Here. It is from the field, pressure, coming Party, Hit Party, shocks game over, Christian rose Boom clinches it. The Rams have a three game winning streak and they sleep San Francisco twelve six to final.
That's how you close a game, not just by Christian rose Boom, but by our friend JB. Long on KSPN. Yes, the Rams win a game in the division without scoring a touchdown twelve to six, a massive result for their playoff hopes, basically eliminating their rival forty nine ers in a rainy night in Santa Clara. It's dry here in Los Angeles, and I've got my friend Andrew Siciliano with me. Andrew the preseason voice on television of the La Rams, so he's an expert, and I liked how they ended there.
You send some pressure on a hail Mary. Don't even let Rock Party throw that ball. Although I was kind of wondering if Rock Purty could even reach in the rain. We'll never find.
Out, Rosenthal. I'm touched, I am flattered. I am honored to be back on this pod, longtime listener, first time in this current format on the pod, and I think first time back maybe in the NFL media group since the start of Week one. I am honored to be here.
We miss you, buddy, But look, Andrew one of the best people in the business, and he's been busy, not you know, since the Olympics. He's of course now the voice of the Browns. He's got his YouTube channel, check out Andrew Ciciliano. He's got Thinking out Loud on the channel, he's got the Bark Tank podcast. But we're here to talk a little Rams forty nine Ers. And you've watched this division as closely as any because of your connection to the Rams. A different sort of NFC West game,
a defensive struggle. But I do think in the second half we kind of saw the reason why these two teams are going in separate directions. When they absolutely needed to, the Rams did figure out how to move the ball even if they were settling for field goals, and when they needed to, they got enough pressure on Purty. That's kind of been the story of the Rams season, efficient long drives when they've needed to in the second half of games, and the forty nine Ers really collapsed down
the stretch. So it says twelve to six, but I did feel like it was a just result and the Rams really really help out their playoff chances.
And crazy thing is these teams combined for eighty two points in their respective games on Sunday against the Bills and against the Bears. But here this is the only game all season according to our buddy Tony in research, that did not include a touchdown from either team. So twelve to six is a thrilling what I had? I wow? Yeah, how about that? The only game without a touchdown. It's also the first.
Game that a team that forty nine Ers team who didn't give up a touch in the house lost since two thousand and seven. There are not many games like this.
I think the fourth quarter of those last two drives and even the delayed blitz there on the Hail Mary, which is something we saw from the Browns actually against Russell Wilson to the Steelers on TNF that game week twelve back in Cleveland. Jordan Hicks came delayed pressure and drilled Russell Wilson on that final George Pickens, Greg knew some ted to ted in the back of the end zone.
The Rams were the more physical team when they needed to down the stretch, and those two long drives and that sack that proved a point, and I think there is. I don't want to say it's an official changing of the guard in the division because the Rams have won a Super Bowl here. But the thing about the Niners forever kind of having Sean mcvay's number, Kyle kind of having Shawn's number, especially when the game was up there,
is that the Niners were the more physical team. With Trent Williams, with Debo, with Boso, with whoever else they had on the offensive line and the defensive line for that matter, they were the more physical team and they punched the Rams in the mouth. This was a bit of a reversal, Don't get me wrong. They didn't blow them out of the bill And if a hail Mary gets to the end zone maybor having a different conversation.
But the Rams have now beaten Sean McVay has now beaten Kyle Shanahan three in a row, the first time the Rams have done that since anybody.
Don't I mean it was in Saint Louis, I would guess.
Yeah, it was. It was the greatest Sean Turf, Kurt Marshall, Tory, Isaac Orlando. It was that team from ninety nine to one. They beat the Niners six in a row, and now they've beaten them three in a row. So I think this was a message sent here as well. And it doesn't matter now what the Rams do against the Jets next week in New York. Honestly, it doesn't matter. If they win the last two against the Cardinals and Seahawks, they're in.
Oh that's a good point. I was like, well, it matters a little. What if the Seahawks went out, No, you're right, the division games are all there, really massing.
Then they'll be five and one in the division and.
The Seahawks have tough games the next two week against the Packers and the Vikings. If I'm a Seahawks fan, and I kind of am, but I'm also kind of a Rams fan, it's kind of confusing here. This was the first game I got to watch at home and watch my daughter and my wife go nuts with the clapping in the second half of this game, very intense. They will likely be playing for the division in week eighteen.
That's basically what this game all but guaranteed. Because Seattle, like I said, was saying like, if you're a fanta Seattle, you hope to if you got one of those next two games against the Packers and the Vikings. You'd take that like those are two really good teams and most likely Seattle will have a chance to win the division that night and LA will have a chance to win the division that night, and it very well could be the Sunday night football game and the season, which would
be fantastic. And this three game winning streak comes after the forty nine Ers beat the Rams in the regular season nine straight times, which is outrageous and deserves a massive asterich that the Rams won the most important game these two teams have ever played in this current McVeigh Shanahan iteration in the NFC Championship, but I thought they were more physical. Kyron Williams, to me, gets the game ball twenty nine carries one hundred and eight yards some
outstanding blitz pickups. There was that seventeen play drive where they blew it with a holding call on a zone read by Matthew Stafford and they settle for the field goal. But that helped set the tone in the second half after they couldn't do anything in the first half, punting five times and Kyron just kept getting extra yards. I kept thinking, oh, that should have been two. It was five. Oh, that should have been four. It was seven, that should
have been six, It was eleven. He's just carrying guys and he is such a tough runner. They want to play Blake corm He's running well, But I think Kyrin Williams is just too good. They can't get him off the field. And that was the difference to me on a night where you know, the forty nine ers are down to their third running back and just couldn't get anything going consistently on offense.
And know this too about really any coach, for Sean McVay in particular, if you're a rookie running back, pass pro is the most important thing. And it's not that Sean and full disclosure, I have not been with the Rams since August right, still talk to people there, obviously, But Sean's not going to put a rookie running back on the field unless he absolutely believes in him in
pass pro, and I think he does. But when you see what Kyrin Williams does, and you know that his past pro game isn't just good, it can be elite, and you're going to keep him. You're going to keep him on the field. And it also I think you want to talk big picture here, go back to the toughness thing. Really the last two draft classes that Less
Snead has put together. Think of all the guys that contributed tonight defensively Jared Versu and Braden Fisk and Byron Young and Kobe Turner and Cam Kitchens, and then offensively poo to Kua and even a guy like Bowl Limmer. Yeah at center Kyroen's in his third year.
A was out there and in the game. To Houko is like half the battle and that that's all about Adule.
I can't believe I forgot Avula and mentioned bow Limmer, the rookie center from Arkansas. But you get My point is that these are not only just guys that are out there playing, they are key foundational building blocks that help you win this game, especially on the defensive side.
Yeah. So Kobe Turner, they had a great stat on the broadcast from next in Stats that he had four pressures in the first half. On every one of those four he was double team. I started counting the drives that he ended. There was one with a sack, there was one with a run stuff, there was one with a pressure where he got right in Perty's face and helped force an incompletion, and then in the second half he killed another one with a sack. Even on the
the interception that we're gonna list into. In about ten seconds, Kobe Turner gets the pressure right in his face. Bradon Fisk was there too. Turner ends up with five pressures on the night, two sacks, but Verse and Fist both had three pressures too, So you're right, it's all about those young guys. Let's listen to our friend JB again.
Two to snap it for Perty, he does, beat the clock back to pass drifting two is right, launches down the right numbers.
This ball's in the air.
This both picked. Then a cheft it up to go line. Darius Williams goes to get it right in front of Juwan Jennings and La has the first takeaway on Thursday Night Football.
JMI is so good at what he does.
By the way, he's so good. He's the best. You two are are my favorites to listen to every Sunday.
Here's too kind.
Dan Miller's great. I put him on.
Dan Miller at the Lions is amazing but fun. Fun fact. When I was an intern at sports Radio five seventy, not nine eighty. Then it was five seventy wt EM back in Washington, Dan Miller was the what you say right, Redskins beat reporter back then and Miller believe it or not. And Steve Colby, who is the board op was later the voice of the Capitols. That's a whole nother book to be written.
It's you know, it's it's the place where legends are born back there. I don't know that play. That interception came with five fourteen left. It was a nine to six game. The forty nine ers. Yeah, they watched how the field and it was fantastic. Can I go back real quick? Put a button on that?
Brandon Fisk and Jared verse thy so because I have Browns Chiefs this week obviously, so doing my research this afternoon for that one. Chris Jones Miles Garrett two great defensive pieces here. Clearly, Miles Garrett is now half a sack away from one hundred. His twenty ninth birthday is going to be I think it's December twenty ninth, so he'd be like the first guy with one hundred before
he turns twenty nine, something like that. Anyway, here's the list most pressures, most quarterback pressures this season, and this was before tonight game. Trey Hendrickson number one, sixty five, Jonathan Grenard number two sixty, Chris Jones number three, fifty nine, tied with Chris Jones, rookie Jared Verse with fifty nine, and then Miles Garrett fifty eight. That's your top.
Five and you saw it tonight, like that one pressure he had that helped kill a drive. It's not always about getting the sacker getting the quarterback hit, especially when they're working well as a team, and you saw it. You said on the last play, they all work really well as a group, and the whole idea that him and Fisk would work well as a tandem, so maybe let's draft them together. It's working like they play literal games all the time together and it's really effective and
it's helped the Rams win different sorts of ways. It's not a great defense every single week, but some weeks the pass rush has carried them, and that's something that you weren't expecting going into the season.
No, not at all. And conversely, there have been plenty of games this year with the secondaries let them down, and you know, starting with Tradevius White now he's in Baltimore. You go back and you watch when these two teams first met Rams Niners earlier the year to Revius White
was obviously on the field. Rams still have I think an issue at corner that they have to address, but you go out, you get Cam curl Camp Kitchens started slowly but has certainly come on and had his moments this year as well, another guy I had mentioned before in this year's draft class. Their defense overall, their numbers aren't good, but they've been good enough in the moments they need them to make a run like they did
last year. What seven and one, it's seven to two after the buye, whatever it is.
Oh.
I can count four games this year where their defense kind of carried them for most of the game and just waited for the offense to do something. The Raiders game, that the Saints game, this game, and having a handful of those games, its just not something that happened in previous iterations. And they needed to because the first half of this game was a disaster. It was raining buckets. But even before it was Stafford nearly threw an interception
on I think it was his first throw. Is certainly the first drive they go for they go.
Stafford huch off three times in the first quarter.
Right, so they got lucky. In the first half, Stafford goes four for twelve for thirty three yards. The first quarter was the first time in Sean mcvay's era. I was listening to JB on the call that they didn't have a first down, like they punted four three times. So again it was the defense keeping them in it and waiting. But the second half, unlike the forty nine ers, Stafford gets it, going twelve for fifteen for one to
twenty seven. Makes all the right decisions. They were aggressive on that final drive, throwing the ball to pick up the first downs. They needed a great four minute drive which got them a field goal and basically gave the
forty nine ers any time. And on the flip side, Purdy was kind of a mess the whole game and giving you a little bit of flashbacks so that Packers game last year where he struck in the rain and he said it affected him, and it felt like it affected him tonight and he wasn't any better in the second half. He missed, not just on the interception, which to me was more of a bad decision, but he just missed throws and you wonder if it was the moisture or what it was. But it's kind of continued
a very up and down season. Perty's had incredible games. I thought he played amazing last week, and then he has a night like tonight and he's had a few too many of those.
You wonder as well, if Deebo hadn't dropped that ball slant in the first half, you know, Perdy put it on him. Does that change the momentum? Does that change party? I don't think one play necessarily makes you a more accurate quarterback in the second half. If all of a sudden so one catches the ball in the first half, of these things spiral out of control. Rosenthal, I'm looking down here because I'm looking at my Niners Twitter. We
have a developing situation in Santa Clara Josh's side. Kyle Shanahan says DeAndre Campbell refused to go in the game when asked in the third quarter and says he doesn't want to talk about it anymore. I got my TV on up here, I got the Prime post came on right now. They have images of Devondre Campbell walking to the locker room during the game with a towel over his head. I was making dinner. I might have missed that, but Kyle says he refused to go in the game.
We'll deal with it later. Javaria Scorn asked about it. He said, he's probably getting cut.
Yeah, no kidding. I was going to say, well, this is a rare case. While it's happening live, I can tell you how it ends. He's either he's not going to take another snap for the forty nine ers. Ever, again, he wasn't playing well when he was on the field anyways this season, and he will either be suspended or cut, but he's not going to hit the field.
The reason why j Johnson kind of thing. They suspended him in Baltimore.
Right, but they I don't know if they're going to cut him. Campbell's towards the end of his career. This is the end of the season, and the reason he was being asked to go on the field, I would guess is because Drake Greenlow could not make it through this game. And to me that was so important not just to this game, but so symbolic of their season, heart and soul, this defense, and they look different with him on the field. Man Kyron Williams, you don't see
him get pushed back too often. He's such a tough runner. Greenlaw hit him backwards a few times. He had eight tackles in the first half of that game. He made a big difference. Suddenly you saw the vision him and Mustafa and Hufungos who's now healthy, and Warner like, that's a group that hits, that is tough, that's coming downhill. And when he wasn't in the game in the second half, and I don't think he played a snap after halftime. We're still waiting word what happened there. They just weren't
the same defense. So that is a big, big part of the forty nine Ers story this season, even though it's a bit of the Super Bowl hangover and perty the discussion is going to continue, like they have just been ravaged with injuries, and every time they feel like they get a good bit of news like McCaffrey or Greenlaw comes back, then he gets hurt again. So I thought that was a big moment in this game.
The quote from Kyle he said he didn't want to play today about Devondre Campbell. Okay, so they got to figure out that out. The pretty thing to me is fascinating because listen, we know his contract is a thing this offseason. I am on team Brock party. I'm not going to let you know an up and down season in which you don't have Trent Williams for extended periods of time, in which you have Christian McCaffrey for a month, and he wasn't the Christian McCaffrey that he was a
year ago, not even close. With all the other injuries on the defensive side that affects you on the offensive side, I'm not going to take this season and say this is who he is. I've seen greatness from the guy, but you know that come March, the conversation is going to be is brock Purty still the guy? And at what price? And oh my god, do we pay him forty five forty eight? Do we pay him fifty? What do we pay do we give him two of money?
Do we go beneath that? Well, we want to bring him back, but we don't think he's worth the elite money. The price is what the price is for the quarterback period, full stop. So you know, I kind of feel bad for him because now he's going to get caught up in the conversation that I don't know that this year's necessarily his fault.
No, but it can show some of the limitations. I guess I would just say, does every quarterback have to become the highest paid quarterback in the No?
No, I'm with it. I'm with you on that. I'm totally with you on that. But then where do you put him?
Right? Like, it'll be close enough. The differences aren't going to be that much. Now if I'm brock party, do you consider a shorter term deal that's a little lower on a per year basis. It's life changing money for a seventh round pick, like it would be for anyone, but especially for a seventh round pick. I don't get why we're at this point that every single player has
to get Mahomes money. Couldn't he slot somewhere between a Geno Smith contract and like a Burrow contract, Like it's it's somewhere halfway way in between where it's not it's it's not at the Burrow sphere, but it's like five million dollars below, it's above. It's above the Gino and Derek Cartier and it's above. Everyone goes on their way.
Use Baker as the baseline, add whatever percent you want and and then be happy with the deal. But if I'm his reps, yeah.
They just don't want well, I mean, I'm gonna want more.
I'm not gonna want borrow money. I'm not gonna want golf money, but I'm gonna want good money. You know what's gonna happen here. Let's start this now, so the Niners face plant down the stretch, the Vikings win at least a playoff game. Yeah, you're gonna have some Niner fans saying, bring back Sam Darnold. He showed that he now is better than Brock Purty. Bring back Sam Darnold.
Well, good luck getting him. You know, I think the Vikings aren't gonna let him go. I think they'll franchise tag. I've just started to think about that this week. But they have all the cap room in the world, and I'm thinking, no, I'll just give him the franchise tag, pay him forty five million whatever it is next year. That seems crazy, but they can fit it very easily, and then just see how JJ McCarthy looks and have him come back. But you're right, that will be the conversation.
I don't think the forty nine ers will let it get that far because I think you would think they would learn something from what happened with Ayuk and Trent Williams this year, but especially Ayuk, where I thought that poisoned the entire season, the way that they went through training camp. It was incredibly bad vibes. I think Deebo Samuel you mentioned the drop. It was a rough game. I mean he got booed from the whole the home crowd. They targeted him seven times andrew sixteen yards. They ran
him twice for three yeards. I actually think his rushing totals, where he's averaging way under three yards per carry this year and they keep trying to give it to is a very significant indicator that he's just not the same player, or how they use him doesn't work like it used to. It's a combination of both. Doesn't miss tackles and I was thinking, man, this is a bummer, but this is
how it happens. He probably has one game left in his forty nine ers career at home, and it's sad to see him getting booed like in his second to last game there.
Yeah, I think he said this week as well. And maybe I imagine this, but I'm pretty sure I saw it where he said about using him in the run game. It's not like a secret anymore. Yeah, Like if they're going to put me in the backfield, big deal. Like, I mean, okay, I'm a running back on this play. It's not like it's some subterfuge where they put him in the backfield and people start losing.
But he's one of the least effective running backs in the league. That the thing is, like, you can be much better off with Patrick Taylor out there, or obviously Isaac Garande, who by the way, I think they got something there. He looks pretty good.
Yeah, the guy can run, I mean, just as fast as it gets And Patrick Taylor. You ever go back and look at that Memphis team, all the guys they had on that Mat fifteen.
No, I didn't. I didn't even know Patrick Taylor went to Memphis.
So here you want, this might be like the greatest I should know this.
It's going to Tulane's biggest rivals, always a problem for Tulane.
So at one point Memphis had Antonio Gibson, Darryl Henderson, Patrick Taylor. Okay, Kenneth gain Well and one other guy I can't remember. Hold on Darryl Henderson and Tony Pollard. Oh, I knew there was someone way and Calvin Austin Man. They were all on the same twenty eighteen Memphis team.
They know where to find them. And yeah Taylor was in there. But if you started Grendo in fantasy, a lot of people were on the borderline this week, like he didn't do great, but he got just seventy five yards. Pookinakua, by the way, like even on a night where he had nothing in the first half, breaks open for a plus fifty yard or the forty nine ers actually are the best in the entire NFL at preventing plus twenty catches. They hadn't in weeks, so it is hard to get
behind that defense. Puka is just on another level. Even in a night like this where they could not throw the ball at all, he goes seven for ninety seven. Cooper Cup did not have a catch, which is absolutely wild, But that that shows you who's the one, who's the two The Rams, as you mentioned, they have the Jets, the Cardinals, and the Seahawks down the stretch. The next Gen Stats has them as fifty to fifty to make
the playoffs. I feel like it's a little more because it just to me feels like, well, if they if they win eight week eighteen, they're in. And I give them a better than fifty percent chance of doing that because it's at home. But the Seahawks will have something to say about it. We thought this was going to be a four team race. It really now looks like a two team race. And a sweet victory for Rams and their coach and Sean McVay.
The Jets game, the Rams now get the extra time. Who knows what the Jets going to look like in two weeks, three days before Christmas and and Week seventeen is a flex game that very well could be a Saturday one of the NFL Network triubleheader games, and then Sunday could be flexed Week eighteen to Sunday night, so you could have two.
They're going to be in. They're going to be in the mix here down the stretch, and you will as well. Now one of the reasons you're on tonight was we thought we'd get you for a Rams I mean a Browns post TNF game where you're doing the game and you would have been trying to do double duty and do NFL Daily afterwards, but they actually flex the Browns out as Brown's Bengals, and now it's next week it's
Broncos Chargers. So I feel like this is a little treat that I got to spend a little time virtually with my friend Andrew, and we get you those great pipes and your great knowledge on NFL Daily. Appreciate you, Andrew.
Hey man, I've had a blast. As I said at the top, honored and flattered that you invited me. We could have done after the Browns and Steelers in the snow because I'd wait for like an hour to get out of there. The snow was so bad and the traffic was so bad. I had all the time in the world.
Yeah, that was a sneaky classic. I've enjoyed watching the Browns this year after Deshaun Watson was gone. They've they've been pretty entertaining, so hopefully they keep it. Maybe maybe they can have their Super Bowl moment this Sunday against the Chiefs. I hope for your sake, I should have waited this song in the show to mention we're not just talking T and F on this program. Our friend Ali Connolly, who's been on NFL Daily multiple times, just
happened to basically break the Bill Belichick story. And I'm such a fan of Ali's and have been obviously a fan and a close watcher at Belichick and the whole story is fascinating to me. So we're gonna throw it after the break to a conversation with myself and Ali Connolly. He's going to talk about kind of what went into the decision, what's next for the Belichick clan. We'll talk about how we think it'll all work. We'll do that
again after the break. Thank you, Andrew Well. It will be the first time, it will not be the last. Looking forward to having you again back in the All right, welcoming into the program. We could not escape this week before talking to our friend Ollie Connolly of the read Optional substack. If if you weren't subscribed already, like you, got to check out his piece on Bill Belichick joining UNC earlier this week. Ali, I mean, I'm just looking at Twitter, looking at Blue Sky, and I'm hearing, oh,
did you did you see this Belichick news? I was like, no, what is it? And I look at and the news is from Ollie Connolly, our friend who was on NFL Daily within the first couple of weeks of us launching, and we did a very you know scene podcast about Kirk Cousins. We'll get to that later, and then was with us on one of my favorite episodes of the year.
The London Recap actually brought broke the news that Bill Belichick was looking hard at this UNC job and was the first to report it, Like, how the hell did this happen? Ali, And are you enjoying your victory.
Lab enjoying a victory lop? I guess not. It's a weird one. I'm not usually in the news breaking game. I think people saw me do that. They're like, wait a second, is he just like making a joke? He must be this the wid scheme guy no one knows in some attic in Manchester. I don't think this could be true. Is this Cousins? Is this a journalist? Who is this person? So? Yeah, a bit peculiar but interesting nonetheless, Yeah.
So kind of to back it up, maybe some people were confused too, because the whole situation was confusing. There was no way for you to escape that. When you first reported that Belichick was taking the job, Essentially the
job didn't exist. It was essentially that it was, in your words, accepting a job that he was proposing that the UNC would have to do all these things upgrades and investments and jobs, not just his job, but a general manager, which we've now found out is going to be Michael Lombardi and all of this, this four hundred page organizational bible essentially that he gave to them, like how did this come to you? Or whatever you're comfortable saying,
or just like how did this come about? In reality, less about you and more just about like how did this happen?
Yeah, I think that Look, the NFL situations were closed off that he had from why I understand one conversation with one team who had a current coach. None of the teams with vacancies were interested. The conversation did not go well, probably worse than the conversations went last year when he had obviously one interview, as everyone knows, and didn't make the finalists top three finalists for the Falcons job.
And I think it was pretty clear the NFL was unlikely to be an optional at least in the way he would want it to be, and obviously control as a huge element for him and not his control, but who he can actually staff a building with in every department, not just on the coaching staff. And that the thing that has jumped out to me throughout all of this, and the reason why I kind of went with it early compared to everyone else is they've been looking at
college gigs for like a year. This was not like this one popped up and I wrote a too long story. Today people can go and read. It's eight thousand words. It gets into every single detail of what's happened over a season. They were doing background research on how things went wrong for Bill Walsh when he returned to college as an NFL legend out of the game for three seasons, had three Super Bowls, went back to Stamford, and it
went pretty miserably for Bill Walsh. They were looking into what went wrong there with a legend term media personality, turn college football coach, and it got my antenna up of Oh, it's interesting, you guys are all reading this book.
I want to read that book now too. It's called Rough Magic. It's by Lowell Cone. Who oh, look he's holding it up. We're such dorks. Because I actually I thought like, this is a good time to kind of just talk a little, you know, football dork book Like behind me, if you're watching on YouTube, you can see my little football library that my wife made me put out into the garage. I don't know if these books are going to get ruin, but yeah, I got some
favorites here too. There's like that book The Genius about Bill Walsh, which by David Harris, which kind of was sad and made me think he didn't really enjoy being Bill Walsh. Totally. One thing I got from your article and again read optional everyone subscribed, Like I don't ask for much. You know, we have advertising stuff, but support good football writing and great football podcasting. I've been checking out all these podcasts with John Ledyard for a while
and it's really worth it. But the written article that you mentioned today is fascinating and it got me sort of thinking we'll get back to like the NFL not wanting him, but what does Bill Belichick really want in life? It's why I took the UNC stuff seriously just from seeing it. Obviously that it was from you, but there were other people too, cause it made sense like Bill Belichick's not enjoying being in the media, Like what is
going to make him happy in life. If it's going to be coaching, and if the NFL is not giving him a job or he's unsure, if he could possibly get a job, then I'll coach where I can coach. And like that group that you're talking about around him, that's maybe reading the book, like is it safe to say it's like the same? It's the same. It's like it's the.
Same cast of characters that everyone could reel off their hands, including miss still Embodi, who was named general manager within twenty minutes of Build.
Well and you reported too on that Stephen Belichick's involvement is part of the whole deal at you.
And see Yeah, and a conversation going in of I would like this in writing that he would be head coaching waiting some kind of guarantee. I think that was a real big like whoa, that's not really what we're interested in. But as you were saying before, he went in and just shopped for the moon, if I'm going to do this, we need to be competitive. We need to go from being an academic institution with a famous
basketball team to being a football school. It's a football program, it's a football factory that I control and that just happens to be tied to a school that was the plan, that was the pit. This is what you need. Resources, staffing, two separate staffs, right, a recruiting staff. That is not for me. I'm good, Michael, and someone else will control that for me. There'll be the conduit. I'll sign things off, I'll watch some tape, I'll close the deals like Deon
does at Colorado, and I'll run the football side. I'll bring all my friends and we'll get the NFL guys. I'll get some guys I know from college, and I'll run the football department and be just the CEO of the program. And I think, to your point about what did he want? That's the real difference in Diacosmic between Walsh. That's why the book is so fascinating. Why it's so interesting that they were reading this a year ago, is Walsh went back into school to kind of prove something
to himself about his offensive system. Thought he missed coaching, thought he missed the whistle and the grass and being around the players. But it was really internally about Bill Walsh in his struggle with like losing a grip on being the coach, like the personality of genius coach man, whereas Bill Belichick realized, I just missed the actual coaching, the technique of it, actually having the whistle, being involved with people, data, being with my son in the film
room and breaking down things. We don't spend a lot of time together. My grandkids are all over the place, ozol being in one hub. I'm not going to get that in Jacksonville. I'm not going to get that in Dallas. I can get it in Carolina, and I'll do it if they acquiesce to ten thousand things. I need to make it competitive so I don't embarrass myself and spoil my legacy at the end here and they agree twittle.
Right, he's competitive, and so I think he wrote great, great about it. It's multiple things can be true that it's the joy of it. He's getting towards the end of the life. Hell, I'm in my mid forties. I think about the end of life and like what matters and finding my joy and everything like on an hourly basis.
I'm sure Bill Belichick does as well. And so having that opportunity to just like coach with his son like that to me and just coaching in general probably is the biggest job, but like he also knows about legacy, he doesn't want his last game coaching. And I had to check this out be a seventeen to three loft of the Jets. It is sad like coachings always end poorly, like Vince Lombardi more or less died on the job for coaching a mediocre Washington team, which is you know,
about as sad as it gets. Like that didn't ruin his legacy, no one, no one really cares, No one really remembers that Bill what Bill Belichick. That is not going to change. But I did have to go check that their last game. I mean, it can't get lower than this ended the Patriots fifteen game winning streak over the Jets, and it was to the Trevor Simeon led Jets, which it was zappy zammy going twelve for thirty.
And it was in the snow, if your remember, and snow was like clustering on his face and it was just like the most said, depressing. And the legacy thing to me is interesting because people are bending around this idea of the winds record, right like always gonna come back to the wins record. In what world did anyone even care about the wins record. Frankly before, like three four years ago, was that even a brow up eva in the case of his Don Shoele better than Bill Belichick. No,
we go by Lombardi's mostly all innovation, right. I was asking people about that midway through, being like, is this really going to swing a decision, Like, surely if someone just came to him with the same offer of you run a franchise, he take the NFL. The answer is yes, that was not going to happen in this go around, and he did not want to be left at the altar. It publicly embarrassed again that he was left out of a hiring cycle, So we jumped at the first opportunity
that was there that would meet his demands. The boat that he has is called eight rings, it's not called three hundred and thirty three wins. He does not care about the wins record. He cares about the championships. That's what drives him. And then the coaching day to day aspect I think is really really critical that being able to be on the field every day teaching technique the things that he really enjoys, and doing it with a group of coaches who are essentially family at this point.
That's why they all hang around with him all the time. We may think that some of them are laughable or funny, when they go to the places, they're really meaningful to him. And so to be able to get them all back together again coaching, I think is the reason why he's doing this.
Yeah, Matt Patricia outside of the Patriots ecosystem probably worthy of your laughs. But he worked inside. He worked inside the Patriots ecosystem. Lombardi, that's a bit of a red flag.
Always was. I always was like, huh, Like when you'd see them at the combine and they're at Shula's ironically they now closed bar and steak place, and it's it's just Belichick and Lombardi, or it's like Belichick, Lombardi and one other coach or whatever, and you're like, he really likes this guy, Like this is really the guy he wants to bounce off of. And so I think there is a concern that, Okay, it makes sense he wants
to silo. I don't want to deal with the money part of it, and IL like, I think Bill Barty has gotta do it. But man, I'm a little concerned that Lombardi's in charge of all that.
I think the misunderstanding of the Lombardi thing is from what I understand, is that is very much as a buffer for all the college bullsh you have to deal with. When does the boost to club meeting and Bill's supposed to go, and people be disappointed because Bill doesn't want to go do the boost to club meeting. He wants to be watching film of Wake Forest or Richmond, I guess, because that's who they have to play next. He'son, not the Bengals, not the Cowboys. He's gonna of play Richmond
next season. That's actually a thing that's happening with Bill Belichick.
He's going to be playing against the two lane excellent red shirt freshman Darien Mensa, who was ESPN's number one guy in the portal. He left us and he's now at Duke. So the big Darien Mensa versus Belichi game, it like blows my mind.
Sorry, but Lombardy is nothing if not smooth and comfortable in like c sweet situations, and so I think as sending him along as kind of like the chaperone of a face of the program behind the scenes is the filter t Bill helps them deal with all the shenaniguns people like Bill Belichie doesn't want to go and do those things. He doesn't want to go to the luncheon. Well, you said, Michael Lombardi, who can glad hand and smile and is charismatic with these people, and that limits some
of the impact. I know you can roll your eyes, and I agree with you, But in those circles. You know this too, that he can at least operate in those situations.
For No, that's an important skill. I always thought one of Mike Tannenbaum's best skill. And I like Mike tannanbamb He's obviously extremely intelligent, but one of his best skills is like he's good at talking to owners. Someone needs to be able to do that, and Lombardy can maybe fulfill that service kind of be a high level almost assistant on some level, like a personal assistant, but on a more like business you know, football, Like do you
think Bill Belichick will be a good college coach? Let's just like take out the nil and recruiting and everything else, like brass tax, He's gonna be game planning for these teams. Like what do you think that looks like?
Yeah, he's gonna be gamed against Darbo Sweeney and Mario Cristobal. I feel pretty confident that Bill Belichick will be okay. Frankly, I think any notion that he's not is pretty silly.
I do think there's an interesting thing going on in college sports schematically at the football level, where the college game was more advanced than the NFL defensively four, five, six years ago, because you could just have so many people on campus for so long to sustained amount of time that guys like could be smart and Nick Saban have more complex systems than people in the NFL, where you're bringing a street free agent to play come back for one week, and you're not able to install systems
year after year after year, where they have a lot of reading on the fly complex things as now every season has just build a team year by year, bring this transfer and bring that transfer in. I do think that it's going to become less complex, and that, to me is the thing I'm looking forward to seeing is
how complex does Bill Belichick want to be? That was the thing Bill Wolsh running two, did not want to change what he thought was the perfect football system for the college level, But then He's also the most adaptable coach we've ever seen. That's the greatness. The greatness is
not one great scheme, one great innovation. It's knowing how to tailor the scheme to the players he has available, and how to teach basically everything in football on all sides of the ball, special teams, offense, defense, And so I think if you give this guy a chance to be adaptable week to week defensively against what college has to offer, that I honestly think he'd run circles around them defensively.
Yeah, I tend to agree because that never left it. And you made that point too in the article, like they were eighth and EPA for play allowed last year the Patriots, but they actually improved after it came out of that. Belichick was essentially gonna get fired. But that does leave the offensive side, like as jet like we haven't heard any reporting like is it gonna be Joshua McDaniels there. I would feel better about that than like, you know, we're sending Matt Patricia back over to the
offensive side. It's like, you know, he so he didn't have like a magic wand that was gonna be able to fix what was going on on the Patriots offensive side the last couple of years.
No, but I think that I would be really surprised if there were not at least a bunch of little minnoni hot shot r PO kings rolling around them with friends with Steven or have got a recommendation from Jed Fish or Nick Saban and guys who can at least put inpatim. I have no idea what it's gonna look like. Will he try and do the Herm Edwards things where it's like, actually an NFL team in college football that becomes a disaster and everyone gets in legal trouble, Like
that's plausible, this is Bill Belichick. But I would think the just be wanting to win will override the rest of it.
Yeah, I'm like excited to see it. And he's so he's so cognizant of football history, But I don't. I don't think like he's going to be like a prisoner
to that, Like he grew up on college campus. So another book I have here, you know, sitting here is The Old Football Scouting Methods by Steve Belichick, which you know he wrote at the US Naval Academy and famously got to stay there forever and never never tried to become the head coach in a way because he thought it was more stable and he had a better family life.
And you know, that's basically where Belichick grew up as a kid and as a coach on some level, because he was essentially a coach as a fourteen year old hanging out with his dad. And now he can kind of return the favor. I'm I'm optimistic as a Belichick Belichickian, like I've gotten used to this already. It makes sense to me that the NFL ultimately wasn't that interested, which, like Art, do you think like teams are making a mistake by not wanting Belichick at the NFL level?
I think I don't they're making a mistake if it was that you're we're going to hand a seventy three year old at the start of the next season our entire operation from the nutrition staff to the analytics department for what three four five seasons that I completely understand. That team just don't operate that way anymore. They're really siloed. They bring coaches in, and now the coaching staffs are
so transient. Some quarterback coach goes here, some guy comes over here you get an assistant head coach the following season, right, So I get that as just the coach. It is still my numbing to me and just jaw dropping that eleven months ago, we as a collective public, I think, Greg, you're probably doing this too, right. We're discussing maybe acting Nick Siriani to slide in Bill Belichick and just looking
at different circumstances of competitive playoff teams. Would they be better off letting go of their good to average to maybe very good coach in place of Bill Belichick? And eleven months later he's going to a middle class second to college football program.
Yeah, middle class is generous. I mean it's in an upper class relatively, you know conference, but it's at the bottom of it the ACC, which which is an opportunity for him, you know, kind of you wanted the old parcels'sm You want to take over the team when they're at the bottom. You're right. That Eagles example, though, that was maybe the one because there was reporting by Seth Wickersham that he was telling the Falcons that he didn't
need to take over all the operations. But if you're the GM there, you know, there's just no way you buy that.
There's no way you'd buy he has a thirty year trek record.
It's and it's and I think like the one of the least admirable things you know, throughout this season if you want to get on Belichick or certainly a bought Lombardi's like they were hammering the Falcons, the Jets and the Patriots in their media appearances. Especially Lombardi. He had a little pet name like calling their GM and name like over and it's like, okay, you're obviously just like kind of I know.
And it's not like they hired a dundehead and at London they got Rahie Morris. Right, this is a good hya, this is a great coach. They know he's an excellent coach. Whether it works or not long term, they signed a quarterback. Maybe they should not have done like the You can definitely quibble with the GM and whether he should have got full power or just coach power, But to take shots at them because you didn't get a coach job when a very qualified, good coach got the job is a bit struck, right.
Which is why I'm actually I'm glad he's going back to coaching because if he was going to do the media, like do it give us some real takes, But really it's felt like settling scores and being as vague as possible while he was doing his real job, which was making this four hundred page bible and looking for another job. I mean, it is amazing how he could pull off having eight different media jobs at the same time. What do you think this manual was?
Like?
Are we ever going to see this manual?
Well? I know it's so frustrating. As I was told I could release portions of it if he didn't get the job. Then he got the job. That was a killer. That was a kill and people really got carried away with that. There was you know, justice for Colli stallions. When he does it, it's a bible. When a white job does it, it's a manifesto. I get all that, this is not an unusual thing. I get white Court fire because it's Belichick. It's like, wow, what could possibly
be in that? Like that's the the thing you're holding the book there. What Belichick has been writing for two years, including in the final Patriots season, is his own version of the Winning Edge. That's what he's been working on.
Bill Wilsch has this famous book Finding the Winning Edge that every football guy has in their library and speaks as like the Holy Bible, and you know, not exactly a quick read for the average fan, but it is interesting. It's basically how to build an organization and how to coach from the ground up. And so I always thought it would be interesting to see like an updated version of that, and this would be that.
Yeah, and he had a college one written and a NFL one written. The reason why I report that at the time that I thought was interesting is he tailor made the college one for Carolina, right, So it's an examination of the depth chart, it's transfer targets, it's why would this man go through this trouble? Why there was graphics in his presentation? Can you imagine Bill Belichick sat
at a laptop screen designing cool graphics about titands? I cannot. Therefore, I was like, it's pretty clear these guys are interested seriously in the job. If demands will be met, He's not going to sit down on fote Shepette.
He did to work through his Bible. Well, he's definitely got someone younger with him, right, He's he's got I mean, it's like, yeah, my son is much better making slide shows for his class than I'm he's got someone working with him, but it shows, it shows how serious it is he is. I'm excited about it like he's much. I think he's gonna be much more fun to watch from afar and cover than than have as like a fellow media member. How how does it feel for you?
You know you're wearing that Boston hat. You're you're a young guy. You know you've had some experience with this coaching tree. You kind of reveal in the in the article again, everyone check out the read optional substeck, like, how does it feel to be a little speck a little part of the Belichick story here? Yeah, the guy who got it out there as that he's going to unc shocked the world.
I guess I think my mistake is an inside it if I'm critiquing myself as being almost too detailed. I think I think if there's more vagaries people aliable, maybe to leave it more. I kind of just put out the exact contract, like in full, which I don't think is normally out the inside a game goes, I think you just say deal close or stumbling blocks rather than articulating it.
But it feels slightly surreal.
I guess the payoff for having like tons of dunkin Donuts with guys ten years ago around Boston College. You know, maybe that's what it is. I'm writing twelve thousand words about why Zach Bourne is the best offball linebacker in the NFL. You know, the reward is getting a twenty four hour heads up on Bill Belichick.
I guess, mm, so you're going Bond over Warner for your All Pro team? Oh wait, can you get two off ball linebacker? They could both go there?
I think you could squeeze both in.
Okay, speaking of uh, you know football takes. You were on an episode. First one on that you were on an NFL daily was an episode entitled what if the bad Kirk Cousins shows up? This year? It happened, Like ya, talk about patting yourself on the back. This is a big week, a big week, big month. You know you famously look a lot like Kirk Cousins if you're watching And how do you feel watching your namesake how he's playing lately?
I feel sad watching it that these arm strength just eroded in the middle of the season. It wasn't that strong to begin with. He couldn't move. At the beginning of the season, they had to overhall their entire offense to hide the fact he couldn't move. And then they got him to move a little bit and somehow that seemed to evaporate his arm, And so there's elements of it and then just making really really peculiar decisions because
he just cannot drive the ball into coverage anymore. So, Yeah, and I've written and I believe that you took Michael Pennix with the first pick.
This was always the bite you we're.
Going to get yourself into what if this contract is a dud from the get go? And I think they've got a decision to make. In the decision I think will be go and find out what you have in the rookie sooner Robin Linter.
I kind of get while they're sticking with him this one week because he really did do a lot of good things Kirk last week, like it felt like it was like you saw a lot of the things you wanted to see, but then you saw the two interceptions that kind of ruined the rest of the positive stuff. But I kind of would want to see it maybe for one more week before pulling the plug. Maybe I'm crazy, Maybe I'm sentimental.
I don't know, it's sentimentality. We've seen him have like three, four or five solid week stretches in the season. But once the arm goes at that rate and you're playing week after week absorbing shots or refusing to take hits because they start to really really hurt when you're getting older, I'm not sure what you can do around that. Which would be the concern is that he feels liable now for five ducks a game, and you're just really hoping that two of them don't wind up with the other team.
It's depressing, but also makes me feel good because we really didn't do an episode quite like that during the rest of the preseason. That was just like a thought experiment, like everyone's just assuming that this is going to be some good, great Kirk Cousins experience. He wasn't always great, and even when he was healthy.
It feels like they're answered to our question what happens is they're just like, let's try and hide and pretend like this isn't happening, and hopefully no one sees the stat lines of zero touchdowns fourteen turnovers in a three week run.
Oh yeah. I mean they did such an admirable job. I thought he did too. It was almost like they were they were playing football with like these ankle weights and with just all sorts of restrictions in this tiny little box, and they were kind of making it work, which I thought was impressive for a while. Ali Connolly, he loves ball. Maybe that's why you got this story because they saw a like minded individual in Ali Connolly, like a little salty not afraid to puff his chest out.
You sent me a text. If people thought I was more unsufferable before, wait till after this. But ultimately it's about the joy that you're getting from from this game. Very cool man. I'm glad uh that you know it happened, that it's going and you're gonna have to be the Belichick inside of the next couple of years, in addition to all the x's and o's on the NFL that you're doing at the read optional.
I think it moved to North Carolina, might be on the cuts. This could be happening.
Let's go. Yeah, Ali, if if you didn't know, is living over in the UK, that's where he was on that Week six recap. We got to get him on the NFL Daily more maybe in the offseason when the timing works out better. Thank you again, Olie, it has been a big week. Thank you everyone for tuning in and listening. We will be back on Friday with the Pick Show with Cynthia Freeland against the spread and yeah, when Bill Belichick has a freaking head coaching job again, you know football is back finally,