Patrick Claybon and Hills We’re Willing to Live On

You know? I figured, um, if somebody's out because they're a new father, the best thing I could do is have a child and then uh, and then hop on Tom because well it's a bit of an upstaging. Would you say that's not the case? You know? Well, I mean I don't know. I'm not gonna pitch child versus

child here. I am obviously biased. But Greg, Greg asked and uh, I asked Lauren, you know, because I was like, hey, you know, I want to hang out with the guys kind of podcast and uh and she was like yeah, so we we we made it happen, which is cool. Do you have any parental units over there, anybody to help out or is it just the four of you? Her mom was here initially because Malcolm couldn't come to the hospital because he would have broken it. So, um, yeah,

we she was here. She left it a few days ago. So it's it's just us doing the two kid thing, which is uh so yes different. Claibon born Jugee, Age, you have to blame that on our researcher. My researcher is my five year old son Jack. Uh So you could throw him under the bus, but Sage Claibon born July twenty nine. And um, you know you also, Patrick told us before the show that you had abstained from

alcohol during the entirety of um laurence pregnancy. And then we were like, oh, it blew all of our minds. And then we said, well, how much do you drink? And you said, I believe the number was what my eight ounces is what you like between an ounces per week? I mean, you know, it's it's not like I'm I'm thirty six, guys, It's not like I'm anymore just going out getting blitzed all the time. Uh the number will

be a lot higher. Um, and I've spent so much time at home, Like at some point you have to be concerned about alcoholism if you're just at home with your three year old kicking back shots. Oh absolutely, you know what this has been. And I think this has been a common talking point that since this, you know, the COVID nineteen took hold in mid March, a lot of people have turned to drinking on some level to get a release, or just to relax after the kids are in bed, or just to relax and just to

kind of turn your brain off for stress reasons. I certainly was doing that, and I think, um, I think it's fair to say that you also then have to keep tabs on these things because how the days all like bleed into one another. You might realize, oh wait, I've I've drank multiple days in a row. Let's shut this thing down. That's why I instituted my weekend's only policy for that reason. M I mean I would say one thing that you know, Zessler conspicuously quiet. No, not

at all. I mean I think there was this period of sort of lush behavior, um when everything kind of melted and I and I forget. You can you can point to alcohol, you can point to lots of things, but it was, um, you know, I can maybe sleep in a little bit more than I need to, or not really care, um if the kids are roaming around the house or just eat take out food NonStop because hey,

look at me, I'm supporting vendors. But then suddenly it's tapped on like eighteen pounds, and um, it's not coming off as easily as it did in the day's pass. So you gotta there's a reckoning um at the end of all this. So I think it's lost its luster. The the caligular facts of self rooming that was something initially. It's like, hey, we're all in this together, just completely letting go. I do have to ask Patrick one question, though,

is someone who you know? I name my child Colton after Colt McCoy and I and when I see Sage, I have to ask if you've followed suit and named Sage after uh Sage Rosenfeld is one of your favorite when you go through quarterbacks, which is tough, right because you're looking for a name for a girl and it's like, man, I just have to name her after a quarterback, and Austin's quarterback ideally one of the more iconic quarterbacks in

NFL history, whose list of accomplishments includes things dropped out there. But yeah, well, the new stage will have the accomplishments. I mean he he had the stage copter. You know, that's Funny's remembered for although I do you know frankly who um my Texans fans And unfortunately it was a rough It was a rough moment. Was that a way? There was a cop where he got stage, got spun around and had a costly fumble in a game where I think all they kind of had to do is

hold onto the ball and they would have won. Uh, it was. It was a tough moment. But he had some great moments for with Miami that I enjoyed. There was great moment, yeah, there was. There was a stage take a while back, and so like I replied with a screenshot of me searching YouTube for Sage Rosen Phill's highlights and it said no results found. Everybody replied, like, hey,

stage copter, about the stage, it's a thing. It's out there, all right, good, all right, So you know, let's be honest here, Like, so, our our show, as as it's typically comprised, is four white dudes and Ricky, our producer, and you know it's important to have other perspectives, especially right now, and we've been lucky because it's not just like, oh, we gotta go dial up and let's get Steve Weishan here,

Let's get this us in that person. We have people that they're friends, friends of ours, and Steve weisch is a friend. He came on last week and and m j Acosta was on our network show on Friday, and that was you know, we really enjoyed having MJ on and uh, Patrick, we wanna We're excited to have you

on for a number of reasons. But you've always been very outspoken in a positive way on Twitter and and saying things that you believe in, and you've always been uh, there's no better, there's nobody better as a Twitter troll slayer than Patrick Claiban. Uh so said to have to have the opportunity to hear from you, um and listen to you at this time when you were, you know, in paternity leave. I don't think anybody thought it was even an option. So we're really happy to have you

on the show. I know what you're like. The last couple of weeks have been like, you know, all this unfolding in the world, said against the backdrop of the baby in the middle of it all, Like yeah, What's what's it been like for you, Patrick, It's I mean, that's the backdrop of everything because a lot of things have been happening, obviously, the global pandemic being one thing. We talked about not drinking going through a global pandemic where uh, you know, things have started happening and uh,

you get a few and not that it's bad. Like I like talking to people, but at a certain point, the white guilt phone calls to get a little tiresome. Um, But like I understand where people are coming from, honestly, Like because these discussions, right, because of the way that our society perceives racism is that it's this thing and either somebody is a racist and they're a bad person, or they're not a racist and they're a good person.

And we kind of elude this idea that there are racist things that good people can do that have racist

outcomes and negatively impact people. And so under that specter, like discussion of things these things is hard because well meaning people kind of don't want to talk about it, and it takes kind of the country being on fire before some people feel comfortable about talking about it for for fear of you know, being a bad person um, and that that kind of out is what allows these things to to continue because we as as a people, as a country, we have a difficult time addressing the

particular matters that that lead to these outcomes. Um. And so it's it's been different, uh, to see the reaction because like you guys know me, you talked about the tweets and you know, like the person that I am, I mean, this week is is last week, and last week is last month, and last month is last year, and last year is every moment since November that I've

been on this planet. But it's a little different to see, um, the world, the NFL, Roger Goodell, Um, you know, some coworkers that I had never spoken up to are spoken about this, you know, kind of stepping up in and you know, using the right language, you know, saying the right things. And so it's been different. It's been very different.

I was gonna say you mentioned that the NFL, you know how how it's been different internally, And I think we can you know, talk a little bit about that because it's it's out there, you know, the meeting even just that, Um, I assume you were on Patrick, the one where Roger Goodell Um spoke and UM they had some speakers involved in Steve Wish and mg Acosta hosted it and some there were some uh, definitely emotional moments with employees addressing Goodell, which was which was fascinating. I

don't think anything like that's ever happened before that. You know, that's already being written about in in Football Morning in America by Peter King, and you know some some of the stuff that was going on is in the Athletic article about how you know the players video came about in But just from an NFL perspective, you know, it

was really such a change. I'm curious Patrick what you were thinking watching that that first meeting, and we don't have to get into the details of it, but just seeing some of the young people at our company not only speak up and be emotional about their experiences and the word heartbroken UM sticks out to me in terms of a cowork of ours, Jerick that mentioned in terms of he was heartbroken about the reaction and the response that the NFL had had to everything, but also like

the tough questions that that Roger Goodell took um from from our employees and UM and I guess later that day. You know you saw you saw a little bit of a change from from Roger. Yeah, it was. It was in hardening. Um. You know for me, these are I mean, you guys know what we talked about. This like, this is a discussion I've been preparing for my whole life.

And so I'm sitting there holding, you know, a five day old and you know, I'm having to like pass her off to to her mom and kind of sneak away to listen in on this phone calls at the NFL. And I would love to be you know, listening to Yeah. No, it's it's something that's uh, you know, definitely important to this house. Um. But you know, you you wonder who's going to say it? Um, And I you don't have you pull back the curtain. You know, I'm going year by year. I don't know how long this is going

to be there for me. And so as as firmly as I tread, I still always try to find a way to tread lightly. And so like openly questioning the commissioner with regards to something that that pertains to a lawsuit that the NFL uh took place in, you know I can't do that. Um. I didn't feel like I would be able to do that safely. I don't. I can't afford counsel. You know, I can't afford to to get my knee surgery that I'm putting all for nine years. I can't find legal defense. So um to to to

see Jordan's straight up asked that question. Uh, Jordan Olbin just asked Roger Goodell about Colin Kaepernet. Uh. The first thing I did was, you know, flip over to Twitter and send her a heart emoji. I never use hearts, but to hear the passion in her voice, uh to to hear the way that uh she phrased it. And then A J. Curry followed up asking him right back

after that, it just meant a lot. It meant a lot too to those of us who you know, like I said, you feel you get to this point you have to tread lightly because this is the country that we live here, and so you don't want to offend the wrong people. People talk about PC culture, but you know the people that that say that, they're the ones

that you know operate and run the culture. So what you can't do is you can't offend them, because then you don't have a job and you're you're looking somewhere else. And so for for for the Social team and talking with people, uh, you know, former employees, the folks and social they read the replies, you know, they see how the world is reacting to everything, and so I think that makes them in tune. I think in some sense

you could say it almost radicalizes them. Yeah, and I mean Steve, Steve said it to the you know, cap that media and in credit to Steve wife for you know, hosting a few of these things. And he started actually by asking Goodell about the players video, and we can we can backtrack and get into the whole story about how that happened, but he actually did start it by by asking Goodell about that. Goodell indicated that something would be coming out later that day, but he wasn't gonna

basically say it in that forum. But I remember him closing the entire a couple hours um by saying it's been about as mentally draining, you know, a week as possible, but that he was and energy, and he was inspired by by the young people not just at this company but but everywhere. Extraordinary. It was extraordinary. Patrick. You alluded to Jordan Dlbin, who we've known for years and she was on the Shield softball team. And A. J. Curry who we've worked in the next room over from us. UH,

Brendan mint Or. He he's been kind of the center of the story. He he works for the social team, and he connected with Michael Thomas. UH kind of behind the scenes and not with any um. You know, he didn't give his boss a heads up ahead of time. Was something he felt he wanted to do, was important to do because he wasn't happy with the direction the

NFL initially take. It had taken UH in the aftermath of George George Floyd and also Colin Kaepernick UM years ago now and to see these people that we know that we work with, UH, it was it was surreal when I'm watching that and seeing Jordan's talking and asking Roger Goodell about UH column Kaepernick and UM, I just

it's it really is. That's the word that keeps coming to mind is extraordinary that that we're seeing, hopefully, you know, change and and but one thing we have definitely seen, whether it's lasting change, and we're gonna find out and and you can only cross your fingers, but that this

does again feel different. This isn't something. Um. George Floyd was killed in custody two weeks ago now, and it this remains not just an important, huge, dominating story in our country, but in the NFL, and you just want to you want to see that keep coming. I would say one quick thing that I what I think all of us who were on that call, who have worked for the NFL for an extensive period of time, can feel good about. And when you talk about is this

change gonna last or not? Is that? Um? You know, here's what happened. The NFL put out the initial response and it felt very much like an NFL response. And to your point, Patrick, that all the all the people on the ground looking at the response to that, from players, UM, from fans, from people around the country who have a different perspective than the people that put together that initial message, don't know who they are. UM. It's just not acceptable.

And and the one thing I felt, um, where I felt energy on that call and you could feel it building, was that the answers were not acceptable. UM. And it's not to point fingers at the league office or any of that stuff, but Jordan answered the question. And then when when a j um I thought it came in with a second question about Kaepernick that was very clear

and very direct. Uh. It's saying we're not going to accept the same answers, and we need to ask the questions differently, or we need to ask them a second and third time. Had that not happened on that call, Um and and everything that that Brendan did too, I I mean Goodell's response, I don't know if it would have existed, but I mean at some point, um, you know, and Goodell has been troubling, you know, he's had he's had his issues through this. But UH, I do see

someone who's trying. I see someone who is trying to some degree with where he's at in life to formulate a response. And he did. Now And there's a lot of people learning slower than we want to, but I learned a lot in the last few weeks myself. I think with with in terms of the League and Roger, they're they're very insulated, uh, in terms of the things that they have access to, the people that have access

to them. One example would be when the commissioner speaks at the league meeting, UH, us in the NFL Network newsroom have no idea when he's going to speak. There's

no communication. We just have to watch a monitor. And when the commissioner runs up there and everyone thinks we have like some sort of inside it's like now it's like, you know, I'll spread to the desk and it's like the Commissioner, rogerial Hill is at the bodium set to speak, and so like I think when they hear things like when they talked about the meetings with the players coalition, um, they honestly might be hearing a lot of these things

for the very first time. UM. And so you could see it through their reaction to And this was the thing in a subsequent call that I brought up because I definitely know like all the all of the stories and the personal uh notes, I've got them, everybody has them. Um. But what I want to to try to do is is to kind of look back at what we did wrong, uh,

and why we did those things. UM. I feel like, I mean, it was obvious that a certain reaction from a certain segment of the population was prioritized, and that was the concern, um, past doing what was right or honestly evaluating the issue. Um. And while those folks are being you know, relatively quiet now uh, they're gonna be back. It's an election year. They're going to be very loud. They're still going to have a lot of money, They're gonna have a lot of influence. How is the NFL

going to react, um, when that starts happening? And and that's my question for them now. And and you know, I guess we're just gonna have to wait and see. Do you think it was answered a little bit later that afternoon because I just know the timing of you know, you asking that question on on a a second work call that was kind of falling up the first first one,

but it was more like localized uh too. You know, later that afternoon, that is when Roger Goodell releases you know, the video in response to the players video basically you know, saying black Lives matter, um, talking about you know, police brutality and basically repeating what they wanted him to repeat, with the exception of Colin you know, talking anything about Colin Kaepernick. Um, did you think that was sort of you know, a see change because he definitely there's definitely

nothing like that, um a few years ago. Well, my thing is like going from from zero to fifty is is incredible progress? Uh, it's not a hundred. You know, I think that you know, we should be happy with fifty. But the reason we wanted fifty is because we want things to be better. Uh So there's no need to be complacent with fifty. Uh we we can try to work our way, uh, you know towards one. I just I know that a lot of the people who made those decisions, uh you know that that put up the slides.

We were all that media summing where they put up the slides talking about the decline and viewership, um, and how it tied to the protests, and how that was the concern. Those people are still are still here. And I'm not I'm not clamoring for anybody's job, but I would just like to know, um, if it was a consultant who selected those consultants, Um are are they and UM you know what's what's changed for them and what priorities have changed for them? Because you know these things,

these things aren't gonna go away. It's it's not a quick fix. Part of one. One quick thing was just that I saw how Jason Reid wrote on The Undefeated today how Patrick Mahomes being part of that video really made a difference which is was interesting that that that carried some some weight. Uh in the league office. Super Bowls mean a lot. You know, he's the face of the league, uh in a lot of ways. And you know, spinning forward into September and the hope that there's a

there's a season. Uh, you just wonder what's gonna happen to fall out with Drew Brees his comments. Of course, he he made the comments about the flag. Um a huge backlash. He apologized multiple times in multiple formats. UH. But then really where the story took a huge turn then was when Donald Trump tweets Drew Brees, who they

they've had a connection together in the past. Drew Brees, you should never have apologized for uh saying what you said, which is, don't kneel um during the national anthem in protest. And then Drew Brees, Uh, in an important moment for him, replied to the President and essentially lee Um rebutted what

Trump's criticism was. I'll just read what he wrote back to Trump, we must stop stop talking about the flag and shift our attention to the real issues of systemic racial injustice, economic oppression, police brutality, and judicial and prison reform. We are at a critical juncture in our nation's history. If not now, then when we as a white community need to listen and learn from the pain and suffering of our black communities. Now spin forward to September. This

is an election year. Uh, It's gonna be obviously a high hotly contested, and it's gonna go in a lot of directions as Trump tries to get four more years. And you can imagine almost guarantee two things that players are gonna kneel, and that Trump is gonna use that

to try to inflame his base. And how does the NFL Roger Goodell, the owners who might politically align more with Trump than not, how do they react and put pressure potentially on Roger This that will have huge um ramifications in a few months if there is football played. M Well, it's already happening. I mean, Trump's come after Goodell specifically, you know since um I'm sure they're not looking to have that fight out publicly, but it was.

It was interesting with Breeze because that was his third apology essentially, and you know you did it once. He got criticized a lot for a vague apology where he uses like the clip art of the the white hand in the black hand, and if you google white hand

black hand together, it's the image that comes up. He didn't, and then he apologized the second time that day, and that one was still pretty vague too, but it was, you know, it was a little more in depth, and his wife had apologized, and it was interesting it took till that fourth the fourth time when he went to Trump where he actually started, where he addressed specifically some of I think the issues which I think, you know, people were waiting for his His his teammates were accepting

his apology, and they did a lot in house, and Sean Payton reportedly told everyone, you know, don't talk about it outside, so so we're not gonna hear too much about it. But it was interesting that that that response to Trump was the first time Freeze actually started going through and kind of addressing the specific issues of the day, rather than just sort of saying I'm sorry that I offended people. And and that's really how things should work,

right you. You you say something, people call you out on it, you evaluate um, and then you go about things and to have an opportunity to kind of confront really the the face of of these problems the president. It's um and not that these problems are exclusive to president. They were pervasive for you know, four all the way down to one before one, uh, fifty years before the first um. So it's it's it's great for Breeze that he's able to do that and they will be able

to move on. UM. In terms of, you know, how the league reacts to that, I think it really sets a foundation for how teams and owners and coaches can react to the Trump problem because, honestly, you know, it's it's been a long four years and UM, a lot of people in America I have kind of done the reading because of the president. UM, and they know more than they did in sixteen. And I think some owners

will as well. And honestly, not to get too deep into punditure here, but um, a few of these owners probably want to preserve their political ideology and hitching their wagon to Donald Trump again. Uh, they probably don't see that as the best route to do that. Um So, so I could see them having a different response. Well, I mean, you're seeing that with poll numbers across the country for the first time in a while, so that

something is is changing. There is a shift. But you know, Drew Brees also, and a lot of people ask right away, with this just simply destroy the New Orleans locker room? Um would this be repaired on any level for the Saints? And one thing about that one of the better locker rooms in the league is that you've got your your cam Jordan's and and others who went and spoke with Breeze. And I do you know for the initial response by Breeze and probably how his heart was at that time.

I do believe that people can learn if they're willing to, especially from people friends, family members, Saints. His Saints teammates are family members to him, Um that they're clearly there was a listening process that probably informed that Trump response where he wasn't there a few days ago. So I don't know. It's like if you're with with people that are, um, you know, down on Breeze overall. I mean the initial response absolutely, but are we also willing to see with everyone?

Not just growth? I mean the whole point is where will we be five years from now, um, five months from now, five weeks from now, where we'll where will all kids be? Will they see things differently that we do? And it's like it's gonna be a creekier process with people with embedded thought processes that have been in their minds for decades, and it's it's gonna be easier with young people that are sponges for justice. We and we've talked about it on this show for years before any

of this happened. Drew Brees like, what is Yeah, we don't need to even get into it, but yeah, there you can read about it. There's there's legal stuff. There's all sorts of stuff, not shocking, not shocking that it came from him versus fill in the blank other quarterback, but beyond like the legal proceedings and the situation with his mom and all that stuff, I mean, just like,

is he a genuine person? And then my first reaction when the apology first apology came was well, was this actually from some sense of a level of enlightenment or did he sit down with a PR crisis team and and pound out a statement. But then you hear more and more about the story, and like we said, it was very behind closed doors. Actually nobody had access to the Saints team meeting except for shock Attack Quille O'Neills. There that was a wild subplot in NFL history that

Shack who just happened to be scheduled. Um for this, Shack is also Shock is also a cop, by the way, just for the same they keep Jack on the zoom call. He then apparently it's very emotional. I think Peter King wrote that he couldn't report that Breeze cried in his conversation with teammates, but he may have. And then Shock spoke to the team about the importance of unity and not letting the media and social media, Oh you divide.

Here's the thing, um, the New Orleans Saints are a team of professional football players and they have been through a lot. And I guess the thing that I wanted to try to tell people is they were going to be professionals no matter what. And we all work with people that say some things and do some things where we're just like, you know what the like, what are

you talking about? And especially especially black men in America, if we were unable to work with everybody who said some flawed race stuff, then we would never be able to work. And so, like I understand, like the team huddled the Kumbaya like when again again, when I think that it may have been a little awkward, But like Michael Thomas album, Camara Marcus Davenport, like Cam Jordan's, they they'd still be pretty good football players, right, regardless of

how they felt about Trooper. Right, I thought that part of it, how it relates to football. I wasn't really even thinking or worried about that, like this is gonna be their biggest pro because I just think back to all the teams that have had Like think about the two thousand, what year is it that the year of

the Steelers first one with Ben Roethlisberger. Talk talk to how all of his offensive teammates felt about him that year as a steamrolled to a super Bowl, Like you know, it's just you know, they're out there playing and they're gonna find a way. It's also the middle of the middle of the summer and out um, but it's how do you know Shaq wasn't in a team meeting and oh four you right, he's like the Forrest Gump of unity. Yeah, we're gonna It's like, hey, we need somebody to kind

of bring a team drama into perspective. Let's go get Shaquille O'Neil, who famously got along with all of the two came out of the Peter King article. Shaq is telling these Saints players listen, then if if the media didn't break up me and Kobe, we would have won five more titles. Now, bro, how about you take a little accountability yourself. We get off track. That's um, all right, good talk, guys, that's what's happening. But there's so much happening in the NFL right now that we could have

talked another hour on that. But let's let's talk a little bit of football. I wanna talk a little football, Patrick claibn. Football. Yeah, football is good like football, speaking of the unifying agent to professional football. And you know we have uh season that continues and who knows, cessslor, I know you've been tracking this very closely. Um, who knows what can happen with COVID nineteen and a second outbreak.

Let's hope, let's hope not, let's hope this is You've been really on top of this more than anyone I know. I expect you for it, um, But well, just the hubris that somehow, because we want to go to the Westfield Mall, that this virus doesn't exist. Number numbers aren't numbers aren't great right now and like California in Texas, but I have to get my drink on and driving around town and sit under an umbrella with my girlfriends.

No not me, someone else saying that, uh, you know, that person doesn't need the coronavirus is in their way at this point, so it doesn't exist. Get on a plane of Vegas, whether you want to criticize or understand where they're coming from. There. They seem to be going full steam ahead. They said, this season is going to

happen unless so let us for the moment. Mark if you can imagine a week one in September, and with that in mind, um, with everything that's going on on the football side of things, what is like maybe an unpopular opinion that you hold something that not many people or any people would agree with. But it's not and it's not you know, some people say, oh, man, you're really gonna die on that hill. Man, you can really die on that hill. No, no, no, no, we're looking

to live hills that were ready to live on. Do you guys get it? That can see? Okay? Because we like the hill, right you know, this is this is my hill, intending to I might die on it, but I know I will conquer and live upon the hill. You're gonna slaughter everyone who tries to make you die on the hill, and you're gonna bend them to your will. It will be the hill will be your own person a little Valhalla. Look at it that one, Greg? What ill are you? I want to have here? Someone else?

Go first? Come on? You always do. I don't always do that well because I'm still you know, that's a Greg trope. I wanna it's your it's your tone, I think because I'm confused whether you know what the tone of the hill is, whether you're you're you think you might die, or is it just like a prediction that you know. I want to I want to see what you're you're setting the tone here, then that's on me because I do want to make it clear. But I also don't want to go first, because I need to

gather some thoughts. I'm saying, I see where this is going actually about, and you're willing to defend that hill when the addressors try to take it, Yeah, they're gonna storm. They're gonna storm. Like, fine, you want me to go first, I'll go first. Simply, Greg simply came up with an answer during the Philip Broadcaster. I really was curious on the tone here because to me, it's hills, aren't you know,

they're not created overnight. This has to be something that to me, it's not like, hey, I've got a bold prediction, you know the books are gonna win twelve games. No, it's got to be something that to me that I felt like for a long time, if I'm willing to die, I'm recognizing that predictions and seen into the future that could be right or that could be wrong. But I need to feel the righteousness of this belief to be willing to die. Can I just jump in one second?

Mindset purposes, Greg, You're not even willing to entertain the possibility that you would die. Well, this is where we're We're where we're different. You're here to feel it's like to connect with this too, But um, I will I'm willing to die on this particular I mean because you know, I know, I know I've died a lot. I've died in some hills over the years, but this is one that I've been tending to. I've been building and if

people want to come at me, they can. They can come at me in terms of my belief in Philip Rivers because I want to so I was gonna street because Corps is rotting on that hill. So to the hill, the hill isn't just about his career. That's that's we we know about that a lot of people on that hill.

Like a lot of arguments, you can have a both sides argument of like Eli Manning and Philip Rivers, like one side is wrong, but like you, you can make that argument that that that Philip Rivers has been part of the problem. I I look at his career and I see a guy if he was in a million other situations, um that he would be a no question

Hall of Famer. Um that his skill set and his aggressiveness and his ability um to put it on the money and not worry about it would have succeeded in so many places, so much better than a Chargers organization that never gave him the support with the offensive line and running game for about ten straight years of his prime.

And then, as someone who's starting to lose, hope to see him go to Indianapolis and go to a team that I think has a great head coach in a lot of ways, great at calling plays, great at managing his team, a great GM who I think is put a smart team around him and most importantly, a great

offensive line in front of him. Like I am willing to die on the hill, that Philip Rivers is not only going to be an asset and and carry the Colts further than they've been in a long time, but that he's gonna be a much better signing than Tom Brady Ever. Was that that Philip Rivers was the guy that with this situation with this Colts team, was the guy who was brought in this offseason that's gonna make the biggest difference. And we're gonna be talking about the

Philip river sance all all season long. So much better than Brady Um statistically or in terms of I mean, it's all We're not allowed to care about quarterback victories, so don't matter. It's all connected. He's just gonna play better. And he was a better signing, uh, in a more valuable signing to me than Tom Brady was in Tampa. Not that I'm like just trash and whatever Brady is gonna do, but I think Philip Rivers has more left in the tank and is in a great situation. Uh

maybe a better situation. Than Brady and that he's gonna outplay him this year. All right, here's my issue with because this is supposed to be a hill that you're living on, and you're just on this hill alone. I've been here and I see I see blankets everywhere, picnic baskets, It's crowded. A lot of people think what you think this this this could have well this is maybe it would have been a benefit of me not going first. Then you know you've got a problem the addition of

Tom Brady. Uh, people from the hill. Yeah, the Brady park got Brady was really what I was what I was leading to. But to me, you know, if you're gonna die on that hill, it's got to be something that's been it's been inside of you. Uh. And and that's how it pushes forward into this season. Is that is the he's better than Brady Philippers pushing forward inside of Gregg. I mean, well there's that too. Who knows, Yeah,

could have another another Rivers Patrick Hill. You're willing to live on the hill that I'm willing to live on. It should have been pretty obvious to anybody, um that you're watching a game and a team scores a couple of touchdowns, and it's early on. Somebody on the broadcast

team says, well, folks, they've forgot all the momentum. And then, of course what happens, whether it's the Kansas City Chiefs or the Buffalo Bills or anyone, uh, the other team comes back and leaves you wondering what the hell was the point of this quote unquote momentum, This all seeing, all knowing force that surrounds us and penetrates us and binds football together. Um momentum does not exist. It is a figment of our imagination. If you want to call

it good vibes, call it good vibes. But there is no force that gives you a boost. It just doesn't happen. You want points, You would like to put points on the scoreboard. This metaphysical will to win, blah blah blah, platitude, shmatitude. It just it's fake. It's fake. We're human beings. Uh we we we live to see patterns um as my child storms in the garage. But it's it's a survival thing. We want to try to make everything makes sense. Everything

isn't always gonna make sense. It's just it's not real. It's it's made up. Stop it. Patrick. One question when when this score was twenty three, Hey, and I was writing my article about the Falcon the Patriots defense letting the team down and with every passing moment sitting in that stadium. Now, I'm not for against your theory necessarily, but you could feel, because we were sitting on the Falcon side of the field with their fans, that contingent

starting to slowly grow more silent by the minute. Um. But on the field, the Patriots, their body language, their energy was shifting and changing and suddenly coming into full bloom. Was the most apocalyptic loss by any team in the Super Bowl ever. Uh. And I don't know if it just happened, because you know, the xs and os matched up, and I mean, it did feel to me that at

some point teams are broken. And when they went into overtime, I would have bet um all my possessions, which are not much, that the Falcons were not winning that game. And I don't know if it's momentum or if it's just I'm feeling something. What say you example? Before Patrick responds to follow up example, it's been to this past playoff season where the Tennessee Titans and nine and seven outfit that nobody despite you know, mega games made in

the post Hannehill world. All right, maybe they can go up to New England and win, and in fact they did and that was nice. But guess what that momentum momentum maybe is the wrong word, and yeah, when we're gonna welcome to the hill, dn uh. Confidence. Confidence is

a thing teams, players, teams, anything in your life. Confidence can help drive you forward and for the instant, For the example of the Titans, the confidence gained beating the Patriots New England, that confidence slash, momentum, whatever you wanna call it, I believe absolutely played in a role in them going to Baltimore the next week and doing what they did to the Ravens. What say you? I think the Titans were a good football team and they made place and they won the game based on the plays

that they made. Uh. I think that's what happened there and market with the Super Bowl. Um, if momentum was real, then why didn't the Falcons win the Super Bowl? Well, I because here's one thing I do, come back, Here's one one thing I totally agree with you on. When I see a team and like end the first quarter, it's seventeen nothing, You're like, whoa, there's way to the Momentum doesn't mean once you've captured it earlier in the

game that you roll with it. I think it shifts like an ocean and the Patriots caught a wave that took him to shore. That's what I'd say. What momentum is depends on what the result is, and we can apply it after the fact. So so it always exists and it explains every win and every single loss. So claib claibon. This is the second podcast he's he's really been going on about this lately. He was ready, Yeah, he was, he was. He was on the Saints Twitter podcast.

People should check it out. That boy Wolf. It was a great It was a really great episode. Um My buddy Adam and and they talked about this and the one only retorts the momentum I had two is well, there is something that like feeling more and more confident um maybe as things are going well for you, and

and that can be helpful. But to answer let's say the Falcons thing, I guess I do still just believe and I know it's not the world that happened, but when you go watch that game in the final seven or eight minutes, that all of those that there were seven, eight, ten plays where if it had been a split second different, or if a Falcons player had done things something a little bit better than the game was right. That those right, that those things just could have they could have happened.

They didn't happen, but that was up to the player on the field, and it didn't happen. And then if just one of those happens, then we're never talking about momentum or anything like that. Right dance that on this hill? Oh no, I'm actually I was. That's kind of a little devil's advocating, But um, I was more taken back by that. Patrick spun it too. Momentum, which is interesting and it's a good it's a good way to make sag,

you know. Well, like because the place that jumps out to me the most is in college football, where they're they're always talking about it and we're always doing this booth psychoanalysis of nineteen year olds and it's like, well, here's what these nineteen year olds were thinking. Nineteen year olds have no idea what they're thinking because they're nineteen.

It just that they don't know, and you don't know whether you would you hate, you would hate the you would hate to be a huge pro tennis fan as I am, and listened to half that the trash analysis, which is all about momentum and mental and never like mentioning, and it's it's trash, all right. So let me go next, and I'll the conceit in my mind. In my mind of this segment was you have to be alone on the hill. Greg has a whole whole like subdivision of

people with him on the Philip Rivers. Is gonna be good Hill Clay By the momentum thing, I don't know, I don't even know what to make sense of it, but there's probably people that definitely agree with you and are on that hill with you. But how about this for a hill that I'm alone on and I'm not afraid to live? Is that Derek Carr is gonna be getting m v P buzz by November, if uh, if we indeed play football. Because first of all, we you know you down we use this as the Baker Mayfield

explanation why he's gonna be fine. I've seen it before, Okay, we we said that with Mayfield. Well, then why can't we say the same thing with Car that I know it's it's been a few years in the review mirror, but he's still you know, I think he's nine years old, and I think what they've been building in Oakland and now Las Vegas is an offense that ultimately can really take a step up here in year two with Gruden.

And I speak not just the Henry Ruggs, um the Alabama star wide receiver who was the first wide out off the board in the draft, but you kind of look at the roster um Josh Jacobs who probably should have won Offensive Rookie of the Year last year, Tyrelle Williams, who is a very solid receiver, Hunter, Renfro, Greg you know, I know Greg has had his issues, but he he really made strides as a first year player. Darren Waller broke out as the most productive wide receiver in the

league just about last season. I think that with Gruden year to Car, year to Mike Lennon, is he still the guy installed as the principal back up there. I think that was good for the head of the headset space of Derek Carr, who seems like a guy who could be a little bit emotional and maybe would be negatively impacted by Cam Newton on him, Mariota there who,

Mike Mayocky, Mike lenn thank you very much. Milen still recovering from the fire he took from a Keen Hicks over the week that that the concept that the backup can be too good and it makes your start or sad. It could have been another hill that I would have died. Well. I believe that though I think some guys are mentally tougher than others, and um Car, I'm not gonna call him not mentally tough, but he's somebody who reads everything

and sees everything. Um So, anyway, put it together. I always thought the Car had a quality skill set and I just like him in year two in this offense with better playmakers around him, I think the Raiders are gonna be better this year. I really think they have a chance to contend. And I'm not saying he's anything close to Patrick Mahomes or um Lamar Jackson or insert

QB here. I just think he's gonna put up numbers that it's gonna be like remember when like Jared Goff was getting a little m v P buzz a couple of years ago, and it wasn't really serious, but it was like, well, you can't deny the fact that this team is in first place and he's putting up huge numbers. That's kind of what I mean by m v P buzz. Yeah, it's already happened for Derek Carr. I love when people bring back that thes in. I think it was when it's like, hey, it's like Derek Carr was in the

m v periods. Yeah, like, if you weren't watching the games, he wasn't one of the five best quarterbacks in the league of that year. Either. That's important. That's a distinction that I'm making here that I don't want you to think that I think he's going to be actually worthy of an m VP selection, but he's gonna be putting up numbers that are at a Pro Bowl level that uh, he's gonna be helping this team at people are talking

about get Marcus Mariota in there. I think there are cars gonna be not good but very good this year, uh, for the Las Vegas Raiders, and I'm ready to live on that. Wow, I think you're not. I think it's fair to say that there aren't a lot of people, Um, you know, crowding your body while you lie out on your you know, Matt's sunning yourself on that hill. You're there's not a lot of people there with you. They're all in the you know, they're all in the casino.

That's fine, But I mean we're I don't think we're looking at Raiders fans. Is the acid test of whether this theory from Raiders fans are wearing masks? Greg Right, I would like to know what Derek Carr does that is special. Um, But but do I think he can have a good season based on what's around him? Yes, And I think it's probably a contingent on what's around him. I think to be in the m v P conversation,

i'd have to go look. Maybe I could pull up the d v o A from nineteen The Raiders were a second to last in terms of defensive d v o A. Uh, they're gonna need to be better if we're gonna be talking about the Raiders, which would mean we were talking about Derek Carr on the defensive side. I thought he had an okay year last year. They

couldn't stop anybody. Uh, they weren't a very super watchable football team other than that, But I could I mean, like you said, Uh, Mark, there's there's a few people there like if if what Dan is saying is that there's this Andy Dalton possibility, Uh yeah, I could see that kind of season for for Derek. On it this way, I would not be stunned. If we're talking about um come New Year's Day, Derek Carr, you know, four thousand yards passing, thirty two thirty four touchdowns. Interceptions are low

because he's always been good at protecting the ball. So let's say about you know, twelve interceptions, passer rating around one hundred. That type of year that maybe on paper looks better than what a football head actually believes about him as a player. But when you're talking about the m v p um, as Mark points out often almost as often as he talks about COVID nineteen and tracking that disease, is that it's narrative driven. And this idea that the Raiders are head into the playoffs and cars

had come off as best season ever. I just see that. I see that all is possible. That's it. That's my hill. I didn't know you were so conssionate about Derek. You know, I see does it come off as passionate or just that's kind of just you're if you're you guys, I always you have to find a hill where two other people aren't right, Well, you have to be willing to die.

It's it's tough to like, he gets m v P love, but he's actually not that good and he you know, he's he's great, but he's not mentally strong enough to deal with like a decent quarterback. It's a little needle here you're trying to thread. You put in a position to die on the hill with like the strays you it's gonna have an MVP season. You know Greg ever resurrected his QB Index, it would be Greg would have

him as number ten at the end of the season. Okay, you know what I thought, Well, you know West might be taking over QB index this year. There that might be some breaking news where you we'll see the some some sources saying that this year I sat down West lest year. That should be something you're doing. You know, I feel like I should take some credit for that. Well,

that's that turned quickly, mark your turn. Well, I also believe that that the narrative driven um aspect of football is stronger than ever, and especially with these awards they hand out. Um, but there are times when it makes sense to give someone an award when they've done something remarkable. Um, and I'm talking about I am telling you right now, you are willing to throw sandwiches this way in reverse of me that the coach of the year. Give me

a break with Bruce arians and all. It's everyone's already got all these awards just handed out. Is going to be Zach Taylor of the Cincinnati Bengals. I'm living on that hill because I'm will tell you something else that's going on here is that the corpses over sweet Well, you know you you want me to pick something that's that half the half of America agrees with? Or do you want something the exercise? Well, I'm starting to believe

it more and more, and there is the paranoia. Can I speak for one minute without Greg and Dan interjecting fourteen times with the own I won't you offer your opinion? Now? Dan and Gregg get it out of the way, Okay, Um, well out of the way. It's just I have no comment. I love this hill because previously you've kind of been on the can anyone in America name Zach Taylor? Can anyone tell me anything that he did? For my exploration?

The narrative is perfect because as of instead of everyone just saying, we know that Bruce Arians is, He's won it twice, He's gonna go twelve and four with the with the Bucks. It's a nice story, and just give it to Bruce Arians or give it to fill in the blank. I'll give it to John Harbaugh. Just here comes someone that if I had to ask any of you to write down to the defining traits about Zach Taylor right now, you'd be lying. If you wrote anything.

You have no idea who he is? Now what the number one thing that helps a team that doesn't have the best coach win coach of the year is a worst to first or a worst to playoff scenario. They are two and fourteen. A season ago, the team was, I mean, they made vanilla look like the most exciting flavor at the ice cream stand if that's where they're selling the ice cream. So now you go to and fourteen, Joe Burrow is going to come in part of these

are there's some contingencies here? Oh this coach you had to deal with U, you know, getting a rookie quarterback ready during a Corona time. And now I know everyone says we're gonna roll back into these complexes four days from now and everyone's gonna be sweating on top of each other. But we'll see how that plays out there. May it may not be quite that easy. There is a roster in the Bengals roster both sides of the

ball is serviceable to quality. Um there is if you look at their offense and I have some issues with the offensive line, you could look at a team that with seven playoff teams, Yes, the Bengals could hop scotch a team like Cleveland that is just as a shaky deal as we and and part of me real fear is I think that the whole juror Joe Burrow Bengals thing might just simply replace all the Browns hype, and then the Browns could be a big, big mess From a year and a year from now, the Bengals could

sneak into the playoffs. They go ten and six, eleven and five. Zach Taylor along the way, we'll have all these fluffy thing pieces written about him. Uh, probably by some people we know, maybe by me who knows, and then by the by season's end, he is the perfect candidate to take a two and fourteen team with the most exciting rookie quarterback that we've seen in a long time.

They go ten and six, they sneak into the playoffs, maybe they pull one of these Rex Ryan deals where that Jets team in two thousand and nine played the Bengals in weeks seventeen and the Bengals team going into the playoffs that slept. That Jet team had one of the best defenses of the decade. Though they had a tear, they had they had a good running game. I'm just saying, but a lot, a lot a lot of people were saying the Jets were a playoff team. Then I'm not

really comparing them to that Jets team either. It's a different deal. But I'm on a hill. You asked me to go on a hill. I'm on a hill with Zach Taylor and a playoff Bengals team. I don't see any of you hanging around next to me. I'm concerned that that you're gonna die on the hill, like of starvation. There's not a lot of infrastructure on this hill, and I don't know that there's gonna be a lot of people that are like, come to fight you and then

you could kill them and steal their rations. Um. Well, this has been a this has been a This has been a year of movements, um, of a polar shift of change. And the Bengals have been the most boring thing in professional football outside of the Detroit Lions for a long time. And it's all gonna change. And the narratives, so you're not going to even be able to handle the narratives by late September. You're not gonna even be able to handle them. I hope you're right, um, because

that would be cool for Cincinnati, would be good at football. Again, my my biggest concern, and Mark, you and I both fans of franchises that have been historically inept, especially in the last couple of decades. Cincinnati is right in that group. So typically these organizations don't have these like Eureka moments where all of a sudden they go from zero to hero.

And for that reason, I have concerns that Cincinnati will be the feel good story just because a lot of these bad teams that aren't run well tend to stay that way for a reason. But you are right, and what you're saying about there is talent on the roster, and the quarterback could be special. Zach Taylor, of course, is we've talked on the show is a complete unknown. Zach Taylor is that when a given a horrible team and no chance to win, his team won't win. That's

what else. Yeah, and he's a very tall man. He's about six three. He stands out I would I thought he was like five eleven or something. He I like him, I like I've talked about it, but when we did that coaches on Breakfast, I like the kind of you know. I like the way he handles himself. I think he I could see why how he could walk into an interview room and impress everyone. He does. He's not ostentatious,

but I think he's confident in what he does. And I think we've talked about the talent around Joe Bury is awesome. But they remind me a little bit of the Browns in that a terrible offensive line without really a plan to fix it could ruin one of the best skill position groups in the league. And I think the Bengals could be that. I mean, if you look at their top six seven skill guys and the receivers.

It's awesome. And Joe Mixon is playing awesome too, and Jioe Bernard and like, but they have a pretty bad offensive line that that they're just hoping they get, you know, a top ten pick in Joa Williams back and everything, uh, everything I see, like way, it's nighttime on my hill and in the you know, about three miles away, there's a little campfire burning and Greg is a little sleepy bag and he's taking his way up to the hill. He's camping out the narrative. Here's where Zach Taylor fits.

You're right, It's like there was no room on my hill. It was overpopulated. Voters. Voters love the the team that is not really that good but wins nine or ten games and giving that coach of the year over just like an awesome coach. Like this is how Dick Giron one UH coach of the year. This is how Jim has Lit one coach of the year. This is how Matt Naggy one coach of the year, Mike Smith, you

know what I mean. Like that, there's a lot of those types of things and then they fall right back and like you could see that if they are able to somehow scratch out ten wins, they're gonna need the defense to do a lot. And you know, it's a good thing about these hills right now, when it is quiet, when the sun goes down and you're alone with your thoughts because of the COVID, you want to try to look at optimists viewpoints sometimes. You know, in a decrease

in pollution, we could see those stars in the sky. Yeah, we we are the virus. Alright. Good conversation, nice talk everybody, really good stuff. Um hey, Ricky, where are you at? There's how are you? How's life? It's good? How are you guys? Great talk today? That was nice combo. What's going on right? Oh? You are Hollywood? Yeah, it's cool. Did you see how many people showed up to Hollywood yesterday? It's it's so awesome. It's we gotta keep doing it.

Stuff's happening and it's it's so great. Um yea Erica. It's time to spin the wheel, the wheel of team, as we've done every week, uh for about a month now, we are picking one team to talk about on the Wednesday episode of the Around the NFL podcast. Last week we did a deep dive on the Tennessee Titans. We've also talked about the Giants and the Cardinals and now Claibon, we're gonna spin the wheel once more. Where does this rank in terms of like greatest moments of your broadcasting career?

Up there? Um? Probably like, uh, there are a few like Jerry Jones statements that I had to read in their entirety uh and uh I died a little on the inside. Those those are all in the top five. This is number six. The best thing I think we talked about in this podcast. But Cesler and I when we were working on the edit news desk when he had to transcribe, nobody better than transcribe than from Jaral because he talks so slow and deliberately. No problem getting

every word of a statement from well. But to be fair Dan, he also um, if you and I wonder if this is if Patrick has noticed this when you read Jerry Jones begins a thought and then he'll branch off into another thought mid sentence, and then a third thought and a fourth thought. Um, and never really circle back around to close to put a pin on any of them. So transcribing it feels not unlike um, a dangerously uh potent acid trip there in the middle of

the news room. It's a word salad vortex. All right, let us in the wheel, Ricky, let her rip. Whoa, there are the Las Vegas Raiders. How about that's interesting? So the Raiders are the next choice? Um on, are are the next election in our ongoing series? How about that? We gotta think about who do we want to talk to connected to the Raiders? That will be I'm sure our old friend Mike Mayok would want to jump right on and spend minutes with us. You're Mike, He'll come on.

I mean if Claibon can do uh over an hour, you know, right after the birth of his daughter here, I know where it can't be popular in your house right now as we continue to to honk on here, Mayok can come on? Please? Yeah, if I can shirk my responsibilities as a father and a husband, been working at Mike Mayock jump on a podcast alright. That is our official ask out to you as our producers, to reach out the Raiders organization, to get Mayak and if

we don't get them, we'll figure out somebody else. Patrick. Yes, we can't keep you any longer because you came, you spoke as always a man, a bastion of both insight and integrity, and we thank you. Hey, I just thank you guys. I know like there's a lot of people that you know I have reached out to me on Twitter, and I know that there's a lot of people that wouldn't have reached out to me or even known I existed if not for you guys bringing me on this

podcast too to ramble occasionally. And so I appreciate you all as well. I think you are probably you're definitely gotta be sixth all time and appearances on this show. There's the four of us, there's Colleen. I would imagine has to be fifth, and I think you gotta be six. Let's do it, well, you gotta be the six. Put

him second because second, yeah, isn't done. Rex Ryan have that Mark Sanchez tattoo like of his wife and with the number six, I'm like, I could get that exact tattoo, and I think it would be kind of thematic about relationships. Do that today. You can pass Colleen too. I think you're gunning for He's literally trying to stand up, stop talking to them, and he's like, is trying to get up.

When when Mark was was on his hill, the Lauren and Malcolm came in here and they opened the cat door and the cat came in the garage when the gross doors open and I don't want the cats you have they have one one two cats are two cats, and take it off. He's got to get out of here. But but yeah, like we're having a stair off right now. He's like, I'm gonna I'm gonna leave. I'm gonna get out of here. So we don't want too, so we're gonna let you go right now. Thank you again. Great

great to hear from you. This is Dan hands As signing off for Quiet Storm, the mail Man, Patch and Clavon and the Great Ricky Hollywood from West Hollywood until wend. They