Welcome to NFL Daily.
I'm Greg Rosenthal and I am beyond lucky today to be joined by Patrick Claybonn and Jordan Rodrigue of The Athletic on our maiden voyage for this show here NFL Daily in the Chris Westling podcast studio. So this offseason has been a lot. I'm going to talk a little bit first, guys before bringing in. It's got me thinking what brings joy in life and in football, and we're going to talk about that with our segment coming up
in the show. But before before I do get to you, guys, I do want to start by addressing the obvious that this is not the Around the NFL podcast. That we taped our last episode of Around the NFL on May twenty third, and it was a total shock to all of us and it's very difficult that that was the last show that we're not going to do another.
And I know.
That's going to inspire a lot of emotions from our listeners, from you guys, from anyone that that's worked on it. For myself, of course, I get it like I've been going through them two for really six six weeks now since since we did that last So I still am.
We'll go through them together.
I love Dan and Mark and what we built together with Chris was was beyond special. Keisha, Chris's wife, said it perfectly on IG yesterday that we will always be family and nothing can take away what we accomplished together. I do just want to thank everyone, especially like the listeners, but also everyone in this room. You two and that's
ever been in this room. You know who you are, and who's in the control room back there, and who's been in the control room over the years, whether it's in Culver City or here, and the listeners too, because y'all helped you change all of our lives. You know, you you made something so special with us and you felt like it was always us together. Uh, and you stuck with us after Chris died, and we tried not to ask for too much along the way, but I do.
I do want to ask for something now, and and that's to support the hell out of Mark and Dan and what they're gonna do next. And I love them, I always will, and I want you to support this show too, give it a chance, like give give both shows some grace and and be cool NFL dailies.
It's not gonna be the same show. It's not.
I it can't be, and I wouldn't want it to be. It's gonna be different. And we'll get into how you know that's that's gonna be different. But it's gonna be a great show too. Like I'm really excited. It's it's as you would say, Jordan, like two things can be true. You know, we can miss that and this is going to be something we're going to be really proud of. And I hope y'all that are listening are too. I'm
looking forward to working with so many people. Colleen's going to be back on the show next week when she gets back in town, and we got Steve Weish and Nick Shook on the show tomorrow. And uh, of course you Jordan like welcoming you here. It's really exciting to me and Patrick. There's no one I I love working more with than y'all.
And that's it. I'll let you guys talk a little bit too.
Well.
No, I guess thank you from the standpoint of obviously personally and you know I've said this to you, but from the standpoint of a of a listener, right, because like you get you get guests on a podcast, and the relationship is kind of fundamentally differ And so I felt right and feel all the things that a lot of people are feeling, and then like to have this tangential attachment to what you guys built by just being in your vicinity, like over on West Washington Boulevard all the.
Way to Overhear has just it's been something to experience.
And when I think about how much the show means to so many people, I have to remind myself that there's four people and four families who the show means
so much more to right. And of course, when you're experiencing those emotions, you like I'm sitting here in the Chris Westling podcast studio right, what you guys built it provides people with a level of openness and vulnerability and understanding that a lot of people don't get in real life, much less surrounding the discussion of football right and so doing that, it grew the game, and there's all these initiatives, all of these discussions about how to make the game
international right, how to accomplish these things. I can't think of a better way to protect the shield than to have more people carrying it. And that's and that's what you guys did, and you don't. You don't get that in an Excel spreadsheet or an earnings report. There's there's equality to that that the reason that people feel the
emotions that they're feeling is because they felt that. And so I love you guys, right, And as you said, I hope that people are able to get two properties that they can listen to and be a part of an extended family.
But I just.
Sorry, what you guys did is incredible and should be celebrated and in any way that we can, you know, because I haven't known how to react, all right, Like I haven't really known what to say or where to be, and people ask questions and it's just like this was incredible and I'm glad to have experienced it been the small part of it.
Yeah, we've had at least say a little time since since taping that show. I appreciate all that Patrick to process it a little but obviously letting everyone know, letting the listeners know. This week it's just different and we're going to get to the football of it all. But yeah, I do want to hear from you too, Jordan.
Yeah, I mean, it's that openness that you guys created that it's going to make it really hard for me to get through the next couple seconds here, But it's also that space that you guys created that allows me to be able to try right. Like the listeners of this show know, I am one of them. I've been one of them. I've been, you know, lurking in all the same places they've been lurking for years and years.
I've been listening this podcast to me that that you and Mark and Dan and Chris, the heroes that you guys created, that so many other people created, it got me through some.
Really hard stuff.
And I don't think for a long time you guys knew that the space you created and the safety you created for people to come in and just sit with people who they they thought were good, a good hang and they liked listening to. But then that space became really an open door into this thing that so many of us are passionate about and for all the words that we can't use sometimes to describe it because we don't know how. We would turn to you guys, and
I would turn I would turn to Wes. And football was a closed door for me in a lot of ways. For a long time, and the way that he talked about football and the way that he wrote, because.
That's what I found first. That opened the door for me.
And I never got to tell him that, but I was here a couple months ago, Greg, and I know you saw me staring at the door of the studio.
And having a moment.
And at the after we recorded that show, I had to tell all of you guys what that meant for me. That was why I was so nervous. The fan base was so nice. I was so nervous. I'm so freaking nervous still, Like I'm terrified because this is really hard because it matters. This mattered so much to me, and it mattered so much to so many people, and it mattered to you for and your families. And I want to preserve that I did not have I did not build the house that we're sitting in right now.
I didn't.
I watched and I enjoyed, and I supported from afar and I think now I'm getting tapped on the shoulder in a small in a very small capacity to support up close everybody, to support you, to support Mark, to support Dan. And I'm gonna do that because finding this show open a door to football for me in a way that I didn't know was possible. Football, to me is my purpose on this earth. And all I can do is pay this forward to you, to Mark, to Dan, to everybody as as best I can, as much as
you'll have me, as much as they'll have me. I just want to I just want to help keep that door open for people who were like me, who still are like me, who doesn't matter what you look like, where you come from, your knowledge level, like I want to help keep that door open. And that's why I'm sitting here. That's why I continue to support you. That's why I continue to support those two guys and will until I'm done on this planet, because that's that changed my life.
So like beautiful and bittersweet and just life man. And this happens so much when I think about the impact Chris has had on all of this, that you're saying those words and sitting in that seat and everything in his studio, because like how you approach football, it reminds me of Wes, Like that's it's one of the reasons I was really I've told you this before, but it's one of the reasons why I wanted you to come
on the show initially. It's why I'm so excited that you're part of this show when you say football is your your purpose on this earth, like it can mean everything to us, and we also kind of can put it to the side that it means nothing, and it's just this thing where incredibly passionate about the way you see the game that you want to understand it because I do think it's the one thing is going to be my twenty first season doing football since I started
at Roade World, and I still love it so much, and we're going to get to what we're really looking
forward to in this season shortly. But like the gap and this was when I started, what I realized after three or four months because I loved all sports was like the gap between what we know and what we don't is so much greater than any other sport, and trying to like fill that gap is what gets me really excited and excited about NFL daily that it's it's going to be different, but like we're gonna have this journey.
And it's been a lot this offseason. Thank you everyone that that's listening for for your patients too, because I know it's been silent and the uncertainty was tough, and you like, I want to be like really open in this show when we do this these shows and just
honest and like look full full transfer. It is like my family was going through, you know, some serious health issues that are very uncertain during all this and when this happened, you know that that was part of that was part of everything, part of the decisions and what I'm gonna do, and I'm I'm so happy, Like there's like great news on that front recently, and man like this week, like the sun's been shining better and and food is tasting better, and it all puts it in
perspective of you know what what matters in life, and that football can matter as as stupid as it is, Like I find joy in this football thing.
You you guys do. I couldn't quit it if I tried.
And so we're gonna we're gonna celebrate it and try to figure it out and and talk about what we are looking forward to and the joy that that we're going to get out of this season as training camps uh start to get going next week, and we'll do that in our first segment after the break. Okay, we are back on NFL daily and apologize for that hard transition from whatever ad just played to what we said ahead of the break and what we're gonna say now too, which I'm really excited about.
It's been a minute.
It's been a minute since we podcasted Patrick and Jordan obviously you two and like we're close. The Texans are showing up next week, and I was debating, like whether we get back in the studio, you know, this week next week. I want to get ready to go, and I wanted to like set this first segment up of just like what are we looking forward to? Like what is the things during this offseason?
For me?
That's how I thought about it during this offseason, which been a little challenging obviously, but I've still been staying on top of the football of it all, Like what am I looking forward to the most? What do I think is going to give me the most joy as we are looking ahead to the twenty twenty four season, And I want to start this with Patrick claibon.
It's over the common thing with all the things that I'm looking forward to is most of it is uncertainty. I like that because pushing back towards this idea of how much we don't know right what part of the things that you were talking about earlier. Okay, so last season, only nineteen teams converted more than fifty percent of their fourth down attempts. And I say only because in the two previous years it was twenty three and twenty four. We raved about how good the Eagles were at fourth down.
Last season they finished at seventy three percent. The year before, the Rams had the lead at seventy eight percent, when the thing they had the lead it the one.
Thing that the twenty twenty two Rams were good at.
I think right it would go back to twenty eighteen Anthony Lynz Chargers converted eighty seven percent of their fourth down attemps. They only went for it eight times, they
got seven of them. The idea of how going forward on fourth down is always better is slowly starting to not become better, because I think teams are getting better at defending all of these fourth down attempts, and so it's pushing towards this uncertainty of what's going to happen at fourth down all the cycle, and I'm just I'm excited to see that cycle start to come to its fruition and maybe we're getting to a point where maybe less than half of the league is converting fifty percent.
I don't know, but it's going to be fun.
So I'm shocked.
Actually, I'm being serious that that Claybond started with like sort of an analytic bent to it. Make a second time very right what he's looking forward to, because I hear those numbers and I still think, Okay, we've got a little ways to go, Like, okay, I mean you're saying only nineteen teams are over fifty percent. It's like, okay, that's still pretty good. And some of those percentages are
pretty high. But you do speak to what's the natural evolution of anything analytic or you know, the moneyball effected when baseball started that way, It's like, yeah, once every team starts doing the same thing, then it is increasingly
less effective and you have to pivot. I think we're seeing that now in team building when you think about the off ball linebacker position, Like the analytical model of building your team and kind of not worrying about off ball linebackers was so copied and until you got to the playoffs last year and maybe the last couple of years, and it's like you can point to so many teams like the Cowboys would be want, certainly the Eagles, and you can point to all these teams that keep losing
the playoffs and you're like, literally the entire game plan that the other team was making is because your off ball linebackers are bad. And then you kind of look at like, who's got the best off ball linebackers.
They're the best teams in football. They're the best defenses in football.
So I hear you on the fourth down teams will have to adjust on their short yarded strategy and come up with new stuff. I feel like we still have some I don't want to be I don't want to stop calling for fourth downs, I guess is my issue.
Yeah, like going for it.
I will still be calling for certain coaches who typically don't go for it on fourth down to go for it on fourth down.
What team do you cover on a regular.
Basis speaking, the off ball linebacker thing, we actually call that the Shanna plan. You know, circle the other teams right middle linebacker and then just spam that player mercilessly over and over and then like laugh behind the play card that you're doing it. But I think it's interesting because when you see changes like that when you see teams get really good at going forward on fourth down and also more teams who are understanding analytics meets sorry Patrick, but momentum, feel and flow.
Of the game.
When you're seeing the analytics meet meet some of these like very stereotypical coaching principles, that's the that's the shift that you're starting to see a little bit.
You're seeing more and more of that.
I mean, you know, again we joke about it, but but Sean mc sean McVay hired Stretch out of Tennessee and he's like one of the game management guys.
In the league.
And even so he even he is who is like one of the most conservative John Striker, Stretch is easier because I always say, is it's Stretcher?
Is it Striker? And he's tall, So Stretch.
Well, did they try to hire you first? Or well?
Because I because Jordan's too too humble about this, but like her getting on them about their fourth down decisions and like writing an article about.
It every week every week.
But there was one I remember in particular last year where you really did it, Like there was a pretty clear before that article and after that article of like how often Sean McVay was going for, I'm just.
Saying that's to get back to the point.
But that's true. That's not the first time I'm going to interrupt your point.
Praise is Jordan's number one skills.
Spinning praise like love your love your shirt Patrick, By the way, spinning.
Praise is this, yeah, like a ninja move.
Yeah.
So, but I think the more teams get used to the fact that this is going to be the wave now in the NFL. Like, what I don't think a lot of people on the outside see is that you literally are starting to structure practices different. You're literally starting to build more time in not just for a more full play sheet, more full play design out of a fourth down bucket, so to speak.
Do you sort of like that lingo?
You know, you don't often have time to build out a full, malleable and adjustable, evolvable fourth down plan in traditional and typical punt on fourth down kind of situations.
For practice, there is no time in the week.
It's not criticizing the coaches who don't do it, and for a long time most league wasn't or it hasn't. It's just that there's no time during the week. You gotta get to red zone for God's sake. You got to walk to the bus and install things as you go. You got to troubleshoot during walkthroughs, like all of these different things. The week of preparation is so it's so
tight to fit all of those things in. Well, now, what you're starting to see, and I heard about this this offseason, is more teams building out that scheduled time.
It's kind of similar.
We're going to talk about it the kickoff, the new kickoff. Building more time during the week, not just for what you're going to do on fourth down and all the situationals that you're going to build into the natural part of the weekly plan. Instead of those guys are in another department on the other side of the building, No, they're in the coaching rooms now, and that's growing across
the league. And then also you're seeing by proxy, teams are getting better at defending it because there's more tape. There's more tape on what you're going to potentially do, there's more data, there's more situations. So if you are seeing that and everything springs back.
To basically everyone's just becoming more like Bill Belichick's been for like forty years.
It took what twenty minutes for you to bring up Bill Belichick. I'm just saying I thought, I thought we might.
I mean, I'm exaggerating a little bit.
All I'm saying is that I think they prepped game management situations on a more consistent and specific level than other teams were, Like when I'm even talking about the Giants back in the eighties and nineties and the Patriots. And that's all not that he was perfect about it or that it's all like, it's not about the analytics of it all.
But I think they how you build the week.
They literally just spent more time doing that stuff than other teams. I know this because every player that's left there is like, we spent way more time on this stuff.
The culture of communication I think in the league has changed a lot. Yeah, I agree, And so you're not necessarily going to have some like a Bill Belichick maybe taking criticism from the outside and applying it right to Whereas now there's more there's more communication about the way that you know, people operate.
I think I think people share more now and.
More information available, and so like while.
You could bemoan like people you know, quote unquote, like analytics is this all consuming monster that does everything. Everybody does it differently and everybody applies it differently, and you can have you know, the Shanahan Tree coaching half the league, but it can still be different, right right because of the like everything is this meta analysis, and then we get the analysis of the analysis, and it just creates more uncertainty, which is football to.
That point though, like we have so much cool information and so much cool math, and like it is so such an awesome tool, but nothing actually changes in shifts like what you're noticing until the actual tangible functionality of how the week is planned and shifts. And I'm talking scheme, I'm talking position value, I'm talking anything. It doesn't actually start to shift that way until they build and structure tangible things that create those changes that can you could
You have to rep it. You have to rep it and rep it and rep it and rep it. And then you start seeing like these things trickle out of buildings during training camps, joint practices. I think across the league are going to be huge this year because that's what's going to bring me a lot of joy because we're going to watch the kickoffs this is one of my things.
All right, let's get to it.
Yes, it's the new kickoff. I did get to watch like practices of the new kickoff the spring.
It rules.
Really it's chaos, nobody knows what they're doing yet, but it rules. But the thing that I wanted to point out is, you see, you know, I don't have the specific numbers, like I'm failing Patrick already. I don't have the specific numbers in front of me, but that you're
seeing an increase in schedule joint practices. A huge reason for that, in my theory, is people need a clean like a clean sheet, a clean practice, a safe practice with some contact to practice the new kickoff in and they don't want to show that tape across the league. A couple of special teams coordinators we're around talking like the first team that figures this out is going to
have such an advantage on different teams. And it brought me a lot of joy watching it because it's it just looks so will you get something so weird?
It's just but it was it.
This is what we always talk about on this show. This is like if you went back and listened to and I'll do this a few times. This is our first show. This is what we used to talk about on around the NFL, like first season, Like Wes and I would always like talk about, like why doesn't the NFL innovate more?
Why doesn't the NFL change more?
Like like and they do compared to other sports, like their ability to change. I think I don't know it. I'm very excited about this too.
Yeah, it's it's chaos because the kickers, they compare it to Like so if you're thinking about I guess golf clubs, which I don't golf, but it is interesting to think about they're switching different cleats out and trying to see, okay, this like moldable to my foot soccer cleat on my right foot, and then a regular football cleat on my left foot, and like that's the plant foot. And then it's like, you know, using different clubs that are in your bag to to have placement, to have precision, to
do different things for your return unit essentially. And then on the other side, I mean, I just think you're gonna see people try some wild stuff you're hearing buzziness about, like outside linebackers returning puns.
I am a little worried there's gonna be there's so much stock of like how crazy it is and are they going to get there and checking out?
But I'm with you, don't checking out.
This is my message to special teams coordinators across the nation. Do do do do do do do like or not checking out on this. I'm shaking my finger at you, Patrick, but don't. I'm I'm so I'm so hyped about this because watching them practice and like, what what it could
possibly be, what it could turn into? And Bones Fossil who used to coach for the Rams now it was in Dallas, he was like the point, one of the point people on this and hearing him in the little back hallways of league meetings and before the votes and explaining it to coaches, explaining it to owners not just the safety element of it, but also leading to more scoring.
I mean, you've got an offensive trending league. If you just say to you know, the coach there, half the coaches in the league, like you could score more points this way, then automatically, you know, they start to they start to pivot toward that. But but the way that teams can do it, you're you're running, it's almost like you're running run game plays like you're running like you're
seeing counter, you're seeing duo. But in the kick return stuff like it's it's really really interesting, I'm telling you, And I think it also to your point earlier, I do think it helps with the international presence too, because you're gonna see people try stuff. You're gonna see oh can this rugby player come do this for us? And that's that's his role and he's like a call up on the roster.
I can't wait for it. It will create a higher scoring average. Now I'm thinking I wonder if that was part of the pitch and why it did get through.
Not because it's necessarily going to be that effective. That's really hard to predict exactly, but because the field position is just going to be better because so many people this is what I worry about, is just gonna take the kickoff to the thirty that they're that they're going to accept, you know, the touchback and everything, and that field position is just going to be increased.
But then you're going to deal with that.
You have to cut off a tenth of your play sheet. If you're an offensive minded coach and you're saying, okay, we all accept l acquiesce to the third like you're gonna cut. You're cutting off like a tenth or twelfth of your play sheet at that point. So why you know if you want, you want everything wide open for you, right,
and and all of that. But but I do think like the reason why you're seeking to circle back, you're seeing these joint practices get scheduled and against a wide variety of people because you can't show that tape to anyone else. You can get as close to live action football as possible in a practice, so within the safety guidelines and all of that, but still some contact and
you won't really know what any of this like. It is why I compare it to the run game so much like you don't actually know what any of this is going to look like until you until you hit somebody, until you have pads on and do it. But they also don't want to do this. They don't want to
show what they've got, like offensive coaches defensive coaches. They want to be super vanilla in the preseason because if they happen to find, you know, that one thing, they don't want thirty one other teams to see it.
It's like, okay, if it's two.
Non conference opponents who see it fine.
And it's kind of like it's like a lot of things with the NFL, we won't really really know until the season starts. But that makes me, that's what I love, really excited about it. I do want to have Sam Schwarztein on this show. He's been on it before. Actually he works on the TNF Prime Video and he did a recap with me last year. But he he helped write this rule for the XFL. Because I don't want to say too much about it, because I did spend like I don't know if you'll find this sad or lonely.
I definitely like watched like thirty minutes of this one night at like one in the morning when I couldn't sleep, and it didn't help me. It didn't help me kind of figure out how this is all gonna work. It's very confusing to me, so I feel like I need to see more.
Well, I think we're gonna see even when we do finally see it, it's going there's gonna be meta trends. Yeah, that that happened over the course of several weeks, and they're gonna be tight lipped about it. And I'm sure like reporters are gonna get scolded for video of a kickoff.
And when it's like, you know, it's like apartment building.
Into sending of a video.
No, I'm just dding, I don't I.
Don't want to including the special because you're talking about kicking it out. I know a lot of time special teams coaches get to be the sacrificial lamb, right, and you're gonna have somebody give up a couple of touchdowns and maybe and so like it's gonna be super safe and you know, we don't know how it's gonna turn out, right, That's the best.
Part, the wild car, the uncertainty, the thing. But that's one of the cool things about this though, is like I've never met a Special Teams coach who isn't like kind of nuts in the best way.
So this is this, this is their moment.
Like kind of marginalized and that play was marginalized. And anything that gets uh the excitement of what used to be one of the most exciting plays, I'm all into it. I'm look, I'm I'm for the uh you know, the rule where you where you could choose to go for it on fourth and fifth. I'm all for crazy rules. I think the NF we need more of this moving forward. We we've done two things now.
I love it.
We're waiting on your.
I'm I'm gonna go simple because my I'm The reason I mentioned that is because it's like, Okay, we're only going to get through so many or the show is going to be three hours and it maybe this seems boring, but it's a simple and it's just true.
For me.
It's CJ. It's c J Stroud and that's just like.
Like it's not just because my son Walker was the only attendee of the Super Bowl last year and at least that I saw that was wearing a CJ.
Stroud jersey.
That's like a little part of it, the joy that it brings my son, because Yeah, like c J. Stroud made my son. I think a Texans fan for life. I think it's sticking and I think he's just gonna be with this guy and this team. And I don't know why that is, but for for me, because we're separate, I'm here, he's there, and for me, it's like he's got He's just got everything he wants. He's had a
great offseason. I've loved the Mark up the Michael Parsons. Yes, I love the Mike Parsons and c J Stroud like road Show, I love basically every appearance.
CJ.
Strouda said, So I like love him as a dude, but I wouldn't really care about that if I didn't love watching him as a player. And like I start with the quarterbacks that I tend to like with guys that first like can just make beautiful throws and usually like at least a starting point, like beautiful throws with anticipation from the pocket.
And he reminds me of Philip Rivers in.
That way, like Herbert a little bit to what I liked about Herbert when he first came out. How he gets through the reads so quick, reminds me a little bit of Geno in that way. And so that's like
the starting point. And then there's like what he can do off script, which I think is underrated, and what he can do intangibly as a leader that to me, like he's just I hate the announce like I know you hate this analysis Patrick when it's like he's got it, But I think that is part of it for me, and it all like it all comes together in this package that I actually don't think people appreciated quite how incredible he played last year, because I did go back
and watch him this offseason, and I think when you watch him, you can make a strong case that he was like a top seven or eight quarterback.
In the NFL, A very easy case, like as as a rookie.
And since I've started doing this, I don't think there's maybe anyone else I that you could say that about. Like Luck was sniffing there but not there. RG three was sniffing there but not there. Dak Dak was was there. Actually, I think Dak's a good, good comparison. I think CJ. Strodd showed even more about how Dak performed that you're like, and I just think he'll be just knowing everything that we know about him and knowing what's around him and
stuff on Diggs and all that stuff. Like I just think the year, the growth from year one to year two is just like, I can't freaking wait for this to watch this dude play.
And I'm not even like tinging at the the he's got it right because it in this instance right is his natural ability as a football player, and also the honesty that he approaches the game with and discussing the game where you hear CJ's rout say something and of course, you know, those of us who agree with him, we're like, hey, he's a ballner. But like legitimately it provides a window into oh well, yeah, if you go into the huddle with this guy, of course you're gonna believe what he says.
And like the way that he discusses a playbreak. Now, like.
Of course people remember that viral interview with Cooper Cup and Bridget Condon, right, and so like you get that level of discussion, and it's like, yeah, that's what it is. This guy is a person who I can who's one of the most talented people on the planet, but I can actually relate to him as a human being. And oh yeah, he's a very good quarterback. And I think that's that's what it is. And of course, like that's exciting and I'm glad the Texans are good.
Now, yeah, it's fun. That's such a fun team also for so many reasons. But he is at the forefront of that. And like he speaks how he plays. He I have in my notes c J. Stroud dash ballner, supreme ballnoer like he but he speaks, how he plays in that he has this.
Assuredness, this conviction.
So much about what a rookie quarterback has to learn how to do in his first year has nothing to do with anything that happens after the snap. A lot does, but it's all how you control the huddle, how you manage your teammates, how you learn with your receivers, how you get people to do what you need them to do, and how you absorb what other things people need from you. But doing so with such conviction and such an assuredness. I mean, the dude Uza's leadership. First of all, for
someone so young, it is really fun. Again, we talked about being you know, as fans of the sport, it is so fun to watch somebody be so he is like basically an on his sleeve player, Like you're gonna know where he's at because he will show you and he'll play like that and he'll.
Be that dude.
And I think what's cool is they're not gonna have to start in a typical year or two with him, Like they're not gonna have to go through a teaching progression that I would think would be typical for a quarterback going into here two.
I'm really excited to.
See you said during the season last year. Yeah, difference between him and Week three, it's a week fourteen or whatever, was massive.
Yeah, he's advanced.
I mean, he has gone past what the normal steps would be when you think about, Okay, how do we give this guy what he needs, but not too much because he's still growing and he's a kid, and we've got to get you know, the an NFL full NFL offseason and all of those things.
But he showed that very early on.
You know, it was super interesting to watch sort of the collective conscious wake up to the qualities and the traits that he had already showed he already was that guy, and so to see like the collective sport really appreciate. But then I think, whatever, you know, he's kind of given that appreciation right back to the sport. I mean, I've loved hearing him talk on on the podcast and and all those things because it's just it's just fun. You just think this this guy is going to be
around for a long time. And he didn't show what his ceiling would be and instead showed an extremely high floor. And that's super important when you think about team building. When you think about when this team is going to be ready to really push, to really go all in. You think about everything centers around how fast you can get through these years, and he's going to go through him in a truncated time.
And the throws are pretty oh yeah, Like that's sort of like, hey, where it starts for me, Like they're just oh dude, they're just sort of majestic and the anticipation of it all. And I do want to be careful of expectations. I'm that I thought now and I think more deeply about it since we started, since you know we did around the NFL. Justin Herbert like was the guy was most confident going into year two, would like, you know, be an MVP candidate, that sort of thing.
And you know, his growth since then has been rocket. I think there's reasons for that, and I think reasons that CJ. Strad will avoid in terms of the continuity with the coaching staff and certainly the talent around Stroud.
But you I do want to be careful of just like expectations, like some things could be could be bumpy, Like it doesn't mean that he's going to climb to the very top of the quarterback like Ladder this year, but I'm not ruling it out either, like defenses would will adjust, but like I've just I've seen enough we know, and it's it's going to be fun to be along the ride from We're going to take a quick break and then we're going to come back with some more
things that we're looking forward to in twenty twenty four. All right, continuing on with the things related to the National Football League, Patrick, that get you up in the morning, you know, they get you going. We've had a little break and we're back.
At it, and I want to get back at seeing teams go from worse to first.
Okay, that we just talked about. CJ.
Stroud and the Texans were very close, you know, and looking at the Bears, the Chargers, the Cardinals, the Panthers, the Commanders, the Patriots, unfortunately the Titans, like we don't believe it right now, but there's a chance, Like of course, you know, we did this exercise on game debut, and the obvious answer is the Cincinnati Bengals, right, But I think one of those other teams, despite all of the things that they're facing, has a chance to do it.
And I it's it's one of those situations, you.
Have a specific one or are you just saying any.
He wants you to say Patriots so bad?
No, I don't. I don't.
Do you want me to say the Patriot?
No, I've been emotionally disconnecting. I got a lot of heat for that, but it's just been the facts, Drake maybe in back then, Drake May and the mix. Though I'm going to enjoy that, but no, they're not gonna win their division because we.
Just saw the Houston Texans have this incredible turnaround and the Bears were making it. Like, I think you can make a case Bears. I think that position the Chargers, but.
I think that CARDINALSY can that they would be a fun team. Yeah, probably not win the division, but a fun team.
Their division kills them.
But yeah, they're for all of these teams. Maybe you could make a case for the Titans, but all of them are better than they were a season.
Well.
I think the Patriots are gonna better than people think. I was shocked when I saw the like you know, spoiler, unless everything changes on the Desert Front, like we every year, we've done a like a before the seasoned Bill Barnwell on He's coming on later this week, by the way, be excited about that, and you know, drafted over unders the fact that the Patriots I think we're four and a half or five and a half.
Yeah, like forget that.
Yeah, I'm so see what the Bears do. Their defense was already solid, kind of came along a little bit better. Eberflus is kind of maybe coaching for some some tenure here, you know, just give or take how the how the year starts. And I am so excited to see Caleb Williams. I mean, you guys get you guys know living out here in la uh, being awake watching the games, you know, well after the sun has set.
You know, he's he's so special.
And obviously this is doesn't even need to be said, because he was the number one overall pick and highly touted prospect and legendary thrower already. But like, still, putting it all together can be so hard for teams.
We've seen that.
We've seen that with teams with number one overall picks, and that can be really difficult.
But I think he has.
I don't want to, I don't want to put too much optimism in the Chicago Bears before we actually see proof of concept, But I do think life gets a lot easier when you find the quarterback. I personally think they've found the quarterback, and now building around him will
be important. I do want to give you guys my hot Cardinals take, because I don't feel like the Cardinals if they're they're crushed by their division, and so I think they get overlooked a lot, right, Like not overlooked in this sense that it's unfair because they've been bad
and gone through a lot of different things. But the stuff that they were doing last year, Drew Pets and Nick Ralis under the Jonathan Gannon sort of umbrella, it was weird and it was cool and you would hear quarterbacks talk about it like I don't know what they were doing. I hadn't seen that what they were doing.
On defense, they would sometimes do these things where they'd like do like a walk around pre snap look where they'd sort of just like they were just trying and all of a sudden rush to the snat they were.
And I and I thought it was I was like they were doing a really good job for that, and then you look at the end of the year and it's like dead last and like EPA to play loud so defensively that I did want to balance it with that. I thought like it felt like it was cool and it was good and they were overachieving. And then I looked and there's like, actually their defense was a sip offense totally different.
They improved a ton, but I.
Do I mean they statistically they were not a good team. Like let's be clear on that, Like let's be very clear.
But sometimes when you see process stuff like that, when you see troubleshooting, when you see what works what doesn't work, it's almost like I would kind of with those two coordinators, I would almost compare it to when you give a quarterback when a quarterback has a year to sit and instead of coming right in, I mean obviously they didn't have a year to sit and like cut their teeth on being coordinators and being a real team and all of that. Like the results were the results, and the
stats were the stats. But it was similar vibes where you know Kyler was hurt. You weren't going into it. You were kind of like, h what is this going to be? Okay, let's just see everything We're not first, like, let's try, let's try things, Let's do these different things. I'm not saying that they're going to be a contender here.
I think they could be really fun. Honestly, I do think that, especially you know, with you know, healthy quarterback and all of those different things, and the draft classes that they've put together, like they could be.
Really fun making a draft class last Yeah.
But I think that they they did some stuff that was interesting and fun and a lot of times teams do not get an opportunity or even a chance to do that with without super high stakes, and that could potentially lead to something cool. So it's not like a super high guess it's not a super hot Cardinals take. It's another very lukewarm Cardinals Kylier year.
Two is on my long list, which we're not getting to like almost any of them at this point. But they were the number two of rushing attack last year in EPA per play after Kyler return full stop, like they were just by the numbers about a top ten offense. After Kyler returned, I thought him and that offense and what you could see he wasn't fully back from the injury physically and was getting up to the speed of
the offense. But I thought he did things just as a quarterback that I didn't always see with Cliff Kingsbury. I saw growth, like I process wise, and man, that makes me very excited about them. And I think the ceiling side you meant. We mentioned the Bears by the way and all that we're going to hit on tomorrow's show with Steve Weisch and Nick Shook. Everything we've missed, everything that has happened in the NFL essentially as much as we can can like as much news rundown that
we think matters. One of them is that, Yeah, the Bears are the Hard Knocks team, which is cool, so that we can get into getting into this team I liked. I'm into like eight weeks straight of Hard Knocks the first episode. I know people had their doubts on the Giants Hard Knocks, but it was I found it compelling.
I thought it was a good addition.
I'm gonna give a quick one that you guys don't need to comment on, and then I'll throw it to you Jordan, just a very quick One's just like if you look at Week eighteen last year, here are some quarterbacks that did not play Aaron Rodgers and that will be playing Week one, hopefully. Aaron Rodgers Kirk Cousins, Anthony Richardson,
Joe Burrow, Caleb Williams, Jaden Daniels, Drake May. Like that's a quarter of the league right there, and like those are all dudes, and they're going to be playing, you know, health willing week one. So that's just a quick one that I'm excited about.
It's so nice that your point actually sets up my point, So thank you for that. I'm looking at like Year two quarterbacks in general, and I'm i think maybe more excited about these guys than possibly guys that are just coming in and being rookies, because I try not to grade rookies too difficult, Like with too much difficulty, there's a learning curve, there's you know, the whole ship has to get built around them at some point.
And like we touched on with c J.
Stroud, it's you know, he's a very pleasant outlier in the sense that so much worked and he really worked and everything really clicked. But the Year two guys, I mean, obviously we talked about CJ. I'm so excited to see I hope Anthony Richardson gets a full season. I think he is so special. Some of the throws he was making last year before he got hurt. There's there's some controlled chaos, but in the best way, in that way that makes defenders hesitate, what the heck is this guy
gonna do? And and he can just can he can hurt you every which way? And pairing him, you know, with Shane Stike and like a lot of these year two guys, I mean, Bryce Young that's to me a really compelling story after what he went through last year and what it must have done in terms of, like
how do you manage that mentally? That's going to be really significant and unproven, really relatively unproven play caller in Dave Kanalas, and you're going to kind of see can you can you write the ship with this young man?
Like can can you figure it out?
Can they maximize some of the qualities that did make him a really strong prospect, you know coming out of the draft that weren't necessarily available to him. Does he actually have more skills and more tools around him? And I kind of he doesn't qualify structurally. So nobody dig me on this, Please don't yell at me for this. But Jordan Love in year two of like being the dude, Like, no, that's not acceptable well, I'll just I'm gonna go, Yeah, I'm just gonna.
That's actually the end of NFL Daily killed the show. It's been a good first episode, like yeah.
All right, yes, but year two of being the dude, like like fully having the reins, fully being you know, with working fully with Mattlaflor, fully fully having sort of the you know, the shadow, not in a negative way, but the shadow of like the legendary quarterback who came before him, fully away from that building, and I you know, obviously structurally he does not qualify as a year two quarterback, but a year two as franchise guy. I loved how
he put together that season last year. I loved seeing the collaboration between him and Matt Laflor. I think it's like so magical when the coach you know, and the quarterback can suddenly you can see the planning together. You can see them truly collaborating and troubleshooting together. That's what I think a lot of these year two guys do have in common. We have yet to see with Bryce Young obviously, but they do have that really heady way of being able to vocalize and vertbilize what they want,
of being able to really construct an offense. All of these young quarterbacks do, and that's really exciting to me. I mean, that's that's really fun for the sport in general. But it's also really fun when it's like, get out of their way a little bit, let them cook. And I think a lot of these guys have that at him.
And so much of the like should a quarterback start, should a quarterback sit discussion to me is based on our perception of who they are, and so we if it goes bad, right, we perceived them as bad and think that, oh well, you our buyas has been confirmed. This guy started early and now he's bad, right, But Bryce was in a horrible situation.
Oh yeah.
And I think we can go back to look at camp reports and conversations surrounding Jordan Love early in his career where it's like this is not working, and I think.
Or Aaron Rodgers, I can't remember what it was, a craignall or something like he was the fourth quarterback, he was struggling his rookie year in camp.
And I remember it was two Super bowls before two Super Bowls ago. We were talking to Aaron Jones on Super Bowl Live and Michael Robinson asked him before the segment, like, hey, how's how's Jordan Love doing, and Aaron said, oh, Jordan Love's ready, Like this is this is it.
Jordan Love is a quarterback. He's real, He's legit.
And Mike rob was like, hey, we're we're not taping right now, you can be honest, and and there was like there was that level of skepticism, and then early on in the season the skepticism was still there and all of a sudden he goes nuclear and it's like this is it and Jordan Love would never be questioned now. And I'm I'm with Jordan, like, yes, I think we can get that from some of these year two guys and completely shift our perception because it's it's football.
Well, Jordan Love specifically is like a bit of a mystery box. I think the floor is higher than we ever would have expected. The ceiling is through the roof. As as Michael Michael Jordan say, like he's just preposterous. He reminds like he reminds me of Kaepernick and Josh Allen at least just in the way that he makes me feel. What when he sort of first came out just like oh, like anything is possible here. I don't know what's gonna happen, and some of it's gonna be bad.
And and those are the two guys. And I think it's just because also just their physicality and just their just talent that just is undeniable, that that he reminds me of not that he plays exactly like them, but just in the way that he makes me feel like he he is an incredible uh value add as a quarterback.
And that's that is kind of what it's about, at least for me.
Like it's like you know, when you're when you're picking which games to watch, ultimately the games that you don't want to watch as much as the ones and the quarterbacks you're not going to be excited about. I'm going to do one more and then we're going to take one last break and it's just the Steelers being steelery. I was, I actually am, I genuinely am into this. Like we have so might you know, none of us have done a podcast. We haven't talked about football in
a while. Like, we have a lot to get to and we're going to get to it. It's it's called NFL Daily, So we're gonna have plenty of time as we build up.
To this season.
But I mean it like the defensive front reminds me so much of the Steelers teams in the ATS and the early twenty tens that just like, well, that's what the Steelers are. They're two preposterously good outside linebackers and then a third that probably is better than your second. And then they're and that's you know, TJ. Watt and Alex Highsmith, and I really like Nate Herbert coming in.
And then oh yeah, by the way, there's also like a couple massive difference makers in the front with Cameron Hayward and County Benton, who I think is a making the Leap type of candidate if we do a Making the Leap show, like really good last year for them on the inside. And so that's their defense, and it's Tomlin and they recently, you know, they got Larry Ogunjobi, I think Jerry Porter Junior, he's a dog like they're just I think they're quietly gonna be one of those
Tomlin defenses. And then oh, by the way, it's the Art Smith revival. It's like the runs scheme, like you can fall Art Smith for a lot of things, but it's a pleasing run scheme to watch when it works. And what I think of is just you know, the pulling tackles and stuff. And when Progeri Jones came in last year as a pulling tackle, they improved like day one. And he is just like a monster of highlight blocks on the edge. And now he's moving to left tackle.
And who do they take in the first round Troy Filtanu, who is the most massive, the most intimidating, like pulling blocker. And I don't know if this is all gonna work. I have a feeling we're gonna be talking with Nate Tyson. You're gonna be on this show Jordan next week about stuff schematically that we're excited about. That's gonna be Monday's show. I would maybe I'll stop talking because I have a
feeling Nate's gonna hit this. But like those two dudes in Art Smith's running scheme and two really good running backs, I just think that's very steelery to me, and I think they're just gonna be very steelery.
So he's he's also rebranded to Art is what you know? We go from Arthur. He's going to say that, but he's going to be painting. It's going to be painting. Is that's really this is where you're I mean that you're breaking some news here. If he's if he's rebranded, because I like art, I like art. I think art Art is better for uh, you know, it's like kind of more of a it's a punch in the mouth kind of name.
Which was like the holding the microphone stand a little too tight. I mean, Arthur was holding the microphone stand a little too tight. As a head coach, Art is the one cooking up a nineteen eighty style with some twist running scheme in the lab.
Art's gonna run triple option art Smith.
Art Smith says, give me the biggest, beefiest offensive lineman you've got, and we're going to pull your ass to the sideline.
Like Art. Art Smith's got some lettuce right, Like.
Art arts at the whiteboard with an easel, you know, he he's drawing.
Up past they walk it.
They walk in, and all the all the whiteboards in the building have been changed out.
And I think there is some some truth.
Like he he was in that stressful position as the head coach of the football team with a million different things to do and to worry about. And and now he can be art Smith, right, he can just focus on play calling and facilitating an offense.
He's free to be art.
Yeah, he can be art. Be the art that you want to see.
I want to see them run pistol. We're going to get to it. Don't let Nate steel okay for me?
Okay?
And I do want to, you know, make the first NFL Daily apology just to all the great people and storylines and trends that I didn't get to. But you know, I'm going to save them. Oh, We're gonna do them at some point. That's podcasting one there. You'll use everything I've learned. Eventually, let's take one last quick break and we're going to wrap things up after that. Jaunty back on NFL Daily, wrapping up our first show together. A lot,
a lot of emotions, a lot of football. Really glad you guys were here for it, and just to let everyone know, like what is NFL Daily going to be? Like what what is coming up? I think the first first week and plus is a good, you know, example of what's what's coming our show tomorrow we're going to talk about, as I mentioned, a lot of everything that's happened. Since there's been a podcast here on this feed. So Nick Shook Steve Weisch is going to join me for that.
We're also going to have one of our insiders in rapaport I believe Believe us just for a little news. As part of that show, I'm going to be breaking down kind of previewing camps with Mina Chimes and Bill Barnwell. Later in the week on Monday, we mentioned the scheme show we're going to do with with Nate Tyson and Jordan, and then it'd be great to have Colleen Wolf back in the studio. Patrick, hopefully you're available for that one.
I'm really hoping you are anytime. Sure, And so that's the next week and and going from there, it's daily. We're going to be hosting five days a week overnights for now. With that that might get adjusted once once we move on into training camp and more news is coming out. And yeah, even Monday mornings, you guys will
have something in your feed. And so before we go, I do want to do something that we you know, we might do every day, we might do some days and it's like a little after dinnerman like when I would go to my grandfather's house Heinz Rosenthal in Connecticut. Every Sunday we'd go there and we'd get back to his house and uh, he would have this little little jar mint after eight's. They were called very old school and you would have like a little after dinner mint.
It was we were home from the restaurant. We would always go out, go out to eat, and it's just like a nice this little uh after taste.
A nice little thing to leave you on.
And so.
Our after dinner mint, our after eight today is gonna be a picture that I was so excited to see while we were on our break. If you're watching on YouTube, check us out there too. This is Austin James Roberts born May twenty fifth, so just just a few days since we talked to you last. And Eric, as the ATEN listeners will know, it's a great producer for us, and he's doing some work from home for now, but he's spending time with Austin and he will be back with us in the studio doing a lot of work
for us, I believe in August. And in the meantime, Randy Chavez is holding it down behind the scenes. So we love you too, Randy, but we really love Austin James. So congratulations to Eric and Tale and and especially to Austin. You got some badass parents and it's really exciting.
Yeah, existence is awesome. You're going to enjoy it.
And I look, and you don't know any alternative, frankly, in existence or not, but yes, compared to the alternative, enjoy it.
And when people because it's always interesting when you have kids and it's like, you know, you tell them how old your kids are, it's like, oh, that's a good age. And I was thinking, like hell a month, like oh that's a good age, Like yeah, they're all great ages. And uh, you know, Eric grinding out and doing everything and being a new dad.
It's a it's awesome, great dude, and you'll you'll get to know him too, Jordan when he's back. And you're right, I I pushed back hard now because now that Elis my daughter is twelve, it's now to the point where people think it's not a good age. And I'm kind of like, you you know, like they're all like, that's my daughter. You're talking just like, oh, teenage age. You know,
teenage daughters. It's like all right, you know how you're so happy like that you're like one year old or two year old, like walked without themselves or whatever, or they did one little thing like can you imagine how proud I am of what my bad aass twelve year old is doing on a daily basis, Like it's exponential the pride, that's all. Let's hit the music, Randy, Uh
yeah for this first episode of NFL Daily. Again, thank you to everyone for their patients and their their support and their loved It means a lot to us, and uh for checking out the show and hopefully uh you will tomorrow too. Until then, for Patrick and Jordan, I'm Greg Rosenthal.
See you next thing.