The Around the NFL podcast hit twenty three miles per hour on next Gen Stance. Welcome to another edition of Around the NFL. I am Dan Hanss joined by heroes Greg Rosenthal and Mark Sessler. It is the post Christmas Day recap. We're gonna hit a bunch of games where you're gonna hit a TNF preview for yes week seventeen. My goodness, and I gotta say, guys, like, first of all, Happy Happy Day, Happy Day after Christmas and Boxing Day, Boxing Day to the Canadians. Shout out to the Canadians,
whatever that is, I hope you enjoy it. But after TNF and then the X miss Eve XL and then Jesus of Nazareth presents the Holiday Classic triple header, I'm now like the opposite of what I was talking about on Christmas Eve, where you know you have the old hidden gift routine. I'm terrified looking under the tree for a gift that has not been open. And all of a sudden it's the you know, Nashville Ninjas led by Brock Osweiler against the Vancouver Grizzlies led by John Beck.
And yeah, we know the Grizzlies were already taken, but the NFL didn't care. They just bought that website and they just added a couple more teams and it's going to do the biggest number of any show today. Also, this is now my fear, the fear of the gift not being seen yet.
I think Dan, you you said it well, because we were discussing this on text with a various with variable angst between the three of us. Greg seems to completely enjoy the scenario. Dan and Mark maybe a little bit less.
Greg's finally gotten it, He's got He's finally gotten what he wanted all those years ago. Football every day because Greg Greg quickly, Greg quickly turned around said but next week, you know, next year, Christmas is on Wednesday.
Yeah, we're going to avoid all of this, which you know in theory, you know, comforting.
But Dan, I thought you made the right point.
Was like, it doesn't matter when Christmas is, Like, the NFL will do this every Christmas Day and Christmas Eve for the rest of time, So whether you enjoy it or not, it will be in your life eternally.
I try to be a good sport about it. It was a busy day yesterday with all the things with the big holiday. I'm starting to think, Greg, your your family goes to Japan every Christmas, and I sometimes be like I feel bad for Greg, But now I'm thinking, like this is now sinking up perfectly for you, the way the New World is operating. But I you know, I.
Tried, No, it sucks.
I know, I know it does. I tried to keep up and be professional while also being a family man. And then I jumped on Twitter this morning. I got up early to get ready for these games we're about to talk about, and people are just going nuts on Twitter, apparently all throughout the night. Everyone listen the product. It's successful.
Well, I got to say, when you looked at the slate, you were like, Okay, there's some good teams here. But the games, you know, they other than the marquee one, which we'll start with one of the best, maybe the best matchup of the year, the others were like, okay, three out of four were like huge upsets with insane comebacks. They were like surprising results. So at the very least NFL did their thing in terms of like wow, because the league looks a little different, I feel like than
it did. Even when we tape Saturday night.
I agree with you on that, and we got to start with the most impactful game of the regular season that changed standings. It changed how the top and the bottom of the playoff picture looks with two weeks to play. It likely changed how the MVP will be decided. We'll go in reverse chronicle order, starting with Christmas Night in Santa Clara.
Raven stretch three receivers to the right, Labar Jackson fax the toss to the right, throws across a.
Little touchdown, say Flowers, and the Ravens strike on back to back.
Drives and it is done.
I just believe here at Levi Stadium in Santa Clara.
Wow.
Lamar Jackson throws two touchdown passes in the span of eighteen seconds, wrapped around one of brock Party's four interceptions, and they coast. Really, this is a game that started out as a heavyweight fight. I said that to my father in law as we're watching it. As a game goes to halftime. By like midway through the third quarter, it was just kind of running out the clock. Maybe got a little bit interesting at the very end, but you always knew that this was a Ravens night, a
dominating performance. Thirty three to nineteen over the mighty thought to be unstoppable San Francisco forty nine ers, like I said, at the Big Bell Bottom, and that is a changes greg a lot about what you think. It removes the invincibility cloak around the Niners. Like I said, brock Party kind of threw himself out of the MVP conversation. Potentially
we'll see. Lamar Jackson and the Ravens once again affirmed that they are an absolute wrecking crew that should not be looked over by anyone, and they made sure everyone knew it on one of the biggest stages, if not the biggest stage, of the entire regular season.
I love this Ravens team all season because there's no weak spot. Like they have their weeks where they're not impressive overall. They barely squeak past the Chargers even a week ago, like they weren't all the way impressive. But they have bomb drop games that won against the Lions, that went against the Seahawks. They've beaten seven different winning teams by at least fourteen points this year, which would be an NFL record. No team has ever done that
more than five times, which is crazy. And they're just so physical and I think the contrast with the quarterbacks, it's the easiest place to start, but I do think it's the right place to start here where there was one in Lamar who started the game off kind of like the last couple of weeks. The offense looks discombobulated, but by the middle of the second quarter he settles down and he's just so calm and relaxed when there is pressure around him. When he's running. No one else
runs in slow motion like him. It almost seems like he's not accelerating, just trying to avoid the hit, and it's all happening in a very calm manner. I've really felt that all season, whereas Purdy, in a tougher matchup against a better defense, was sped up all night, and I just think he was a tick late because of what he was seeing, and that tick late was enough
to cause these mistakes. He was hesitating, and he was kind of what you don't want to be as a quarterback mark, which is like the combination of too slow and hesitant and then too rushed at times. And it was enough to make those big plays and really highlight what a vicious Ravens defense this is when they're playing their best.
Yeah, this this Baltimore team. I kind of loved reading some of the reporting around this game post game where they got they got off the plane and you know, they're three and zero on the West Coast. They won a game in London. There isn't really a situation they're not prepared for, and I think that has a lot to do with John Harbaugh. But they they got off the plane and they were annoyed by the point spread
they were. They came into the game feeling that, like nationally and Greg you were one of the first people way back in September to point to the Ravens as a team that was complete, that had Super Bowl vibes to them. You know, they were weird early on, and I thought they were an awkward team. Even when we were in London. We thought that their performance was a little awkward. But I thought last night was sort of the apex of who they are and what they wanted
to be. And they were very annoyed by the national perception that they weren't the equal of the Niners, and it was Yes, it was their offense, but I thought their defense made Rock Party look confused at times. Now Brock party only had two actual turnover worthy plays according to PFF. I mean there are four picks. And yes, you can say yanksam out of the MVP conversation. I don't buy that entirely because I think it's it's your
overall body of work. But I can see how the voters would see that the Ravens right now are as complete a team as you'll find in the league. And they've They've absolutely destroyed the Lions, the Jaguars, they blew up the Seattle Seahawks, and they did what they just did to the Niners. So it's like there's really no way to talk about anything about them other than to say that they are the favorite in the AFC. And I don't buy Lamar Jacksons as MVP, but that's.
Just me personally.
I don't even think he's as good as he was when he was the MVP. But all that is fine. Like the Ravens right now are in an up and down league. They're the premier AFC squad.
Yeah, yeah, I think the Ravens listen the league changes so fast, because, like we said, the Niners seem to be a potential historic juggernaut and they still could be This could be a bad, ugly bump in the road. We've learned too much covering this game and doing the show to count out teams based on a result in Week sixteen. But it was eye opening on both sides. And the Ravens. Yeah they're bad dudes. I mean, these
guys they are. What they went out there and showed is that with all the pretty weapons the Niners have, there are certain teams that are good matchups against that type of Kyle Shanahan attack. Baltimore is one of them. Baltimore would love to see the Niners again in the Super Bowl if it ever got to that. Here's Patrick Queen talking about that difference.
You play a Brandon football and people don't want to play. Everybody want to be out here q playing basketball on grass and stuff. I mean, we ain't with all that. So you can do all that stuff. You just gonna hit in the mouth every play. Honestly, you know, get care of this by all the pretty stuff you do, gammixed stuff. He just out line, we still have had a line of play football. You still have to get touch. So that's how Mind said, that's how we want to come out and just you know, hit people in.
The mouth and Greg. You know, the game opens with a Ravens going three and out on the road. The crowd is hot, everyone's pumped, and then San Francisco immediately goes right down the field. A big kittle reception is the key to that drive and then Party. You know, he targets Steve O Samuel and the game. Games can swing on single plays, and you know if he hits Steve O Samuel at that throw, and he does, it's a better job looking off the safety and he fits
that in there. All of a sudden, the Nighters jump ahead early and Purdy's feeling himself, but once that ball gets picked off, it is that change in the air. And while Purdy maybe he wasn't four interceptions bad, if you study the game tape, there were bad throws and he got away with a couple as well. Baltimore just made him look like everything that the Party doubters have been saying that he is someone that is not special
despite the stats being special. And I thought that interception kind of set the table for the rest of the night.
Yeah, that was one kind of what I'm talking about, where he was late and he's not gonna stop firing it, but even earlier that drive, I thought, hmmm, like he had his best two throws the Knight to Kittle, but he dirts one to McCaffrey. Maybe that was the next drive on third down where McCaffrey's open and he just kind of throws it in the dirt, which is a
very strange play. He took a bad sack on I think it was fourth down on that very drive and they got bailed out by a holding call on the other side, but he held onto the ball to and I think about the other interception where he throws across his body, which is also just great defense. Like perty, Yeah, he had a bad game, but you have to give credit to like Kyle Hamilton coming on a very creative blitz. That's what makes Perdy leave the pocket a little early.
And then Perdy makes the bad decision to throw a back across his body and Humphrey makes a terrific and maybe he didn't get a turnover where he played for this one. Humphrey makes a terrific deflection in Hamilton, who had been blitzing, comes back and makes the interception. So I think it was a combination. But I'm glad we had Queen because the way you can stop San Francisco and no one's built for it in the NFC, in my mind, is with great linebacker plays and it's great physicality.
The forty nine ers are supposed to be the toughest team in the league, they're supposed to have the best linebackers. But if you have two guys in Rokon Smith and Patrick Queen that can stay on the field and actually keep up for the most part with their running game and passing game without getting exposed, because that's what she and Ann likes to go after, then you can maybe get them off there game. They're just used to winning
that matchup. They did not in this one. But I don't know if there's a team in the nfcuh that has that. Let's listen to Purdy after this game talking about his performance.
You know, for me, it's like, you know, I got to ask myself, all right, like who who are you?
You know?
What do you stand for?
You know?
Who are you when things are good? Who are you when things don't go your way? It's easy to you know, be riding high and thinking you're the man when things are going well, winning games and all kinds of stuff. And you don't really see you know, a whole lot of adversity in some games and whatnot. And you know, this is the reality of the NFL.
Great Mark, the Steinbrunner doctrine is firmly in place for this forty nine Ers team. It's win the Super Bowl or bust. I'm not gonna I'm not going down the road of is Rock Purdy gonna get benched? But Sam Darnald did come in at the end of this game after Purdy got beat up. Daniel Jeremiah part of the discourse on Twitter last night saying, you know, there's just arm strength here that Donald possesses that he can make throws that Party cannot make. And football is an unpredictable sport.
You know, once upon a time Earl Murrow won the MVP for the Baltimore Cults and got benched for a over the hill injured Johnny Unitis in the Super Bowl. I think Party has to respond with these in these last two games. Forget about the MVP race, but just to kind of quell fears that this is all unraveling with the biggest games of his life coming.
Up, he will respond.
I mean, like I think that something that I find so mentally ponderous with these Island games is what happens based off of one performance, like can we mix in this food coloring with the rest of what we've seen from brock Party, which is like, he's been super consistent, he's mentally tough, like his teammates Adorham.
Like the idea that you'd go replace him.
I know you're not saying this, but the idea that you'll replace him with Sam Darnold is utterly and beyond absurd to me. Like I'm glad this game happened to brock Party.
I really am.
I'm glad because I think number one, the way he sponded right there verbally is how he's going to respond physically, and like the idea that this is suddenly who this quarterback is. He played a great defense, There was incredible athletic plays on two of his interceptions. Rock Purty in general has been careful with the football outside of a couple games. He's been mentally consistent, He uses his weapons well,
like I absolutely expect him to bounce back. I cannot believe that it's taking him out of the MVP conversation entirely.
It's all it's all it is.
He's just for it. But I think in the ads actually so he's I know, but it's just it's.
Everything that happened, like within the last twenty four hours is all we respond to. It's like Rock Purty over the course of this entire season and last season when he played, has been the same guy in ninety five percent of the time, and so I just he will bounce back and I cannot wait to see that happen.
You know what it is though, it is just one game, and we talk about it all the time. It's it's not just about production or pop the hood's stats. It's about the stories and about perception with MVP, and we talked about it on Thursday, Greg, you were talking about Lamar and this is Lamar's chance to get back in the MVP race. And I thought Lamar was very good in this game, just like he's been very good to great all season for a great AFC team in the Ravens.
But I think you can lose. I didn't factor that, and I didn't think on that stage for Brock to totally totally face plant. I do think that has a chance to really stick in the minds of voters, and I know, the Niners have much more important things. Speaking of which Greg the discord to my least favorite factions.
Although I like a lot of the people involved in these conversations in social media is lamarmy and everyone just trying to say, listen to me, this is the guys, the dude, and then the people that are saying Brock party can't actually play everything colliding in that game. So right now, from where we stand, the day after Christmas, after this great meltdown, Lamar Jackson is now the MVP Vegas says, and Brock Purdy has been exposed. I do agree with you, Mark, everybody's got to kind of take
a deep breath. But I wouldn't throw it out entirely because that is a huge stage where I think Perty could have put a stamp on MVP, and instead he kind of led to a ton of questions about himself and that award.
Right, the Ravens have a very tough matchup this week against Miami, very tough defense, so like that could be a tough matchup for Lamar. The Niners have two easy matchups, exceedingly easy, so I don't think it's going to prove, you know, the RAMS defense. I wouldn't say is exceedingly easy, but just numbers wise, they're below average in general. So the forty nine ers have commanders rams and look, if you look at the top five, I think it's totally fine.
People are so strident about MVP, and I love Lamar. I think he's I think if you watch him week to week and you include the rushing yards and everything that he does, he's a totally legit MVP. Can I don't have a strong feeling. I look at it and it's the six that are the highest favorites right now in Vegas are Lamar. I think number two is CMC, who would have been my pick going into last night,
and I still might be on line too. Tua is third, Purty is fourth, Josh Allen's fifth, Dak is sixth, and Tyreek is seventh, And I don't think there's like some great separation between any of those seven if you really wanted to make different sort of cases. I my gut feel is that Josh Allen's actually been the best quarterback in the NFL this year. I've felt that for most of the season, even before these last three weeks, but because it's such a weird year and there's no big separation.
Like I'm kind of good with anyone, and Lamar and CMC both makes sense to me too, if like one
of them ends up winning it. I just think, like even last night, you've got a lot look at those stats, and Lamar's stats aren't crazy good, but you just start with the middle section of that game, when like the Ravens had the first and twenty late at halftime, and he hits those two difficult passes, and then he has the great scramble to get three before halftime, and then suddenly eight plays into the second half, three of which were really good improvs by him. The other was the
touchdown to Flowers. They're up by eighteen points, and you've seen that a lot in Ravens games, where like at the key moments, Lamar just like puts people away with really special stuff. So like he's a legit choice too. I'm not gonna get like worked up if any any one of those other guys get it.
Though.
I would say one thing about the Ravens, like both of these teams have like veteran coaching staffs. The Niners have like had their defensive coordinator plucked like forty two years in a row and so you're dealing with that. But like Todd Monkin, who I really had questions and
suspicions about that working out, it's working out. And Mike McDonald on defense, like I don't even know if he's the defensive coordinator if you don't have Jim Harbaugh linked to John Harbaugh who knew McDonald from Michigan and all this time, I.
Think he's gonna get a job this offseason too. He's been so good.
Well yeah, And so I would say both of these coordinators for the Ravens have worked out so well, and there's so well coached, and like their team is not star studded, it's not a top heavy They're different to me than the Niners, where it's like the Niners have If you if you were to look at these two rosters and say, pick the ten best players, like nine of them eight or nine of them are probably from the Niners, I would say, But then like the Ravens
just somehow year after year jail so well and like what they did on defense last night, they were the more physical team. I think what Patrick Queen is saying is so right. It's not the style of football that we want to watch every week. He was talking about basketball on grass for the rest of the NFL. I so get what he's saying, and it's like that.
Type of team.
It's just like I think this Ravens team is just like we don't really we don't DGAF to the rest of the league. And they and they made they sent a message last night. And when it comes down to MVP, it's about voters and what they see and how they feel.
And like, I think there's a different conversation.
Like who is the MVP and who the voters are going to vote for these guys that we're allowing to vote for.
This two different conversations.
I've I've looked at the results in voting and some like sixteen votes get it done out of fifty, like you you know, it's like sixteen to twelve to nine to eight. It's not often that that happens, but there have been years like that, and this feels like it might be a year like that.
I agree with everything both of you said, and Greg what you were saying about MVP being truly wide open with worthy people, but I do stand by the stage matters and I think Brock if he even plays okay last night and just kind of coast to the finish line. It's his award, but he just opened the whole thing up and it's a truly And we've been we've been ahead of the national media on this because now people are talking about how this MVP race is interesting and
different than past years. We've been talking about it for a few weeks now. I think, yeah, I think Christan McCaffrey is the guy having a historic year and a year where Lamar and Josh Allen are having great years in a down year at the position a quarterback, and I think there's just things to take into account. Finally, Trent Williams, left tackle, Niners, keep an eye on this. He's got a growing injury. We'll see. He finished that
game on the sideline on a short week. We'll see if he plays against Washington and and hopefully for San Francisco. He is okay. And also Rock Party did exit that game with a stinger as well, so I imagine he's gonna be okay. But injuries there as well. And last little weird note, they showed this on the telecast and
NFL the Twitter handle official Twitter handle amplified it. John Harbaugh who's obviously feeling great as he deserves to after a game like that, had a kind of a strange exchange with Rock Purty on the worst night of his professional career. Let's actually credit Matt Lively on Twitter with this. John shakes his hand, looks him in the eyes. People tell me we look alike. Then you see Purty after the handshake walking away, like, are you kidding me? Do you look alike?
He's not now?
Not now, John. That's that's that's very flip and trivial in a very dark moment for an injured Rock party after the worst game of his career. By the way, congratulations Mark, you a lock off. You were pretty fired up on text last night, but you you were. You have no reason to be in a bad mood because the the Ravens absolutely made a statement on your behalf as you beat both Nick Westling and Greg Rosenthal and a huge, huge spot.
Well, I mean I so I urged Greg to do this for the show.
Yeah that was a great Greg. I hope you're taking the right lessons out of that.
Yeah, Yeah, that was that was a bad lock I thank Nick for making it as well.
So it was, But like Nick challenged you Greg, imagine how sweet it would have been on top of that Nick challenging manhood lock off with me, and then you instead sided with Nick Westling and then you end.
Up Well, I didn't know I was siding with him. I I make the picks, and that was a very wrong pick. I shouldn't have I shouldn't have doubted, doubted this team. But yes, I've never seen a person enjoy a lock uh less. I I got out of our final Channel five broadcasts of the year, thanks for everyone watch it over there. Uh got into my car and saw an insane amount of hatred towards the Ravens and the sport and and everything. It's like, I was a
joy in the hell out of that game. That's how I knew my heart was.
I know you of course you were, But of course you were. You're like like the Why and the Lamarmie, so of course you were.
It felt like a great sworting event and then it and then it went sideways.
But I totally like, so, I I do acknowledge that, like, it's not even a Browns thing with the Ravens.
It isn't it.
I do think the Ravens fans in general, it's like if you're not, like, if you're above the age of twenty, understand where the team came from. I've been down that road before verbally, but like, I am quite fascinated with the Sniners team, and I don't like what happened, and it put me in a bad mood. And it's like this crowning of the Ravens on December twenty fifth. Cool, let's see what happens the super Bowl does not occur on December twenty four one.
No one's crowding him. I thought about that last night, Like, look, if they don't win the super Bowl they had last night. These are valuable as as fans like enjoy that you just won on Christmas Night against the like forty if you can't enjoy it at moment, if you can't enjoy that win, even if in the end you lose in the AFC Championship game, like that is. This is a fun couple of weeks to be a Ravens fan.
Beest dog. You were big mad. I don't think I've ever seen you so mad on text as you were last night.
Really, I think there's I don't even know if it made the top ten.
I don't know if it made the top three of this week.
All right, let's take a break and we'll hit the rest of the games. Taylor.
But Taylor is looking.
He steps up, he starts the pump, he starts.
To run, He is diving around, he is loading up, he is firing, and it is intercepted by the Eagles, and the Gables over and is intercepted by Keeley Wringo and the Eagles finally a breather. Three game losing streak have I had their eleventh winter of season.
Yes, it wasn't pretty, and it really has not been pretty for the Eagles for the last month or so, but they got what they needed on Christmas Day a win, snapping a three game losing streak with a thirty three to twenty five win over the Giants. Jalen Hurts had a productive day one week after being ill. On that
big stage. He throws a touchdown pass, he also runs for a score and the Eagles, despite Mark not playing a championship level of football, they do enough to beat the Giant and take one step closer to the NFC East title, which is theirs for the taking with the Cowboys stumbling the last two weeks.
Yeah, I mean wasn't It wasn't pretty. It doesn't quiet some of the questions, but you put up four hundred and sixty five yards on offense, one hundred and seventy rushing. You know, Matt Patricia. The move to Matt Patricia, I mean obviously got on everyone's radar. But you went out and had Tommy DeVito benched. You accomplished that. One of the biggest sports stories in the NFL this season. So I don't like, I think in general, it's like if we're going to freak out over the Niners and wonder
where they are at this point. And I'm not saying we're doing that, but like, if there's all this like calamity mindset about what happened last night, This didn't change what I think about the Eagles. I think they are imperfect compared to what we saw down the stretch last year. But this was probably a pretty good game for Jalen Hurts actually, and I thought that, you know, AJ Brown and Demonta Smith showed up, the running game got going, like it got a little weird down the stretch with
the Giants coming back into this. But it for me, the Eagles, it's just like, are they going to figure out all the problems. They're kind of like the NFC's a better version of the NFC's Chiefs, where it's like, I think what they're dealing with, they're going to be dealing with. It's like, do I trust them to win a couple of playoff games?
Yes? I do.
I mean it's just like this is sort of just another step on the ladder.
I don't trust them at all. And it also hurts through a pick six I should put in there too, so his turnover issues another calamitous turnover that let the Giants wrap back in this game. I came out of this game, yeah, feeling no different about the Philly Eagles based on the three losses before.
I felt so different after reading the coverage and listening to a little coverage that I did after watching it on condens this morning. I did not watch this game live. I wouldn't saw a movie yesterday with a friend out during the well. Zone of interest very counter programming.
Who's in zone of interest?
It is about, uh, the family who like lives right next to our Schwitz and like and like you never see inside and it's just like the banality of them like fixing their garden and all this the bureaucracy listeners.
This is my fault. Yeah, I did not know I was walking into yet another Nazi conversation on this program.
But thank you, Jonathan Blazer.
A great movie.
No, I wouldn't say great, but it was good.
It's around every corner.
I did watch Christmas Vacation the night before, you know, I like, I watched Uncondensed, and I thought, oh, this does make me feel a little different. This was the game they needed. Twenty eight first down, four hundred and sixty five yards, a bunch of special plays by Jalen Hurts. He definitely ran better than he's run maybe all season. I thought he looked spry, like they need to be an elite goddter. I thought it his best game of
the year. Quicker decisions by Hurts, all this, even the pick six Dan was Goddard just fell on that play. It was just like, okay, flippy bad luck. And the other touchdown there Giants got early in the second half is like the return man collided into another guy on the special turns thing and then it you know, turned it over in the ten. So it felt a little fluky. The only the only real Eagles thing that was bad was giving up that big touchdown late in the game.
That was bad defense. But then I saw the coverage and it's like Siriani is in an argument on the sideline with Ausan Reddick and DeVonta Smith and aj Brown are like trying to step in and are like kind of arguing with him too, and then they give up on it because like Sirianni is going crazy that like the second the game ends, they actually pan to Sirianni and DeVante Smith, who still seemed to be not happy about something. They blew the two minute drive at the
end of the first half too. After the game, AJ Brown did not talk to the media even though they won. DeVante Smith literally said like, yeah, we you know, we had a good game, but we're not happy. And then this Jalen Hurts quote that we have also struck me of. Just like, man, the vibes are just so weird with this team.
With the standard that we talked about, that double air sort of you know what's more important winning or the standard. It's a very manipulative thing to the mind sometimes. But I can go play to the standard and lose, and I'll be sitting at home sick. I can go win in that play to the standard, and I can be like, man, we got some more in us, you know, we can go chase it. So it's the fight that we bouts as competitors.
Nobody's having fun. Nobody's having fun with the Eagles this year. It just seems like a very different situation. And you're right, Greg that there is obvious and we know it because the drama on the defensive side of the ball with the coordinator and of these other examples you're pointing out that the house is not a happy one. And again,
everything can change by week, by the playoffs. So week sixteen is week sixteen, and we can't form permanent judgments, but there is a lot of building evidence that it's, yeah, there's there's trouble in Philly, whether or not they won yesterday.
I think like one thing, like when we talked about that like Collision Low Crossers book that we were slightly obsessed with about ten years ago. It's like what it taught you a lot about was like coordinators and why they matter and how much time you spend with them during the week, and how like a lot of times certain players are with their position, coaches, their coordinators much more than they would ever be around like Sirianni or the head coach, and it's like you've changed the environment
for both sides of the ball. And like we just about the Ravens. It's working really well in Baltimore and there's no complaints, but I'm with you, Dan, like something here and I don't know if it's like a coaching thing or that, because that's two weeks in a row where Jalen hurts. His postgame press conference is quite mystifying, and it feels like there's coded language and something else
being said that's hard to totally unpack. But it's like the Ravens are the Eagles a year ago were like the high vibes, fun team coming out of nowhere, and right now it's like the energy feels to be dragging them down. I something strange going is going on.
Ray.
I saw these Brandon Graham quotes where he was kind of like, man, we got to enjoy this and like he almost said it, even said it to Jalen, like we want to see you kind of having fun and being happy. Because I think what Jalen was saying if and it was tough to figure out, was kind of like he he has a certain level that he wants to play to, and he's been saying all season, like I'm not playing to that level even though we're winning.
So it's like so now he's just like in a weird mental space where like they can't even enjoy these wins because there's just like some mystical level that they're not reaching. And I don't know, there's something weird here. And yet if you just watch their offensive tape, it was their best game in a long long time. I know it was against the Giants, but the Giants defense been a little better when Lawrence is out there, and he was out there, like they had a great offensive game.
There were a couple of moments in this game they could have totally folded and they went on these long drives, Like after that pick six, they responded with an awesome kind of vintage running drive and they had a couple of clock killing drives late. They didn't finish them, but they were good, like they had a good offensive day.
Has has there ever been a more obvious tease to a seth Wickersham expose coming straight for your ass. It's either gonna be middle January, late January maybe if he needs more time to work on it February. But we're gonna get some of the dirt because I just get a feeling that the Sirianni ship might leak as well when things take a turn to postseason irrelevance, which I just sincerely believe. This is not Philadelphia's year. But they're gonna win the division. So the Giant side, by the way.
I mean, they gotta win both of these games, and I guess wait or no, do they they only need to win one? Probably that's true.
They're in good position obviously with the Cowboys losing these two weeks. The Giant side, I think the only real takeaway and people shouldn't be surprised by this because he's not really a prospect. It's just been a really nice story. But Tommy Devido gets benched and Tyrod Taylor plays better than him because he is better than him. And now
the only real question there, Mark is Brian Dable. Do I ride with a younger quarterback to continue quote unquote to develop him, or do I put the quarterback on the field that probably gives us the best chance to win. Giants fans are going to be probably pulling hard for DeVito's return, both because he's a cult hero in the Tri State area and also the worst quarterback gives you
a better draft pick at this point. But it'll be interesting to see where the head coach and leadership there comes down.
Yeah, I mean, I guess if I'm Brian Dabel number one, I think like job totally safe. I do think he's He's shown some stuff as a coach, Like I would rather bring DeVito back into the fold and like have him have a good game or two and show that, like that development that I did with a player that no one had ever heard of before, like shows my ability as a coach versus we know what Tyrod Taylor is and like winning, like trying to win with Tyrod
Taylor does literally nothing for the Giants. So I would go back to DeVito. He's been one of the better stories. He had a rough situation here against the Eagles, But if you're a dable, like go show your QB whispering skills a.
Rough game against the Saints too, And you know who's rooting for DeVito to get the job too is the Rams and the Eagles, who have big games again against the Giants. Because I think they'll feel more comfortable. Dabele did speak on Tuesday about it, saying he wouldn't reveal what he's doing, which is usually a sign they're gonna make a choice. It has been a different tie Rod
this year. For what it's worth, he leads the NFL with quarterbacks with one hundred dropbacks in big time throw percentage, which is very unlike Tyler Rod, who's usually very safe. He's also missed a lot of throws too. But he's just like taking big chances and hitting a lot of them. I don't know, Maybe it's he's just in his yolo. I may never get a chance again.
Just stay away from the stargers, doctor, and you'll continue to make these big throws.
I'm not crazy, right like, and not to offend, you know, members of the Knights of Columbus and so on listening to the show. But Tomy Devido can't play, right like, what do we We must develop or we're gonna qb whisper. It was nice, it was a nice story.
Right, he's not ready to play right now. I think I think he could have a career, but he's he's maybe the worst starter in the league. I would agree with you on that.
All right, let's keep moving. That's what I was looking for. I'm not crazy to Arrowhead where just you just can't make sense of it. You cannot make sense of what has happened to the Chiefs this year. Chiefs takeover on our twenty five.
Kelsey out of the gun, rolls out to his right, tries to find his receiver, ster scept it down the sideline, intercepted, Jack Jones heading watching touchdown. Back to back plays for the defense with touchdowns, and the Raiders defense has completely flipped this game in Kansas City.
I mean, come on now, after the Chiefs put up what like minus twenty yards in the first quarter, they have back to back turnovers on offense that give the Las Vegas Raiders they're only touchdowns of the game. And Kansas City then has two quarters to get things figured out and win a game and win a division. They can't do it because they can't make plays on offense. Final score Raiders twenty, Chiefs fourteen. The chief You know,
bye bye, it's not even a question anymore. No more talking Mark about the Chiefs somehow finding a way to get the number one seed. That ain't happening now. It's just about holding off the Raiders and the Broncos for the division, which they will, and they will have one home game in the playoffs, But call the fight. This offense has never looked more broken. You said it Greg on Thursday, that they've actually gotten worse since the buye and this game, Mark there is watch this tape. Everybody
who hasn't seen this game. No one's open. And now Mahomes is in a position where he's clearly clearly pressing, and he's making mistakes too. The whole thing is broken and they won't be able to fix it until after this depressing, frustrating season's over.
Yeah, I thought it was, you know, arguably the worst game of Patrick Mahomes's career. And a lot of credit to the Raiders too. It's not just the Chiefs thing. They have allowed the least points per game since Antonio Pierce took over as coach, and so there's something really happening with the Raiders. But you know, we just talked about Siriani tangling with a player like that, Travis Kelcey Andy Reid entanglement at the end of that or during that game stood out as I mean, you just haven't
seen with Kansas City. It's been nothing but feel good vibrations the entire time, and their offense is like, well, I think there are these teams that we just assume will suddenly transform and fix everything and become like the superpower we once knew. It's like, it's not gonna happen
with the Chiefs. I just don't think so. And it's like, if you told me in this game like that Aid and O'Connell would not complete a pass after the first quarter, that for the next three quarters, Aid and O'Connell would not complete a pass, I would say this is gonna be a Kansas City romp, just by the sheer statistical unusual nature of that. The last team to win a game where they had not completed a pass after the first quarter you have to go back to two.
Thousand, the Bengals twenty three years ago.
And so like the Raiders weren't like on the other side of the ball torching the Chiefs defense.
It's just that Kansas City could not unhook.
And I feel like this is a team at this point now where I'm like, when they get picked off in the playoffs and they will, I will not be surprised at all.
And I don't think either of you will be surprised.
No, and Raiders fans will get to giving you some love because that was a fun, fun game. If you're a Raiders going to Arrowhead on a big stage, getting that win and staying alive. They got to they actually have a legit chance to make the playoffs here, but we got to stay with the Chiefs. They had negative yards through four drives, negative yards the Chiefs. They had the lowest amount of yards in the first quarter. I think of any team, what was it in the last
nineteen years, it's something like this, totally totally insane. Then they finally get a touchdown drive and that precedes the two defensive touchdowns in seven seconds. I mean one is where they're getting too cute because they can't just like run a normal running play successfully. They're like new problems are popping up, which is to me what's worrisome. They are getting worse. Uh Rashid. Rice was at the center
of a lot of the miscommunications. Probably four I was living and dying by because I was watching for my kids. Fantasy team was Rice on it. Walker's got Rice. I'm hoping for a big day And there was probably about five different plays where him and Mahomes were not on the same page, including a big fourth down. You had Mahomes yelling at the offensive line, and that's what really stuck out to me in this game was they could
not run the ball. Their success rate on early downs was disastrous running before Pacheco got a concussion, and the offensive line was getting absolutely housed in pass protection. Malcolm Koons and Crosby. They've really kind of remade their defense because Coon's has gone nuts the last three or four weeks, and like, well, you got new problems popping up. Like this offense has gone from like, wow, they're kind of mediocre to like they're they're bad. I'm with you, Mark.
That probably was the worst Mahomes game I've ever seen. He could have had four or five interceptions.
And now Isaiah Pacheco, he's in the concussion protocol on a really I mean brutal luck whereas helmet pops off and then he gets kicked in the head. Their guard Tray Smith hurt his leg in the fourth quarter. They have Cincinnati on Sunday, and Cincinnati is a team that's obviously pretty hot and cold. It's themselves right now, but it's just crazy. It's crazy to watch it. And I know the prevailing sentiment now is Antonio Pierce deserves to
be the head coach of the Raiders. Okay, I mean I would say I would push back a little bit in that they're obviously playing hard for him. They've caught in a couple of teams flat footed and delivered really spirited efforts. But they also got b three nothing at home once they didn't have a completion after the first quarter in this game. I wouldn't if I'm Mark Davis, I would. I would take a look at the whole picture and what are you trying to build there before
getting sucked in by a really fun December. But I'll leave it at that because I don't want to be the grinch with Antonio Pierce and the Raiders, because it has really been from where they were with Josh McDaniels got fired to having any conversation about the playoffs now is really commendable.
I'll push back on that. I like the idea of them keeping him right now.
Just that's the general sentiment energy.
I mean, I'm a little torn because I'm with you, Like offensively, they've had some good play calls, but you know that hasn't changed. But he is a defensive coach, and the difference there is something more about being a head coach and getting your players to play for you. And they look like a completely different team. Like I know they've caught teams that are the right time or whatever, but they're the team that got stalely fired. No one else did that to them. They're the team that did
this to Mahomes. No one else did that to them. And I think Mark Davis will be informed by what happened with Basacia, who he's voice some regret about the way he handled that. The next two games are big, They're at Indy and then home for Broncos if they want, if they win those two games, which would be tough. They still got to win these two games with O'Connell. But if they won the those two games, there's actually a sixty something percent chance they make the playoffs. According
to the New York Times. That's krat which is just crazy.
And Greg like I like, I think that it comes down to, like these hirings are obviously like owner's choice. And to hear what Mark Davis said about not hiring Basaci, which he like really regrets.
He verbally regretted.
I think that informs this. I think he's going to get the job. And and Dan, you're right, like it's the sample size is small. But then like you go hire someone else with no sample size as a head coach too.
It's like I would say the same.
These same Raiders players were uninspired and underperforming under Josh McDaniels, and that had a lot to do, I think with personality and coaching staff, and like they're all so much better now. It's and they want to play for him, like you got you at least you know you have that.
He's just so raidary. That's to me, what does it is?
All that stuff is what I'm like, okay, because I mean I know that too, Like I don't know, like he he put it this way. He also replaced the right guy. I think he. I think McDaniels is in that club occupied by only a few. Adam Gase was waiting for him smoking a cigarette when he arrived at the door of truly overmatched, disliked failures at head coach.
And it makes everything look even better in case anybody doesn't know, because it is a blip in the NFL radar, but Rich Bassacia was on John Gruden's coaching staff in twenty twenty one when Gruden gets himself fired for being a dumbass, and then Bassacia takes that team to the playoffs with a ten and seven season. That's their only trip to the playoffs in the last seven years. So yeah, there was the Basachia bump and now the Pierce pop and we'll see what happens to the rest of the way.
I mean, he's taken like cast offs. This defense is not that talented other than Crosberry, like Jack Jones was. You know, he's talented, but he got cut by the Patriots earlier this year. He's taken a bunch of castoffs and had like the top three defense since he took over, which is, you know, what more can you do?
Sure? Absolutely commendable, do it. We have my home sound, but I think we kind of know. He still believes, but you know he knows, he knows, And don't you dare anybody out there, don't blame this on Taylor Swift. I don't want to hear it and not her fault. Maybe your boyfriend got a little older too, But this
is not about Taylor. This is about Brett Veach and Andy Reid having to come to Jesus moment because I know it's the personnel's bad, but maybe this is a wake up call that maybe it's time the scheme needs to You know, it's been an incredible run by the Chiefs, but this is a whole different thing. Let's close out with the Christmas Eve game at Mile High, another one that was hard to figure out. Ryland Wakes leaning forward in the stairs, the snap, the spot, the kit clears
the line sadly to the uprights. It's killing. There's God, the kid did it.
With two seconds to go, Hyler, just give it.
The Patriots put twenty six, twenty three lead here in Denver.
He's moved by his teammates on the far side, and how good must that feel? I couldn't tell the howling and pain in the crowd was that Broncos fans or Patriots fans. The Pats entered Christmas Eve with the number two overall pick in the draft lined up but behind Chad Ryland, the fourth round pick who's had his struggle as a kicker. He hits a fifty six yard field goal seconds two seconds to play, and the Patriots another team that scored two touchdowns in less than seven seconds
over this holiday round of games. They jump way ahead, hold off a Broncos rally, and win twenty six to twenty three. Mark that Ryland kick cap to seven play forty four yard drive that began with fifty eight seconds left after Denver goes three and out with their chance to win the game. The Broncos all but done in the AFC playoff race and they have no one to blame but themselves. You got to win at home against the Patriots on Christmas Eve night.
Yeah, I mean like New England scores twenty of their twenty six points in the third quarter. I mean it start the game starts. It was handed to Denver to get a big start. Like Zappy fumbles the ball deep in his own territory right on like the first play, and Denver is sitting there with a touchdown, like you know, a gift touchdown, looking them in the face and they don't score. And like they have multiple drives out of the gate where like they could not get anything going
on offense. I think their first three drives started in New England territory for zero points. So a lot of it is just comes back to the fact that the Broncos have been a good story in general. Like Sean Payton, after a disastrous start, you thought, well, maybe this is a fringe playoff team, and you go out and you need to handle your business against a very you know, the equivalent of a sitting duck in the New England Patriots.
They've been a good defense Courtland Sutton going out to not help Denver at all, But like, this is a this is the end of the Broncos season, and I find them to be visually I was watching this game, you know, you know, without taking notes to sort of trying to observe it, Like I don't need this team in the playoffs. They are visually dull to me, and I need the Bronzes to go figure out something else over the course of this offseason.
I think it's the end of Russell Wilson. I really do.
I believe that Russell Wilson's journey with Denver has come to a close.
After the season.
I tend to agree because of games like this, which kind of was the whole thing. I thought it was one of his worst games, maybe his worst of the season until the fourth quarter. At that point they had already had eleven drives, which is a whole game for most teams, and they had like one hundred and sixty yards at that point. There was actually a stretch. I think they had five drives in a row that had a total of negative fifteen yards, and so they just
like couldn't get anything done. He was just scrambling for no reason, like running around doing crazy stuff, and none of it was working. Then the fourth quarter starts and suddenly he turns into you know, Pete Russell Wilson. They put up sixteen points. They do the Super Bowl come back for the Patriots where they hit both two point conversions. Not only that, they get a three and out from the Patriots with like two and a half minutes to go, and they get the ball back with plenty of time,
only needing three in the ball game. You're thinking, Wow, this is really gonna happen. And then they blow it.
They go three and out, punt it right back and Peyton I don't kill him for wanting to get the ball back the way the Patriots offense was playing at the point, but he's using his timeouts to try to get the ball back and he didn't know that a magical man named Bailey ZAPPI was gonna hit his fifth twenty plus yard play of the game, get an eighty nine PFF grade, the highest for a Patriots to go back in like three years, and hit Devonte Parker over one of the best quarterbacks in the league for the
second time, Patrick Sartan one on one. I mean, it is ridiculous things happening. And then Rylan hits the kick. It was totally proper Fostro's game. And I have to admit I did as a Patriots fan enjoy ending We're all but ending the Sun Peyton and Russell Wilsons.
Yeah, that that doesn't suck, and I it is easy to get sucked into draft pick mania and all that stuff. And you know, the same thing happening with my team against the Commanders on Sunday, where you know they probably should miss this field goal. It's probably better for in the long term interest of the franchise, but you know what, there is something to be said, especially with my team that's had a history of losing and young players that you do not want to get infected with the funk
of failure. You see Bailly Zappy celebrating on that sideline after the kick you see, and with my team guys like Sauce Gardner, Garrett Wilson, getting to enjoy a moment like that's important too, like to win football games and to not get kind of lost in the be a casualty of war that you've lost, so you know, And for the Patriots fans that are like kind of like my dad, who don't care about anything but about draft standing or this or that. Just I like to see
my team win. Well, you got a nice win on Christmas Eve. And speaking of the New York Jets, they are let's spin two week seventeen. They are on the road against the Cleveland Browns Thursday night football. Mark, you are no doubt educated on this. The Niners did not wait a second, Mark, Greg, wait a second? What's up? Angry cess dog? Christmas Night? The Ravens get beat. There is a pathway to the AFC North title for the Browns. Now, it's not really there. That's why you were so mad? Yes or no?
Well, like it's sort of like I said before, like because I have pet teams just like you know everyone else, and like the Niners are one of my pet teams, and like I.
Kind of just I'll talk about the Niners.
Not well, no, I mean it's it wasn't a Cleveland winning the division thing, because I I I would say, like, I like teams to be tiered where they belong, and like, like, if Cleveland were to win that division, they very likely are the number one seed in the AFC. And let's be realistic, like, I think they've been a fun team and we'll see where they land. But like the idea that the number one seed wouldn't I don't think would be a great thing for football in general.
I'm being really.
An insane answer.
Yeah, not an.
Insane answer, because they're a very incomplete team that's overachieving in a lot of ways. I mean, based on the injuries they've had, they're missing a lot of starters.
So like the number one seed, it would be the most amazing thing that has ever happened in the history of pro football. Come on, now, that'd be fun. Nobody would be upset about that it's not gonna happen.
But come on, it's it's not gonna happen.
But like I I kind of just I think I'm I like the storyline that they're actually living in, that they're inhabiting, which is a strange, injury riddled, over achieving team with a Coach of the Year candidate and an amazing story in Joe Flacco. Who you know the Jets? If anything, the Jets defenders know Joe Flacco as well
as any group of players in the league. And I think that presents an interesting challenge if the Jets show up to this game and they still care about their season, and I believe the defense does, Like I think that this uh, you know, one thing that happened to the Jets that I think makes a difference is for Woody Johnson to come out, whether you like it or not, Damn for Woody Johnson to come out and say the coaches are safe, everyone's staying, the GM's staying, like the
ship is not going to be blown up from the inside out, Like you're gonna get players, so like we're gonna play hard because we're still being looked at by the same people. Our careers aren't gonna be in flux the way they we thought they might. And like you have practiced against Joe Flacco seasons in a row, I think that matters, and I think it's like a huge chance for Cleveland to not basically drop a bomb on themselves because it's like, you you win this game and
you're just in the playoffs. They probably are already, but if you go and do it on Thursday night at home in a celebratory way, it puts a cherry on top of a very unusual, strange, the strangest Brown season that I can recall since like nineteen eighty eight, when like a forty something year old Don Strouck came in and like beat the Oilers in the final week of the season in a snowstorm to send the Browns into the playoffs.
Like it's that level of weird, and.
It's become enjoyable because, like, Joe Flacco is someone I never enjoyed in my life, and now I'm like, Joe Flacco is one of the most enjoyable football players the Browns have ever had because of what's occurred.
I think it's a good test though forget even knowing Joe Flacco, but just their offensive line, which you know, is certainly better against Houston than it was the week before, really injured. They're overcoming a lot having to go against this Jets defense. Like that's a real deal test. Now you can feel confident. I believe that you are not going to need that many points to win this game. If you're the Browns, you'd like to get a ground
game going. They're winning without any running game. But people have who have just been watching the highlights. I guess that does show it for Flacco, but I just can't believe how well he's playing. Like I like, maybe it's I'm not gonna say it's fluky because I don't know that it's going to continue, but the level that he's at just seems out is outrageous, Like he is playing like like Stafford or something like. It's just it's just
insane how well he's playing. Like he's playing way better than he played at the end of his Ravens career. It should almost go without saying. I mean, he is giving them a legit chance because you have an elite defense. You have the number eight team in DVOA overall because of that defense, largely an elite defense. In a quarterback, it's like you can make some noise.
The most recent Jets game will it's hard to decipher if you're looking to get any type of glean, any type of preview of how this game will turn out because for two quarters the Jets defense played at a level that would you know, bury Joe Flacco and many other quarterbacks, and then in the second half they let Jake Brisket go up and down the field on them. So while the Jets defense is on a ballance a very good year, they're not unstoppable. They're not They're not
gonna go to Cleveland and dominate. And I think a big part of that is something that has nothing to do with them, which is the offense is so bad. And Zach Wilson, who, by the way, we didn't really talk about it, but all that controversy around Wilson about you know, when it leaked out of the locker room that he wasn't sure he even wanted to play because he was worried about getting injured in an uncertain future.
Well what happened. He had that one good game and then the offensive line no shows on him two weeks ago and gets his head bashed in and he's been in concussion protocol since, so I actually I don't know if he's in the protocol, but he's still in it. So that's a sign that you're gonna get Trevor Siemion again who's terrible. So what that tells me Mark is that Cleveland's defense is going to put the clamps on the Jets running game priests. Hall is a really good
player who's had a great year considering the circumstance. But there's not gonna be a lot of room for him, I think. And what's gonna happen is that Brown's defense is going to put Flacco in a lot of positive game scripts. And I feel very good about this. In fact, what the hell? Why not I'm gonna lock up the Cleveland Browns on Thursday Night Football because I think it just sets up very well. Is it in the zone?
Wait?
Think so?
Is it not in the zone?
I'd have to check that. I think it's like seven and a half or something. Let me check. You could love it's like, I absolutely love this it is.
We could let Dan do that though.
It's out of the zone. Why would know we go? You gotta have a you gotta have a code.
Overtake you for the brown number one position? No, like, let him lock up the Browns?
Why like? Why?
Like?
Let let him have a Christmas gift?
It opened at six and a half. What are you talking about?
It is at seven. It is at seven, just saying you got you gotta played by rules, you know, play by rules.
Well that's fine. I mean, I Dan, I'm with you.
I think like you go see another pleasure movie.
Greg, Yeah, yeah, Greg?
Mean we look up against your team. I mean, look, if if this was lockable, I think we would all lock this way or not that's fair.
I mean it's like you just lean on, like what's the best position group on Thursday night? And it's like Cleveland Stefens. Couldn't you see like Miles Garrett having like a strip sack and then like you know they are a little banged up, but like I mean, I could just see them causing total chaos for Trevor Simeon and hopefully, you know, they don't blow it. Like if if you're a Browns fan, you finally maybe not just assuming everything
will go negatively. Like it's like it's a little different right now, and that's a very weird feeling.
It probably won't be like a great game, but it is kind of a nice moment and opportunity for a party here for the Browns. The way this lined up the last TNF game, who knows, maybe the last Almichael's Herb Street game period. You never know, I think, Yeah, I mean he's Undercoon the contract. I'm just saying, like hearing Herb Street on College makes me it's like, what are we doing here? So not into it. They just that they could clinch a playoff spot with Joe Flacco
in an Island game. That that's kind of fun. That is fun.
Indeed, what a what a great time? All right, anything else, We'll.
Be back on Thursday. Weird weird schedule.
Week rightday week.
Oh, I'll be with Nick Westling on this game. We're finishing that freecaps in style too. This will be a nice one.
Nick Westling on the mic for t n F recap with Gregy, So make sure you check that out. And yeah, because of the holiday and the wonkiness of everything, we will be off tomorrow Wednesday, and back Thursday with yet another preview of Games Week seventeen. All right, that was the Around the NFL podcast. Thank you everybody for listening, and do what you know that you need to do that Cop