OVERLY ESOTERIC DIVISION POWER RANKINGS

And it feels like you're feeling the effects of whatever happened last night. This song that was getting me ready, Connie. Connie Fox is definitely here, Colleen Wolf did not. Can I know she is? Can I offer some unsolicited advice? Colleen? And we know? And we thank you so much because Colleen is in Philadelphia, her hometown, as part of her spin across the country for training camp coverage with NFL Network. And and I understand it. You've been meeting up with friends,

You've been getting a little loose. Um. Connie Fox is tagged in for Colleen Wolf today. What what I would suggest is when Tugboat text you and says, hey, do you want to come on the show? Just say no. Just say no, and just assume that whatever you have going on later in the week is gonna make today very difficult for you, and nobody's gonna have an issue with it, um, because I hate to see you like this. I feel ready to go, ready to rock. Um. I'm in Philly, yes, and I got two three days um

between inside training camp shows. So I met up with some friends and let loose a little bit. And now I'm picking up all of the pieces this morning, so I will I'm ready to go. I will offer to you that you know, for behind the scenes, we do a lot of texting, um, sometimes not a lot before

the show to plant out. And I would say that Connie got pulled into one of the heavier um nights of texting and planning and questions around the show ever, and you can kind of just feel the aura of like, why the F did I say yes to this potential non paid assignment. Well, I thought that, like I was just gonna pop on. We're hanging out, it's light, it's training camp, it's like still like not crazy busy yet.

But and then I realized that I was going to be in like seventeen different cities, and this was my one off day and I woke up this morning to do a lot of maths. So thanks Dan, Well, this is yeah, you picked a really great episode to accidentally um say yes to, because this episode will be covering the overly esoteric division power rankings UM which what is that emphasis on? What's that emphasis? So that is odd per odd per if there can be UM D V

O A and all these other words and abbreviations. That's a big one, all these things that everybody's pat themselves on the back. Look how special I am. I made my own little thing, and now it's becoming industry standard. Well guess what odd per is here? The overly esoteric division power rankings. And yet I did I did. It's some somewhat of a homework assignment. I gave each of the heroes here, and it's I did the same work and then so so it's not like I'm just the

the teacher who's checked out emotionally. And then you do all this work and then you come in and I'm like, all right, we're watching a movie, and you pop a video and the and the VCR and I take a nap at my desk. That sounds so nice that it's just, you know, we I asked team for team. I gave you a whole list of how to break down each team, and then I took those numbers that you sent back to me. And that's very dangerous because you put a

lot of math in my hands. And I figured out the division power rankings in the NFL entering one and we will get into that later today. I'm excited and I was really interested the results some interesting stuff. Math usually not you're you're strong suit famously, you know, struggled in a state mandated test. I got a thirty nine once in a state mandated math test in But here's the thing about the old jus are numbers. I kind

of love them. I have a difficult relationship with numbers because they don't love me, but I love them and I love what they tell you because they kind of reveal a lot, not just about these teams, but I learned a lot about you guys studying your Excel spreadsheets. I like that you're wielding around a mug right now as you as you talk about math, and I don't

really believe any word you're saying. About how much you love math, and I honestly have a lot of mistrust in this segment now considering that you've added up all of the scores, yankes, how is how is your first week on the road college? Because I know, um, yeah, we've all we we've heard this from our listeners, like it's not having West here has has been on everyone's mind kind of as the season is cranking up today. Today's actually the six month um, you know, anniversary of

him dying, um and that that stuff. I know, we like sort of felt that weight going into it, like fight feeling like a little ambivalent maybe going into training camp of like what does what does this mean? Right now? We're not totally feeling up for it. I'm curious, like how you how you're doing, because actually getting in the flow I think feels good. I think I think I'm

thinking of West last year. He was never more like ambivalent about football in his entire life and talked about it a lot, uh going into the season, but once once it started, it actually sustained him quite a bit, like and he was totally happy to sort of lose himself in just the season, which we are all like such seasonal people at this point, we are seasonal people.

Uh you, Well, so it's it's interesting to bring this up because I had texted you, and I think I texted Sessler too, I was texting Keisha, and I was just really um. There was a part of me that really felt anxious about coming into the season, and I think it was a lot of it was just like not having West here and coming into the it just like after everything happened I've I felt like I just wanted to take my hands off the wheel completely and

unplugged and check out. And then as each like week went by and it got closer and closer to training camp, I was just going through team by team and it just didn't feel as important as it had um before. And like after losing West, it just kind of felt I was like, none of this is like. It just felt like I wanted to spend more time with you guys. I wanted to spend more time like hanging out. I wanted to spend more time with my family. I didn't want to just sit around and be pouring over every

single team like I normally do every year. But then once I finally got to the training camps and started getting into every single doing the shows and going through all of the stuff that you have to do to put these shows on the air. I got it. I got more excited about everything. And now that I'm in it, I feel like I'm just I've completely jumped in and immersed myself in it. At better, a lot better. Now

this is us hanging out um right now. I mean Keisha, I know, wants to like thank all the listeners, and she will when we can can all get together, but I appreciate the listeners reach out and telling us like they're thinking of them. I mentioned on the TV show

how I listened to this podcast. It was the DFS Rise and Fall podcast, and Keisha like couraged me to listen to that, and it was it was Chris and and I hadn't mentioned on the pod, and he had really pointed it out that it was this meaningful pot

um and it was. It was hard. It was hard to listen to it, of course, UM, but it also like Keisha's taught me a lot um throughout this whole process, you know, like celebrating Um and keeping his name alive and hearing his voice was honestly, it was it's like beyond words, like what it meant like you feel everything at once, but it was also nice, like it felt like being in Tybee and felt like being close to him and doing the football on us, Like that's part

of the reason why I'm really looking forward to getting back together like all four of us, um and inside a podcast studio and doing like it's gonna be hard, but it also like, I don't know, that's that's how we keep to me, like celebrating them and hearing his words and stuff. It was a great way to sort

of keep keep him alive and close to us. I don't know, it's it's I think it's on all our minds, isn't it really this season because we're going through this all for the first time this season, Really we're starting over. That's how it feels to me and Um. And when you start over, it's just like when we began the podcast together in two thousand thirteen. And I'm only speaking right now from a show perspective, but in a lot

of ways, like just our relationships together. UM, it's kind of a reset and that that comes with some bumpy times and and also it's you know, this is this is tricky stuff. Um. Without West, here we went through last season without Chris for the most part, with the exception of those Sunday nights that he gave us, which were, you know, let's face it, heroic, and UM, I'm so happy that we had those those last shows together with him. But of course this is totally different. This is to

do to go into a new season without Chris at all. Um, it's weird and it's um, it's one of those and texting Keisha last week, there's nowhere to go but forward. You just gotta you can't. You know, you remember West, but you also know that you can't. You can't just stay where you are and stay looking back. And that's that's kind of where I'm at right now, where we're trying to figure out the next step for the show, UM without West because Frankly and I think you know,

we've all had this conversation or thought it. You know, we don't know what the show is without West. So the part of what this spring and summer has been about is just trying to figure out how this even works anymore. UM. And then there's the obviously the human friendship component, family component of him not being around anymore, which is still very strange. UM and I'll catch myself at numerous points, Um every week where I'm just like, wait, he's actually gone. It's it's part of it's part of

this whole process. I mean, I would just say briefly that for me, it's like it's completely starting over, um from a football angle. And you know, like most of my memories football wise are not with my family, for instance, because we're always together during most of football stuff. They're they're largely like inundated with West and West is UM's and West comments. And I mean even with the preseason,

his disdain. For most of the preseason, I remember sitting beside him, you know, and NFL dot now and like the would sit there for seven straight hours like covering these games, and like it was mostly just him and I talking, you know, and Um, like I don't think we're all in the same place in terms of our verve. Like I'm just being completely honest and as you have to kind of fake it till you make it a little bit. And I don't have like a tingling in

my loins to watch like Cowboys Steelers tonight. But I think once it starts, then it starts, and you just get back into it. But Um, it just won't be the same without a friend. It's just never will It's like, you know, you talk to people who spent their whole lives watching football with their dads and when they're if their dads are suddenly not around, like the sport will never be the same. That's what I would compare it to. Yeah, it's honestly, like it's hard to even like talk about

him without completely falling apart. Still, so that's been really hard, it is, and and I and I only I want to bring it up in some level because like I I do, we do hear from the listeners, and I think like that's important just to let them know, like of course we're thinking about him all the time, and we we know that you guys are too, like not only listeners that had all these DM conversations with him, and believe me, there's really you know, had meaningful relationships

in that way, but just listening, Um, that's a meaningful relationship and like we we know like they're going through it too, and it's on everyone's mind. And especially yeah, I think with with the season started, with training camp starting, um, it's kind of I told TSA this, like her kind of sharing like on her I G stories and stuff like that. Like it's helped me because I'm not someone who it would be my inclination to like share that

sort of stuff. Um, but her sharing as like help helped me a lot to just hearing about it because it's totally normal what we're you know, what we're going through, we're gonna continue going through. It's starting over. But it's also like he will always be without you know, as you mentioned, like he'll always he built this podcast up with us, and that that's part of it. And we're never gonna it's not like we're ever gonna forget him. Um, Like on the shows that we don't talk about him,

he's always on our mind and in the best ways. Dammit, Greig, I'm so sorry. I know I can't. This is our time together, honestly, is our time on air. We you know, on on some level. Um. That's that was such a big, big part of it too, especially with the listeners. I do think about the listeners too, because look a lot of them ducked out. I think after after West died too, and maybe you're coming back now or that's just like

a natural flow of things too. And um, and so I just you know, we we see them out there too. We know, we know it's not we do and we we love the listeners because they've been so supportive of us during this whole process, and it's been a difficult one. There was one listener that um on our subreddit said that I look terrible in a baseball hat. I don't know if I love that. I don't. I don't know who that was. I don't know if I feel total love for that person? Still why I never read the

reddit ever, ever read the reddit. I responded to it on the subrect You did, you'd responded. At a certain point, a subreddit graduates too. It's it's not something the people that are the focus of the subred should be looking at, because it's it becomes the fans and anything that you look at and you upsets you becomes it's kind of on you at a certain point, like a guy saying

you look bad in a hat. I mean you're not, Dan, see that, Dan, the way that I'm built like I I understand what you're saying and you're correct, but that will affect me. It was like an erraw that got shot at. Dan had to call me. Dan called me and was like, you need to stop looking at the reddit. Number one, they all hate you. Number two, It's not going to help the show. I did not say they all hate you, but but they do. I mean on Reddit. Yeah, I'm like talk about you look bad in a hat,

Like try put on my hat for a day. Mark, No, I don't doubt that. Why are they coming to me now? That feels unnecessary, but just because you guys are all being emotional and I just like love you and you're my family, and like, I'm so thankful for Wes and I think you know he's brought us even closer than we could have ever been. So Mark, I love you and you look stupid in a hat, Like I honestly ask you that question now, Like like next time we're

hanging out, I'm gonna wear one. You look good. I think you've been you Lyn looking different lately, and it's like a new fun Mark. He's like a little wild. I know you guys have been like watching The White Lotus and it almost reminds me of the hotel manager in the Whiteice, Like you don't know what's coming next with this guy. Interesting comparison, Greg, I'm very pro baseball hat, so I think you should continue doing that. Do your

own thing. Who cares. My favorite Marc Ses baseball hat is the one that he went to like the the promenade in Santa Monica and got his initials MONOGRAMM don the hat and then or for two straight years I lost that hat. But you're right, that was an odd move. All right, let's do the news. Hello, and welcome to the new West Coast home of the NFL. I'm colleague Woolf and it is my sincere pleasure to introduce you. They made me saying I had no choice, and they

made me do like seven different times. I can't all right for the listeners, though, did they make you do finger bombs pointing downwards at the same time as you said well to the future. Everyone needs to know that. Um this is a couple of months ago promotional. It might have been in house promotional video introducing the new

Hollywood Park facility. Um too, I guess people that will be working there, and and it got sent my way and immediately I wanted to play it all on the show, and I believe Eric was like, yeah, let's just hold off because I don't know if it's for like public consumption. And I still don't know if it's necessarily clear, but it's it's so amazing, and so many Ricky hit me with more. I just can't get enough of it. Collegium ever seen, Yes, yes, yes, yes, I knew it. I

knew this was going to happen. I kept saying, how do we do it this way? And then they would let me do it my own way, and then they just kept all of the lines that they wanted that where I was like, well, this doesn't really work and I wouldn't normally say that. Where are they playing this? Is this on a video like board of every on and he totally buys into the message, so he's going to just play this. This is the This is a

terrible day for me. You know what, I won't I won't play anymore, not just getting give me another one? Almost magical, and the possibilities for brand partnerships almost endless, so so so so so so so everyone out there needs to know that I hate, hate, hate, hate seeing myself on TV and I hate hearing the sound of my voice. So this is like a double whammy because like, I know that that's cheesy, and you're give me watching

it and listen to it. So this is horrendous, Dan, all right, No, it had to be from like middle management corpor types. Right, you're saying it was horrible, But honestly, I've never been more excited about brand stuff and Super Bowl fifty six, which works out word for us and you because two hundred and fifty five ft away from SO five Stadium, right here is the new headquarters of NFL media. Fans will fall in love with football in a powerful new way, and they'll do it right here.

Only question, now, where will you be? Why did I say yes to doing this show today? Permission just to log off at this point. That's enough. The last two felt gratuitous, like at that point it felt like too much. On the other hand, you know, for our listeners at one point they showed Colleen was on a big screen over our entire workplace. On some level, it it is. You have to admit it's cool that Colleen is the person that they chose for that. Like you, you are

the face, you're becoming the face of NFL media. They're not having You're not having me do that, you know what I mean, They're not they're they're not they're not called I don't know why they wouldn't have picked you, Gregg. That's that is. Every person who has seen this since has given me so much he about it. So you guys aren't the first, and you won't be the last. So I'm glad we're doing this here. Let's just get it out there. Let's just get in front of it

right now. So I colly and I sincerely apologize. I just could not help myself. Great work. Let's get into the news. Philip Rivers. Remember a few months back, um, maybe it was like two months ago, there was that clip of him working with his high school team. Where is he Alabama? Yeah? St. Michael Catholic High School in

Alabama and he's the head coach there. And we saw the clip of him doing his thing on the sideline and we all reminisced about how great it was that Philip Rivers in our lives for so long, and it just seemed like he was in a great place in his life. Well, he already hates high school coaching. This is how I'm doing this, and he he needs to be in the spotlight. He needs more money. So that's why Phil Rivers has said he does not rule out returning to the NFL. In December or January, Greg, I mean,

when is it enough enough? I mean, this is so disrespectfully, so not just to Philip Rivers, which of course it is, you're twisting his words, but to Sam Farmer, the Los Angeles Times reporter, the venerable Sam Farmer, who pointed out repeatedly how much Philip Rivers loves high coaching high school football. How Rivers, but the season's gotta be by like December. You know, you got the playoffs around Thanksgiving or whatever, and he could be free after that. And uh, this

happens with a lot of guys who retired. Training camp starts and they start feeling that that juice again. And I just say, bring it on, Like I feel a little bit of anxiety about it because he I thought he ended about as well as he could have. Um, but bring bring on Philip Rivers taking over for some injured quarterback. Hopefully it's it's in Indianapolis. It's perfect right at ending ending his career with the first round playoff loss was pretty pretty okay. He outplayed Josh Allen in

that game. He played a terrific game. It was just it was kind of a perfect ending for him where he played well, and it's like he had a good season. It was about as good as you normally got. I just kid, because I know how much you love him. You love Philip Rivers more than maybe your own children. So I just needed to give a little um tart with the suite. That's all. That's all. It would be

cool if he showed up again. I don't know, Conny, do you think do you think Philip Rivers showing up in December January for a team that is in an emergency quarterback situation? How would that even work? And by the way, he's already said he's lost a bunch of weight because he's not in that training schedule. I see what you're saying, Greg, with the anxiety. Would you like to see it happened? Colleen? Do you think he should

stay where he is? I'm picturing, like for anyone who watches Ted Lasso, Roy Kent who retired and now he's coaching, uh, like a kid's look. I think he's coaching a girl's football team, so he's like a very ordinary character. And I'm picturing, uh, Philip Rivers, like a different side of him that we've never seen before is coming out now that he's not uh in the NFL anymore, and he's coaching at a high school level, saying Michael Catholic High School and Fair Hope, Alabama. But I think that, uh,

you know what, bring him back. I love a little bit of drama. Let's see, uh, let's see what he can do. He said that he wouldn't have made weight if he reported last week, and that he's he's lifting and running now, so let's see if he can get back at it. I would like, let's say Justin Herbert like stubbed his toe, nothing serious, but out for the wild card round. Rivers comes in Drew Bledsoe like the year they won the Super Bowl, and wins a playoff game for the Chargers and then hands it back off

to Justin Herbert comes in for one game. I don't think we need seven weeks of Philip Rivers, but just comes in and does something heroic and then really rides

off into the sunset. I can see it, like he's the type of guy, especially last season, you would think maybe the wheels are to come flying off, and maybe he throws a couple of ducks earlier in the game and you're like, oh boy, and then all of a sudden flash forward late in the fourth quarter and it's and he has the ball at midfield, Like I could totally see Rivers doing something special like that. Um, I feel like the Colts probably won't be around by December

though at this rate. And I didn't trust them with with Carson Wentz. And now if Carson Wentz is limited, Quentin Nelson since we last tape, is out for five to twelve weeks somehow, with the exact same bone injury, which is bizarre that supposedly he's had since high school or since birth. Perhaps they both have the same bone defect and had the exact same surgery with the same bizarre five to twelve week timeline. Weird things are happening in Indianapolis. I feel like your season can over by

one little thing. Though, Greg there is a report and it's it's not Jacobies and it's Sam Ellinger at this point, according to Stephen Holder, has people within the organization buzzing, so you never know, you never know what could happen. Also, that's like such a big window five to twelve weeks, right, I mean that's a lot. And it also screw was the Eagles over too, because if Wentz comes back at the back end of that, you know timetable, then the

Eagles don't get that first round pick. It reminds It reminds me of those cable guys they tell you they'll be there from twelve to six pm. Can you be a little more specific? Please? I love him Greg, Those voice work. Hey, Connie, are we okay? By the way, are you mad at me? Are you? Like? Honestly? Man? Maybe you even shoot me a text after the show, like, hey man, that was an ambush, like what was up with that? Or are you getting Are you getting those

vibes right now right now? But I can't. I can't tell because of there's like a haze of Petron right now, so I can't really get through. Honestly, I feel like I am drenched in tequila right now. Um, I don't have feel anything at all, quite frankly, so I don't anywhere like spending time with you this offseason. Your natural state is hungover, at least when you're used to it. She's such a pro though, It's amazing. She's like learning those legends. You would never know it. Hey, is it

too personal to ask about the finger? Oh? No? So yeah, I know this is an audio show, so I'll describe my my finger right now. So Kurt Warner threw me a pass. Uh, and I've never actually like caught a ball while running, Like I've never caught an actual pass from Hall of Fame quarterback for sure. So he threw me the ball and then I don't know, I think I might have broke my finger. Um, it's I can't. I'm gonna go. I think I'm gonna go to thank you.

Your cat was incredible. We have do we have that Ricky high point his blonde hair just you know, hanging out there in the wind carere just getting some reply before the show. That's right down, thank you, thank you. Uh, we'll get into that a little bit later as well. Break down that play. Great quarterbacking there. Kurt. Wait, so is that that's the actual throw and catch where you

injured the finger? Yeah? Yeah, it's so when I went to catch the ball, uh, it hit it hit the top of my pinky, and I like, I think it just went sideways. And then I was with Baldy the other day, so I was like, well, this is perfect. Maybe he can give me some pointers here on what not to do. So I think I'm gonna go get X rays after this show, just to make sure that it's like, you know, not going to be a problem, because I messed up my thumb on the other hand too,

so I have I was wearing a splint last night. Um, so yeah, it's just turning like a lot of different colors and I'm probably gonna lose my nail. And it sounds like you super jammed. It was that the first take? Or did you go to the end zone four or five times before they recorded a catch? Well, I will tell you that I caught it on the first try, but they weren't rolling. So then I went out again

and I caught it, but it dropped it. Uh. Then I went out again and I missed it, and so I at it on the fourth try there, So I got it on the first four you get you get credit for that. And is Kurt Warner aware that he's seriously maimed you? I don't think so. I don't. I don't think he's because I was like Kurt, I can't. I couldn't feel my panky for the entire show that we did. And also typing right now is difficult whenever

there's like an A or w involved. That's a lot of words, and I have you typing out esoteric power ranking. I mean, yeah, next time I'm saying, no, Kurt Warner, you're listening, and I know you are, buddy, Conie a text just to check in. Yeah, little lady bird bones, I know, I am like a little fragile bird. All right, that's what's happening in the news. I'm sorry to hear that, Connie. I hope it's just I hope it's just a sprain or something in that waldy fingers the rest of your life.

But it does have like a lot of weird colors going on. So yeah, I know it's crooked and it's like blue and red and there's a lot of press swollen. Still anyway, I think I'll be just fine. All right, that's what's happening in the news man, the culture and mess. And that was one of the takeaways when I looked at the overly esoteric division power rankings UM presented by no one at all, not yet anyway. But once it takes off, once the odd pers really take off, it's

going to be a different situation. Here's how it works. This is how I figured it out. Okay, the math, probably right, I can't guarantee it. And let me start there. Okay. I did use an Excel spreadsheet to help me here, I broke. I asked you three to break each of the thirty two teams um to get a score out of based on five categories. Okay, And I asked, And I want the listeners to understand this. It was not something to do. A deep dive and a and studying

and research and tape watching. Kind of a gut instinct when I tell you one to five Bill's quarterback, offensive potential, defensive potential, coach and coaching staff. Which is that certain? Hard to define something, do you you? I took it as juice translated as juice, same thing. I can't speak French, kind of same thing. Okay, juice, the factor, it factor, all that. So those five categories. I then took your final scores, reached team okay, added them up divided by four,

got a division score for everything. I totally. I told you it's overly esoteric. But guess what when the math was all through and I figured out the division average some interesting stuff. So let's go through it. And I sent it to you guys, if you want to check it out in your emails, UH, if you want to see some of the score is and where we differed some general overall takeaways on the assignment that I had. UM, the most optimistic grader was Mark. Mark's grades were higher

for most people. I was on the other end of that. I was lower than you, guys. UM. The only person to privately request our ballot remain anonymous. Colleen the only person to offer a score that does not exist Colleen A five and after the Packers and uh, Greg, you and I were very simpatico UH with our grades. We were very close on a lot of teams. UM, and then Colleen and Mark were very close with each other. Which is an interesting breakdown. UM, So let's get to it.

Eight divisions and when you when you figure it out, yes, it adds up to one hundred hundred score maximum. Who do you think is the highest score team? By the way, well, you just told us you sent the results during the show, but you told us to look at it, So now I feel like I can't answer. I didn't. I would have guessed right anyways, it's pretty I would think Tampa Bay. I don't know why. Why not the Chiefs. I would

have got the chief because that's who I had. I had I think as the highest in my mind, in my mind, in your mind. Yes, the highest graded team in this exercise was the defending Super Bowl champion Buccaneers, who had ninety three and a half out of one d UM between the four of us when you add it all up, and there was another ninety team I think a couple more nine teams in there, but nobody was at that level. So we we loved the bucks um Around these parts. The Chiefs also were high at

ninety two and the lowest team. That's pretty easy one to figure out too. There were some ghastly scores for the Houston Texans who finished that thirty three and a half um when you add up the four scores that we gave them, I mean the juice factor. I that was my one. I think the only zero I handed out. I wanted to go negative one, but I thought that might bab think about zero. Yeah, yeah, there are not

too many zeros. I think Connie and Mark had a couple, but um I I stayed away from them, as did Greg. All right, let's get to it. So the according to our overly esoteric division power rankings, the worst Division Football, and it's not necessarily it's not particularly close as the a f C South with a average score of fifty seven and a half out of one hundred. It is the Colts, Jaguars, Texans Titans division that is worse than any other one entering the season. I think, you know

we have the Titans is a heavy favorite. We had them at seventy six and a half. Um Texans, of course, I said thirty three and a half at the bottom, the Colts at sixty three and a half and the Jaguars at fifty six and a half. So I think the whole Carson Wentz and now the Quentin Nelson drama probably dropped. I would say the Colts. Uh, you know some thing that the neighborhood ten points in that drag

this division down even further. Well, you got to think about that division has the worst in football because it's got a team that went one in fifteen and it's got the team that everyone thinks is no like no other division has a two pack that bad, and that because of that, you have to think that the Titans are one of the most likely teams in the NFL to make the playoffs like the I would throw the

Bucks in there. Certainly in the Chiefs um the Bills, but maybe maybe the Titans just in terms of like likelihood to make the playoffs? Is up with those teams because I don't know, Indianapolis proved proved me wrong. But even the Titans as the best team, you wouldn't create them the way you would like the Tom Brady New England Patriots year after year. I mean, they're good, Are they great? We don't know. Yeah, that the the defense for the Titans is the one thing that worries me

a little bit. But with the Colts, just everything that's happened with Carson Wentz, you just have such a question mark now at that position. I mean, even if he does come back at the beginning of that time table, the rest of the roster for the Colts is really really good top to bottom. But if with that huge, huge void there, I mean, you don't you really just don't know what you're gonna get from Carson Wentz when

he comes back. If he's going to be like the Carson Wentzen, or if he's going to be more of the Carson Wentz that we saw before, or if he's going to even be healthy The whole year. Right next, fans, we know, we hear you, we know you're out there. If I'm a Jacks fan, I'm thinking this division is winnable. It's not that crazy. Their offense. I gave him pretty high juice factor at least if nothing else. The Jaguars

are going to be more interesting with that offensive. Laurens and I think a lot of people are curious what the Titans offense will look like without Arthur Smith. The fact that they're in this division, it's going to give them a lot of cushion to kind of figure things out. And you would think to me, and you know, maybe the Jaguar surprise surprise us here. Um, I don't think the Texans are And we'll see what happens with the

cults here as message as they are. Don't want to get too caught up in a moment, but this feels like nine wins could win the division. A nine and eight team could come out of this division, and even the Titans stumble this year. I feel like that's where they can get um all right. Next, the number seven division, A little spit of a surprise. I thought the NFC North had coming in sixty three point to five out of one hundred was the average weighted score. I don't

know if average weighted is the right terminology. I'm just say it with compouns intelligent and then if somebody can urry me on that subreddit and then Mark let me know. Um not weighted in any way. So I don't think, Greg, you gotta just you gotta go with edit out the word waited and just saved. But that doesn't sound good, just like, oh, the average um average weighted is something to pop tonight, you know what I mean. It's not waited, so it's it's incorrect. We have the favorite. The heavy

favorite is the Packers. Um, we have them at um. Our average score was eighty five out of one hundred, which is very good. But it's interesting the true Super Bowl level teams that are seen as favorites. We all kind of had them, those teams in the early nineties, late eighties, so it seems like as a group we see the Packers as maybe just a click below those great teams, but they're still a heavy favorite in this division. The Packers are the Vikings a distant second seventy out

of one hundred, which actually is a little high. I thought, and then The reason why this this is so low this division is that the Bears and lines are weighing them down. The lines are buried at forty one and a half. Uh. The Bears at fifty six and a half surprised me a little bit. I thought they would have a little more juice and you guys will be

a little more into them, but apparently not so. The fact that the division has one very good, too great team, one team that's a little on the bubble, and then two teams we see is afterthoughts held back the division as a whole. Where where did everybody fall on the Vikings. I'm high on the Vikings. I thought they were team three and a half. I think that was like the one note I took. It was like they are the ultimate three and a half team, and I think they

could be better. I'm trying to be conservative. I think they have a chance to win this division. I think their defense will be good. I think their offense will be good enough. Uh. And like they I don't I don't see them as two differently than I did going into last year, or maybe even a little better on paper, I think than than they were going into last year. When they're coming off a division title. I'd considered a shocker if if the Packers lost the division to any

one of those teams. But I'm with you that the vikings to me and I had to. I have a couple of teams, like at the Cardinals just sort of like three and a half type. You're you're a B plus. I trust you to annoy me long enough and then get completely mashed in the playoffs at some point. It's the same old story. I think you guys all had them at an eighteen at score and I had them at sixteen. First of all, Kirk Cousins is the most three and a half out of five quarterback that's ever.

He's not a three MR three and a half four. He is MR three and a half out of five UM, and I think I ding them a little bit more on defense UM and I think I talked about it earlier this week that they have so much turnover. I think they have sixteen UM new members of their defense that it's just such a titanic task for Zimmer to now put those guys and get that team playing. But if Zimmer, who's a defensive guy, gets it done, my two and a half score, that should be a little higher. Also,

don't have a ton of juice for them. Was only two out of five from you, that's fair, that's fair. But they have a chance, I think, to beat up on the on the Bears and Lions, and I think there's a chance. All that defensive talent is a huge upgrade. That defense is where I'm coming from. They're also getting like, yeah, they have a ton of new faces as starters, but they get Daniel hunterback who had the neck injury. He missed all of last year. Anthony Barr missed like fourteen games.

Um Michael Pierce opted out. So they have a couple of guys that are returning who are actually like big factors. I think in that defense, I trusted Zimmer and I don't need the Packers fans to remind me. I know they didn't. I said they won the division two years ago. They did not. They famously gagged on Monday Night Football and in front of Keith Hansas while me, West and Mark and Dan all watched them. Uh, and they didn't

make the playoffs. But when one of that's when Keith Hansas labeled Matt laflour little boy with a beer And I've never got in that sense. Come on, Danny, these guys didn't even show up. That's exactly what it sounds like. Number six. A little bit of a surprise, um that they're this high the NFC East and the slight favorite according to this group. UH and my computations, my weighted computations is the Dallas Cowboys. We haven't at seventy one and a half, So we are as a group sucked

in once again by the Cowboys. The summer of hype around everything with this team has us seeing them as a division favorite, just slightly over the Washington football team at seventy and a half, the Giants far behind the pack at fifty nine and a half, and then the Eagles Connie buried at So they are they have This division according to our um overly esoteric division power rankings, has to kind of eight to ten win teams and

then two teams that are kind of afterthoughts here. Well, I think with the Cowboys, the big question is the defense. How that rebounds with dan Quinn with Uh, I mean, they have a lot of different pieces, but last year it was just so horrendous to watch, So that's the one question for me Dallas. But I mean also, it doesn't surprise me at all that the Eagles are so low. Where where did uh the scores come out for the

coaching staff with the Eagles? You know what, that's funny you should say that, because that's one of those ones where I tweaked it later because I thought I was being a little bit me and I had it. I had it a two and a half because I just haven't been um overly impressed by some of the sound bites. And then I was like, that's totally unfair. I'm gonna give him the ben of that, and and I just slapped the three there for the Eagles coach, I gave

him a two. I gave new coaches at two unless they felt like they had a little extra juice, because you just it's hard to tell if new coaches are gonna and I gave a two and a half. I gave them another half because they're not doing any Sirianni and they give up good vibes. Um, but like, you

gotta you gotta show me at first. Let's see, it's such a young staff though, to like even beyond Nick Sirianni, that all of like the assistants are really young to um but my favorite quote from Sirianni I think that was from last week when he was talking about how their players are all in attack mode and they're gonna attack everything. They're going to attack like these practices and then they're going to attack rest and that was my favorite.

Attacking rest is truly spectacular. You know who you know who attacks uh rest? Your husband, John Gonzalas. Yeah, I mean loves a nap. That's uh, that's he does the old reda nap every day. He's a man of leisure. Remember on on Tybee Island. He during the day just like hard right turn out of social activities to like a four hour nap. Yes, this is uh, that's what not having kids is like, you can you can nap.

And I like how that that we get kind of grades here because you say we're kind of we're falling for the Cowboys. But they got a seventy one and Washington got a seventy that's right, where like Minnesota was, which we were just saying wasn't too high. It kind of what makes sense, like they're a SEAMA. Does that mean they're kind of a C minus team? It's like, you know the Bucks are A's it's it works out

pretty that's interesting. I don't know if it quite translates to the education educational system A to F scale um, but that's where the waiting would come in. We would have to have raise it. I don't think on any of these teams. This is part like when I was saying that the the numbers um. Although they don't like me,

I like them. I like that when you actually have to assign a score, even if it's something as simple as a zero to five, you kind of learned something, a little bit something about how you see these teams, when you see where you have other teams in the same same realm. But I think if you hit seventy, you're kind of right on the borderline of being a playoff team, Like you're right there. That's what I think

that this uh data. Some people say data, sometimes I say but right now I'm saying data because I think there's a little more pop to data. Sure, Hey, did any team get a thirty six? Exact? Isn't that what you got on the state mandated mattah No? Thirty nine? Oh thirty nine? Anyone get a thirty nine? Let's see the Texans got you got a thirty three. No one else is thirty three and a half one of the Lions.

Perhaps they got a four. That's really what I was getting at perfect um look where I am now, ma alright, number five the NFC South. How about the NFC South, right in the middle of the pack, the heavy favorite, the Bucks. We all love the Bucks ninety three and a half out of one, and I think uh Connie and Mark both had a twenty four out of with no and then buried in a distant second place the

Saints at seventy. The Falcons, I thought, a little little generous, and then the Panthers the bloom is off the map rule Rods, I guess with some people on the show fifty five and a half Um Greg particularly buried the quarterback position. That's Sam Donald Vendetta, which I thankfully I'm not connected to anymore. I think a one and a half out of five as low as anybody got. The Panthers buried by Rosenthal, one of the worst, one of

the worst quarterbacks in football for three years straight. What what well? You don't well? I guess the point you're making when you give him that great is you do not divorce his situation with the player. You think he was as responsible as No, I'm not He's equally responsible. I would say, I would say it's on him and it's on Gaze because I've seen many quarterbacks play under Adam Gatee and they all played better, like every single one of them. Tannehill by like a pretty good amount

at the exact same part of his career. Uh. And then I like Matt Rule as a coach. I think I gave him a rolet of the high thing. But yeah, I guess it's donald And it's a lot of questions. I think in Carolina, what was Sessler's grade for Matt Rule for the coaches there and a half? I think, I think you have this cuts through it because he has to give a pure grade and stay out of his feelings. And but you like him. You give four. I think that's the highest grade anybody gave him. But

you didn't do five because you're a man of integrity. Well, you know that there's a weighted data skill to Dan according to this exercise, So I had to remove, you know, my emotions and my empathies toward him. I like, I like him as a coach. I believe in him where I where I disagree with Greg a little bit or where at least I have more patience with Sam Donald is like he's never been in a better situation like this, and I think he's got a great play call or

two and a lot of talent around him. And I don't know why, you know, you get Christian McCaffrey back to they lost like thirteen games or thirteen games last year were decided by one score. They were the worst red zone team in the league. So if any of that starts to improve, you're looking at a team that can get more wins in a pretty shaky divisions. So I think it's like arrow up. I'm not saying like into the heavens, but one out of five, not even

one and a half. I don't like proven, the proven mediocrates thing, like you'll give a like I didn't give that to rookies or whatever. But I'm I'm not optimistic. I'm not I wasn't optimistic about Carson Wentz either, just because he's in a new a new spot, like maybe he'll be fine, but if he's Teddy Bridgewater, I think they'll consider that a pretty big loss. And I have my I I have my doubt that he'll have that their offensive line I also think on paper could be

one of the very worst. And that's that's a bad combination. Uh. When Sam Donald, they're closer to the Saints and the Falcons, then like the Buck the Bucks are so far away, like Saints fans have to like. Ultimately, the Saints, Falcons and Panthers weren't that far apart compared to how far away the Bucks were as the one team. I I like the Pants have Christian McCaffrey coming back, and that Sam Donald as Robbie Anderson, who Matt Rule knows from Temple.

It's just that that feels like it could maybe break uh in a positive way potentially. But yeah, they don't. They don't know who their left tackle is going to be. All right, Halftime halftime of the overly esoteric Division Power Rankings, odd per and a little special guest, A little surprise guest. I don't even think we mentioned at the top of the show. But this is a big deal because this is one of the best beat writers in the game. He covers the San Francisco forty Niners for the Athletic.

He is the great Matt Barrows and he joins the e T N podcast. Matt, welcome to the show. First of all, this is and Greg d. Thank you very much. I'd like to say that I'm also a data guy. Data to me sounds like an art movement, so I think we should all go data on this one. Do you want to There's this second half to that segment that the interminable segment. I will switch over to day in the second half of it after this conversation. All right,

mattter you for joining us. We appreciate it, and listen. We're gonna make it easy on you. We're not gonna necessarily ask for a above the tree tops forty niners breakdown right now on the podcast. I think the audience and especially as we're very excited to know what is going on with Trey Lance because you have a piece. And again the Athletic hate plug the athletic a lot.

I don't get paid by the athletic, but if you shirt, yeah, send me a T shirt or whatever, because that is just like you know, um, the coverage is so great and at training camp you are singing the praises of Trey Lance. You're wild like everyone else, what he's been able to do in these practices. He's barely throwing in completions Matt. And it's I think the question, of course becomes how much longer can Kyle Shanahan look the other way? Eve?

And if this is against second team defense, is is it becoming a situation where this is a freight train in San Francisco? Yeah, it seems that way. I Mean what struck me is that, Um, I guess that the best word to describe him is he's got a boldness about him. He's not acting like a rookie. He's not you know, checking down. He's not hesitant. He's attacking this defense. And it's a good defense, um, you know, pretty deep defense. But he's attacking it deep. He's attacking it with those

um you know, it's bread and butter. Kyle Shanahan throws the deep crosses, he's attacking it deep down the sidelines, he's attacking the scene, he's attacking it with his legs. And and the big takeaway is the is the juxtaposition. I mean, it really highlights what Jimmy Garoppolo isn't great at. He doesn't throw the ball deep, he doesn't attack the sidelines,

he's not a runner. So it's this contrast that's been he ate it over the first seven days of camp that you know, Jimmy Garoppolo is having a fine camp, but he's doing Jimmy Garoppolo things. He throws the short pass, the intermediate past. Well, he's really good at um hitting guys on the run, but he doesn't um, you know,

threaten the whole field. And so I've got to think that Kyle Shanahan, who loves aggressive, always attacking offense, sees Trey Lance doing this out of the shoot um and that was different than what we were thinking was going to happen, just given uh lances scant college career. That the fact that he's being so aggressive, so bold, so early, I think is what has really surprised a lot of observers, including me. Yeah, I want I wanted someone that's seen

him every day. And I'm especially happy to have you because you've been there forever. I think you were there. Were you there for Alex Smith rookie year? Oh yeah, yeah, for sure. You've seen Alex Smith come in, You've seen Colin Kaepernick come in. You know, you've seen young quarterback

I am as fast. I think Lance is the most fascinating story right now to enter the season, I've thought he would be the Week one starter if he looks great, like it's not about Jimmy G. Like, it's not about you, man. Like if if Lance just shows up and he's electric off the bat, that's that's why they drafted him. And I'm not buying anything that they're saying about this being

the best Jimmy g We've ever seen. It's like they hadn't even put on pads when John Lynch said that, which felt like a giveaway that he's b seen so after like seeing you know, Kaepernick and Alex Smith and other young quarterbacks come up, Like I guess i'd ask you to just compare, compare how Lance is looking, whether you think he would be ready to possibly get out their Week one Yeah, to me, there's there's really no no comparison. He's He's way better than both of those

guys were at at that stage of their careers. You know, Alex Smith had the the issue here that the famous Urban Myer quote was that he would be nonfunctional until he learned the whole system. That's sort of how he was. Um, he was very uch uh you know, baby horse learning to walk for the first time, as as a rookie UM, and I love Alex Smith. I came to really admire him. I'm not trying to make fun of him or anything, but he was not great his rookie season, certainly early

in training camp. Um. And then Colin Kaepernick. Um, you know, he had an injury going into his first year, UH rookie season. My memories of him was, you know, he would, you know, do a five yard dump off to the running back, but it would be a hundred mile an hour fastball. He didn't have a lot of touch early on in his career. So Lan's like I said, I mean, if he's just head and shoulders above where those guys were early on, and like I said, it's it's it's

a little bit of everything. Um, He's he's throwing the ball, um, you know, to all aspects of the field, and only recently did they start doing the read options stuff. And you know, he's he's great that in that regard to I mean, he's it strikes you he's six ft four pounds. He's not an easy guy to tackle. So even um, you know, once he gets into the secondary, he's he's going to be the guy delivering blows to the defensive backs. He's different than Kyler Murray. He's different than Russell Wilson

in that regard. He's a big guy who's gonna put pressure on defenses. I guess a question I'd have for you is, you know you hear Shanahan and Lynch still singing the praises of Jimmy G. There's been a lot of verbal commitment to him starting the season. I mean, if you're Jimmy G and you're watching these Trey Lands practices happening, I don't know what his mental makeup is, but I'm wondering, does Jimmy G thinking side Wait a minute,

this guy is the better start of than me. But secondly, if they do roll out Jimmy G and just keep that promise per se and he's outplayed in the preseason by trade Lance, does this locker room start to question the decision making. I mean, would there be a potential insurrection if you're not starting the clear cut electric electricity guy, the young guy that you you read some of the quotes.

The other players are happening about Trey Lance. They see it, they seem to love, and so it's like, why would anything other than Trey Lance starting occur. Well, I mean, if if that were the case and the forty Niners were losing, I think that that absolutely would happen, that they would they would conclude, why is Jimmy Garoppolo in there? And I think, you know, it just makes um, Jimmy Garoppolo's rope all the all the shorter. Uh. They may indeed go into week one with him as a starter,

but you know, he doesn't have very much willow room. Um, as soon as he falters. There's a guy that's that's proven that, you know, like I said, you mean, he really puts pressure on defenses, has so far? Um, you know, it's it's only been seven days. So I don't think the forty Niners are in any rush at all to make any big declarations about a rookie. Um. None of the rookies that they drafted are are in starting positions right now. So I think that's just a theme. I

think Greg is right. Uh, it's it's a lot of coach speak GM speak. At this point, no one is eager to anoint any of these guys. But to answer the first part of your question, that there was a scenario the first couple of days of camp where Trey Lands. So it was a little bit late on throwing to to Deebo Samuel who had broken, you know, deep down the field, and it wasn't a great throw, but it still was enough to get there, and Samuel h called it and went in for an easy touchdown. The next day, um,

you know, Garoppolo was in a very similar situation. He sees Deebo Samuel breaking down field, He hesitates a bit, and I wonder if in his mind he's thinking, Okay, this other quarterback is going for these throws, now I have to do this too. So he rears back and gives it everything he's got and his throw is tenure short, easy interception for Jason Burrett. On the play, didn't everybody

knew that it wouldn't get there. I think Jimmy Garoppolo probably knew that his his throw wasn't going to get there, but he sort of forced himself to throwing it, and it was a horrific path, the worst path as a training camp so far. I'm just wondering whether when you're talking about pressure, those sorts of things start to show up. He's he realizes he has to push himself out of his comfort zone. He just may not have the tools to be able to do So, Hey, Matt, what's in

a big spot? Not what's some Trey Lance's personality? Like, how how do the other guys respond to him? Um? On the field between practices. I feel like when you're there and you're able to watch practice and and see how the guys sort of react to each other, you can tell a lot more about a player beyond what you know his incompletions or lack thereof. What's what do you kind of what kind of field do you have for him? He hasn't been terrific in front of the

media to this point. I mean kind of saying all the all the rookie things. UM. I think that the biggest thing in that regard is that, UM, you know, he did look like a rookie and O t um. You know, you saw him drop back and you on sort of methodically go through his his progressions and he usually checked down or through to the sideline. Um. But when he came back for training camp, it wasn't that anymore. I mean, like I said, he was bold in his decisions.

He's attacking, and I think that everybody um concluded his teammates, UM that he put in a lot of work during that that forty days off between O t S and training camp. So I mean there's a respect there obviously that that he put in the work. And he's not not just um, you know, looking at the playbook. He was executing the playbook during his time off. He was in Atlanta, he was in l A. He was in Fargo, he was in Minneapolis, and um, he was working out

the whole time. And it wasn't just you know, working on his legs or gaining strength a gaining way he was. He was doing the playbook. And that was evident when he came back. So I think there's a lot of respect for that. Feel free to shoot this down as national media. No nothing malarkey. Um, but I'm curious if they put a percentage on Jimmy g not on the forty Niners by Halloween, My Halloween, I think that the trade deadlines. Uh yeah, yeah, but yeah, I mean I

would put it at, I would put it below. I put it at. And the reason I say that is because the forty Niners have just been torpedoed by QB injuries. Um So, even if you know lance Is is the starter and frankly, I think he will be by that point. Um, I'm not sure they want to go, you know, ostensibly into a playoff race with Nate Sudfeld as the as the number two quarterback there, so I think they'd love to have Jimmy Garofolo is the backup in case something

does happen. They would have to be blown away by an offer, I think, and if if trade answer is indeed taking over for Jimmy Garoppolo, I don't know if any team is offering a first round pick or even a second round pick at that point for jim Garoppolo. So that's why I don't think it probably doesn't happen. But I mean, and there's also the money factor. Any team that that takes on Garoppolo is going to have to take on half of that uh what is it,

twenty six million dollar shalery at that point. So there are a lot of reasons why it might not happen. So we'll keep million dollar backup, maybe even in Week one. It's not that crazy. Jake Briskett was a seventeen million dollars. I mean, it it happens, uh, And I think it kind of makes sense for where they're at even if it was week one, that they just keep them, keep him and pay him his money and he stays as the backup. Matt Barrow, Matt Barrows, I should say cover

covers the forty niners for the athletic reading stuff. Follow him on Twitter at Matt Barrows b A R r Ows. Matt, thank you for joining us. And I really sensed in that your most recent write up it's almost a my home zeen. It reminds me of how like Chiefs writers were writing about my homes early now not saying that that's what this guy's gonna be, but it sounds like an exciting time to be on the beat, and we look forward to reading more about it as things go along.

Thank you for having me. Thank you by that. There he goes. It's good, that's good. It's perfect for him to come on just as Connie's computer was crashing, like the listeners will never know like a future it's just like me today. All right. Back to the division power rankings. The data not dad any longer because Matt was right,

data is a little more hardcore. So we had a f C South fifty seven and a half NFC North sixty three point to five NFC E sixty four point one to five NFC South right in the middle at seventy one. Now the top half will start number four, the A F C West, all right, and the Chiefs. As I said, ninety two out of one hundred, we all love the Chiefs. Um. They are right behind the Bucks as our number two team in this exercise. A

distance second. I thought maybe they'd be a little bit higher, But we have the Chargers at seventy three, then the Broncos at sixty three and a half. Again, they're hamstrung by that QB situation, but we all seem to like them a lot um otherwise. But also the QB situation, and this is the magic of the overly esoteric division power rankings. That QB situation affects the June's qua of a team and the office. It's all connected. It's the most important position. And even though QB is only one

category out of five, it bleeds into the others. Because see, it's a perfect thing. I've been on something. Everybody the data, it doesn't lie anyway. Charger seventy three, Bronco sixty three and a half, RATEAR sixty one and a half. Average score seventy two and a half, just above the nfc S and just below the team will talk about next big picture thoughts. This is to me the Bills are the heaviest favorite. When I think about who's the division favorites.

The Chiefs are right there too, and this data backs that up. Wow, I think the I think the Bucks are the biggest favorite, but I see where you're at, where it'd be shocking if the Chiefs didn't win the division yet. This division is interesting. I'm glad I got in the top half because it feels like the other three, any one of them could make the playoffs, and any any one of them should be pretty entertaining to watch

or at least has things to watch. I think the Broncos have like a legit chance to make the playoffs this year, and I'm sure I think fans of all three of these teams are going into the season thinking that way. Obviously they'll they'll someone's gonna be overly optimistic. Someone has got to be lower on the Chargers than I am, because the way that I did this, I believe I have them as a locked in playoff team. I like them a lot um. I gave their new

coaching situation. I think I don't do this two point five thing that you do, Greg. I I kind of go three unless I really like the idea of one. But I think Brandon Staley is going to be a big help because think coaching issues were a big problem for the Chargers for like the entire time we've worked at NFL dot Com. So I think it's arrow up and I look at Justin Herbert and say, well, the offensive line has improved. Why is why would this not be a playoff team? To me? Was down on them.

I was pretty high on them too. Mark. I don't think Greg, you had him at seventeen. I had him at sixteen and a half. Connie had them at nineteen and a half, and Mark you had them at I don't know that you might that there was there an addition problem here. Rule it out, will rule it out. I don't know. Now you're probably right, but let's know, because yeah, that's uh, I'll double check that. You guys keep talking. I know. I think I think I might

have just made a mistake glancing through it. I think they have legitimate roster issues on defense. Other than Joey Both, there's not a lot there in the front seven. You're really county on Brandon Staley to sprinkle you know, his magic dust on a roster. I don't think necessarily looks much better. You get there when James back healthy. Obviously that that's huge, but you I think the defensive line and the rest of the past rush other than Bosa

and the linebacker spots are pretty big question marks. And everyone assumes the offensive line is way better. The names are so much better. It looks better on paper, but man, they're cursed on the offensive line, and it's the hardest group to predict in football, Like good groups can turn bad without really a lot of reasons. So I'm not just assuming that these names like Matt Feeler comes in and he just solves everything. Brian Bulaga is suddenly healthy

of first round rookie tackle, you know, Slater is suddenly great. No, like that's all hopeful stuff, But it could be a bad offensive line. I gave Herbert a five, though I thought or a four and a half, and so to me, it's it's Herbert that is the reason for optim to give him this team. Yeah, wow, I don't know. I like the fact that they brought in Corey Lindsley. That's definitely going to help the offensive line. You have a

healthy Austin Ekeler to this year. I don't like that they don't have Hunter Henry there anymore, but I think that Justin Herbert showed so much last year, and that was his rookies in. I mean, with Brandon Staley, I don't know what that scheme is going to look like. I don't know how much different it'll look um from last season. But Justin Herbert, he's been so much fun to watch. I feel like he's only going to get better. I know people are down on Joe Lombardi, but it

sounds like they're using a lot of Saints. There's definitely some Shanahan Tree stuff in there, and I think that they've spent the off season saying, look at we're gonna try to make this work for Justin Herbert, not shove him into something else. But Greg I the one thing I don't agree with with that. Yes, the line has been cursed, but that doesn't predict what's going to happen down the road. I mean, at least they tried to

patch that up. They did a great job, but I'm not assuming they're better than average, just because they signed a bunch of guys if they were if they were average, if they were average, that would be better than last year. I think they can get to that point. There's a there's a lot of projecting with the Broncos too. I know they have a nice defensive roster, but they're one of one of just a few teams in the league

with a raging question market at quarterback. And those are the teams that I am less willing to give any rope to, no matter who's around that position. The data, by the way, does check out the Charges. We have them at seven at seventy three average, and that is again once you figured out it's kind of a playoff bubble team, which makes sense. Let's come down about the Charges. This is not the super Bowl team. Maybe they are, but they feel like that's where they should be. I

am a little surprised. I know everyone and their brothers down on the Raiders, but that that's a you put them at sixty one and a half, that's you're talking about a double digit lost team. UM. I wonder if there's a little bit of piling on with the Raiders that's filtering through in this exercise. Well, what category, because I think you could look a lot of these teams that have show promise, one of their categories gets a

five or a four point five from almost everyone. Tell me what category it is on the last Las Vegas rates, Yeah, exactly,

they don't. Where did they get better other than defensive coaching, Like I think I think they're hoping they're coaching is better, but it's not like Gus Bradley has been dialing up a lot of like you know, great defenses lately, by the way, and they're deeper on defense, but I think you look at the losses they had on offense, they're one of those teams that it's really hard to make a case that they got better when you when you at least are putting on your rosie, you know, optimist hat.

Almost every other team can do that, and the Raiders can't. A lot of four is on offense, which I think makes especially if Josh Jacobs bounces back. Um and Derek Carr really did take a step up I thought last year, and the tight end and maybe Henry Ruggs makes leap. There's there's a you could you don't have to squint to see the Raiders as a very good offense. The rest of it is pretty much a crapshoot to me.

Um all right, let's now move into the top three, just edging the a f C West with a average score seventy three point three seven five is the A f C East. How about that? About the a f C East? I love it. It is more interesting than it's been time that and the breakdown is as follows. The favorite and a significant significant favorite of course, the

Buffalo Bills, who just missed that ninety tier. They are eighty nine and a half points out of one, so they're right there knocking on the door as a Super Bowl contender. That checks out uh, second place the Patriots seventy three and a half. So there you go there, right on that like borderline if you're if you're in that seventy seventy four range, we kind of see you

as a playoff bubble team. Uh. Just behind them is the Dolphins at seventy and a half, so they're a little bit more of a uphill climb to get a plasspot, but they're right there knocking on the door. And then the Jets at sixty um, which is kind of right at the breaking point. Between bad teams and mediocre teams, which I can kind of see that's where they're going. So I could think kind of nailed this division. What do you guys think? I think the Dolphins are really intriguing,

Like that's the that's the team that I feel. It could go either way, like they could either maybe not make the jump that some people think they will, or they will improve because of the guys that they brought in Jalen Waddle with two I mean, they really worked hard to surround to uh this offseason. And I know we've talked about it before on this podcast about how does the two offensive coordinator thing work in Miami. Um,

it doesn't always work out. Sort of maybe having two worked out because now you have a backup when if one gets That's a perfect point. Actually I love that, But I wonder about the Xavien Howard situation to how that's going to play out. I mean, I don't think it would be smart for them to trade him, but he's obviously not happy. Sounds like it's probably getting settled. I've been surprised that the team is so optimistic and that he actually did go on the practice field and

then he got hurt. Uh. I think it was a minor injury. But he's been there kind of like doing the Jamal Adams thing where he's on the field and helping, and so it doesn't I don't think there's a lot of bad blood. I think they're going to give him a cosmetic adjustment to his contracts, similar to Rogers, where they maybe knock off one of his years, just like you're too even to get him closer to free agency, but not really do much else and that and that solves.

I'm with you. They're fascinating because I think they've been greater than the some of their parts. I think they're fun to watch. I think the Patriots defense is fascinating this year. They added so much in Belichick coming off that year, like they they're they're upside on defense, is like a top three defense, but they stunk last year on defense. And the Jets are more watchable and more interesting to me than they've been in a long time.

And you've got a superpower team in the Bills. The af C East has been so boring as a division, I would say for the most part, for like fifteen years. I think like these games are gonna be a lot more watchable. I'm glad. I'm glad it's in the top. I think you have stability where it used to be obviously the Patriots, and it turns to ill scenario for the other three teams. In terms of coaches, GMS, just

NonStop transition. I think you look at Sean McDermott and say, this is a potentially a top five coach, if not better. I mean he he is. He's brought incredible growth to the Bills. They've gotten so much better so quickly. The Jets have stability. I really look at what they're doing, and I believe in the plan. And if Zach Wilson works out that whole story in that narrative changes drastically and the Patriots angrily reloaded. And Bill Belichick, I don't

care what anyone says, is furious behind the scenes. He is utterly furious. And what happened last season, So the division is going to be a dog fight. Mark back on the Belichick train. If he ever was off, he never left off. Um. It's interesting. On the note to inside the data numbers the way to data one, only one of us, only one of us, did not get Bill Belichick. Of five out of five who do you think it was? Greg so great? It's such a Greg moved really check half a point. Well, I didn't give

it almost any fives to any teams in anything. Yeah, I guess so, But that's fair. But he's coming off, you know, one of the worst coaching jobs he's ever done. I think, I know, you can say you make the argument that they had the talent that they had, and so it's hard to you know, divorced personnel from his coaching, but his defense collapsed, and I think, like and what

they were gonna plan to do on offense. It wasn't a one season coaching career, and they had last year like Mahomes got Mahomes got a five and that was about it of the mas of coaches. I mean, I feel like he kind of a right, okay, the greatest coach in NFL history of four point five. They also were right at the beginning, you know, I didn't know how hard the grading was going to be. And then the other I also have to pick up my kids

from camp right now. I know I'm part of the reason from honking too much, but I gotta miss the top two divisions right now. I have to pick up the kids are gonna be waiting that camp. They're like, where is They'll be fine? Um. The other data here two and a half, two and a half, two and a half for the quarterback situation in Miami, except for Mark you had him at three. Alright, just right there are a classic two and a half quarterback situation number two.

I really, I really am leaving. I love you all. What is that you can't leave to his children? Have to get them there? Usually this is just leave the show. I mean I'm also out in the city. You know, they're just gonna be like, like, if you can. The explanation is part of the problem. Here, we get it. You go do it, can't go. There needs to be a penalty for this that he loves. You just left the screen up. It's like an empty chair. That's such

a bad job. Some background noises. You gotta get somebody. You gotta get somebody else to pick up the kids. You can't just leave the show. Yeah, I mean, he should have just told us. He should have been way upfront with us about this. Look at this. They're doing the odd Pers today, Today's the odd Per Show. Did it Dan? It is a bit treason, is I I hear what you're saying. Well, I can't say trees this because it's he's going to get his kids, But like, where where are we Can we get an old pair

to pick up the kids? Can we we have an all a parent in the house. Can we figure out something? I mean, Greg, Greg's like, rich, now, can you have a house manager or something? Don't don't have some type of like boy that works there. Greg just actually wants to go take a nap. That's what's happening. I cannot believe he left, Like his audio recording is probably still going right now. Like it's just it's just empty. I'm actually supposed to be interviewing um Hall of Fame inductee.

I don't care anybody where they got to be. We're doing the podcast. Everybody's like, hey, we gotta go. Everybody's giving me hard outs. I don't give anybody's heart outs. Guess what, I'm still here. How is Colleen not the one that at some point said I'm out of this this scenario podcasting? It's me. Oh, you know, at the top of the show, I'm trying to move things along, and then we have like a fifteen minute like conversation about life and it's like that was great. I love

talking about it. But did Greg not realize that he was on a clock himself at that point? No, he did not. I can tell you affirmatively he did not. Well, we will pick up this conversation with Greg when he returns to the show at some point I assume Monday. I don't know, Well, it depends what the parental um you know, responsibilities are that day. Apparently Greg did not did mention multiple times that he does not wear the

ends in his house. I mean, I'm not saying that he said that to us on a show, so you know, deduct as you will wait wait that I can't wait to pull a Greg on inside training camp. Like on Friday. I'm just gonna be like, yeah, I gotta I have something to be at now, so I'm gonna be leaving and then just get up and walk away. Do you think if he's like sitting, if he's sitting in for nap Earlson on Good Morning Football, do you think he just walks away in the middle of the show. You

just don't know. It's it's a respect thing. At this point, I think you need to have a conversation with him. This is this. Let me just remove this. Here we go, Mark, This is a hey, let's go get dinner and have a conversation. I think it is. And those are always um. There's sort of a sobriety aspect of that. I'm not saying that we're not drinking beer. But it's a somber conversation. We've had it for Sometimes we have to have those

break bread conversations. This is a break bread conversation because he just broke my heart. I feel like he broke up with us. He chose his kids. It's over us, and that's something that needs to be addressed. He's got to have like a boy that fans him at the house somewhere, that has a driver's license or at least can drive and make a couple of right turns. Right. They weren't expensive mhm boy little boys? No, I mean it's like I can think you could hire a boy

probably doesn't charge that much. I'm picturing the little man and Boogie Knights, who's throwing the those little sound things the Snappers assume the does Nick podcast allows him to have a Snapper boy. I think there was some there was other elements to the relationship with Snapper boy in that film. But um, I hear I hear you. What if you found out that Greg was going to do the podcast with gentle Nick right now and he left this podcast to go do that one. No, I'm still here.

I'm still here. Nothing would surprise me. What do you do that to jes Nick? I don't know. That's that's the part of the conversation when you break bread with the little dark prinsive comedy. What do you do that to jell Nick? All right, let's try to let's pull things together, let's be professionals. Number two on the overly esoteric Division power rankings is the a f C North How about that marks number two. Some people would have

said number one, but it's not how it worked out. Um, according to our data, and it breaks down as follows. The favorite in the division just slightly, the Baltimore Ravens eighty four and a half out of one. That makes sense. Number two, the Cleveland Browns two. Number three. The Pittsburgh steel Or seventy seven and a half. So, as we've talked about that seventy to seventy five is a bubble team.

We see the Steelers out of that bubble as a group we kind of see them more as a team that is in the in the dance, most likely anything plus seventy five, and then the Bengals rounding it out and pulling down the average at fifty seven and a half. If the Bengals had a little more juice to them. Um, this is the number one team in our power rankings, a number one division our power rankings. That's not how it worked out, Mark, the Browns would have been number one.

But I think you were a little harsh on them grading wise. Uh, to be totally honest with you, UM, and I saw some of your scores were a little lower than I expected for your favorite football team. I was trying to, um, look at this division from a couple of different angles, and yes, I think the Browns you could argue, have the most balanced and powerful looking roster on paper. I think they do. Um. There are questions about Baker Mayfield that most people have. I have

probably fewer of those questions than others. I think if he can just do what he did last year, there are a playoff team. But for me, and you know, maybe this was where a little bit of emotion came in.

But just because of evidence in what I've seen. I want to see the Cleveland Browns as an organization say say to everyone, we can do this two years in a row where I have no questions about out the Ravens repeating their success and frankly, like I do think over the course of the offseason the Steelers they have some holes, but they have addressed certain concerns, and just as we get closer and closer to the year, I

kind of just trust them to win eleven games. And so I had the Browns just a not a nudge below Pittsburgh based on sort of organizational history maybe as much as anything else. Maybe that was a little off base, but I don't have all three of them is playoff type teams. We both had Baker at three and a half. I think, like Kirk Cousins, that's a perfect spot for Baker Mayfield in one. And I think he has a ceiling personally of a four quarterback and a floor of

a three quarterback, I think. And that's why if you're the Browns, you can understand why, UM, they're like, is that a guy to do a long term deal with? Um, He's maybe not going to be a superstar, but he's shown us He's demonstrated that he is a sturdy guy that can run an offense and can get hot, Like, is that is that enough of UM skill set to do long term business with I think they will eventually.

I think that I was a four with Baker. I think I gave him a little bit more of an edge because I almost feel like people are two down on him and they don't give him enough credit UM for last season. But the biggest thing for me, uh is the Steelers. I have a lot of questions about that offensive line there there it's basically completely new UM and then they're trying to revamp and revitalize a run

game there. So Nagie Harris, he's great, but it's really going to fall back on the offensive line, like how much how much will they be able to protect Ben and what kind of run blocking will they be able to do for Nagi Connie, you had the Joe Burrow at four and a half out of five, you are very high. I love Joe Burrow. I thought it was really good before he got hurt and I got hurt.

I hate how training camp beat reporting, and it's not on the Beat reporters because they're doing their job, but the way the football agnes, and they takes the reporting and then it spends it into this is the way things are now, and that's what's gonna happen with this Joe Burrow report that's out there today that he's been really had a tough training camp so far. He's missing a lot of passes. He doesn't look nearly the same as he did last summer. Mark, Is that concerned you

a lot? Or for for me? I I you gotta reconstructed knee surgery, no joke. He's trying to get his feet wet. I'm giving him a little bit more of a pass. But I can see why some people are gonna run with this. I think you can. You can say though that there is you know, there are quarterbacks in time, back in time where coming off of knee surgery, they just weren't the same type of person now Burrow. I mean he does it all, um, but he's not

like a scrambling quarterback. First. You know that it's a little bit different than when r G three came back from a major knee operation. You know, Burrow Burrows deep ball is something people have concerns with. Um. My thing with them is like, is this organization, where if he were on a different team, different organization, would they manage this the same way would would would he be an

environ himant to put some better place for success. I always have issues with the Bengals on that front, um, But Burrow the player, I'm with Colleen that, like a month ago, I absolutely thought the world of him. And we'll wait and see if there's some sort of tentative nature to his play. I mean, one week of bad camp practices does not shake my opinion to the core though, mm hmm. But also, yeah, all right, let's let's no, no, no,

I want to hear it. Well, I was gonna say, you have your quarterback who had such a great season before he was hurt, and he has been coming off the knee injury, and the fact that the organization didn't take Pinasol or didn't take someone for that offensive line I think is troubling because if he gets hit again, you don't know where he is. I'm sure, I'm sure he's going to be okay, But I just if it was me, I would have taken a player to protect

my franchise quarterback. Um, not someone that another guy that he could throw to. Obviously, It's nice that they have the reunion, but I just think it's really important to protect your guy. And you're you're, you're, you're, you're preaching to the choir. Is it's singing to the choir. Now you're preaching to the choir. I've been the choir. Would Yeah, I don't know. I don't know why they didn't do it,

but that's it is what it is. You hope the offensive line Riley Reef and there are some other pieces there that are trending upward that offensive line will be better. But I do hate because I think we're all really excited about Burrow entering last year and he really flashed in moments uh and during an imperfect rookie season. I just hate that now that the conversation around him is is he gonna be okay? Is physically is he the same guy? You just it's just a kind of a

bummer for year two of his career. You can answer those questions real fast, he can, and you just hope it's not an RG three situation where he ends up getting hurt in a way where he was kind of hung out to drive by his team on a certain level, and then he's never the same guy physically again. By the way, RG three retired from the NFL now works for ESPN. How about that? Um? All right, finally, according to our tabulations, and this includes Greg's data even though

he's no longer part of the conversation. Let's check in, Ricky. This is for the YouTube audience. Yep, chairs still empty. We're gonna have to have a sit down. We have to break bread mark. Yeah, it's gonna be you know. We we thought we got through some of this, um, Apparently not. The NFC West is the best football division according to me around the NFL podcast over the esoteric division power rankings, and uh, it makes sense to me

and it very interesting. So we have the Rams as the ever so slight favorite one and a half out of one hundred average grade. Uh, the Seahawks at one right behind him, and then not far behind the Rams of the Seahawks, the Niners at seventy seven and a half, and damn. After talking to Matt Barrows, I'm like, man, yea, if this Trey Lance dude is but he looks like he is in camps so far, you might have to

bump this team up seven or eight points. But for now we can only go off a completely inexperienced rookie quarterback and Jimmy Jimmy g in the driver's seat to be the starter. Seventy seven and a half. So we have, based on our data here we have three teams that should be comfortably playoff teams if things play out how they want them to. And then the Cardinals out of the mix, a victim of a lot of things, including

a very tough division. Sixty seven and a half. Nothing to be ashamed of sixty seven and a half, but that is not a playoff team, and I don't know if that would be enough to keep Cliff Kingsbury employed if they end up going let's say seven and ten. Well, they had such a disappointing end to last season. They're the start though, was really promising, and then once Kyler heard his shoulder, everything sort of went downhill and he wasn't able to do the same things that he could

do before. But I thought that when you watch them at the beginning of the year, they had so much momentum, and I'm a little bit higher on them. I think that this is the toughest division, no like, no doubt about it in football, But I think the Cardinals could also be very much in the mix. Yeah, I don't. I don't think that there. It's not so much like I'm down on the Cardinals. I just think that to

be in that environment in that division is gonna be rough. Um. I think the forty nine ers a year ago, we're a team that could get picked off, you know, here and there because of their injuries situation. I think their quarterback, tight end, running back in two starting whiteouts played together for two games the Tops, and now the environment's totally changed. I mean, if trade Lance, to your point is what we're hearing, um, that they are the odds on favorites.

To me in this division, I just want to see it first. The Rams just feel really solid. I mean I give their quarterback of high score, their coach, their defense, their offense, their juice. They're coming to the new stadium. We know that Colleen's a big fan of that place. So there's a lot to like here. And I mean I think it's there's they are the better division than

the a f C. North. I think we got that right as a group now that we have you know, I was the it is a quad juice factor of the Seahawks I had it down at three because there is some like bubbling tensions UM in Seattle right now. But you know I had I had Russell Wilson at four and a half as a quarterback. I think it was mostly five's uh for UM Russell Wilson's you have that quarterback, you have the coaching staff in place, you have a defense that that that can get the job

done on offense with a high ceiling. Yeah, the Seahawks, it's we've talked about it, to make or break a year for them, Um, and then the other team in the mix here of the Rams. Listen, Mark, you've been up and down on the Rams at times, but when you just kind of go through it all, Oh look, who's bad? Oh my god? Greg? What look you guys are you know? Did you already pick up your kids? Still chatting? Yeah, they're pretty clear. You know, the camp

is very close. We're very determined across the ninety minutes still doing the podcast should be You should know Greg that we spent ten minutes discussing your exit before we got back into the chat, So that might explain where we're still doing this. But we are at the NFC West seventy six point eight seven five, the number one team on the Overly Division Power Rankings Overly Elongated Division

Power Ranking. We have a dinner day ahead, Gregg, just to let you know, Um, how does this change things now? Since Greg came back onto the show after he got his kids. What you said it was a bad job by me or whatever, Well, listen, we don't We're gonna be breaking bread to really have the conversation. I don't think it's for the show. But no, we wondered if you were sitting in for night on g NFB, or if Tony gesl Nick was next to you with a microphone.

Is Gregg walking off with These are questions that are we're just kind of thrown out there with no real answers. Unfortunately, you guys are you know this camp schedule has been going on for a while. It's why we were We've been taping a little earlier. Today just went a little long, you know, but large partly because of me. So I'll

take that responsibility. But I can't just can't just let them sit there in the parking lot at Memorial Park over there, and can you can you um confirm or deny that you have a what did we call a snapper boy. Well, it's sort of like a house boy. Um, like a young young man, not even a man, not even a young man, a boy helping you out with various boy, someone who could drive maybe sixteen. We don't have any help. Please if if you, if you are

a good babysitter something. We haven't had a babysitter since

you know, this pandemic began here. Let's let's do something. Hm, alright, so let's wrap it up, Greg, do you have a f C North came in at second seventy three seven five, just ahead of the NFC West, and the way that our numbers broke down, we like, we like playoff team, three playoff teams coming out of here and then comfortably and with you know, the Trey Lance who knows what happens if he takes off, because we have the Niners ranked third in the division, but they could easily vault

the Rams and Seahawks, Cardinals a little behind the pack. Um, do you have anything to add the numbers? Got it right? What other what other division has three Super Bowl contenders? None? Sorry, unless you want to throw the Steelers in there, as I and they squinted hard enough, but I think I think the Seahawks playing in the super Bowl is something that could happen. They is playing the super Bowl, I believe is something that could happen. And the Rams as well.

And the Cardinals aren't. We don't think the Cardinals are a dog team. There's really bad teams that are picked to be fourth place. The Cardinals are not. The Cardinals have a ceiling where I could see them winning ten games, so that this is a really really good division. They deserved it. It would have been troubling if they didn't finish first, but they have. And that is let's close

the book or close the Excel spreadsheet. I thought it went well, maybe a little long, but I think we really learned some things and it was a good com in. I liked it. It It kind of worked as an overarching season preview, you know a little bit, which we haven't done. So that's that's good. And now maybe we don't have to do we have next week off. All right, Connie, you you said it all. I sure did. I really did today. This is work. I gave you. I gave you some poop early and the reason is because I

know that you're a great sport and thank you. Are you trying to just like avoid an angry text from me, like we gotta break bread. We have to sit down and break bread. Yeah, we're gonna have to go out to dinner. And then I am looking up for the longest show in history with the most amount of homework. I know I'm supposed to go get like hand X rays, but I think I might just take a nap instead and hope for the best. And I look forward. I

look forward to Hollywood Park, Colleen. I just want to let you know I haven't been there yet, but I'm really excited to see the stadium. Well you should be. It's the future. I wish that was your delivery. All right. We'll be back on Friday tomorrow on NFL Network, So check that out, check your local listings, DVR at find a way to watch it Saturday morning. I think Saturday. Yes, you can do that with us too, if you'd like, Colleen, if you'd like to do Oh my god, that's so

nice of you guys. But I'll be in Atlanta for Inside Training Camp Live. Yeah, what's up next? So you got Atlanta? Then where are you going after that? So I have Atlanta on Saturday and then I'm in Tennessee on Monday and Indianapolis on Wednesday. M you're squeezing your eyes so hard thinking there. I'm sorry, I'm challenging you so hard to use the brain today it's broken. Well, safe travels, Connie. You're doing awesome work. You are a star in the network and we're happy to have you

on the show. Yes, NFL Network Show this weekend, and then we're back Monday with another edition of the Around the NFL podcast. Thank you everybody for listening until Monday. I'll well see that call