New Horizons Monday and Go Get My Lunch Recap

They around the NFL podcast wants you to show some damn respect this Black Monday. I mean, these are people, man, exactly.

From the Chris Wesley podcast studio. It's around the NFL. Dan hansis heroes, Greg Rosenthal, Mark Sessler, and people don't understand that. And it's not even Black Monday. How many times do we have to come on the air the day after the regular season and remind you that Black Monday is defunct.

This is New Horizons Monday.

It's good sometimes when the host of your show gets it, like this guy gets it.

He really does. Like Dan, let's start here.

Dan is a bastion of respect towards elders, towards people of authority and NFL coach types.

So I think it starts with you and I have a.

Take, and I just want to say, because it is this is all kind of.

An ongoing bit.

Because and Greg likes to align himself with these people too, where like this is one of the hardest days. These are people and the stabs and all this. I totally agree with that. Like people losing their jobs, no matter what the job is, is bad news. This is different in the sense that the coaching life you sign up for this. Unfortunately, it's a transient type business where you never stay one place for too long. Look at Bill Beljake, you how long was he in New England? Greg twenty

Believe I believe his assistant has been there. And then the other ones are the ones that came out of his ex wife's body.

I would believe those are the.

Only way to say it, the only the only people who have remained. Now they weren't working for the Patriots the whole time, but technically technically been there.

Yeah, just say that again, just so we have it.

Ever, I had a different way of saying it, that would have been Yeah.

Anyway, All I'm saying is it is by its nature, it's you're always moving around and hopefully, uh, these men and women.

Like my new positions for next year.

It is kind of a you kind of just rotate around typically and hopefully you don't fall.

It's also like high level executive transactional business, where like if someone is working at like rite aid and they get canned, we'll go find your go find a new job and see if you can pay rent. These guys are getting paid lavishly by that, most of them.

That is why I think people push back that vast man I'm saying, the head coaches, the head coaches and.

General managers, and I understand.

I get that into my my heart goes out all out that that I get that sometimes, like have you ever lost a job, Like, sometimes losing the job can like it can like refocus make you think about what you should go do with your life. So it's like not always the worst thing on the planet. So maybe it's a great thing. Maybe we should celebrate.

Well that's why we call it, yeah, not black Monday.

And we're gonna get into it all.

And then we're gonna check in before we say goodbye here And by the way, if you haven't gotten caught up, we just dropped the week eighteen recap banger two hours of just the Mastery of the Craft, so you.

Check that out.

We're now we're gonna get you caught up where everything stands in terms of personnel, and also everybody cleaning out.

Their lockers that didn't make the playoffs.

So you have a bunch of pressers going on today, a lot going on, and we will close the door on our preseason predictions. In the regular season, check in on our over unders, checked back see where we ended up with a running back draft. Remember that that was fun, and also our sandwich props. But let's start with the news.

Let's hear a little bit from the owner Blank.

This is not from PBS and public radios coverage, just as from w XIA. They have started their search, but they do not have a timetable yet.

Blank says, I.

Said, initially, we've kind of begun the process, if you will, doesn't take long to get going, So we're moving. But I also want to be clear on this is that there is no timetable. The only timetable is to do this correctly, take our time, be thoughtful, do all the interviews be respectful, make sure we have a full, diverse slight of candidates that we're considering.

The most interesting part of the Falcons day, I think was number one Terry Fontineau wasn't part of that press conference.

They said he.

Will be involved in the head coach search, but his role could depend on what the head coach wants to do, So that to me sounds like heard that before. It's his tenuous It'll depend on if any plan for him to work together, but again it could depend on the head coach. And thinking, well, who could it be? Deanna Rassini among others, have reported that they're interested in Bill Belichick, which just gets me thinking, like who is putting that out there and what is the purpose of that?

Is it Belichick's agent?

Is it the Falcons letting Bill Belichick know that?

I don't know.

It is curious to me our our network hasn't quite gotten that hard there yet, But that is a very interesting commination.

Just why does it have to be potentially Machavelli and how why isn't the team just interested in him?

And it's kind of just being for it, But you have to find out that way. You have to find out.

So it's probably from the team, but maybe it's Rich McKay who's heavily involved in this. I'm just curious, like why, why is that necessary? And maybe they're just trying to let him know put a little bit dance around the.

Yeah, it's I mean, this is the ancient dance.

I think also like if they're talking about patients Belichick may take some patience, that whole process will well. And if you talk about Belichick, if you're not going to go in with a powerful GM who was going to run the ship. It's like, we want to find out what Belichick's role in all that is. And I think Arthur blank is probably wanting to make this one work.

It's been it's been tenuous.

Arthur Blake is not getting any younger and and he wants to find somebody that can write the ship. And speaking of Bill Belichick, he called an early press conference this morning. Uh, And I was wondering late last night, hmm, this early press conference. Is he looking at hit the ground running and announced that he's leaving. This is the guy that once wrote on a napkin and he's resigning his HC of the.

N y J.

Maybe be dramatic, not that not quite that dramatic. And in his presser, Bill underline that he can't really do anything right now because he is contractually obligated to be the head coach of New England Patriots.

As far as any you know, decisions or direction or anything like that for next year, it's you know, way too early for that end of the year processes. You know, I don't think will be fundamentally any different from a you know, the standpoint of how it's done. The decisions, that's all another conversation.

But how it's.

Done, you know, meet with Robert like I always do, meet with the staff, personnel department, recap the season, looked the big picture, and then look at some of the individual situations that are yeah, you know, looming one way or another. Okay, So, but that's you know, obviously a long long way off, very long from where we are right now.

Okay, So, but it is he's saying that. But this I would imagine could potentially move pretty quickly here, because you know, we're in the business now hiring new coaches, and if the Patriots need a new head coach and then people want Bill Belichick, this thing has to move.

I mean, so he's been there for twenty four years, you know, rough out of the gate, rough first season, but in general he's never had to answer questions like this before in New England, anything like this. It's it's completely a new territory. And I think that there's a couple of things happening. It's like if your craft in Belichick, I thought the most shocking thing that could have happened was him coming out and given you a note on a napkin, because too much has happened here a story.

Cool. Yeah, I would have been cool.

But it's not the Jets, and he didn't decide didn't want the job twenty four hours after taking it or being haven't shoved on him, Like if you're craft, like you want to if there's gonna be an exit, it's not just I don't I don't think it would just be craft flat out firing Bill Belichick. It's gonna have to be some sort of it's gonna have to look a different way to the public. At least it's gonna

Ever always stated reported yesterday that Belichick essentially has the power or they can't make that happen to trade.

They can't. He would have to go agree to it.

I mean, if it was a place that he wanted to go, kind of like a but it was the Falcons.

So I do think you can take some interesting things from Belichick's press conference. Number one, he mentioned his contract voluntarily. He never says that, so right there, He's never had to before now, Dave, he's never taught Conra. That was very pointed. It was saying I'm under contract. I always look to our our friend Tom Kurrn to interpret these.

He knows it.

And he also says, as we tape this Monday afternoon, on the East Coast. Don't expect anything today. He thought it was very much Bill Belichick saying, if you wanna fire me, you're gonna have to come do it. Like the whole trade thing, why would he help them take assets away from the team. He's gotta go. That's it's not it's not gonna happen. I don't think there's any chance the whole Let's make this warm and professional. If we want you to step down, we'll see. He might

Again, Tom Current thought like he's only going to bend so far.

He's not going to change and become like a different person and start like answering to some GM who has final say. He says, there's always going to be someone that has final say. I don't expect him to be there, But this does seem like he's telling Craft, if you want to fire me, it's like you got to fire me. I'm not going to just walk away and make this easy. And I think there is some discomfort from Craft of being the guy who got rid of Brady and got rid of Belichick, which is natural.

In other news, this was expected obviously, and it went down and became official on Monday morning, New Horizons Monday, Josh Harris and the Commanders have said goodbye to Ron.

Rivera, who.

Is moving on after what was this his third season with the team, fourth four seasons at the Helm. He went twenty six to forty and one in his four seasons. They won the NFC East with a nine and seven record his first year, but it's been uphill mostly with Rivera and then their eternal search for an answer quarterback is a big part of that new ownership, a new

Well, football is completely different than basketball.

Your thoughts on that knew that was coming go ahead?

Greg, No, that was the bit go ahead?

Okay, So I it's just's just helping with the search, Like I have no problem with this actually, and I've seen a lot of like outrage over it, and it's I yeah, a little bit just listening to some stuff and we're like, why are they I think it was specific he was outrage, there's it's it's just some feedback I heard heard in general where it's just like radio stuff where it's like how could you possibly do this?

It's like, well, because.

But you're Josh Harris and like you're doing what I think someone like David Tepper and other owners should do. Is like I don't know how to do this, Like I want help, Like I'm not gonna be some sort of like heavy swinging guy that just does what I want out of pocket.

Like I thought it was instructive how much.

Anger, irritate and mockery there was when the Browns hired Paul de Podesta out of MLB, because like he was going to be coming from a completely different sport, different thinking, And he's actually done a lot of good work for them behind the scenes. And this is not someone who's sticking around for years and years Bob Myers. Maybe he has good ideas. It's like they're looking for the right person to lead them. I don't know what the critique is, like why it's a big problem show.

I don't know if there is a great radio. Guys just need angles and they.

Here's Josh Oris on the path toward new leadership.

Even though this season was hard for me and hard for us. It's hard to win four games from my point of view, we are coming out of this with poised for a great future, a lot of draft capital, a lot of cap space.

Uh.

And I'm lucky enough to be supported by an amazing ownership group, and obviously we think we're an attractive destination for for for the next generation of leadership.

So there you go. I think the best thing you could say if you're a commander's fan. First of all, you got the number two overall picks, so you're gonna most like that helps bring in a quarterback. And this is not Daniel Snyder leading the charge. We don't know, I mean Panthers fans. We're gonna get to the Panthers

And they have requested to talk to an absolute flood of people already for both coach and GM right.

The thing that was interesting though, is they said they were looking for the head of football operations first, so they're just looking for someone to hire the other guys, but they're already starting the coaching interview, so that is a little confusing to me. Supposedly Raheem Morris, Ben Johnson, Aaron Glenn, possibly Jim Harbaugh, some people have said possibly Belichick. So those are some of the assistants, and then a

There you go, and other news.

So I mentioned the Panthers and it's been obviously a rocky year, really a dreadful year all the way around, with David Tepper at the front leading things, coming off a fine for throwing a drink on Jaguars fans and firing the head coach, and Bryce Young struggling through his rookie year and getting shut out again in week eighteen. So they got their starting from rubble right now. And it will not be Scott Fitterer involved with this as well.

It never makes sense to keep the GM, and that's part of what I'm wondering with this Washington thing.

It's like your art.

Maybe it's just they're sending the request, but I do think you want to time this all off. You're going to have a football ops guy, like you got to get that person in the building first, and then the GM, and sometimes you just pair the GM and coach and that's worked out too, Like less Need and Sean McVay had no previous history that worked out. Less Need was already in the building there. But Tepper does not give me much confidence. Josh Harris has already owned a sports team.

I think it's gonna be like the most interesting coaching pathway here because like there's te Tepper has been talking. We know that and it's not the day and well, it's like you like coaches that are smart, and like the Belichick really like literally wrote the book on this. I'm like, you don't go pair up with an owner that you don't feel partnered with empowered by. And it's like who's who's like putting the Panthers on the top of their list.

They've got your saddle with Bryce Young.

You don't know what's gonna go on there, like you're you don't know what's happening with the general manager, and like the owner feels about is hot and cold and all over the place.

Is anyone in the entire league.

I just think it's going to be very interesting to see, like who even decides to interview and who would get farther enough in the.

Process to say yes.

And they've already started asking people, not like, well, you know, chiefs VP of Operation, Brent Tillis, Buck's assistant.

GM, Mike Greenberg, you're in.

We're not going to necessarily know these names that well, but it sounds like they're starting with the GM and then moving on from After.

That, Tepper released a statement, but we did not hear from him on Monday. Fitter had been the GM since twenty twenty one. He was part of the search committee that last offseason hired coach Frank Reich, who was let go after a one and ten start. So, yes, you could not be in a more rocky situation and money talks. Obviously, it's not the most fertile ground for someone to come

That coaching staff under Frank Greg they love to brag, was the highest paid coaching staff in the history of the league. Like all the assistants were doing really well, and they only made it through one year. So those assistants that are still under contract, hopefully they get other jobs and then it's like.

Do they get to double up or is it all? I don't know.

I think that's a real new rise that could be Like talked into the contract. I thought that you don't get paid, you don't double dip. Like if you're Frank Reich and you took another hot head coaching job.

Well, Josh mccownt to find out he was the quarterback.

So Frank Reik right now is like could be he could sit in the Bahamas for the next four years.

Frank's double dipping, he indicated. I think he's he's had enough.

I only goal.

I'm just saying he's making enough money for the next five plus years. Matt Ruled a network in he can signed like an eight year contract under Tepper Right.

And Matt Rule then signed like a seven billion dollar contract in Nebraska. Because that's what with these college guys. They go back to college. Yeah, they find great success and get paid like crazy. So again, see a lot of these coaches, they land on their feet, they bring their guys with them. Hopefully that's what happens with all these Panthers people just kind of fired off upon the hillside, all right. In other news, Mike Frable a lot of

Oh well, I don't know has he met with the Titans yet? I think Ian Rapport said that that meeting is coming. And just the fact that enough insiders are floating this out there, and Ian did it in a very professional way that made it sound like, you know, Mike Rabel likes Ran Karth on their GM, but you know, changes could.

I don't know we're for a percentage. Oh, okay, that's good.

Did you give me the percentage? No, I'll give it. I'm going to give it high because I think this is like a power play. This sounds like a power play move where Rabel is just trying to take as much control as possible.

And I think they want to keep Rabel.

But there was a report, uh again from I believe Diana Orsini, that said he'd be interested in the Patriots job if that but that this feels out of the power play handbook, which is like, we're going to make the Titans bend to my will if I'm Mike Rabel and get what I want, and he might want a little different structure in terms of the front office.

He seemed agitated dating back to the AJ Brown trade.

I mean, he was very like you could see him visually like.

Annoyed in that during that draft process when they traded him away. And I would whenever I hear like coach and GM have some issues, it's just like I kind of automatically just buy that as that's absolutely true.

And Rabel seems to.

Like be slightly annoyed with the way that things have gone with the Titans behind the scenes for a while, and so I had put it at like sixty five percent. He stays, I think if the Patriots job came open, there's gonna be pursuit of him from Craft.

I could see that potentially. Here's that My hot take is Mike Rabel someone to be excited about if you're a Patriots fan. We're five years in. I'm just thinking offense, offense, offense, offense. He's never found And it's the same reason why I don't think Belichick is the right guy to keep right now, because like he just hasn't had answers on offense. It's just been this old school sort of thinking and Rabel cycled through all these coordinators in Tennessee's never really hit

Well quite frankly, That's why.

I've been pushing back a little bit on the Antonio Pierce thing in general. And I have it with my own coach, a defensive coordinator, and sala like, if you don't have an offensive mind a place they can count on, Like I feel like a defensive coach only goes yeah, but so far.

Like Frank Reich, Josh McDaniels. Sure, like Arthur Smith or three of the coaches that just completely fired and failed.

Rabol's a good head coach. Those total disasters that head coach though in terms.

Of but Rabel is a good like Yes, he's defensive minded, but Rabel is a good head coach. And I'd push back a little bit that when they had Derrick Henry, Tannelhill and AJ Brown, like they had something going on there.

It's just they kind of aged out of it.

Doesn't if he doesn't stay with the Titans, I'd be shocked if he didn't get another.

Oh yeah, he I think he would be the bell of the ball and I think the Patriots would be interested. I'm just saying, like, man, that offensive line was bad for four or five year and that I do want someone that is able to problem solve or like.

A well, hence's annoyment with the previous GM and maybe the current one too though.

Yeah, that's only been there for one year too, so I think that feels a little more personal or maybe just that very able doesn't.

Like that's been reported juice.

Yeah, and an arranged marriage that hasn't taken and that's been part of the drama. There in other news the Colts they missed out on the playoffs and heartbreaking fashion on Saturday night. But coach Shane Steiken is not planning to make any major changes to his coaching staff, and that includes defensive coordinator. There's been speculation around DC Gus Bradley, but Stiken said on Monday, I believe in continuity, I'll say that.

He inherited Gus Bradley.

Yeah, and I would say that like for some of the defenses around the league where it's like we need to make a coordinator switch Green Bay other places, like I wouldn't point to the Cults in my top five of that list, like their defense was act even like an asset at times.

I mean, Gus Bradley wasn't a big problem there.

No, they've been fine. And then they worked together in San Diego too. That was San Diego right where Gus Bradley and Steichen were both there at the same time. He's a likable guy, Gus Bradley. He's always surviving, high energy.

Don't don't look at his head coaching record in Jacksonville. I think it might be the worst percentage wise, but he is a good DC and has been for a long time now. In other news, a DC opening is open in the Meadowlands because the Giants have parted ways with Wink Martinel. It's being called a issue where Martinell resigned as the d C. But it is no secret that Wink and Brian Dabele, their relationship is the center of this.

How this all went down.

It was reported during the season that the two were in a quote bad place, and now Wink after, you know, he was really he was really celebrated as was Dable last year forget the Giants back to respectability. But the team sank to twenty seventh overall defense this year, even though they tied for the NFL lead and takeaways with thirty one.

So Wink is a lifer.

Wink will find a job as well, but he's done with Dable and company.

These things change fast.

Reports early this morning from our network from ESPN across the board sources saying the expectation is Don Wing Martindale will return. Hour two later, Brian Dabele gets on the podium is asked about it, says, yeah, I expect both Don Wink Martindale and Mike Kafka, my offensive coordinator, to return, and by the afternoon, the word is out they fired

I like vic I think he could do the job.

In other Giants news, by the way, Saquon Barkley skipped his exit interview telling reporters they know.

How to reach me.

So that sounds like, essentially there's a lot of speculation that Saquon's ready for a fresh start, and perhaps he is after playing that one year deal where a lot of drama around his contract, played through injury and had a nice season and he's probably looking for a fresh start, but you never know. Money talks us.

He did all these good byes in the locker room and everything, and skipping the exit interview at samee they know how to reach me. Yeah, pretty strong stick that he was numb to them, possibly using the franchise tag and again, which actually, isn't that nat idea numb to it?

Like he would deal with it.

It's a lot of money, But excuse me, I don't think he's expecting a long term deal.

Sounded like he wants out.

It shows you how fast the regular season shot by, because I feel like we were just dealing with this like offseason draw in Saquon about.

Four hours ago. The rosehal one oh one free agents.

If Barkley ends up on that list, is he a top eight, top five?

It's a really well right now because no tag has been issued. No, because it's a really good list right now. But he would be in the top fifteen, and that's where he was last year. And I think he looks even better than he did a year ago. Had a nice year.

Put him on the Chiefs or something. Let's go, let's fly.

Uh well maybe not the Chiefs. I would like to see him on it.

Why not?

The Chiefs are now in old Patriots mode whenever a player becomes available, that's kind of spacey.

Then I got a check on He's like, like, who's a who's a contender that really could use.

A Saquon Barkley. Put him on one of those teams and let's see what happens.

I like some Texans Bronx native all right, Texans, yeah they yeah.

They could use the running back. Okay.

In other Metal Lands news, the Jets had their end of season press conferences. Everybody spoke, including Aaron Rodgers, who told the reporters the number one thing the Jets need to do heading into next year is quote, flush the bulls, which I find interesting because Rogers is kind of at the center of so much of the bulls round this team. I mean, we were just coming off Jimmy kimmelgate and and the and all the every week and part of this is about the way our league is covered.

But like every time he does.

The McAfee interview, it's a storyline, and some of these storylines don't have traction, but then some do, like when he says that Jimmy Kimmel might be on the Epstein list that gets released and it becomes kind of an embarrassing situation, which, by the way, I didn't hear from the Jets on that. I heard Disney and ESPN spoke out and and McAfee did damage control on that, but I didn't hear anything from the Jets, which again reminds you the reason you didn't is because Aaron Rodgers runs

All or nothing. You see next year as a playoffs or else rich some meaning.

I always feel that way. I always feel like we need to win.

You know.

It's, uh, this profession, it's a results oriented. No one really cares about process or progress. It's it's about winning and so so for me personally, I always expect to win.

I mean, it's just shifted completely into coach speak at this point. Yeah, he's agays.

There's been times this year where he just didn't have answers and he would just like stare back the reporters with nothing to say. I thought Sol was exposed a little bit this year. But we'll see what happens with the quarterback.

Given their setup, I think it's the right move to stay the course.

Do you think it's the right move with Nathaniel Hackett, like I would say specifically. And that's the one thing where it feels toxic because.

Nathaniel Hackett thinks it's nice to see you out here. It's obviously Aaron's boy.

But it's like that, can't we look at the evidence to suggest that we need to make an upgrader.

Change, but we're not going to. And that's what where it starts to feel ridiculous.

And also, you know, Salla says, you know, in this business, you know it, the only thing that people care about is results, not progress, YadA YadA. He's eighteen and thirty three. Joe Douglas is twenty seven and fifty six. So they are getting a long leaf, yes, kind of an unprecedented leash. And I just I cringe with so many of Sola's press conferences now because you know, he also said yesterday, I think that they exercised a lot.

Of demons this year. It's like, bro, what are you talking about? Because he beat Bill Belichick in Week eighteen. The worst Patriots teams of all time, like what other If you want to count that, I'll even give it. I'll be nice to you because the quarterback got hurt and play for. But tell me what other demons were exercised in your tenure since week one.

I feel like we opened the door and in came a dude, I uh talking about.

I got to give my old boss Florio some credit. I love his headline talking about Rogers. Here the headline, Aaron Rodgers urges Jets to shed bs uh, teases Tuesday ESPN appearance to talk Jimmy Kimmel.

There you go, because yeah, Rogers said, I'm not going to.

Talk to you guys about it to rich Semini, but watch on Tuesday.

I will address it. Then.

That's what That's part of what you signed up for. And I was willing and still am willing to live with it. But the what you were supposed to get is also Aaron Rodgers on the on the field. Yeah, it's it still blows my mind that I get all this, but not the I'd never got to see him play on the field yet.

And and here we are yet hard knock. That was an awesome, awesome run. It was a great summer all.

Right in other news, Dennis Allen not a very popular man in New Orleans. Even after a strong close finish. The Saints finished nine and eight second in the NFC South did not make the playoffs though for the third straight year. However, Dennis Allen said at his end ofca's news conference that when asked if he expects to remain head coach, that is my expectation. Yes, So Dennis Allen,

To him talk. Well.

I apologize to Day because the play was was victory.

But I also explained to d A it was a team decision.

Yet and I think when you're at the team around and I actually got say, guys, like, what do you what do you want to do? We know how much ja mom means to this team, and I understood from DA's perspective, So I give him that, but didn't condone it at all.

You know he didn't. However, Uh we decided as a.

Team to do it, and we got an interception to the one yard linee you know, like so if if we were scored, what would have been disrespected?

I I think it's the most enjoyable thing that's happened in months.

I love he with all due respect.

It's like the fool that doesn't realize really what he's saying is he's speaking that it's actually makes it worse for your coach after you already sold.

Him out on the field.

Then to be like to explain it to the media in a way that actually made does Ald come off worse? Like we decided as a team what we were going to do with no disrespect to DA. It's like, I don't know, man. And then to top it off, here is I just you want to talk about comedy? It got better, Mark, Because then there's some other journal who comes in. I don't know what his deal is. I don't know if he's a Satan beat writer or a Falcon's beat writer, or who he is.

A Saints guy. I'll try to find the name.

He starts to pontificate about his opinions and his feelings respectfully?

Do you think we were great that? Well? You do have to play these guys twice a year, that's all. I'm saying. Music in the back, I know what I'm talking about. You know, somebody's got to fight these guys.

Try to see here, that's all.

How do you feel about it? To me? How you feel about it? Don't you feel good about it? Because you got to these guys twice a year?

But what about it makes you not feel good about it?

To kneeling up, we're asking my opinion, Yes, I think you should have kneeled it up. Okay, Well, I'm just telling you as respectfully is I can't you answered my question as respectfully as you and I not agree as.

Respectfully as I can respects you just a meal.

The entire team made that decision, Okay, so you disagree with that entire team, so thank you. No, I'm just thinking I'm being honest and respectful.

And that's what I am doing, and that's what I am doing.

And the siren and the club music going off in the background.

I just can't make it up there.

There was one part that was that part of that clip, and I recommend anyone find the whole three minutes. It's great where he was like, where he did kind of let the mask fall out a little bit, where he's like, so the you know, the first forty one points that didn't that make you upset? It was the last seven that did it. It was just like, I love it, but you know what I did think it was kind

The I think the robbery Listen, I would love to be friends with Jameis Winston. Yeah, I mean, I'm gonna win a playoff game before Jameis Winston does. Though, like there, I'm sure he's a great guy and a great teammate, but he is a goober man.

I don't know.

I kind of like, like, I know, I really enjoyed he's like goobery answered.

He went through that conversation that respect.

He's like Dennis Allen does not condone it. However, well, like doubling back into his own logic, it.

Was over the second he goes, yeah, I apologize, but it was a team decision, which is so funny because like Tennis, Allen's the coach of the team and he's like, no, this is our team.

But I don't does he realize does he realize in his in what he's saying that he is essentially selling out.

Yes, I think they know he knows.

I think he knows and this was I'm taking this from some of the writers that he knows he's not going to be back there, he knows he might not be a favorite at Dentis. I don't think any of these things are made in a vacuum. So when people saying like, then his.

Alnd's lost a little bit of the control, I think that's true.

I think, Oh, I mean, I think like Jamis is just saying, like, I'm out of here.

We're gonna do whatever the hell we want, right, you know you could. I know everything's awesome. So I'm just saying that was kind of a messed up thing to do. That's all I hear that. I mean, I think the interview was awesome. Yeah, it makes I'm just saying I know that everything is always like, oh, it's so amazing.

Everything is amazing.

That was a tough, tough situation for Arthur Smith, a tough situation for the Falcons there at.

The end of his tenure. And then, yes, you know.

That there are elements of it that I would I'd be if it was your team, you'd be furious, but that way, but that's the rivalry. Also, the Falcons and the Saints, and it makes next to even more exciting.

I think Falcons fans are so mad at that team. They were like, we deserve it, and I think we as fans, we would keep it all in perspective, which is part of what I enjoyed about Jamis as Yes, in the context of what went on, I guess it's a serious conversation, but it's not the most serious saying that has ever happened in the world.

And you could almost see he was having a little fun with it.

The wild eyes he has too. I love wild eyes. Jes says, all right, let's take a break and then we'll close the door on some regular season predictions and then get out of here.

Yes, the familiar chimes chimes' is a harp. Those that seem more like a harp, what would you call that? Then?

I've never played a harp, though, so that I'm not coming from a place of authority.

A plucking and.

That's a plucking of the strings of the harp, which means it could only mean one thing. It's new Horizons Monday. Greg, you were in a band. It was an acid, prog rock, emo outfit. Did you ever play the harp with Delaware.

No, there were a variety of instruments. We had some talented musicians, Andy Moody, Kristin Hinkley, Jeff lash I was not a talented musician.

What was your role?

My sister in law, Karen, though, can play the cello. That's I don't know. Is that a harp, that's a cello. Your brother is a gifted guitarist.

Oh, yeah, he is. He's a what do you call when you play a bunch of stuff? He is a in every man's instrument. But yes, guitar and piano certainly.

Uh do you Perhaps you should have recruited him to Delaware and maybe you'd be touring the world right now.

But his music is a little more refined below now.

Back then, though, he was playing clubs and stuff with like, you know, white sneak type music. But yes, he did end up kind of conducting, writing classical music.

He ended your brother an actual musician. What did he how old?

He's older? Right? Five years older? Yeah? What was his first reaction when he told him that you were in a band.

He was in college and couldn't have cared less and probably didn't ask me any questions for about a six year.

Well, I mean he was off in Montreal doing it, but you were. You were like the lead singer, lead vocals. Yeah, he was on totally. There was other people would sing, but yes I was the most were the principal songwriter of Delaware as well. No, Andy Moody was, but I was number two. We were kind of like Lennon McCartney.

Sure, I would say Andy Moody quietly was the key behind the whole operation.

But yes, I wrote some songs as well, such age give us a title.

Nordic track. I remember that good one Nordic track.

You closed the show with Nordick track. That's a big hit. Yeah, when will you release the tapes? Finally where we move on? I don't have the tapes, not aware of any tapes.

Why did you write a song about a treadmill a society?

Was this feeling like you're ocular tread and you can't get all.

No, that's a good I'm wondering if that's you felt that way at that age that you were already on a treadmill despite being in an emo band.

Was you're.

You're just big fans of Nordichic. I think it was about it was a great piece of equipment.

Was like, despite all my rage, I'm still just a rat in the cage. I think that was Greg's interpretation of that thematically. How do you know I'm a big fan of Delaware? You've never heard like a bar of it?

Not yet. I will find some other song titles I'll go look for.

All right, and again word the word is out on the streets. If you have any connection to the Bandelaware, which came out of Worcester, Mass in the late nineties early two thousands, and you have access to a tape, any type of.

Dem Wibraham Mass, not Worcester close, we gotta find this. We gotta find this.

Andrew Moody guy like it sounds like we've got a name Andrew Moody.

Anybody connected to this band Delaware? Greg's brother Maybe Greg in a moment as a teenager, he looked to his big brother and said, hey, Dean, this is what I've been working on. And maybe he handed the tape over. The brother has a tape possible, Hayden Row he checked this out.

Let me know what you think. It's it's our debut album, which was called how do You Want To Cooked? How do you want to cooked, I believe, fresh off the presses. Let us know what you think. Maybe that tape sitting somewhere. No, Dean had no injury.

I mean, I don't know, but you had any older siblings, but five years older. He was not too involved in what his high school brother doing Back then.

He was like, I bet there's like a grainy VHS tape of someone who taped one of their concerts, like a backyard type of situation sitting out there, like.

Play Boston Garden or something. It's got to be something out there. We've spent a lot of time on this. Well, it's the most important thing we've talked about today. All right, let's get into our over unders. Okay, So before the season started, we did ap with Barnwell, which is a tradition where we each picked I believe, four teams and based the over unders off draft kings before the season started. So let's go through each of ours. We'll start with the Zazzer. Let's see how I did this year, and

They got six and eleven by a game and a half.

And the Browns went eleven and six, So I hit that easily. I lost my last two, so I went two and two. The Buccaneers, I hit the under. I was not high on Baker and the Bucks this year. They end up getting to nine wins and winning their division. And then the Jets. I'm you know, that's not fair. It was nothing fair about the Jets, but Rogers gets hurt. So I hit the I wanted to hit the over at nine and a half, but didn't come close. To Jets finished seven and ten, so two and two.

It's interesting.

I think the Bucks under they were predicted to come and last behind the Panthers. Panthers were seven and a half. They were at six and a half.

Well, they showed kind of promise last year and then added a first round pick.

All right, let's move to Greg, who's had a big year with all sorts of predictions this year. Oh stop it, Greg, Greg won four and oh says dog. I got to say something Greg. First of all, before we get into this.

I'm happy for Greg.

I'm impressed I and you know, I've always been very complimentary of your great knowledge of the game.

And your passion for it.

But I've also been doing this with you for a decade and I want, I just want you to appreciate this, okay, because you've never been like this year, with whether it's the game picks or what we're back. You were on a heater this year, and I just I just hope do you appreciate I am appreciated.

That's why I was honking so much last night and teasing my potential timer because I know it will not continue.

It will be like this is amazing. It's dark days, what is your record?

I will say, of all the of any of the predictions, game debut or the locks or whatever, I think the over unders. Still luck is maybe the most important factor, but I think it's the it's the one, it's the least amount of life. I think these are the ones I would care about the most.

Because I think you went sixteen and two or seventeen and two in the locks, and you went four and oh, so let's go through them. You took the Panthers under, which was a home run seven and a half, and they end up, of course two and fifteen, the worst team in football. You always down on the Giants, so you bang the under at seven and a half and the Giants almost come and get you with it.

Only got sex.

But yes, but I think they were one and seven and one point. They had a nice second half all things considered.

Those two were good. The other two were more lucky.

You bang that one and you hit it well. The Bears you had seven and a half on the man, you really are you stilling it this year?

Fuddy?

They were seven and nine going into Week eighteen, and then everybody was optimistic about that Packers game. But they get beat so they stay at seven wins. So you hit that at seven and a half and the Bill, you son of a god. The Bills down in the fourth quarter on Sunday Night football, sitting at staring at ten and seven.

At six and six, they needed to win five streets to get that.

Over, and you hit the ten and a half over behind a five game winning streak to get to eleven and six.

Bravo, sir, well done, Greg. I mean, I what can you say, Mark, I.

Don't have anything else to say. It's I'm very I said, I'm excited for Greg.

I mean, if I honestly and you guys know this, if I ever had the season Greg had, that would be it. I'm gone. I am, I am going. I'm taking a radio about somewhere in Long Island.

How is this naked? I?

Why do I feel like I probably went oh and four to balance this out?

Well?

I went to and too.

He was mentally tracking throughout the year. I have to admit they didn't matter to me.

I was by the way I had all this.

Greg's children advanced the finals against each other in their fantasy football league.

It's nothing if not impressed of opulence.

Unbelievable game, deviut Curious finished off the regular season title there too, part over a centur some very difficult Greg.

I am impressed and just filled with rage to be this close to greatness but not have it myself.

Good for you, sir.

So you say two and two for Zeuser four and oh for Greg, you're saying that naturally you would have to go.

Zero and four. I mean, I'm just suggesting that's the narrative of this show. So probably that in that. But he can't make up what you went? No narrative? All right? No, I mean my own narrative that I created. All right, Sess what'd you do? Oh?

No?

Are you? He went on and four? Oh? Everyone check us out on YouTube.

We've got fancy graphics and most important, you could have Mark's facial reaction to this. And I've heard from some people last week they didn't even know we were on YouTube.

A also go think all right, so sess, dog Craig gets the pitching for the show too.

I look at I let's go through it. Okay. Yeah?

So you h Bangley under on the Ravens, who obviously the a best team in football, finished thirteen and four. You saw them as going under ten and a half.

I thought they'd be like a playoff team maybe, but and then you went under ten and a half.

That and I remember this having this conversation because I took the Browns over. You took the Rounds under nine and a half. And of course they win eleven and they're going to the playoffs. So maybe that was kind of protecting yourself a little bit. But you lost that. You have the Chiefs over. Oh, this one's annoying.

I mean, I don't hate that I did that back then.

The Chiefs they've been almost they almost always hit the over.

Greg right, eleven. I believe they had hit it for the last like six straight years. Right. This was the different market picked him.

Yes, And just like I took Mahomes I think third in my fantasy draft before Christian McCaffrey. This was the year everything changed. The Chiefs over eleven and a half. They have the worst eleven win season that I can remember for any team. Uh so you get ding done that and then I mean, the the optimism around the Falcons was real. You had the over eight and a half and they finished what.

Seven and ten? That's for the third year in a row.

I got pulled into Falcons Land, you know, plus these other lands.

Yeah, how about that with Arthur Smith? Three straight, seven and tens. That's so we finished five hundred as a group. If you look at it that way. I like that. How about that mark? You're only as good as your weakest link.

So Greg unbelievable. I'm uncomfortable with Dan saying these things.

I'm uncomfortable. I just I've never been around someone that's been this hot. I think you missed one rain maker all year.

I think that was four and one, Yeah, that I lost track of. But yeah, something like that.

How can we monetize, Greggs, I'd say, leave the NFL and move to Las Vegas.

Well, we're not allowed to do any of this stuff. We're not allowed.

I didn't say beat. We monetize. That's how I would monetize.

But before I came here, you know, I did some of that, and you you you would have. You know, you want to have some big years. You're not gonna have a big year every year. You want to like survive in the years that aren't big years and then have some big years.

And this is a big year. There. You got advice for me to take.

Let's check now, let's check in on our running back draft, which was obviously a source of major consternation. Now this is one place where Greg somehow comes out on top.

Here.

I'm walking out of here because Greg famously butchered the draft back in June.

But now we could use insights now even evaluate.

Let's start. Let's do the same thing. Let's go Dan first. Let's see what I got. All right, so I had Nick Chubb wolf But you know, what are you gonna do? Austin Eckler?

Hold on? He can't?

We can we view Nick Chubb as who he really is versus the season he had.

Well, let's just look at it through the prism of the season for now. But because I yeah, obviously Chubb is an all.

Time seventy yards, didn't score a touch and.

Then blew out his knee in hideous fashion on a Thursday night in October, I believe was Austin Eckler.

I don't know what happened to Eckler. That's a miss. He totally fell off the map.

Josh Jacobs another guy I started very slowly and then started to find himself, had some big games and then got hurt at the end of the year and then Breis Hall. Of the four, this is the one I was least comfortable with. He ends up going over fifteen hundred yards of total offense for the Jets, a very bad offense pick if this is bad, so yeah, so obviously hit on Haul and then Chubb.

What are you gonna do? But Eckler and Jacobs I missed on.

They just didn't have great years, all right, So not that not that hot for Zuzzer. Okay, let's go to Greg Rosenthal, all right, Bijon Robinson who very frustrating year for Bijon did have moments, including a long touchdown reception in week eighteen, but not the guy we all thought he was going to be. Alvin fourteen a miss touchdowns though, did he have fourteen hundred from scrimmage?

Not a total, not a miss or anything.

Not a miss, I think, but not a big we were expecting him to be, you know, a seismic lanb not his fault though, not his fault.

I think he has huge years ahead of him.

Alvin Kamara, suspended to start the year, had a steady year, but he's not the same guy anymore.

He's he was okay, he was.

Fine eleven and sixty yards and six touchdowns, again from scrimmage, not rushing right.

In fact, he is three straight years. I read this, He's been under four yards of carry for three straight years, which you don't.

See a lot. So Kamara has fallen off a little bit.

Jonathan Taylor a guy who obviously started with a contract hold out and everything the injury about that.

He warmed up as the season went along.

So Taylor and then Aaron Jones, who did nothing for the first two and a half months of the season but finished strong with three hundred yard games.

Pretty good, pretty good.

Group that looks better than it looks a lot better than it did at other times during the season though, because Taylor became I.

Was very negative afterwards and people came at me, and in the end they were fine.

This solid job mark coming off the four, right, let's win this running back draft.

You can't I know, I know one of them is right. Let's see, let's check out marks four.

And he had the first pick I remember, and he had Christian McCaffrey, so that's a big win.

And Saquon Barkley.

So McCaffrey had maybe his best year, which is saying something incredible and might be the offensive Player of the year as a result, Saquon Barkley slowed down, banged up down the stretch. But I really thought Barkley had a good season overall, bad team, you know, bad team.

Two hundred yards from scrimmage, ten touchdowns, so like a better Camara, but he just looked better if you just watched it. Like the numbers are similar, but he was better.

Derrick Henry, like Alvin Kamaros, it's pretty clear that he's not the same dude, but you saw even in Week eighteen that he still has juice in the tank.

And then he'll get a job next year.

And I think he's a Hall of Famer, so a nice guy to have there.

And then Ramadre.

Stevenson, who quietly because I had him on my fantasy team, I remember tracking him. He was like all the bad stuff going around the Patriots. He was the one guy that was steadily just going about his business and I thought he was having a pretty good year until.

Got a high ankle sprain. Yeah, ended his year. Mark. If you won the around the NFL running back strap, give it to you, Mark, Yeah, I think I think, so give it up. Thank you, this is your life.

I wish I could feel as much in the victory that I know Greg feels in winning the things.

They got to take a shot, but no, I'm not taking a shot at all. I really not. It's just like it's I don't know where it's supposed to carry me. Unbelievable, emotionally unbelievable.

Finally, before we say goodbye, let's go through the go get my lunch props. Ready, sest dog, we none of us really had a very good year. Yeah with this one, So sess dog, here were your predictions. A kicker breaks the record for longest field goal that's more than sixty six yards during a Titans Ravens game in London. Nope, lost two sandwiches there, Rams Trade Matthew Stafford.

You were very hot, I was.

You were very down on the Rams Yep, very hot on Stafford being moved. He obviously didn't move and then had a huge year. He lost three sandwiches there, including till Lakeisha Dak Prescott his bench for perform Orman's reasons.

I mean, yeah, these are huge. Whoa, that's a bit I was.

You have to remember, like like when I create these, like the Stafford one, not so much, but like I'm doing this for the show like I like Showman.

I mean this Shamo. You're believing that Dak Preslett's going to be bad. I think there is a world where he was great.

I think things could have gone real south for the Cowboys maybe and Dak gets caught in like the crosshairs of it all, and that did not happen on there's probably around.

The time of the Trey Lance trade. So in your mind you're like, oh, then they'll play Trey Lance or something. Yeah, weird stuff happens. And then finally a Star QB loses at least one start to see now this is the cesstog ones. The other ones are just predictions gone awry. A Star QB loses at least one start due to an off field incident involving a problematic individual dressed in

Thank you Nick. That cost you three sandwiches as well, is it?

So that ends with that ended with yesterday's Bill's Dolphins game.

We'll give you the playoffs about that. Less acts over here and.

It has to be a can it be a player who's not you know, not currently anything like.

The loosest calibration of this. We'll give it to you, Greg Rosenthal. Justin Herbert finishes higher in MVP voting than Patrick Mahomes.

We don't know yet, but I will lose two on that because they neither will get a vote zero.

Yeah, so that's a loss. The Lions win the NFC North. You got that, very good guy. You guys took me up on that, took you.

Up on it. Mac Jones finished. This is when I teased on the Sunday Show.

Mac Jones finishes ahead of Daniel Jones in the QB Index, which Dan and Mark took you up on. And apparently when Shook puts together the final version will have every quarterback. And I do not imagine even though Daniel Jones didn't do squat this year, that Jones would be ahead of him.

So that might be at the very bottom.

I'm gonna lose that, which is you know, right, Church wrong, Pew. Daniel Jones, out of sixty eight starters, will probably not be in the top forty, but he will be ahead of Mac Jones.

There's no way.

Let's see how far apart the ar because it shouldn't be too too far, all right, So like you were down on the rams, I just had this like weird feeling about the Lions flopping, which was obviously wrong because I have the Lions never claim sole possession of first place in the NFC North and they win on Thursday night against the.

Chiefs historically bad Darius drops all those balls and they get beat by one point. So they won the North. So let alone one day. They were there every day pretty much, or was it every day? Did they ever fall out of first place on that division?

No? I don't think they did. No wire to wire the Big Old.

If you to Daddy Rich, DeVante Adams or Mike Evans will be traded prior to the twenty twenty three trade deadline.

Oh I like that one, but it just because I was thinking.

You're the Bucks crash Raiders, bad Bucks, bad Davante.

Yeah, Sovante was like talking a lot back then. Things seen.

I think one or both of those guys aren't a new team next year.

But that was not the wager.

So it cost me to JJ Watt plays in twenty twenty three.

Who I took you up on that?

Only Greg though took me up at the mark you stayed away. I love when the stayaways happened.

Because I think that made like some interesting sense.

I don't know, but by the way, there's still a few weeks left and TJ watches got hurt.

Maybe the Steelers pick up the phone. JJ did break that news that he's out for these two games, and he's such a Steelers what if?

What if JJ filled in for Nick for two weeks until he came back or TJ.

I mean, it's such a Steelers thing to do. How about naming your kids JJ and TJ. How about that? Well?

Or you or you name them what they're, what they stand for. And then they decided they weren't into those names, and you know, condensed all right.

So I wasn't in on the Falcons, but I did believe in Bijon enough to say Nick Chubb or Bjeon Robinson lead the NFL and rushing Chubb. We discussed blow out his knee Bejeon was trapped in.

I didn't take you up on that, which was stupid. I was. I was all in on Bijon. Uh, this one is right.

Nick has this listed as a loss, but I don't know why Tom Brady is commenting commentating games for five by twenty twenty four. There's a report just came out that he's working on it, and it's.

By twenty twenty four.

Right this season, he needs to do it this upcoming season twenty twenty four.

I no longer would have taken that.

I'm hoping we are right, Mark, But it starts the signs are looking poor, and then this is.

This is kind of a cess dog one which I like the birds. Remember the birds falling out of the sky in Mexico.

Yeah, well, sory. It happened during super Bowl Week.

I said that will be the first of several unexplained phenomenon over the next two years. So I have until next February on that one. So that one, I guess is just sitting out there.

Still. Did that get created like at some other time that was created?

I think super Bowl Week because it happened like a couple days before the game, and my cousin Mike I brought to the Super Bowl, who's a big UFO and conspiracy guy, And remember going down a wormhole with him in the hotel room in Arizona that I was pretty hot to trot about more stuff happening.

But you know, maybe it does. Maybe it has.

Any other conspiracy tinfoil people out there, let me know if I've missed anything in the past.

Long I'm sure people can come up with them several unexplained phenomenon if they just want to.

And Mark, you did not true to form, take me up on that. But Greg, of course, Dad, He's like, Ah, there is no such thing as I'll expin for a something like that.

I don't like the two year part of it. I think that's why I didn't get attached to that.

Uh.

Eric Roberts. Now, the producers have a famously messy reputation when it comes They never win a sandwich prop However, the Bills outsack and out intercept the Jets.

I like this one, And where do we come down on it? Oh? You got it?

No it Bills eighteen interceptions, Jets seventeen ten this season. Oh stop it. So it was the I on the wrapt the wrap one not only locked up the East Division?

What I so of them?

We were going back and forth actually about the Jets defense kind of balling out in that game against the Patriots and the Bills outsacked the Jets fifty four to forty eight.

So wait, as it says you lost it here.

I think it was mistaken. I don't know.

He has some data points there that don't appear to be accurate.

Yep, So they were close. It was close. I think you hit it.

I think the Bills went into Week eighteen like plus thirteen in sacks, but the Jets and play that week and then yeah, there was a two interception swing in the Jets game, so they actually went into the final game of season down one, but then that wrap one. Yeah, so big win for me. Guys, Let's give some of everything coming up. Everything's coming up, and I have a kid.

Three sangwiches he gets, and that is honestly, that is a big deal because.

The producers never win.

Yeah, but the producers are each different individual people, so it's not going to predict how Eric would do.

I'm just saying historically, they's this was coming out of hard knock seasons, so we spent a lot of time watching the Jets, me and you getting pumped up in defense. So I thought something okay, good, you know, something tracked throughout the year and actually came down to the wires and they were.

Two good defenses. And the Bills statistically in those categories.

When that interception, Eric, were you aware that that was winning? You saying yes, Wow, I wish we knew that.

That is what a moment because me and Dan we're talking about it and I don't think yeah. And then I knew there was a swing because of the two in the morning game, and then that was good.

There was the one in two.

I'm a little surprised that the Bills outsacked the Jets. Jets had a lot of guys that were like around six, seven, eight sacks. I didn't realize Buffalo's pass rush with no Von Miller was that fierce. But good for you. Were they top five?

Let's see here the sacks where they would be one, two, three, four, fifty four behind Dolphins with fifty six, Chiefs with fifty seven, and Rams with sixty and then the Jets were somewhere down towards the middle.

Interesting. Okay, and one more.

This one's not official, but we got a major hit from Lakeisha. Speaking of Alakeisha, we did a NFL Plus that's coming up a little bit later this month where we're going through all the Super Bowls in recent years, and we talked about the incredibly difficult super Bowl around

A little surprising, Greggy. I think, just in the spirit of.

Forget about top three, he might win it unanimously.

And Lakeisha's mom one of the bigger Lamar Jackson around, And I think Lamar Jackson kind of brought Lakeisha's mom into football.

That's absolutely right. She loves Lamar. She loves Lamar. Oh, we got a clay bound one too. Jalen Rager had over forty.

Catches in twenty twenty when was this If you recall that was that was come down.

If I had known that, I would have enjoyed the bizarre Jets Patriots game on Sunday where Jalen Rager was suddenly the Patriots number one receiver. Regretted that out he did not come close to forty It's seven, okay.

Seven catches for Jalen Rager. Getting behind the Pats offense is always a tricky proposition, all right. So there you go. There are sandwich props. Maybe we'll do a couple Super Bowl week we tend to do that. We make one Super Bowl prediction and that's it. So here's the rest of the week. On Wednesday, we're gonna have Connie Fox

Anything else, boys, I think we covered it. This is a big week.

Good job, good job everybody. Thank you everybody for listening. And remember

When all else is lost, it's a new Horizon Heat the car