Preseason Winners and Losers with Arif Hasan

I've pretty much enjoyed the Jets experience, you know, throughout the podcast. I know you have, Greg. I mean it's like it is funny because you are a respected football pundit and um, you're very good at your job. But it's so easy to see, like when something bad happens to the Jets, a little gleam in your eye you

can't wait to talk about it. Well, part part of it, I you know, I shared this with West two is I do want just teams that are watchable, and and that was one reason he couldn't wrap his arms around the Jets. It's just been a tough watch, Zach Wilson. We'll get to them. We're doing some winners and losers later. Zach Wilson's gonna change my Jets experience. Of course, I'm not going to be a Jets face. But if we'll make them watchable, I like. I like what I see

out of the kid. That's gonna make them a much better Sunday experience. The boy who will lead them, I hope. Um, but you're right about West, and I couldn't blame less. But there is a difference, that's all. It's fine. It's just like with the Giants. It's you are at your heart, even though you've moved across the country. UM, still a New England guy in some ways. And you don't like the New York teams. And that's okay. I think that

keep keeping that part of your fan hard alive. I don't think there's anything unhealthy about it, and I don't take offense to it. I really don't. Well, I would hope not. You threw like a three day celebration on the podcast when the Patriots last of the Titans a couple of years ago. It's like it was like a funeral, except like a celebration the January game where the Jets

would come to Gillette to play the Pats. We wouldn't even buy tickets, but we would go and tailgate in the January whether just to watch the Jet fans crying when they left Gillette. It's well, you picked the wrong one. I wonder why people hate New England sports fans. I was gonna say there were There weren't any Jets playoff games where they came in and and lost, but there was a great one where they came in and took care of the Patriots. So so that would have been

a bad one. Well that was before Eric I ever watched a football game. It was two thousand eleven. Yeah, all right, listen, Mark's not here. As you've already noticed Mark dealing with some unfortunate health issues, and remember he had the clotting issue, the blood clots that popped up again this weekend. He's doing okay, but he needed to get it taken care of and the doctors basically said chill out for a day or two. So we hope to have Mark back later in the week. But don't worry.

Mark's okay, but he's not with us for today's show. And by the way to do good vibes though sending good vibe It's like the safe Ferrists put it on the water tower. Save Settler. Um. I hope he's back Wednesday because Wednesday is wait for it, the annual around the NFL Fantasy Extravaganza. Yes, we do it every year end of August because you not should not be drafting a team before the end of August. I mean, in shame on you if you do, and we're gonna have

all sorts. I don't know, Greg, do you want to keep it close to the vest about who are super guests are this year and just roll them out in real time? Or do we want to tease it right now? It's up to you. You let it. Well, we get the big Fish every year. I think that's that's gonna bring in the fans. And there's no reason for any big Fish fans to know, I mean to worry that he won't be there. He'll be here, He'll be Yeah, but keep the was a surprise or that's some good

good Yes, the big Fish, of course. Evan Silva, late of Rhodo World, where he watched Greg and West building brick by brick, learned like an apprentice, and then he was, in fairness to Silva, he was ahead of West on the depth chart. He was sort of I wouldn't say he was ever West's boss, but he was there first and he helped teach him the ropes absolutely. So that's set up is perhaps unfair to Evan, but he did.

I if you look at the brick by Brick Tower of Rhodo World, and of course now Evan has moved on with Leviton to UH to establish the run that great site. But if if Greg basically, if you really want to break down what Greg just did there, he said, no, West wasn't truly brick by brick. I was brick by brick. Ev and Chris and I were. I'm just trying not to say that he was. You know that Silvia was some coming, you know, come along lately and had to learn from West. He was there, he was, he felt it.

You left the brick by brick place for pro football talk. And then Silva built it higher, turned it into one thousand, seven hundred and seventy six ft of steel in America. That I think that's a good way to look at it. And then they changed the name this year to NBC Sports Edge. Great, great job. Well, I do not recognize that. Even in my Google search is when I'm checking in I as I make a point to uh do a name plus Rhoda World search, I type in Rhoda World,

you know, just to let them not rotal World. We love your product, all right anyway, Okay, so Fantasy Extravagans on Wednesday, Today's show is a good one. We are going to have a special guest, the Great Arif Hasan, who covers the vikings for the athletic and is plugged in on all things NFL related. He's gonna sit in when we discuss our winners and losers of training camp, which ends the this week. Is this the official end of training camp for NFL teams? Yeah, I mean this

will really the preseason week two. We'll we'll take a look back on everything that happened. But you're right, the sort of what they call training camp where the practices are open, some of them are already closed and the rest of them are closing up this week where where the you know, players can go, media can go. After this week that every team just like shuts it down and starts getting secretive. Right, all right, So that's coming up.

We're gonna do some winners and losers from training camp slash preseason week two, but before that, some news starts radio. So in this scenario, I guess I'm Francessa, but you're not quite a dog. I mean, I'm more mad Dog than anyone else that's ever been on this podcast. I'll take it. You know, I like tennis a little annoying and loud and opinionated. Your whatever you say is not gonna bother me. I'll take I'll take take Chris Russo, I'll gladly take that, all right. Cool Mark might not

be happy with that. He might want to be mad Dog. I mean, you guys, you guys grew up on it. But I um, I had a couple of years driving every day up to Rhoda World, you know, to go back to the brick building from the city a couple of times a week, and I mean I planned around Mike and the Mad Dog, so I have in my time. And then every Super Bowl week we have Russo on the show Mad Dog and the listeners are like, who is this guy? I don't know who he is? Why

do they like him so much? And it's like it's not for you, It's for us, and it will happen again this January. God willing. All right, let's get into the news, starting with a very positive update on the Carson Wentz front for the Indianapolis Colts. Uh. The veteran quarterback returned to practice on Monday, three weeks to surgery to remove a broken bone from his left foot. He took all of the first team reps and seven on

seven work. Said he's optimistic he could return for the Colts ahead of their Week one game against the Seahawks. Wentz told reporters after the practice, I'm optimistic, but we'll see how it responds. As long as there's nothing I can do to make it worse. I played through a lot worse, uh, Greg. There was also some clips out there on Twitter. The guy was moving around like he did not have any surgery at all. It feels like now, barring a setback, Carson Wentz will be their start or

week one. Right. What was it? What was this five to twelve week prognosis? I guess you don't know. And well, the Colts keep pushing back and saying we have to keep ramping it up and see how he responds. So it's too early to be as optimistic as which is fine until you watch that clip today and you see the way he's moving and you see that he took

every rep and it's like it's there. I mean, this is great news if you're an indefense and Quentin Nelson, they're all pro guard was back at practice who had the exact same injury, the exact same s A Dree and he's ramping up. It sounds like you were smart Dan to uh to avoid the whole Jacobison Ellinger Sam Ellener, Yes, because I made a mistake. I was literally in bed on Saturday night. Um, you know, it's a it's close

to bedtime. Amaca is reading and whatnot, and I'm that's that's when I put on the old Eastern Ellinger comparison. That's on Saturday night, you're in But at that point it was normally we might be reading or whatever. But yeah, it was it was close to going to bedtime. It was the Ellener Eastern Eastern time. And I'll give you the short, short version. They both didn't play that well, so that that was they both had a chance to

um to leave an impact. And I think when I was pushing back against the idea of getting too invested in that quarterback battle. I don't know if it was you or Mark, but you rightly. You guys rightly pushed back. Well went struggle historically to stay on the field, so even if he did make it back, it still matters

who they're back of quarterback is. But then you could push back that and say, listen, if Carson Wentz ends up getting seriously hurt again, it's over anyway, unless um eleanor turns out to be Aaron Rodgers, like the owners said a couple of weeks ago. But the big picture here is whence being ahead of schedule. Yeah, the five to twelve week thing was funky from the very beginning, so I guess we shouldn't be surprised that it ended

up having a weird turn. Um. But um, I'm excited because the NFC South needs all the juice that can get uh, and having Carson Wentz there and Quentin Nelson there is a huge step forward. And when you look at that division and who's the favorite, which I think the Titans are, but if the Colts have these players ready, uh, it changes things for sure. Yeah, that's why it gets tricky,

like projecting too far out. I remember doing I did a Seattle like radio station thing like the day after this first WENTZ news came out, and they're just like, we're gonna roll in week one. You know, they were already going ahead to week one that the Colts are coming to Seattle, and I you know, I would give the Sax a good chance in that game no matter what. But it's it changes a lot, it'll continue to change.

We still as as close as the season feels, this is always the longest month I think of the NFL calendar, We're still we're still three weeks away. I mean yesterday would have been three weeks away from the first Sunday of the year. That's still a while. So you get in your family time, do what you can. The one fewer week of preseason games helps for me because it always felt just interminable the four weeks and then the five if you count the Hall of Fame game. Um,

I don't want to get sidetracked here. I do have an overall preseason takeaway. I guess we could save that for this segment though. In other news, Cam Newton, you get the Jab the JAB moratorium on JAB Talk. Remember we're out on saying we don't say anyway, Cam Newton has an issue. He won't be allowed in the past's facility until Thursday. After what he deemed a COVID nineteen tests misunderstanding. He left the region of New England for

a medical appointment UM. But because he did not follow the correct protocol UM for UM being out of the region, he now has to stay away from the team UH for the next several days, which is very bad timing for Cam. I mentioned the JAB thing because because of UH, it tells us that Cam Newton is not vaccinated, because he has to follow this different, stricter protocol UH. And that's disappointing, UM for the Patriots because they're trying to

figure out who their quarterback is. And if you're Cam Newton and you know you're in a real battle here with Mac Jones, and I feel like the preseason and you tell me Greg has been pretty neck and neck disappearing for most of a week inside three weeks of the season. Not great. I mean, if Cam Newton loses his starting job because of the COVID protocols, so stupid, so annoying. I found it really interesting that Pictures Opportunity though, no, no,

it's I'm not putting any blame on the protocols. I'm just saying, like, are you serious, man um. The Patriots put out the statement, they seemed to take the responsibility for it, which I found interesting. They really go out of their way to always back Cam. Essentially, they they they pointed out that they approved he was allowed to leave, that he took tests the whole time he was gone, and they seemed and it's not like he tested positive

or anything, they seemed to take responsibility. That's somewhere they didn't really understand the protocols or the rules that he was required because they were like, we got the test, he was taking the test while he was offsite, but something happened along the way they messed it up. He's already served two of those days. I guess that he was away and he'll be back on Thursday. But that's huge. Mac Jones was awesome this weekend. Uh yeah, it's neck

and neck and and Cam had a great quarter. But Mac Jones has done everything possible to put as much pressure on Cam new and I think want to start Cam Newton week one. I think they will start Cam Newton week one because he's played well enough to keep the job. They want to see what the running game is like with Cam Newton. That's definitely an asset. I think mac jones knee might be a little bit of an issue. Look pretty awkward there during part of that game,

and that that's another reason to set them. But there are these joint practices this week, and I was wondering, are they gonna want to play mac Jones with the starters because I kind of want to see that they haven't really done that they haven't done in practice. It's been a little under the radar. I mean, Gardner Minshew's gotten way way more first team reps then mac Jones has. It's it's pretty much been Cam with the ones, mac

Jones with the two. So now that changes up in a big week leading if you got a warrior on your team, you gotta make sure he's getting all those reps. I have a conspiracy theory that these NFL COVID rules, if you don't have the GB Byzantine, by design, make it as hard as possible on these guys and these teams,

so people have to go get the shot. Just the theory, Mac Jones, But for what it's worth, also, you know what's not wanting to talk about the vaccine as CAM was not weeks ago, so who knows that might be a risky quarterbackground. We'll see. Well that's a that's a good call. In other COVID news, by the way, Mike Rabel, the coach of the Tennessee Titans, he is in UM the COVID protocol. I believe he tested positive. He did, yeah,

of course, because he's required to as a coach. So he's away from the team UM and hopefully we'll be back after a minimum stay on that designated COVID lest So it's just you know, just get ready for it. It's gonna happen throughout this season, and you just hope it doesn't take away UH superstars off the table. You

hope people don't get seriously ill. But thankfully, at least for the vaccinated UM people in this country and around the world, you have a much better chance of avoiding a serious illness UM if you are vaccinated, which makes you think maybe you should be vaccinated. Did But let me just move on. Nice fun report. This is more like the type of news item we'd really sink our teeth into about a month ago. But Since it's out there,

we'll talk about it. Khalil Mack one of the biggest blockbuster trades in the last decade when the Raiders sent the former first round pick to the Bears for a buttload of draft picks. Uh He's had a nice run with Chicago, but the Raiders defense has never been able to really recover without Mac in the middle of their defense. And the athletics Victor fur did we say, Taffer, what do we decide? On that show I went to? We never found the just call him vic Vic reports that

the Raiders inquired about Khalil Mack's availability this offseason. Uh grew unreportedly cried for three days after trading his superstar wanted him back to fix the Raiders pass rush, but the Bears were not interested in making music. And I just in this story hilarious, like the little details you know, Vick. Vick has some good Raiders nuggets every once in a while.

The Athletics, the athletics coverage in general is great with the Raiders and the fact that he said Gruden would keep this award that he won from the Sloan Analytics Conference that they gave to the Raiders for the transaction of the year when they traded Khalil Mack was a great little It was a great little detailed to me. But clearly he doesn't view it as the transaction of the year because you look at what they've done since

they haven't had any pass restords. They spent a ton of money, all the draft picks that they got, and most of the money that they spent we're on players that didn't work out ultimately. Yep, that's kind of the whole thing. Sometimes you wonder, if you're Raiders fan at least, like has growed and lost the plot? Has he never even had a true plot here? And then you see a report like that just seems like they're spinning their wheels.

This was this was pre Mayak, and he really makes it sound like Mac you know, didn't want to come back and this and that and like, but it was an emotion. It'll move. That was a mistake. They gave Derek Carr and gave Jackson their money before they gave Khalil Mack a contract. They were all in the same draft class. Like, the fact that that happened was a huge mistake. Ricky, do you have an update on the VIC situation? I'm trying to find the text, but it

was so long ago. But I think you know there was some either either way you were saying it was wrong. And then he texted me and was like, oh, f y, I just so you know, uh, but can't confirm which which get back to us if you could figure it out. Uh. In other news, Darius Smith, the star linebacker for the Packers, could potentially miss Week one. According to Packers coach Matt la fleur Um, he has been dealing with a back injury.

Always tricky back injuries, of course, um, but it seems that the Packers are open to the idea of either protecting Smith and rapping up more slowly with a long season ahead and including hopefully a deep playoff run. Or the other way to look at, of course, Greg is there might be something wrong here in a more substantial way. I guess we'll find out. They need him, you know, he came off the non football injury list like a week ago, and the fact that then they're saying this

now publicly indicates something is din't going great. Uh. They lost you know, they haven't had Kyle Facral. They're just not that deep, I think in terms of their addresser Rashawn Gary will be a bigger factor for them this year in general. But that's that's significant when two of maybe their best five players, Zadarius Smith and David back Dry, might miss the start of the season, that that is notable. And other injury news the Jets officially, I saw it

on ESPN dot Com. It's just like, come on, does it have to be this way? The headline is injury plague. Jets lose another uh starter on defense. This time it's linebacker Jared Davis, who signed away from the Lions in the off season a one year deal and portant guy in a rebuild linebacking group under Robert Sali. Well, he suffered an ankle injury. Robert Sali said, it's not a high ankle sprain, but it's gonna be treated like a high ankle sprain, which is like, I guess it's kind

of a high ankle sprain. Uh. They hope to have him back around the bye week, which is Week six. So that is a very thin group and a very unproven group, and a lot's being asked of c. J. Moseley, who has missed two years to play in the middle of that defense. So within twenty four hours or thirty six hours, the Jets lost. Uh. Of course, Karl Lawson, their star ed dresser, and then Jared Davis, a guy that the team is very high on having a bounce

back after a disappointing run with Detroit. UH. Tough, and it's just gonna be such a challenge, uh for slid to make this defense okay, because the back end is poor or it's it looks poor on paper. You need that pressure up front, you need the linebackers to cover, and if you're gonna be thin in both those areas, it's gonna be extremely difficult to stay competitive. I haven't It's made a lot of great offseason moves. Jared Davis is one of the most surprising free agent signings. You know,

he really struggled in Detroit. But you're right, Sale's I don't know. He's got a lot of He's got a lot on his plate to make them good in the front seven, because I think they're county on their defense to be solid. I think that was the basis of this team. And it's been a very annoying couple of weeks. They're really last week. Is this the part where I have the gleam in my eye. I mean, you're I think because Jared Davis really doesn't get the motor run. But I think, um the fact that I kind of

called it out at the beginning of the show. You're trying to have a nice poker face here, but I still see it. There's a gleam gentleman and other injury news a J. Mccaren towards a C l um and the preseason game. Really tough break for mccaren who's obviously out for the year, and now Atlanta has nobody at all proven behind Matt Ryan, who's been an iron man in his career, but he's also entering his or now into his mid thirties, so that's an issue for the Falcons.

And finally, nineteen in a row for the Baltimore Ravens. The preseason streak that won't end, it can end? Can they be beat? No? Fun way, that's right, twenty three over the Panthers, who couldn't even compete. They said, yeah, we have a brand new quarterback and Sam Donald trying to learn an offense. We're just gonna play him one series because why do we even want to be around the Ravens right now? This is the biggest story sports story.

No one's talking about you. You have really taken it and made it your own, you know with the trailer, I really that last time. And yeah, it puts it puts a lot into this week's game, you know, because there's no fourth week of the preseason, and because they've now tied the all time record with the Green Bay Packers nine straight preseason wins, one of the most storied records in sports. You know, this is a big deal.

This is this is exactly what the ENDFL was looking for in the preseason, a lot of national attention, and I'm glad we're we're able to give it absolutely And then you know, that's a perfect segue. That's what's happening in the news. To bring on our guest today because on his Twitter profile it's his name afsan Comma preseason enthusiast, So let's welcome him on the show. First of all, what's up, a reef? Welcome? Hey, what's going on around the NFL podcast? You have to be humming over this

Baltimore Raven Street process. Yeah, I mean, you love to see it happen. Uh. It kind of reminds me of Yukon women's basketball. That streak um just I honestly, I'm tearing up a little bit just thinking about the day that the titan and fall. You know, it's it's gonna be tough. But in order for the streak to have meaning, it has to end at some point of the wise, you know historically what you know, what does it mean? Right? True that we could get a lot of buzz though

throughout the whole season. If they can get to twenty, that's a nice round number the whole year, build up until next and there I just checked their playing there. You know, local rivals, the Washington football team and some teams I would say even maybe most teams this preseason not taking it too seriously. You know, one of the teams that do put out their starters for a nice chunk of time might have Ryan Fitzpatrick playing that whole

first half. There is nothing that Ron Rivera would love to do more than to take down his UH rivals that matters. Yeah. Well, you say that the streak has to end for to truly matter, and I like that from like a philosophical standpoint, But then you think about head coaches in the NFL and the egos on these guys, um, John Harbaugh. The way you look at this is, oh, it's a reflection on the organization and the coaching and

the attention to detail and why everything matters. It's really the shine is on the coach more than the players. So you think that Harbor wants to maybe do this until he retires. I mean this could go next level and I'm really excited to see what happens. Yeah, for sure, for sure, And I mean it makes the most sense in the world that the person that holds this streak is also a former special teams coordinator, right, who best to connect with the depth players that you know populate

the preseason. Um? Alright, so a reef, thank you for joining us, and we're nice talking to you. All right, there goes No, we want to talk some training camp slash preseason winners and losers, and how about this. You're our guests or if do you want? You can go any direction you want. We know you cover the vikings beautifully for the athletic If you want to start with them, you can do that. If you want to go somewhere else. What is something that's kind of caught your eye as

training camp kind of wraps up here? In August. Sure, Well, the stuff that's like kind of interesting to me to the Vikings probably just doesn't like matter leaguewide. So I'll talk about some of the stuff we're in the league that is catching my eye. I think the first round offensive lineman um have had a really rough go of

it this preseason, right Obviously. I mean there's been a lot of discussion about Pina Swell, right, and you know, there's all the reasons in the world that it wouldn't make sense for him to you know, come out of the gate with with you know, all the cylinders running, but you know, right tackle, he is having a lot of trouble. There's spent a years since he's played you know football, but you know, neither Elijah Bara Tuck or Christian Deary saw have seen the field yet, right, So

that's that's a pretty big concern um. I guess maybe the best one so far has been Alex Leatherwood, which is funny kind of considering the draft conversations with him and the Raiders pick of him and then Slater he's got like some back issues or something, but he he didn't participate in Week two. Uh, and so it's just like maybe we're spoiled, right because last year's first round

offensive lineman, we're fantastic even in the preseason, right. I don't think we got a bunch of Mickey back to the Firember correctly in the preseason, but you know, we saw a bunch of really great Christian works. Isn't nicky but maybe it is now you We don't know. I feel like Butki sounds cooler, though. I gotta we got started doing that. Un tell him correctly, check on that now.

But yeah, I mean last year, I mean they were Jedrick Wills was doing well in the preseason, took a little bit of time to get going in the regular season, but had a really strong going. It's really only Andrew Thomas, right that we were worried about early on. Um, So it's just first round offensive lineman haven't indicated that they're worthy investment yet. Maybe maybe all of them will be, maybe none of them will be. I don't know, but you know, this is what preseason takes are for worried

about first round offensive lineman. So that stood that. But those are some of the most important rookies on any teams, because yeah, they were all drafted with the ideas like, oh, that problem solved, Like, don't need Charles Leno anymore. You know you didn't Davin Jenkins, but you know he's out. We talked about him a lot last week. We haven't talked about Penay Seul on this show. And uh, you know our our enemy, Daniel Jeremiah, who I think it's going to get into podcasting this year, so keep a

lookout on that. He noticed job Sewel. Sewel just does not look comfortable. And you don't need to be like a former scout like Jeremiah to see that, and it does get you thinking, like you draft this guy number seven overall, he's such an important part, and then you just change his positions like he's never played right tackle right tackle because you have um Taylor Decker at left tackle. But that that always worries me. I know what kind of work It worked for Jedrick Wills, but it's not

gonna work for everyone. And you're right. Of all those guys, I think Slater is the one that that the Chargers aren't worried about. They seem to think he looks great and they're just keeping anyone that possibly matters out of the preseason. But for the rest of those teams like that is that is huge? Alright? You like the Bengals couldn't have made the right choice there, right because Jamar

Chase isn't looking good? All right? Well let me jump in then, because I you know, I didn't want to dwell on this because we have hit this a couple of times on the show. What's going on with jam R Chase who is struggling in his first camp with the Cincinnati Bengals. Well, actually hit pause here because I want to I want to say something positive about the Bengals first, Okay, because it's been it's been relentlessly negative

on the show. Has just been a lot of bad news. Uh. This from your your colleague, UM, Paul Denner, junior at the Athletic has kicker Evan McPherson enjoyed the best camp in preseason by a rookie kicker since Lou Groza in n I don't know, and I don't know if Groza even kicked the training camp the year after World War Two ended, But I can't imagine anybody being better than McPherson over the last month. The only kick he has missed that the media has been able to see was

a sixty yarder in the fan fest event. That's it. He's destroying the ball accurately, little little kick corner in the game. Austin Siebert has been good too, but not good. I'm glad to year one one miss because as a as someone who follows the Vikings, I know how dangerous it is to be perfect for an entire session. Oh no, no, Gary Anderson references on the show. People aren't prepared for it at your Vikings fan anyway. So there's the good

news they have. They have a positive kicking competition, UM and special teams. But the Jamar chasing. So not only does he struggle Chase throughout the lead up to this weekend, then in the preseason game, he drops three targets in the in the game against Washington on Friday, Then on Sunday, UM he's in practice and Burrows just putting it on him and he has a couple more drops, and he's doing the thing where he's got the towel over his head and there's just a lot of mental stuff going on.

And then uh, there's a report again from Dinner that Jamaar Chase could lose some regular season snaps to Audent take uh the in house receiver they have there. So I'm not ringing the alarm bell because he did miss all of the last season when he opted out, and he could be rusty, but you just you were hoping at some point he's going to turn the corner here, and now it's becoming more and more of a story.

And uh, if we're talking winners and losers, Uh not that March is a loser, but this is a losing scenario right now for Cincinnati. Yeah, it's tough. I don't wanna because like so for his teammate at L s U, Justin Jefferson, right, Um, you know he outproduced Justin Jefferson at L s U. You think, well one to one, maybe maybe he'll you know, continue to do well. But also for Robber, Jefferson didn't win the starting job coming out of camp as a Viking. You know, he didn't

start the first two games. And I don't think it's like a case of Mike Zimmer being like stubborn. He did not look that spectacular camp, didn't look as like I guess as bad as Chase is currently looking, but did not look um like he clearly won the starting job from BC Johnson, who right now is like fifth or six of the Vikings receiver death chart, and so coming out of camp like it, it was like kind of a story like are we going to get anything out of him you know this year? Um? Or are

we gonna have to wait? So I keep that in mind. You know, the kind of the preseason stuff, the early stuff. You know, it matters, but maybe not as much as as we like to pretend. Even for me a preseason enthusiast, you know, I have to I have to remember that when when people go to games, they pay to go to that. Uh. You know, these things don't always translate, but it sounds like cardan full price for these games. They're charging full price to watch Nathan Peterman versus uh,

who was Bryce Hopkins? What is like? If that drives me crazy? The fans? Well, this is all right. Let me just before we go to you, Greg for your first winner and loser, I just want to say the preseason I don't know, man, I think we're in a dicey time right now. They've cut it from four to three and more and more teams arresting the starters, and then you have and I'll use it as an example, um as I often do, I'll use the jet Zack Wilson performed very well, uh this weekend, but he wasn't

going against any Packers starters. So it's like, I don't know what's really take out of that. He he's getting reps on the field and live action, but is he really getting a true experience ahead of Week one against starters? And then you see what happens to a J mccarroen who blows out his knee, and then you look you think about Sean McVeigh was like, as long as I'm ever a coach here, no one's ever gonna be playing

in the preseason starters. And if this is going to continue to just devolve into these are just the backups and uh there's no structure to it. Ay, they need to revisit how much fans are getting charged for these games and be you just wonder if it's eventually five years from now, it's just gonna be all uh scrimmages and uh, you know, inter squad practices, and if that's what this is gonna turn into, because I feel like we're in this like ray area in a way that

is even more extreme than it used to be. Well people, Yeah, I think thought, okay, well we cut it down one that solves that question. But no, like you know, Goodell said for years how it's such a bad product. They changing it from four to three hasn't changed that. And to your point, you're right, Dan, if you think about who are the coaches that are playing guys and says where I don't think there's a right answer, like it's Andy Reid and Bill Belichick. It's like the two of

the greatest coaches of all time. They think that playing football helps you to play football. You know that it helps you get better at playing football, that you know, playing some football helps. So that was that was really good. Not to say that at one side is corrected the other one. But let me use this phrase. That makes it very clear what the oldest coaches in the league.

So it might be a generational thing. There has to be value in it, but there obviously is value in the other side and that you can get the work, uh in the practices. I I don't know if eventually the entire league is going to be like that, but you're right, it's it's a tough go. It's a tough

go to to to draw anything. Well, let's bring up Zach Wilsons and if I'll throw out him as a winner though, because I don't know, especially the way camp started with him, you know, you you the practice reports were up and down, the scrimmage reports were up and down, and he just looks comfortable. I didn't know what to draw of his first game, not that there was anything bad to it, but it was just really basic. And and and some defenses stay really basic in the precess and

some are not. Some are running all sorts of complicated. Blitz is like the whole time, because that's like their base defense and that's just what they want to do. And Zach Wilson hasn't played a defense like that or played starters. But I think the way he moves in the pocket and the way he's going through progressions, in

the way that he just looks comfortable back there. He certainly passes the eye tests, and I think that is what preseason can be good for that it's given him and the coaching staff more confidence in how he is going to enter the season. I am excited to watch the New York Jets, and it's been it's been a while at least just as an entertaining because I'm into quarterbacks and Zack Wilson. So far, I think, is that

a really positive preseason? Good offensive line, good receivers, interesting quarterback, good interior defensive line. Honestly, I mean that's that's an interesting team to follow. Um. Wilson the thing that jumps out to me. And by the way, I'm in now, or if you should know, I'm a Jets fan, Um I am. I was. I was trying to sit out the Zach Wilson hype period because I was hurt by

Sam Donald and Browning Nagle and everyone in between. Um, but now I'm all in because he just looks so free and easy and confident, and I just like the way he I don't know, man, I'm starting to feel like maybe they hit on something here. But again, going back to my point, who knows. Maybe he's just going against a bunch of few future ups, drivers and bouncers and this isn't anything to get excited about. But he has looked very good. All right Back to you, are

we um? He kind of took the Zach Wilson went away from me. Honestly, Well, do you have to add? I certainly won't stop you? Well, no, I I think that point about the defense is good because you can contrast Zack Wilson with say Justin Fields or Trey Lance, who have had some really fantastic moments in the preseason thus far, some really great moments that can get you excited about them with moments where you're like, well they aren't playing a more complicated defense and man Fields look blinkered.

Uh kind of figure out kind of what that blitz situation was as others. A healthy debate on Twitter about who that was on. But I mean, at the end of the day, um, unblocked defender is coming for you. You have to do something about it. You have to see it. Right. He cracked in that game, absolutely in the moment that had to freak out Bears fans. Oh yeah,

I have to imagine for sure. Um, and you know he's like famously a fairly tough player coming out of college, so you know, I imagine that you know he'll just kind of use this to to learn and move on. But it kind of looks like he's not ready. Trey Lance, Um, you know, his high highs are really great, They're really fun.

Some of his best moments he's got, like there's not even a defender within eight yards, much less three yards of him, and he's just firing off a deep on into a wide open which is what Shanahan's great at right, a wide open tight end down the field or something. Um. But then there are other moments where like, well he's kind of slow, he's not kind of getting kind of what he needs, especially beginning this this this week two

game that he had. UM. So you contrast that with Zack Wilson, who's maybe not facing the same challenges defensively as his other two were, but you at least get to see kind of what that floor might be for him. That's really exciting to see. Um. Yeah, I mean that's that's what I get to add on too. And I also got to throw in that discussion about about fields

and uh and Lansing there two. So I guess I guess to cut my peace and well, let's I want to say though that Jimmy g would be one of my fathers in a strange way, which is that it really feels like Kyle Shanahan wants Trey Lance to win this job eek one, which is which is what I kind of felt coming into camp. We've talked about it.

I agree with you, a reef. I think the second Tray Lance game, but it's pretty similar to the first, had a lot of things to be a little concerned about, you know, holding the ball um, just not being able to read things, seeing seeming a little tight for most of that performance until he gets into the two minute drill. But then you look at like the drives that he's played. He's played fourteen drives in the last two weeks, and it really feels like Shanahan's trying to set him up

to win the job. And then after the game he refuses to say is the week one starter? So I don't know who's a winner and loser here, like clarity, I guess is the loser. But it feels like if it cost a lot more to trade for someone who might start than somebody right, if he wants to Trey Lance to win the job, then it's then Trey Lance

is gonna win the job. Maybe it won't be weak one, but I don't know, Like I don't think Trey Lance has shown enough that you just give it to him, But it looks like that's what Kyle Stan wants to happen. Let me move to the defending a f C champions Um. You know, I feel I have this feeling, and it's not bold or brave on any level that Patrick Mahomes is gonna drop a major season for the Ages this year, UM, just for a better line and still has these superstars

around him. And then just how talented he is, like mastervice Craft type season coming up, fifty touchdown type season if he stays healthy. Now the other side of the ball is the only thing that's gonna stop him. And I just think you keep on reading about Chris Jones UH and how good he books, and the shape he's in, and how he's been completely dominant UH in practices in

preseasons and preseason. I'm I'm just wondering, like, how good can the Chief's defense be because it's one of those situations where it just needs to be okay, Right, So if you have somebody like Jones delivering a monster season that can carry you to okay almost single handedly. Feels like he feels like a great Defensive Player of the

Year pick for what. I don't know what the odds are, but whatever it is, he feels like he would be a nice one because I'm sure he's not one of the few favorites, but yeah, him playing at defensive end

and everything you hear, you're absolutely right. Yeah, And I think I've got like some really interesting pieces that I mean, like Lujarius Sneed had a really great rookie year last season, didn't get to play the full season, but had a really great rookiear last Season's looked pretty good in the preseason, So they've got some pieces on defense that that will allow them to kind of, I guess, make it impossible for other offenses to keep pace. I guess it's the

goal here for for the Chiefs defense. So yeah, pretty excited about that. I had the Chiefs written down as one of the winners to or something related to the Chiefs, which was the Chiefs running game. The Chiefs do give us something. They do give the preseason enthusiasts something they show a lot in the preseason and they're running game. This preseason has been very diverse, like mixing in a lot of extra stuff. I like what I've seen out of Jeric McKinnon. I'm kind of a sucker for him.

He did not look ever healthy in San Francisco last year, but supposedly from everyone who's watched practice every day, he showed up there and has been a difference Baker, and he looks good on the field, and so I think the Chiefs running game, they keep saying in practice, it's all about these long, slow drives because that's what defenses are going to give to Patrick Mahomes, and so I think the running game could be could be better this year. Give them a winner. Do you are you curious at

all the actual odds for Defensive Player of the Year. Yeah, all right, I don't even know where this is coming from, and it doesn't really matter. I don't even know if for a lot to talk about this um, but all the usual suspects, Aaron Donald, Miles, Garrett T. J Watt, Nick bos A, Joey Us, back to back, that's Proud, Chase Young, Khalil Max. So that's the top eight, and then man Derwin James. I like that. That's that's pie in the sky, but I guess I could see it.

That's fun. And then rounding out the top ten is Minka Fitzpatrick. I don't even see Chris Jones on this list, so maybe a nice long long Chris Jones dial hunter. There's some pretty good values to have on the field, right that's that's interesting. Do you have another one? Uh? Yeah, sure, let's I mean a couple of defensive players. I wanted to talk about. Malik McDowell had a really good game this past week. And you know he's been he's had so much trouble, you know, since the Seats acquired him.

I mean, uh, he had an a TV accident that put him on the on the reserve list. Yeah, it's he's just been such a rough go for him. Um, he was picked in the second round. He was super talented, probably could have been picked in the first round honestly, Um, but injuries from the actor hasn't prevented him from from ever kind of seeing the field with the Seahawks. Um ended up with Like he had a couple of alcohol

struggles too. It's it's really tough. I ended up getting arrested for buying stolen property, just like a brutal, brutal a couple of years for him. Had a great preseason with the Browns, who really need some sort of pass rushing interior help to go along with with Myles Garrett. So, uh, that game was really good for him. Uh, it would be fun for him to make the roster it's so easy to cheer for stories like that for somebody who's

who's been down on their luck. Uh and and to find you know, hopefully that you know that's that's gonna be a great organization for for him to find support with him because he looked really great and I kind of hope that trans round for him. So I'm gonna call him a preseason winner. Look at that going deep. I'm gonna I'm gonna go um on the Cowboys linebackers. They do want to get this and that I'm gonna go followers. I don't the losers harsh, but it is wild.

You're the one that said we should do the segment and said, yeah, here's the here's the here's the losers. It's it's Jalen Smith and Layton vander Esh like this is this has been my corner since since the draft. But I can't believe it happened so quickly. They are backups. They are backups. Jalen Smith is one of the highest paid linebackers in the league. Laton Vanderesh was a first round pick who had one of the better rookie linebacker

seasons of the last decade. Has not been the same since they are backups to Michael Parsons and Kian O'Neil. Like that the switch has already happened. It's apparently it's happened for two straight weeks. Michael Parsons is starting at middle linebacker over Vanderesh, and Keyan O'Neil, who came with Dan Quinn from Atlanta, is starting over Jalen Smith. I'm at the point where I kind of expect Jalen Smith to be traded or cut, maybe because that feels like

a problem. He's one of the biggest vocal leaders on that team. I don't I don't think that will happen with Banderesh, But I'm just kind of amazed and happy that they're like the Cowboys just made the move. They're not They are not messing around. These are I mean, that's depth for you. Now you have Cowboys could be winners. I mean, they're great at that position. They have other positions they've maybe could have used to upgrade. But Michael Parsons looked so good. No one is gonna is gonna

say that was a bad pick. That's for sure. That's a good one. I like that because Mark's not here. Let me bring up. Jake Funk, the rookie seventh round pick of the Rams. Yeah, on seven carries uh this weekend, So he's making progress. Xavier Jones also in the mix. Remember it's Darrell Henderson who's the starter for the Rams at running back after the season ending achilles tear for cam Akers. But maybe Funk is bringing the funk to that running back room. That's for you, Mark Sessler, or

if you got one more before we say goodbye. Yeah, how about the Buffalo pass rush? I think that was an area where they could have used a lot of help last year. I mean, I mean it was a really good team offense and defense, but you know they relied on a lot of blitz is from like a j. Klein to in order to finally get the pressure uh.

And you know Jerry uses up there in age and and so you know they've they've gotten a couple of pass rushers in the past two drafts and a JP and Ess and great group so both of whom have looked really good rushing off the edge. This preseason. You know, we talked about how rough it was for Penny so well, one of the players he's up against was great Great Rousseau who ended up having a really good game, So if both and honestly, I didn't really like either of

these picks by the Bills. I thought Rosa was overrated. I thought Evanessa was overrated. Happy to eat my words because they both, at least so far, look really really good. Bills are scary. I had written that downe to like that was the biggest concern I think of the entire team coming into training camp, and now they have these two young guys. That's another like preseason can have value.

People think it doesn't have any value, Like I am much higher on their pass rush now because Greg Russo looks like a great pick and Epanessa, who was not good last year didn't play much, looks like he's kind of taking a second year leap, like the Colts pass rushes. Similarly, a group I'm a little higher on now than I was going in into camp. Quitti Pace supposed their rookies supposedly had a really good camp. Ben bonnagu a second round like done nothing in his career, looks like he's

flashing and they needed those guys to step up. They decided to kind of get rid of a bunch of veterans and have the young guys step up and draft pay. So far, it looks like it's working. So it's like you can, you can, you can learn things as a preseason enthusiast. Well, how about this, I mean preseason matters to Mitch Drabinski, events goes against his old team, torches him four straight touchdown drives to start the game, twenty in the touch in the first half. I don't know.

I still don't know how bron Brian Dable didn't get a job, But if he turns Mitch Drabinski into a functional NFL player at least a really good backup uh this season. I mean, the Bills are just so well set up um at every level, especially if they make that jump the best. I think this has a chance to be the best a FC East since since I've been on the job, like the last decade and a half.

What's the last chance? Maybe, well, maybe we'll be wrong, but it's been a bad so maybe I'll tell you when's the last time the a f C East was truly competitive across the board, like all the way around, like across the board, like late nineties when you had the Bills the Jets with parcels the Patriots with Bled so uh, and the Dolphins at all at that time. It was kind of like everyone was in the mix at the same time. Nobody was in a down period.

It's pretty much we all know the Patriots dominated for two decades, but there's been some really bad teams in that division during that stretch. Maybe this is the year Greg, especially at the Patriots. You would think, like the natural cycle of things, a team loses their franchise, legendary quarterback, they go into a down cycle for ten years. But that doesn't really feel like that's where the Patriots are, while the Dolphins, Jets rising in the Bills are awesome.

So the Dolphins and Jets and Patriots are above average teams. The Bills are a jugg or not, and the Jets are definitely better, gonna be watchable Like that's that's maybe a year away. Maybe the Jets are there. Speaking of rises and followers, I mean, to a teck of Love, it looked fantastic, yea, so good. This has been a very positive month for ta Alright, reef, you listen. We

have a dossier that we keep for guests. Uh. I don't know why we don't keep this information in the house and just share it freely that some people we have back. Some people we call hit it and quit it, they don't come back. We'd love to have you back. I don't even care for that sounds great. You don't know what it's like when we tell someone that they've made the hit it in quitit list at the end of their first appearance and that they'll never be back.

Just the looks on their face, it's like, you know, you didn't You didn't pay me for this. I am not I should not be subjected to this additional It's a very bad podcast, but thank you for making it better. A Reef and h follow Reef on Twitter and if you're a Vikings fan, that is the place to go. Uh the athletic Thank you buddy. Yeah, thanks for having me on there, he goes, good one. Good guests right there, Ricky,

how's the dos say coming? Because you would think after it kind of puts you on the spot a little bit last week and you gave us the dog ate my homework that maybe the file would drop into our text email like later that day, but still haven't seen it yet. She oh did, Yeah, I had like two names could not have taken too long to put together. She did send it my my deepest apologies. Well Greg did that too. Actually this morning he sent me some

Where's that. I was like, where's the link? The night Greg asked me, He's like, can we get the links way earlier just so I can have it? And I'm like, of course, I'm not just things, and you produced the show and you often send the link like well after this, So I sent it at seven pm, okay, And then Greg says at ten thirty this morning. Those early links for pods lasted about three weeks, and I said, sent it last night, and I said, scroll up three messages

and watch your tone. I stand by my statement because last because they were coming late last week. So you can't be a producer on this show if you if you can't stick up for yourself and Erica, you certainly do that. Greg trying to bully you. Come on, Greg, But I think, yeah, I didn't know if that was a nickname. I thought he was like, I don't know. I didn't know if a reef somehow had some sort of insider like knowledge, but probably not. All right, did

you have anything in your notebook there? Greg? Did you have a one more you wanted to throw out there, Um no, we didn't mention. We didn't mention. I think we hit all the big ones. But Teddy played perfect. Uh this week, I really got the sense, if you read between the lines, they were gearing up to name

your Lock the starter. I think they wanted to um going into the game, if you kind of read between the line of some of the reporting of people we trust, like a James Palmer, just felt like they were gearing up to do to name Lock the starter. But they had said, well, Teddy's gonna start the second game, and then all what happens. Teddy has like two perfect drives

where he makes some great plays. After the game, Fongio they compared him to Tom Brady and said he was doing some like elite next level stuff, and uh, I was like, I've never heard Fonio talk that positively about any offensive player. If you look at like the PFF grades, like Teddy has like an eighty three and Lock has a sixty four. Lock kind of struggled in the relief appearance, and now it feels like they don't know what to do.

So I don't know, I don't know if that's a winner a loser, But I think they wanted to go lock and now they shouldn't allow a couple of drives in the preseason to change you mind. How can they not know? I think you should base it on the body of work, and they know these players and that Ted's the better choice personally. But like it's they shouldn't base it on a driver too. But it felt like

he made a significant dent into that race. I don't know what they're gonna do that Bridgewater led as Gregg noted, calling it perfect. There's always that little extra flare with Greg and Bridgewater talk. It's not that it was a

really good performance. It was perfect. Uh two touchdown drives and two position possessions, which I guess it is perfect if if that's the what the barometer is for being a quarterback nine of eleven passing for a hundred and five yards and a touchdown and Founggio when asked about that QB decision, I mean, you could be listening to this now and he might have already announced it because he said it won't be Sunday, and it wasn't the earliest it could be would be early next week. So

we'll see, we'll see. I bet they start lock and they bench them like week three. That's my prediction. Yeah. I hope I'm wrong because I want to just ride this Teddy Broncos train to the playoffs. There usually is a team every year on this podcast. I guess it's kind of Team b tli um that it was West, but like you and Mark will get aligned on a team and get super on fire about him and I feel like the Broncos. But I kind of feel like that's what it was last August two. Yeah, well West

West has kind of been on the Fonsio Broncos. Uh, he was on him early. I think there. I think they've been setting up and building a lot of town. They had a lot of bad luck last year with with injuries and in their quarterbacks, but now they have Teddy to see it. Right. Well, the quarterback wasn't a bad luck. It was just bad quarterback back. All right. We'll be back Wednesday again. Yes, the annual Fantasy Extravaganza, shock full of guests, including that big old Fish, the

large Fish, the large Tuna, Evan silva Um. So make sure you're there for that. And I guess we're keeping a little open ended this week if if because We're gonna keep it fantasy focused on Wednesday, and maybe if we need another podcast later in the week, maybe it drops, you'll see um. But either way, we'll have the NFL

Network program as well, returning. I believe that's on Thursday this week, right, Okay, so uh Fantasy Extravaganns on Wednesday, NFL Network around, the NFL broadcast on Thursday, and we'll be on call otherwise for any other huge news that may develop in our league. Anything else. No, we might. We might uh finish this one in double digits. I do. I feel bad for Mark. He's had a tough weekend, and then the one show he's missing is the one that's sub one hour, which is all not even that tight.

We're at fifty six. Remember back in the day, we we used to really debate, you know, go back and forth. I would try to keep it under fifty. That was like my magical if we could get a lot of the lot of people, you get a lot of buzz on Twitter, A lot of people are excited that our show is generally about a half hour, not the ninety minute you know, Journeys of the Ear that some of these other football podcasts are that was from two thousand and thirteen, that clip, and we were doing some digging

on the West as a story. Erica came across that just just bloviating and bragging about how our show is thirty minutes and all these other jabronies are sixty to ninety minutes. It's just like a bunch of guys just full of themselves, can't you know, don't get sick of hearing their own voice? No, now, what have we? What have we become? It's important to defeat the monster that you do, not become the monster the fans. You know,

you were always on the corner of the fans. Fans never complained when it's longer, you know, never never the only person that's ever complained or some management figures um have complained about the length of the show. But the listeners look at Dan trying to stretch it over an hour. Now, I got all of those listeners. Now, let's name all

the countries that listen to this show. Algeria. I'm just going down that scroll when you have when you're building in some document online and you're looking for the United States, and always starts in Algeria because like the embassy Arab Emirates Arab Emirates. All right, that's it. No, this is a a sub hour. We did it because there is signing. I'm really disappointed, signing off for the old Boss and Ricky Hollywood. Thank you to our read until Wednesday, the extravaganza. He's the call s