They Around the NFL podcast, What's not the oldest person at Coachella? Londy was there too, Thank you very much.
From the Chris Leslie podcast studio. It's around the NFL. I'm Dan Hansis, Greg Rosenthal, Mark Sessler here, and yes, the time has come. I liken this to the particularly high profile Aaron Rodgers appearances on the Pat McAfee show, when suddenly you're hosting a much larger audience than typical. So we welcome music fans right now. And the time has come now for Mark Sessler's review of Frank Ocean's
controversial weekend closing set at Coachella. Greg, I think the right move here is for us to just kind of get out of the way and let Mark monologue this and take us through boots on the ground. Mark, there's a huge global audience here right now. Pins and needles for days, they waited on Monday Prize and disappointed. Now they're back.
I could give you a more comprehensive review of snail Mail, which was occurring during the daytime. I had a very atypical strange weekend. It was wonderful, but I didn't stay for the latest stuff.
Uh night after night. Wait, but we've planned out the schedule.
The way to actually set up a segment like this would be to check with me on what I actually witnessed and saw with my own eyes, because you knew that.
On Monday and he really built this up.
I was I thought Bad Bunny was amazing. Did you see any of that? Like I didn't brought out post malone and there was a massive technical glitch that caused problems among the people there live.
It was I don't know if you've been, but it was fun.
I've never been.
It was a like I one of my main goals was to avoid like a dangerous sunburn, which I partially did.
I believe correct. And I'm a big snail mail fan, so I like the shout out. I've seen them.
They were a few times. So for the Frank Ocean audience.
Yeah, we just don't we don't have I think it's isn't it.
Isn't it like sort of on brand that I would go to this and not come back with like the You and I might have different goals when we'd go there, and I maybe missed some of the things that would have been high on your list.
So did you go?
It was late night. You were saying that they went to one in the morning every night. You didn't think got shut down oceans Uh late, It's.
Been a lot of recording since then.
There was I want to be an ice skating rink, all these people that they had hired, uh, and then they didn't see an ice skating right now.
He suffered an ankle injury on a bike on the Coachello grounds. Did you catch that or any of that about? No?
So what I did was like went around like ten to eleven in the morning because it is so crowded that if you go during the day, everything is wide open. And so I do more like ten to eight, eight or nine, and then went back and watched some of the later stuff on.
A live YouTube feed.
Would you go back, absolutely, because I think I next time I'd know how to attack completely differently. I was, you know, total new be early.
What are your feelings on the youth of America? Is the future bright?
I think it's fantastic.
Corporation people were great, There was not I was not the oldest person, by the way. There are definitely other people floating around of my age set. But you know, I would say there's it would unquestionably in the older rung of ages.
All right, justin, did you have anything before we move on? Oh?
Shoot, you caught me half guard. No, I hope Mark had a great time.
I mean, who is this even talking?
I don't even know Mark?
Did you have fun? That's all that really came.
I had a time. I'm sorry.
I cannot give you a completest review on each of the acts. You know you're you know, no, no, sweat No, I mean I floated. We built it up.
We got the audience. Yeah, and they learned a hard lesson here.
I think they did, so did I? Next time, I'll I'm going to be more cautious on my return.
Coming up today on around the end of fell Oh my god, Jesus, take the wheel, take us the draft night. We're not there yet. We got more. We got more draft talk coming up. But we're lucky to have someone that's excellent in this realm and really the NFL overall in terms of coverage, Ben Solak from The Ringer. We're gonna have him on to talk about some of the the kind of outliers and some of the oddities of
the twenty twenty three NFL Draft. It's kind of a weird draft, especially in like the measurables department.
I think he also explains it really what what he what he means by that, and what it means for the future of the draft too, is intriguing.
These are these are human beings.
So we're gonna got it change the you know, we're not gonna call it the freaks of the Draft, but it's kind of like you know who, who's kind.
Of like that headline Okay, yeah, like that's pretty good.
Sort of what they are specimens?
Yeah, guys who stand out a little bit. Maybe we haven't hit us hard and stuff.
Physical specimens.
Yeah, you want just freaks. That sounds like it's something Ana tests to the freak show.
That is the twenty twenty three NFL Draft. Look Away freaks. This is a showman right here, look away slammer. Freaks of the twenty twenty twenty twenty three NFL Draft. Not bad.
I think it's you've got something to sing with there.
They're hideous colon all right, Before that, let's hit some.
News party back time Pump snagging a throw for the.
Episode Wide Open Gray that are you touchdown?
Sad Friend? Just go?
Are you?
Are you his on fire, your foe is propped, Party Doo, monsters, Comma, all of them.
Colon breaking down the twenty twenty three NFL draft.
You're a storehouse of contents.
Rock Purdy, he took the league by storm late in the most recent NFL season. Mister Irrelevant, as he's known, the final pick in the draft, stepped in a quarterback for the Niners after injuries to Trey Lance and Jimmy Garoppolo and thrived and although he suffered a serious elbow injury in the NFC playoffs, the Niners are very high on Purty and see him as the future of the position, which takes us to a report from NFL Networks Ian Rapaport on Wednesday. He said that the Niners have fielded
calls from teams interested in trading for Trey Lance. Rapaport added, the Niners have not actually picked up the phone themselves to dial up any teams, but they have answered the phone when teams have inquired about his availability. Ian added, no trade is imminent, but you know those things can change quickly, and they want to make sure Perdy's rehab is going well. But there's interest in Lance from other teams. Mark,
You're back, so I'll tee you up. I know you are a big, pretty guy, big forty nine ers guys, big forty nine ers guy, and Trey Lance was once the future. They traded up a huge amount of capital to get him, and this is the first kind of open sign that they might be looking to kind of cut ties and move on.
I wouldn't be surprised if something like this happened. I think the big problem pr wise for a rather teflon John Lynch and Kyle Shanahan, I mean extremely like they haven't really needed Trey Lance over these past couple of years they've still gotten deep into the playoffs.
Is after you gave up so much on.
A quarterback that has essentially barely been able to be on the field, it looks like today as a big of a quarterback with as you could find, and somehow that stink doesn't really stick to Kyle Shanahan and company, what do you get back for him? Because it's like that there's no way for them to win that battle, And it's like, yes, you're also you're at that point gauging in hope, being that the small sample size you got from brock Purty is who he really is because
just the league is gonna catch up. And it makes me think of our friend Chris Wrestling when we got that six game sample size from Jimmy G after they traded for Jimmy G a couple of years ago, and he looked like the second coming of Joe Montana, and then we got the real version of him, which was much more variable. Do you do all this and do you go into next season after quarterback depth has been their issue year after year? Do you possibly move on
Trey Lance? And then going to next season with that quarterback position being like Rock Purty or Bust It's party?
And then right now, Sam Darnold, Greg, let me see you up. Just by reminding people what they gave up to get Trey Lance. They traded with the Dolphins right before the twenty twenty one draft. They got the number three pick in exchange for the number twelve pick that year, the first and third round pick in twenty twenty two, and the first round pick this year. So they paid dearly to get this guy, right.
It was essentially a similar trade to what the Panthers just gave up to get number one one. Overall, that's what it costs two extra first and then the extra pick and you still gave up, you know, the trade down in that draft, and we haven't seen him play. He's had one hundred and thirty two snaps dropping back to pass in the NFL, and half of them were in them monsoon And so people like to throw out Lance's numbers in that game.
I watched that game. It was just forget about it.
It was a preposterous game.
And the other times, though, he hasn't looked totally ready to go in terms of his little regular season action, made a couple of nice plays his preseason action. You know, he's looked like a guy who needed development, which isn't surprising for a guy who didn't play that much in college and played at North Dakota State. I think you don't worry about what you get back if it's like reasonable.
I mean, the Lions just traded Jeff Okuda, who was the number three overall picking the draft, what just one one draft after Lance or one draft before him, like the exact same, you know level, and they got a fifth round pick back and you move on. If they could get like a second for Trey Lance, I think they would take it. And I think the fact that Ian is reporting this, and the way you framed it, Dan,
I think was was smart. The way Ian reported this makes you think like this is very much like the forty nine ers a year ago putting out similar reports that they're getting offers about Jimmy g Now, maybe history is instructive there nothing ever happened, but it really feels like it's the forty nine ers who are putting up a little bit of a for sale sign here on Trey Lance, which would tend to make you think it spells the end of him.
This is this is fantasy, it's fugazy, it's but there is like logic to that twenty twenty one NFL draft which started with Trevor Lawrence and moved to Zach Wilson, then to Trey Lance top three, mac Jones taking seven or eight picks after that, God, Trey Lance for mac Jones. Doesn't that make some sense? Trey Lance from Zach Wilson, I don't know.
Like Field set Wait was fin O Fields was in there too, and then mac n at fifteen, right, So.
I mean that when you look at that, obviously Lawrence is a hit, Zach Wilson is a bust. Right now, Trey Lance is you know, trending toward bus, but he still hasn't played enough justin fields. The Bears think that's a big hit, and Mac Jones is this big question mark.
I just wonder what Trey Lance's market is because the things he has working for him that, for instance, the Jets don't have with Zach Wilson, who I'm sure they would like to trade if they could, is Zach Wilson played a fair amount and not only showed that he was injury prone, he showed that he wasn't playing at a high level and then handled some things poorly with the media. Lance is still kind of a mystery on some level.
Yeah, I mean, I think also the Mac Jones thing is interesting is obviously there's some connective tissue to Kyle Shanahan. I don't know how Zach Wilson would ever be involved in a trade for Trey Lance. I think you can still look at Trey Lance and say untapped potential. There's a lot of teams think they probably could do with him. There are tools there. He just had extremely light college experience and has extremely late NFL experience, So it's an unknown.
I had a team that stands out though, to me a little bit, because it keep feeling like we hear hearing that the Texans are not interested in maybe taking a quarterback at number two. You've got Demigo Ryans, who knows Trey Lance. You got Bobby Slowick, their new offensive coordinator, who was the passing game coordinator under Shanahan, who worked
closely with Lance. They'd at least know what they think they're dealing with, and you could get them for cheap and then use those first round picks to make your team better.
That could make some sense, like the Titans could make some sense. I mean, I don't doubt in any way Ian's reporting. So he's saying that they're fielding calls, and he's clear to point out they're not making them. Now, if you're Trey Lance reading this reporting, I don't know if you are that invested in the parenthetical that they're not making them. I think you see these reports and you're not too excited about it if you're Trey Lance.
But I don't doubt that teams are making those calls, and I'm sure those calls are like how low is this price? Essentially because I'm sure a team like the Titans would take on Trey Lance if the price was like a compensatory third round pick, I doubt it's that low, and it's figuring out during the draft how low will the forty nine ers go. Like the Lions, for instance, again with the number three pick, I know was a cornerback and as one year older, they basically were just
ready to give away Jeff Okuda no matter what. They had decided that Alan Robinson, who will talk about later, the Rams were gonna give him away no matter what. I don't think the forty nine ers are at that point.
I think they're closer to where they were with Jimmy g a year ago, which is if they don't get the right price, and I'm just gonna guess A two sounds about right for them, then maybe they just hold on to him one more year and see what happens as a backup, because it's too late that his peak value is gone. It reminds me a little of another Tray with the Hawks, Tray Young right now, it's like the value it's too late for to trade different sports.
I know it's you know, it's not the same as the NFL, but in some ways.
It's as completely different than basketball in that case.
It may not be maybe maybe not.
It really makes the like if you were better cool of.
Green Day, you know, his value was higher maybe in two thousand and four. Now what are you gonna get?
I've just say, six year old.
You have all the possible mark drops the things he said, it's kind of bizarre. That's the one that's been hammered the most on this Pots got.
Legs, legs for days. Last thought before we move on, because we got to move because we've got Sola coming up. Butterfly effect dog like Rock Party was the last pick of the draft. They had no intentions of playing them. And now you fast forward a few months, half a year, and he is there, locked and loaded future right now they think they let Jimmy g go. They're gonna trade potentially number two three pick from a couple of years ago. And then it's Sam Darnold who's backing up Rock Party.
It's like there's a lot invested in Party being the real deal now in San Francisco, unless, unless there's something else up San Francisco's sleeve. Let's move on. Yes, Alan Robinson, he is on the move. I was a little surprised that they found a taker the Los Angeles Rams. But and you look at the trade terms and it's like, okay, the Steelers acquire wide receiver Alan Robinson, who was really pretty terrible, let's face it, with the Rams and his
one year there. So the Steelers get Robinson and a seventh round pick from the Rams for a seventh round pick. And this is important as well, Gregie. Los Angeles will pay ten point two to five million of Robinson's fifteen point twenty five million salary, and they get to move up seventeen spots in the draft.
Still seventeen spots in the seventh round. There can be a lower total. I mean that anyone can be traded.
Can I just say, let's say, you know, it's not a big deal, but I feel like the Steelers lose this trade. They move up seventeen picks in the seventh round. Who gives an f and you're paying Alan Robinson five million dollars this year. Alan Robinson's a five million dollar player right now.
I don't think that's a crazy risk reward scenario.
That has some pretty bad tape last year, and he's pretty bad with Chicago's I.
Guess that's that's fair enough point, Like who else is making around that much money this year Paris Campbell signed in free agency. He's making around that Daria, Darius Slayton for the Giants' those guys. But I see your point. He's a third. He's gonna be their third receiver. They were very thin after Deontay Johnson and George Pickens. He's a little too similar to Pickens in me, like, there's not that many of those guys out there, and so there was a huge drop off after their top two.
So he would be their third receiver. It doesn't seem like a crazy gamble, but you're right, it probably won't really result in more than.
Wide receivers are still left me.
He averaged thirty four yards per game over the last two seasons, so you're right. That Chicago year felt like he was a mailing job. And last year, I mean we were, you know, going into the into September coming out of rams camp with the most flowery reporting around Alan Robinson possible, and he completely flatlined. And it now, with what they've traded before, it looks like a completely care.
If we're looking for depth for Pittsburgh, I'll use the Graybeards, a team of thirty and over veterans, Odell Beckham off the board, Jarvis Landry still out there, right, Yeah, would you rather have Jarvis Landry, t Y Hilton still out there, Julio Jones still out there, Randall Cobb, Robbie Chose, and Anderson is off the market now, Sammy Watkins. Anyway, these are other options. Probably you can get it at cheaper cost,
but I guess you can look. You could squint and say maybe, and the Steelers are good with wide receivers. They can unlock something in Robinson that wasn't there last couple of years.
I mean, you're not asking to be number one, So.
I guess I'm just saying, like, I'm not gonna go nuts slamming him when he's making like a little more than Byron Pringle and Nelson Aguilar. That's sort of the level they're at. But you're right the rams where I guess just happy for anyone to pay any of his salary, which is telling they just wanted to totally. They just were paying to give him away, which is crazy. Appear ten million to give him away appeared on our show during Corona. Yeah, and his career went off completely off
the map very soon after. I'm not saying that they're but it's just a warning to players in general if you were to appear on the show like the Future is a Mystery.
Pretty bad segment with a no in at the RAMS camp as well, some a lot of noise being picked up by Donald.
Was right next door with our friend Mary Hollywood making a lot of noise over the loudspeaker, and Alan Dudson was disrupted.
I'm not going to point fingers, and I know, especially after the last show at Justin but Grave Digger, that was a bit of a test for you at RAMS Camp last summer when Ricky was alpha dogging that and and doing this loud speaker interview with Aaron Donald, Like you could have went over there and pulled the plug on that interview so we could have gotten better. Alan Robinson sounded the ship has sailed, but that's all.
Sorry about that. I guess I really dropped the ball there. But it was cool to see Ricky out there just doing her thing talking to Aaron Donald.
Do you do you think.
That answered some great It's like a pr flag. But Erica is a wonderful former colleague of mine and a friend. It was good to see her.
So you don't see like Daniel Jeremiah on her podcast the other day. Put that on APN story, So, you know, very good shouting her out.
We love Ricky, We love Ricky.
Went to Australia.
She did killed it. She tried out as a RAMS cheerleader recently. I haven't heard the results of the tryout. I'll check in with She saw Taylor Swift and Tampa. I know that's an important thing for her. If Taylor Swift closed Sunday night at Coachella or are you watching absolutely in other news, this is cool, this is very cool. Tomar Hamlin he plans on making a comeback in the NFL, and he got into more detail in a press conference. His quote, I'm here to announce that I plan I'm
making a comeback to the NFL. He told her reporter. He's twenty five years old. Of course, he had that really horrifying incident on January second, on Monday Night Football. He explained the nature of the cardiac arrest. One of those one in a million, one in a billion, whatever it is, hit at the exact wrong time that messed with his heart rate and it needed to be restarted obviously,
and it saved his life. The Bills announced the safety was cleared for football activity, so the Bills are cooled it. Hamlin's cooled it. This would be one of the great comeback stories and really not since Mark Let's see, what would it be Alex Smith. Would there be more of a slam back slam dunk comeback. I know it's a different sport slam dunk comeback player of the Year than tomorrow, Hamlin.
I mean, we're months removed from wondering, like A if he would survive, like b if he would live a normal life, and now we're here, and I like it.
It would be incredible just to see him on the field.
And I think you're right that if you just pull the comeback player of the Year odds off the table, because there's literally there's no second place opportunity for anyone to even survive in that contest.
I think a guy kind of lost that he was an important player for them, like a good, young, improving safety. They did bring back Jordan Poyer this year, but like he'll have a big role on the team. I mean, I'm sure I'm not the only one that's gonna be somehow like seeing him out there is gonna you'll have mixed feelings like you almost you just you just hoping for the best. You know, how can you not think about what happened? But all power to him that he's he wants to play, He's ready to play.
Absolutely. Best of luck to DeMar Hamlin. That's what's happening in the news. Let's take a break and then welcome in Ben Solek. Sexy asked our music department to pull up some Frank Ocean like music. Now we're doing over in the music department.
Well, I don't how much they had to pick from, but they've they've made it a selection.
Joining us now is a man who knows his stuff. We here. Here's the thing about our podcast. When we have a draft person on or someone that knows the draft, they are the real deal. So let's welcome in Ben Zolac of The Ringer, who does excellent work covering the league as a whole, but also just obviously a stud when it comes to the draft season, and we're going to get things going with Ben. How are you?
But I'm doing well, Greg, You're looking vibrant today, just right Orange.
Thank you?
Yes, still Hawaii in my mind where it still still a SWEATR. But thank you for pointing our listeners to the YouTube channel. I know you're a big YouTube stor doing. We're trying to grow it.
That second, well, just how did Dan and I look? But when you're you're in that front.
Largely largely muted, largely.
What is what is over your left shoulder? Right now? What does that say? Ben? Before we get into the outliers of the NFL draft up?
Yeah, So that's that's my white board. It goes up a lot. Like Greg said, I do a lot of shows for the Ringer, and the white board always got a bit on it, And for the past month it's been Anthony Richardson no matter what which I wrote it. I didn't realize that zoom was gonna cut off Anthony Richardson most of the time. So I've been explaining this a lot. It's obviously a call back to the great Kevin Costner film Draft Day, and also my feelings on a top of the quarterback class.
Okay, so we're going to get to the draft step, but I want to start there because this continues to pop up, and I think maybe Ben is someone who's active on social media and has a following. You are pushing this narrative that Draft Day is a good movie.
Why are we doing this? Why are we pretending like if we go back and watch that film, I still haven't seen it again, in which Jennifer Garner plays a capologist, tell me that that is a good movie or just a movie that has football in its narrative structure and uses the real logos that to me, that's the only thing that movie really had going for it. Are you going to say that was a good film?
Ben so, absolutely not not a good film by any stretch of the imagination. For three hundred and fifty eight days of the year. Now is it a nice centering experience to hear them? Like, you know, make these like all of all the memes, all of the tropes right where it's like, ask me if anybody went to his birthday party, Oh, I should see how far he's throwing
the ball. Like it just reminds you that, yeah, everything we talk about in the NFL draft, if you were to just put it, like get a third person view on it, you realize how bananas this entire process is, how all of this is contrived. It's all made up. That's why Draft days fun to watch.
All right, maybe I'll revisit it. Let's stop.
Wait, but I want to know if Ben is a wear because Ben was probably fourteen years old when it came out that one of the three hosts heres had a pull line used in the promotions of the movie. And the line was full of Heart from start Zarnis dash Mark Sessler, and it was literally in the trailer of the movie.
I literally just give a little bit of backstory to this because I had gone to say history, I mean, I had gone to see I learned a great lesson and as a younger person yourself, like, I hope you would not fall into this trap based on this this parable but like I was at my parents' house in South Carolina and it was well into the evening. I had a couple of glasses of wine to me and had at some point offered to give a review to
the pr team of Draft Day. In short, they called me on the phone and I read something that I had written which was a little too flowery and maybe a little too like. They pulled one line out of it and suddenly it goes national with me glowing over Draft Day, and I've never lived it down.
So don't follow in my.
By the way too long. Didn't read Mark was drunk when he gave that quote. No, I would say heading there, yeah, and I'll set I've said it before. We're going to get to it. But now we're on this draft day thing. We were there at Radio City Music Hall when they were shooting scenes for Draft Day, and I'll never forget the panic when they were looking for Frank Langela, who played I think the owner maybe of the team, and there,
Where's Where's Frank? Where's Frank? And Frank langel was wandering down Broadway and they had to send a PA to track him down so he can get the shot before the draft started a little inside base.
Imagine if they had not gotten that shot.
Imagine Flynn Langella.
All right, enough lost the whole show.
Let's get to it, Ben, Should we start Richard's Yeah, which is like the only He's the ultimate freak, Anthony Richardson no matter what, the Florida quarterback and you are, obviously, based on the whiteboard, a huge fan, one of the heaviest qbs ever detested the combine and scored off the charts on all the measurables. And do you say, Ben, because of that because he's such an athletic freak outlier that you got to take a chance on this unicorn.
Yes, but also no. I think that the most important thing to say in the Richardson evaluation you talk about him is that while he is a project right, he cousney to development. He's got rough edges, he needs work. He is not nearly like the raw ball of play, you know, a year away from being a year away. He's not that caliber project. There's shades of gray. We love to go like either a guy's a project or is ready to play. And it would be nice if
the world were that binary, but it isn't. When I look at when Trey Lance came out of North Dakota State, he goes three overall. When Josh Allen comes out of Wyoming, he goes seven overall. Those guys were doing fewer developed things as pocket passers than Anthony Richardson. Was Richardson as one of the lowest sack rate quarterbacks to come out in recent years. He is unbelievable, like buying time in
the pocket, finding a checkdown, getting rid of football. This isn't like a crazy scrambler, make it all up to always backgard football he does legitimate two two, three oh three level things in the football field. He's only started
twelve games, so he's not complete. There's inconsistency, there's easy mistakes, but it is not challenging to see the final form of this player in terms of the actual like you know, professional top button button quarterback stuff, and he's a runs a four to four and he's two hundred and forty pounds.
You can froll the ball sixty uys and so now we're describing a truly elite ceiling, not saying he's gonna make it, not saying he's gonna be Josh Allen, but saying that that the idea that, oh, if you take Anthony Richardson, you're gonna lose all your games in twenty twenty three and then maybe by twenty twenty four he's ready. I don't I don't subscribe to that. I see a player that gonna need a little bit of time. The
first couple of starts are going to be rocky. But I could see you getting a functional NFL offense out of him very quickly.
And you guested with Danny Kelly on the PFF mock draft, and you had the number one overall pick for the Panthers, and you you boldly just took Anthony richards and then mentioned.
A lot of the stuff that you just did.
I do wonder, though, because Bryce Young obviously is another outlier in terms of his size, his weight, and how you project that over the course of time in terms of deliberate durability when you made that pick in that situation that when your mindset, is it pro Anthony Richardson or is it also mixed with concern as if in that case the general manager a coach taking on the Bryce Young project beyond the stuff you like about him.
Yeah, it's it's a mix. It certainly is. The way I like to talk about Bryce Young is this. I love watching him play. Great player, awesome dude, He's an inspiration, He's sick, He's so much fun. Can't wait to watch him play for somebody else, so excited to root for him when somebody else takes the swing on the five ft ten, two hundred pound quarterback.
Do you feel awkward at all as a slighter, shorter man to talk about a prospect that way?
Extremely so. I did our Big Bryce Young Scouting Report video for the Ringer of This Week and literally in the top minute. I go. Now, I understand if people are frustrated about a person my size complaining about Bryce Young's size, because it really does feel like a very small pot calling a larger kettle black. But that's the reality of it is. I'm not trying to play the NFL. He is right, and for Young, the size in terms of shortness is a concern ability to see over the
middle of the field, the way affects his dropbacks. The size in terms of slightness is a concern. The durability the hits. He plays a style of ball that invites a ton of contact, and you have to be concerned about the body armor, the durability, how long he can
sustain his level of play five, six, seven years. I think that like Young has already succeeded from an outlier perspective and his size by playing as well as he did in the sec Like he's already shown that he can handle it, and he can he can get it, he can get it done. He can he can achieve at this lower size at the college level. Now he's got to do it again at the pro level, where everything gets raptured up a couple of notches. It's a very very thin eye of the needle that you're trying
to thread. To me, I don't know if I want to make the pick right.
And it sounds like he's got to go first and they're not gonna be that worried about it. And he did take lots of hits in the SEC But to stick with Richardson one one last thing is like, I I don't think he's been over hyped like I've been. I've been getting some grief on Twitter that I have a type in terms of quarterback prospects. It's like there is no other type that's like Anthony Richardson coming out
in the draft. Cam Newton is the only one that could compare physically in terms of what he can be as an athlete. But he might have the best pocket presence in this class, and so that's why he doesn't seem like he's that big of a risk. I think he has a high floor. Maybe he doesn't have and he has a high ceiling too, but maybe he doesn't reach that. But is his like inaccuracy doesn't seem that
bad to me. They were just throwing down the field and for the most part he was accurate enough and My type is like athletes, but it's also pocket presence, Like Philip Rivers is my favorite quarterback just about over the last twenty years because he has insane pocket presence and Richardson has that which is like you kind of can't teach that. He moves around and makes time in the pocket. So that's like two things to me. It's hard to imagine having those two things and not succeeding.
And he's the ultimate freak. He would be the most fun person.
So Mark, absolutely I would agree with you.
Oh, I didn't know if you had.
Oh, I have someone that I have been fascinated with, and I heard you talk about him a little bit.
It's Darnel Washington.
When we talk about a physical freak six seven two sixty four, and just when to watch some of his tape, just the way he appears next to other human beings, even very large human beans on the field. I guess the question is because there's there's no doubt that like he would absolutely be a tantalizing idea for scouts, for coaches, and what you might turn him into. Do you think that he can come in and be highly productive as a pass catcher after what you've seen of his college tape.
Not in your one, because right now, Washington is a guy in order to produce, you have to funnel him targets. You have to choose to throw him the football. He's really good yards after the catch, right He's really good turning a shallow passing into a big long run. In terms of his route trait, in terms of how he addresses the ball downfield. He's in need of development. The reasons because Georgia had him and Brock Bowers, who you to watch college football, brock Man Bronx about as good
as it gets through a college tight end. He's unbelievable. He's gonna go very, very high next year. And so they let Brock be the receiving tight end, and then Washington would stay in the block and occasionally they lead him out using on play action and then he'd get a catch here, catch there, because I'm a stampeding tyrannosaurce rex after the catch. But he's not like he just got a ton of reps and a ton of opportunity
to develop in terms of a true pass catcher. So if you draft Washington early on to get him to produce in the passing game, you have to decide, Okay, we're running a Darnell Washington play. Hopefully, over the time he plays in the NFL, leon a plus blocker for you. He's a weapon in the running games. He can lead
block right, he can be impactful in space. And then with those catches that he gets in the design game, he starts to grow his route tree more downfield, more mature route tree that you tend to see from NFL tight ends. And now you got a stew going. I mean, now you're you're cooking with about as complete of a tight end as you can get. He's very, very exciting. I'm increasingly becoming accustomed to the idea of him going
at the back end of round one. I think if you're talking like two or three weeks ago, I would have said, no, I don't think it's happening. The closer we yet, the more it seems like there's a couple of chances for him to go late round one. I think by pick fifty he's gone.
Well, you brought up, you know, his playing time, and you kind of have to look deeper when you look at that Georgia roster, like why you're not getting them any snaps and so when I think for or size outliers, like they have two more in this draft that we could talk about. Nolan Smith to me is like a prototype that we really don't have in the NFL, Like
maybe it's a Son Reddick. Maybe the way that defenses are now playing like five defensive linemen essentially like five man fronts at the same time, and the fifth guys like sort of defensive lineman but not really and that's a Son Redick. That could be Nolan Smith, who just seems like an insane pass rusher but it's just incredibly light. And then also you have Jalen Carter as your number one overall player, and he's a freak in terms of his talent in terms of what he can do at
that size. And we haven't really talked about Carter that much other than the off field stuff. So I guess between those two, i'd love to hear, like why you why you do have Carter first and kind of taking away the off field stuff because he's also a guy that hasn't ever played more than four hundred snaps in a season, which is wild for a guy who was the presumptive number one overall pick, Like why why would he be that high without seeing him on the field as much as you would want.
In Georgia.
Yeah, I'm just like moving my hands around a lot.
And there's no there's no way to talk without hands. It's never done before.
Four year old Sicilian grandmother like in the kitchen, go ahead, now.
My my family is is Russian, right, Russian immigrants and just always everything. So all the time I'm on pods and you're hearing snapping and clapping in the background because it's me imitating my mother. Uh Carter and Nolan smith Man. I don't know what they feed him in Georgia. It's unbelievable.
I like you.
When you talk to college people who like like look at recruiting, they say, the biggest difference between Kirby and at Georgia, Nick Saban and Alabama is saving kind of recruit skies, okay, a good high weight speed and then we can add mass to them, we can develop them. Kirby just drafts guys who just move differently than everybody else moops. He just he just find scours the country, finds the ten guys you can't teach it, and gets them all in a bulldog's uniform. So with Nolan Smith.
This is the sort of body type and athletic profile that years ago was going to be carrying two hundred and thirty pounds. It was going to be playing wide receiver, and said, now he's carry two hundred and forty pounds and he's playing He's playing edge's playing pass rusher. The enthusiasm that this young man has for defending the run at this size is really sick. I mean, it's it's awesome to see and he gives you hope that he's gonna be able to hang on the edge of the
NFL level. You bring up a Son Reddick with Chennan Nuwosu long time charging now with the Seahawks is another example of he's going to stand up, He's going to line up super wide away from the tackle. He's going to be impactful pass rusher. Can he stay on the field for all three downs? Can you put him on the field in first and ten? That's the big question with him, and with the way he plays the run on the SEC. I think you can, but i'd be
hold him my breath. I mean, those first couple of weeks watching him in training camp, you're really hoping that that he's got that stuff. He's gonna be about a eighty pound deficiency to the guys he's playing in the running games. So it's scary, but he's got an encouraging film with Carter. The rotation at Georgia is part of is part of a result of how well they recruit. It's also part of the recruiting process. They are willing
to get young players on the field. We're willing to put really talented freshman retrot freshman sophomores on the field, and accordingly you kind of get some of these low snap counts. It doesn't bother me too much with him. Carter's the sort of guy where you know, you watch him for about five ten plays you go, oh yeah, no, three hundred and ten pounders don't move like this. This isn't real. This is a figment of this has been doctors. This is ai footage. It's it's it's endominic and Sue esque.
In my opinion, I've heard Fletcher Cox. I think that's a warranted comparison as well. This is a guy with double digit sack potential from the interior. Yeah, conditioning is going to be a question in year one, but if I'm taking him top three, top five, top ten. I'm trying to maximize his role in my defense.
Just that.
Yeah, if he needs some time off in year one, I'll give him that time off in year one to ensure he's the force he can be on third down. So I'm not too too concerned about the volume.
Let's let's circle back does everything with this draft that we talk about the outliers, the freaks of the draft. This draft is small. It's like a it's going to be a short number one pick. You got short r you got smallish wide receivers. But let's talk Ben the short King dou spawn running back here at Kansas State five foot five GREGGI five to five Gregy. You got him the shortest dude ever measured at the combine. MJD
one of the great running backs of the aughts. Also NFL employee here now has him as his number fourth ranth running back aspect. What do you think of MJD?
Who they rounded up to five seven or so?
So right, there's something there well Ben.
And Ben, but also weighed about thirty more pounds coming out.
Ben's friend in Cooker, Tanny Kelly, called this player MJD with a tapeworm, so there is some connective tissues.
Let's talk about our short king out of Kansas State.
He is a delightful young player, as quick as a wink, He's tough as nails. It's actually really good in pass protection because he's naturally predisposed to chopping.
Oh, it's a.
Great cup block player because it can't really be much of anything else. So he's actually really good in pass protection. I think there's a way that he's a special teams player. I'm not sure that he's got runaway speed such that, like you know, he's he's going to be like a truly impactful returner, but he's not. He's physical and and
he can hang. You can definitely make guys miss. You are very limited in terms of what you can run with him as a true running back because he's just not going to be able to break the number of tackles that you need him to in the first levels. Really hard to get him to run between the tackles consistently at the NFL. So I'm sadly out on our short kingdom span. I do find Ducebawn a delightful player. He's very fun to watching. His college career fun Yeah, you.
Just just put another chip on his shoulder.
It feels you looked in the mirror and just thought, like, you know, you're you've been down on some of these shorter, smaller guys. Is there something you need to work out? You know, in terms of like is it is it coming from the end, you know, the big guys.
I'm trying to.
Say toward be proud, like I love me some tankd del I like some of these smaller receivers.
I think we raised them up.
Let's let's lift them up then instead of trying to hold them down. Let's football is for big guys. Let's bring this up on the screen here. And this was a tweet that that you responded to the other day. Someone explained this Ben, someone's coming at you, uh in this time of year when you're obviously putting a ton of work in about your actual playing history, and you swatted them down.
Yeah. The folks like to say all the times guys never played a Snapple football in his life, which means that they haven't watched fifth and sixth grade Strausburg High School football exactly. I was the starting slot back, thank you very much. I Uh. We were in a practice in seventh grade before the season started and future first round pick of the Colorado Rockies. Mikey Nickeract who was our quarterback hit me in Oklahoma Drill. He's a quarterback now.
Hit me in Oklahoma drill and left an indent in the turf where my body landed. I distinctly remember looking up to the sky and going, yeah, marching band. I think is probably that's where the marching band across.
Yeah, no, good move, that's all good. Mark's Pop Warner days have floated our show for years. We've always needed that, Like what are our bona fides? Like? Mark played in.
Pop Warner A play that played in the backfield, and if I were not roughly twenty years older than Ben, we might have faced each other on the field.
I wanted one of those fields.
But absolutely, yeah, it's I love the uh. I love that you never played. It's like, yeah, man, like everyone knows, no, nobody, nobody was watching my stuff going well, this guy definitely played in college and they saw your tweet and they're like, wait a minute, no he didn't. You're not breaking any news.
You do you have a favorite of those small receivers? Do you any of that you like? Because you mentioned that. I think there's nine that are under one hundred and eighty pounds in this draft, which is just crazy. And there's guys like like Tank Tail, who's probably going to be a Day two pick, but you know it's like one sixty five, which is just another level.
Yeah, if I can sneak Zay Flowers in there, the young man in Boston College is one eighty two. Love a Zay Flowers. That's a that's an explosive player with a lot of deep potential. I think that I think Zay's gonna go earlier than people think. I think Ay's got a good chance to be wide receiver one, depending on where Smith and Jamie goes. League likes him a lot. The Patriots have like met Zay Flowers third cousins at this point, Like the Patriots scouting staff has just lived
with Zay Flowers for the last month. It seems like he's a legit option there in the teens. Uh. And then if we go true under one eighty, Josh Downs out of unc is really fun.
Uh.
It's always cool to see a smaller receiver be really really effective in contested cash situations, which is what he is. He's got a great knack, he's got a great eye for the ball, very very shifty. He's just a slot. There's just all slots at the NFL level, and the slot position is moving away from small, speedy guys, and it's moving towards big guys who can contribute in the
blocking game and can contribute in the running game. And so it's just harder to find homes for these dudes than it was five ten years ago.
One little note on Zay Flower today, he is actually working out with Patrick Mahomes. The Chiefs brought him in for that specific reason. I know they'd have to move around again him, but that would be juicy.
Indeed.
I love it well.
And we'll end things with this a tweet from earlier today from Benjamin Solac, where you could follow him on Twitter. Day one of the twenty twenty three NFL Draft is in eight days, and I think I could better predict the first five picks of the twenty twenty four draft than I could the twenty twenty three draft. I kind of like that. Yeah, like I I the draft store, you could kind of nail the top ten or get
close to it. Not as compelling to me as these wide open years, so it will be fun, Ben to see how it all plays out.
That's the that's the sentiment of somebody who does not attempt to bet on the NFL draft. Right there exactly on my side on the line, I really like those ones you can figure out on the top ten.
I do like that, and I do like you said to me, like we've now reached that point of the draft process. You put a more moratorium on new draft takes. No more draft takes. Everything has been said, and now we just kind of ride right out the next nine days.
Nothing new.
Yeah, anybody who's dropping a I think X could y on April fifteenth. You're just bored. You're just bored out of stuff. Time to stop. We've done enough. Let's see what.
Happens, uh, Ben. Thank you for joining us, Buddy, and everybody follow Ben on his NFL stuff, his draft stuff at the Ringer of course and the Ringer NFL Show on Spotify and anywhere else you get your podcast.
Ben, thank you very much, Bud appreciate it, fellas big, sure you, Ben, Thank you.
There he goes. Good stuff from Benjamin Solak. All right, one more break and then we'll finish up the show. All right, we're back.
You know, you know, we've been like doing this show a while. When yeah, people we have on we're in their teens when Draft Day came out, I don't really know that, but that would be my guest.
I don't know where he's at. He's twenty six, I believe.
Let's just say Ben is most likely younger than us and perhaps significantly so. But he knows his stuff. And yeah, yeah, I don't. There are people that will. And speaking of which, here's a plug. Mark, you have your mock draft coming up. Justin Graver, our producer, kind of put his kind of made his big arrival at the draft last year in terms of our universe by competing with his own mock
draft that he really did well. Yes, and now what we have here, Greggy and they are different sports, but there's a bit of a Magic Bird thing going on here now between Graver and Cessler in terms of the mock draft coming up this next week. So I'm very excited.
I don't know if if I'm Magic or Bird in that scenario, but if Magic or if one of the two were massively detached from the penning results.
That this documentaries made, it's definitely missing, you know, kind of one component which I think was a factor in the whole magic thing, the racial given talent here but you know or that any talent. Yeah, it could be it.
Yes, we're missing the racial component of this.
Say to another level, yes.
Justin I have been putting a lot of pressure on myself to actually do well this year because I feel like I did pretty well last year. You know, ten team player matches would have tied for first according to the Huddle Report that grades all the mock drafts. But now I'm like, if I don't live up to those expectations I've set for myself, I'm going to be very disappointed. And it's an unpredictable draft.
So as someone who I think nailed maybe one pick last year, I will tell you that you'll wake up the next day and life continues to force jah.
You've said, Mark, I don't know if this is still the case a few weeks later, that you've been reinvigorated by the draft process this year, which makes me think you might be ready to deliver your masterpiece.
I will say that I think that, as Ben was saying, this is the Ben Solock has done thousands of hours of work and does not believe you could even do a better mock than just simply guessing next year's draft. I think that's an ominous roadmap for myself attempting the same process. But I think that also says anyone can, like my mom could do one of these and probably get in the top five.
Thing in this little idea, Yeah my mom, you get your mom to do.
Yeah, it would seem like the hard air thing, or the more you think it's for my mom would be would be would be knowing which players are going to be good at football at the NFL level. But you can't really do that immediately after the draft.
You can't.
Really.
No one knows who is actually good at doing that. They don't know.
I'm gonna be kept up at night about the missing racial component of the mock draft.
I'm just saying, you're expecting it to take off. That's sort of the unsaid Larry. You know bird magic thing, right, I don't think it would have taken off in the same way.
Two whites takes away some sizzle here. Hey, speaking what you've got a big announcement? What day?
What day are we dropping your mock? By the way, do we have a plan for that.
I'd love to know.
I'd also love to know the about next week, what day next, later in the week, let's go later.
Obviously next next Monday, No, next late next Wednesday. That's that's the latest week can go.
I think went right up to the edges. When we do it because there's new information coming.
In, you do it like the Mayok version. It's like, I'm not with all these the riff raft. I give you one mock draft and that's all you get.
There's no.
We've done it on Wednesdays. Yeah, we'll do Wednesday, big announced. I always remember draft Day. You're like, oh, things have already changed. My mock's all messed up.
He does care.
I like that you do care about us, like a little dog, like biting at your attempting to just do your.
Shut up big announcement on the draft. We've been teasing this, and now here it is. Do we have the horns? Do we have the medieval times or the height of the English Empire? Yeah, some call it a fallen empire now, but listen, we have a huge overseas fan base, so we would never say.
That we don't reference in that way.
We will be doing a live stream of the twenty twenty three first round NFL Draft from the NFL Media Headquarters here live YouTube stream. We will be on camera. This feels like a mistake. We'll be on camera for all three plus hours of the first round, chopping it up,
discussing the different moves, the picks, the trades. We'll have obviously, if you're familiar at all with the Friday Fun Show, we'll have a comments section we'll have we'll interact interface with our listener slash viewers, as well as other fun things to come, which we should be planning post haste, but that will be a component as well.
Hopefully we'll be coming shopping by. I feel like a hang. It's a hang where we still got every anyone who's the audio only we're still doing the podcast afterwards, recapping round one as we would always do, and if you wanted to check out the YouTube, it's got to be best live, but I think it'll be up there on YouTube after the fact to just rewatch it over and over.
Mark people say this is revolutionary. No one's ever done this before live stream, and that's just what we are. We're innovators.
I hang it from a technological angle. We've always been aggressive, and this is another example of it.
It's like, have you ever wondered what it'd be like to just hang out with us? As we watched the draft.
They're just like regular guys. It's like hanging out with guys at the bar right there. That's the show.
Do we do the thing now where we uh we brag about not going to the men's room the entire time.
We just sit in the chairs for now.
No, I'll be using the laboratory multiple times.
Okay, so many coming, so many times as we please. See.
That's one of the things about Dan when you're when you watch games with him, you're just like, what.
Is he missed the entire third quarter?
Irish? Goodbye?
He had time and he's still gone? Is he? Okay? That's that's what separates our show. We're in the bathroom all the time.
It's very different. It would be. It would be a lot of fun.
It's like they're just buddy is It's like, that's the show. It's too many drops at this point. I we haven't done this though. It will be a fun, fun time to hang I am looking forward to here.
Here's my here's my picture of the audience, because we really want you to join us the listeners. It could be really good and fun. It could be really bad.
Also, yeah, what.
If we get like thirty eight minutes in and we realized this is ishtar, this is a complete.
It's what I mean, Like, if we're all of a sudden doing our version of Draft Day, it's we're in and you get to see that.
Although it could be like Dan's surprise birthday party that Emily through Dan could just be like, no, we're any can we.
Do deuces if we don't like the flow?
And it's just I think so.
I don't know if you get to do that a pandemic you can call, you can parachute out.
It's not on the NFL now or anything like or NFL Plus or anything. So it's like we're we're running, it's our call. That could be part of the dramatic tension. Will we get to.
Our doing like that? The Shadowy League figures seem somewhat invested out. Here's a oh here it is. Look at this from April eighth, twenty fourteen, Draft Day's official Twitter account. I wonder if that still exists Draft Day Movie. I guess it does. Mark Sessler, NFL Colon hashtag Draft Day delivers on the great tension of the NFL.
There's full of art, get your tics.
What a what a disaster? Absolutely retweeting this with no content.
And there it is as full of heart from.
Start, do not grow to finish.
Mark Sessler, Comma NFL dot com Comma around the League.
I that was the beginning of my break with Twitter, roughly a decade ago. When is it? Are you broken together?
I lost interest in it and it was because of that and the resulting So thanks for retweeting that, Greg, If.
You're going to be finding that right now, appreciate that.
Is it? What happens to these Twitter handles when the movie's long gone? I guess it just oh man, Dennis Leary was terrible in this movie. Got to still be there.
They've got a retweet of rich who had.
Garner the cap? They put p Diddy in it? What a mess? Anyway? All right?
It was meant to be the Bills before the Browns.
Oh yeah. The other thing is, how could you ever get behind as a sports fan any movie that opens with the Seattle Seahawks defending Super Bowl champions have the number one overall pick. Get out of here? Yeah? I will.
I'm gonna find this.
There is a column somewhere on NFL dot com where Dan, you and I both gave our viewpoints on it, and I know that you've you've recently come down so hard on it. I I want to go back and see what you wrote, because I thought you were a little bit closer to the middle, and I will.
I'll dump up my results.
Perhaps perhaps a little closer NFL dot com fresh. I remember our boss at the time was very pointed in, Hey, you can't kill the movie. We haven't.
It's sort of an absurd like written product. If we can't give an at review.
If if you if we could track that down, if you read that back and forth, because you weren't over the moon about the movie until Yeah, the Glasses of Wine.
But it's been advertised as if I consider it to be like Apocalypse now or something, which is not not the case.
No, Greg, the Seattle Seahawks and the film are the defending Super Bowl champions, as I think they were in real life at the time, and then they were like they had the number one overall pick.
I mean this, Yeah, the Seahawks have the number five pick here after first.
I'm just saying that I don't think that's ever happened in the history of this sport anyway. All Right, that's it. Anything else live stream next Thursday night, Huge Mega Mega eight pm Eastern or something like that. Be there, seriously, be there and heed. The car.
Is never too old to rave in the desert with black pink. Doesn't know what a black pink is, but that's not gonna stop them. Baby, need someone to hold this camera so we can get a good pick in front of the giant ferris wheel. We'll be at the Mojave stage if you need us.