbles will certainly catch you by surprise in the middle of the game. Um. But I think with with this team, I worry less. The interesting thing, a personality with them that's developed is almost worry less about how things go for them when things are calm, when they have a lead, when they can exhale, and I worry. I worry more about, you know, what they do in those moments. I worry less about what happens

when their backs up against the wall. All through December, you saw them winning games when all of these external factors were affecting their team, you know, massive COVID nineteen outbreak and um, you know, losing Robert Woods earlier in November, um onboarding two new players, just all of the things

and moving parts that are swirling around this team. And then and then them navigating through that as well as they did in you know, five in a row, and then and then ultimately finally a seventeen point lead against again the forty Niners, who they could have knocked out of postseason contention and and exhaling for the first time going into the halftime, going into the locker room at halftime, and then it comes they come back out and everything hits the fans. So it's it's very it's been so

interesting kind of gauging the personality. It's almost like they work better when there's chaos happening all around them. And I don't know who that's reflective of. Matthew Stafford certainly is comfortable, um, operating through that chaos. We we nickname him on my podcast darkly Chaotic Matthew Stafford because um, he does seem to navigate that headspace rather well. Um. But it's been interesting this team. It's almost like they can never let themselves get comfortable in any way because

things start slipping through the cracks. In that regard. I love that you nick nicknamed him darkly chaotic because that's exactly what I bookmarked in your article from this week when you described his tendency to dip too far into darkly chaotic decision making and also the fact that he embraced that chaos and kind of found clarity at the end of that game. But can you explain just like a little bit more about the dark place that his

teammates kind of described him going into after that spike. Yeah, it was kind of they felt they saw him, um, maybe leave leave this plane and enter another one. I think you know, it was. It was very interesting. That's quite the reason why I love this team, right, because I mean I love covering this team because they they are so fascinating in the little things that they let slip. And that was a personality slip in him that we

hadn't really seen. You see the competitor um. You see the guy who wants the ball in his hands at the end of the game, regardless of whether or not they have a lead. He wants to stay on the field. He wants to be participating, um, and certainly when when things aren't going their way, he wants to be the guy that helps sort of settle the calm, even if he is part of the reason why that chaos has

happened in the first place. And that was a a sort of explosive moment when he spiked that ball, because his teammates sort of saw this different look in his eyes. As Sean McVeigh always says, you know, the talks about people look in their eyes right, and so they sort of saw saw this different UM, this different person who really does elevate in those moments. And that's why I always, UM find him a fascinating study because he does invite that. Sometimes he does turn the ball or he he did

earlier in the season. Post season, he's been excellent, but he was turning the ball over at an opportune times in certain moments, but you never felt like there was this implosion. UM. And then sort of he channeled that in the end of the game, UM, all of that sort of chaos that he's adept at navigating sometimes even if it's self inflicted, and it almost seemed to just just burst out of him in that spike and his

teammates are like, whoa man. So it was it was really fascinating and I do think and then him talking postgame is sometimes you have to go into that place and learn how to embrace that place, which I think we've seen over the course of his career. UM. Certainly to me, that's a psychological go component of this is is learning how to be that person and embrace that part of you, UM, even when things go wrong, even

when it's your fault. If things go wrong, that makes me so much more interested in Matthew Stafford that he has sort of a dark inner region that he channels during games. Very intriguing. But I mean, like, so it's obviously such a weather worn um fact at this point that the Niners have stomped them, you know, taken in six in a row. But in terms of the team's psychology, the potential weight of that, you know, where weeks removed from them melting down against the Niners, that which were

obviously changed the complexion of the NFC playoffs drastically. Is there a weight are they are? Is this a new opportunity where they're able to take all that and put it on a boat and just float it out into the into the ocean or is it something that they think about that Sean McVeigh thinks about, you know, dealing with Kyle Shanahan, who has just owned them. It's it's such an outlier for the Rams, Like where are they

neck up? I think they wanted to You hear guys talk about wanting it this way and and you know,

you lose to a team six six times. I think that says something about you um as a group, as a person, for for wanting this to be the case, and I think it's because this would be the ultimate way to sort of to shake these guys in the end, to really sort of prove that they belong, to really set those roots back into the ground after getting here and having such early success early on after they moved back to Los Angeles, and to really build around that

that substance. The Rams have a lot of style, and they get style points left, right and sideways, um all through the year for the moves they make and for the things that they can do, and then the passing concepts they have and some of the star defensive players, but winning beating a team that you have, uh, you know, for lack of all other you know, irony and storylines that were possible, this is the most ironic storyline that

they could have faced. And this is also the one that I think if they get past this provides them with the most substance, shows the most resilience, and the most substance that they have so um work toward proving um sort of despite a lot of external conversation about you know, what they're not, and I think it does also show this does show what they're not. They had a chance to close. They had a chance to eliminate

these guys and they didn't. They allowed them to sort of creep back in, just like they did in the game. And so you know, they want this chance to prove um that that this is who they really are, you know, not the guys who let other people hang around, but

the guys who can control their own fate. Um. And I think part of the thing that helps to um, you know, I would think it's a mental technique as well, knowing that you can get out to a lead in front of a team that is has uh, you know, six times in a row just handled you, knowing that you can get out to that lead, and then um figuring out that new part of yourself where you do clothes. Well, that's the thing about the Rams, Like in that first half when they got up seventeen, thing, do they look

like the best team in the NFL. They should have been up against the Bucks, the defending champs thirty four to three. At one point that looked like Jaguars Patriots for a while. It was just total domination. And what the forty Niners have done so well over the years I think is overwhelmed them with physicality. You know, they stopped the Rams running game last time around, and once you got into the second half, they started winning the pass rush battle. Uh, and they started pushing the Rams

around running bus. So to me, I would imagine that feels great, Like that's the ultimate challenge. I'm just wondering, like, as someone that's watched this team and seeing Sean McVeigh coach upfront, do you do you think some of this giving up the lead and the lack of killer instinct

Dan talks about, is it goes up to him? Because the thing that I'm always surprised about is how conservative he is by nature, not you know, fourth down decisions, maybe running the ball more when when you have the lead, even though the past is working, like in a game like Tampa, and then maybe just spinning forward to this one when the running game is not working, Like, do you trust Sean mc way to approach this like we're just gonna throw it on him, like we are not

going to be content just trying to get to the finish line here, Let's let's blow this team out. Let's be aggressive, because he hasn't he hasn't always been that coach. Yeah, I think one of the blocks that he faces and has so often against this team. Is um, you know, what do you do when all of the normal things

don't work? Um? Do you keep trying those things? Or do you try to push through even if it makes you uncomfortable or takes you to a part of yourself that you aren't usually showing in terms of that lack of conservatism that he normally does show and display so often. And that surprised me to come in to cover this team, because you don't look at this team on paper and think, oh, yeah, they almost quite literally never go for it on fourth

down or any of those things. And and so I think that, um to me, in order to if you if you're faced with a similar situation, and let's face it, the planets are aligning for all of this to be really similar to what we've seen in over the last couple of times, because it seems like that the story is written this way. And and to me, that's you

have to take the different path at that time. You have to keep being aggressive because um, he was plenty aggressive in the first half of that game, and just like what you're saying, Greg, he sort of you sort of turtle up a little bit and you sort of Um, you know, play to not lose, but I don't think you can do that anymore. I think you have to force yourself out of that box. You have to force yourself out of that comfort zone of what the safest decisions are and trust that this is a team that

again does operate really well in that crazy space. Uh. And I think that that's a really important factor he he's um trying to or should be trying to unlearn and then relearn at this point of the process because the rest of it hasn't worked. It really hasn't, and especially when a team like the forty niners is such a bad matchup for the Rams, in part because they can flood those margins, they can sort of u turn on their heads the spaces in which someone is playing

it too safe. Um. And I think that's been one of the biggest difference makers in these two teams, and the way that they're ethos is sort of composed for for that reason, and I think Sean McBay needs to almost like punch his way through that. Yeah, it's gonna be fascinating to see if the Rams, if the game script plays out similarly in Los Angeles has a as a lead. Do you let your veteran quarterback, the one that you met by happenstance in Cabo Incabo, do you

let him take you to the super Bowl. I kind of feel like that would be the way to play it. But listen, Sean McBay knows what he's doing. We'll see how he plays it if that presents itself. Jordan's you have you did it. You said it all. We feel more prepared to watch the Rams on Sunday thanks to you and everybody. Make sure we we mean it. You want to read some really great sports writing right now. Read everything from Jordan's over at the Athletic. Thank you

so much, and good luck this weekend. Thanks guys. I think my hands are shaking right now. I feel like we could have used more compliments, though you said you're going to keep complimenting. Yeah, well you guys. This is the thing. You guys reverse Sean mcnade me. You don't get now, I'm all thrown off. Do not get don't get conservative in your game right up now on Sunday night, you know you gotta go for it. Stick the landing. All right, good stuff, Thank you, Jordan, thank you. Thanks.

Jan's all right, there she goes, Yeah, she's great. And isn't it interesting that the Rams and Mark, I know you've had a complicated relationship at times with the Rams is a team that maybe gets too much love, but they really are a very interesting team at this moment in time. I don't mind talking about them, uh for extended periods. Well, I think they're right now. I don't have a problem with them being, you know, the bell

of the ball, because they've earned it now. It's when they come still covering them once they make it to the championship game that like deserve something. I already, like two months ago, gave up all willpower to desire anything to happen this season, I'm kind of enjoying it because things are getting spicy. Um. I would listen to her podcast to which I checked out today with Rich Hammond, like very good, very good Rams coverage there too, excellent journalist,

good guests. And I do think, um that if you had to power rank who she respects most, I think it's probably going to be easy for me to detect. I'll tell you later what my findings are. Where am I going? Am I still hard? You say that you respect and love the Rams more? Now after hearing that Stafford goes to these dark places, Oh entirely. I mean it adds a layer of complex intrigue that I didn't

really understand about Matthew Stafford before. I mean, I think you're in a dark place if you're in Detroit for a decade plus to begin with. But this is entirely from a different angle. I love that. I love so. I think it was made clear, but just to kind of hit it again after Stafford hit that big completion to set up the game, Yeah, yes, as it will forever be known. Um, after he spikes the ball, he's in another world, like he's in a dark place, and

you would think he'd be ecstatic. He not only did he take the hit and make the throw get down the field, spiked the ball and give him something, the team a chance. He was in some other place. I love that. Um, it's just the competitor within and this is kind of like his moment after a dozen years

in Detroit, never really getting the shot. I think he's seizing that, and that's something to remember when we decide who's gonna win this game on Sunday, that Stafford might have that I and the Tiger for a lack of a better description, and he and he took the hit from Endomican Sue, his old teammate and the zero blitz that Jared Goff was the guy who could never solve. You have to get rid of Jared Goff. And he

does that at all. It all like may Maybe he was just tired from running down the field, but I like that he's sort of blacked out in that moment. All right, now we can all black out if we want because the show's over, So just feel free to do that, but do it safely if that's possible. Um, Connie, thank you for joining us. You're You're always a bright shining light in our orbit, So thank you. Great to be back. Great you guys check compliments around all over

the place. You know, it's it's it's a good thing. It's a good thing to tell people that you respect, that you like being around them, and you're enjoying professionally working with him. That's okay, Mark, I know, but I've not heard anyone say that Um directed towards me. So I like working with you, Mark, I respect you for it's a fruitful relationship. We're coming up on our ten our ten years together here as co workers. It's been

totally pure, totally pure years, totally pure. Anyway, check out Connie also on the Split Ends podcast with Ricky Hollywood. We'll be back on Thursday with a proper preview. Listen. There's only three game is laugh now? We got two on Sunday and then the Big Boy. Well, Mark's all in. The got the Pro Bowl. Yeah, we got the Pro Bowl as well. Absolutely, um but yes, so if you count the Pro Bowl four, but we recognize three on this show. Don't tell Rog, don't tell any shadow. We

lead figures. Let's just leave it at that. Thank you for listening, and remember heat the h M s