Dream Playoff Scenarios + Cowboys-Titans Preview (with Andrew Hawkins)

Status Pro. He has a Columbia alum. Are you kidding me? He is Andrew Hawkins. Welcome back to Around the NFL. I'm happy to be here. What do you think of your theme? I don't like it. I'll be honest with you. Out the gate, why not? It's dry? It gave me like Phil Collins vibes. There you go. That's that's the song is called Sausage Fingers, and I like to use it as a test. Every guest that gets it has a different, usually visceral reaction to it. So like it,

some hate it, You dislike it. I didn't dislike it. Listen that whaling though they're going, that's emotion. I can't. I can't argue that that's a They're going to town. It's just not what I would have chosen to be my theme. But um well, something to work on for the next show. Constructive criticism, good man? What is going on? You know? Life football? Um, my company Status Pro that you mentioned, Yeah, let's talk about that, by the way, because I was like, oh, you're doing like a virtual

reality thing. There's a commercial out there where a guy's the Dallas Cowboys quarterbacks. I like, yeah, that's my company, that's my produ Like deal with how I'm nippotent? I am? But the NFL Pro Era product? What is what's the background on that? Yeah? So it's it's the first ever NFL virtual reality football game. Um, and you get to play as the quarterback of an NFL team, right like you get to play games play a full season favorite team.

You're the quarterback, you have to make the throws, make the decisions, and it feels like you're on the field as an NFL player, right that Wilson Zach Wilson could play. He could he I don't know how good he would be, but he wouldn't play as that is there like a Zach Willson Zach Wilson mode, or you're saying like, is therea where everybody blooes Youland doesn't like you? No, anybody

could play, Uh, that is the point. But also, so you could be the quarterback of the Jets, You're You're not technically Zach Wilson, you are Greg Rosenthal as the quarterback of the New York Jets. So hopefully i'd have more accuracy and yeah, the fans, well that would like I could think of other traits you might need more of the Jets. I worked with Hawk for years on Game Debut. Was really fun doing that show for years.

But all along, like three or four years ago, he would remind me like, well, I have this like my real job as this company I'm building. I was like, oh, yeah, yeah, that's cool. He's like, I'm doing all this other stuff. Cute, but just I didn't understand that I'm building this other company and it's kind of like make a game, and like you've been doing that for how long? You started ten years ago or something, and this commercial coming out and I'm seeing it. Lamar Jackson is one of the

indorsers too. I'm like, damn, he really did it. He wasn't joking about that. That really was his real job all this time. He wasn't being asking you the whole time, but not full of it. No, it was it's been a long time coming. Me and my co founder Troy Jones shout out the status pro t J. We've been together doing this version of the company. We started uh connected um to kind of do this iteration originally connected way back when in the whole idea it was our

experiences as football players. He also played Division one quarterback, and We're like, well, how do you give that to someone else? Everyone always asked like, what is it like to play in the NFL? And I'm like, it's as cool as it looks. I was a fan first. I was a walk on college football player. You know, my brother played in the NFL. But my whole life has been revolved around wanting to be on that side of it.

And you know, for me, it was like, well, how do I create something where the value is my own experience. I can tell you what it feels like to play in Cleveland and you know Miami. I can tell you, for example, when you play in the Steelers in our game in the third or fourth corner Retigade plays right, like late in the game when it's a closed game, they play Renegade and then the Steelers fans go nuts because that was like the coolest thing that someone from

western Pennsylvania. When I played there, I would get chills when that would happen. So I put that in the game, right, and so that's how we thought about it. It's just the first iteration of it. It's been successful so far, but there's so many things were playing to add and

that's what's exciting. I'm like wicked old, and so like the first football game that I played on like Atari a million years ago, Like I here's the thing that's like you would dream about this kind of thing as a kid, and like, yeah, tech Mobile kind of got you there a little bit more from an arcade game experience, but like this kind of stuff because way back when, like the first iteration, like Mike Tyson's punch out in Arcade Houses was like a much bigger deal than like

the Nintendo version. You kind of felt like we were in the ring. And so when I watched this, it's like it's the twelve year old me would have fainted and melted and thought he was incredible and like I sent it to my kids, I felt the same way.

But I would ask you this because, like I think one thing about being a quarterback, like maybe this is for a late later version, like you join a new team and if you don't have the thing on the wristband, or even if you do, it's like you're in a huddle and you have to call a play with like seventies seven words, like is that like baked into it? Where like that part of it is maybe part of

the challenge, like learning the verbie the verbiage. So it's a weird question, but it's just the question I thought about because it's like, honestly, Accord knew he's got two more long question. But that's a good woman. That is

like the level that you want to take the game too. Right, so as it stands, right now, you're in the huddle, the coach gives you the play, and now we had to make a decision in this first version of it, do you pick your own play or does a coach give you and then you audible if you want to change it. And that's what it is because that's a true experience of what it's like until you earn that trust and so in our game, eventually you'll get to the point where you earn that as well as you

have to get that play out in the huddle. Now technology prevents it to be completely voice activated where I have to literally read it. But that is coming, like, that is what the headsets are developing for and there's other ways to do that where we were prototyping now of you have to get to play out in the huddle, you have to communicate this to your team, and it's trying to find all those different ways of all the

things that quarterbacks have to consider in the game. Eventually will add other positions, right and it's like you'll get a really clear sense, like right now when you go in there, you'll see how intense it is with the noise, with the having to okay with the receivers on this side. What was that play again where the guys are coming to hit you and it feels like they're really closing

in on you. Like as much as we can convey that, we think that makes for a better experience, which is why our game is just different than probably anything you've ever played. There, you go, Mark, it's come a long way from playing pong ye wrong with the with the reference there alright, So check that out. UM, check out the NFL Pro arrow Hawks, UM product. I assume we're all going to get one on the next coming. Yeah, whatever,

that's great to UM. If you missed the Monday Night football repap recap with Greg Rosenthal and the great Jordan Rodrigue, Um, the game maybe not so hot, but I'm sure the analysis was. Did you touch on Joe Buck's singing? By the way, No, we didn't get that. That was a fun first quarter. Five first und full or punts, three interceptions to successful challenges, melt third down conversions, and a

part through general. Yeah. Has anyone else noticed the primetime guys that I think maybe it goes along with they're becoming bigger stars, they're getting paid more now that they're a little bit more open about, like, you know, crapping on bad games, and you know, like they it's almost like they can do that because they're coming from a position where they're making millions of dollars and they're not

afraid of getting a slap on the raid. Because I think there's been a heavy dose of bad games in prime time with bad teams that are stuck in prime time, like the Cults fourteen times in a row. It feels like and I think that it's a mixture of frustration, but like you can't pull on over on football fans

anymore about it. You have to be real, like you have to say what everybody's thinking, because not only is it endearing to the people that are announcing it, but also the game and sself, like we know what we're watching, right, we all you feel this right? But finished the bit like I like the bit and he lost confidence with it at the end. That was the bit, Like losing the confidence is like the Showman topic with again, I mean something I would do. I'm just saying though, that

was a strategic move. The no, no, you act like you're right. Anybody with me? They really here's the thing that al Michael's and Joe Buck, they really are annoyed. They really have been on worst games because the Thursday night and the Monday night schedule just hasn't worked out the way that they wanted it. Like they left that spot in Fox and you got money and the schedules better. He's not doing baseball. I'm sure that's all great, but

they're not like the Sunday afternoon games. That's a better job, Like and I do. It crosses my mind when he's doing this in Troy and him are kind of complaining. I'm like, I wonder if they wish they were doing those Sunday games because Greg Olson and Kevin Burgard have much better games. And it's even more so the case for Al who was doing Sunday Night now he's doing Thursday.

Perfect example, this upcoming Thursday on paper Dallas at Tennessee great, but meanwhile Tennessee does not matter what happens in that game. The Titans will either go to the playoffs as the a f C Sell champion or they won't based on the Week eighteen game. It's w U tnf off off Week seventeen. There's too many, there's too many examples of it not having meanings. I know you disagree, ring, but

like that this is exactly what money. Well, but the Titans, the titles roster is not essentially not going to play, so why do we need that? What do you think? Then it's all for money? Then they're like, you know, well that is a part of that. I'm not like some child, but I'm just saying, like for the product is wanting and I don't desire to watch. Maybe you know what I can't flexle. I think we've got a

good Sessler episode coming. I could tell you what I like it, you like you guys, sit on your couch and watch from start to finish every second of Titans Cowboys and tell me how it goes, and I'll I'll check in with you. So we will pre roll out of bit. We will predie you that game. We will also take kind of look at the playoff bracket kind of where things stand. Maybe we figure out what would be our ideal set up for the playoffs starting in a few weeks. But before that, Hawk again, great to

have you, glad to be here. You're ready to sit in, sit in on some news. Let's do it. Let's spin through the league. It's about the relationships. It's about watching those guys out there and showing something special and making Broncos Country proud. And that's what we want to do, and that's what I'm gonna bring to the table. I want to create this environment where people want to come into this building and work and have fun doing it. But let's let's make no mistake, it's only fun when

you win football games. So we gotta win and that's what we want to do now. That is Greg Roseenthal not a dunk on Nathaniel Hackett, but it is more a showing of how things changed so quickly in the NFL. That was January's introductory press conference of Nathaniel Hackett, who came to the Broncos with much fun. Uh. Fun fair fair fun, fan fair, fanfair nailed it. Um, Russell Wilson gets here. Remember the famous Hacket quote, Oh my god,

Russell Wilson with everything felt so very exciting. Uh. And now he is, I believe, just the fifth coach to not last a year uh and get fired in his first year. Uh. Just a tough way uh for the Broncos to start with new ownership. But that's where it is right now. Let's get into what's going on with the Broncos, because yes, Hackett is out and you guys talked about a little bit on Monday, and they move forward now with Jerry Rossberg as the interim head coach. Uh.

That feels like a tough gig. Andrew. I know you you played in the league and you've been through some tough situations with teams near the end of the season. What is Rossberg entering right now with two weeks to play. It's not that's not a situation I would I would wish on anybody to be honest. It's tough because there's so much turmoil, but it's like at every layer, which you'll find is and I don't know what the situation

is in in the locker room. I know there's been like conversations, was it the coach, is it the front office? Was it Russ? Right? Everyone kind of feels like it was rust But how the players respond this week will tell you if it was Nathaniel Hackett's problem. And Greg knows this take whenever players don't like a head coach after they get fired, and then when whenever the players feel like he was the problem, they play well the

next game post firebump, post fire bumps. So that'll tell us if it was truly Nathaniel Hackett in the first place. But if suddenly Russell Wilson throws for you know, fo twelve yards and four touchdowns, then that, honestly, it will tell you because that's what the Broncos had to make the decision on. Right, It's like they bought a used car and they got the used car and they were excited about it, and it's starting to look like a limon for some reason, and they hired they spent money

on a driver. Nathaniel Hackett was the driver. The car is Russell Wilson, and they're like, okay, we're gonna keep the car. That means we gotta go find a mechanic and probably tell this driver we're not gonna pay him. We're gonna pay that money to somebody who can fix Russell Wilson. So if he does bounce back, it probably does tell you that that's how he felt about Nathaniel Hackett in his offense. I don't know. I mean, I don't think it's gonna go well. They're in kid the

City this week, so he's bouncing back. Very clear this game he will not like they offered the job to a Gero ever O, who's the defensive coordinator who's done a nice job on balance until that Christmas game, and they said they're gonna interview ever over the head coaching

job too, and that he'll be a quality candidate. I watched the press conference with ownership today, though it doesn't fill me with confidence because they're keeping the GM, but the new coach is no longer going to report to the GM, and the GM is kind of gonna help hire the coach. But when they talked about who the important people who were hiring it, they weren't really including the GM. But he's up on the dais and that just it all seems like a mess because there's you've

seen it with the Jets. This happens all the time where the coach and the GM aren't aligned and the owner and like the owner the first thing the owner did and the GM was higher Hackett. Uh. The owner wasn't there when hack was hired, but the owner was there was They gave Russell Wilson all that money, and people kind of forget they didn't need to give Russell Wilson all that money. He had two years left on

his contract. They could have easily just sent like said like let's uh, let's look at see what he looks like. Let's hear from George Payton, the GM who apparently will be back, and what he said about Russell Wilson, who they still feel they could salvage it. I mean they have to feel that way. You can go through the season that you do see flashes and he'll be the first one to tell you he didn't play up to his standard, didn't play up to our standard. He needs

to be better. I don't think we made a coaching move based on Russ. You know. That wasn't what it's all about. That's why, that's not why we're getting a new coach to turn around Russ. It's about the entire um organization. It's about the entire football team. It's just not one player. It's not whether Russ is fixable or not. We do believe he is. We do these press conferences. I mean, you've been through it as a player, Um

listening to this nonsense. Uh, We've covered these and partake the seven Takeaways from these press conferences in written form and NFL dot Com for over a decade um. There's a level of phoniness to some of them. Others come across and change your mind. This one, to me is one of the bottom five I've ever heard because you're trying to sell the I The worst thing you could have done with here is to have the starting point and say we believe Russ is fixable. Is already the

most tired offseason storyline out there. There's nothing about it. If you're watching him play. That's believable. It can't be the anchor that you used to get to try to convince the next Why what are you going to sell the next coach on in this organization? And all I heard were just platitudes and utter nonsense. And you've got a major issue at quarterback, and I think the only way out of it is to find a way to go forward on the Denver Broncos without Russell Wilson's your quarterback.

I know it's a financial disaster, but the idea that you're going to tell someone else they're gonna have to go sold down the river. If Russell Wilson plays this way for even three games to start next season, that's a disaster. We're going to get a good mark in this show. I mean, does anyone disagree with that? Like I, I think what you and I saw your tweet yesterday

and I liked it more that that. Yes, there is this reality that probably is not realistic in how football is run, where they just say we're just gonna take

a bad beat on this one. We're gonna find a way to offload Wilson, whatever it takes, will live in the darkness, and then organically start over, but I just don't know if it's if it's feasible A. But also they don't want to admit defeat at that grand level, So it makes sense to me that they will bring in a head coach that that they believe will work well with them. Maybe they'll bring back Brian Schottenheimer and try to get the band back together a little bit.

But I do think for a contract that's a long term deal. It does feel like next year could be make or break for Wilson, because there's no way you'd be able to look any other way after two years of this, let alone, one has been difficult enough make or break in a sense of like where does he go from here? I think they could cut him now, I mean they could. I think that would hurt um. And there's also for Russell Wilson. If he comes again next year and he plays that same way, then I

think people are already there. But you can truly stamp it being okay, this is the end of a career that was obviously as high as people talking about first ballot Hall of Famer at one point this year really heard him and next year, if that happens again, it's like okay, then now it's solidified. But from rest of

the standpoint, isn't that a win? Like if he is not the same player and he was able to get this contract on the two years where he's not the version for him, Like, I don't think he would view it that way. And it's also very hard for ownership, especially new ownership, to come in and understand all these things, because you guys are exactly right when you talk about the GM head coach relationship. You let go of the

head coach. Now the GM is not a part of the higher Does he feels secure if it doesn't happen again, what happens to the head coaches? We gotta get rid the GM. My players aren't there, and it's just a cycle. And for new owners this is gonna be a lot for the Broncos to navigate. So whether they cut Russ now and they live in the dark, or they do it later, that's just gonna be a part of the process.

And they gotta buckle up because this is the ride that ask you this because like one of the reasons that I think hack it was dismissed before the end of the season was that even in that Rams game, But we've seen iterations of week after week where the sideline antics the in fighting. You've got defensive players jawing at offensive players and sometimes with hacking in the background, just standing there kind of like deer in headlights, not

taking control like Bill Parcels would. What how are players going to view the idea of Russell Wilson reclamation project. You gotta be on tex streads going crazy with each other if you think that's the only thing you're hoisting the ship on. Do with this. Typically, when you see stuff like that is it's it's symptoms of a deeper rooted problem, right, And and some of that can stem from, hey, we don't believe in our quarterback. He's not playing well.

We don't think he give us the best chance to win. But also their old line is not very good, right, and there's other things at this team that you have to fix and understand that to your point behind the curtain, you do realize that, Okay, this head coach doesn't have control, and you could have control a bunch of ways. It doesn't have to be the Parcels Belichick angle. You can

get that through respect. You can get that because you have such a deep knowledge of the game and understanding of people and players and what everybody's goals and once are. But I do think that for what we're seeing, it is probably a lot deeper than what you just see

in the locker room. I do think it's like a whole organizational thing at this moment that they gotta they gotta figure out, because this isn't This is quite a few quarterbacks, quite a few head coaches you've gone through, and I haven't heard people talk about even John Elway of it all. Like I'm kind of curious of like how does he escape free and and and and blame in these situations. I understand they say, oh, these are GM decisions, some like ceremonial job, and they're just kind

of like letting him. He's hanging out of this, John, But yes, you were. You were on a team with Johnny Manzel, So yes, you know what it's like to have a quarterback that maybe not everyone fully believes in. Yeah, And it's it's it's how the decisions are made, right, Like I remember the year I got a call from the head coach, Hey, we're thinking about bench and Hoyer starting Johnny. We were like seven and four or seven and five or something, heading the division. I started laughing.

I thought it was a joke. I thought he was calling to be funny. This is a report builder with my receiver. Let's have a good laugh and go into the week's draw. Weird bit coach, But okay, Yeah, it was like, okay, not diego I would have taken. Uh. So I laughed and it wasn't a joke. And I'm like, I think that would be a bad idea. Not because I don't like Johnny. I dont think Johnny was talented. He wasn't there yet as a player. I'm with him

in the meetings. He understood what was going on in his life, and for a whole locker room, that is pushing towards the goal where we are, uh overachieving for what anybody believed. These kind of decisions will take it all. And that's essentially what happened, right. They moved on with Johnny and we didn't win a single game. And I think that might have been even Rember Brown's painful fade. Um, all right, let's let's move out of talk and other

QB news. Unfortunate QB news. The Dolphins head coach Mike McDaniel announced that to a tongue of Baloa is in concussion protocol connected to Saturday's loss to the Packers to of course, through three interceptions in the last three possessions from Miami, and now he's back concussion protocol. We understood what happened earlier in this season, uh with the Cincinnati game, and he missed several weeks after that and the game before that when it appeared that he had suffered a

head injury, but he played on anyway. So obviously this is an ongoing situation for to uh here Mark, and now with the Patriots up next and the Jets after that in Miami in a four game losing streak, it's all kind of oh, it's a nasty stew for Miami. We'll see where this situation goes. I mean we found this out after we reviewed the Dolphins game on our show yesterday, and I mean, for me a little bit, um.

You know, there were the video evidence out there looks like it possibly or probably came on that for late first half hit that he took where his head bounced off the ground, and then he's in the second half after you know, I think what his first five passes account for like a hundred and ninety yards, and they looked like the Dolphins were used to. He was like seven for thirteen for eighty one yards with three rather miss defying interceptions. And he went through verbally case by

case and explained while they happened. One thing that stuck outuously said that he thought that he maybe even just got the play wrong on the second interception, but in regardless, it's just like maybe that, certainly to me could explain while while his performance fell off a cliff, But I don't know. I guess, like you know, people can't. So there's no reason he should play again all year. I mean each individual cases. I could see that as being a strong argument that we're not going to see two

again this year. And you've got Teddy Bridgewater and the Dolphins season in the course of a Fortnite went from um problematic too highly problematic. Yeah, it's sad they haven't confirmed that he had a concussion, so we'll find out that Simpton put him in he had symptoms and news in the protocol. I think it was underplayed back when he had that injury. When he had the concussion earlier in the season, that got so much attention that he he spoke publicly that like people and his family were

talking about, like should you continue playing football? That's sort of like just went through and he was back on the field and playing great again, and that wasn't like a big story. But at the time I was thinking like, oh wow, that's that's interesting that he was open about that publicly, that he was already thinking about should you continue playing football? And then now this comes it's worrisome. Yeah,

I mean anytime obviously I've gone through concussions. And the thing about football players that you know, to in the context of the story you just told, the family watches and they're they're more like worried than the actual player, right, because you are taught to be a warrior. That is what football is. It's it's it's a you know, hard

hitting game. And we all understand how this works. And to your point about multiple concussions in a season, I had a season where I had multiple concussions and I would end up going on the I r UM and that time allowed me to to to really heal. But as a player with like for two of his mindset of how he's looking at this, this is probably two was best year, right, Like overall from a lot of everyone talks about him differently, even in the context of who would want to come in the Broncos and coach

Russell Wilson. That was the same conversation we were having last year about the Dolphins and so wanting to come back, wanting to play, wanting to compete, wanting to continue to show people that I am the quarterback that I thought early on um and not wanting to lose that momentum. I understand because players you know their warriors in that way, and they do want to come back and they do

want to achieve. So it's crazy this team like they could I feel like anything is possible with this team now. I could see Teddy Bridge Rider playing great and then cooking the Patriots and then making the playoffs. Anyways, he had some moments when they played the Vikings earlier this season, but then but you could also see like a worst case scenario where they lose. Here. This is the same owner that tried to get Sean Payton and Tom Brady on a boat like a year ago. We sure nothing

crazy is gonna happen. I could say your boys coaching and Mike McDaniel, who you always you always talked him up um when he was kind of an unknown NFL figure as the smartest coach you've ever known, and now he's in the spotlight. I can't imagine they would ever do anything there. But I'm talking about sort of to us future, in this team's future, I don't know. If you lose six straight at the end of the season, I'd include the Jets in this too. I'd include the Patriots.

Anything's on the table, things, things tend to blow up that you didn't see coming five or so. I don't this as I get to get the Sean Payton thing, just like Wandering nine and go get Sean Payton no matter what happens here. But Mike McDaniel would get a head coaching job in four seconds if he if he ever left Miami was absolutely I think Mike came in with such a you know, unassuming expectations, like I don't

think people expected much out of him. He went into a very tough situation right like of what the offseason UH conversation wasn't around the Dolphins, and he's able to turn it around. He doesn't look like your prototypical head coach. He doesn't talk like he doesn't act like it but players respond, and I think they played above what people expected them to. Now, quarterback being hurt, quarterback having those issues, that's that's tough for any coach who was going through that.

So I can't imagine, like, I don't think it would make sense for the Dolphins to say, okay, well let me let me go try to go get this shiny object. And to your point, Mark, if so, I think Mike McDaniel will walk right into He's know it would work so well with him, because you have to be good at something right, Like we talked about Parcels, Belichick, all these people like it all looks different than what Mike McDaniel looks like. But being around him, I'm not kidding.

He is an X and O savant and I've been around I think I did the math. Maybe ten or eleven head coaches like that in my career that ended up being head coaches or word head coaches at one point and by far coordinators between Shanahan and McDaniel. McDaniel

was one of those guys. Again, it was quirky. The way he thought about it was completely different than anything I'd heard, but it all made sense and it always worked, and so I'm like, yeah, maybe he's not the raw right guy, maybe he doesn't speak a certain way, maybe it's not what we're used to seeing. But ultimately, players want to win, and players want to do well and maximize their opportunity and make the most money they can. And he was always great at putting them in that position.

So guys will respond if I know, no matter what, you have the answer to the test. And he he does that in a really big way. Big test now in the next two weeks or the offense four straight losses. Let's take a break and then we'll finish the rest of the news. All Right, we're back J J. Watt. It's over. Pull up the pull it up, pull the tweet up. There Drew behind the glass, eight ft seven, doesn't say a word. No, he carries a big stick.

Co is first ever NFL game. It's a photo of J. J. Watt with his wife and his beautiful child, my last ever NFL home game. My heart is filled with nothing but loving gratitude. It's been an absolute honor and a pleasure. Sounds like looks like a retirement tweet. And then the people followed up and yes, indeed, J. J. Watt will walk away from the game after this season. He is obviously a Hall of Fame player, three time Defensive Player of the Year, Um, one of the great players in

the A T N Era. I'm gonna say one of the best, uh most dominant players. He's going with Canton Greg g Um. People won't really remember the end of the run in Arizona, but those Houston years were some of the most dominating years you've ever seen from any defensive player or what was the big big through En was the year he got m VP votes even though he was on like a mediocre Texans team and he was a defensive player. Was maybe the greatest season I've

ever seen out of a defensive player. He had more pressures in that season than any players ever had pressures. And I do think about our podcast because that is when we started, and I think he's he was at that peak, the best defensive player I've ever seen, like we've like we've only I've only covered it game like this is twenty years. But in that twenty years, to me, for those three years, he was better than anyone else because he was two pounds in six six, but he

won with speed like in moves. It really wasn't just like, oh, I'm gonna play inside in power like he was beating tackles on the edges in those years and it just didn't make any sense of the three hundred pound guy there's he was kind of one of one that way. One of the earliest j J. Watt moments where I think he became a household name obviously, was against the Bengals in that wild card game that they put it like six in the mornings. It was like low ratings,

just get this thing over with on a Saturday. But he picks six Andy Dalton, and I'll never forget because we had Chris Wesley, the Bengals fan who, like you know, was zoned in on the Bengals. Not a Bengals fan, he was he had reasons to dislike them, And that really was the opening moment that I think made Andy Dalton the Dalton scale obvious like character because it was like get to the playoffs, do it just enough, and then have a moment where someone else becomes a star

because of one of your errors. And you were in that game that I've seen a lot of Big J. You can like feed away from him and he's pellings. He was good. He was huge too. That was always the biggest takeaway, slamming you when you're just like, yeah, absolutely, He's like one of those dudes you bump into, he doesn't notice, and you're like god, and he just keeps doing what he does. I remember that pick six that sucked um and then also Tea we played him at

the Browns. It was just crazy to watch him. You know, again, nobody could block the dude. He was too fast, he was too big, he was too quick, he was too everything adown and he goes to play offense and had to touchdown catch and it's like, okay, what are we doing here? And he was very amped up against the Cleveland crowd that day. I thought he just was sort of shoving it in people's face like that. We're just traveling down and it's great. I mean, he's an interesting figure.

I mean, he's God. We had some fun with him on the show, just because sometimes he felt a little disingenuous about the way he went about things. I always remember covering the Hard Knocks season where he you know, there was a whole montage of him after practice sun went down and all of a sudden, the lights were up and he was practicing alone on the field, like throwing a tire um, you know, a hundred yards. It was just like is this real or is this like

J J. Watt image paper? Uh? To his credit sometimes yeah, you you didn't know what to make of him from a personality standpoint, But like the Hurricane Harvey stuff where he was one of the largest UM crowdsource fundraisers ever that he spearheaded personally was like a big you know, showing of like what he's really about. And he's always been very good with the fans. So sometimes he felt a little corny, but you can't deny how great he was, and he's one of the more memorable guys, certainly of

his generation. Well, we also got a wrist slap once for talking about his UH clothing line he had years ago. Really,

what is that about? We got in trouble with some people that are no longer at the company UM, but it will always be part of our lower anything to do a little slap, And there was maybe it might have been a meeting where the transcriptions of a certain podcast segment were printed out and read aloud to us UH and then like like waved in our face like a puppy that had just h I have a note in my personnel file based on that incident. In the

transcription has me basically quiet for most of it. Other than basically saying that men's fashion is needs rescuing, I didn't say a single thing about I just figured the statute of limitations are up. Now we can we can discuss this publicly. Had nothing to do. Why nothing to do a day day personally? Um. He Also, by the way it was played, well, I did the top free agents lists coming out next. He was gonna be in the top twenty five. He was balling out right. Now

He's got nine and a half sacks here. He's still disrupt or not at that same level. Injuries took antroll, but he will be going to the Hall of Fame in five years, no doubt. Uh. And other news, Mike White is back in for the Jets. He was cleared by doctors. He has those multiple broken ribs that is believed, um. But after missing two weeks he'll return. And just to give you an idea of how um far Zack Wilson has fallen out of favor, um, not just with the

fans but also the organization. He'll be once again made inactive, so he's completely out of the mix. I talked about it with my dad Keith on the podcast on Thursday that I think that was the end of the Zach Wilson era in New York. I think they will um probably aggressively attempt to move him in the off season and just start over at the position. But you also have to keep in the mind the possibility that Mike

White has an opportunity here. Uh, the way things broke for the Jets after Thursday, now they just gotta win

to one Patriots loss and they're in the playoffs. That's all feasible starting with game against Seattle and White makes I think the thing mark about White and Zack Wilson, especially his Wilson's struggles were so vast that I really did think it was affecting both sides of the ball and pulling down the team's confidence and taking him out of the mix really fills me with some confidence ahead of this year, we talked about these teams were like, the defensive side is like, can you just do like

the base the bare minimum and we'll handle the rest. That's been the Jets and like, you know, the Zach Wilson experience, and you've been around a lot of you know, up and down quarterbacks, but like you've got to be that guy behind the scenes, and we don't have that experience with Zach Wilson. Accept it led through to us.

You could see that he wasn't and I think the Mike White playing through getting brutalized a couple of weeks ago, um he wanted to get back into no matter what, he's playing through obvious pain, Like that's how you win everyone over. I mean t is sort of a old school quarterback to me, and I think he's on a true audition for a legit shot to be the starter next year, depending on what else they go do. You

gotta get paid too, He's a free agent. If he plays well, I'm just happy he's back because to me, them ending the season out with Flacco or Wilson, you've been one of that stories of the season, and now they get a proper ending. I don't know if they'll make the playoffs or not. I kind of have a sneaky feeling they are going to be the team that gets in I hope. So I feel good. I feel like it's a really good matchup for him against Seattle. I think Seattle right now is like a bottom five

team unfortunately, or bottom eight teams in a month. I'm I'm not totally out of that. That I would love if Tyler Lockett comes back, knows still the best part of their team that is the passing game, but even that's kind of come underwater, stick a pin and that. We'll get to that on the Thursday preview. Uh, real quick. Josh Norman joins the Panthers. J C. Horne. What is going on with Horn right now? Risk surgery today? Maybe maybe as we do this show right now, the incision

can be being made. Three. It's a little late, almost four reminds me of when the Seahawks signed Marshawn Lynch late in the season, Like I think sixt like the last time that Marshawn Lynch. Everybody, this is what it's like. But it's kind of cool. I like Josh Norman's back. We were just doing a Super Bowl broadcast on Sky

Sports with Josh a couple of years. Yeah, he's a little loof Ravens Bengals Flex the Sunday Night Football and uh, finally the NFL may find Mac Jones for a block a low hit on Eli Apple during a return by Cincinnati defense that was turned out that it was not a play because it was ruled. I believe in incomplete pass, but do we have a you can take a look at this like the uh the play by Mac where he's running in the sprint, he just kind of cuts

out Apple from below. And it's not the first time that Mac Jones has been accused of doing some things that weren't um, you know, above board. Put it that way. Jones answered to questions on w e I about his

quote unquote dirty play. Yeah, I think, Um, obviously, you know, I went down in front of him to kind of get in the way to stop him from slowing down Tae Kwon, who obviously couldn't make the tackle there, so just kind of went down in front of him, and UM, trying to stop the fast guy from getting into another fast guy. So just split second decision. And there's a lot that goes into it. Um, you're out there trying to compete in the physical games, so just trying to

help the team win. And UM, I have all the respect for Eli and the Bengals. They played a great game, So UM, there's no hard feelings and definitely no intention to hurt anybody on that play. Um, nor do I believe that. When I'm playing quarterback, that's what I get hit a lot too. So we're all out there playing playing hard and it's just part of the game. Hawk you buy is a man who played the game? Is that was? That? Was that dirty? Is Mac Jones dirty? Well?

What's your take on that? That was absolutely a dirty play? Which you know, maybe I'm about the guy to ask because I don't want to hate it. It was dirty. He's gotta and maybe in his mind he really does think he's doing the right thing, like, Oh, this is me being a competitor, this is me showing that I'll do anything to win, and some people think that that's a good thing. I've played with players like that. We'll

try hard guy. Yeah, but it's absolutely dirty. He couldn't have been more polite to Chandler Jones and people weren't thrilled with that either. So here's the thing, He's had a lot of these types of moments. To me, it's all of a piece. It's not all just like diving that guy's knees, although there's been a few of those. Two it's just like you can almost tell he's that guy that like, I think it's so in a froth.

And I know, look, that's a lot of NFL players in different ways, but I think he just sort of loses himself elf when he's on the field, and he's very competitive and that's probably helped him get to where he is on some level. But he makes it hard to root for him sometimes because this is not watching

every one of his games. It's not the first time something like this, like this idea of Mac Jones being the Ty Cobb of his generation and the NFL just like fleets up, like just like looking to hurt people I did was exactly. It was a little bit of telling on yourself. I thought at the end though, and he's like, listen, people hurt me. That's my job, some punishment whatever. I don't know. It's been a it's been a tough year for that man. All right, let's uh,

that's what's happening in the news. All right, let's before we get to the TNF preview. You gotta want to figure out, like what's the best playoff bracket, Like what what would be a perfect setup going into January. Mark, I know you've been well, Greg, I know you your your data, your algorithms. Um, I don't know if you know this talking. You know worked with Greg previously, we didn't get data analytic Greg. It's unbelievable his ability to

crunch numbers in real time and spit out uh data points. Um. What is it Greg to you that when you when the data is inserted into your hard drive, that you're spinning out is the best possible playoffs? Yes, in terms of my happiness, but we're not interested in that. What you're are you talking? Most likely? Are you talking what I want? What I want? I mean, I do want Gina Smith to make it happen, but I don't believe it will happen. And so then you look at the

the NFC playoff picture, and I will start with the NFC. Okay, I think getting those Eastern teams, the Giants in Washington out would be beautiful. And then you get two of the following three in Seattle, Detroit or Green Bay. Now, I personally like Seattle in Detroit. The problem is the

Giants their magic numbers essentially one. At this point, they're at a point because everyone lost last week, that they're almost certainly gonna get in even if they don't win a game and their favorite this week uh to win they have they who do they play this week? The Giants? Uh, they have a easy home game this week the Colts where they're pretty big favorites. But I could see the Giants blowing that. So they're probably in any of those

final three. But I want the Week eight team Detroit Green baking Detroit Green Bay winning in scenario Week eighteen, that being the Sunday night football game. All that needs to happen is Detroit needs to win this week, Green Bay needs to win, which is tough against Minnesota, and then Seattle and Washington both lose this week. Then it's essentially it's an early playoff game Detroit Green Bay Lambeau as your season finale. That's a perfect Sunday night is

very nice. I like that matchup. Yeah, what about you and Mark? Because I agree like I want the team of a t N the Detroit Lions to make this. I'm a little I am shaken. I didn't get a chance to watch the game till yesterday. My god, what the hell happened to Aaron Glenn's defense in Charlotte? What was that? It happens that actually pivots into what I want. This is what I want. Um, I want the Carolina Panthers to um usurp the hideously boring to watch bucks.

I don't care about that situation. When you get the Panthers have no showed in a couple of these games, Like you go to that Bengals game and gets the get it was the Bengals, but like they ran for like thirty four yards. But then there's been these flip flop weeks where they did they did last week where they were on pace for even more than three yards

in that game. And when you get that version of Carolina, I think you could cause absolute and total chaos early on in the playoffs if you get a defense that can handle the run. And I just want to see it maybe happen. And then you like, you know, you get Sam Donald winning up winning the playoff game where he throws for sixty four yards, that would be chaotic and Steve Wilkes would get a head coaching job out

of it. How much confidence Sam was playing with this we well, it helps if you're gonna run for three and he was, I mean he I mean, I'm feeling Sam right now. Um, how about this hawk. Is there a reality in the NFC And it seems like this side of the table feels this way where the playoffs would better without Tom Brady involved? Are we there yet? Oh man? This year? Yeah? Probably? I felt that way for a long time. I'm in a big Tom fan.

But you know, the season to get old, it's like watching a TV show, like it's at some point we gotta we need new villains, we need new heroes. So I think it would make sense. I I dark horse Saints and playoff in and him with the Saints his playoff. He would like that for chaos, because Saints fans would it. There's actually an article that just came out minutes ago from Mike Florio speculating that Sean Payton and Tom Brady could maybe get together in New Orleans. And I want

that to be as uncomfortable as possible. I want them to to have to get rid of Dennis Allen, Sean Payton's old assistant, even after he makes the playoffs. And poor Andy Dalton, your guy who you always said was beloved by his teammates, and you paid a lot of people paid, and so you are a big Dalton. I changed my name to Andy. My my original name was Marcus. Because of him, I legally started going by Andrew. That

is a factoid. That's interesting. Uh yeah, I'm trying to think what and if the Vikings because we know the Vikings source by the way, it just just the fact that, let's be real, these sources are close to Sean Payton. They're they're putting out there strong that he might be going back to New Orleans. Maybe he sees what's going on in l A. He was trying to take Brandon Staley's job. It's not gonna work. Now there's a mess.

Sean go back to New Orleans where they'll pay you a lot of money and you know everyone it's not a bad that has Jimmy Johnson Dan Marino vibes written all over. To me, I don't like the idea of watching onto Tom Brady, that's the Saints coach right now. He also sees the Cowboys on pace or twelve or thirteen wins and he's like, I don't know if I'm gonna be able to get that job. Uh, Vikings have the two seed right now. Um, I'm trying to think who the Vikings are gonna play A barn burn or

whoever they play against. So a Vikings Lions matchup would be or Vikings where they suddenly plugged in Aaron Rodgers like, I know I'm pretty anti Packers, but something about what's going on with that team right now? If they snuck into a seventh seed and they have to deal with the Vikings who they know very well or or whoever like, but they have to beat the Vikings probably to get there. And now we'll have seen that matchup. So I like that.

I like where you're going. That would be Packers, maybe forty Niners. Then you hit Minnesota down to the three. The problem is whoever is playing the Giants. That's a bad game. Minnesota Giants is a very underwhelming Well it was a good game this past week and now, but do we need that twice as like a playoff? I want to talk Greg born and raised Patriot fan. He thinks, at I just want to see the most entertaining teams

that are gonna be left Giants. Um, let's see on the A f C side, it's pretty I mean, right now we have uh Bill's Chiefs Bengals one to three. It's very unclear who's gonna take that by but there's a Bill's Bengals game coming up, which is spicy. Um. What do you like for the What are the teams that are kind of on the fringe here and hawk that you like? Um, I will this is gonna sound like sacrilegious. As a Bengals and Browns fan, I am

both one of the very few in the country. Um. But I like the idea of Tomlin being able to take this team and get him in because I just think I think he's a very underrated coach and I think I mean, he's never had a losing season and this year was like, oh, it's this is There's no way you'll get in the playoffs this year because your team is not good, you don't have a quarterback, you don't have this. So there's something from just a football

perspective that excites me about there. What's the path for the Steelers to the postseason. It's very It's crazy because you think of like the Jets and Steelers have had such different seasons, but now they just have the same records. You know, there they are, they are equal, and yet they're not equal because Steelers lose every time break possible. They're eleventh, so they need the to finish basically with a better record than everyone, So they need to win

their two games. They need the Patriots and the Jets and possibly the Titans to the Titans actually could get a wild card in a weird scenario, it's not gonna happen. Really need them all to lose. How is that possible because we figured out before the show that that wasn't I thought the Tennessee can get a wild card. I feel like it's really essentially win the division or check you later. I think, Um, they they would basically need everyone to lose and finish with an eight and nine record.

It depends who they would be tied with. Yes, but that'll all be gone this weekend anyways. Uh. They also need Miami to lose two straight. It's it's kind of simple. They just need to have a better record than everyone, which isn't that crazy. They're just one behind Miami and tied with everyone else. But they need a lot of help. They have a three percent chance according to five thirty

eight because of all the help that they need. Yeah, they're they're basically done because they need all this stuff to happen. Miami and New England are playing each other. So one of those teams is gonna win this week, then they need the Jets in Miami, like they need the Jets to lose this week and then the Jets to beat Miami next week. It's a lot. What about you and Mark when you're looking up. So I went through all this and like, here's here's what I like

to see the Jets sneak in. Is the seven all right, and they probably wind up playing And in this world, I have them playing like I have the Bills as the second seed, so you get a Bills Jets. They said it solid, said it's gonna happen, so just give it to them and let's see what happens there with Mike white Plane. But then I want this other matchup to happen. I'm not into the Ravens right now, um, but I think they're gonna get in. But Jaguar's charted, well,

I'm just saying like that. Then, like I don't want them the playoffs, but I can't win that battle. So there I have them playing the Chiefs and go go do something if you want to my belief back. But then I have Jaguars Chargers. I like the idea of the verse Lawrence. That is a spicy matchup. That to me would be you want new faces, you want Brady out of here. That's new faces. I was. I said this, uh with Andrew Ciciliano in NFL. Now I think there's a a berserker here in the a f C playoff picture.

This thing's not gonna go chalk. This year has been too weird. The Chargers or the jack Strike, either of those teams. I can see them getting hot and also be playing an AFC title game because Deserver can't be a team that we've seen like the Ravens in the playoffs, you know, twenty seven years in a row. It's gotta be gotta fresh face, an element of surprise. Herbert being in the playoffs makes the playoffs much spicier. We need

Jacksonville to beat Tennessee. I was wrong. I don't know if we got to take it out of the show. You're right, Tennessee cannot be the wild card. I was to keep that in the show, keeping it. I was thinking Jacksonville could be the wild card still Jack vil Ken if everyone else uh. And then they lost to the Titans, but they would need Miami to lose out. Everyone needs Miami to lose that I kind of want

Teddy Bridgewater if he's going to be playing. You're here's the thing, why is this back in our life that Patriots in the in the Bucks two teams in theory? I would like and I have like they need to be put out. Their teams that need to be put out of their misery. They're miserable, They're like begging to be put out of their misery, and and then it needs to happen. And so I think this Miami team

has been a huge part of this season. I'd like to at least have it be Miami Jets decides that last spot and then I'm like, oh yeah, flex it into primetime. I was like, no, do not put the Jets in primetime on a circumstances that it's possible if they were winning in that could be, that could be the primetime game. This is going to be exciting in

the a f C just from the quarterbacks alone. Like that's why I this is very you know, blue sky, but I would love for Miami to get in into way to play because you look at to Lamar Herbert my home burrows. Now that's possible if you're too if he's healthy. It needs to be. But let's do it. Let's let's let's have some fun. I'm sure Buffalo needs to beat this. Uh when this Bengals game to keep that one seater. Euse Kansas City, who has two pretty

easy games, probably gets into it. Hey, Grave Digger, I hate to put you on the spot here, but um, are forked teams? Do you have them on hand? By any chance? Give me like thirty just like I'll take Let's take a break, and when we come back from break, you'll give us the teams that we forked, which Hawk means a few weeks back, we deemed certain teams had no chance of making the playoffs and if we get

them wrong, Greg gives to a charity. Um, I got a feeling we're in danger with multiple team Yeah, alright, we know who they are. Let's take a break. Let's take a break back. Oh well, we're still taking a break. We'll be back. All right, We're back as as promised. If you're just joining us, Hawk is here, everybody, Um, would you be weird because this is a podcast? Uh? Justin what are the teams that we forked? About a month plus one? All right, we are looking at the Packers,

Cardinals probably trouble cards were safe. Everyone's kind of saying like, Okay, the Packers are back this and that they still have a game against the Vikings. Were in every game at the very least in a game against the Lions, the team of a t L that we believe in. So I think that's still a very tough road to get road. But also not like deadly lies are the official team of the factors have also spoiled a lock for me like three or four times this year, So zero factor.

They're gonna keep spoiling stuff for people. At my pointy, Cardinals, they're probably done. Jaguar there they are, the jack Wires. We're in a lot of trouble with the Jags, Greg. I'd start looking into some duval Um food banks right now they're in at this point, I mean, the Titans have just gagged this away losing five stream Mark joined the bandwag help that woman with the lake or the seaside house, that our friend from the Jacksonville fan community.

What else? Um Steelers? Why the forks for like four years to that if if if? Then it become just me, Oh yeah, you guys are cheap. What else? Cults Safe, super safe, Safe, feel good about that one, Browns with Nick Shook on that Sunday night pretty Safe. And finally the Panthers. Oh my god, this is officially the worst year we've ever each to one of these charities, with all three of these, the best part is like how confident you were in the moment for many of these

two packers. In fairness to you, you were not confident And I know I tried to take it back, but it was too late. We'll see, all right. Before we say goodbye, let's hit the TNF preview. And this TNF preview is presented by Prime Video, the new exclusive home for Thursday Night Football. Grave Diggers stay with us here because, as we established earlier, this game means nothing for the Titans in the standings. They can't be the wild card. They can win the division, but they can't win the

division unless they beat the Jaguars next week. Um do you? But they've also lost five in a row, so that's when it becomes the discussion. Do you try to start your guys and and try to get off the schneide ahead of that huge game, or do you rest guys? It's kind of a weird somewhat depressing subplot to track ohead of this game. Yeah, we saw something slightly similar in the twenty nineteen season. The Titans had a Week

sixteen back when they're only seventeen weeks. Week sixteen game against the Saints, and Derrick Henry was kind of questionable to play and they sat him for that game. Titans barely lost, but it didn't matter for the standings. He was back for the season finale and then he had that huge playoff run where he ran all over the Patriots and the Ravens. This year, I kind of expect

something similar. Denico Autry, Zach Cunningham, Bud Dupree, Christian Fulton, Derrick Henry, a Mony Hooker, Nicholas Petit Frere, Ryan Tannehill, Jeffrey Simmons. These are all starters who are not practicing this week. I'd be pretty surprised if they played. This is basically a preseason game for the Titans. In terms of how much it matters, we should not have al Michael's doing this game. I couldn't agree to keep Alan Malibu.

Send him to Moonshadows get a cocktail. I mean, even if they look they were trying their best to beat the one win Texans, and they didn't, you know, managed to do that. So playing their best players is no guarantee that they would be competitive against the good God ask you a question, because like there's this lingering potential hope that Tannehill maybe would suit up in week eight team depending on the surgery. It sounds like a distance hope.

But do you put Malik Willis out there? I know he needs as many snaps as possible, but if you ever, but if you lost him, what are you doing in week eighteen? Like you literally why not protect like your start? You're potentially only healthy starting already. Yeah, it's just likely, like they have to get him those rights. When Frabel said, like his answer about Malik Willis was, I think he's getting better, Like Rebels just sitting here being like, I

don't know what's going on at this point. I think he's emotionally probably pretty beat up. They need to come up with a game plan for week eighteen or centered around willis Is strength, his running. I thought you were a little hard on him, Grave Digger saying he hasn't shown as much running and he had a couple of great runs. He had two really good runs, but he also doesn't show like the feel for when to take off and when he can beat a guy out there telling him to stay to throw the ball. I did

not be scrambling, and that's part of it. And just in case you're curious right now, and this could move considerably considering we don't know the sat of several of these Tennessee regulars. Dallas is already a double digit favorite here so this game and you think about their situation where they still have an outside shot of takeing NFC East,

they put a little pressure on the Eagles. If they spank the Titans already put that twelve win in their bag, then all of a sudden, Eagles might not have Jalen Hurts on the field against the Saints. And it gets a little bit interesting with Gardner Minshew on the field. I'm finally in my fantasy league championship and Derrick Henry is my star player, so not exciting. I beat my son Greg. I know typically you know that he always whips me. Does it feel better to beat him or

is it a better sweet to defeat him? I feel great, um and I love the kid, but he talks a lot of smacks, so it felt it felt good to get over get over the hump. Yeah, how about the Henry Um fumbles too, that's hurting your fantasy team. I mean that turned that game around. It is like a Murphy's Law situation for the Titans right now. They they needed him to be like at his very best and

h Henry has not either. So the Cowboys it's one of those a little bit of a gift from the football gods, but they still got to go take care of this kind of a gift to get for either team a longer break before Week eight to they need. They need to work on some of their defensive pieces. They haven't been the same lately. I think they'll be excited to play this Titans offensive line parts and can rack up some sacks for like defensive player of the year like the second They need to feel good game

on defense. Yeah, they have one sack in the last three weeks. The Cowboys doing They were shut out by Philadelphia last week. This this does profile with Tennessee's offensive line as a get healthy game where you can maybe get six or seven sacks and and everybody's flying high, get a huge lead and you can actually insert the guy who pretends he's Dak Prescott in the NFL Pro Era, ad like into this game. That's how the quarterback game. Alright, good stuff. That was the t NF preview presented by

Prime Video. The new era of Thursday n Football is officially here, and it's only on Prime Video. Um, Hawk, you've said it all. You've you've come here, You've launched a company day that is uh provides the first fully licensed NFL virtual reality simulation game. I mean that no one else on earth could ever duplicate that. You've just thought it was lip service debut. Nobody leaves no debut and gets out alive. Um, and yet you've done it. So check out NFL Pro Era. Um. What else you

got going on? You're gonna be this weekend? I feel like you're very active, man. Maybe there's a stand up special coming out telling no no stand up. I got some things coming in twenty three. I'll come back on in promo those cool? Alright, very good? Alright, So Hawk, thank you, great digging everybody behind the glass, thank you. What do we gotta come up this week? Got Thursday preview show? What do you got going on? I'm doing all the things you're doing this essentially, you know, my

activity person the life of what's going on. We're not gonna take into that right now. It's getting a lot of buzz on YouTube. I got the Power Rankings of Powers podcast with Connie Fox and myself. Whicheck got the QB Index. Uh. Greggy's game picks Hawks game. Oh man, there's a lot of cooking. He's a call