The Around the NFL podcast still thinks they could pass for college students from the Chris Wesley podcast to do. I don't know who is claiming that in this room.
Was that the consistent like angry agism theme coming from.
Jason's I think it might have been a reference hens.
It's Around the NFL. I'm Dan Hansis, Greg Rosenthal, Mark Secler. Yeah, Mark went to Coachella? What of it?
Why is it made such a tremendous deal of I don't know. It seems like someone else has issues with it much more than I do. I came, I went, it's my moved on, It's now?
Was it Thursday? It's Thursday.
The most surprising thing about it was you are a self admitted not a music guy. Yeah, but he was the only surprising. Well, first of all, that's I wouldn't. That's that's an over explanation.
That's off base. Like I do like tons of music. I went there and found new stuff that I liked, but there's about seven thousand other things that you can accomplish there and see and do, so, you know, get off his back is what?
That's the taste? Who's they?
And I came back here with all these production elements attacking my weekend choices.
Yeah, what what's going on? What's going behind the scenes? Who propelled you to to to go down that road? Justin?
I didn't write that drop, but I did receive it a little while ago, and I thought, based on the things that had happened earlier this week on the show, that it made sense to be you know, you would imagine.
I would imagine that not all layers of the pre planning process have been revealed to myself.
The narrative, the narrative was in place, you're saying, Justin, and you were just extending the narrative right the through line of this week's.
I always try to find story line, a zum drop that relates to what is happening in the show.
And I think that's just good producing. You know what else would be good producing? Suggesting that, you know, it's the off season. We got some extra breathing space here. We should do the seven thousand things at Coachella and not in music that you can get into podcast. I think that'd be fun. It's made a bit of a mouthful, but I'd like to hear all seven thousand be happy to race that.
And I think any writers behind the scenes might have some that might be more material. Exactly unbelievable. It all folds into one seamless production. Speaking of our producer, Justin Graver, there had been as I understand it, this was a little surprising to me, but people aren't clear on some details of our live Round one stream of the NFL Draft and what exactly it is. I guess we didn't do me included by the way, so we didn't do the job that we were trying to do in the
last show in terms of explaining what it is. So do you want to perhaps provide clarity to those members of the audience?
And Mark, absolutely, I would love to. So we're going to be live on YouTube during the first round of the draft that Thursday, I play.
You did but just for you.
During the first round of the draft next Thursday night, April twenty seventh, we'll be live at eight pm Eastern five pm Pacific, basically to watch the first round of the draft. If you guys have ever wondered what's it like to watch the draft with the atn heroes, this is your chance. We're not going to be broadcasting the draft footage or coverage, so sort of like a compendium.
Put the draft on your TV on NFL Network, open up your laptop, your tablet, your phone, stream the atn show, and hang out with us during the draft.
Where people wondering if we'd be tipping picks or something like that.
Like I I think people were wondering if we would show the like Goodell announcing each pick or anything like that. We won't be tipping. We won't be tipping picks. We won't be doing any of that. We're just gonna be like hanging out watching the draft.
So join us.
It's gonna be fun.
And I love I love the word compendium. Else I also want to say, like if people don't want to to do it in concert with the telcast, I say you should and watch NFL Network. But we're going as soon as the draft pick is made by Roger Goodell, we're going to repeat it as well, so we could be a one stop shop if you need us to be as well.
We certainly will be mentioning it. We will not be calling it a compendium though. COMPENITM. Yeah, I think you were trying to think of adendum. I don't even know a compendium is a summary. According to dictionary dot com a brief treatment or account of a subject. I don't think it works in this context in any way. Companion or a dendum, I guess.
I don't think a compendium would be three plus hours long.
No, it's either way. It's it's not a word that makes any sense to their context.
English is kind of hard, you know.
It was just roll it, shut up. It's axillary.
I mean, if we're gonna give them, there's some people that have told me they've learned English by listening to this podcast, and I wouldn't I wouldn't want to.
Would you please shake today's show?
Good?
One more draft coverage. Mike Tannenbaum, former front office GM and executive vice president. He's done it all in our league and now he's an insider for ESPN and a friend of the show. This is not Mike's first trip to around the NFL land. He's going to join us a little bit later, but before we do that, speaking of the listeners and viewers that we love oh so much, sent out a mailbag prompt yesterday, draft questions, comments, theories, What do you have got? And I thought they did
a nice job. I thought they did a nice job. Is that always the case.
I mean, I feel like the performance goes up and down. At this time they seem primed.
I would say, who's like a inconsistent, Like who's known for being inconsistent in the NFL? He can't quite put a finger on his performance? Is like a Baker Mayfield. Baker Mayfield sort of fits that. Yeah, so we're care but this was Baker playing the Broncos on Christmas or whatever. Great performance. Let's get to it. Maybe we're shorting the audience with Baker.
Yeah, for a franchise in turmoil, and you know how about Kirk Cousins.
Let's do it kind of steady ed, Derek Carr Car.
Derek Carr Car, let's go there. But that's only when it comes to the mail bag. Let's go through some questions that kind of jumped out that were solid justin, let's go you want to read him justin.
I'd be happy to read. Okay, go ahead, all right, at Dan at around the NFL. Okay, welcome this one. I did because it's where do you Dan? And each of the heroes want to see richardson land. Also, I implore Mark to flex his third eye after his stay in the desert to peek into the future and relay to us whether this young man's tail be tall or tragic. That's from Yakobabro.
I like that one, very good Yako. This man is celebrating for twenty today. This tweet. The author of the tweet.
For twenty bro twenty brouh to our really high damn damashek who would do that in the newsroom very often, very.
Often Anthony Richardson polarizing, tantilizing draft prospect out of the University of Florida. Mark.
My first instinct is enough with this jazz about the Falcons telling us that Desmond Ridder is the second coming of someone else. Like, just go get Anthony Richardson. I love the idea of him being developed there in a run heavy offense that can use everything he does. You can use Ritter this year and let Richardson grow into what he is. I think richards and someone who's we're gonna be like, oh, he's a raw project who will be starting by the second half of week two.
Yeah, I'd love to see him with the Lions' That was my easy choice. Like, I think the Seahawks should take him. It's taken me a while to get to this point, because you know how I feel about Gino. But I just think with their system and the way they develop players, I think the Seats actually should take Richardson because it's such an opportunity at the top of
the draft. But I don't think they will, and I will be happy that they don't if the Lions grab him right after that and he's the quarterback of the future.
There exciting. If the Falcons come out of this draft with Desmond Ridder and then all these different free agency they brought in, I'm going to eather their asses on Saturday night, go get a quarter I'm looking for it to interesting if they get a quarterback that you can really get excited about. Some people think that's Desmon Ridder. Raise your hand if you're out there next.
All right, Next question from Blair Carrigan. Quote intangibles, quote, get out of jail, phrases used by GMS league wide. First question over under how many times this will be uttered on Draft night? And second part top ten drinking game words for Draft night.
That's good. Let's see.
I mean value, you would be drunk. If Hammer he's the word value.
Aaron Rodgers, you'd be sauced. Let's see what is it? Bendable? Yeah, I think bendable.
I feel like sometimes can be a little more of a Day two or Day three where they're really doing the old stretch for content. Whatever we need to do talk about is how the way his legs and ankles, moth.
Trade up, trade back, tremendous upside, upside, high motor guy. You could do a Bengo card. You really could sleep or pick student of the game.
Intangibles is annoying because like intangibles could mean literally anything off like off the field means almost anything. Like Jalen Carter, for instance, has a very serious thing that happened in his life that changed his life, and I think that should be considered. But I've seen it kind of thrown that in like the fact that oh does he play hard every play like, and they just throw it into one big in tangibles bucket and it's like, you gotta does you're talking.
About does he pass the eye test? He does? That's a good one. And as for the overunder, I would say intangibles on the you're talking about the and we everything we drive through the NFL Network telecast the eight o'clock to eleven o'clock or whatever Eastern NFL network telecast. I'm gonna say fourteen and a half for intangible.
I'll set the overunder best available player. That's one here, here's the one that annoys me. It's like, oh, you can plug him in for ten years. Like, that's a ten year starter. Plug and play ten years. It's always ten and it's always a guard right and by the way, guards like haven't been that safe picks in general, but it's always like, oh, plug and play ten years.
This guy was his pro day was unbelievable. All right, what else we got? I like this one? By the way, trash can full of dirt. I don't even know what.
Yeah, that's pretty common. You know, maybe we should make a Bingo card for our draft show next Thursday and play this game as it goes.
Great, great call defensive linemen who are hard to move out of the way, A trash can full of dirt?
Have you ever tried? Pretty good? It's the heavy object.
I think we could, we could come up with a fun list. We would be drinking the gatorade the official NFL pepsi so much.
Yeah, let's get a big whiteboard, a Bengo board.
Yeah, okay, fun, all right. Next question from Joe liften a draft theory, actually not a question. The Detroit Lions will take two d linemen and or edge rushers with their picks at six and eighteen, and defenses across the NFL will be overwhelmed with this talent complementing Hutchinson and Houston, and the Lions will surpass the seventy sacks of the Eagles.
Okay, so that's seventy sacks. That's a high number. I don't know about all that, but I totally believe they should do the old Speaking of tropes and cliches, I think the Lions should think very hard about doing the the all defense draft, where you the team that feels like it's only one side of the ball that's giving them trouble, and then they very consciously only draft players on that side of the well. I feel like the Cowboys have done that three or four times under Jara
in the last ten years or so. I love the idea of them going and getting whether it's Will Anderson or Tyree Wilson.
Carter might fall to them at six.
That would be crazy if Carter next to Hutchinson would be parm with Hutchinson and then have a real strength in your front seven because I don't think the offense. I might be asking too much for the offense to be as good as it was last year, but I don't think it's gonna crater. So I love the idea of building up that defense for Dan Campbell and then seeing what happens.
I like the spot there, and I don't feel like they have massive needs, so they can do whatever they want. I think they want to take defensive lineman. I think it'd make more sense at six because it feels like defensive linemen get pushed up a lot. This class seems not super deep, and taking one again at eighteen. They have taken Hutchinson, Own Muza, Riique, Josh Pascal, Ale McNeil, and there's another one I think that's not even on
the team anymore. That slips my mind. They've taken a lot of linemen under Dan Campbell.
I mean, Hutchinson worked out so far. That's part of it is like actually hitting on these draft picks. The Detroit Lions have been drafting top five for like seven eons in a row.
And remember the Lions. They get four games against the Bears and the Vikings. Well maybe the Vikings will be better on.
And it's a Viking shade.
The defense was wretched lest team? All right? What else?
All right?
From the Strength of Record podcast being popped for them here, If the Packers draft a wide receiver out of spite, is that what it takes for Rogers to get his second ring? But with another team chip on his shoulder?
What is going on? Let's check out that wide receiver room for it's pretty rough the Packers is that it would be kind of ironic if Rogers is gone and they use the first round pick.
And Dobbs are there one and two, which.
Seems is obviously gone now there too.
It seems insane, and they don't have a three Samari Tory, I guess.
And then they had two first round picks last year in a great wide receiver class and they punted on it. And now they're almost desperate for a wide receiver and it's not seen as a great wide receiver class, so of course they will probably take it. It looks like spiteful timers.
But I mean, if you suddenly are gonna roll with Jordan Love, which they are, like, you have to build, it's not the same thing with Aaron Rodgers, where you trust him his smart's, his pre snap, et cetera, to do it all for you. Look, Jordan Love needs to be surrounded by human beings that can help them out.
They might be looking at the Graybeard's lineup and seeing jar they need to bring in some veterans. They need a tight end too, so I think they could take the first tight end off the board at fourteen wouldn't be totally shot.
And as for the strength of Record podcast theory here, I do think there is some juice to get behind about Rogers. All the great ones will find motivation and try to stick it to the Packers this year. I don't know if it's gonna be the Packers drafting a wide receiver that really is what gives them the eye of the tiger though, So no, I don't think that's gonna do it. But check out the Strength of Record podcast? What is it? Horri five times a week? Yeah, I
don't know. What is the Strength of Record? Pot?
Is it a podcast?
And look into it? I don't know, Okay, dangerous.
This one comes from Robert's Burner. Going into last year, it was the consensus view among analysts that Seattle had one of the worst rosters in the league, a narrative that proved totally wrong. Which team or teams with a good draft class could exceed expectations in terms of roster talent this year.
The first thing that comes to mind is if they go quarterback, which they're going to, and they get it right and the quarterback plays right away. The Carolina Panthers, I think they there's a lot of talent on both sides of the ball, and you've got that Frank Reich coaching boost. A lot of chaos has been put away, and I think there's just they they've played without a quarterback for ages.
Things could change.
I think that was a perfect choice. I don't know if I can top it that. The Falcons I think have chance the rest of the roster. They've just signed a lot of okay guys. But the okay guys are upgrades over what they have, and so I think they are only a couple pieces away. They would be another one, but I like the Panthers answer better.
I will throw out the Chicago Bears, who have can't be a lot worse draft assets, and they have added some bodies in there and justin fields, hopefully is fully healthy. I think with a good draft class, they could be a team that is in contention in that division. Potentially, that's a wide open division. I think the NFC North interesting division fields is the key and he needs help. All right, more mailbag to hit. But let's pause for a quick break. All right, we're back here we go.
This next question comes from Will Savage. Is the Colts moving up to two or three? I guess to get Stroud or Young a real possibility? Would the Texans be willing to trade down? I'm assuming he means with the Colts.
Doesn't it feel like Jim Mersey has something up his sleeve? You see tweet?
No, he basically said, we can move up, we can move down, we can do what we can, sit right where we are and get someone they're going after a quarterback.
Wait, so what did that tweet? Actually? What was he saying?
He's saying, like, would the Texans actually trade down?
So what is jimers saying with that?
All options seem available to the Indianapolis cults in terms of it, like what they'd be allowed license to go do?
Get crazy?
He also didn't he like he like sent out the pictures of the different quarterback. It's yes, it's preposterous. I like the theory. I think I saw it from Trevor U. Sikama apologies if I pronounced it wrong from PFF who thought the whole Texans like we're gonna not draft the quarterback smoke screen is all about like getting someone else to trade up to the number three spot. Uh, and they end up actually taking a quarterback at the number two spot and that leaves the Colts out in the
cold and not getting their quarterback. Which I like that as theory because why why are the Texans putting it out there so much that they're not going to take a quarterback. Maybe it's the truth, but I don't trust anything. Like they are absolutely letting national reporters know, like that's that's their plan.
So they're gonna go to those extreme lengths just to essentially pulling over on the Colts.
That's so savage left.
I think it would just be like it's over the commar how about Colts focus on yourselves and same with Texans.
I don't think I think the Colts come out of this if they they gave Lamar Jackson the cold shoulder. To this point, have I think there's no way they don't come out of this draft where they are right now with somebody they really are feeling good about.
Kuld be will Levis. DJ keeps saying lot of teams like Levis.
Okay.
Next question from Matt Anderson actually another draft theory. Joe Douglas can't be bothered to trade for Rogers as he's tired of the Packers games. Instead, Douglas packages picks and moves up to draft.
Will Levis thoughts, I did think, think about what if there was more going on? Then then we realize is it completely out of the realm of possibility that the Jets pull a shocker and take a quarterback? Is that a possibility? Probably not. We're probably too far down the road here with Rogers for anything to happen. But at the same time, like we know Rogers is a short term fixed too, Like we don't know even if he
is a Jet, how long he's gonna be there. I wouldn't rule it out, but like I said on previous show, I would be stunned if they do anything else but take a offensive tackle on Night one.
I mean, if if you're Joe Douglas, first of all, like if this Rogers thing ever went south and there was a plan B, Like that's not going to be received well no matter what. But like, if you're Joe Douglas part two, the idea of drafting a rookie who two months into the receias and you realize this guy also is not working out a La Zachwitz, like, you can't let you can't let you have to go get
Aaron Rodgers because it's the one thing. Even if he is substandard Aaron Rodgers, no one's gonna blame the Jets for going having gone and done that, or Joe Douglas for going and get it done.
I appreciate how quiet it's been. Actually, we would be getting on Rogers saying he wants so much attention if like they'd be keep being the drips and the drabs over the last month. It's just been quietation. I think he's one hundred percent a Jet, right, it's just happening.
It would be wild though they turned in that draft card and it's a quarterback.
It'd be a great draft moment. I would be glad to be on a live stream with you at the time, just like, let's get the disc trade done Thursday night, though, that would be cool because we're not doing a live stream for rounds two and three, and uh, just think about the content. Help us out.
Think about our content specifically.
We have done our Aaron Rodgers emergency podcast already though that's been fine, so.
We did it. We did have a live stream of Mark Sessler when Johnny Manzel uh forever was was drafted. It was actually just like a video on a cell phone, but it went on the end of depressing.
Okay, quick speed round from Jeff Yeats with Joe Mixon's off field and contract situations. How are the Bengals being slept on for a destination for b John Robinson?
Yeah, I love that.
Well, they'd have to trade up. I don't think they're going to get him there, And I think great are the.
Bengals right now twenty eight He's absolutely a Bengal if he's on the board there, but I just don't think he'll be on the board.
What if they moved up twenty eight to eighteen or something, who knows. I love that that would be there'd be a lot of excited people in Cincinnati.
What else, Let's say the GM app is real, which gms would have the hardest time actually using it, which would have the.
Easiest Okay, I looked, I did see this, and I was thinking about this. I think Jerry Jones would struggle. Yeah, but at various times, various times of the day. I think he'd struggle for various reasons. I don't think Bill. I think Bill Belicher gets kind of cute, but he wouldn't be good. But maybe he would be.
I don't know.
Well, we've seen him struggle with cell phone and texting and it led to a major lawsuit against the NFL.
You're right, that's right, that's so tough. That was a bad beat for Bill.
There's so many young gms that I think that the vast majority would be absolutely fine with it.
We need a GM app, though. How much longer can we deal with this?
I don't think John Lynch super mobile. I don't know why. He just seems like he's not living in that world.
All right, keep going.
Justin all right? I think we have time for a couple more only all right? From Johnny Eastgate Mark Sessler's mock draft the highlight of any draft build up. When's it gonna happen? I know we talked about this, but I.
Think Wednesday, Yeah, without fail?
Yes, all right, last question from Sean Black for each of the heroes, who's your guy in the.
All right? Who wants to start?
Well, So, on the episode where Claybahn and Colleen joined, we each picked a draft our guy and it went right through that There was there has been no grumbling about the fact that it went right through all the clearing house boards and all the executives. Do you think I picked Joey Porter Junior because I love the idea of him going either to the Steelers where his father played, or in a major chaotic scenario, going to like the Ravens or something where he goes to their number one rival.
I just was pointing out that it always annoyed me as a younger Browns fan when the Browns who were searching for any sense of identity or help passed on Clay Matthews Junior or everyone who passed on JJ Watt's brother. It's like, let's stop overthinking these things and picking like the bloodlines.
We know we're going to succeed.
This is like a six to three, one hundred and ninety three pound defensive back who can hammer people.
Joey Porter Junior is my guy. Pro nepotism, neo baby. In this case, your guy.
I am saying, if you're gonna go down Nepo road, yeah, get it right, and this is one way to get it right.
Go ahead, Greg, So many appens.
I mean, Anthony Richardson is the guy I'm gonna be the most excited to watch and rooting for, but that he feels too top shelf.
To pick a You must got to go non quarter, so I gotta yeh.
Think about our upcoming guest here, Mike Tanner and go Taj Spears from Tulane, the running back who you can just see placing him in there, and he's gonna fall to the second or third round and then he's gonna have a Matt Forte like career. I know he's a different player than forty, but excellent vision, the way he can make people miss in small areas. He's good on all three downs. He is a player, and he's gonna be repping the greenishly your guy.
Let's let's go to the Kicker Club. I like. I like Eddie Ogamba out of South Dakota. He's got a howitzer a little inconsistent though. Ty Zenner out.
Of TCU he had to pick does one year guy.
Yeah, I'm just narrowing it down. Here. We have Jonathan Cruz out of Old miss Very talented, he's got he's got a big boot. Tanner Brown os u n last year twenty two to twenty three, and he's split the uprights from fifty three. But his leg's not huge. So I'm gonna tell you my three guys that I really wrestled with here. Chad Ryland out of Maryland. Guy was mister automatic last year, hit two fifty plus bombs against Michigan. He could be drafted. I like Christopher Done. A lot
of people say Christopher Done out of NC State. He's your guy. He's the lou Graza winner. He's got a ton of swagger which can go both ways. Monster leg. Hit ninety six point six percent field goals. But my guy, he's out of the U. Michigan's Jake Moody two times lou Graza finalists. He has one win, hit a fifty nine yard field goal in the most recent college football playoffs, the longest ever sixty four percent touchback raid on one hundred kickoffs. He was tremendous in the Shrine Bowl. I
think he is what they say. He could be a fourth rounder on Saturday. Jake Moody is my guy bold he is officially your guy. So that's it, all right, Let's take a break. You have any questions about the kicker.
I was a little surprise you went through like eight different guys, Moody. Look when you hit a fifty nine yarder in the college football semifinals, that's hands's material.
Yeah, yeah, you will see him on Sundays. Let's take a break and get to mister t Welcome back. Our next guest is Mike Tannebaumb aka the real Tannan bomb not verified, but nobody is anymore Ak the ESPN insider aka former front office POOBA in New York and Miami. And a man once said, it's been said of this man that no one handles billionaires in conversation better than Mike Tannanbombo. And now he's on with us. Decidedly not billionaires, but I still feel good about the combo. What's up, Mike.
It's something I've been called a lot. I never realized I had that Moniker as well.
You've never heard that before, no, not?
I mean that's look, you you work for some powerful people back in the day, But now you're doing the real fun stuff.
Draft prep.
There's nothing like it. People say what it's like. It's it's like an open book exam. You better know two to three sentences and quickly get to your notes.
Well, thanks Mike for joining us, and yeah, I guess we're going to go in a few different directions here. But I was curious, because of your experience in front offices, kind of start here, what is for you the most difficult position when it comes to player evaluation, Like, is there a position in where it comes to game tape in college where it's most likely to betray you at the next level, Like what position makes you more nervous in terms of studying in this process.
Yeah, look, the obvious would be quarterback for all the reasons that you would think, but I would say receiver. I'll give you somebody example, Kevin White. Kevin White was misevaluated by a lot of people coming out just giving his production. And then when you go back and do the autopsy and look at things like rowtree and sort of playbook, you know, that's when things become a little
bit more complex. So you really have to have a deep dive and understand, you know, what's expected of the players, what knowledge they need to have, how fast they can play, their experience. There's a lot of things that go into a level competition. And you know, he's just one of many receivers that didn't work out for could have been a number of reasons in Kevin's case in particular, but
he was some of that I liked a lot. He didn't work out drafted high, and sometimes when you go from varied offenses and some I think are the benefit doubt cuts against them too much. And the inverse is true too, where some receivers get pushed down because maybe they didn't have production because of the system they were in.
Yeah, and lately it's like you can't get a receiver pick wrong. They almost all we all seem to work out. And this seems like a class where there's going to be a lot taken in the second and third round especially.
I'm thinking about what you would be doing when you were running the Jets and when you were running the Dolphins at this time in the process, like a week before the draft, and what you think a team, specifically the Texans are doing with these reports that come out there to the point where it seems like it's intentional that they're getting out there that they might not be
taking quarterbacks, Like, what do you think that's about? And how are you laying the groundwork as a GM, as a decision maker over the next week kind of leading up to the draft.
Well, let me tell you guys a story because it's a cliche, but I lived it and probably lived the most dramatic moment in recent memory with the NFL Draft, which is you really need to be prepared for everything. And in the twenty sixteenth draft, the number one player on our board was Laramie Tunsel and for a lot of that draft go moving into that year, Tennessee had the first pick and everyone thought Tunsil would be the first pick. They need to tackle and let's move on.
We had a good not great left tackle at the time in Brandon Albert and Chris Greer ore GM at the time, who's still there to his credit. You know, we went through the process of making sure that we thoroughly researched Laramie and as we know, like he had a bump in the road, and on draft day, like in real time, it was an unbelievable drama. In the back of my mind, I'm thinking, you know, like Baltimore is going to need to tackle. They make a lot
of great decisions. I'm sure they're going to take him. And when they took Ronnie Stanley and not Laramie, I was like, gosh, Like I looked at Chris Greer, I looked at Adam Gay Steve Ross our owner one of my billionaire conversations, and said, hey, you know, we went
through this process. Matt Winston, who will be a GM one day, was an area scout, went into Ole miss in the fall when it was quiet, and lo and behold there he is at thirteen, and you know, six seven years later, he's still one of the best, if
not the best, left tackles football. So he answer your question, Greg, like you really have to say, like, hey, if we're picking it at in Houston's case too, and we trade back to seven, we better have seven players that we are rock solid on because something crazy is going to happen, and I don't know, is it Maybe Anthony Richardson going before CJ. Stroud Like that would not shock me. I would be surprised, but I wouldn't be shocked if that happens.
Guys, So you are in the world now.
When you were a general manager and everything was behind closed doors, you were in a secret world. Now you were having to put out mock drafts, and I know that the element of your most recent mock draft, the Hendon Hooker to Seattle, turned absolutely drop draws, and like people were just how can you do this?
How can you put them there? Like what I would? Dare you?
Frankly, Mike cow dare you?
I love how much? Because I've listened to some of yourself. How strong will you come out in favor of him? And that he's a little bit lost in the mix because of the knee injury, his age. You know, why would Seattle do this? Why does it make sense? Explain to me why you made this pick?
Yeah, making sure that you're telling about my feedback on my mock draft, because there was nothing negative that I saw on Twitter.
Well, no, I guess it's just a few things. You know, when you when you lose that blue check markets, it gets tough.
I paid for my blue check mark.
Is that the kep he just assumes kept it breaking news?
My team coughed up the eight bucks or ESPN did or someone I.
Don't know no ESPN did it, And I will say this, I am not a billionaire and I spent eight dollars, so both those things would be true. But you know, for me, guys like you know you talk about like, I will say like, I've seen receivers struggle sometimes again with the transition, and obviously quarterbacks, there's a lot to be said, and I've learned a lot, both highs and lows. But when you fundamentally look at the biggest challenge, in
my opinion, with quarterbacks, it's experience. And there's nothing like game experience for quarterbacks. Endon Hooker I started thirty seven games and if he was healthy, guys, he may be the first picking the draft. He has prototypical size, he has a great arm, and I'm telling you he has rare character. I saw it with my own eyes with two different situations. One was the Orange Bowl. I'm on the sidelines. I'm supposed to be scouting, you know, Tennessee.
In pregame, I am just kissing Peyton Manning's ass, trying and get on the Manning cast. So I'm not and I'm watching Hendon Hooker, who's not playing. He's in the huddle with his teammates as passionate as he can be in a very meaningful way. Fast forward three weeks later, I'm covering the practices for the Senior Bowl. I'm on the field, guys, and here's Hendon Hooker, who cannot play in the game, in the huddle in a practice on a Wednesday afternoon, amobile and I sit to him, like,
what in the world are you doing? Hendon? He's like, Hey, I'm just trying to help my teammates get better. And somebody's like that vested, Like nobody would have blinked if he just left Tennessee went out to California with one of those QB gurus, nobody would have held it against him. But here's a guy that was vested at Tennessee despite transferring. Here's a guy that was at the Senior Bowl at every rep like, that's who I want to be my
battlefield commander. And then when you throw on the fact that he led the nation in yours per pass attempt and I pushed back on the notion of Tennessee's offense and how you know, four wide and how quick they were. I understand there's gonna be some challenges in the transition, but if he goes to Seattle at let's say five.
They did a wonderful job of extending Gino Smith. There are some outs on the contract, and I just think the old action guys of win for today and develop tomorrow pits really perfectly between Geno Smith and Hendon Hooker.
I mean, you've got him as your top quarterback overall, so it's not just you think he would fit well in Seattle. You think he's going to be the best player at the position in five years. You have Bryce young Necks and richardson third, then Stroud and love Us. That is bod, that's your guy, Mike. Hendon Hooker's career and your career is now. It's together. Everyone's going to think of you. When they think of Hendon Hooker, you have to get a tattoo on your bic.
How do you know.
I don't have them prove it.
But look, you know you have to look at talent and character, and I think he has both. I don't see any holes in his game. I do wish sometimes offensively they stress him more, which they just don't. But he's an underrated athlete. The age doesn't bother me. The experience is a factor in a positive way, and I just think when it's all said and done over the next five years. While I love Bryce Young and his foot quickness and well how quickly he plays guys like,
the statistics are against Bryce Young. Like if we were running an insurance company and we had a bet based on data, the data is against Bryce Young. I think he'll be an exception. But that's why I would give the benefit of doubt to Hendon Hooker over brys Young.
It's not always the buzziest pick for the especially fan bases that wait all you know for months ahead of the draft, and then Thursday night comes and then you grab that offensive lineman in the draft. But at the same time, people who knows these winners are built in the trench is Peter Skoronsky at a Northwestern who's a big time player. The belief amongst some people is that he could be a Canton level player if everything clicked.
Are you that high on him? Do you see him head and shoulders above the rest of the linemen that are expected to go high in this draft?
Yeah?
I like him a lot. I don't know if he's quitting Nelson, but I think he's rock solid and if I'm the Bears. I think he's a force multiplier. I plug him in. I started at guard. Ironically, going back to Tunsel, you know, we put Laramie at left guard for a year, and candidly that was an ideal, Like he was a little uncomfortable at first, but he slid out to left tackle a year later in the rest of history, and I think, you know, they could certainly do the same thing in Chicago. I think he has
a really really high floor. You know, there's a lot about his arm length, but he's very functional, he's very strong, he's tough, so to me, I don't think there's a lot of downside. And when you're the Bears, like, let's see justin fields with a really good offensive line this and I think there's no better example today than the
Eagles book. Jalen Hurts has great talent, great character. He's a markedly marked improved player, but I think part of that is the offensive line that he's playing behind.
All Right, So when your career began way back when it was Bill Belichick, who I believe he read a book that you tried to publish about football scouting, etc. And decided to hire you. Way back when so you understand Bill bell.
A on Wait, why did he read it if it wasn't published. Well, it was so many questions.
You could explain that you got copies to people. Did not Bill Belichick read something that you wrote?
Is that correct?
That is correct? So I actually put out it was sixty books that I sent to every head coach in GM. Yeah, Greg Rosenthal University's law school. I was at Tulane. I was an unpaid intern for the Saints, and I was very lucky, guys. The first year and a half that I was in the NFL, I was an unpaid intern. The salary cap came in. I just took notes and sort of had observations about how to build a team
in the salary cap era. I got fifty nine rejection letters, and Mike Lombardi and Bill Belichick hired me in Cleveland for the ninety five season, and I still have all the other rejection letters. I still have, like my original binder.
As embarrassing as some of my thoughts were, I think what Coach Belichick though, was what's interesting wasn't the fact that he hired me, was the fact that he hired somebody that he thought should give them a competitive advantage, knowing that the salary cap was going to be an important part of team building.
And I love that. I love that backstory. And you were there just a couple of years after Bill Belichick parted ways with Bernie Kozar, which set the city on fire. I mean, you go to New England right now and it just feels like the energy between Bill Belichick and Mac Jones has been off for a year plus. We all know what happened last offseason. Today as we talk to you, Well Levis is in there visiting. There just seems to be interest potentially that New England would look
for a different solution to quarterback. Do you think that they're knowing what you do about Belichick? Is there a possibility that there's levers being pulled year in a month from now. Matt Jones is just somewhere else.
Yes, And I would not do that if I was them, but Coach Belichick would absolutely. He is beholden to one thing in his mind, the absolute truth. The standards are the standards, and the best players will play. I think Mac Jones is a good NFL quarterback. Look, we could argue if he's top ten or sixteen, but he's a good player. He took his team to the playoffs in year one, which is hard to do. And look, I don't think there's a super high ceiling, but I don't
think this team is as far away. They have a great defense. Their offensive line, in my opinion, isn't what it once was on the Dante Scarnikia. But if they can get maybe another weapon or two people that can run. I don't think Smith Schuster changes what they are on offense. I still think they're pedestrian. If they can fix that the offensive line and hopefully another weapon, I think they could be right in the mix as one of the seven best teams in the AFC.
Man, how would they even do that? That's a tricky one because if if you can't get them traded and then he's your presumptive starting quarterback, you have to manage that. I'm thinking back when the Jets once went after Peyton Manning and then Mark Sanchez was still there, Like it's a lot. What do you think, Mac Jones, I've been surprised even thinking about this, But what do you think he would cost?
Like?
What would you give up if you were a team that needed a quarterback right now? Would what do you think mac Jones could could get for you.
Probably a second or a third round pick. You know, he's a solid quarterback. And again, like context is everything here, guys, if you don't have a quarterback, mac Jones looks really good. Now. I think what he falls behind is I don't see the athleticism that all the other quarterbacks that are playing at a high level in the AFC. Like, let's put two aside because the injuries. But when you talk about Josh Allen presumptively, Aaron Rodgers, Burrow, Mahomes Herbert, it's just,
you know, Lamar, it's just one after the other. These guys are young, they're athletic, and they can really stress the defense because not what they could just do with their arm, but with their feet. And that's what's missing in mac Jones's game. Now, with that said, I think they go twelve personnel with Hunter, Henry and Giseki and that could make a big difference. And ramondre Stevenson, to me,
is isn't a really effective runner. So what they're missing is maybe one more player that's fast, one more really solid offensive lineman, and then I could I think they could win a whole bunch of games. But I don't
think this is helping Mac Jones, you know. I think what's hard for them is this guy's There was a lot of things that were really special about Tom Brady, that's obvious, but part of it is like rare mental toughness and resilience in the formulative years of his career, and Mac Jones may not just have those like superpowers, And somebody in his ecosystem is saying like, hey, did
you see this rumor? In that rumor and you know, we all say the same thing in this industry, like oh, we don't read anything, and it doesn't bother Like, you know, that's bullshit, Like everyone reads everything, and I'm sure it does impact them. So but knowing Bill b I don't think that would That's not going to stop him from doing what he thinks right for his team.
I want to go above the tree tops again here, Mike, because somebody has, you know, such experience running front offices. How do let's call them external factors affect your decision making? Potentially, if you're a GM who knows you're in a position where it's kind of a playoff or bust year, does
that make you potentially more aggressive? To take a big swing, or would that maybe put you in a position to go a little more meat and potatoes and be a little more conservative, Like you've been on both sides of it, Like does it change as it's human nature, does it change how you approach a draft, your personal job security within an organization?
Yeah, Look, it's a totally fair question. Look I was able to do for a long time over twenty years, and what really served me well was like, what's always best for the organization and if we sort of use that as a grounded ten pole as we make decisions, like, that's going to lead to more right decisions than wrong. And you hope that you know, your boss beats Steve rosswe Johnson, who else isn't going to make a decision. I'll come determinative on any one pick and that typically
will lead you to the right decisions. And candidly, like, it's other people you're worried about more so than yourself. There's a lot of people whose you know, families and kids and jobs like depend on the performance of the organization, and I always worried more about them than myself and always thought like, if we just bring really good players that are high character that love football. We'll get more decisions right than wrong, and usually that took care of itself.
Fair You drafted Durell Reeves once. Do you have a cornerback in this draft that you like the most?
Devin Withers Well, it's funny. There's one in one a here like Witherspoon is a lot like Antoine Winfield senior. And I hate saying that because it makes me feel so old, but Antoine Winfield was one of my favorite players, like the late great John Butler. When they drafted Antoine Winfield at the Bills, I saw him at a game. I'm like, man, that was a great pick. He's like, well, we only drafted him to cover Corbette. I was like, oh, man,
that hurts. And when you look at Witherspoon, he's from the Panhandle, wasn't highly recruited, has a massive chip on his shoulder, and he's playing linebacker in a corner body like. He loves to tackle, he loves to run support. Christian Gonzales was, you know, a Colorado transfer to Oregon, and he has more of an elegance about him and he's a great, great athlete with great hips. Isn't the physical player that Witherspoon is, but I think they'll both play
for a long time. But like a guy like Witherspoon to me, like, I don't think he'll make it this hard, but like I think he is a Pittsburgh Steeler because I think he's tougher than tough and I just see him like thriving with a guy like Mike Tomlin.
I wonder where you come in on the running back thing, because I think about the two thousand and nine Jets and how you guys just went as far as you did by hammering people in cold weather, completely destroying their will. And there's someone like Bijon Robbinson sitting out there and it's like, oh, it's a running back and you might only get four or five great years out of this great player. Well, that sounds like a pretty good first
round pick relatively speaking to begin with. But how high, Like, depending where you were, how high would you say this is our guy and I'll defend it till the end?
How high in the first round?
Yeah, you know what's really interesting. I had a chance to sit down with Tom A. Herman a couple of weeks ago. He he's now the head coach at Fau in Boca Ratone and told me a really interesting story. He said, you know, as a play caller, if we thought that there was an AutoMac check at Texas where if he was in the slot and they thought was bantamn, like that's where they were going, there was nobody that
could cover him one on one. And I think what's like a little unfair for Bijon is like you almost hate this, say, guys, but like there's almost a stigma of like, oh, you play running back, and if you take like the position off of him and think of him as an offensive weapon, he's one of the clearly ten to twelve best football players in this draft. So to me, if you have like a plan for him, especially out of the backfield, a little bit like a McCaffrey,
a Kamaratite, I think he's a top five player. And there's a couple of teams like Buffalo and Dallas in particular, two teams like I'm really curious, like do they maybe try a trade up for him, because I think those are two teams that would really benefit with his skills not just running the ball, guys, Like again, like you see it on tape, but boy like talking to Tom Herman, guys like it's amazing, like confidence they had him as a route runner and his hands and his ability to adjust to the ball.
Mike, thank you so much for joining us. Before we let you go, I'd want to ask you something non draft related. The old heads, No, the ogs that have been following the Hard Knocks franchise for years know that it's very difficult to top the twenty ten Jets hard Knock season. Shout out Roscoe Diner, shout out might T trying to catch as many punts as he could in
his arms. Where you come down on these teams being so openly out on hard Knocks, I'll point out Bears CEO George McCaskey, who kind of went out of his way to say, don't pick us. Did you find it to be some thing that was a legitimate distraction or is this just these teams are getting there? Tidy Whitey's in a bunch for no reason.
I'd say, both, guys. So let me tell you a story. We were like a finalist for the nine year and I was like no, no, no, no, no, we're not doing this, and everybody else wanted to do it except for me. And then after like to think about for quite a while, guys, Ozzie knew some who have a ton of respect for a long time GM of the Ravens and great player. He made a really interesting comment.
He talked about how they got better practices because when players know that the cameras are on them, actually get better efforts. And that really like changed my opinion of it. And then NFL films, you know, the institution, guys, is just a really really special Like when they talk about like confidentiality and you know things won't get out that are going to embarrass you, they really mean it. So
it was tremendous for our franchise. We obviously had a great year, went to the championship game despite me losing hair, gaining weight, dropping punts, not saying our best player. You know, beyond that, it was really.
Good, very good. You did get it done. That in fact, the greatest ending to any Hard Knocks season. And as a Jets fan, this this might seem biased, but it's Darrell Reeves coming on to the practice field with the teammates mobbing him after that saga that played out, and Mike t got it done and he continues to get it done, just in a different capacity. Thank you, mister t Thanks Mike.
Thank you, thanks so much. Guys really appreciate it.
All right there he goes, yeah, George McCaskey. The quote was, there are a number of teams that have compelling stories to tell on hard knocks, And then a reporter asks that are not the Bears and he said, thirty one others. I don't know what it is. I don't get it. He needs more juice than the Bears come at.
Least half the teams around the league could use. I typically look at like I think things can go south because I can think of like the Hugh Jackson scenario where him in a room or bossing his other assistance around look bad and it's stuck with him.
But in general, like how most of what comes.
Out about these teams is positive stories and getting to know people better, and like you, you can't hide stuff now anyways, why not like go and have NFL films do the best job to can with it.
Right, It's almost seems like like a lack of confidence, like, yeah, we're so afraid that like they're going to expose that we're actually just there's nothing behind the curtain. How about be like the lions, and you're proud of who you are, and America falls in love with you.
And I love that Ozzie theory. That's I think he one hundred cameras watching, and you could be the focus of a segment. You're probably gonna bust your ass just that much harder, just how humans work a little bit, I think, I mean.
And to Mike's point about them relatively from them taking care of you ultimately, m I mean, they were just following the Cardinals every week during.
Oh they protected the card one of the.
Most disastrous seasons anyone's haden will I wish we had made it through an episode without bagging on the Cardinals. I'm sorry, But all I mean is like, actually I watched most of those and I did see some positive things out of the Cardinals that were genuine, and I thought higher of some of the people in that building because of that. And yeah, there was other stuff on that side.
Are we visiting the Cardinals?
I'm advance, Joseph uh oh not again, gosh, tough sitch not good for birds.
Not good, not good? All right, So another week in the books for around the NFL. Next time you hear from us, it will be Draft Week. What do we got coming up? We got a show on Monday. We haven't figured that one out yet, but we will. Wednesday we got figured out. It's the Mark Sessler Mock Draft, eagerly awaited. And also I guess, well, are we going to roll out the graver mock competition as well? I don't know. We'll have to figure that. We'll figure that out.
Could have dueling days, but I would I would invite him to come. I'm not unlike the mccaskey's and the Bears. I invite the competition in the camaraderie.
Very good. I love that outlook on things. Thursday, we got you a double header of goodness. We have the first ever live stream of Round one of the draft, and immediately following that, we'll come to this studio right here and record the Round one recap. And then after you know, we reset on Friday tracking the draft as we do. Saturday night, we recap the rest of the draft and any other big thoughts on the league that is the NFL.
I think you've said it, little winners and losers usually on that set.
You usually do that. We hit those winners and losers, all right? Anything else?
I like your new shirt.
You know there's a golf shirt. Took this golf in it Vegas with the buddies.
Fancy.
It's like Aqua Military. Nice. Check us out on Aqua Camel. He the call